#robotics Logs
Jul 16 2014
#robotics Calendar
00:03 Hyratel MrCurious, no
00:03 Hyratel it represents a single glyph
00:04 MrCurious a glyph as in a composite image composed of a collection of parts when together form a coherent single meaning....
00:04 MrCurious while we are on the topic of language... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc
00:06 MrCurious well ld hays modems required a sentence consisting of +++ to enter command mode. suppose that could be expanded to 7 words to form a suitable escape sequence such as "Bananana Bananana Bananana Bananana Bananana Bananana Bananana!!!!"
00:11 MrCurious Fluggaenkoecchicebolsen!!!!!!
00:11 MrCurious http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fluggaenkoecchicebolsen
00:12 MrCurious i am sorry, please place me on your ignore lists now, i have rendered the conversation untennable
00:13 SlaveToTheSauce https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/489150502303580161
00:14 MrCurious with all these poor children crossing the border into america and being promptly deported, i wonder if anyone in their arrogance has stopped to ask them if by chance they are actually on their way to canada... why are we assuming we are their final destination. canada welcomes immigrants
00:15 MrCurious SlaveToTheSauce: how long will the world tolerate such one sided fights...
00:16 MrCurious its like brazil - germany, only 2 orders of magnitude worse...
00:16 SlaveToTheSauce http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/01/20/canada-wont-help-resettle-palestinian-refugees-displaced-by-controversial-israeli-settlements-immigration-minister/
00:16 rue_mohr2 are canadian children running the border again?
00:17 orlock rue_mohr2: you are over the east side on an island, right?
00:17 MrCurious no... south american kids are making a run for canada, but america is sending them home
00:17 rue_mohr2 sell I dont blame them, that south america thing sucks
00:17 SlaveToTheSauce orlock: no that's me
00:18 orlock rue is west coast?
00:18 SlaveToTheSauce ya
00:21 rue_mohr2 prettymuch as far west as you can go
00:21 rue_mohr2 any wester is island
00:22 orlock Ahh, i thought you were on an island
00:22 rue_mohr2 no but its ferry access only
00:24 rue_mohr2 I cant find a pneumatically controlled water valve on ebay
00:24 rue_mohr2 translation: I'm doing it wrong
00:25 SlaveToTheSauce more like time to spin up the lathe
00:25 rue_mohr2 I know they exist
01:40 fghfghjfg Does anybody know the difference between residential and commercial equipment in terms of building things. Is the equipment the same or just bigger versions of the same equipment or different all together
01:40 orlock Ask somebody else to do your homework
01:44 fghfghjfg I know industrial is a whole another ball game since I have seen the equipment for those. I have seen the equipment for residential and some of the residencial overlaps the commerical but I guess skyscrapers , and other equpiment would fall under commerical exclusively. I am looking for the commerical equipment that you cann't find locally at a taylor rental or other local construction equipment supply
01:44 Hyratel fghfghjfg, why don't you
01:45 Hyratel GO FUCKING LOOK THIS SHIT UP FOR YOURSELF
01:45 Hyratel !ops
01:45 Hyratel !ops fghfghjfg
01:45 fghfghjfg Other then the construction vehicles + the residential equipment/power tools what would I be missing for the commerical construction.
01:46 orlock a row of stinky portaloos
01:48 GargantuaSauce enough toothpicks and hotglue to form the building's structure
01:54 fghfghjfg I am curious what the mechanical contractor trucks/mini vans that I pass by ... I am wondering what an mechanical contractor services are I know the electrical contractors or the plumber / hvac services are but is the mechanical contractors just selling like fasteners or something , or are the grinding camshafts or something else... I just curious what services they offer
01:54 fghfghjfg the = they
01:55 orlock Dude.
01:55 orlock Find a phone book
01:56 orlock Call them.
01:56 orlock All of human knowledge is available at the touch of some buttons.. Why the fuck are you asking us about your school work?
02:04 fghfghjfg not all
02:05 fghfghjfg but I found for the most part what the mechanical services are they fall into some of the hvac , plumbing , sewer / septic ,...etc services as well as others more for commerical though
02:11 MrCurious orlock +1
02:12 MrCurious don't give a man a result, and assist him for a day, give a man the understanding of the google, and assist him for a lifetime
02:23 fghfghjfg Ok last question for tonight I see on a house 2 gas regulators why would one need 2 regulators on a 1200 ish sq ft house
02:24 fghfghjfg why not just one ... this is a propane house
02:24 GargantuaSauce maybe it's a duplex??
02:25 fghfghjfg no its for one family
02:25 fghfghjfg each floor is 600 sq ft ish
02:25 fghfghjfg 2 floors
02:28 fghfghjfg even with my apartment I am finding only one gas regulator per building and it is much bigger 3 stories ,...etc
02:30 rue_house give a man fire and you keep him warm for a day, set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life
02:30 fghfghjfg true but it would also be a very short life
02:33 MrCurious rue_house +1
02:39 fghfghjfg O wait it may have been 2 seperate tanks I will have to check the gas piping system
02:39 fghfghjfg / circuit
02:40 MrCurious out of curiosity what was it about #robotics that screamed bottle gas heating to you?
02:40 MrCurious not mocking, just puzzling
02:40 MrCurious as i didnt read all the thread to here
02:42 MrCurious i call chatbot. someone say something about their butt and see if it follows
02:43 Hyratel I think there's a spoon in fghfghjfg 's butt
02:43 MrCurious pv=nrt?
02:43 GargantuaSauce maybe it's Hyratel that's the chatbot
02:43 Hyratel yeahno.
02:43 GargantuaSauce prove it!
02:44 ratel throws a leaky battery at GargantuaSa
02:44 GargantuaSauce which chemistry?
02:44 Curious whispers go with Nickel based
02:44 Hyratel Alkaline. I've seen the nasty shit they puke out eat paper to white grit
02:48 GargantuaSauce well easier to deal with that than sulphuric acid
02:52 Hyratel I had a near miss with an overfilled SLA whose plugs got dislodged
03:07 MrCurious quick, give me redox equations for h2po4 and stable lithium
03:16 MrCurious oh wow. google says on page 1 that h2po4 and li are not a common reaction
03:42 Tom_itx one reg is for the bbq
09:26 rue_mohr2 different pressure?
11:33 billmania k
12:00 poe what up guys?
12:06 esakish o/
12:08 poe1337 http://www.myjibo.com/ pretty cool
13:54 MrCurious i think it is one of those NSA kick starter projects no?
14:16 poe1337 lol maybe, the thought crossed my mine
15:01 peeps[work] hi
15:01 austintrigue howdy
15:01 peeps[work] what kinda robot do you wanna make austintrigue
15:01 austintrigue long time listener, first time caller... was looking to get started with robotics as a hobby. was curious for any recommendations on starter kits or manufacturers
15:02 austintrigue i have no particular goal at the moment other than occupying my freetime with something enjoyable
15:02 austintrigue end goal would be something like an auto ball launcher for my dogs
15:04 peeps[work] well if you want it to be able to shoot different trajectories, you might want to familiarize yourself with hobby servos for movement. if you want it to see then maybe look into opencv though I haven't persinally used it
15:05 peeps[work] somethin like a pinball solenoid could maybe be used to pop the ball depending on distance needed, ball weight, etc
15:05 austintrigue looking for more of a path from novice to amateur to hobbyist, dont mind starting off small
15:10 peeps[work] well the only robotics i've done so far is building 3d printers, which use stepper motors for the drivetrain. learned a lot about how stepper motors and drivers. cnc/g-code, etc from that experience. 3d printers can be quite nice for prototyping or making one-off robotics parts though. maybe some other peeps have some better ideas for kits, intros
15:11 uirrelCZECH jost got 3d printer that stopped wor
15:12 SquirrelCZECH motors started to skipp steps, than all got "not moving"
15:12 SquirrelCZECH sensors are messy, mostly returning "bullshit"
15:12 peeps[work] are your motor driver chips overheating? they have a safety thermal cutoff
15:12 SquirrelCZECH heating sometimes work, sometimes not
15:12 SquirrelCZECH peeps[work]: nope
15:13 SquirrelCZECH I printed entire yeastrday
15:13 SquirrelCZECH watching it -> I was able to hold my hand on all steppers
15:13 SquirrelCZECH they were not cold, but not hot either
15:13 peeps[work] not the motors, but the chip that drives the motors
15:13 SquirrelCZECH yeah
15:13 SquirrelCZECH that's what I ment
15:13 SquirrelCZECH sorry for changing the words
15:14 peeps[work] none of your steppers move now?
15:14 SquirrelCZECH nope, none of them
15:14 SquirrelCZECH peeps[work]: and no smoke either form the drivers
15:14 SquirrelCZECH all fuses I found are working
15:15 peeps[work] what electronics, firmware, did you change anything since it was last working?
15:15 SquirrelCZECH got 12V on PSU, 12V with heating on
15:15 peeps[work] what is the printer model? ramps for electronics?
15:15 SquirrelCZECH Megatronics 2.0 electronics
15:15 SquirrelCZECH stepstick motor drivers
15:15 SquirrelCZECH Prusa i3
15:16 SquirrelCZECH peeps[work]: it worked like for 40 hours of prints ?
15:16 SquirrelCZECH yeastrday at morning I lightly increase the speed of prints, checked the temperatures of drivers
15:16 SquirrelCZECH (it was stable and fine)
15:16 SquirrelCZECH this last 5hours print was only by 10mm/s faster than usual
15:17 peeps[work] are your hotend or heated bed getting power?
15:17 SquirrelCZECH yeah, they are heating up
15:17 SquirrelCZECH but it works kind of messy?
15:17 SquirrelCZECH at first didn't wanted to work at all
15:17 SquirrelCZECH then it started
15:18 SquirrelCZECH bud temperatures got from 30 to 4 when I turned it on
15:18 SquirrelCZECH then it got back, and still goes off sometimes
15:18 peeps[work] if your temp sensors have bad connection or give bad readings the firmware may be waiting for the sensors to read within expected range before activiating motors
15:19 peeps[work] also you might get better advice in #reprap :)
15:19 SquirrelCZECH hmm
15:20 SquirrelCZECH well
15:20 SquirrelCZECH two drivers still got non-functional potenciometrs
15:20 SquirrelCZECH (potenciometers spins and spins)
15:20 peeps[work] :-O that's not good
15:21 SquirrelCZECH yeah
15:21 peeps[work] that's what limits the current on the drivers
15:21 SquirrelCZECH I need new drivers anyway :/
15:21 SquirrelCZECH peeps[work]: exactly
15:21 SquirrelCZECH thing is if I want to spent my money on drivers
15:21 SquirrelCZECH and risk that megatronics itself is messed up
15:21 peeps[work] kinda hard to imagine all your drivers frying at the same time though
15:21 peeps[work] power surge?
15:21 SquirrelCZECH or buy smoothieboard
15:22 SquirrelCZECH peeps[work]: where?
15:22 SquirrelCZECH you mean 230V ?
15:22 SquirrelCZECH I would notice that
15:22 SquirrelCZECH and power source got quite a delay before it turns off
15:22 peeps[work] are you overloading your power supply?
15:23 peeps[work] what is it rated
15:23 peeps[work] might need to do some probing with a multimeter to chase down what's getting power and what's not
15:24 SquirrelCZECH 350W
15:24 SquirrelCZECH that should be much over what reprap needs :)
15:24 peeps[work] 350W atx psu? or is it 12v only
15:24 SquirrelCZECH 350W Industrial
15:25 SquirrelCZECH so 12v only
15:26 peeps[work] your line voltage is 230V where you live? and the switch on the the psu is set to 230V?
15:28 peeps[work] you weren't plugging/unplugging motor wires while powered on were you? the inductive kickback will kill chips
15:30 peeps[work] so many possible things to go wrong, hard to guess without seeing the printer in front of me :/
15:31 SquirrelCZECH FUCK IT
15:31 SquirrelCZECH FUCK THAT MOTHERFUKCING PIECE OF SHI
15:31 SquirrelCZECH T
15:31 SquirrelCZECH result: my USB Hub was the one making the mess
15:32 peeps[work] i don't think i've ever used a usb hub that didn't give me some kind of headache at some point
15:41 SquirrelCZECH peeps[work]: I've got laptop with 3 usb ports
15:41 SquirrelCZECH and no other expansion
15:45 SquirrelCZECH mouse + keyboard and I've got 1 left
15:50 MrCurious laptop lacks a kbd/mouse?
15:52 SlaveToTheSauce http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10307&cs_id=1030702&p_id=5328&seq=1&format=2 i use two of these
15:52 SlaveToTheSauce zero issues
15:53 SlaveToTheSauce the fuck is my pc doing
15:59 peeps[work] SlaveToTheSauce, issues?
16:00 SquirrelCZECH MrCurious: it's hard to use laptops ones with dualscreen
16:00 MrCurious i do with the mac and tri-screen
16:00 SquirrelCZECH well, I simply don't found it "fine"
16:00 uirrelCZECH got pretty nice wireless keyb
16:00 MrCurious and THATS WHAT BT IS FOR....
16:00 SquirrelCZECH only downside is that it doesn't use BT
16:01 MrCurious so dont get it
16:01 MrCurious get a nice apple bt kbd/mouse
16:01 MrCurious live life happy
16:01 SquirrelCZECH well
16:01 SquirrelCZECH as far s I remember a still wasn't able to make my bt work on laptop
16:02 SquirrelCZECH (linux thingy)
16:02 SlaveToTheSauce >apple products
16:02 SlaveToTheSauce >happiness
16:02 SlaveToTheSauce pick one
16:02 MrCurious i like apple, so i get to pick 2
16:02 MrCurious runs windows, osx, linux
16:02 uirrelCZECH hade apple wired be
16:02 SquirrelCZECH best keyboard ever
16:02 MrCurious i can pick the posion of the day
17:04 SquirrelCZECH ok
17:04 SquirrelCZECH best quality usb hub you know?
17:11 SlaveToTheSauce the one i linked
17:13 SquirrelCZECH thanks
17:38 ratel tries to fit partial-strands of a #6 wire into a #10 c
18:23 fghfghjfg I am wondering if one buys a 5hp generator how much electrical power and energy he would beable to get out of it. I can obviously compute the watt of 5hp but i would imagine since engines are not anywhere near 100% efficient (i.e alot would be lossed to heat dissipation ) So our of that 5hp how much hp would be the output for the wattage for electricity/current generated
18:24 Tom_itx 6kw
18:25 fghfghjfg And even if I found that out this would not tell me how many watt hours of energy then engine would give before it ran out of gas or what rpm range it could support if any variation other then fixed
18:26 GargantuaSauce they usually run at a fixed rate
18:26 Hyratel !ops fghfghjfg
18:27 deshipu gas engines are usually the most efficient when tuned for a fixed rpm
18:27 GargantuaSauce well and you want 50/60hz out of the generator
18:27 fghfghjfg ok so say your right about the 6kw for the 5hp then in one hour how much gas would it consume to produces the 6kw-h
18:27 GargantuaSauce i bet if you read the manual for a typical model it would tell you
18:28 GargantuaSauce most of your questions here seem to be solvable with basic research
18:28 GargantuaSauce you seem to have the inference down, you just need to actually go out and find the information you need
18:29 GargantuaSauce what is driving this effort by the way?
18:29 fghfghjfg trying to figure out away to figure out how long an X hp generator will run until it is empty I Would imagine that it would depend on the liter engine though most 5hp engines are close to the same interms of cc / liters
18:29 GargantuaSauce why do you want to know?
18:29 Hyratel 1 shaft HP is equal to 767(?) W electric
18:29 fghfghjfg proviided they run at around the same rpms
18:30 deshipu it will also depend on how much of the electricity you are using (it takes less gas under smaller load)
18:30 deshipu also on the tempreature and pressure outside
18:31 fghfghjfg Ok so my questions are given the hp , and rpms it runs at can you calculate the liter engine ( some formula that gives one variable knowing the 2 others)
18:31 Hyratel fghfghjfg, too many variables to determing
18:31 fghfghjfg Ah to many factors is there an approximation
18:31 GargantuaSauce the displacement is fixed for a given model of engine
18:32 Hyratel for a given engine, displacement is a fixed value
18:34 deshipu how do you solder headers *under* a 1-layer pcb? :/
18:34 fghfghjfg so if the displacement is fix would the approximation be mostly the temp/pressure of operation , and rpms. If different loads are used won't this affect the rpms and temp ? so if the rpms are held fix it is mostly heat dispassion
18:34 Hyratel no
18:34 Hyratel stop
18:34 Hyratel just ...
18:34 Hyratel stop
18:35 Hyratel stop using this channel as your personal information butler
18:35 Hyratel google your questions
18:35 GargantuaSauce deshipu you have to put them on the other side i think
18:35 deshipu GargantuaSauce: then all headers are on the same side and it doesn't make much sense for a shield
18:36 GargantuaSauce if they're just male headers i guess you can hold them in place and solder and slide down the plastic part
18:36 GargantuaSauce but for m-f headers i dont think there's an option like that
18:36 GargantuaSauce except maybe leaving a gap
18:36 MrCurious you guys doing kids homework again?
18:37 deshipu GargantuaSauce: ahh, good idea, I have male ones on one side, and female on the other, so that's doable
18:37 GargantuaSauce you could also have the traces on the bottom
18:37 deshipu GargantuaSauce: what do you mean?
18:37 GargantuaSauce as in, not the top
18:37 GargantuaSauce assuming this is the usual tarduino shield arrangement
18:37 fghfghjfg Ok I guess that is already figured out when purchasing a generator i.e the max load , and max energy/power / current...etc when purchasing. Though I would like to understand how they are caculating this simply by experimate or an aprroximation mathematical formula
18:38 deshipu GargantuaSauce: it's an rpi
18:38 GargantuaSauce ahh
18:38 deshipu and their pcb design is retarded
18:38 GargantuaSauce yeah what i said should work then i guess
18:39 deshipu I might just make a female-female cable, and make all headers male on the same side
18:39 GargantuaSauce not sure how strong it'll be but i guess some people do male headers as smd and it's strong enouh
18:39 GargantuaSauce and there's always cyanoacrylate
18:40 fghfghjfg just by the fuel it uses one can divide the 47KJ /gram by the size tank but the factoring in other factors are definitely required
18:42 fghfghjfg This would give the max amount of energy though the hard part is what would be a good approxiation to uses for how much (percentage wise) it is for the output energy
18:42 fghfghjfg so many way to go confusing requires me to go slow and think
18:46 Hyratel fghfghjfg, then please think about it silently to yourself and not pestering us
18:48 fghfghjfg In terms of generators there are even solar ones but curious if you where going off the grid what is the cheapest method generator based , solar , or wind I would imagine if one could pay for solar or wind that would be the cheapest long term since it is a one time payment renewable , and green why not uses this method over all others for everybody then one would not be wasting gas and won't have to rely on the electric company in
18:48 fghfghjfg any way
18:48 GargantuaSauce probably wind
18:48 GargantuaSauce solar is pretty shitty
18:49 GargantuaSauce neither are one time payments - both require maintenance
18:49 GargantuaSauce batteries wear out over time
18:50 GargantuaSauce none are really cost-effective except in remote areas or to supplement mains power
18:59 deshipu geothermal is nice
18:59 deshipu if you are in the right spot
18:59 deshipu still requires maintenance
19:01 fghfghjfg Ok what about converting gasoline energy to mpg. I do they figure out that. with a dyamomter / driving it / experienmentation for aprroximation. Or some formula ... would imagine the formula would be very complex with many factors for each car to consider
19:02 fghfghjfg where as gas energy to to kilwatt hours is rather simple division
19:07 rue_mohr2 electric cars have almost a fixed kw/km number
19:07 rue_mohr2 its strange
19:08 GargantuaSauce does the efficiency of their motors really increase with the square of their speed like drag does?
19:08 rue_mohr2 when you run the numbers you find out cars are only using about 1/10 of the potential of the gas for driving
19:08 GargantuaSauce i guess regenerative braking makes a big difference at low speeds also
19:08 rue_mohr2 bos has an electric car, his numbers confuse the heck out of me
19:09 GargantuaSauce or rather stop-and-go
19:09 rue_mohr2 one of the big hills, he generates 30kw going down
19:09 rue_mohr2 kw, now kwh
19:09 rue_mohr2 not
19:09 rue_mohr2 kw not kwh
19:09 rue_mohr2 its 100A into the batteries
19:10 rue_mohr2 standard rechage is 3km/min
19:11 rue_mohr2 in the time it takes to get thru a shopping lineup you can charge enough to make up the trip home
19:11 rue_mohr2 not inc standing there trying to work out if you should get the cookies with the chocolate frosting or without
19:12 GargantuaSauce wtf kind of question is that
19:12 rue_mohr2 its not
19:12 fghfghjfg Ok what is the best places to order robotic parts from
19:12 rue_mohr2 best places is china
19:12 GargantuaSauce scavenging, and ebay/aliexpress
19:13 rue_mohr2 and getting parts from old stuff offices get rid of
19:13 rue_mohr2 walk inot any office and say you would like their old broken printer
19:13 rue_mohr2 you have 90% odds of getting one
19:13 rue_mohr2 free if you take it away
19:14 rue_mohr2 depending on the office you might be offered a room full of old pc's too
19:14 fghfghjfg And what languages do you prefer to program them in. I am talking if you are going to make one from scratch.... or you where designing a robot what companies would allow fabrication of the mechanical parts or what places have the machinary to do so
19:14 GargantuaSauce C
19:14 rue_mohr2 ebay PAID to have like 250 17" monitors 'disposed of' for them back in 2007 ish
19:15 rue_mohr2 use avr's. program them in C
19:15 rue_mohr2 do not use PIC, do not use ARM
19:15 deshipu really depends if you want to optimize price or convenience :)
19:15 rue_mohr2 if you want more power get a SBC and put an OS on it
19:15 GargantuaSauce i take exception to your anti-arm propaganda
19:16 Hyratel fghfghjfg, use AVRs runinng realtime interrupt-based code
19:16 deshipu rue_mohr2: sbc?
19:16 Hyratel single board computer
19:16 rue_mohr2 much better to get a nice standard pc and run anything you want on it than an arm you have to custom compile everything for
19:16 deshipu rue_mohr2: like an arm? :)
19:16 Hyratel http://www.stevebate.net/chibios-rpi/GettingStarted.html
19:16 rue_mohr2 its a tiny motherboard, standard intel
19:16 Hyratel if you're doing ANYTHING
19:16 Hyratel ANYTHING
19:16 Hyratel ANYTHING
19:17 Hyratel in motion control or robotics, you must be using a RealTime system
19:17 rue_mohr2 install linux on it and away you go, or windows, and .. whatever
19:17 deshipu rue_mohr2: have you seen those boards MS is giving away? intel-based, the cpu power of an arduino with 17W of power consumption...
19:17 Hyratel rue_house, Windows and most *nix are not realtime
19:17 rue_mohr2 arduino have like no cpu power, its all about dedicated application with them
19:18 deshipu Hyratel: there was a free risc os for rpi, no?
19:18 Hyratel https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33593534/images/Robot/DSCN2012.JPG
19:18 rue_mohr2 no, but if your needind horsepower, usually you sacrifice realtime, you get soemthing like a PIC to do io control in realtime for you
19:18 Hyratel rue_mohr2, "realtime coprocessor"
19:18 deshipu Hyratel: beautiful cable routing
19:18 Hyratel thanks
19:19 rue_mohr2 aka using a usb link to an avr to generate pwm for a motor driver
19:19 Hyratel as rue said
19:19 Hyratel the Arduino is generating PWM signals in realtime
19:19 rue_mohr2 toolbox with backing plate, sweet
19:19 Hyratel upper AND lower
19:19 deshipu so I'm doing everything wrong, I use an arm-based rpi, with non-realtime linux on it and program it in python
19:20 GargantuaSauce you have an mcu doing the timing stuff though
19:20 Hyratel deshipu, if you're doing anything motion control that's more than just an RC car, then yes you're doing it wrong
19:20 GargantuaSauce you just happened to pay 10x the bom for it to have closed source firmware
19:20 deshipu Hyratel: but I got a walking robot in a week, without any prior knowledge, so I think it's nice
19:21 rue_mohr2 hmm EMT, lets see the rest of the frame...
19:21 Hyratel if you need mm-tight positioning, or microsecond braking, then yes, you need realtime
19:21 deshipu of course it could always be improved
19:21 rue_mohr2 avr's run the firmware you program them with in realtime
19:21 Hyratel show pics of your control system
19:21 Hyratel this ^ is an arduino, USB host shield and a protoshield
19:22 Hyratel there's a USB wireless gaming reciever (Xbox360 wireless controller) that hooks to the host shield
19:22 rue_mohr2 cool
19:23 Hyratel if you're doing anything that moves around people, you need realtime
19:23 rue_mohr2 too bad I cant mail you all the micro wire saddles we got at work
19:24 rue_mohr2 too small for us to use
19:24 Hyratel it might look like your deferred system is ok, but you can't predict when it's going to have a 1/8 sec delay and that can wreck your entire machine
19:24 Hyratel micro wire saddles/
19:25 rue_mohr2 http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/Small/70091802.jpg
19:25 rue_mohr2 we bought a bunch that were about 2 sizes under what we intended
19:25 rue_mohr2 200 iirc
19:25 Hyratel dang
19:25 Hyratel why can;'t you send them
19:25 rue_mohr2 from canada it would cost too much
19:26 Hyratel also that's #12 stranded LSC
19:26 Hyratel damn
19:26 Hyratel low strand count
19:26 Hyratel and I just put #10 spade tabs on a #6 battery pigtail so I could hook a bigass battery to my ups
19:27 rue_mohr2 bah, I have to buy almost 200 more things on ebay to get my next star colour
19:28 rue_mohr2 you might also want to play with wire lacing
19:28 Hyratel lacing?
19:28 rue_mohr2 http://blog-imgs-37.fc2.com/k/s/t/kstlab/IMG_0003.jpg
19:28 GargantuaSauce it's where you put another drug in the wire you get users hooked on another of your products
19:28 Hyratel eh
19:28 Hyratel too hard to redo
19:28 rue_mohr2 oldschool, but REALLy easy to deal with
19:28 rue_mohr2 no
19:29 rue_mohr2 its not
19:29 rue_mohr2 thats the surprise
19:29 Hyratel is that jute string
19:29 rue_mohr2 looks like they didn't use athe waxed string in that image
19:29 rue_mohr2 you want the waxed stuff
19:29 GargantuaSauce so it burns better
19:29 Hyratel waxed leatherwork thread?
19:30 e_mohr2 sh
19:30 ratel swats GargantuaSauce without loo
19:30 GargantuaSauce you missed and swatted a fly trap instead
19:30 GargantuaSauce enjoy your hand adhesive
19:30 Hyratel no, i got you. I'm just that damn good.
19:32 GargantuaSauce sorry i cant hear you over the sound of my gainful employment
19:37 robotustra printing in PLA
19:38 GargantuaSauce smells delicious doesnt it
19:38 robotustra it warps less
19:38 GargantuaSauce yeah it's more rigid too. i prefer it
19:38 robotustra I feel some smell but I can't say it smell somehow
19:39 robotustra the only thinkg is that it I would like to make big print like 15 hours
19:39 robotustra don't know how it will behave
19:40 Hyratel robotustra, "it prickles my nostrils but doesn't have a scent"
19:41 robotustra I don't know tha smell of PLA
19:41 robotustra just it is as it is
19:41 GargantuaSauce it's polylactic acid right
19:42 GargantuaSauce the vapour is basically just the monomer
19:42 GargantuaSauce lactose
19:42 GargantuaSauce which is why it smells sweet, to me at least
19:42 robotustra if I feel it somewhere most probably I'll not recognize it
19:42 robotustra ok
19:42 GargantuaSauce i am lactose intolerant which might be why it's very noticable for me i dunno
19:42 robotustra hehe
19:43 GargantuaSauce not in the sense of a reaction but just i didn't have it in my diet so i am not desensitized to its scent?
19:43 robotustra most of canadians are intolerant because of gene defects
19:43 GargantuaSauce that's not a very nice way to put it!
19:44 robotustra sorry
19:44 robotustra but it's true
19:44 rgantuaSauce goes to cry in his mutant co
19:44 robotustra in Europe ppl are mainly tolerant to lactose
19:45 robotustra and one more thing can kill you - all cheese in Canada is made from pasterized milk
19:45 robotustra which means that it's not natural :)
19:46 robotustra and it's NOT TRUE cheese
19:46 GargantuaSauce not gonna challenge that one.
19:47 robotustra GargantuaSauce: I forget what printer do you have?
19:47 GargantuaSauce a shitty mendel
19:48 robotustra why shitty?
19:48 robotustra can you fix it?
19:49 GargantuaSauce i really hate the electronics and firmware, also the frame is not an awesome design
19:49 robotustra I remade geometry on my rostock and now it prints realy nice
19:49 GargantuaSauce no rigidity
19:49 robotustra I just took config from the seemecnc and it prints it right away
19:50 robotustra in 20 min I'll show
19:50 GargantuaSauce sweet
19:51 robotustra there is small warping at the bottom but it's because there is no support, all other print is very even
19:51 robotustra when I tried to print it with ABS it was a mess
20:23 robotustra GargantuaSauce: http://postimg.org/image/bybggsqep/full/
20:24 robotustra http://postimg.org/image/tdxctklbn/full/
20:24 robotustra some warping for overhanging parts, but not so dangerous.
20:25 GargantuaSauce very nice
20:32 GargantuaSauce so what exactly did you change about your printer?
21:00 raleigh about how much do abb or kuka robotic arms cost?
21:00 GargantuaSauce if you have to ask, you can't afford it
21:01 raleigh i don't plan to buy one
21:01 raleigh i just want to know how much they cost
21:02 ace4016 raleigh, iirc, around the hundreds of thousands
21:02 ace4016 actually, i take that back
21:02 GargantuaSauce well kuka does have super low end ones
21:03 GargantuaSauce that will cost something to the tune of 10-15 grand
21:03 ace4016 you can get them as low as in the 10s of thousands
21:03 GargantuaSauce but yeah basically the sky is the limit
21:03 ace4016 you can get them used for a bit less
21:03 GargantuaSauce you could probably spend a million dollars on a single setup without too much effort
21:04 Hyratel http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motoman-Yaskawa-Robot-Arm-NX100-ERCR-IA20-AB00-YR-A00-20kg-Fanuc-Kuka-Nachi-/360861583715?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item540506c963
21:04 Hyratel $27k
21:04 Hyratel load capacity 20kg static
21:04 GargantuaSauce http://www.globalrobots.com/product.aspx?product=22151 this is pretty affordable i guess
21:04 GargantuaSauce 6kg
21:05 GargantuaSauce and only weighs three quarters of a ton.
21:05 ace4016 lol
21:06 Hyratel yes, robotic arms get very heavy, very fast
21:06 ace4016 i found some for only £3500
21:06 ace4016 which i believe is $7000 or so
21:07 ace4016 used
21:08 Hyratel yeah but
21:08 raleigh are these hydraulic?
21:08 raleigh or why are they so heavy?
21:08 Hyratel you need a place to set it up ($$), the poured concrete base ($$$) and someone who knows how to use it ($?)
21:08 GargantuaSauce no they're all electric
21:09 GargantuaSauce they are heavy because they need to be extremely rigid
21:09 GargantuaSauce and also stable
21:09 GargantuaSauce and also have huge fucking motors because they're already super heavy
21:09 ace4016 lol
21:09 raleigh what kind of servo/actuator setup would be used for eg the irb 1400
21:09 GargantuaSauce they probably have fancy magnetic encoders
21:10 GargantuaSauce harmonic drives
21:10 GargantuaSauce and big BLDC motors probably?
21:12 GargantuaSauce and a well-tuned control and driver system
21:14 raleigh why are kukas margins so crappy? http://www.kuka-ag.de/res/AG/financial_reports/2014/KUKA_GB2013_en_20140407.pdf
21:14 raleigh abb does better, but still not that great http://new.abb.com/investorrelations/financial-results-and-presentations/quarterly-results-and-annual-reports-2013
21:14 robotustra GargantuaSauce: I changed filament from ABS to PLA :)
21:15 raleigh it seems like you should be able to have much better margins
21:20 GargantuaSauce i imagine they can't have huge margins on both sales and support because if it's too expensive you can just hire fleshrobots instead
21:20 GargantuaSauce or outsource to china
21:21 GargantuaSauce also flexible automation of the sort provided by their products have not quite caught on i think
21:22 GargantuaSauce because it's considerably more complex to work into a process than some purpose built machine
21:26 raleigh hmm good points
21:26 raleigh fanuc factory looks like it would be a fun place to tour... http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2003/06/01/343371/index.htm
21:26 raleigh that was ten years ago
21:27 Hyratel impressive
21:56 MrCurious schweet success
22:28 eadthem ok im stummped
22:29 eadthem I have a issue with pick and placeing a part (this is on full sized Pick and place robotics, universal insturments)
22:29 eadthem the part is 80 x 80 by 250 thou of a inch solid copper slug
22:30 eadthem i want to present it in a matrix tray
22:30 eadthem how do you get the part to drop in the tray.
22:30 eadthem and not have a tendancy to stick at a 45 degree angle, or ...
22:35 Hyratel you want it to land squarely?
22:40 eadthem ya
22:40 eadthem my math says if the pocket is 50 thou deep
22:41 eadthem then Pthagorian theorum for 50 thou high and 80 thou wide means the pocket with vertical sides must be 95 wide
22:41 eadthem for it to tip in
22:52 eadthem My problem is i need a matrix tray with square corners
22:52 eadthem and you cant make that with a round end mill
22:55 Hyratel get a broach?
22:55 Hyratel or overshoot the ends slightly with a sufficiently small mill
22:57 Hyratel do you have any pictures or renders of your project?
23:01 eadthem think i figured it out
23:02 eadthem worst case with that setup the part can be picked a maximum of 7.5 thou off center
23:02 eadthem or with only 72 thou of the total 80 on the nozzle
23:02 eadthem that shuld be acceptable
23:03 Hyratel I'm not following your concern
23:03 Hyratel do you have a picture of the system?
23:03 eadthem not realy
23:03 eadthem the part is 80 x 80 x 250 thou
23:04 eadthem a rectangle
23:04 eadthem solid copper slug
23:04 Hyratel i saw that
23:04 Hyratel i just can't picture what you're trying to do
23:04 eadthem the pockets in the current tray are a dog bone shape
23:04 eadthem because of corner comp
23:04 eadthem its a shake to load tray
23:05 eadthem so sometimes they land at 45 degrees in the pockets
23:05 eadthem and im trying to figure out what needs to be done to make that work better
23:08 eadthem ya i was trying to get you a photo but the whole thing is for work so
23:09 eadthem think i got what i need now
23:09 eadthem only problem is the matrix trays run about 250$ so its annoying when you work with the other companay to make one and it dosent work.
23:10 eadthem even if this is bleeding edge.
23:10 Hyratel do you have a mill of your own that youc an make protos with?
23:11 eadthem no i do this sort of stuff with a company in calaforna that dose SMT tooling and SMT stencils
23:12 eadthem we just keep comeing up with tooling needs that well nobody has done before, so theres more engineenig in putting it on the board than there was for the "engineers" to make the part :p
23:12 Hyratel hah
23:13 eadthem mmmm come to think of it, they were makeing these copper slugs out of a copper sheet, stamping it
23:13 eadthem i had to tell them no thats stupid, cut square wire to make them instead :p
23:13 Hyratel hahah