#robotics Logs

May 25 2014

12:36 rue_more I'm making a flahs chip programmer
12:37 rue_more usb/ttl -> mega32 -> flash chip
12:37 rue_more I thought it would be a really ugly project, but aparently its not
12:37 rue_more the packets aren't that ugly
12:38 rue_more unless a sector is protected, and none of the ducumentation I have says anything about unprotecting sectors
12:38 rue_more but it does clue that you need to use HV signalling
12:39 rue_more there is an 8051eeprom version that has a builtin bootloader, I'll use the same protocol as that
12:42 rue_more hmm maybe
13:50 rue_more I'v just realized that a roaming muffin fan sucking on the floor could pick up quite a lot
14:37 rue_more ok I can handle hex files larger than 64k
14:38 rue_more my first project then should be to make it read memory chips
14:40 rue_more hmm I'll need a client side app for this...
14:40 rue_more means I dont have to send the data in ascii
14:57 rue_shop2 need to build some hardware!
15:40 rue_more the computer at the soldering station lost its capacitors yesterday, I reaplaced the machine (had a spare) and now its hard drive has died
15:40 rue_more when they want to break they sure are persistant
19:48 blank___ http://vimeo.com/51011081 11:42...
19:48 blank___ haha
19:53 blank___ What are the practical limitations/problems with developing strong AI?
19:55 ace4016 practical limitations?
19:55 ace4016 computation
19:56 ace4016 problems? creating a model that works in the real world. ethical and social issues to address (Isaac Asimov type stuff), etc.
20:01 blank___ forget the social and ethical... just get 'er done
20:01 blank___ let the humanities and politicians figure that out
20:01 blank___ computational problem :)
20:06 ace4016 don't think anyone is close to a true strong AI, or anything remotely impressive in the same line tbh
20:06 ace4016 it recieves very little attention
20:06 ace4016 it's still so far out that progress will be slow until there is an application for the various parts
20:08 blank___ bummer...
20:22 robotustra_ human.kill();
20:22 robotustra_ human.killAgain();
20:23 robotustra_ very neat humore sense
20:24 robotustra_ practical limitation - is the absence of clear task of what should be implemented to get real AI
20:24 robotustra_ pure AI is not needed
20:25 robotustra_ but practical AI is not so easy to implement at home conditions
20:26 ace4016 yea, i think that falls more into the problem rather than limitation: no clear and well defined problem
20:27 blank___ well wouldn't solving an ai-complete problem be clear?
20:27 ace4016 ai-complete problem?
20:27 blank___ say for instance scoring high on this:http://www.kaggle.com/c/billion-word-imputation
20:28 ace4016 that's not necessarily strong AI
20:28 ace4016 that's one small task
20:28 ace4016 (comparatively small)
20:28 blank___ nope but it would be a huge contribution, imo
20:29 blank___ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI-complete
20:29 robotustra_ yes it's a dummy task
20:29 blank___ nah... nobody can do that task well...
20:29 blank___ it would imply natural language understanding...
20:30 ace4016 sure, but strong AI would have much more than that
20:30 robotustra_ natural language understanding it's a nigligent part of AI task
20:30 ace4016 which goes back to what i mentioned before
20:30 blank___ the speech recognition guys are retiring / shifting to vision research... and i bet they're gonna switch to nlu after that.
20:30 ace4016 there's a lot of pieces to the puzzle, and the pieces aren't well formed yet
20:30 robotustra_ the way AI-complete task is formulated - it's wring
20:31 robotustra_ blank___: are you provocator?
20:31 blank___ no... and i didn't make that up retiring/switching...
20:31 robotustra_ you have no idea what AI is and how it can be implemented
20:32 robotustra_ and I have
20:32 blank___ robotustra_, haha
20:32 robotustra_ and I'm implementing it
20:32 blank___ oh ok...
20:32 robotustra_ just wait for 5 years till I finish
20:32 Curious stretches
20:32 ank___ la
20:34 ank___ does his best serious fac
20:34 blank___ ok how are you going to do it?
20:35 robotustra_ listen to me kid, I was thinking how to do this for more than 10 years
20:35 robotustra_ and for 5 years I was looking the ways of implementation
20:36 blank___ me too
20:36 blank___ i figured it out in 2006
20:36 robotustra_ now I'm just implementing it
20:36 blank___ me too
20:36 robotustra_ good luck
20:36 blank___ what is your secret sauce?
20:36 blank___ mine is cloze deletion testing
20:36 robotustra_ I bet you still don't know how to do this
20:36 blank___ nope but google and kaggle are working on it, so am i
20:37 robotustra_ because as I find out - nobody could tell me how to do this
20:37 robotustra_ so, you just a stupid caw which goes in the direction of all crowd
20:37 robotustra_ good luck again
20:37 robotustra_ I go my own direction
20:38 robotustra_ and I'm not going to explain stranger in a chat how to do AI
20:38 robotustra_ what if you are working in google?
20:38 robotustra_ eh?
20:38 blank___ then i'd steal your idea and patent it so i could make a hundred million dollars
20:38 robotustra_ yes
20:39 robotustra_ but the other reason why I don't tell you is : what if my idea is wrong?
20:39 robotustra_ so I just mislead you
20:39 blank___ nah you'll just look foolish in #freenode and you'll have to come up with a new nickname
20:40 robotustra_ may be your current concept is better than mine
20:40 robotustra_ so, anyway, just to explain my concept I need about of week just to type it here
20:41 robotustra_ so, let everything stay in my head
20:41 robotustra_ I don't need any help from outside to inplement it, I just need time
20:42 blank___ but you've already messed up
20:42 robotustra_ if I start to collaborate with somebody - I kan spend 2 times more time just for colaboration
20:42 blank___ i'm at google and i know you know how to make ai
20:42 robotustra_ no I didn't mess
20:42 blank___ and i will tell my buddies they can get it off of your computer
20:42 robotustra_ I don't put main ideas to my computer
20:43 robotustra_ I'm not so stupid
20:43 blank___ how are you going to implement it?
20:43 blank___ need a computer to do that, no?
20:43 robotustra_ yes, but it's not connected to the net
20:43 robotustra_ robot will not be connected to any network
20:43 blank___ did you design that computer?
20:43 robotustra_ I can design OS
20:44 robotustra_ that is not compartible with other computers
20:44 blank___ all computers can be connected to the internet... its a backdoor and now everyone here knows it is on your computer...
20:44 robotustra_ how dummy you are
20:44 blank___ you're dumb... they're going to steal it off of your computer when you don't expect it.
20:44 robotustra_ do you know what is stand alone mean?
20:44 robotustra_ I don't care
20:44 blank___ you didn't design that computer though, did you?
20:45 robotustra_ they will not understand how it works
20:45 blank___ robotustra_, sure there are people at least equal to your superior intelligence
20:45 robotustra_ I really don't care
20:45 blank___ and even if they aren't as smart as you they can get it off your computer and beat you to the punch
20:45 robotustra_ and there is a reason for this
20:46 robotustra_ they can steal software but can't hardware
20:46 blank___ didn't you just tell me you're hiding it?
20:46 blank___ in your head and your computer that you didn't design?
20:46 blank___ they're not as smart as you, but they'll get it... beware... i told you so...
20:46 robotustra_ I will run it on usual computer
20:47 MrCurious so memorial day is the time of year when we remember ...
20:47 MrCurious to go furnature shopping?
20:47 robotustra_ eh?
20:47 robotustra_ no, I did visual filters today
20:48 robotustra_ now charging the battery
20:48 robotustra_ played with eyes for hole day
20:48 robotustra_ got some interesting result
20:50 robotustra_ blank___: my brain is not so superior as you think
20:50 robotustra_ I just was thinking in this direction long enough to be ahead of all
20:51 robotustra_ because most of thinking which was done by others more like random motion in all directions
20:51 blank___ robotustra_, they know you're smart you're just playing possum now.
20:51 robotustra_ so, why they didn't offered me a job than?
20:52 blank___ i don't know... i've just been messing with you...
20:52 robotustra_ anyway even if google make me an offer I'll refuse it
20:53 robotustra_ it's not in time already
20:54 robotustra_ I can do it without them
20:54 blank___ how?
20:54 robotustra_ easy
20:54 robotustra_ make hardware and write software
20:55 robotustra_ how do you think?
20:55 blank___ no ai...
20:55 robotustra_ ai software
20:56 robotustra_ blank___: what is the stage of your AI
20:56 GuShH robotustra_: no job offer because your English is terrible!
20:56 GuShH Either that or you're not as good as you think you are.
20:56 robotustra_ GuShH: I can be mute
20:57 GuShH Well if I cut your vocal cords, yes you can be a mute.
20:57 robotustra_ GuShH: I must admit you are true
20:57 blank___ robotustra_, my ai is not very far...
20:57 GuShH I'm not true nor false.
20:57 blank___ i'm anticipating 2050+
20:57 robotustra_ my english is bad but I'm not suffer from it much
20:58 robotustra_ I'm not suffering
20:58 robotustra_ ok
20:58 GuShH Your English used to be a lot better.
20:58 blank___ robotustra_, what country?
20:58 GuShH Who knew stainless steel swarf was so sharp
20:58 ShH sucks on fin
20:59 blank___ stainless coils coming off a lathe will penetrate your chest...
20:59 robotustra_ GuShH: When I write not so fast and do corrections - it's a bit better.
20:59 GuShH not at this scale, I was working with a small rod.
20:59 GuShH blank___: hence why a chipbreaker is important.
21:00 GuShH and peck drilling.
21:03 robotustra_ Canada
21:03 GuShH canananananadah
21:03 blank___ oh so you speak french?
21:03 blank___ cool i hear french are creative
21:03 GuShH He's NOT a Canuck.
21:03 robotustra_ no I speak russian
21:03 GuShH I've proof.
21:03 ShH gets the geiger cou
21:04 robotustra_ russian speaking canadian from Montreal
21:04 robotustra_ oh shit, not canadian yet
21:04 robotustra_ but hope will be soon
21:05 robotustra_ Z brush is very nice tool
21:09 robotustra_ could be useful for edit robot exterior
21:09 robotustra_ when is using with 3D printer
21:38 blank___ robotustra_, how is your ai... 4 years 11 months etc.?
21:47 rue_shop2 the jukebox has been running 24/7 since 2000
21:47 rue_shop2 I think its drive is starting to fail
21:47 rue_shop2 I suppose this would be a good app for the SSD drive I cant find a use for
21:48 rue_shop2 main music drive is 14G
21:48 blank___ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4KPWOUkbw8
21:48 blank___ this is why we need ai
21:49 ace4016 that's not why we need AI
21:49 ace4016 that will encourage more L.A. Beast moments
21:50 blank___ hey that's nothing i grew up with people more retarded.... they would bite the brains out of a crab before it would pinch their face
21:51 blank___ no videos of that on youtube...
21:51 ace4016 lol
21:52 rue_shop2 AI would prolly work out to just help darwin
21:53 blank___ we need to make an ai challenge that is intrinisically tied to jailbreaking an iphone or hacking an xbox...
21:53 rue_shop2 the jukebox was obsolete when I got it
21:53 blank___ we'd have it in a week...
21:53 rue_shop2 its a pentium 100
21:53 blank___ hey i remember when pentiums were cool
21:53 rue_shop2 its been doing jukebox for 14 years continious
21:54 rue_shop2 I'v assembled the flash chip programmer
21:54 rue_shop2 its flashing an led
21:54 rue_shop2 the led seems to be able to store 1 bit for about 50uS
21:54 rue_shop2 I guess I need a refresh controller
22:08 robotustra_ blank___: sorry to hear that you glow in such conditions
22:08 robotustra_ but I think they made their impact on your IQ
22:09 robotustra_ I'm trolling again
22:10 blank___ they = ?
22:10 blank___ such conditions = ?
22:10 robotustra_ you was surrounded with retarded people
22:10 blank___ aren't you?
22:10 robotustra_ right?
22:10 robotustra_ no I'm not
22:10 robotustra_ only clever people
22:10 robotustra_ all ingeniors and scientists
22:11 blank___ robotustra_, that's because they're stealing your ideas and giving them away.
22:11 robotustra_ ingeneers
22:11 blank___ clever huh...
22:11 robotustra_ I don't care
22:11 blank___ ingenuity of injuneers
22:11 robotustra_ anyway I'll not implement all my ideas for a whole my life
22:11 blank___ i thought you said 5 years...
22:11 blank___ now you're contradicting
22:12 robotustra_ I mean ALL ideas
22:12 robotustra_ notonly about AI
22:12 robotustra_ I will try to implement it myself
22:12 blank___ well if ai is only 5 years away why not double time it and forget the others and get it out in 2.5
22:12 robotustra_ if not, I'll do like Marvin Minsky
22:12 blank___ robotustra_, u just think that... all those clever people are just being nice to you to steal your idea
22:13 robotustra_ 5 years - it's just a prototype
22:13 robotustra_ after I'll teach it (or him?)
22:13 blank___ you won't teach it, it learns in parallel, learning from anything.
22:14 robotustra_ to some extent yes, but teaching will just boost the effect
22:14 robotustra_ there should be a selflearning part and learning part
22:16 robotustra_ nobody for instance can get what is "good" and what is "bad"
22:16 robotustra_ only teacher can tell that
22:17 GargantuaSauce oh youre in here now too eh
22:17 robotustra_ me?
22:17 GargantuaSauce no blank
22:17 robotustra_ do you know him?
22:17 GargantuaSauce just from staring at #ai
22:18 robotustra_ how clever is he?
22:18 robotustra_ or she?
22:18 GargantuaSauce approximately 0.04 danfredriksens
22:21 robotustra__ hm, web interface is bad
22:21 robotustra__ GargantuaSauce: it was non system units
22:23 robotustra_ is there any clever people in #ai?
22:24 robotustra_ GargantuaSauce: what's your progress sinse last time?
22:24 GargantuaSauce dickall, been busy with work
22:25 robotustra_ ok
22:25 robotustra_ I just programmed today a bit
22:26 robotustra_ no hardware update
22:26 robotustra_ still wait for printer
22:26 robotustra_ it's stil waiting for fulfillment
22:27 robotustra_ I guess they source parts from china
22:27 GargantuaSauce who doesn't
22:27 robotustra_ order, wait for shipment from china and then resend it to canada
22:29 robotustra_ also added some additional stuff to complete the assmbley of kit
22:30 robotustra_ blank___ : have you did anuthing in AI field?
22:30 robotustra_ anything
22:43 robotustra_ test
22:46 rue_more wtf did they do to avr-gcc?
22:46 rue_more main.c:4:37: error: lvalue required as left operand of assignment
22:46 rue_more #define SetBit(BIT, PORT) (PORT |= (1<<BIT))
22:46 rue_more ^
22:46 rue_more main.c:55:3: note: in expansion of macro 'SetBit'
22:46 rue_more SetBit(PORTA, 2);
22:46 rue_more this shoudl be fine
22:49 GargantuaSauce uh
22:49 GargantuaSauce look at the parameters
22:49 rue_more its a AMCRO
22:49 GargantuaSauce it still has parameters for you to get backwards
22:49 rue_more its not supposed ot care till its fully evaluated it
22:49 rue_more oh er
22:49 rue_more hum
22:50 e_more gives GargantuaSauce a
22:50 ace4016 lol
22:50 GargantuaSauce "wtf is the compiler doing" -> PEBKAC, 99% of the time
22:50 GargantuaSauce i catch myself doing it daily
22:51 robotustra_ RK3188 1.8GHz Quad Core
22:51 rue_more I specifically looked for theat and didn't see it
22:51 robotustra_ want to install debian on my android
22:51 GargantuaSauce i don't know much about the rockchips and their linux support
22:52 rue_more I need mroe deskspace
22:54 robotustra_ there is a support, but I'll check it later
22:54 robotustra_ build another desk
22:54 ace4016 rue_more, really? everyone that has tried to find their keys knows that when you're looking for something, it can rarely be found until you stop looking for it
22:54 ace4016 :D
22:56 robotustra_ or look at kijiji or craigslist
22:56 rue_more yea, even when its a syntax error I'm starring into the barrel of
23:01 GargantuaSauce the other day i found my android app crashing dalvik, the android jvm
23:01 GargantuaSauce i thought i was going to have to try and debug some hideous jitting bug or something
23:01 GargantuaSauce nope. stack smash in one of my native functions.
23:02 GargantuaSauce "oh, phew, i'm just a moron"
23:03 GargantuaSauce yay programming!
23:04 robotustra_ I bet you already have a function called SetBit somewhere
23:06 rue_more yep, my standard function list is
23:06 rue_more #define SetBit(BIT, PORT) (PORT |= (1<<BIT))
23:06 rue_more #define ClearBit(BIT, PORT) (PORT &= ~(1<<BIT))
23:06 rue_more #define IsHigh(BIT, PORT) (PORT & (1<<BIT)) != 0
23:06 rue_more #define IsLow(BIT, PORT) (PORT & (1<<BIT)) == 0
23:06 rue_more #define NOP() asm volatile ("nop"::)
23:06 rue_more #define ABS(a) ((a) < 0 ? -(a) : (a))
23:06 rue_more #define SIGN(x) (x)==0?0:(x)>0?1:-1
23:06 rue_more #define limit(v, l, h) ((v) > (h)) ? (h) : ((v) < (l)) ? (l) : (v)
23:06 rue_more #define inBounds(v, l, h) ((v) > (h)) ? (0) : ((v) < (l)) ? (0) : (1)
23:10 robotustra_ it's not functions - it's DEFINITIONS
23:10 robotustra_ check if you have a real function called the same way
23:12 GargantuaSauce what
23:13 robotustra_ like: int SetBit(int bit, int port) ...
23:13 Guest3494 :)
23:13 GargantuaSauce how would that produce the reported error
23:14 robotustra_ ah ok
23:15 robotustra_ #define SetBit(BIT, PORT) (PORT = PORT | (1<<BIT))
23:15 robotustra_ and remove all spaces in the elipsis
23:16 GargantuaSauce what difference does that make
23:16 GargantuaSauce i think you missed that the issue was he had the parameters backwards
23:16 robotustra_ lvalue?
23:17 GargantuaSauce yes so he had an integer literal for PORT
23:17 GargantuaSauce which is obviously not an lvalue
23:17 robotustra_ ok
23:18 robotustra_ I'm half asleep
23:18 GargantuaSauce the problem is solved, go to bed :V
23:18 GargantuaSauce and i will do the same
23:39 rue_more if I say the words "am I crazy?" I'm not really asking, I'm just looking for confirmation
23:42 GuShH rue_more: you are.
23:43 rue_more I made a nice program that colour codes .hex files
23:43 rue_more not much use but eth output is pretty
23:44 rue_more I bleive I was complainging about desk space
23:44 rue_more hmm its a 'flat space' problem
23:59 rue_more test1 is a success!, all the address bits work and their int eh right order!