#robotics Logs
Apr 04 2014
#robotics Calendar
00:27 rue_shop2 that is surface mount, it will not fit in a boardboard
00:37 JCM83 dang
00:38 JCM83 rue_shop2, are servos generally designed to be run on low amperage?
00:42 rue_more they pull spikes, but yea
00:42 rue_more here
00:43 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
00:43 rue_more that is with mid-load, its drawing .4A
01:05 rue_more JCM83,
01:05 rue_more ?
01:09 JCM83 cool
01:09 JCM83 I have this "Ardbot" that's designed to run on the arduino, but none of my motors seem to run on the arduino
01:09 JCM83 indeed I keep having a bunch of trouble running these motors with anything.
01:10 JCM83 How can you provide enough power for motors off of batteries? What do you need?
01:13 rue_more JCM83, did you read the link I sent you?
01:13 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 rue_more that one?
01:17 myofevilrobots /kicks rue_more floodin
01:17 rue_more hey, its my channel
01:17 rue_more no, wait, this is toms channel
01:17 rue_more right, mine is #avr
01:18 JCM83 no I didn't but I will now.
01:18 armyofevilrobots You are a fixture though. It _should_ be your channel.
01:18 JCM83 I got distracted trying to figure out how the power supply works.
01:18 myofevilrobots just spent all day writing Makefiles. Life is too sh
01:18 armyofevilrobots night then.
01:18 rue_more but I am an overlord!
01:18 JCM83 this varying amperage thing is kind of weirding me out
01:19 rue_more armyofevilrobots, makefiles, evil
01:19 rue_more armyofevilrobots, light reading: http://rab.ict.pwr.wroc.pl/irb1400/prod14.pdf
01:22 rue_more as my new robot arm comes togethor I'm finding its gaining a little more play than I was expecting
01:24 rue_more WAIT! OVERLORD SAYS PLEASE COME BACK!!
01:35 rue_more http://www.aliexpress.com/item/F05293-10Pcs-Steering-Gear-Servo-Rudder-Adjust-Device-2-1mm-Copper-For-RC-Model-Aircraft/1022005040.html
01:35 rue_more oooo I should make some of those
01:37 rue_more http://www.aliexpress.com/item/75PCS-a-lot-Plastic-gear-rack-pulley-belt-Worm-gear-Single-and/1343957842.html
01:37 rue_more AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
01:37 rue_more must buy!
08:16 armyofevilrobots rue_bed: You got it?
09:10 rue_more not yet
09:11 rue_more oh the ABB? heck no, I just thought its a cool thing to flip thu
09:12 rue_more the gear set is a good buy tho
09:12 armyofevilrobots Ah.
09:12 armyofevilrobots The lady at the recycling place wasn't terribly engaged, but I got the impression it was picked up by somebody that wanted a lawn ornament. I may have misinterpreted that.
09:13 armyofevilrobots she was busy having a conversation with somebody else when I asked.
09:13 rue_more the guy I talked to said it wa going to craigslist
09:13 armyofevilrobots Fuuu!
09:13 cjdavies Does anybody know of UK stockists of something like these wheel plates/dollys? http://www.servocity.com/html/dolly_wheel_drive_plates_b__58.html?ref=Cheesycam.com
09:13 rue_more I dont think it was really a robot arm
09:14 rue_more I think it might have been a test tube handler
09:14 armyofevilrobots Ah. OK.
09:14 armyofevilrobots Then the story I got makes no sense :\
09:15 rue_more I'll have to upgrade to grapevine 2.0 so I hear about this stuff sooner
09:15 armyofevilrobots Ha. For sure. Can I have a copy of that once you're done?
09:18 rue_more that recycling center is woth keeping an eye on for anyone who can
09:19 e_more points to the half dozen bar code scanners, the 3000 10 position dip switches, and the 7000 resis
09:19 armyofevilrobots I check it every time I go by, but a lot of the stuff we would be interested in is "shiny", so it'll disappear fast anyhow.
09:19 armyofevilrobots barcode scanners though, score!
09:19 armyofevilrobots too. early. sleepy.
09:19 rue_more little industrial ones
09:19 rue_more cjdavies, you can make your own
09:19 armyofevilrobots I just got a laser line scanner of a buddy, gotta figure out how it works.
09:20 rue_more hmmmm
09:20 armyofevilrobots Hoping to put it on the gantry on the CNC, bam, 3d scanner.
09:20 rue_more I'da made one by now but my code for finding the lien woulnd't work
09:20 cjdavies rue_more: How would I go about making my own? Is there some obvivous material I can use?
09:21 rue_more it refused, even under ideal conditions, to find the line
09:21 rue_more cjdavies, the coupler can be made from a "link nut" the shaft is just round bar
09:22 armyofevilrobots @cjdavies: http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=dolly
09:22 rue_more those are inline scate wheels with the hubs locked
09:22 armyofevilrobots slow shipping, but many cheap options.
09:22 rue_more the rest is just plate metal
09:22 cjdavies I need it faster than shipping from china, otherwise I would just order it from the US stockist ;)
09:22 armyofevilrobots Ah. OK.
09:22 rue_more if you have a bench vise and a drillpress your set
09:23 cjdavies I don't have the tools to machine plate metal (no drill press)
09:23 armyofevilrobots yeah, just get 90 degree angle aluminum and use a hand drill.
09:24 rue_more interesting
09:24 rue_more all the applications they show there are for position control,
09:24 rue_more but those dont have encoders on them
09:24 cjdavies I guess I could try doing it by hand with aluminium angle, but ideally I'm looking for something that can be assembled quickly without too much trail-&-error
09:24 rue_more and they didn't list it wit a closed loop controller
09:25 armyofevilrobots Sorry, we're all talking about alternatives, but sounds like you really want to get this particular solution.
09:25 rue_more cjdavies, do you need a cart on a rail?
09:25 cjdavies rue_more: I need to move a smartphone at a constant speed at roughly chest height for a distance of maybe 20-30ft, with the phone's magnetometer logging data
09:26 cjdavies A motorized dolly/slider seemed like one idea, as a rover would be difficult to balance with a chest-height extension sticking up out of it
09:26 rue_more do you care if it pulls itself along on a belt or strap?
09:26 cjdavies Doesn't matter how it moves as long as it is a relatively constant speed
09:27 rue_more can you get aluminum L rail?
09:27 cjdavies ah, think there is an easier solution actually
09:27 rue_more I suppose it could be steel, aluminum is easier to work with
09:27 cjdavies If I just have a taught line (starline or similar) anchored between two uprights & a motor on one end that pulls a sled along it
09:27 rue_more there ya go
09:28 rue_more you can make a cart with scateboard beraings as wheels
09:28 rue_more use a hmm 5/16 or 3/8 bolt thru them to hold them on (one of those fits, I dont remmeber which)
09:29 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc2/p1020742.jpg
09:29 rue_more see on the right?
09:29 armyofevilrobots 5/16; it's 8mm.
09:29 rue_more er left
09:29 rue_more its 7:12am
09:29 cjdavies Yup, but I'm thinking I can do this infinitely simpler
09:29 rue_more 7:13
09:30 rue_more 7:13:15
09:30 cjdavies I literally just need to drag a phone along a straight line, so I can essentially set up a washing line sort of thing, with a wooden sled hooked over the line, sled attached to a winch
09:30 rue_more there ya go
09:30 cjdavies So 2x tripods, length of line, 2x metal hook/eyelets, constant speed motor at one end
09:31 rue_more oh oh
09:31 rue_more check this out
09:31 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/camera_slider/dscn4169.jpg
09:31 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/camera_slider/dscn4175.jpg
09:31 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/camera_slider/dscn4219.jpg
09:32 cjdavies yet another thing I want a pillar drill for, but I have still yet to convince myself to buy one :)
09:32 cjdavies just spend gbp120 on a new hand drill though
09:32 rue_more a drillpress is REALLY handy
09:32 rue_more to some degree, you can even use it as a lathe
09:33 cjdavies I nearly bought one after I drilled all the mounting holes through these pieces of aluminium angle using nothing more than a single speed hand drill
09:33 cjdavies http://cjdavies.org/shimmie/index.php?q=/post/view/87
09:34 cjdavies (excuse the messy kitchen & the earthing - I completely changed the earthing after that)
09:34 rue_more most drilling can be done with a hand drill
09:34 rue_more oooo linear
09:34 cjdavies yeah & aluminium is nice & soft
09:35 cjdavies only issue I had was one or two holes ended up not quite perpendicular
09:35 rue_more yea, lots of extra care required
09:35 rue_more I havn't heard about the big april fools things this year
09:36 rue_more just google putting out a postion for a pokemon master
09:40 rue_more http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0u1zoaJYAmw
09:49 cjdavies Right, I think I've got this worked out. All I need to buy is a suitable pulley/winch/motor controller.
09:49 cjdavies I've got access to a pair of huge lighting stands which won't topple inwards when I try to make the line taut enough
11:24 GuShH_ rue_more: camera slider?
11:24 GuShH_ why did you need one?
11:39 GuShH_ chile is going DOWN
12:44 GuShH_ need to find some cheaper flexible hose for the coolant, hrmm
12:44 GuShH_ I figured the T joint will also allow me to swirl the coolant before use, to make sure it's properly mixed. no need for air.
12:54 peeps[work] GuShH_, what ID and min bend radius do you need?
12:54 peeps[work] what are you using now?
12:56 GuShH_ it's all half inch for the coolant circuit, the flex hose should be tipped to 6mm or 3mm, either round or flat... already found a place, but with shipping and all it costs me twice as much as the actual pump!
13:16 GuShH_ peeps[work]: they're mostly magnetic mount so the bend radius isn't that important I think you can place them somewhere else if that's an issue :/
14:03 MrCurious http://www.jinspired.org/
14:48 GuShH_ MrCurious: nope. just no.
14:48 MrCurious was a mispaste
15:50 MrCurious tempting.... http://www.minnowboard.org/meet-minnowboard-max/
16:17 f00bar80 any suggestion on how i can fix this servo to the beams https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ou61urz4vtjxe5/2014-04-04%2022.56.43.jpg
16:21 robotustra hot glue
16:21 robotustra glue gun
16:28 SlaveToTheSauce_ seconded
16:29 SlaveToTheSauce_ hot glue, elastic bands, cable ties, cyanoacrylate
16:29 SlaveToTheSauce_ the four cornerstones of halfassed robotics
16:30 f00bar80 robotustra, the gripper is 0.1600Kg + beams weight is 0.018Kg X 18cm beams long = 3.2Kg.cm , at the time i'm using a 7.5 metal servo gear, so shouldn't be this sufficient ? or it's a fix issue ? just asking before using a glue
16:30 f00bar80 SlaveToTheSauce_, i've tried to use an elastic band , but still the servo moves on it own
16:31 SlaveToTheSauce_ if you hold it down with your hand can it raise the beam?
16:31 f00bar80 robotust1a, here how it's acting https://www.dropbox.com/s/xaieptg6fzawt58/2014-04-04%2021.06.07.mp4
16:40 f00bar80 robotust1a, so any comment?
16:56 armyofevilrobots if you have more of those beams, bolt one end to the arm near the base where it is hinged below, and the other to the servo mounting posts on the right in that video. That'll triangulate the servo, and lower arm, and keep it rigid. Mind you, it may interfere with the servo, not sure how hard that angle is.
16:58 SlaveToTheSauce_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKuS68DB9CU this is very impressive
16:59 SlaveToTheSauce_ many physics sims can't even maintain stability with a kinematic loop in play
17:00 f00bar80 armyofevilrobots, sorry didn't get what you mean ?
17:00 f00bar80 armyofevilrobots, the servo is sufficient ?
17:00 armyofevilrobots No.
17:01 f00bar80 armyofevilrobots, or i need a bigger one?
17:01 armyofevilrobots You need another beam, or some other kind of rod, and that can triangulate so that the back of the servo doesn't flop around
17:03 armyofevilrobots or, y'know, hot glue ;)
17:03 f00bar80 armyofevilrobots, i just want to know if the servo is sufficient before glue it ?
17:07 armyofevilrobots Oooh. Misunderstood.
17:09 f00bar80 armyofevilrobots, ??
17:10 armyofevilrobots I thought you meant the hot glue being insufficient.
17:13 f00bar80 armyofevilrobots, no i meant the servo , so what do you think? the gripper is 0.1600Kg + beams weight is 0.018Kg X 18cm beams long = 3.2Kg.cm , at the time i'm using a 7.5 metal servo gear, so shouldn't be this sufficient ?
17:30 f00bar80 armyofevilrobots, so what do you think?
17:42 foobar80 seems no luck ... :(
17:55 foobar80 very frustrating :(
18:00 foobar80 so any comment?
18:39 MrCurious hobby servo's are bad choice for moving any load at a distance
18:39 MrCurious under load, they will suck power
18:39 MrCurious you need something like a harmonic drive transmission
18:40 MrCurious or at least a substantial bgear box that prevents back propigation of motion from the actuator to the drive motor
18:46 MrCurious foobar80: http://robosavvy.com/store/images/DAGU_6DoF_RobotArm50cm.jpg
18:48 MrCurious other than that. your elbow is constructed incorrectly, and has no chance of working.
18:48 MrCurious foobar80: you need to draw an imaginary line through the elbow joint at the point of flex, align the servo horn to that. secure the body to the other side of the arm that the horn ISNT attached to the servo horn
18:48 SlaveToTheSauce_ well it's better now, watch the newest video
18:51 MrCurious but the servo base isnt attached to the upper arm ... it rests on that shelf, where it should be locked in-line with the arm strut
18:51 SlaveToTheSauce_ yeah
18:52 MrCurious for all motions, you have to flex the joint, and imagine where to llock the 2 parts of the servo to achieve the motion you desire
18:52 MrCurious and make sure they have enough current available, as that load will likely hae a super heavy pull on the juice
18:53 MrCurious usb power wont be enough to lift the weight
18:53 MrCurious and i woudnt be surprised if a servo or two melt from heat of supporting weight
18:53 MrCurious i am done being the grinch of bad news
18:53 MrCurious give it an A- for effort
18:53 SlaveToTheSauce_ the servo may be sufficient with a reasonable power supply
18:54 MrCurious i only saw the servo rotating like 12 deg...
18:54 MrCurious should have seen it doing 180...
18:54 MrCurious so i think its a combo issue between its mounting, and it sagging the power source when asked to ift weight
19:03 rue_more I'm an idiot,
19:04 rue_more I solved the whole finger thing for robots arms a long time ago
19:04 rue_more its an arm lost in history
19:05 SlaveToTheSauce_ got some pics?
19:06 rue_more NO
19:06 rue_more thats the thing
19:07 rue_more I'm just going thru photographs
19:07 rue_more see if its on film
19:07 rue_more it was long before digital cameras and irc
19:08 rue_more hah!
19:08 rue_more there it is!
19:11 rue_more oooh, this brings into question WHEN I built it
19:14 rue_more there we go
19:14 rue_more hahah there is a diagram on the chalkboard behind it of the mechanics!
19:16 rue_more hahahaha, the "temporary" stool I made about 1995? note on the chalkboard to fix it, it STILL needs fixing
19:17 rue_more I dont know how many screws are in it now
19:25 foobar80 MrCurious, that's what i got till now https://www.dropbox.com/s/xut1x98iwoisya0/2014-04-04%2023.53.51.mp4 , any suggestions to improve a bit ?
19:26 SlaveToTheSauce_ how far are you commanding it to turn? if it's 45 degrees it's perfect!
19:27 SlaveToTheSauce_ if it's more, it's probably because of the fact that the linkage between the servo horn and the forearm is not rigid
19:35 foobar80 SlaveToTheSauce_, a loop increasing from 0-180 for the arm
19:36 rue_more foobar80, yoooootooooobe
19:37 e_more is jallous of the
19:37 foobar80 rue_more, ??
19:37 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 SlaveToTheSauce_ i don't think it's a question of the servo not being able to exert enough torque or not having enough current
19:38 SlaveToTheSauce_ since it so easily jerks up when it does
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 foobar80 rue_more, which usb?
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 rue_more your overloading your usb
19:38 SlaveToTheSauce_ his overloading his usb?
19:38 rue_more the usb power your using for the whole thing?
19:38 rue_more or do those batteries do the servos
19:39 foobar80 rue_more, the battery are doing the arm and the usb is doing the gripper
19:40 rue_more hmmm
19:40 rue_more why dont you put a counterbalance ont eh arm
19:40 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm7/p1050938.jpg
19:40 rue_more hmm I need more pictures
19:40 rue_more heh
19:41 SlaveToTheSauce_ the fact that it only works at all for a very small range of motion makes me think that the little wire transmitting torque from the horn to the arm is the problem
19:41 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm4/p1010990.jpg
19:41 foobar80 rue_more, counterbalance? can't recognize what you mean from this picture? or how to do it for my arm
19:42 rue_more http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRC0gsTVlm89CNEx5y-cf_0gb4BdpK7RkQd9LEeILC4CJqz_ciU5Q
19:42 rue_more http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtbKgU3w1AjTcy_goWivgWi4-yTxM0MnnmpkaH-aW-pqbK3FEj
19:43 foobar80 rue_more, how do you think this can be done using meccano beams
19:43 rue_more those are not hydraulics, their pneumatic springs
19:43 rue_more I would start by extending the upper arm back more and putting a weight to counter the gripper
19:50 foobar80 rue_more, how this counterbalance should affect the upper arm ?
19:52 foobar80 rue_more, as well this counterbalance should be connected to the base or to another servo?
19:55 rue_more the lower segment needs to be counteracted with springs like the ABB robots
19:58 rue_more did you check out the pictrues of arm4?
20:01 rue_more http://sunshine.en.craigslist.ca/ele/4396288153.html
20:01 rue_more ooo
20:04 foobar80 rue_more, any comment on the code http://pastebin.com/dbcdWzHX
20:06 rue_more its an ok start, but I doubt ithe paramiter will properly match up with degrees
20:06 rue_more the timing of servos is more-or-less nonstandard to its limits, which varry depending on the model of servo
20:07 rue_more using STANDARD timing, you might only get 90 degrees of movement out of it
20:07 rue_more I think I forgot tosayt hat in my writeup
20:09 foobar80 rue_more, so what timing do you suggest?
20:10 rue_more I'm not sure how you make the arduino library get the full range out of a servo
20:11 foobar80 so what are your sugestions?
20:11 rue_more standard timing is from 1ms to 2ms, I'v had to go to .85 to 1.3ms to get full range on some
20:11 rue_more I suggest you worry about it later
20:11 rue_more your doing a fine job of making progress, keep improving the project
20:13 rue_more I keep trying to do two-point drags on my photograhs to zoom in
20:14 rue_more DAMNIT dosn't work!
20:22 rue_shop2 one day pads will be that thin tho
20:22 rue_shop2 operate from the static electricity you generate rubbing them
20:23 rue_more SPOILER ALART
20:23 rue_more dont tell the future, its not polite
20:24 foobar80 rue_more, if the current can't run the first servo's , so the first loop will run forever??
20:24 rue_shop2 hmm, you didn't put a while(1); at the end of your code, so it may loop
20:26 rue_shop2 ok
20:26 rue_shop2 hmm
20:27 foobar80 rue_shop2, here's the code http://pastebin.com/0sgnwEQd i'm talking about the third loop , seems that the batteries aren't conducting enough current to this loop's servo, so it keeps trying to run the servo
20:27 foobar80 rue_shop2, am i correct?
20:28 rue_shop2 you know all us rue's are one, right?
20:29 rue_mohr did someone call?
20:29 rue_shop2 no
20:30 rue_mohr wtf? no?
20:30 rue_shop2 no I did not call
20:30 rue_mohr WHY NOT!?
20:30 rue_shop2 I dont need another me
20:30 rue_mohr WHY?
20:30 rue_shop2 3 was enough
20:31 rue_mohr who the heck turned the shop upside down?
20:31 e_shop2 points at robot
20:40 foobar80 rue_*, so what do you think , am i correct?
20:41 rue_shop2 I do not suggest powering any of the servos from the usb
20:41 rue_shop2 I also do not suggest powering a project from batteries when your workign on coding it, the batteries will die when you dont expect and you will think its a code problem
20:42 foobar80 rue_shop2, i have the arm's servo on batteries, that's why i'm asking about its loop
20:42 rue_shop2 if you go to a second hand store, they will havea bin of old cell phone charger adaptersr, usually regulated 5V, up to 2A if its one for a router
20:44 foobar80 rue_shop2, i have one but when i measured its Amp, it's 0.4 A
20:44 Faek Spare computer PSU?
20:44 foobar80 rue_shop2, at the time it says 5v 1A
20:44 rue_shop2 yup
20:45 foobar80 rue_shop2, yea what? the measuring is correct or not?
20:45 rue_shop2 most adapters dont put out what they say, but they will usually be more reliable for testing than batteries
20:45 rue_shop2 I dont know how many times people think tey have a code bug and it turns out to be daed batteries
20:45 foobar80 rue_shop2, k i'll try and lets see
20:46 foobar80 rue_shop2, thx alot
20:47 rue_shop2 put a while(1); at the end of your program and see how that effects it
20:47 rue_shop2 I dont use arduino
20:52 rue_shop2 hmm I'm not sure which order I want to pitch and spin for this hand
20:53 rue_shop2 I think spin, then tip
21:31 JEntrep Herro! :D
21:38 rue_shop2 I like synchro belts because they say "dont bend"
21:38 JEntrep hey rue! :D
21:39 rue_shop2 yea?
21:39 JEntrep just saying hi :P
21:39 JEntrep is sauce on?
21:39 rue_shop2 no, its rihanna
21:40 JEntrep what?
21:40 rue_shop2 nevermind
21:40 rue_shop2 I THINK this might work...
21:43 JEntrep what might work?
21:43 rue_shop2 22-28mm
21:43 rue_shop2 48/2=24
21:43 rue_shop2 sweeet
21:43 rue_shop2 my wrist design
21:43 rue_shop2 I'm using belts
21:43 JEntrep O_o
21:44 SlaveToTheSauce_ what do YOU want
21:44 JEntrep hey sauce! :D
21:46 JEntrep ... and that's when sauce died
21:54 JEntrep Sauce I want to use your gaits as an API for some AI for your hexapod ;P
21:54 JEntrep Is that how you would recommend tying in to your system?
21:58 SlaveToTheSauce_ i would recommend not using any of my code at all
21:58 SlaveToTheSauce_ use my ideas, sure
21:59 SlaveToTheSauce_ the parametrization of it is well formed i think
21:59 SlaveToTheSauce_ but the implementation is very halfassed
21:59 SlaveToTheSauce_ it's not worth recycling
21:59 JEntrep What do you want me to do with all this code I cloned? D:
22:00 SlaveToTheSauce_ burn it with fire
22:00 JEntrep D:
22:00 SlaveToTheSauce_ or at least, don't expect me to support it
22:01 SlaveToTheSauce_ i'll talk about the theory but i do not condone the use of my code
22:01 JEntrep Well if you want me to take a wack at writing a little something for the little guy
22:01 JEntrep I will need specs :P
22:01 JEntrep can you link me to your blog again?
22:01 SlaveToTheSauce_ workman-industries.net
22:01 JEntrep is everything listed?
22:01 SlaveToTheSauce_ no
22:01 JEntrep I will ahve to grab the manufacturers data sheets hopefully
22:01 SlaveToTheSauce_ for what?
22:01 JEntrep To play?
22:02 JEntrep I like robots.
22:02 SlaveToTheSauce_ there's custom electronics involved, for which i never made a schematic and never will
22:02 SlaveToTheSauce_ you aren't going to recreate my setup in full and i don't think you should
22:03 JEntrep :(
22:03 SlaveToTheSauce_ because if you're going to be following an existing design it should be a decent one
22:03 SlaveToTheSauce_ otherwise you should be figuring stuff out for yourself to make your own bad one!
22:03 JEntrep :(
22:04 SlaveToTheSauce_ i'll answer specific questions about my setup but don't have the time or drive to make full documentation for it
22:04 JEntrep what ever happened to team effort? :(
22:04 JEntrep I can make the docs :P
22:04 JEntrep just need some pictures or something?
22:04 JEntrep :P
22:04 SlaveToTheSauce_ well you have pictures
22:04 SlaveToTheSauce_ full cad drawings
22:04 SlaveToTheSauce_ full source
22:05 SlaveToTheSauce_ that's a pretty good start.
22:05 JEntrep I do? :O
22:05 JEntrep Oh, the SCAD?
22:05 SlaveToTheSauce_ yes
22:06 JEntrep why do you think your design is bad?
22:06 JEntrep Have you personally seen a better hexapod?
22:07 SlaveToTheSauce_ every bit is thrown together, only the frame is on its second iteration
22:07 SlaveToTheSauce_ everything else is the first thrown together prototype
22:07 SlaveToTheSauce_ there are very significant improvements to be made before it will stop sucking
22:10 JEntrep what's wrong with the walk in the video?
22:11 SlaveToTheSauce_ i need to write an iterative solver for the inverse kinematics
22:11 SlaveToTheSauce_ i need to write motion control that uses the jacobian
22:11 SlaveToTheSauce_ ideally i need to replace the servo electronics so i get position and torque feedback
22:12 SlaveToTheSauce_ etc etc
22:13 SlaveToTheSauce_ hell the control isnt even onboard right now
22:13 SlaveToTheSauce_ just firing the joint angles over the radio is not acceptable
22:13 JEntrep lol
22:14 JEntrep what is the Jacobian going to do for your motion control?
22:14 SlaveToTheSauce_ it will allow me to linearly interpolate motion
22:14 SlaveToTheSauce_ instead of assuming that linear interpolations of the angles are linear motion
22:15 JEntrep linear interpolations of the angles?
22:15 JEntrep Which movement?
22:15 SlaveToTheSauce_ all of it
22:16 SlaveToTheSauce_ well and it'll let me do more than linear interpolation, i'll be able to define curves for motion and follow them closely using polynomial interpolations
22:16 JEntrep not sure why you need curves for motion
22:16 JEntrep how are you going to get this thing to be autonomous?
22:16 JEntrep Like to what degree?
22:17 SlaveToTheSauce_ i want to stick a soc on there and do vision with it
22:17 SlaveToTheSauce_ SLAM
22:17 SlaveToTheSauce_ etc
22:17 JEntrep SLAM?
22:17 JEntrep Never heard of it
22:17 SlaveToTheSauce_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_mapping
22:17 JEntrep googled it
22:17 JEntrep :p
22:18 JEntrep so computer vision
22:20 rue_shop2 the computer never saw it comming
22:21 JEntrep Sauce
22:21 JEntrep What is a "proper servo"
22:21 JEntrep >>I find myself desiring the feature set of proper robotics servos – position and torque feedback and control parameters that can be tuned
22:21 JEntrep "
22:22 SlaveToTheSauce_ basically something with a serial interface
22:22 SlaveToTheSauce_ instead of those asinine pulses
22:22 SlaveToTheSauce_ an interface providing the things i listed
22:23 SlaveToTheSauce_ the dynamixel servos are what i had in mind when i wrote that but it's since come to my attention that they actually have some serious problems with their comms code
22:23 SlaveToTheSauce_ so there might be nothing remotely affordable that fits the bill
22:24 JEntrep what is wrong with their communications?
22:25 SlaveToTheSauce_ they have trouble with stuff like responding after a delay, apparently
22:26 SlaveToTheSauce_ i don't know the details but someone whose competence i trust was raging about them
22:26 JEntrep are their comms reprogrammable?
22:26 SlaveToTheSauce_ well it'd be a question of reprogramming the onboard microcontroller
22:26 SlaveToTheSauce_ which runs closed-source software
22:26 SlaveToTheSauce_ so it would involve serious reversing or reimplementing the whole thing
22:29 SlaveToTheSauce_ http://kondo-robot.com/product-category/servomotor/krs these might do, no feedback but at least serial communication
22:29 SlaveToTheSauce_ as long as the parameters can be tuned they'd probably do
22:31 JEntrep feed-forward design
22:31 JEntrep as long as you have their specs
22:32 SlaveToTheSauce_ which is just a question of deciphering the moonrunes
22:32 JEntrep what is a servo?
22:32 JEntrep A motor?
22:32 SlaveToTheSauce_ it's a lot more than just a motor
22:32 JEntrep well obviously
22:32 JEntrep but I am da noob here
22:33 JEntrep you exprain
22:33 SlaveToTheSauce_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servomotor
22:34 JEntrep instead of having so many servos
22:34 JEntrep couldn't you have designed it with motors and belts?
22:34 JEntrep :P
22:35 SlaveToTheSauce_ and what, do position control with clutches?
22:35 SlaveToTheSauce_ that idea is bad and you should feel bad
22:35 JEntrep I have no idea what clutches are
22:35 JEntrep So I don't feel bad
22:36 MrCurious SlaveToTheSauce_: how did the foobar drama play out? he all solved up?
22:37 SlaveToTheSauce_ i have no more information than you do
22:39 JEntrep seriously though ... why would you need a clutch?
22:39 SlaveToTheSauce_ what are you proposing then
22:39 SlaveToTheSauce_ a motor for each joint, just moved to the body?
22:39 SlaveToTheSauce_ how does that change anything at all
22:39 JEntrep It gives you control over input
22:40 JEntrep and output
22:40 SlaveToTheSauce_ what
22:40 JEntrep you can do sensorless vector control
22:40 JEntrep rather than relying on passing parameters to an encoder
22:41 JEntrep with the servo you are passing a comm
22:41 JEntrep with motors you can do the control yourself
22:42 JEntrep right?
22:42 SlaveToTheSauce_ that makes so little sense i am having trouble addressing it
22:42 SlaveToTheSauce_ lemme go make a cup of tea
22:43 JEntrep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_control_(motor)
22:43 JEntrep :P
22:44 JEntrep SlaveToTheSauce_, >> "position and torque feedback and control parameters that can be tuned"
22:44 JEntrep That is what you are looking for
22:45 JEntrep but you're limited by the servo encoder not the motor
22:45 JEntrep a motor is just a motor is just a motor
22:45 SlaveToTheSauce_ i know what vector control is
22:46 SlaveToTheSauce_ you're talking about making a servo out of a brushless motor
22:46 JEntrep nope
22:46 JEntrep no servo
22:46 SlaveToTheSauce_ yes
22:46 JEntrep in that it acts as a servo mechanism?
22:46 SlaveToTheSauce_ a servomotor is just a motor that has a mechanism to do precise control
22:46 JEntrep yes but the control would be at the board
22:46 SlaveToTheSauce_ so?
22:47 JEntrep so your tuning could be more precise :)
22:47 JEntrep and faster
22:47 JEntrep and more concurrent
22:47 JEntrep and less points of failure
22:47 JEntrep and cheaper
22:47 SlaveToTheSauce_ it is none of those things
22:47 JEntrep why not? :(
22:47 MrCurious and self replicating..
22:48 rue_shop2 rue, the directions weren't wrong, your robot is assembled inside out...
22:48 rue_shop2 which explains the gripper...
22:48 JEntrep I am not sure what makes a better servo then Sauce :(
22:48 SlaveToTheSauce_ it would involve sourcing and purchasing brushless motors of the appropriate specifications
22:48 JEntrep :P
22:48 SlaveToTheSauce_ building or sourcing custom torque converters
22:48 SlaveToTheSauce_ rebuilding the frame
22:49 SlaveToTheSauce_ making 3-phase motor control electronics
22:49 JEntrep You said to burn it with fire ;P
22:49 SlaveToTheSauce_ and would give me exactly dickall compared to just replacing the electronics in the servos i have
22:49 SlaveToTheSauce_ which is what i am going to do
22:50 JEntrep Dont burn poor Hexi :(
22:50 JEntrep What did he ever do to you!? D:
22:50 SlaveToTheSauce_ i was referring to the software
22:51 SlaveToTheSauce_ and the electronics i guess, but you don't have the details of those anyway
22:51 JEntrep you have a cool frame btw :D
22:51 SlaveToTheSauce_ also doing feedback at the motor windings would assume 0 slippage and backlash, both of which are false
22:51 SlaveToTheSauce_ AND give no absolute position feedback
22:51 SlaveToTheSauce_ which is what is required
22:51 rue_shop2 heh, I think this is gonna work
22:52 SlaveToTheSauce_ the only way to make it feasible is to use direct drive motors
22:52 SlaveToTheSauce_ which is what some projects at MIT are doing
22:52 SlaveToTheSauce_ and you know what? they're $10k a pop
22:52 SlaveToTheSauce_ not even including the electronics
22:53 JEntrep I have no idea what a direct drive motor is
22:53 SlaveToTheSauce_ and they probably use encoders for feedback anyway
22:53 SlaveToTheSauce_ a motor with no torque converter
22:53 SlaveToTheSauce_ directly connected to the actuator
22:53 SlaveToTheSauce_ they're fancy ass multipole brushless motors
22:53 SlaveToTheSauce_ and can be directed to do super fancy shit like have variable compliance
22:54 SlaveToTheSauce_ did i mention they're $10k each?
22:54 JEntrep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk3qvF4__kc
22:54 JEntrep I still have no idea what it is
22:55 SlaveToTheSauce_ there's no gears between the motor's shaft and the thing you want to spin
22:55 SlaveToTheSauce_ i don't know how to make it any simpler than that
22:55 SlaveToTheSauce_ it's just a bigass brushless motor
22:56 JEntrep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdi8fL5dWYU
22:58 SlaveToTheSauce_ http://biomimetics.mit.edu:8100/wordpress/videos/
23:01 SlaveToTheSauce_ http://biomimetics.mit.edu:8100/wordpress/research-2/high-torque-density-motor/
23:01 SlaveToTheSauce_ okay not direct drive but close
23:01 SlaveToTheSauce_ 5.1:1
23:01 SlaveToTheSauce_ er 5.8
23:06 SlaveToTheSauce_ something like that would obviously be ideal but my wallet cannot stomach it
23:07 JEntrep 5.8?
23:07 SlaveToTheSauce_ the gear ratio
23:19 rue_shop2 I made two AWESOME belt pullies, it only took me 2 hours
23:24 SlaveToTheSauce_ so much for no custom parts
23:24 SlaveToTheSauce_ you should finish the cnc and stop even paying lip service to the idea
23:24 SlaveToTheSauce_ and then post complete cad diagrams for your robots :)
23:28 rue_shop2 I used a napkin aided drawing as a template for cutting out the base of my robot
23:28 rue_shop2 I'v just worked out the required material for a piece of the hand
23:28 rue_shop2 now I'll draw lines out from it till it looks sufficiently cool
23:30 JEntrep NAD is top of the line graphics software :O
23:30 JEntrep How did you get a hold of it?
23:33 rue_shop2 I was introduced to it at the coffee shop
23:35 JEntrep O_O
23:39 rue_shop2 hmm, ok I can get every dimention out but the last one
23:46 rue_shop2 wrist is getting heavy
23:47 rue_shop2 maybe I should stop using uranium
23:52 rue_shop2 oo that last one was a bit close
23:54 rue_shop2 this stupid robot is gonna use up all my 6mm bar stock