#robotics Logs

Aug 07 2014

00:16 Hyratel1 aha, "Tab utilities" has it as a secondary function
00:21 rue_house hmm
00:22 rue_house tabmixplus?
00:28 Hyratel1 no
00:29 Hyratel1 Tab Utilities
00:29 Hyratel1 s' the one i use
00:29 Hyratel1 current ver is 1.5.28.1
08:58 robotust1a morning
09:02 Hyratel1 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152582284683518
09:05 robotust1a Hyratel1: not bad
09:06 robotust1a too fragile
09:09 rue_mohr2 I wonder how many cycles before something shatters
09:10 robotust1a it's like plate, one can use all life - another shatter in a month
09:11 rue_mohr2 I have to thik that there are small impacts going on there that will eventually cause something to crack
09:13 Hyratel1 threre's no impacts in a steam engine
09:13 Hyratel1 everything is smoothly transitioned
09:13 Hyratel1 and the flywheel is balanced
09:14 rue_mohr2 I hear clicking tho, which means some kinda minor impact somewhere
09:14 rue_mohr2 its awesome, dont get me wrong
09:14 Hyratel1 probably the pittman arm for the flywheel
09:15 Hyratel1 it's a demonstration peice, I don't imagine it gets run much
09:44 robotust1a MrCurious: where is this man
09:44 robotust1a MrCurious: morning
09:44 robotust1a how is the progress?
09:45 robotust1a yesterday I used J-B weld, quite good stuff
12:50 JEntrep Is there a 3D Printing channel?
12:51 robotust1a #reprap
12:52 robotust1a for example
12:52 JEntrep thanks :)
12:52 JEntrep would anyone in here have any ideas on shoe fabrication automation
12:52 JEntrep possibly using 3D printers to create molds
12:52 JEntrep "molds"
12:52 JEntrep That could then allow shoes to be automatically fabricated with other materials
12:53 JEntrep ?
12:53 robotust1a JEntrep: I think it's already quite automated
12:53 JEntrep Just looking for people have a good idea of automation using Mills, Lathes, 3D printers, etc.
12:53 JEntrep I imagine it is ...
12:53 JEntrep But I don't think 3D printers are used in the automation?
12:53 JEntrep possibly in prototyping?
12:54 JEntrep I think they have some pretty custom built machines (not who the vendors usually are)
12:54 JEntrep Any ideas from people who know modern machinery/robotics would be helpful :)
12:54 JEntrep I'm coming from this only knowing a bit about converting 3D models to G-Code
12:55 JEntrep everything else I am completely ignorant of
12:55 JEntrep Any books on basic automation?
12:56 robotust1a to print fullscale mold for shoe - it can take 3-8 houts
12:56 robotust1a hours
12:57 robotust1a and all feet are different
12:57 robotust1a it's better to use 3d printed mold for custom shoe making
13:02 JEntrep right, how long will a 3D-Printed mold take to print?
13:02 JEntrep on a standard industrial 3D printer?
13:02 JEntrep oh and thanks for the info robotust1a :)
13:04 robotust1a it depent on infill
13:14 JEntrep robotust1a, any recommendations on infills?
13:15 robotust1a I mean the extent, 20 % is ok
13:15 robotust1a the model will hard enouph
13:18 JEntrep ah ok, thanks! :)
13:18 JEntrep any other recommendations on 3D printing and fabrication automation? :)
13:22 robotust1a are you collecting ideas for your business?
13:22 robotust1a prototyping
13:23 robotust1a injection molding creation
13:35 JEntrep robotust1a, basically :)
13:35 JEntrep I am trying to learn about fabrication automation techniques (especially using 3D-Printers)
13:35 JEntrep and meet/talk to people who know stuff about that
13:35 JEntrep I am actually just a Developer :)
13:35 robotust1a what for?
13:36 JEntrep Server Programming
13:36 JEntrep mostly in Go
13:37 JEntrep oh, you mean what am I trying to learn stuff for?
13:37 JEntrep lol, an idea that I have. Trying to see if it is viable.
13:41 robotust1a so what is you adea
13:41 robotust1a ?
13:41 robotust1a I play Go with my kids
13:42 robotust1a idea*
13:44 JEntrep not Go the game, Go the programming language :P
13:44 JEntrep http://golang.org/
13:47 robotust1a I know, I'm just kidding
13:47 JEntrep :(
13:47 JEntrep Right now I am just looking to see how hard it is to automate custom object design
13:48 JEntrep at a small-scale
13:48 JEntrep *how diffucult and expensive it is
13:48 JEntrep *difficult
13:48 robotust1a it's quite expensive
13:48 JEntrep yeah :/
13:48 JEntrep Do you know how to estimate the costs?
13:52 JEntrep oh robotust1a the idea is nothing fancy, just a custom shoe shop.
13:53 JEntrep robotust1a, I want to be able to design custom shoes and then "send" them to the "fabrication room"
13:53 JEntrep and for them to be ready over night
13:53 JEntrep (that's essentially the idea)
13:54 robotust1a JEntrep: filament + electicity + printing time
13:54 JEntrep I imagine that level of automation takes multiple machines, sensors, and a control system :/
13:54 robotust1a which is quite big
13:54 JEntrep is it more expensive to reduce printing time?
13:54 JEntrep oh, and by "be ready"
13:54 JEntrep I don't just mean the mold
13:54 Loshki JEntrep: Attempts to do this with clothing e.g. jeans hasn't done well in the past...
13:54 JEntrep I mean the whole shoe.
13:55 JEntrep Jeans seems to be drastically different from Shoes.
13:55 JEntrep In fact all clothing would be.
13:55 robotust1a I knew one shoe maker but he already died, Ican't ask him anymore
13:56 JEntrep :(
13:56 robotust1a there is no good shoes in canada
13:56 robotust1a they have very strange idea of what ppl would like
13:56 JEntrep :/
13:57 robotust1a and most probably it would be nice to have good shoe store
13:57 robotust1a it could be popular
13:57 robotust1a but it's just my opinion
13:57 robotust1a marketing investigation should be done
13:58 JEntrep hehe :p
13:58 JEntrep I'll keep it in mind
13:58 robotust1a GEOX was started as a custom sports shoes
13:58 robotust1a now it's well known brand
13:59 robotust1a You could start to make shoes as hobby
13:59 robotust1a and make shoes for all your friends
13:59 robotust1a they will tell others
14:00 robotust1a and bingo... profit
14:00 robotust1a it would be more expensive but... custom
14:00 Loshki JEntrep: shoes are difficult. Shocking amounts of weight, pressure etc. There was at least one reality show where the contestants create shoes...
14:01 JEntrep robotust1a, yeah that's the idea :D
14:01 robotust1a yeah, and you should know materials as well
14:01 JEntrep Loshki, do you remember which one?
14:01 JEntrep robotust1a, I am learning about materials as well (trying to)
14:02 JEntrep Loshki, also, what do you mean by "shocking amounts of weight and pressure"?
14:02 robotust1a leather is quite universal material, but what about others like rubber, glue, etc
14:02 JEntrep I will probably be limited at first to certain materials
14:03 JEntrep as it grows I can expand the fabrication process to allow different materials to be used :)
14:03 JEntrep just trying to keep it simple
14:04 JEntrep Oh! Which 3D-Printer Filaments are reusable?
14:04 JEntrep And what methods are there to make them reusable?
14:04 JEntrep would a mold have to be melted down and restrung?
14:05 robotust1a you can produce your own filament for about 5$ per kg
14:05 robotust1a if you have own extruder
14:06 robotust1a and you can reuse it by grinding back, but you have to add new plastic to restore properties
14:06 Loshki JEntrep: sorry, don't seem to be able to find it. If I do, I'll drop you a note here. "shocking amounts of weight and pressure" refers to e.g. a stiletto heel, where 120lbs is concentrated on an area the size of two thumbtacks.
14:06 robotust1a of plastic
14:06 robotust1a JEntrep: any filament is reusable, but it's quite cheap to do this
14:06 JEntrep robotust1a, awesome! thanks for the info :D
14:07 JEntrep Loshki, oh :P
14:07 JEntrep Loshki, yeah, if you find anything feel free to send it my way :)
14:09 Loshki JEntrep: well, it's definitely do-able, but it isn't as easy as e.g. throwing a dress together, which they do routinely...
14:10 JEntrep Loshki, are you familiar with similiar fabrication processes?
14:18 robotust1a ppl usually walk
14:18 robotust1a so shoes are needed
14:18 robotust1a at least 1-2 pais per year during the whole life
14:18 robotust1a pairs
14:19 deshipu you buy good shoes, they last 5 years
14:19 MrCurious once my printer works, i think a filament recycler will be in order
14:20 deshipu MrCurious: or a mill for the granules
14:20 MrCurious thats what i think. crusher, melt, extrude filament to a winder
14:21 MrCurious or to be even more slick... combine 3d printer with all that to have a put in plastic crap, get new plastic crap device
14:24 robotust1a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A29cDw57qWQ
14:24 robotust1a footage
14:24 deshipu I like the idea of a device that does one thing well
14:24 deshipu robotust1a: russian pop? :)
14:25 robotust1a yeah, Zemfira
14:25 robotust1a but I'd never saw this clip before
14:26 OracleCarbon I did not think my video feed through at all...
14:27 OracleCarbon Skype calls work best when both ends are connected to the internet.
14:28 robotust1a universal devices usually fragile and less relyable than devices which does 1 function
14:29 deshipu robotust1a: plus you get to do stuff in between the steps
14:38 OracleCarbon Is there a decent way to get video and 2-way audio between my phone and laptop over wifi without internet access?
14:44 deshipu you can create a wifi on your laptop
14:45 deshipu and use any voip software
14:46 OracleCarbon Any recommendations?
14:47 OracleCarbon I'm trying to use my phone to get FPV from my robot. The better on battery usage, the better, since it increases my endurance.
14:53 deshipu never used any on the phone, also, what phone? android?
14:56 robotust1a what is the bandwidth of your wifi?
15:14 OracleCarbon deshipu: Android, yeah
15:15 OracleCarbon robotust1a: Uhh...I think everything has 802.11n support
15:22 deshipu I wanted to ask a friend who;s an android programmer, but he's not there :(
15:23 deshipu on the computer side you could use ekiga, I suppose
15:25 OracleCarbon My mission window to field this system is rapidly closing on me. The project goes from "awesome and useful" to "kind of a neat toy" if I can't get it in service fast enough.
15:27 deshipu I want to do the simplest thing that could possibly work: an ssh session with an X tunnel and Cheese started in that
15:27 deshipu no idea how that will work though
15:28 OracleCarbon I'm using the phone to identify a target and fire a water gun at him, so it needs to have a reasonable frame rate and image quality coming through
15:28 OracleCarbon If I hit the wrong person, it's a Very Bad Thing.
15:29 deshipu if it was one-way audio, you could just run video streaming on the robot
15:30 OracleCarbon The audio is negotiable, I guess. But the 2-way audio makes it better.
15:30 OracleCarbon Because then I can talk to the target after the shot.
15:30 deshipu a telepresence bot would be nice
15:30 deshipu you could google what people use for that
15:31 OracleCarbon I feel like most of that's going to be something like a Skype call.
15:32 OracleCarbon I wonder how far I could viably use my phone as a hotspot and just do a Skype call.
15:32 deshipu ugh, sending it all over to Microsoft and back?
15:32 OracleCarbon That would be simplest, if I can make it work.
15:33 deshipu skype is not p2p anymore
15:33 deshipu they centralized the servers
15:33 OracleCarbon Oh, really?
15:33 OracleCarbon That's less good.
15:33 deshipu just google for a voip app
15:34 OracleCarbon I bet there's some wifi security camera apps for smartphones
15:34 deshipu certainly
15:35 OracleCarbon That probably gets me most of the way there.
15:35 OracleCarbon If I get him with the water, I can just walk out to handle the rest.
15:37 OracleCarbon Aha. Now we're talking. There's a wifi camera app for Android, I've got a strong wifi router. Just set it up in my car down the street and have at the guy.
15:39 deshipu is it legal?
15:39 OracleCarbon Is what legal?
15:42 deshipu I don't know, what you describe sounds like an assalut
15:48 OracleCarbon deshipu: He's my target for a game of Assassins.
15:49 OracleCarbon I'm not so much a fan of the whole "playing in the intended manner" thing, so I'm seeing if I can get a rule made banning my attack methods.
15:54 deshipu is dying of old age an acceptable assasination method?
16:09 deshipu so, guys, any thoughts about http://letsmakerobots.com/content/single-motor-robot-challenge ?
16:15 Hyratel1 deshipu, dual independent reversible gearboxes
16:16 Skwint so long as you can switch gears using 0 motors :p
16:17 Hyratel1 solenoids
16:17 Hyratel1 do thoes count?
16:17 Hyratel1 or alternately
16:18 Hyratel1 a gearbox that can drive one of two outputs based on a mechanical selectorr
16:18 Hyratel1 i could do it in lego if I could FIND any of my lego crap
16:18 deshipu two gearboxes with freewheel mechanisms
16:18 Hyratel1 yep
16:18 deshipu but then you always move like a snake
16:19 Hyratel1 so?
16:19 Skwint I can think of very few ways to make a single motor change the speed at which it drives 2 wheels which doesn't require some sort of moving object to make it work
16:19 Hyratel1 it fulfills the requirements
16:19 deshipu I'm thinking about a biped
16:19 deshipu with a single servo
16:19 deshipu raising the two legs
16:19 Skwint add brakes? needs a solonoid. Steer? needs a servo.
16:19 Hyratel1 hmm
16:19 Hyratel1 aha
16:19 deshipu and with something like a hysteresis loop
16:19 deshipu on the legs
16:20 Hyratel1 you could use centripital systems
16:20 deshipu so that they tilt forward when they raise, and go backwards once they touch the ground
16:20 Hyratel1 oh, mechanical asymmetry?
16:20 Hyratel1 a ratchet system?
16:20 deshipu yeah, a ratchet
16:21 deshipu then you can turn by only moving the legs partway
16:21 Skwint nope - I give up - I don't understand how you can do it at all :(
16:21 Hyratel1 Skwint, it just takes cleverness
16:21 Skwint I can't think of any solution that doesn't use something that would be cheating
16:21 deshipu Skwint: the simplest one is a crawler with a single servo, pushing with rods attached to it
16:21 Hyratel1 RPM-based clutching system to bring in/out each side
16:21 Skwint well, I like to think I'm not THAT stupid :/
16:22 Skwint didn't understand the crawler. Understand RPM based idea but don't know how to implement that.
16:22 deshipu some kind of clutches or ratchets generally seem necessary
16:23 Skwint I'm fine with those, but I don't see how to turn them on or off without another motor
16:23 deshipu there are some links on the second page of comments on that page
16:23 deshipu Skwint: you turn them on or off depending on the direction of your motor
16:23 Hyratel1 Skwint, spin in excess of N RPM and it'll reverse the relevant side
16:23 deshipu http://letsmakerobots.com/robot/project/g-ucrawler <-- I think this is the simplest thing, but the implementation could be greatly improved
16:24 deshipu oh, have one of the wheels speed-limited
16:24 deshipu so when you go over a certain speed, it starts turning
16:26 deshipu I wonder if a bristlebot could be weighted so that it turns one or the other way depending on the diection of the vibro
16:26 Skwint there used to be a remote controlled car you could get that only had forwards and backwards, but while in reverse one wheel locked up so it turned
16:26 Skwint OK, I am happy now, I accept that there are answers :p
16:27 deshipu someone wanted to make a swimming bot
16:27 deshipu you would probably have a fin on a servo
16:28 deshipu do full sweeps to move forward, half sweeps to turn
16:28 Hyratel1 deshipu, I can see that
16:29 Hyratel1 wag +- to go forward, wag +0 to turn right etc, because it'll act like audder
16:29 Hyratel1 rudder
16:29 deshipu yeah
16:30 deshipu a skateboarding robot could do something similar
16:30 deshipu just changing the center of gravity
16:30 Hyratel1 oh, by throwing a weight around
16:30 Hyratel1 but it has to be self propelled
16:31 deshipu skateboarders are self-propelled?
16:31 deshipu except they like to start by pushing off something, because it's easier when you are already moving
16:32 Hyratel1 bristlebot with two feet maybe
16:32 Hyratel1 and direction of rotation triggers one foot to move
16:32 deshipu bristlebot with the vibro losely mounted and moving to one side or the other depending on the direction
16:33 Hyratel1 oh, so the vibro's own action would change the motor's location?
16:33 deshipu yup
16:33 Hyratel1 interesting
16:33 deshipu they axle could be lying on some u-shaped thing
16:34 deshipu shame it's for finding stuff, not running away from stuff, because you could have a sail for running away from a fan ;)
16:34 deshipu 0 motors
16:35 deshipu I know that they used mold for pathfinding in some experiments, but no sure if that qualifies as a robot ;)
16:36 Skwint ah, but can a robot qualify as a mold?
16:36 deshipu bioengineering
20:16 rue_mohr2 http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slua143/slua143.pdf