#robotics Logs

Apr 25 2014

00:07 rue_house meaning, on average, it travels a radian/week
00:11 peepsalot i'm watching tubalcain videos nonstop
00:15 rue_house "whats the password!" "supercalifradgulisticexpialidoshes with two s' on the end" "f***it I aint typin that, just come in."
00:20 rue_house hmm at some point it got past my bedtime
00:25 peepsalot hey how'd yo do that
01:51 rue_house howd I do what?
01:54 peepsalot nevermind, i'm crazy
01:55 Faek You'll fit right in then
01:57 peepsalot when do you use a steady rest vs follower rest on a lathe?
02:05 rue_bed never done a project that needed either
02:25 MrCurious yeah, crazy fits here
16:47 fastflo hey, i have a serious question: when i say dh-parameters -- which convention and more important: which available toolkit comes to your mind?
16:47 fastflo (my answer would be peter corke's matlab toolbox, which is great for starters....), but do you know it? or have other resources?
16:53 fastflo paul vs. craig? anybody? :)
17:00 ace4016 apart from knowing it's kinematics, nothing else comes to mind :P
17:00 ace4016 then again, i don't do much kinematics
17:03 fastflo ok. but isn't kinematics that stuff you do within blender nowadays?
17:03 fastflo and blender does not ask for dh--parameters, i guess....
17:04 fastflo so, when one wants to provide a model of an robot you should deploy a blender-scene with joints in it?
17:05 ace4016 blender and maya, and the other 3D animation suites don't really ask for dh-parameters
17:05 ace4016 they're geared towards artist
17:06 ace4016 the create a bone chain and set up the IK solver links and that's about it. the technical artist might touch on some of the background tech and might actually mess around with that
17:08 fastflo but this channel is called "robotics" and the answer i got from you is that dh-parameters is kinematics stuff and not of further interest. blender is artist stuff. so how could i catch your attention while giving you a minimal set of information? (like dh-parameters)
17:08 fastflo openrave model of a robot?
17:08 fastflo ros urdf model?
17:08 fastflo gazebo model?
17:09 fastflo what is the state-of-the-art-robot-description nowadays?
17:09 ace4016 heh, it's not not of interest to me; i just haven't gotten around to kinematics much. my knowledge of the mechanical world trails behind the EM world
17:10 fastflo okay. you just need to get in touch with the right "other guy" who do the mechanical and software stuff :)
17:10 ace4016 i wouldn't worry too much about state of the art really...most techniques, even the state of the art kind, are 20-30 years old :P
17:10 ace4016 i do software as well :P
17:11 fastflo thats what all EM guys say :)
17:11 ace4016 are you trying to find a path to take or model to use for your project?
17:11 fastflo ?
17:11 fastflo sorry.
17:12 ace4016 or were you just looking for open discussion
17:12 fastflo i'm trying figure how to describe a robot so that the widest possible range of people can understand the description
17:13 ace4016 ah
17:13 SlaveToTheSauce i am quite sure there isn't a decent and pervasive standard
17:13 SlaveToTheSauce there's like 8 different kinematic description languages
17:13 fastflo isn't it ros ?
17:13 ace4016 most things related to robotics aren't standard :P
17:13 SlaveToTheSauce ros supports 2 or 3 different ones
17:13 fastflo so the xml urdf description common in ros' world?
17:14 fastflo ah ok, was aware of this...
17:14 SlaveToTheSauce yes that's the main one for ros i think
17:14 fastflo so i dont care and simply provide 30 year old paul-style dh-parameter :)
17:14 fastflo lossing 80% of possible robotics-interested people :)
17:15 SlaveToTheSauce assuming you're exclusively doing serial robots, sure
17:15 fastflo ok, actually i was only thinking about serial robots. (and simple prismatic joints)
17:17 SlaveToTheSauce basically you're going to have to choose a toolkit and cater your descriptions to it i think
17:17 fastflo @SlaveToTheSaure: do you think ros-fanboys can deal with a specific dh-convention?
17:18 SlaveToTheSauce if you're writing a converter from whatever format you want to deal with to urdf, sure
17:18 fastflo hehe: there is a c missing somewhere :)
17:19 fastflo ok - specific question: is there some kind of converter- or helper tu get a ros-compatible robot description just from dh-parameters?
17:20 SlaveToTheSauce i imagine there's several, i am not familiar with any specific ones though
17:20 fastflo no, i'm not planning to write a converter. i'm trying to find a fair way to describe a robot, such that the widest possible range of people can understand it
17:20 fastflo it
17:20 SlaveToTheSauce that is probably a losing battle
17:21 fastflo so i have to provide multiple redundant desciptions to be sure to reach the most people?
17:21 SlaveToTheSauce i would choose one convention and be consistent in its use
17:22 fastflo you mean "provide enough wikipedia links to describe what you're talking about" :)
17:23 SlaveToTheSauce maybe, assuming all of those wikipedia links use a consistent convention
17:23 SlaveToTheSauce (hint: they don't)
17:23 SlaveToTheSauce what exactly are you working on?
17:24 fastflo there is a european-project called EuRoC
17:24 fastflo basically an european version of the darpa robotics challange
17:24 fastflo i'm responsible for one of the 3 challanges simulation stage
17:25 fastflo and i wonder how much and which documentation i have to provide....
17:26 fastflo http://www.euroc-project.eu/ -- be warned: loudy autostarting video on that page!
17:26 SlaveToTheSauce so what is going to be used for simulation?
17:27 SlaveToTheSauce i would say use whatever formats and conventions the simulation software supports most natively
17:27 fastflo in our challange: gazebot with bullet -- heavily modified because gazebo's bullet integration is very rural
17:27 fastflo would be gazebo model (sdf, xml) format
17:28 masterpi rural gazebo :D
17:28 fastflo okay, maybe i choosed the wrong word :) but basically its true
17:29 masterpi surely you mean rudimentary
17:29 masterpi but rural is also a way to put it
17:30 fastflo my idea was to just provide dh-parameters -- its the qualification stage... people should be able to deal with it, right?
17:30 masterpi there must be some image associated to rural gazebo
17:30 fastflo :)
17:31 SlaveToTheSauce why not just have contestants provide the model portion of the sdf?
17:31 fastflo yes, would be an option
17:31 fastflo i'd go for it. and i'd also provide an openrave translation
17:31 SlaveToTheSauce they're going to have to be doing their development with the same simulation setup anyway...
17:31 fastflo and the dh-parameters. is that sufficient?
17:32 SlaveToTheSauce there is no single convention for dh parameters
17:32 SlaveToTheSauce so if you want to do that you're going to have to choose an arbitrary one and specify it completely
17:32 fastflo the paul-ones :)
17:33 SlaveToTheSauce link to his book then
17:33 fastflo so: provide the gazebo sdf of the robot, also the openrave robot description and the dh-paul-style-parameters and that should be sufficient?
17:33 fastflo yes. sure.
17:36 fastflo actually - i'm probably not asking you directly -- because all those people here are probably experts --- i'm more interested in what is needed to trigger interest in young / unexperienced people... your phd-students?
17:36 SlaveToTheSauce most active people in here are strictly hobbyists
17:38 fastflo hm. i thin kthe other guy's in the project don't relly want to have hobbyists in there at all :) (i think the project is doomed from the beginning on...)
17:39 masterpi but that would be an excellent opportunity to learn some beyond-hobby robotics
17:39 fastflo my opinion would also be: phd-students, or students for seminar-projects and the like... but that's not what "they want" :)
17:41 fastflo @masterpi: as an hobbyist - right?
17:42 masterpi yes
17:42 fastflo stage 1 is completely free and without any hassle. so i see that it might be attractive for stundents and the like... but i dont's really see how "professional roboticits" should at all consider to participate...
17:43 fastflo ok. i should stop here. i should promote the project. and not talk against it...
17:43 SlaveToTheSauce well i would start by pointing out that the challenge actually addresses a very small subset of what i would consider the field of robotics to consist
17:44 SlaveToTheSauce ie it's just covering the high-level control part right?
17:45 masterpi what would you consider to be a larger subset of robotics?
17:45 SlaveToTheSauce so as a result there's no room for a large portion of people in various engineering disciplines who would consider themselves interested in robotics
17:45 masterpi robotics-wise, you can always go down to the electron level, i.e.: http://xkcd.com/378/
17:46 fastflo challenge 2 is only considering the higher level - right - because our industry-partner is not interested in new low-level-solutions....
17:47 fastflo @SlaveToTheSauce: you're right. i think they want to push nearly-product-stage solutions
17:49 SlaveToTheSauce so the question boils down to treading the line between a kuka marketing project and an actual educational endeavor without alienating either side too hard
17:51 SlaveToTheSauce ...and honestly interfacing with the simulation/control environment sounds almost as complicated as solving the actual challenge problem :/
17:57 fastflo :)
17:57 SlaveToTheSauce so what exactly is "their" target demographic for the challenge?
17:57 fastflo i think small businesses
17:58 fastflo which then get money from the eu to promote their "new" projects
17:58 SlaveToTheSauce i think any teams capable of doing this stuff would already be in a pretty successful state
17:58 fastflo ... ah ... sorry: i mean: solutions!
17:58 fastflo ............yeeeeeeeeeeeess! :)
17:58 SlaveToTheSauce and would want to keep their 'secret sauce'
17:59 fastflo i am not in the position to question the rational behind that project :)
17:59 SlaveToTheSauce hehe
18:00 fastflo but atleast for stage 1 there is no hurdle --- its free to download for everyone to play with it --- i think....
18:14 SlaveToTheSauce wish i could participate in that...both 2 and 3 are pretty appealing to me at least
18:20 fastflo nice
18:20 fastflo me is 2:)
18:21 fastflo 3 is actually the only one which makes sense
18:21 SlaveToTheSauce hehe
18:21 SlaveToTheSauce i am working on a project in that vein already
18:21 fastflo they have a nice product and are searching for new ideas
18:21 SlaveToTheSauce but am a filthy hobbyist in any case
18:22 fastflo :) in that project: yust find an industry partner to work together with you! (...............just!!!)
18:22 fastflo no, dont bother
18:22 fastflo its a waste of time
18:22 SlaveToTheSauce well i am on the wrong side of the atlantic ocean in any case
18:23 fastflo recognize the challange, solve it for yourself and sell it for yourselfe to others....
18:23 fastflo yeah... another important point!!!
18:23 fastflo why should this project exclude non-european solutions?!
18:24 fastflo it shouldn't!
18:24 fastflo and the eu itself is not strictly against it
18:24 SlaveToTheSauce weird
18:25 fastflo but its the old clique of eu-professors who try to keep themselfes alive.... against the rest of the wolrd..... wrong subject........
18:25 fastflo ::::as i said: i should stop. i am not the one to promote that project.
18:25 fastflo the eu actually has ways to pass money across the ocean...
18:27 SlaveToTheSauce well it sort of makes sense in that manufacturing is pretty dead (or already automated) in the US, and asia has plenty of fleshrobots already
18:27 SlaveToTheSauce so why bother
18:30 SlaveToTheSauce anyway good luck with the gazebo platform thing, i couldn't even get the fucking thing to build
18:30 SlaveToTheSauce writing my own sim software as a result
18:33 fastflo i was forced into it.
18:33 fastflo we have good partial solutions with with we work everyday
18:34 fastflo but we actually never had a completely integrated simulation framework -- which is needed for stage 1
18:34 fastflo and now its my honour, to throw it together, in many many hours of stupid coding........
18:34 fastflo ...and for what?
18:35 fastflo i leave it to all you listeners
18:35 fastflo but i get paid for it
18:35 fastflo i could do whotever others wonders to menkind... but i have to provide a playground for actually-non-existant-participants :)
18:35 fastflo sorry
18:35 fastflo i meant :(
18:37 SlaveToTheSauce money in the bank, beer in the fridge
18:38 fastflo right!
18:39 fastflo i am for the beer in the fridge!
18:39 fastflo and as long as there are people like "you" guy's i am not alone :)
18:42 SlaveToTheSauce i gotta run but i should probably show you where i actually am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXvZWTZWN8A
18:42 SlaveToTheSauce gonna improve the platform a bit more and then do vision SLAM and autonomous navigation
18:43 fastflo i should also show something
18:43 fastflo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tVilONTMfw
18:43 fastflo its quite old, 4 or years,,,
18:44 fastflo sorry. sound in german
18:44 fastflo and the PR crew didn't understand the meaning of "aspect-ratio"
18:44 fastflo no-no-no
18:45 fastflo its a bed example
18:46 fastflo yeah. i was searching ... then i recognized: i dont publish untiul i am satisfied ... so i have nothing to show :(
18:47 fastflo and i will never make my phd :(
18:48 fastflo hope to meet you on some conference i can afford ... policy is: no paper: no conference - so i am seldom on conferences :(
19:19 Tom_1 Hello
19:19 Tom_1 Tom_itx: hello
19:24 blockh34d anyone do much here with 3d printed pneumatic control valves/parts?
19:24 blockh34d i think it could be done, but i wonder if you could really 3d print 100% of the valves/switches etc
19:26 blockh34d so i think maybe theres some other material involved, maybe sheets of nylon or plexi/alum, and you cut those into set width strips, squares etc... drill/etch the and drop them into the rest of the assembly which would be 3d printed and possibly requiring a gasket when you screw it together
19:28 blockh34d then you attach somesort of modular electronic device, like some fairly standard linear actuator or servo/solonoid etc, and have those drive the moving parts of the 3d print
19:41 fastflo hm @blockh: we enjoy some different 3d printerss at work, and i have to say - that i don't really see how it could be used to 100% completely generate valves and switches.
19:41 fastflo i mean its nice what you can do
19:41 fastflo but pneumatic valves
19:41 fastflo isbelow the 0.1 mm what common 3d printes provider
19:42 blockh34d yeah i agree so i think maybe we need some 'tricks' to smooth it out until tech is up to speed
19:42 blockh34d namely some sort of custom coating
19:42 fastflo pneumatics usually need to have a well defined "pressure-environment"
19:42 blockh34d like rubber roof paint, saturating each layer with it between layers
19:43 fastflo maybe
19:43 blockh34d or using drop in parts for some certain parts of operation , like the ball of a ball valve etc
19:43 blockh34d so we don't 3d print 100% of it, but what wasnt 3d printed was easy to get
19:44 blockh34d i want cheap pneumatics
19:44 blockh34d its so expensive
19:44 blockh34d any other ideas for that? maybe i'm reinventing wheels others already fixed up nicely?
19:48 fastflo i don't think you can do pneumatics with commercially available 3d-printers
19:48 fastflo its not that slode to the needed clearances
19:48 blockh34d yah it really sounds unlikely with current state of things
19:48 fastflo close
19:48 blockh34d well i'll probably try anyways
19:49 blockh34d and se if i can get a temp fix hacked together
19:49 fastflo its about quantisation!
19:49 blockh34d ?
19:49 fastflo if you can deal with the limits of quantisation - you might be able to meet pneumatic constraints!
19:50 blockh34d i have to go pick up take out
19:50 blockh34d but i want to know more
19:50 blockh34d like if i make things big and chunky maybe its ok?
19:50 fastflo simple 3d-printers have a minimal "structure size"
19:50 fastflo they can'T go smaller
19:50 fastflo than like 0.1 mm
19:51 masterpi what kind of valves do you need?
19:51 masterpi to reduce leakage you will need very tight tolerances
19:51 masterpi and 3d printers are crap for that, especially for cylinder-shaped stuff
19:51 masterpi a lathe is better for that
19:53 masterpi if you increase the size, you will need a bigger pump
19:53 masterpi so --- it's possible, but probably not as cheap as you think
20:01 masterpi of course, if you have something like this : http://www.eos.info/systems_solutions/metal/systems_equipment/eosint_m280
20:02 masterpi ..you could print a valve out of titanium
20:02 masterpi or a rocket engine nozzle for that matter
20:05 fastflo :)
20:08 masterpi event though the minimum feature size is 50 um, which is probably too large for a pneumatic valve
20:08 masterpi so you would need to bore that thing anyway
20:16 blockh34d hmm well i guess momentary on/off swtiches for one
20:16 masterpi that could be doable
20:16 blockh34d toggle switches, maybe ones that emulate dual inlet/outlet per switch (double pole single throw?)
20:16 masterpi a proportional valve would be more difficult
20:16 blockh34d and input / output selectors, line one in, four out, etc
20:16 GuShH_ masterpi: you can bore on a mill too, ya know :p
20:16 blockh34d yeah i imagine so
20:17 blockh34d i really only need on/off control though
20:17 masterpi i don't know anything
20:17 masterpi :)
20:17 blockh34d nice
20:17 blockh34d ignorance is the true path to wisdom
20:17 blockh34d i like to consider the enormity of what i don't know, every day
20:17 masterpi the point was --- you can print stuff, but you'll probably also need a mill
20:18 blockh34d hmm seems like it eh
20:18 masterpi at this point in life i'm only guessing and shooting blindly
20:18 blockh34d what about printing drop in replacement parts
20:18 masterpi well it depends on the mechanical design of the hing
20:18 blockh34d for toher better made stuff
20:18 blockh34d so it starts as something from Lowes, but then you gut it and replace part of it with something printed
20:18 blockh34d and that makes it digitally addressable
20:18 masterpi for 3d printed valves you'd probably need a different design than the classical ones
20:19 blockh34d i bet
20:19 blockh34d i picture something with a lot of flat plates
20:19 blockh34d no curves etc
20:19 blockh34d i've made a lot of these things already with plexiglass
20:19 blockh34d just glued /bolted together
20:19 blockh34d actually works pretty good
20:20 GuShH_ flat is bad for high pressure
20:20 blockh34d oh? what happens? explosive decompression?
20:20 GuShH_ stress.
20:20 blockh34d hmm duly noted thanks
20:21 blockh34d maybe use the drop in parts like i described and make sure they're round then
20:21 blockh34d like if you have some of this that starts as 1/2" steel stock
20:21 blockh34d and you drill it out etc
20:22 blockh34d i keep thinking sheets of rubber could be involved somehow
20:23 blockh34d same stuff as gasket seals i guess
20:23 GuShH_ gaskets blow, multiple o-rings are often used, among other types of seals
20:23 blockh34d oh yah it i'm 3d printing that'll be a lot easier
20:24 masterpi maybe consider printing a hydraulic valve :D
20:25 blockh34d yes when i get a 3d printer
20:25 blockh34d soon
20:25 blockh34d its already basically paid for i just need to go put my order in
20:25 blockh34d i figure i'll get a prusa 8" i3
20:26 blockh34d with the vslot extrusion kit
20:26 GuShH_ it's sadly not the right tool, but go ahead :/
20:26 blockh34d what would you suggest? a mill?
20:27 GuShH_ I don't know what your goal is.
20:27 GuShH_ but it's not going to be cheap
20:27 blockh34d that seems certain right
20:28 blockh34d its a shame cause the core of the things, highly pressurized kevlar tubing... that's surprisingly affordable
20:28 blockh34d but all the valves to turn that into a functional motion-assist suit
20:28 blockh34d ugh
20:29 blockh34d i think by the time i'm done i' going to look like the guy from crysis
20:29 GuShH_ what makes you think that much pressure is required?
20:29 blockh34d it probably isnt
20:29 GuShH_ for storage sure, but operationally speaking you always reduce.
20:29 blockh34d i can use 150psi to move 8lbs 2" with a fiber the size of a pencil
20:30 blockh34d so if i could run that 30x pressure that'd be about 250lbs from one fiber
20:30 blockh34d thats getting into the superhuman realm, imo
20:30 blockh34d especially witha suit covered in these
20:30 blockh34d then if you put armor plates over this tubeskin, that plate has got awesome shock absorbers
20:31 blockh34d i bet people could beat you with a bat and you'd barely notice
20:31 GuShH_ 4500 PSI in flexible tubing, all over your body... I'd rather not.
20:31 blockh34d oh don't worry i just want to jump way high in the air with it
20:31 masterpi are you building a robotic gimp suit?
20:31 blockh34d jump boots
20:31 blockh34d but they require such a supported spine
20:31 blockh34d might as well be a whole suit
20:32 GuShH_ might not be the only high involved :/
20:32 blockh34d thats after dinner
20:32 GuShH_ lol
20:32 blockh34d for now, pad thai
20:32 blockh34d wouldnt it be awesome though?
20:32 blockh34d bullet/stab/smash/fire proof?
20:32 blockh34d and super strong?
20:33 blockh34d its not so far off the realm of what hobbyists can make at home out of basic shit
20:33 blockh34d all we realyl need is cheap fittings and some sort of portable HP generator
20:33 GuShH_ I think it might be
20:33 blockh34d yes maybe
20:33 blockh34d but i think my plan is workable so i'm going to try it out, see how far i can get with it
20:33 GuShH_ there's no such thing as far as I'm aware, at those high pressures you're talking at screw pumps or better, which are very expensive and massive.
20:34 GuShH_ only hydraulic stuff, but low volume.
20:34 GuShH_ for instance gas powered hydraulic pumps for jaws of life, etc.
20:34 blockh34d ayi saw a 4 stage compressor thats portable and puts out 5000 psi on eby
20:34 GuShH_ so that's why stored energy has always been used in jetpacks and whatnot.
20:34 blockh34d it was for scuba/paintball rechargin
20:35 GuShH_ they're low volume
20:35 blockh34d right i figure
20:35 GuShH_ very low, such as air pumps for PCP rifles
20:35 blockh34d i'm ok with low volume
20:35 blockh34d i think low volume is ok for me
20:35 blockh34d since i don't anticipate really needing the crazy high pressure that often
20:35 blockh34d so who cares if it takes 2 days to charge
20:35 GuShH_ you'll either come up with something fun, or kill yourself against the pavement.
20:35 blockh34d charge up enough for 5 seconds of output
20:35 blockh34d :)
20:36 blockh34d i want an operation thats like, jump up in the air, inflate wings, glide down
20:36 blockh34d i think landing boots are unrealistic for the heights i'd like to jump
20:36 GuShH_ Just stay home and drink redbull.
20:37 masterpi you're probably thinking of an antigravity device
20:37 blockh34d haha play some xbox i'll live longer right
20:37 masterpi not sure if you can 3d print that
20:37 blockh34d i think that requires high voltage mercury pools spun in a donut shape
20:37 GuShH_ masterpi: sounds more like a jetpack to me, with wings.
20:37 blockh34d i dontt know why
20:37 blockh34d it just sounds right
20:37 GuShH_ except he wants the power to thrust from the feet, which is silly
20:38 blockh34d maybe i like my feet smashed into litle pieces though
20:38 GuShH_ since it would throw you around like a piece of shit. you have to be near your center of gravity
20:38 blockh34d its genius if so
20:38 masterpi yes, you want the thrust to be shooting from your ass, not your feet :)
20:38 blockh34d i'm so ninja though
20:38 blockh34d i think i want it from my feet
20:38 masterpi watched too much iron man, eh?
20:38 blockh34d so i can do insane shit like launch horizontall off walls
20:38 blockh34d maybe
20:39 ShH_ wonders how heavy blockh34
20:39 blockh34d about 170lbs
20:39 blockh34d 5'10
20:39 GuShH_ ironman movies are terrible IMO.
20:39 blockh34d first one was ok
20:39 GuShH_ I couldn't even watch the last one, too much crap.
20:39 blockh34d second was passable
20:39 blockh34d 3rd was just horrid
20:39 masterpi i couldn't even watch the first half of the first movie
20:39 GuShH_ and they're horribly made.
20:39 blockh34d unwatchably bad
20:39 blockh34d but whats his face is good
20:39 blockh34d i gotta give him that
20:40 blockh34d if theres a problem, its not downey
20:40 GuShH_ hollypoop doesn't know when to stop.
20:40 GuShH_ they'll milk the same old crap until they die.
20:40 blockh34d all propoganda imo
20:40 blockh34d i have a much cooler suit designed
20:41 blockh34d makes ironman suit look like shiny overpriced shit
20:41 GuShH_ it's fictional so... irrelevant, about price.
20:41 blockh34d only requires a little bit of magic unicorn dust now
20:41 blockh34d and soon even less
20:41 blockh34d well thats the thing
20:41 blockh34d i want us all to have this
20:41 blockh34d so price is very relevant to me with all this, even if i was rich it still would be
20:41 GuShH_ I'd rather own a 50 cal rifle and a permit to shoot anyone I want.
20:42 GuShH_ no questions asked, trespassing? boom.
20:42 GuShH_ pink dust.
20:42 blockh34d but if my suit lets me remote control an ornithopter swarm of flying bombs up to 5 miles away, what good was your gun?
20:42 blockh34d warfare is evolving
20:42 blockh34d guns are the new catapult
20:42 GuShH_ You can't weaponize flying objects in your country
20:42 GuShH_ or in most countries
20:42 GuShH_ it's illegal.
20:43 GuShH_ I'm still waiting for some retard to strap molotov cocktails onto their quadcopters and do something stupid
20:43 blockh34d i should keep that in mind
20:43 blockh34d cause i'm that guy
20:43 blockh34d no real harm in mind either
20:43 blockh34d i just like being a redneck
20:43 GuShH_ there's a reason civilian GPS sucks...
20:43 blockh34d and blowing stuff up is in our genes
20:44 GuShH_ so crazy fucks won't weaponize it.
20:44 blockh34d IMU's remove the relevance of GPS precision
20:44 blockh34d even low precision, low updategps is still enough for IMU to extract constant positional data from
20:45 blockh34d by measuring/tracking its inertia etc
20:45 GuShH_ not up to military standards, but they've got their toys.
20:45 GuShH_ anyway, highly illegal.
20:45 blockh34d ok well i wont do taht then
20:45 blockh34d i am not trying to break any laws
20:45 GuShH_ do what you please
20:45 blockh34d well seriously i'm not trying to break any laws
20:46 blockh34d i just want to research weapons and armor, as a civilian, for other civilians
20:46 blockh34d we have the right to bear arms, why do they have to be old/shitty arms?
20:46 masterpi imu's give you faster dynamics, not global accuracy
20:46 blockh34d right but i mean you have them calibrate off gps
20:46 masterpi gps is 10 Hz, whereas imu is e.g. 1 kHz
20:47 blockh34d then update themselves
20:47 blockh34d right
20:47 masterpi for better accuracy you need sbas
20:47 masterpi or dgps
20:47 blockh34d i don't know that one
20:47 blockh34d i heard china is rolling out a new system
20:47 masterpi or any other way to get the amospheric disturbance out of the equations
20:47 blockh34d more precise than what US mil with release
20:47 blockh34d with/will
20:48 masterpi well the problem with all gnss systems is that they're based on time of flight of the electromagnetic signal
20:48 masterpi and the speed of light changes in clouds
20:49 masterpi also , the distance traveled changes if you have bounces in the surrounding environment
20:49 masterpi so you have to cancel these factors out somehow
20:49 blockh34d what if stereoscopic cameras could derive a 3d mesh from the current view
20:49 blockh34d and that mesh could then be fit into the known topography db
20:50 blockh34d to derive a more specific location than gps could provide
20:50 masterpi there are stations e.g. around europe, that measure the atmospheric delay and broadcast the correction signal
20:50 blockh34d or operate without gps
20:50 masterpi this is sbas, and you need a compatible receiver
20:50 masterpi a different method is dgps, where you have a fixed gps receiver and a mobile one
20:50 masterpi well gps is globally accurate, but not precise
20:50 masterpi if you want more precision, you can use vision methods
20:51 blockh34d seems like it cuold sometimes be effective
20:51 masterpi however, these are still in research labs; not yet comercially available :)
20:51 blockh34d depending on topography and known level of detail
20:51 masterpi gps has problems in (urban) canyons where you can have multiple bounces of a single signal
20:52 masterpi with the normally available civil gps stuff you can get a precision of a couple centimeters (fused with an imu)
20:53 blockh34d good enough for most purposes
20:54 blockh34d they can't just expect to forever limit our technology because they're scare of the implications
20:54 blockh34d that will only empower those willing to ignore that decision
20:54 blockh34d like if china rolls out their gps and its more precise and typically cheaper to implement or uses less power etc... bad for our industry in a very real way
20:55 blockh34d the dangers of giving the civilians military grade gear are only imagined, so far, though
20:55 masterpi so, if you do rtk (tightly coupled integration), you can get 2cm : http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/high-end-inertial-systems-overview
20:55 masterpi with sbas you get 10 cm
20:55 masterpi provided you have good satellite coverage
20:55 blockh34d what if we got invaded and our military wasnt good enough, so civilians made up the difference
20:55 masterpi however, if you're in an urban environment, that is not a given.
20:55 blockh34d wouldnt be the first time isnt happened
20:56 blockh34d minute men etc
20:56 masterpi well, the iranians got the us drone by jamming/faking the gps signal
20:56 masterpi so good luck with that
20:56 blockh34d i think maybe an all optic based system
20:56 blockh34d that can pilot itself with no other signals
20:56 masterpi there's a reason why icbm's don't use gps, but fiber optic gyros and very precise accelerometers
20:56 masterpi which you can't buy because of itar
20:57 blockh34d am i allowed to make a wearable smoke screen?
20:57 blockh34d or do they consider that some sort of explosive device?
20:57 masterpi well, you see, if you give everyone the same abilities as you do, you lose the military advantage, because the potential enemy has the same technology
20:58 masterpi but this is very philosophical
20:58 blockh34d i'm ok wih that
20:58 blockh34d i don't want me to win
20:58 blockh34d i want us to win
20:58 masterpi you wouldn't be if you were on the receiving end :)
20:58 blockh34d together we're stronger than i could ever be, on either end
20:58 blockh34d this is why i've decided to call this research group 'Open Arms'
20:59 blockh34d and its fundamental founding principal is transparency
20:59 masterpi "you can't hug your kids with nuclear arms"
20:59 blockh34d "When adversity comes knocking, greet it with Open Arms"
21:00 blockh34d i want us to be so strong we require neither police nor military
21:00 masterpi who is "us" ?
21:00 blockh34d and unless we're actively being invaded, or there is wide spread riots, neither group exists
21:00 blockh34d America
21:01 blockh34d Earth
21:01 blockh34d first America, then Earth
21:02 masterpi good luck with that :)
21:02 blockh34d just keeping it small for now
21:02 masterpi i'll just say that history is a bitch
21:02 blockh34d eventually i have my sights set on immortality
21:02 blockh34d and infinite space
21:02 masterpi space is infinite
21:02 blockh34d for now, Earth
21:02 masterpi for all practical intents and purposes
21:02 blockh34d yes
21:03 blockh34d but not for us
21:03 blockh34d cause we're on this stinking mudball
21:03 blockh34d surrounded by violent idiots
21:03 blockh34d everyone conning each other out of some more dead tree
21:03 blockh34d an insulting waste of our brief spark of life
21:03 masterpi meh. that's life.
21:03 blockh34d for now
21:04 masterpi the purpose of life is to kill other life and breed
21:04 GuShH_ rue_house: cool idea http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/height_adjust/height_gage.htm
21:04 masterpi recycle matter and energy
21:04 blockh34d why do we need to kill other life?
21:04 masterpi we don't, but animals do
21:04 blockh34d i realize we probably need to breed
21:04 masterpi and we're a subset of animals
21:05 masterpi in effect
21:05 blockh34d doesnt mean we have to choose to act like the
21:05 blockh34d them
21:05 masterpi you're just here to increase the entropy of the universe
21:05 masterpi well you need to eat
21:05 blockh34d that we can choose otherwise is waht seperates us from them
21:05 masterpi and that act alone is killing something else to get your nutrients
21:05 masterpi unless you want to eat rocks
21:05 blockh34d yes and walking kills the grass
21:05 masterpi see?
21:05 blockh34d and the bacteria beneath our feet
21:05 GuShH_ masterpi: but rocks have feelings
21:05 nanogru hello all
21:05 blockh34d but these are not decisions
21:06 blockh34d the decision to kill is not the same as the need to eat
21:06 GuShH_ hi nanogru
21:06 masterpi hi nano
21:06 nanogru hi gushh and masterpi
21:06 nanogru this is nice
21:06 masterpi well whether it's a decision doesn't really matter if the end effect is the same :)
21:07 blockh34d i think it matters if we want to cahnge
21:07 GuShH_ hunting for food is fine, for sport... not so much
21:07 blockh34d first we have to recognize we can change
21:07 blockh34d to say its just part of our nature is a crutch designed to take the weight of that decision off our shoulders
21:08 nanogru yes, but at the same time evolutionary wise it makes sense that our predesesors who were more likely to kill animals were more likely to survive and reproduce
21:08 GuShH_ blockh34d: so, someone breaks into your place, what do you do?
21:08 blockh34d but its understandable... and it could be true too
21:08 nanogru therefore it really is in our nature
21:08 nanogru although still not a crutch
21:08 blockh34d maybe it is our nature
21:08 masterpi i'm not talking about humans, but life in general
21:08 masterpi life as in living beings -- anything with a metabolism
21:08 blockh34d but i have to feel its worthy to struggle against that compulsion
21:08 nanogru I'm pretty sure that argument applies to all life EXCEPT humans
21:08 blockh34d GuShH_: i dunno, its happened
21:09 masterpi unless they live in an anabolic environment and feed off environmental radioactivity
21:09 masterpi now that's something i can support!
21:09 nanogru or are trees
21:09 nanogru trees are cool
21:09 GuShH_ go hug 'em!
21:09 nanogru out of curiosity (new to IRC) why are we discussing this in the #robotics channel?
21:09 GuShH_ because nobody is talking about robotics
21:10 nanogru valid point
21:10 nanogru robots are cool
21:10 masterpi i'm pretty sure trees are bloodlusty, too :)
21:10 blockh34d i'm indirectly referring to the moral implications of using robots to eclipse all previous known military methods
21:10 GuShH_ some plants are
21:10 blockh34d buts its a pretty weak link
21:10 GuShH_ parasitic plants...
21:10 masterpi so, what should robots do?
21:10 blockh34d i meant robotics
21:10 blockh34d but yeah robots too
21:10 nanogru go vroooooooommm
21:10 GuShH_ they should make me a sammich.
21:10 masterpi eat people to gain their courage?
21:11 blockh34d self replicate
21:11 blockh34d out of junk
21:11 blockh34d hunt down military gear
21:11 masterpi junk in -- junk out
21:11 nanogru no eat people's brains and use them as extra h-bridges and control them over i2c
21:11 blockh34d and dismantle it into more junk bots
21:11 GuShH_ I got just the video for you
21:11 blockh34d yes what register to use for human brains?!?
21:11 nanogru i dunno
21:12 nanogru I wonder if you would have issues with i2c headers doing multiple different brains
21:12 masterpi i2c is crap
21:12 blockh34d protocal says it should be ok i believe
21:12 blockh34d as long as those brains have their own memory space
21:12 GuShH_ "Rick and Morty Season 1 Episode 2"
21:12 blockh34d are the brains threadsafe?
21:12 nanogru depends
21:12 nanogru do the brains run java?
21:12 nanogru *secretly hoping the brains run java*
21:12 blockh34d lol
21:13 masterpi weirdly, java enhances brain activity
21:13 blockh34d mines busy punching the monkey
21:13 nanogru they definitely either run java or python
21:13 ShH_ goes back to watching a documentary on MUSHR
21:13 blockh34d everything runs python
21:13 masterpi but only the correct dosage
21:13 nanogru except for really really stupid people, they run javascript
21:13 blockh34d i'm on a raspberry pi and it runs two kinds of python stock
21:13 blockh34d hey
21:13 nanogru sowwy
21:13 nanogru that was mean
21:13 blockh34d ECMA Script
21:13 nanogru )
21:13 blockh34d we're disowning the racist guy
21:13 blockh34d fk him and javascript
21:13 blockh34d its ECMAScript now
21:14 masterpi i think the used tool is irrelevant, the algorithms are important.
21:14 nanogru yeah
21:14 blockh34d well some tools allow local file access, some dont
21:14 masterpi you're not using forth anymore, but you use algorithms devised in the 1960s.
21:14 blockh34d its helps
21:14 nanogru atwood's law: everything that can run javascript will run javascript
21:14 masterpi protocols, buses and programming languages are just details
21:14 nanogru no, but it's helpful to be able to use and understand more complex data types
21:15 nanogru object oriented programming, casting, etc
21:15 blockh34d javascript can cast
21:15 blockh34d it casts everything to the OMNITYPE
21:15 nanogru ...
21:15 blockh34d the one type to rule them all
21:15 nanogru that does not count, it simply does not count
21:15 blockh34d lol
21:15 blockh34d of course
21:16 masterpi we're just piling layers of abstraction
21:16 nanogru so whatchya all doing
21:16 nanogru robotics wise
21:16 masterpi if js were at least a good abstraction
21:16 blockh34d i got some robo fingers here
21:16 nanogru cool
21:16 nanogru segway for me
21:16 blockh34d maybe i'll finally hook em to a drive system
21:16 blockh34d hey i was wondring
21:16 blockh34d think someone could make segway boots?
21:16 nanogru hmmm
21:16 blockh34d like boots that have a wheel in the toe
21:16 blockh34d and otherwise its like segways?
21:16 nanogru for some strange reason I immediaely understood what you were reffering to
21:17 nanogru I have no idea
21:17 blockh34d except its Anime fast, in my mind
21:17 blockh34d and involves rocket launchers
21:17 nanogru the motors would have to be really tiny and really powerfull
21:17 blockh34d yah like air motors
21:17 blockh34d run off magic unicorns
21:17 blockh34d 5000 psi
21:17 nanogru magic unicorns discharge rate is too low, you need 1mil sla batteries in parallel
21:18 blockh34d lol
21:18 blockh34d i use a leprechaun buffer
21:18 nanogru yeah those are pretty efficient
21:18 blockh34d bridged across the unicorns horn
21:18 nanogru sure you're not gonna get a null POINTer exception?
21:18 nanogru wow that pun was bad
21:18 blockh34d lol
21:18 blockh34d its ok
21:18 blockh34d its irc
21:19 nanogru I like this place
21:19 nanogru this place is nice
21:19 blockh34d yes, our own little corner of sanity
21:19 blockh34d in a crazy world
21:19 nanogru )
21:19 nanogru tiny bit creepy but still nice
21:20 blockh34d i think if imake some super suit stuff i'm going to make robohand kid a badass robotic hand
21:20 blockh34d heard of robohand kid?
21:20 nanogru nope
21:20 blockh34d he had a birth aspect that has him with a partially developed hand
21:20 nanogru always been interested in prosthetics though, seems like a really cool field
21:20 blockh34d its not got all the normal fingers/digits etc
21:20 blockh34d so some industrious guy 3d printed him a new hand
21:20 blockh34d from some modified hand models off thingiverse
21:20 nanogru i hope he didn't charge the kid
21:20 blockh34d oh no of course
21:21 blockh34d they used the library printer
21:21 blockh34d all volunteer stuff
21:21 blockh34d so the kid just loves it
21:21 blockh34d but of course, that hand is doomed
21:21 nanogru THEIR LIBRARY HAS A 3D PRINTER HOLY CRAP WHERE IS THIS MAGICAL LAND
21:21 blockh34d just a question of time
21:21 blockh34d haha
21:21 blockh34d yah lots of them do no
21:21 blockh34d do now
21:21 nanogru yeahs
21:21 blockh34d so i think wouldnt it be cool if for the rest of this kid/guys life... strangers are giving him bigger and badder robotic hands
21:22 blockh34d as we develop our skills
21:22 blockh34d we give our prototypes to this guy
21:22 blockh34d etc
21:22 nanogru ok can I ask you a question about your hand thingy
21:22 blockh34d i like the sound of that even if its a little idealistic/unrealistic
21:22 blockh34d k
21:22 nanogru ok
21:22 nanogru so my understanding is that you have some sort of tendon type thingy that gets pulled back contracting the hand
21:23 nanogru but how does it go in the other direction?
21:23 nanogru flex back up?
21:23 blockh34d yes the muscle of it is in your forearm
21:23 blockh34d you have two muscles per motion
21:23 nanogru oh
21:23 blockh34d one on either side
21:23 blockh34d and when one contracts, the other relaxes
21:23 blockh34d they always work in unison like that
21:23 nanogru yes in biology but is that how you do that in your hand?
21:23 blockh34d yes very similar
21:24 blockh34d two cables per finger
21:24 nanogru cool
21:24 blockh34d you pull one, it opens, youpull the the other, it closes
21:24 blockh34d they can be connected
21:24 nanogru I always thought it was a rubber band or something on the top providing tension
21:24 blockh34d then if you rotate a wheel that they are attached too, that works too
21:24 masterpi it's called antagonistic drive
21:24 nanogru once made a 3d model of a hand, unfortunatley no 3d printer so could not continue
21:24 nanogru it's cool that you're mimicking evolution for the hand
21:24 blockh34d yah i think you'd have to be very specific about how you modelled it too
21:25 blockh34d for inside out
21:25 blockh34d oh thanks i'm trying to do that now with the shoulder joint
21:25 blockh34d so tricky
21:25 nanogru oh god
21:25 nanogru ball joints
21:25 blockh34d i think maybe if the robotic joint was directly above the real one
21:25 blockh34d and also a ball joint
21:25 masterpi not the hand in question, but see fig. 4 of http://brml.org/uploads/tx_sibibtex/Grebenstein_The_DLR_hand_arm_system_2011.pdf
21:25 nanogru i reccomend just cheating and putting 2 servos on different axes to acheive the same effect
21:26 blockh34d then the main bicep connecter hada way to shrink/grow a little bit based on where your arm is, to compensate for how the balljoints are not centered
21:26 nanogru had a project where I did it, obviously not the same but similiar movements
21:26 blockh34d i want something that can be used along side an actual shoulder though
21:26 blockh34d like ou wear this over your real shoulder etc
21:26 blockh34d ideally it should be totally enclosed too
21:26 blockh34d bullet/fire/godzilla proof
21:26 blockh34d and free
21:27 nanogru oh
21:27 nanogru OH
21:27 nanogru that is really really cool
21:27 nanogru whoa
21:27 blockh34d so i'm looking at high pressure kevlar tubes
21:27 blockh34d with kevlar lined steel plates over the tube skin
21:27 nanogru kevlar is awesome
21:27 masterpi isn't DEKA developing prosthetics like that
21:27 blockh34d so the tubes also can be used like motion assist
21:28 blockh34d i don't know deka
21:28 nanogru you could try 3d printing in carbon fiber, that would provide awesome strength
21:28 blockh34d but it wouldnt surprise me
21:28 masterpi http://www.dekaresearch.com/deka_arm.shtml
21:28 nanogru hmmm
21:28 blockh34d oh yah maybe that's a good way to approach 3d printed pneumatics
21:28 blockh34d which seems like a tricky idea
21:28 blockh34d hey thanks
21:29 nanogru THEY NAMED IT LUKE
21:29 nanogru yay that makes me happy
21:29 masterpi yes, the Luke Arm
21:29 blockh34d that armis bad ass
21:29 masterpi i think it was on colber report a couple years back
21:29 nanogru wow
21:29 blockh34d this is what 3d printers should be doing
21:29 blockh34d printing out people new lost limbs
21:30 nanogru who was that hiker guy who built himself a better prosthetic leg after an accident
21:30 masterpi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqg1Hu0PMG0
21:30 nanogru felix something
21:30 blockh34d or unique designed solutions to their non-standard situations
21:30 masterpi sorry i think it was the wrong link
21:30 blockh34d if i ever lost my hands i would definately make new ones
21:30 blockh34d it used to be iw orred about it
21:30 blockh34d now i'm sure if i had to i could do that without hands
21:31 nanogru I've seriously fantasized about losing my hands in an accident and having insurance cover awesome prosthetics
21:31 blockh34d we should all take 3d scans now
21:31 blockh34d and routinely
21:31 blockh34d of ourselves i mean
21:31 nanogru and them modding them to be super strong and have sensors and control stuff with them and rule the universe but that's unrelated so hiiiii
21:31 masterpi http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-04/dean-kamen-demos-robotic-luke-arm-colbert-report
21:31 blockh34d so if theres an accident we can have a form to reference for replacement appendage housings
21:31 nanogru interesting concept
21:32 blockh34d even if the housing was just more accurate, it would give people relief
21:32 nanogru that could be applied to modeling organs for printing replacements in the future
21:32 nanogru and I'm sure we'll easily be able to print bone
21:32 blockh34d studies have shown even the appearance of the normalacy the victims may miss is enough to bring substantial comfort
21:32 blockh34d yes we can already print living liver
21:32 blockh34d out of stemcells harvested from the recipient
21:33 nanogru well that's a whole other issue :(
21:33 blockh34d yes soon i hope we can print out replacement organs for much of our body
21:33 blockh34d and use robotics to install them
21:33 blockh34d but theres also advances in growing your own organ in your stomach
21:33 nanogru well they already do that
21:33 nanogru i mean robot surgeons
21:33 blockh34d yes
21:33 blockh34d but i mean do it at home
21:34 blockh34d on a budget
21:34 blockh34d cheap etc
21:34 nanogru that made me laugh
21:34 blockh34d i bet
21:34 nanogru "grow your own organs on a budget with the new makerbot flesh"
21:34 blockh34d like home dentistry kit right
21:34 blockh34d lol
21:34 blockh34d it really sounds absurd
21:34 blockh34d but thats whats coming
21:34 blockh34d and it will be like immortality
21:34 blockh34d we'll live much longer, instantly
21:34 blockh34d 300 years instead of 100
21:34 nanogru and then the singularity
21:35 nanogru but that's a software problem
21:35 blockh34d and in those 300 years, we'll learn how to make nanobots that can fix the things we can't print out
21:35 blockh34d like our brain
21:35 blockh34d and they'll let us live even longer
21:35 blockh34d 1000 years
21:35 blockh34d we could be at the doorway to immortality
21:35 nanogru well there's natural cell decay
21:35 blockh34d yes but we regrow cells at an astonishing rate
21:36 nanogru not sure how we could intervene on a cellular level without huge advantages in nanotechnology
21:36 blockh34d if cerain organs could be made new, the rest remakes itself all the time anwyays
21:36 nanogru i think we would need to simulate a sort of cancer
21:36 blockh34d yes
21:36 blockh34d a benevolent cancer
21:36 nanogru essentially rewrite the dna of a single cell and induce it to reproduce
21:36 blockh34d that left you upgraded
21:36 nanogru EXACTLY
21:36 blockh34d i think about the same sometiems
21:36 nanogru I wonder if that's already a thing
21:37 blockh34d like if i made a virus that left you unable to enjoy oxycontin
21:37 blockh34d or heroin, or crack
21:37 blockh34d and it just spread like a plague
21:37 nanogru that would be fantastic
21:37 blockh34d and then there were no more junkies, anywhere
21:37 nanogru the real key to that is the ability to understand dna enough to know how to make those modifications
21:37 nanogru because we already could do them through electropheresis and other stuff in a bio lab
21:38 nanogru and place them in the human body to reproduce
21:38 blockh34d yes in the future i expect exactl that process could be pretty straight forward
21:38 blockh34d like getting your sstomach stapled is today
21:38 nanogru yep
21:38 nanogru coincidentially there was recently a huge breakthrough in that area
21:38 nanogru http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/revealed-scientists-edit-dna-to-correct-adult-genes-and-cure-diseases-9273555.html
21:39 blockh34d yeah technology is amazing
21:39 nanogru essentially exactly what we just described was published 3 days ago
21:39 blockh34d thats why i think we need to focus all of it at health research now
21:39 nanogru yep
21:39 blockh34d because if we live longer, all other technoolgy will explode
21:39 blockh34d because our best minds will live long enough to get around to all the things they want to do
21:40 blockh34d and we'll all benefit from that
21:40 nanogru well I think mechanical design and sciences are way ahead of biotechnology and computer science, two things that are incredibly important to sustain us as a population
21:40 nanogru biotechnology for health and computer science for artificial intelligence and the singularity
21:40 blockh34d yeah our software really could be a lot better
21:40 masterpi just curios... how old are you guys?
21:40 blockh34d 38
21:40 masterpi *curious
21:40 nanogru 8 bananas old
21:40 nanogru uni
21:41 masterpi so you must be smoking some good weed to have all these amazing ideas :)
21:41 nanogru thanks
21:41 blockh34d oh i'm packing some up right now
21:41 nanogru ideas or weed
21:41 blockh34d ja's gift
21:42 blockh34d weed
21:42 nanogru ha
21:42 blockh34d it helps me out a lot
21:42 nanogru dont forget to pack ideas
21:42 nanogru ideas are cool
21:42 blockh34d nono i don't pack them
21:42 blockh34d they want to be free
21:42 masterpi http://sivers.org/multiply
21:42 ockh34d lets his ideas run around unlea
21:42 nanogru you let them go without registering with Creative Commons?
21:43 nanogru dumbass
21:43 nanogru )
21:43 blockh34d lol
21:43 blockh34d yep, copyleft
21:43 nanogru poor copyleft
21:43 blockh34d i think thats copyleft anyways, i dunno
21:43 masterpi hey ivan
21:44 nanogru heloooo
21:44 blockh34d anyone got any good inet radio stations they'd recommend
21:44 blockh34d i'm reconnecting with how cool inet radio is
21:44 nanogru I have no idea what that is
21:44 blockh34d oh check out somafm
21:44 nanogru although judging from a 3 second google search now I do
21:44 blockh34d its a great place to start
21:45 blockh34d i'm liking 'def con radio', one of their stations
21:45 nanogru gonna ask this out of left field but does anybody here listen to showtunes
21:45 blockh34d no i dont think i do
21:46 blockh34d whats a showtunes?
21:46 nanogru at first I was like "nope" but listen they're so awesome
21:46 nanogru my dear fellow...
21:46 nanogru this is when we break into song
21:46 nanogru singing a song entitled "A Showtunes"
21:46 blockh34d if i listen to a showtune will i wake up in bollywood?
21:46 nanogru no you'll wake up without your kidney
21:47 nanogru but it'll be worth it
21:47 blockh34d curse you Ebay!
21:47 nanogru how could you possibly lose your kidney over ebay
21:47 blockh34d at least i know where to get a 'new' one
21:47 nanogru just thinking of the logistics
21:47 blockh34d oh they know right where it is
21:47 blockh34d exactly who they sold it to etc
21:48 nanogru I keep one of my kidney's in my freezer for safekeeping
21:48 blockh34d amazon guy probably delivered it with a flying drone
21:48 nanogru goddamn amazon guys
21:48 blockh34d leave an eye in there too
21:48 blockh34d to keep watch on the kidney
21:48 nanogru oooh security
21:48 blockh34d maybe some muscle too
21:48 blockh34d like literally, a muscle
21:48 nanogru must have adequate protection
21:49 blockh34d already sounds prett fearsom
21:49 nanogru pretty sure jeff bezos is breeding a new species just to carry packages
21:49 blockh34d have you ever seen what their shipping hubs are like?
21:49 nanogru like an animal quadcopter that carry packages
21:49 blockh34d its insane
21:49 blockh34d just a cloud of little wheeled robots
21:49 blockh34d moving around stacks of shelves
21:49 nanogru do they have mecanum wheels
21:49 nanogru i loooove mecanum wheels
21:49 blockh34d i dunno mecanum wheels
21:50 blockh34d they have two big wheels, two little wheels
21:50 nanogru probably not mecanum, how sad
21:50 blockh34d also they can spin themselves like a corkscrew to raise /lower a signifigant weight
21:50 nanogru holy crap that's cool
21:50 nanogru so
21:50 blockh34d thats how they pick up the shelves and put them down etc
21:50 nanogru THAT IS SO COOL
21:50 blockh34d its pretty badass
21:50 nanogru i never thought of rotating a robot base to do that
21:50 blockh34d the system they use to navigate is pretty ipmressive too
21:50 nanogru it must be
21:51 blockh34d they ahve literally 1000's of these things all operating at once
21:51 blockh34d driving under shelvestoo
21:51 blockh34d its surreal to watch
21:51 blockh34d now i wonder about 1000's
21:51 blockh34d maybe its more like 100s
21:51 blockh34d whatever, a lot
21:51 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/IC-LED-Optocoupler-LM399-DIP-CHIP-Detector-TESTER-with-usb-for-Digital-tube-/261210380319
21:51 rue_house top ground off chip?
21:51 rue_house stick it in here!
21:52 blockh34d rue i hear you have interest in things like maybe jump boots?
21:52 blockh34d or high pressure pneumatics?
21:53 rue_house not high pressure no
21:53 blockh34d yeah i want to get pretty HP
21:53 blockh34d but even at 150psi, what i've homemade isnt bad
21:53 blockh34d one pencil sized fiber lifts 8 lbs
21:53 blockh34d thats made of steel mesh tubing
21:54 blockh34d i think i can get kevlar tubing though, 20 times stronger
21:54 nanogru pnuematics are goddamn scary
21:54 blockh34d so i should be able to pressurize the shit out of that
21:54 blockh34d yah it is
21:54 nanogru "i should be able to pressurize the shit out of that" things engineers say
21:54 nanogru give me a linear servo, stepper with threaded rod, rack and pinion set any day
21:54 blockh34d lol engineer would be a generous term
21:55 nanogru if you're on #robotics in my mind you're an engineer
21:55 blockh34d for me, that is
21:55 nanogru if maybe honorary
21:55 blockh34d i think of my self as an enthusiast
21:55 blockh34d and an artist
21:55 nanogru hmm
21:56 nanogru I think of myself as in thousands of dollars of debt
21:56 nanogru and a student about to enter an incredibly competitve market with little chance of making a decent living
21:56 blockh34d yeah but you'll get a proper understanding of everything involved
21:56 blockh34d i'll just, maybe, know how to plug it in without killing myself
21:56 blockh34d my only hope is to invent something cool
21:56 nanogru well that's the important thing
21:57 blockh34d next level, etc, and then get in charge of it all
21:57 blockh34d hire folks that really know what they're doing
21:57 blockh34d and have them totally remake whatever i cobbled together
21:57 nanogru in school I rarely learn how to actually build things, its mostly just formulas and material science and crap
21:57 nanogru you're the lucky one
21:57 blockh34d maybe, only so much you can do at home
21:57 blockh34d even if you had unlimited money
21:57 blockh34d theres legally only so much you can do at hoe
21:57 blockh34d home
21:58 blockh34d 'sorry sir we're going to need a license for that laser'
21:58 nanogru there's legality about how much you can do in a college dorm room
21:58 nanogru beleive me
21:58 masterpi in school, *understand* as much fundamental science and concepts as you can
21:58 nanogru cutting aluminum with a circular saw in your dormroom at 3 in the morning is frowned up
21:58 nanogru upon
21:58 masterpi it's much easier when you have someone explain it to you
21:58 blockh34d nanogru: hahaha i bet it is
21:58 blockh34d thats one of my fav things about my fucked up life
21:58 nanogru I tried to bring as many tools as possible
21:59 blockh34d at least i can fire that table saw up 24/7
21:59 nanogru that is true
21:59 nanogru if I do that I get arrested and expelled
21:59 blockh34d and any time of day is angle-grinder o'clock, at my place
21:59 nanogru that sounds so suggestive
21:59 nanogru "angle-grineder o'clock"
21:59 blockh34d lol
22:00 blockh34d i'm trying to think of a dirty angle grinder jokebut it kind of escapes me
22:00 nanogru I have a long and precarious history with getting in trouble/dead with this sort of stuff
22:00 nanogru lets see how far back I can go
22:00 blockh34d the idea of an angle grinder being involved in hankey pankey sounds like a Very Bad Idea
22:00 nanogru ...
22:00 blockh34d indescribably bad
22:00 nanogru homemade rocketry with custom engines
22:00 blockh34d sugar motors
22:00 blockh34d yay
22:00 blockh34d :)
22:00 blockh34d also good smoke bombs
22:01 nanogru arduino strapped to your foot for footstep monitors at the airport
22:01 blockh34d nice
22:01 nanogru that one really didn't go very well
22:01 blockh34d i want to make stealth boots like that
22:01 GargantuaSauce i want to mess with zinc/sulfur rocket fuel
22:01 blockh34d with noise cancellation on each foot
22:01 GargantuaSauce super fast combustion
22:01 blockh34d oh cool
22:01 nanogru zinc/sulfur rocket fuel with eat you
22:01 nanogru and then discuss it over dinner
22:01 nanogru because you were really only a snack
22:01 nanogru )
22:02 blockh34d i wish we could figure out space elevators
22:02 blockh34d like... tomorrow
22:02 blockh34d right away
22:02 blockh34d i think the right military grade gear could do it
22:02 blockh34d if instead of a warhead, it had a tether, etc
22:02 nanogru not gonna happen until graphene/carbyne become cheaper and easier to manufacture
22:03 nanogru we just don't have the materials for that yet
22:03 blockh34d and it was meeting halfway with another tether carrying missle from the ground
22:03 nanogru also we couldn't do assembly on earth for logistical purposes
22:03 nanogru you would need to build it in space, which would cost huge amounts of money
22:04 nanogru and then put a high mass satelite in perfect geocentric orbit above the elevator for a tether
22:04 nanogru total cost: infinite
22:04 blockh34d well its not cheap thats true
22:04 blockh34d but its cost savings from there on... substantial
22:04 nanogru that's disregarding the materials issue
22:04 blockh34d 1% of rocket based per pound
22:04 nanogru it is literally impossible with current materials on eath
22:04 blockh34d what if you used existing space junk for ballast material
22:05 blockh34d instead of launching high mass satellite
22:05 blockh34d you send up a fancy wood chippeer instead
22:05 nanogru you would need a way of manupulating it to geocentric orbit
22:05 nanogru it has to be perfectly centered at the perfect velocity
22:05 nanogru or else it bends
22:05 blockh34d space drones? swarm of space drones would be my thought
22:05 nanogru but that's an idea, lots of tiny satellites around it
22:06 nanogru for assembly definitely
22:06 GargantuaSauce i am pretty sure most contemporary designs have a counterweight in supersynchronous orbit which minimizes the average tension on the cable
22:06 blockh34d that maintain orbit along side the ballast and adjust its velocity as necessary
22:06 nanogru minimizes it but it's still incredible
22:06 GargantuaSauce ya
22:06 nanogru also if you need to dynamically adjust velocity you can't use space junk
22:06 nanogru UNLESS
22:07 nanogru ION ENGINES PEOPLE
22:07 blockh34d would it help to supercool or superheat the tehter?
22:07 nanogru THEY'RE PERFECT
22:07 blockh34d maybe spae junk for ballast but its connected to drones, not junk, precision
22:07 blockh34d and those drones can work in unison, and with varying confguration, so if some get knocked out, the rest can still pretty much maintain until more get launched etc
22:08 blockh34d redundancy etc
22:08 blockh34d how do ion engines factor in? what are they?
22:08 nanogru they would have to be autonomous and all working at the same time unless the project would take centuries
22:08 blockh34d ever heard of building the parachute on the way down?
22:08 blockh34d maybe thats how to do it...
22:08 blockh34d but literally, in this case
22:08 nanogru really efficient engines that have tiny amounts of thrust but would be perfect for small adjustments as ballasts
22:09 nanogru interesting concept
22:09 nanogru I think coming down the space elevator is easy
22:09 nanogru the hard part is coming up
22:09 blockh34d raising the cable the first time you mean?
22:09 blockh34d or after its already there, climbing it? i figured thatd be easy
22:09 nanogru you need some sort of tether to pull up the carriage, and a force pushing it down instead of gravity
22:10 nanogru climbing it
22:10 blockh34d seems like it should be pretty easy
22:10 blockh34d i dunno though maybe theres twists in the plan
22:10 blockh34d why wouldnt it be simple?
22:10 nanogru gravity won't help you lift it, if you try that there would be huge amounts of momentum
22:10 nanogru I don't think any of the problem can be described as simpl
22:10 blockh34d yah thats true enough
22:11 blockh34d but i mean why not just something like two rows of wheels that bite into the cable a little and spin, climbing the cable
22:11 nanogru that would be really slow
22:11 blockh34d what if as the carraige goes by, it also scans for problems and 'adds a layer'
22:11 blockh34d oh yah, it'd definately take forever
22:12 nanogru I have an idea
22:12 blockh34d i've heard 5 days as an estimate
22:12 blockh34d k
22:12 blockh34d but still, 5 days to get into outer space
22:12 blockh34d not so bad
22:12 nanogru maybe you use a cable on a pulley to pull it up while you're in the atmosphere, and then switch to your mechanism
22:12 blockh34d and could put a lot more stuff up in space fast... lotta weight to work with
22:12 nanogru a small increase in speed
22:13 blockh34d oh right yah why not
22:13 nanogru we would need a huge base here on earth
22:13 blockh34d could be two stage or more
22:13 nanogru exactly
22:13 blockh34d i think you'd want several elevators
22:13 nanogru no reason to use the same mecanism all the time
22:13 blockh34d the first one makes it easy to build more
22:13 nanogru OH I HAVE AN IDEA
22:13 blockh34d then if one has a problem, you have others to use to remake the first
22:13 ockh34d braces him
22:13 nanogru multiple elevators, at the top of each elevator is a passage to another elevator to go even higher/lower
22:14 blockh34d i think i played a video game like that once
22:14 blockh34d elevator action
22:14 nanogru you can segment mecanisms and at the same time allow multiple levels
22:14 blockh34d probably before your time
22:14 blockh34d damn i'm getting old
22:14 nanogru It certainly is
22:14 nanogru was that the goat simular equivelent of the 80s
22:14 nanogru *simulator
22:15 blockh34d no it was pretty popular
22:15 blockh34d full of elevator intrigue
22:15 blockh34d danger!
22:15 nanogru seems kind of specific and not very dramatic
22:15 blockh34d oh ya
22:15 blockh34d it realy was pretty popular though
22:15 blockh34d it sounds pretty dumb though now, i admit
22:15 blockh34d i've thought a virtual dish washing game would be good
22:15 blockh34d for tablets
22:15 nanogru imagine explaining goat simulator in 10 years
22:15 blockh34d cause its actually pretty doable
22:16 nanogru or 5 years
22:16 blockh34d and its stupid
22:16 nanogru or next week
22:16 blockh34d i haven't tried goat simulator
22:16 nanogru I'm sure that exists
22:16 nanogru dish washing for tablets
22:16 blockh34d its gotta, right
22:16 blockh34d but isnt that dumb as shit?
22:16 nanogru pretty sure there was a flash game like that when I was a wee laddy
22:16 blockh34d how much you wanna bet whoever has the high score also has a sink full of dishes
22:16 nanogru that's incredible
22:17 blockh34d probably works as a dishwasher too
22:17 nanogru good work on the irony there
22:17 blockh34d comes home to relax
22:17 blockh34d to some more dishes
22:17 blockh34d thanks!
22:17 nanogru I have no idea why robotic arms don't load dishes for you
22:17 nanogru seems so obvious
22:17 blockh34d water gets in the circuits?
22:17 nanogru simple object recognition, industrial robot
22:17 blockh34d robots and sixth graders do not like wwater
22:17 nanogru nah they can put a platic coatin
22:18 nanogru I will not ask the context for that statement as I am afraid to hear it
22:18 blockh34d i dunno restraurants are pretty hardcore in the kitchen
22:18 nanogru *plastic
22:18 blockh34d lol its from southpark
22:18 blockh34d the gang is trying to escape sixth graders
22:18 nanogru ha
22:18 blockh34d so they decide to cross water, since sixth graders hate water
22:19 blockh34d it worked, the 6th graders did not want to get their bike chains rusty
22:19 nanogru I should build a dishwasher loading autonomous arm with dish recognition
22:19 nanogru that would totally cell
22:19 blockh34d yes that would be tricky
22:19 nanogru GET IT
22:19 blockh34d cause dishes are slick
22:19 nanogru nevermind that sucked
22:19 blockh34d lol
22:19 blockh34d also some tiems dishes are sharp
22:19 nanogru nah, you can use rubber thingies
22:20 nanogru each with a force sensor to make sure they don't brake things
22:20 nanogru *break
22:20 blockh34d yeah, that'd be pretty cool
22:20 blockh34d do it
22:20 nanogru or maybe some kind of foam that would compress not to break things
22:20 blockh34d i got another idea for you
22:20 blockh34d this one is good i think
22:20 nanogru THE SEGWAY BLOCKH34D THE SEGWAY
22:20 nanogru IT HAUNTS ME
22:20 nanogru I MUST FINISH IT
22:20 blockh34d you should do this
22:20 blockh34d robotic pooper scooper
22:20 nanogru that must exist
22:20 blockh34d like the robo vacs
22:21 blockh34d but pooper scooper
22:21 blockh34d ido not think it does
22:21 nanogru yeo
22:21 nanogru just googled it
22:21 blockh34d i've thought about it for years
22:21 nanogru $400,000
22:21 blockh34d hahah
22:21 blockh34d figures
22:21 nanogru by willow garage of all companeis
22:21 nanogru http://news.discovery.com/tech/robotics/poop-scoop-robot-111021.htm
22:21 blockh34d ok well make a cheap one
22:21 nanogru ywah
22:21 nanogru yeah
22:21 nanogru hmm what would i need
22:21 blockh34d a methane sensor?
22:21 blockh34d a FLIR?
22:21 nanogru YES
22:22 blockh34d drone's running patrol over the yard every 5 minutes?
22:22 nanogru it would need to handle all terain a dog could
22:22 nanogru so pneumatic tires
22:22 nanogru high torque motors
22:22 blockh34d quadro
22:22 blockh34d for scoping out the turd
22:22 nanogru yep
22:22 blockh34d then tired/treaded to retrieve
22:22 nanogru or maybe some type of high powered jet
22:22 nanogru just to make it somebody elses problem
22:23 blockh34d the whole system could double as survailence too
22:23 nanogru ok I'm drafting a parts list for this
22:23 nanogru lets do this
22:23 blockh34d nice, go for it
22:23 blockh34d i'm invested in DIY ironman armor
22:23 blockh34d but i'm with ya in spirit, good luck
22:23 nanogru NO
22:23 nanogru WE DO THIS AS BROTHERS
22:23 blockh34d lol
22:23 blockh34d OK THEN
22:23 nanogru CALCULATE THE PRICE AND THEN DISCUSS HOW WE COULD NEVER AFFORD IT
22:23 blockh34d WE SCOOP THE TURD< TOGETHER
22:23 nanogru ok
22:23 nanogru first things first
22:24 nanogru an arduino mega for the brains?
22:24 blockh34d nono, raspberry pi or better
22:24 blockh34d maybe odroid u3
22:24 nanogru good point
22:24 blockh34d or beaglebone black
22:24 nanogru nah, I have experience with raspberry pi, pretty cool board
22:24 blockh34d but maybe some arduinos too
22:24 blockh34d to spice it up
22:24 nanogru and python
22:24 blockh34d yah i'm on one now
22:24 blockh34d its great
22:24 nanogru right now?!
22:24 blockh34d i have a HMD i made that uses two of them
22:24 blockh34d yes
22:24 nanogru awesome
22:24 blockh34d but i'm not on the HMD
22:25 blockh34d i make games/apps for rpi
22:25 blockh34d am working on realtime cam vision apps
22:25 nanogru awesome
22:25 nanogru that is very cool
22:25 nanogru ok, so lets get a model B
22:25 blockh34d if you can get a FLIR, we can get it finding that turd
22:25 blockh34d yah i dunno if you can even get model a's anyore
22:25 blockh34d i tried last week or so and could not
22:26 blockh34d b's better
22:26 blockh34d but now theres new even cooler on the way
22:26 blockh34d pi for integrated
22:26 blockh34d no sockets nothing, just a ribbon of connectors
22:26 blockh34d fits into sodimm ram chip socket
22:26 nanogru do you know how one would do pwm with the gpio ports?
22:26 nanogru in python?
22:26 blockh34d i don't no sorry
22:27 blockh34d i havent done that yet
22:27 blockh34d but the raspberrypi channel on irc is pretty helpful
22:27 nanogru i'm not actually going to build this
22:27 blockh34d NO
22:27 nanogru I just want to know how much it would cost
22:27 nanogru for useful research purposes
22:27 blockh34d no its too late
22:27 blockh34d i have rescheduled
22:27 blockh34d ok so next is a FLIR camera
22:28 blockh34d so about... $2800 for the one we need
22:28 nanogru nah
22:28 nanogru just build a collar for the dog with IR leds all around it
22:28 nanogru get lots of sensors on the robot all around at let it locate the dog that way
22:28 nanogru bluetooth and rfid for distance
22:28 blockh34d pay poor people to scoop up the poop?
22:28 blockh34d would probably cost less
22:29 nanogru get a ROBOT to pay poor people to scoop up the poop
22:29 blockh34d haha perfect
22:29 nanogru probably more intimidating
22:29 blockh34d finallysomething for a robo butler to do
22:29 blockh34d lol
22:29 nanogru hmm motors
22:29 nanogru this one seems nice
22:29 nanogru 5000 rpm at 300 ozin torque
22:29 nanogru maybe a little too powerful
22:30 nanogru lets get 4
22:30 blockh34d why 4?
22:30 nanogru MOAR POWAH
22:30 nanogru also in a hypothetical always go with the max
22:30 nanogru OH THE MAX
22:30 nanogru LETS GO WITH 6
22:30 blockh34d MILLION
22:30 blockh34d lotta wheels
22:30 nanogru nah not enough pwm ouputs
22:31 nanogru we should use mecanum wheels
22:31 blockh34d what about treads?
22:31 nanogru OH MY GOD WE SHOULD USE MECANUM WHEELS
22:31 nanogru hmm
22:31 nanogru interesting
22:31 blockh34d i like treads best for lawns and stuff
22:31 blockh34d like tanks
22:31 nanogru they destroy lawns and stuff
22:31 Jak_o_Shadows Treads are rarely worth the hassle I think.
22:31 blockh34d they get it
22:31 nanogru I agree with Jak
22:31 nanogru much easier to use wheels
22:31 blockh34d ok thats true
22:31 nanogru mecanum wheels, however, are awesome
22:31 blockh34d treads are pain in the ass
22:31 nanogru not very terrainy
22:31 blockh34d but maybe with 3d printing its ok?
22:31 GargantuaSauce mecanum wheels are not going to work on a lawn
22:32 blockh34d 3d printed treads
22:32 nanogru so pneumatic wheels
22:32 GargantuaSauce and are ridiculously expensive
22:32 blockh34d with a whole bag of spare parts
22:32 blockh34d ok wheels
22:32 nanogru for our scale 3d printed treads isn't gonna be viable
22:32 blockh34d but i'm putting treads on mine
22:32 blockh34d and blackjack, and strippers
22:32 nanogru fiiine
22:32 nanogru hey I called the strippers
22:32 nanogru OOH IDEA
22:33 nanogru arduino mega with pwm controlling our 6 motors, controlled by the raspi over i2c
22:33 blockh34d yes better that way
22:33 blockh34d thats a good way to use a rpi
22:33 nanogru yeah
22:33 blockh34d but maybe better to just use a bbb
22:33 nanogru eh
22:33 blockh34d cause they have ridiculousn umber of outputs/inputs etc
22:33 blockh34d dozens
22:33 nanogru ok
22:33 nanogru then beaglebone it is
22:33 blockh34d i think thats better
22:34 blockh34d i love rpi but they're kinda mickey mouse
22:34 nanogru ok
22:34 nanogru we should be able to gear shift
22:34 nanogru lower gears on turns
22:34 blockh34d if its a open source project for everyone, go rpi, if its to mass produce and use propietary everything, BBB
22:34 nanogru thank you for the advice
22:34 blockh34d i keep wondering about the same stuff for my HMD
22:35 blockh34d cause i dunno if i want it open source, or a private project, or what
22:35 nanogru this the hand thing?
22:35 GargantuaSauce my soc of choice is currently the allwinners
22:35 blockh34d for now i think rpi based project cause they're easier to get
22:35 blockh34d no this is head mounted display
22:35 nanogru definitely
22:35 nanogru oh
22:35 blockh34d does ar/vr
22:35 nanogru ok
22:35 blockh34d soon head tracking
22:35 nanogru oculus rift/google glass lovechild?
22:35 blockh34d lil bit ya
22:36 nanogru nice
22:36 blockh34d but with immersive ar, and sterea HD cams
22:36 nanogru do yourself a favor and run android interfacing with the electronics through an arduino
22:36 nanogru java makes life easier
22:36 nanogru and so does android
22:36 blockh34d i've tried some android development and i didnt care for it
22:36 blockh34d largely because i couldnt develop on the actual device
22:37 blockh34d i do most of my rpi development on the rpi itself
22:37 blockh34d thats pretty cool imo :)
22:37 nanogru hmmm
22:37 nanogru do you have another computer?
22:37 blockh34d yes a stack of them
22:37 blockh34d but they're old and loud
22:37 blockh34d with fans
22:37 nanogru I don't see the problem
22:37 nanogru arduino ide is tiny
22:37 blockh34d like living in a wind tunnel
22:37 nanogru earplugs
22:37 blockh34d rpi has no moving parts
22:37 blockh34d its nice to have less fans going crazy all the time
22:38 blockh34d so i use rpi a lot, even though its kind of a POS
22:38 nanogru put the tiniest amount of code on the arduino for each thing you want to read/control, and then do everything else in java on an android board
22:38 blockh34d not good desktop, whatever, good enough for lotta stuff
22:38 nanogru yeah i was suprised you were using that for normal use
22:38 blockh34d its really not bad if you use it right
22:38 nanogru i had originally planned on using my rpi like you do but I just couldn''t
22:38 blockh34d like i cant run vlc
22:38 nanogru what distro do you run?
22:38 blockh34d so i have to use omxplayer
22:39 blockh34d raspbian
22:39 nanogru sadf
22:39 nanogru sad
22:39 blockh34d omxplayer has no gui
22:39 nanogru arch my friend
22:39 blockh34d so i had to write my own
22:39 nanogru arch
22:39 blockh34d in python
22:39 nanogru ha
22:39 blockh34d yah but i'm doing game development
22:39 blockh34d and i want to make sure it works for most people out of the bo
22:39 blockh34d box
22:39 nanogru for the PI?
22:39 blockh34d and since raspbian is default, its whati support first
22:39 nanogru how does that even work
22:39 blockh34d yes
22:39 blockh34d PI3d
22:39 nanogru I aplaud you for that
22:39 blockh34d to access opengles
22:39 nanogru quite impressive
22:39 GargantuaSauce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXvZWTZWN8A streamed using vlc on an a10
22:39 nanogru I could never have the patience
22:39 blockh34d i get 50fps+ at 1080p
22:40 blockh34d split screen deathmatch
22:40 blockh34d overhead tank game i made
22:40 blockh34d extremely low mesh but whatever, it functions
22:40 nanogru holy crap that's cool
22:40 blockh34d i use omxplayer to play 1080p video on other computers now, no problem
22:41 nanogru did you build that bot?
22:41 GargantuaSauce ya
22:41 nanogru oh my
22:41 nanogru I once put a pi on two little motors
22:41 nanogru mounted a webcam
22:41 blockh34d http://s13.postimg.org/kvykdw2dz/IMG_2521.jpg
22:42 nanogru ran node.js
22:42 blockh34d i've updated that a lot since that photo though
22:42 nanogru so if you must know my javascript bigotry has some degreee of self hate
22:42 blockh34d uses night vision cameras and has 160 degree fish eyes
22:42 GargantuaSauce sounds disorienting
22:42 nanogru my irc client doenst have text highlighting
22:43 blockh34d it really takes a moment to orient
22:43 nanogru takes me 5 min to copy a link
22:43 blockh34d some of my javascript:
22:43 blockh34d http://prodev.comule.com/jstest2
22:43 nanogru awesome
22:43 blockh34d another http://prodev.comule.com/jstest
22:44 nanogru once again sorry for the js hate
22:44 nanogru probably shouldn't do that
22:44 blockh34d haha its ok i understand its so hateable
22:44 nanogru it is
22:44 blockh34d if 10 years ago you told me js would be running the show, i would have laughed
22:44 nanogru so it java
22:44 blockh34d and i used it a lot even then
22:44 nanogru so is java
22:44 blockh34d yes i hate java
22:44 blockh34d really hate java
22:44 nanogru I used to be a js guy
22:44 blockh34d no good reason
22:44 nanogru then a c++ guy
22:44 blockh34d just dont like it
22:44 nanogru then an objective c guy
22:45 nanogru I hated java until i tried it
22:45 GargantuaSauce i hated java until i started doing javascript
22:45 nanogru wut
22:45 GargantuaSauce now i know to make anonymous classes everywhere
22:45 GargantuaSauce and things are much more fun
22:45 nanogru YES
22:45 GargantuaSauce now i just mildly detest it.
22:46 nanogru that's important
22:46 nanogru have you heard the java joke about all platforms
22:46 blockh34d thats what i hate most of java though
22:46 blockh34d that it has so little to do with javascript
22:46 blockh34d they are nothing like each other
22:47 nanogru wait before I say what i'm about to say what are the content rules on irc
22:48 blockh34d you're not allowed to lie
22:48 blockh34d on the internet
22:48 GargantuaSauce depends on the channel, and this one is "don't be a huge dick"
22:48 nanogru okey dokey
22:48 nanogru so the joke is as follows
22:49 nanogru saying that java is better because it works on all platforms is like saying anal sex is better because it works on all platforms
22:49 GuShH_ nanogru: as long as you don't talk shit about me, you can say anything!
22:49 nanogru okey dokey
22:49 ShH_ g
22:49 armyofevilrobots http://gobot.io/ sounds interesting...
22:49 GargantuaSauce don't worry, we all do it when he's offline
22:49 nanogru although over the years, I have learned that java IS better because it works on all platforms
22:49 blockh34d lol
22:49 armyofevilrobots evented robotics framework in go.
22:49 nanogru and as follows the equivelent is also true
22:49 armyofevilrobots @nanogru; hehehe.
22:49 GuShH_ darn why are cutoff bandsaws still expensive
22:50 GuShH_ specially the dry ones
22:50 nanogru BECAUSE VRRRROOOOOM
22:50 blockh34d GuShH_: is that what i'd want to cut old AC motors in half with?
22:50 GuShH_ what's vroom?
22:50 blockh34d so i can scrap the copper out of the motor?
22:50 GuShH_ blockh34d: you could...
22:50 nanogru vroom could be defined as whooooosh in some dialects
22:50 blockh34d i should do that
22:50 GuShH_ think bandsaw with gravity feed (for the cheap ones)
22:50 nanogru i'm scared
22:50 blockh34d i probably have 500 in copper sitting inside motors in my back yard
22:50 blockh34d whats one run?
22:50 blockh34d on the cheap?
22:51 GuShH_ don't know where you live
22:51 nanogru voulenteer as tribute
22:51 nanogru for your old motors
22:51 blockh34d ohio
22:51 GuShH_ here 600 bucks and upwards.
22:51 GuShH_ so probably 300 bucks in the US heh
22:51 GuShH_ I would pay that.
22:51 blockh34d cool yah i want one
22:51 nanogru i bought a string
22:51 GuShH_ bah let's visit the hf site.
22:51 nanogru it can cut wood
22:51 GuShH_ g string?
22:51 nanogru after a while
22:51 blockh34d cause then i could cut plate steel too yes?
22:51 ockh34d heads on over to hf
22:51 GuShH_ oh I'd like one of those to chop off tall branches
22:52 GuShH_ up to a certain size yes
22:52 GuShH_ yerp 270 bucks in HF for the cheapie
22:52 nanogru hee hee
22:52 GuShH_ 830 for the other one
22:52 GuShH_ which is hydraulic feed, nice
22:52 blockh34d link?
22:53 GuShH_ http://www.harborfreight.com/horizontal-vertical-metal-cutting-bandsaw-93762.html
22:53 GuShH_ http://www.harborfreight.com/1-hp-7-inch-x-12-inch-hydraulic-feed-metal-cutting-bandsaw-97009.html
22:53 nanogru "270 bucks for a cheapie"
22:53 GuShH_ the cheap one here costs almost like the expensive one there.
22:53 GuShH_ looks nice, wonder if it's just dry cutting though
22:53 GuShH_ oh I see lubricant hose.
22:54 nanogru yeah you do
22:54 nanogru harbor freight is great
22:54 GuShH_ 1720RPM... wtf that's way too fast
22:54 GuShH_ maybe that's the speed of the motor? chopoff saws run slow...
22:54 nanogru you people just keep giving me more
22:54 GuShH_ nanogru: what?
22:55 GuShH_ oh there you go, 90 to 255fpm, the other speed is the motor speed, stupid HF.
22:56 blockh34d could i cut quarter inch AR500 into weird shapes with that?
22:56 GuShH_ the cheap one looks like crap, I wonder if it would last a week.
22:56 GuShH_ if you set it vertical, you can cut by hand
22:56 GuShH_ while horizontal, it's to chop off.
22:57 blockh34d oh ok
22:57 GuShH_ AR500... if you want to make targets try a cnced 3 phase plasma cutter
22:58 blockh34d cool i was thinking more like armor plates but sure, lets say targets
22:58 GuShH_ there are weasels out there selling targets mostly out of AR500, unless it's for rimfire.
22:58 blockh34d what metal would you use for armor plating?
22:58 ShH_ calls them weasels because, you don't really need a pig shaped tar
22:59 GuShH_ or say, a target tree that costs 500 bucks.
22:59 blockh34d i would weld something like that together anyways
22:59 blockh34d maybe thats what i should do
22:59 GuShH_ blockh34d: these days? composites
22:59 blockh34d make intricate art for people to shoot
22:59 blockh34d i plan to cover the steel with kevlar
23:00 blockh34d i'd like to use kevlar saturated with nanosilica in a PEG bath
23:00 blockh34d but i can't get the nanosilica
23:02 nanogru Heeeeeeey
23:02 GuShH_ lol 90 day warranties
23:03 GuShH_ that's how long you should expect this shit to last.
23:03 nanogru So guys I may or may nor be jesus
23:03 blockh34d you are
23:03 GuShH_ you are most definetely not.
23:03 GargantuaSauce it's me i'm the messiah
23:03 nanogru Can I build Jesus? Out of aluminum?
23:03 GuShH_ TURN IT INTO WINE BIATCH.
23:03 blockh34d the IRC JESUS
23:04 blockh34d when i make a cyborg suit i plan to introduce myself as robot jesus
23:04 nanogru Give it lots of horsepower
23:04 blockh34d jst to see what people think about that
23:04 nanogru Mecanum wheels
23:04 blockh34d laser feet
23:04 nanogru Everybody knows Jesus has mecanum wheels
23:04 blockh34d and spinners
23:05 nanogru Of course
23:06 GuShH_ fuck sake.
23:06 nanogru Jesus probably turns silicone into nylon
23:06 nanogru Like a miraculous EMP
23:06 blockh34d Digital Jesus is probably a programmer
23:06 blockh34d sounds a lot like carpentry to me
23:06 nanogru Totally
23:07 nanogru The modern day Jesus would be a rebellious programmer who can fix any bug
23:08 nanogru HE COULD BE ANY ONE OF US
23:08 ockh34d looks aroundddd
23:08 nanogru Wow I got comfortable here quickly
23:08 GargantuaSauce don't worry, we'll beat it out of you
23:08 blockh34d not me
23:08 blockh34d robo suit
23:08 nanogru OK BYEEEEE EVERYONE JESUS HAS TO SLEEP NOW
23:09 blockh34d gnite
23:12 blockh34d cheapo HF saw seems well liked in comments
23:14 GuShH_ blockh34d: sadly I don't have any space left for more stuff like that
23:15 blockh34d i got a whole empty basement here just about
23:15 blockh34d and a business model taht really wants a tool like that around
23:15 blockh34d if i scrap motors for motor weight i get 10 cents a pound
23:15 GuShH_ I use an abrassive chopsaw for most cutting
23:15 blockh34d if i get the copper out, that copper gets 2.00 or more pound
23:16 GuShH_ I'm not sure the OEM blade would last you enough to get the money back by cutting yunk
23:16 blockh34d i have one and it does ok but it deosnt seem able to handle the motors i want to cut
23:16 GuShH_ junk
23:16 GuShH_ well I call yard junk yunk.
23:16 blockh34d yah i would want an american blade
23:17 blockh34d but some reviews even expressed positives about the default blade
23:17 GuShH_ maybe they were cutting air.
23:17 blockh34d SOLID air
23:17 rue_house looking for drill chucks on ebay, I think I can go to a local welder and buy a dead drill for waaaay less, take the chuck off that
23:17 GuShH_ they sell the machines here, but no spare blades
23:17 blockh34d 4x6, intricate cups
23:17 GuShH_ idiots.
23:17 blockh34d cuts even
23:17 GuShH_ rue_house: depends for what
23:17 GuShH_ most drills use threaded chucks
23:17 GuShH_ not tapered.
23:18 GuShH_ I'm looking at J33 chucks in smaller sizes and a bigger good quality chuck... since my 16mm on the lathe sucks
23:18 rue_house I want to make a toolpost drill chuck for the lathe
23:18 GuShH_ I tried everything and it's not true, I think the jaws came screwed from the factory
23:18 rue_house faster pecking
23:18 rue_house better centering
23:18 rue_house :/
23:18 GuShH_ I don't like threaded chucks
23:19 GuShH_ tapers are more precise
23:19 GuShH_ J33 is the norm
23:19 GuShH_ on these sizes
23:19 blockh34d if i were to get a saw like this, would building metal fences be something i could use it for?
23:19 rue_house hah my last second ebay bids are winning me all sorts of cr**
23:19 GuShH_ they have some self adjusting ROHM ones, but only up to 10mm I think
23:19 GuShH_ either that or up to 6mm
23:19 blockh34d i make wood fences, and i weld, so i think making metal fence could be good for me to make more money on side etc
23:20 GuShH_ blockh34d: depends on the size of the stock material
23:20 GuShH_ the limitations are listed on the page
23:20 blockh34d i mean i can weld, a little, wih this MIG i got. Im not a trained welder though
23:20 GuShH_ for fabrication I use my chopsaw, I just hate deburring
23:20 GuShH_ and it's not perfectly straight
23:20 GuShH_ but mind you that china shit doesn't cut square either
23:20 blockh34d yeah mine puts a lot of junk on the cuts
23:21 GuShH_ it helps to use a good abrassive disc
23:21 rue_house hmm I need more things that end in the next hour
23:21 blockh34d yah maybe i'm using the wrong kind
23:21 GuShH_ I changed the one that came with the saw for a DeWalt one, the thinnest I could find
23:21 GuShH_ cuts very nicely
23:21 blockh34d oh ok i'll try thtat out
23:21 blockh34d thats my experience with angle grinders as well
23:21 GuShH_ the standard was thick and generic shit, it would take too long to cut and cut all skewed
23:21 blockh34d thinnest dewalt blade possible ftw
23:22 GuShH_ 1 or 1.2mm is the thinnest I've seen and use
23:22 blockh34d maybe i should just use my chopsaw for that
23:22 ShH_ sh
23:22 blockh34d i dunno how to get the clients though
23:22 GuShH_ ads?
23:22 blockh34d n/m just something on my mind
23:22 blockh34d yah not a bad idea
23:22 blockh34d or craigslist etc
23:22 blockh34d steel fences probably a safe bet these days
23:22 GuShH_ rue_house: ever heard of ROHM though? is it german?
23:22 blockh34d everyone expectin zombie apocalypse tc
23:22 GuShH_ I don't want any more china shit.
23:23 GuShH_ zombie apocalypse won't happen...
23:23 GuShH_ it's all a marketing scam to abuse the gullible mind of preppers.
23:23 blockh34d yes
23:23 blockh34d thats true
23:23 blockh34d preppers crack me up
23:23 rue_house I know ROHM well
23:23 rue_house lots of power stuff iirf
23:23 rue_house iirc
23:23 blockh34d imo if shit hits fan, gotta stay on the move or your f'd
23:24 blockh34d so preppers are doomed
23:24 GuShH_ if shit hits the fan, keep your mouth shut.
23:24 blockh34d ?
23:24 blockh34d i think i might become pretty social
23:24 GuShH_ rue_house: these http://i.imgur.com/xFSIpXZ.jpg -- wonder why that jacobs isn't "ribbed" ... lightest duty models?
23:25 GuShH_ blockh34d: it's a joke, if it hits the fan don't open your mouth.
23:25 blockh34d help people setup power/communication/medical, move along, do it again, etc
23:25 GuShH_ if it literally hits the fan...
23:25 blockh34d GuShH_: oh hahah
23:25 blockh34d yah good advice
23:25 ockh34d is t
23:25 GuShH_ the keyless might be handy for up to 10mm stuff
23:26 GuShH_ but I wonder if the 6mm won't be more precise and close down to 0
23:26 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/VISHAY-SMT-RESISTOR-ASSORTMENT-10-REELS-/131170725745
23:26 rue_house poo no good values
23:26 GuShH_ scrap reels heh
23:27 rue_house price is good tho
23:51 GuShH_ rue_house: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXt4TWa382Q&feature=em-subs_digest
23:51 GuShH_ applies for the other way around in my case (metric lathe cutting imperial)
23:51 GuShH_ why didn't I think of that
23:52 GuShH_ and hell that must be 1k worth of toolholders he's got there
23:55 rue_house I have metric thread settings on mine
23:55 rue_house if anything the imperial is goofy