#robotics Logs
Jun 11 2014
#robotics Calendar
00:29 orlock i need a heater for the shed
00:29 orlock i cleaned it so theres usable bench space now, but its too cold to work in there
00:47 orlock i found some 1/4" hex to square socket adaptors
00:48 orlock so you can use sockets with a normal cheap cordless drill
01:01 rue_bed make a little rocket stove
01:01 rue_bed do you have a welder?
01:01 orlock No, thats on the list
01:01 rue_bed 24VDC 60A
01:02 rue_bed adjustable down
01:02 rue_bed that'll do for small and mid sized stuff
01:02 rue_bed I weld normal stuff at 25 to 49A
01:02 rue_bed 60-90 for cutting
01:02 orlock See the guy using a Tek DSO as a tacho for his delorian - via the 12v socket?
01:03 rue_bed haha
01:03 rue_bed yea
01:03 rue_bed finding out the crank is lumpy
01:03 orlock yeah!
01:03 orlock i checked out the price on that scope - about $13k
01:03 rue_bed and averaging it all wrong
01:03 rue_bed heh
01:03 orlock its got the exact same specs as the one i bought for $200
01:04 rue_bed hah
01:04 orlock i pulled apart my factory stepper controller on the weekend for my telescope mount
01:04 orlock decided to get off my ass and actually finish the replacement controller
01:04 rue_bed oooh yea
01:04 orlock hooked up the fancy Tek DSO. with fucking pastel COLOUR CODED PROBES
01:04 rue_bed gee that was what, 5 years ago?
01:05 orlock at least that
01:05 rue_bed do fucking probes mate better?
01:05 orlock Dont need to worry about dialling in the range or anything, just hit the "Auto" button
01:05 orlock Bam, everything appears on screen
01:06 rue_bed cool
01:06 orlock with the waveforms colour coded to the probes
01:06 rue_bed I need to finishing building that dso
01:06 orlock theres a bug/flaw in the factory firmware too
01:06 rue_bed I got a techtronic input module for it
01:06 orlock and after seeing it on a scope, i can hear it in the stepper drive
01:07 rue_bed timing glitch?
01:07 orlock theres a factory diagnostics pin or whatever which has something like a constant 12.5ms pulse width
01:07 rue_bed bad irq priorities?
01:08 orlock but if you monitor the outputs that go to the coils, they have the same pulse width (as you would expect)
01:08 orlock but it pulses about 4 times every second, all in a row
01:08 orlock and is then idle for the rest
01:08 rue_bed hah
01:09 rue_bed thats not a glitch, that just cr**
01:09 orlock so 4 steps per coil every second, all done in about 1/4 of a second, and everything idle after that
01:09 orlock yeah!
01:10 orlock and i thought i was being clever measing the factory debug pin pulse width and basing my controller off that - and it ended up being 4x too fast
01:10 rue_bed maybe they didn't know how to do brensham to work out non-integer solutions
01:10 orlock its got some little fpga in there
01:10 rue_bed !!!!
01:10 rue_bed cool
01:10 rue_bed you do fpga's?
01:10 rue_bed I want to
01:10 orlock nope
01:11 orlock and i'll piss off the factory handset anyay
01:11 rue_bed I recently realized that a printer baord has what *seems* to be a board that is *just* fpga and support chips
01:11 rue_bed I think the developer wanted a few for playing with
01:12 rue_bed has a jtag port
01:12 rue_bed I need a programmer 'n software
01:12 orlock its not suprising that its so crap - this is a chinese copy of a japanese mount, and the japanese mounts likely originally used 60Hz sync motors
01:12 rue_bed and lots of help from Tom_itx
01:13 rue_bed funny, I was just thinking of making a vfd for 2 phase stepper motors
01:13 orlock some other people are working on the same thing as me, but they are all using those A988 or whatever they are stepper modules
01:14 orlock VFD = modify your 60Hz mains freq to change speed?
01:16 rue_bed no I was thinking avr->amp-> stepper
01:16 rue_bed modify the voltage with the freq
01:18 orlock looking at some of the code of multiple other people trying to do the same thing
01:18 orlock theres some serial protocol stuff in there, all documented and reasonably simple
01:19 rue_bed I'm thinking for battery powered robot drives
01:19 orlock while i'm using a cascade of case statements for a decoder, one of the other people is using strcmp for every single instruction
01:19 rue_bed so when the freq drops to 0 so does the current, no residual breaking
01:20 orlock rue_bed: I'm going to try and do a basic writeup of the shitness of the factory telescope controller
01:20 rue_bed use brensham, whenever the time error is more than the position error, step
01:21 orlock i can even use screen grabs to demonstrate the difference
01:21 orlock i tried to grab examples off the Tek 475, but i was using a DSLR.. so it didnt work too well
01:22 orlock as in, pointing camera at the CRT
04:40 orlock http://boingboing.net/2014/06/10/vermeers-paintings-might-be.html
08:26 aelindgard good evening/morning etc. all
09:14 rue_more mmmm
09:23 SlaveToTheSauce good generic time interval to you also
09:31 rue_more http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9177__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S_20C_Lipo_Pack.html
09:31 rue_more convert a vehicle with 312 of those at only $10296
09:31 armyofevilrobots Man, Lipos got cheap.
09:32 SlaveToTheSauce plus shipping
09:32 rue_more yes, plus chipping
09:32 SlaveToTheSauce shipping from hk is NOT cheap
09:32 SlaveToTheSauce just blew a bunch of money there
09:32 rue_more armyofevilrobots, something I needed to ask you, cant remmeber
09:32 armyofevilrobots I'll be here :)
09:33 rue_more :/ I need to find affordable batteries for my truck
09:34 SlaveToTheSauce http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=27132
09:34 SlaveToTheSauce got one of these and all the fixins
09:34 SlaveToTheSauce except fpv stuff, i'll probably roll my own solution or give up and order it later
09:34 rue_more I bet you can buy a replacement leaf battery for less
09:36 rue_more 360V, 66Ah
12:43 GuShH ahhh!! why must it rain!!
12:52 Tom_itx to make things green
12:53 billmania to fill the dry reservoirs
13:00 GuShH to rust my steel
13:14 Tom_itx cover your steel
13:16 GuShH Tom_itx: it instantly gets wet when they deliver it under rain though.
13:16 GuShH as much as it might come covered in oil, it will rust if you don't dry it and oil it again... sigh
13:17 GuShH point about buying new is you don't want to deal with getting rid of the rust and loosing your original OD over said rust to avoid the pitting
13:17 GuShH otherwise I'd buy scraps if I could
13:17 ShH noticed the aluminum and brass went up considerably since the last time he purchased
13:17 GuShH 40% or so... nuts.
14:46 GuShH Tom_itx: and such is my luck the steel I ordered for a fence was not the right one, all things considered this was cheaper, but it doesn't have the holes pre-drilled, which is a massive PITA.
14:46 GuShH read: they sent the wrong cut, not my fault this time!
14:47 GuShH the cool thing about the pre-drilled stuff (well it's stamped out while it's hot) is that you can just slide the rod or square stock (depending on model) and just tack it together, boom instant gate, fence, etc.
14:48 GuShH I can always drill the round holes, but I wanted combination square-round which looks nicer and is more rigid (IMO)
14:48 GuShH not that I was going to torque the square stock, but it's nicer...
14:48 GuShH actually I could, by hand. but that's a lot of effort
14:49 GuShH half inch cross section requires what, 2 meter cheater bar to make it bareable?
14:49 GuShH maybe one meter
18:13 GuShH Tom_itx: hmm cold rolled is so much nicer, but spendy by comparison :(
18:14 GuShH do you know if the milscale pops off during the cold rolling or if there's an intermediary step involved?
18:23 Tom_itx nope
19:33 GuShH Tom_itx: it machines differently, must be the work hardening
19:36 GuShH from what I gather cold rolled is bad for dimensionally accurate parts to be milled, slotted, etc. As it's under stress, when the stress is relieved, it shifts ever so slightly.
19:38 GuShH so more yield, slightly more elastic -- at the expense of ductility and of course available only in smaller cuts
19:38 GuShH this means nothing to what I'm doing, but it's good to know :)
19:40 Hyratel GuShH, so what /is/ CRS good for?
19:42 GuShH sorry went to fetch some edibles.
19:43 GuShH Hyratel: if you took that into consideration it would be good for anything within the tensile strength of that particular cut...
19:43 GuShH it's a lot more dimensionally accurate than HRS (at least the stuff I get here) so that's also good
19:43 Hyratel does the rebound come into play during machining?
19:44 GuShH but when I said it's "bad" that's based on what I read about the inner stress of the steel, due to the cold rolling and work hardening it may also be uneven.
19:44 GuShH and it seems to be unstable in that regard.
19:44 GuShH watched a video not long ago where the guy described a similar issue with CRS plate
19:45 GuShH he had a 90° angle and it had to be within a certain grade of accuracy, the day after machinning it was off by half a thou or so.
19:45 GuShH the angle was cut before he cut a slot on the plates, which is what relieved the stress
19:46 GuShH perhaps annealing prior to machinning would help with this?
19:46 Hyratel might
19:47 GuShH but then any subsequent heat treatment could distort the piece.
19:48 GuShH at any rate I believe final surfaces should be precision ground, cold (ie. at a stable room temperature, not allowing the work to heat up)
19:48 GuShH so maybe he was doing it fundamentally wrong.
19:48 ShH wants to learn more about s
19:49 Hyratel steel has a lot of interesting and exploitable properties
19:49 Hyratel speaking of, I made a knife , blacksmithing
20:20 GuShH Hyratel: nice
20:20 GuShH what type of knife?
20:20 GuShH :D
20:20 Hyratel a little one, with a looped handle
20:20 GuShH hrmm out of what alloy?
20:21 GuShH I tried to forge hot rolled steel once, it split... I think I wasn't working it hot enough
20:21 GuShH making a holding tool for woodworking (forgot the name, it's got a hook shape)
20:21 GuShH I mean it works.. but it's not pretty.
20:22 GuShH plus the improvised forge wasn't helping, and the lack of blacksmithing tools.
20:23 ShH is a complete noob on blacksmithing, but would like to learn
20:23 GuShH in some places it's a lost art
20:24 GuShH bbl
20:26 Hyratel you can do the great majority of general purpose smithing with a 2/3 lb sledge and an 18oz ballpeen hammer
20:26 GuShH I have that.. but what about your striking surface?
20:26 GuShH Tom_itx: I'd like to get some 2 inch SAE1010 but to cut that thing on a chopsaw is nuts... 1 1/4" is already asking too much for a low power abrassive saw. Any ideas?
20:26 Hyratel a 10 lb sledge sunk into a sufficiently massive chunk of treetrunk
20:26 Hyratel sledge head
20:28 GuShH eek
20:28 GuShH eeeeeek
20:28 GuShH sorry no.
20:28 Hyratel whyfor not?
20:28 GuShH but you know what I saw once, a chunk of 6" steel used as an anvil, but it was heat treated before.
20:29 GuShH was quite soft though
20:29 Hyratel if you have access to railroad track chunks
20:29 GuShH I know where to get some, it just wouldn't be legal
20:29 GuShH >_
20:29 GuShH <
20:29 GuShH Haha
20:29 Hyratel you need your anvil face to PING when you tap it lightly with a hammer
20:29 GuShH Also cutting it is a chore.
20:29 GuShH Grandpa had an anvil... but he had to sell it
20:29 GuShH big one.
20:30 Hyratel dang
20:30 GuShH yeah... and I didn't get any of his tools when he passed
20:30 Hyratel also why so much Nope on a sledge head anvil
20:30 GuShH kinda sad, got no tools to remember him by
20:30 GuShH I don't like striking on hammer heads
20:30 Hyratel this is advice directly from a smith
20:30 GuShH some are nuts.
20:31 Hyratel do you have access to suitable steel billet?
20:31 GuShH I can order it yes
20:31 GuShH almost anything, the transport is the expensive bit
20:31 Hyratel all you need is a flat surface that will ping and which you can seat into something massive
20:31 Hyratel do you ahve access to tree trunk sections?
20:31 GuShH sure
20:31 ShH revs up the chain
20:31 Hyratel like, 50+lb of it, 1-2 ft long and 16-18" dia
20:32 GuShH I do
20:32 Hyratel great
20:32 GuShH I have a whole tree to cut up otherwise (fell on a storm)
20:32 GuShH But... am I that big on blacksmithing?
20:33 GuShH anyway a 440lbs anvil costs about 550 bucks used, unknown quality and state.
20:33 GuShH having it delivered however, costs just as much
20:34 GuShH and I do see some of them are mounted on wood trunks
20:34 Hyratel you don't *need* a huge anvil to start out
20:34 GuShH Ok here's one: FIRMINI 1910 ... 104KG (smaller)
20:34 Hyratel how about no
20:35 GuShH Just saying if I wanted to invest on blacksmithing the stuff is there to be had...
20:35 GuShH 380 bucks for another 440lbs one
20:36 GuShH on wood
20:36 Hyratel http://www.anvilfire.com/anvils/af_anvils_025b.php
20:36 GuShH hey if I were to buy one, I'd get an old -real- one
20:36 GuShH like those I mentioned.
20:36 Hyratel weasel word "real"
20:36 GuShH why weasel?
20:36 Hyratel the "real" is the material and temper
20:36 Hyratel the word you want is Old/vintage
20:37 GuShH nah, a real anvil.
20:37 Hyratel but "real" is the PING and rebound from testing it with a hammer
20:37 Hyratel if it pings, it's real
20:37 GuShH depends on hammer hardness, won't ping on a deadblow lead hammer.
20:38 GuShH it'll go "kachunk"
20:38 Hyratel implied: steel hammer used to test. you're pulling at straw
20:38 Hyratel s
20:38 GuShH lol
20:38 Hyratel http://www.oldworldanvils.com/anvils/anvilstake_rect.html
20:39 GuShH Hyratel: this applies to everything... buy the best you can afford.
20:39 GuShH or, spend as much as you are willing to invest.
20:39 GuShH I bet these ones you show me are ok for small wrok
20:39 GuShH work*
20:39 Hyratel also why do you say you dont' want to hit on a hammer head
20:39 GuShH depends on the state of the hammer, if it's damaged you might get flying shrapnel.
20:40 GuShH I have a few with mushroom heads.
20:40 GuShH if you hit one of the sides, it might fly off.
20:40 GuShH that's not a myth.
20:40 Hyratel yeah but you're not striking the anvil *hard* with the working hammer
20:41 GuShH hey I've had my share of flying steel.
20:41 Hyratel I've had tent pegs mushroom
20:41 Hyratel (mind, these are 1/2" steel square stock and 24" long)
20:41 GuShH actually I got a small hammer with a pretty damaged head, but that's how I got it. made a handle for it.
20:41 ShH got some 1/2" square stock t
20:42 GuShH 20ft long, mine is longer than yours
20:42 ShH runs away laug
20:42 ratel chases GuShH waving a tent ridge
20:42 GuShH Hyratel: I can't think of any harder surface at hand, to play with
20:42 GuShH within a usable diameter.
20:43 Hyratel auger a cavity in a tree chunk and sink a hammer head into it if you need an improv anvil
20:43 GuShH But I could get some 10" steel, problem is heat treating it.
20:43 GuShH used railway track must be super work hardened
20:43 Hyratel it really is
20:44 Hyratel http://www.ebay.com/itm/SFC-Inc-10-Lb-Sledge-Hammer-Blacksmith-Maul-Double-Face-Head-Made-in-Japan-/261495961538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce25fb7c2
20:44 GuShH I'll ask around
20:44 GuShH I have an OK collection of hammers, actually more than I need....
20:44 GuShH but no specific blacksmithing ones, just general metal working and wood working
20:45 Hyratel the reason for 10+ lb is because it's about the smallest you can reliably use as the anvil face
20:45 GuShH pliers are also a huge thing for them
20:45 GuShH or whatever the blacksmith ones are called :)
20:45 Hyratel a 2/3lb sledge and a standard BP will get you started
20:45 Hyratel "tongs" i think
20:45 GuShH clinchers, pliers, tongs
20:45 GuShH and all the cool forming tools
20:46 GuShH and hot "cutting"
20:46 GuShH cool as in neat.
20:46 GuShH oh and stamping as well.
20:46 Hyratel the "hardest" part to get set up with is a forge
20:46 ShH would end up bankrupt if he took on that h
20:46 GuShH I have half a forge already setup
20:46 Hyratel and you can get a weed dragon and some refractory cement and have something to get you started
20:46 GuShH but it was meant for aluminum.
20:47 Hyratel you'd go broke?
20:47 GuShH yeah
20:47 Hyratel sell shit you make
20:47 GuShH shit doesn't sell
20:47 Hyratel then make blades.
20:47 GuShH actually it does, for plants.
20:48 Hyratel knives sell
20:48 GuShH people will buy anything
20:48 GuShH lol
20:48 GuShH we already have some good guys doing that :)
20:48 GuShH these are typical blades from argentina http://mla-s2-p.mlstatic.com/hoja-cuchillo-atahualpa-tandil-13602-MLA3004927028_082012-F.jpg
20:49 GuShH I think some of them are made out of old truck springs
20:49 Hyratel that's good metal
20:49 Hyratel I have access to a large pile of truck springs
20:49 GuShH nice
20:50 GuShH I never worked with that
20:50 Hyratel but only infrequently
20:50 Hyratel still. knifemaking can be locally lucrative
20:50 GuShH I've used one of those blades, they are nice.
20:50 Hyratel is there a makerspace or local maker Fair?
20:50 GuShH brother has some of those
20:50 Hyratel yeah but it doesn't look folded
20:51 GuShH no those aren't
20:51 GuShH they're the cheapest.
20:51 Hyratel people will pay out the nose for pattern weld
20:52 GuShH most of the knives here are ornamental
20:52 GuShH http://sia1.subirimagenes.net/img/2014/04/02/140402042533275835.jpg
20:52 GuShH that kind of thing.
20:53 GuShH they're not cheap.
20:53 GuShH http://sia1.subirimagenes.net/img/2014/04/02/140402042522209759.jpg
20:53 Hyratel http://jarkko1.deviantart.com/art/Pattern-welded-womans-knife-176214182
20:53 GuShH I don't really like that style.
20:55 GuShH Hyratel: but the finish on that is obtained through acid etch or similar?
20:55 GuShH and what makes it a woman's knife
20:55 ShH p
20:55 GuShH smaller? lighter?
20:55 Hyratel you can emphasise it with etching, but it's normally fairly subtle
20:55 Hyratel the mode of make
20:56 Hyratel the folded back handle like that
20:56 GuShH meh
20:56 Hyratel it's easy to make that style small
20:57 Hyratel but the blade can easily be as long as your hand, heel to fingertip
20:57 GuShH Not sure blacksmithing is for me but I'll give it another go, what's the best starter project?
20:57 Hyratel a knife like that
20:57 GuShH no, come on. something simpler.
20:58 Hyratel no, that *is* simple
20:58 GuShH not a square head nail though.
20:58 Hyratel I learned to make one with two direct demos and a first try
20:58 GuShH But I already have enough knives!
20:58 orlock Eric Hill died :-(
20:59 Hyratel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ7coBP8feQ
20:59 GuShH wait, what is he starting with... what type of steel...
20:59 GuShH THIS ALREADY BEGINS BADLY.
20:59 Hyratel that's showing it starting from rectangle stock
21:00 Hyratel yeah, bleh
21:00 GuShH "rectangle stock" can be anything.
21:00 GuShH sorry it's not all the same, also OCD.
21:00 Hyratel 3/8" square tool steel
21:00 Hyratel makes a good knife
21:00 GuShH see, I don't have tool steel around.
21:00 Hyratel do you have dull flat files?
21:00 GuShH not really.
21:01 GuShH and the dull, broken ones have already been converted to something else.
21:02 Hyratel well, the steel is well suited to knifemaking
21:02 Hyratel and I am /not/ kidding about that style of knife being easy to make
21:02 GuShH wood turning would match nicely with a custom blade... but I must resist.
21:03 GuShH urges. to. start. another. hobby.
21:03 GuShH can't.
21:03 GuShH when you take on too many hobbies you end up with a bunch of unfinished crap.
21:04 orlock i know that feeling
21:06 GuShH Hyratel: I'd be tempted to start with random steel, but the quality really matters for a blade....
21:06 Hyratel GuShH, if you had a good tutor, you could be making 3 of that style of knife in an afternoon. at least, making the blanks. you'd still have to sharpen them up, but that can be done at lessure
21:06 GuShH unless it's not meant to be used I guess
21:06 GuShH I'm ok with knife sharpening and honing...
21:06 Hyratel well, you have to face the blade
21:07 Hyratel you don't get a sharpenable shape right out of the quench tank
21:08 GuShH hmmm he's hot filing the sides!
21:14 GuShH Hyratel: how much faster is hot filing vs cold filing?
21:14 Hyratel idk
21:27 -verne.freenode.net:#robotics- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
21:32 Hyratel GuShH, sorry, was in-game. I'd imagine hot filing because with the metal softer, you're able to remove more material pr stroke
22:54 GuShH Hyratel: yeah just wondering how much by comparison with cold filing
22:54 GuShH rue_more: hmmm spindle bearings are crapping out I think...
22:54 orlock fuck its cold
22:54 GuShH kinda cold.
22:54 GuShH grease keeps spewing out and I hear a few gritty noises... bad... I think combination of improper preloading and cheap bearings caused the short life
22:55 orlock 16c here, feels colder
22:55 GuShH it makes sense and explains the surface finish issues
22:55 GuShH yeah it's 16°C
22:55 orlock ... which country?
22:55 GuShH Argentina
22:55 GuShH 21 maximum and 10 minimum today.
22:55 GuShH tomorrow 14-6
22:55 Tom_itx shower felt refreshing...
22:56 Tom_itx ran bunch of cat5 tonight
22:56 Tom_itx orlock, how's the new house workin out?
22:58 orlock Awesome
22:58 Tom_itx got your telescope all set up yet?
22:58 orlock nah, tried to get one of them set up, but the wildlife started attacking
22:59 orlock so i cleaned up my workshop and started breaking out the toys i bought from my old employer
22:59 orlock i cannot justify hanging onto the Tek scope
22:59 orlock i hardly ever use my old Tek scope
23:00 orlock and this one is so fucking fancy
23:00 Tom_itx haven't had time to look thru my telescope in quite a while
23:00 Tom_itx it hardly gets dark enough here in the city to see anything
23:00 orlock i dont actually look through mine much
23:00 orlock more interested in imaging
23:01 orlock my mount's gears are a bit shit - so i'm working on compensating for that via active tracking
23:01 orlock but then i still have bad CA due to old lenses
23:02 orlock maybe i will get either a cheap little APO telescope, or a reflector lense from DealsExtreme
23:02 Tom_itx is yours mounted on an angle plate or does it do x y tracking?
23:03 orlock equatorial with single motor, so in factory form it compensates for earths rotation
23:03 orlock second motor is homebrew and will allow for positioning as well
23:03 orlock but its EQ, not alt-az, so its not quite X/Y
23:04 orlock the mount has to be calibrated for its specific physical location
23:04 Tom_itx i think mine will do both depending how the software is set
23:04 orlock EQ, you have to adjust it to your latitude
23:04 Tom_itx yeah
23:05 Tom_itx i hardly remember how to set it up it's been so long
23:05 orlock so that when the main motor is "tracking" , the plane that it revolves around is pointing at the celestial pole
23:05 orlock a lot of them have a tiny little telescope in the mount body to aid in calibrating that
23:06 Tom_itx i just have a red pointer to get 'close'
23:06 Tom_itx to an object
23:07 orlock http://www.dx.com/p/500mm-f-6-3-telephoto-mirror-lens-90885
23:09 GuShH you'd buy that from dx.com?
23:09 orlock Unsure.
23:10 Tom_itx http://www.celestron.com/browse-shop/astronomy/telescopes/nexstar-evolution-8
23:10 GuShH rue_more: can't find info on spindle removal...
23:10 Tom_itx i think that's similar to mine but mine's much older
23:10 orlock I'd probably prefer to spend $700ish and get a little apochromatic reflector
23:19 orlock Tom: thats Alt-Az style, you can turn it into equatorial but you need a wedge, they sit between the mount and the for and tilt it
23:19 orlock where the angle of the wedge is your latitude
23:21 Tom_itx i thought my software would compensate for it
23:21 Tom_itx i think it can be set up with a plate or without
23:21 Tom_itx i could be mistaken
23:21 orlock you can compensate for it in that the Alt/Az tracking will still track a star
23:22 orlock but if you try to take long exposures, you will find that the image frame's reletive "up" will end up rotating around
23:22 Tom_itx probably so
23:22 Tom_itx i've not done photography with mine
23:23 Tom_itx i think i did get a mount for it though
23:23 orlock http://www.celestron.com/support/knowledgebase?article=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.celestron.com%2Fc3%2Fsupport3%2Findex.php%3F_m%3Dknowledgebase%26_a%3Dviewarticle%26kbarticleid%3D2222%26group%3Diframe&title=What+is+field+rotation%3F+How+does+it+affect+my+scope%E2%80%99s+viewing+and+imaging%3F
23:26 Tom_itx gettin late here.
23:26 Tom_itx later
23:26 orlock cya
23:27 Tom_itx thanks for the link