#robotics Logs
Apr 03 2014
#robotics Calendar
00:18 rue_shop2 your who?
00:18 JEntrep :P
00:22 GargantuaSauce JEntrep: i use ebay, aliexpress, dx mostly
00:22 JEntrep your who?
00:22 GargantuaSauce mirror mirror on the wall, who is the sauciest of them all?
00:22 JEntrep Me
00:23 GargantuaSauce wrong, it's me
00:23 GargantuaSauce and the other me also
00:23 JEntrep WRONG!
00:23 JEntrep It's you.
00:23 JEntrep and the other you also.
00:23 JEntrep Get it right.
00:23 GargantuaSauce and the metal band in the video is absu
00:23 JEntrep From Texas :)
00:24 JEntrep I just googled them :P
00:26 JEntrep what is aliexpress??
00:27 GargantuaSauce a chinese ecommerce site
00:27 rue_shop2 chinese wholesaler site
00:28 GargantuaSauce somewhat like ebay but with a much bigger scope. they have wholesale and business-to-consumer and consumer-to-consumer branches
00:28 GargantuaSauce and do escrow
00:29 rue_shop2 which means that if you dont get your stuff, they dont get their money
00:29 rue_shop2 so packages usually arrive registered
00:30 JEntrep better than amazon :P
00:32 rue_shop2 isn't even ebay better than amazon?
00:32 GargantuaSauce amazon is pretty awesome if you're actually buying from amazon
00:33 JEntrep amazon is good when you give them money? :O
00:33 JEntrep seems legit
00:34 rue_shop2 I'v heard a lot of stories of nonrefundable nondeliveries
00:34 JEntrep Sauce I want to work on your hexapod with you :3
00:34 GargantuaSauce can you build electronics
00:35 JEntrep why doesn't someone offer an escrow service for amazon?
00:35 JEntrep I guess because Amazon would never agree to it xD
00:35 GargantuaSauce amazon is an excrow service
00:35 JEntrep Which is why they would never agree to it
00:36 JEntrep hmmmm
00:36 JEntrep That might not actually be a bad idea for a business
00:36 ntrep will have to ponder on that one for a w
00:37 GargantuaSauce financial services are pretty lucrative, oddly enough
00:37 GargantuaSauce you just need stupid amounts of capital to enter the game
00:37 JEntrep :/
00:37 JEntrep Oh and no I cannot build electronics Sauce
00:37 JEntrep I was talking about code :3
00:37 GargantuaSauce well that's where i'm super solid
00:37 JEntrep LOL :P
00:38 GargantuaSauce you can dick with my source if you want
00:38 JEntrep If its not analog electronics I can help :P
00:38 JEntrep You working with any FPGAs?
00:38 JEntrep :P
00:38 GargantuaSauce https://bitbucket.org/Ultrasauce/robots/src
00:38 JEntrep I actually was just curious of the specs for the whole system
00:39 GargantuaSauce onboard is an stm32f4
00:39 JEntrep But I can just grab the specs from the manufacturers?
00:39 JEntrep do you have any documentation? :D
00:39 JEntrep ;P
00:40 GargantuaSauce my source is pretty readable
00:40 GargantuaSauce that and the blog is all you get :V
00:40 JEntrep Yeah I know :P
00:41 JEntrep Its completely controlled by I/O inputs right?
00:41 JEntrep No autonomy?
00:41 GargantuaSauce presently yes
00:42 GargantuaSauce there is some source for onboard control there but i have it disabled because i wrote it for 3dof legs
00:42 JEntrep you are putting a laser on this thing? :O
00:42 JEntrep I knew it was a military contract
00:42 JEntrep ;)
00:42 GargantuaSauce it's currently getting the leg angles over the radio from the pc stimulator program
00:42 JEntrep Stimulator?
00:43 GargantuaSauce /pc/stimulator
00:43 JEntrep Is this a new version of "Turning a computer on"?
00:43 GargantuaSauce it stimulates my robots ;)
00:43 JEntrep I'm sure
00:43 GargantuaSauce anyway the laser thing in first-steps (which barely deserves to be public) is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OELxDGtESMI
00:44 GargantuaSauce i don't plan on putting it on the hex because it's got an ac power supply
00:44 JEntrep Ha! i love how you have 1 dislike on the video XD
00:44 GargantuaSauce did not notice that
00:44 JEntrep not sure why anyone would bother :P
00:45 GargantuaSauce i do plan on putting a 25mW laser with a line projector on the hex, for doing parallax depth estimation with a camera
00:45 GargantuaSauce and then doing SLAM using that
00:45 JEntrep cool an IIC driver :P
00:45 GargantuaSauce it's fucking bad don't use it
00:46 GargantuaSauce need to switch to interrupt-driven state machines instead of polled garbage
00:47 JEntrep polled?
00:47 GargantuaSauce spinloops blocking on a flag in the peripheral status register
00:48 GargantuaSauce those flags can instead be used to trigger interrupts
00:48 GargantuaSauce for asynchronous operation
00:48 JEntrep spinloops? :P
00:48 GargantuaSauce while with no body
00:48 GargantuaSauce a huge waste of resources
00:49 GargantuaSauce basically the code needs to be 'turned inside out'
00:49 GargantuaSauce because the intermediate state operation is implicitly stored in the instruction pointer
00:49 JEntrep I also discovered this through your repo: http://www.openscad.org/
00:49 JEntrep :P
00:49 GargantuaSauce yes openscad rules
00:49 GargantuaSauce the language is kind of awful but i really prefer it to GUI cads
00:50 JEntrep It is 100 percent scripted?
00:50 GargantuaSauce i want to integrate a layer on top of it into my pc software
00:50 GargantuaSauce yes
00:50 GargantuaSauce well you can input a dxf if you want
00:50 GargantuaSauce but my stuff is 100% primitives and code
00:51 JEntrep can you extend the primitives>
00:51 JEntrep *?
00:51 GargantuaSauce what do you mean
00:51 JEntrep oh nm
00:51 JEntrep you are talking about language primitives
00:51 JEntrep I was thinking commands
00:51 GargantuaSauce i mean geometric primitives
00:51 JEntrep like commands + arguments
00:51 JEntrep oh, then that IS what I am talking about :P
00:52 GargantuaSauce well you can write modules and such
00:52 JEntrep Yeah, can you create your own primitive files?
00:52 JEntrep Ah, okay
00:52 JEntrep are modules just sequence of primitive calls?
00:52 JEntrep nm
00:52 JEntrep I can just look into the docs :P
00:52 GargantuaSauce or at my disgusting code
00:53 JEntrep LOL :P
00:53 GargantuaSauce you can make a hierarchy of transformations and there's loops and stuff
00:53 JEntrep Kewl :P
00:53 GargantuaSauce yeah when i said my code is legible i meant my c and c++. my openscad is gross
00:53 JEntrep I just know how to use AutoCAD and create Scripts, Macros, commands, etc.
00:53 JEntrep :P
00:54 JEntrep How much of the CAD program is used to control the vehicle?
00:54 GargantuaSauce the program has no cad currently
00:54 GargantuaSauce it's just control
00:54 JEntrep Huh?
00:54 GargantuaSauce my program, stimulator
00:54 JEntrep I thought the C would be control?
00:55 JEntrep I am missing something
00:55 JEntrep :P
00:55 GargantuaSauce the onboard code currently does not exert control, it just receives joint angles over the packet radio and sends them to the servos
00:55 JEntrep er .. where do I see the release notes html page rendered? :P
00:56 GargantuaSauce there is room for onboard control but i haven't updated it for 4dof legs yet
00:56 JEntrep dof?
00:56 GargantuaSauce degrees of freedom
00:56 GargantuaSauce and i use the pc software for developing the kinematics and control because a virtual robot can't destroy itself
00:56 GargantuaSauce so it currently has full control over the motion
00:57 JEntrep what is the communication link?
00:57 JEntrep radio?
00:57 JEntrep what protocol?
00:58 GargantuaSauce yeah packet radio with my own shitty protocol that needs to be developed further
00:58 JEntrep :P
00:58 GargantuaSauce nrf24l01+ radios
00:58 rue_more GargantuaSauce, how did you optimize your protocol?
00:58 GargantuaSauce i didn't
00:58 rue_more that features does it have?
00:58 JEntrep yes can you make a short doc on the protocol? :P
00:59 GargantuaSauce it's not worth documenting
00:59 JEntrep :(
00:59 JEntrep Everything is worth documenting
00:59 GargantuaSauce look at onboard/hexapod/main.c and pc/stimulator/IKWalker.cpp
00:59 GargantuaSauce nope
00:59 JEntrep Its a fucking crab robot FFS!
00:59 GargantuaSauce it's worth discarding and doing better
00:59 GargantuaSauce the protocol isnt even really a protocol, it's just four packets that consist of a sequence number and some floats, and then a checksum at the very end
00:59 rue_more they riazsed the price of electricity
00:59 GargantuaSauce very rudimentary
01:00 rue_more its now worth it to get solar
01:01 MrCurious OI! ROBO-SAPIENS... SEEN THIS ONE YET? http://www.minnowboard.org/meet-minnowboard-max/
01:01 JEntrep Hi, I am a hexapod with 4 DOF
01:01 JEntrep LOL :P
01:01 MrCurious sry for caps
01:01 JEntrep they raised the price of electricity where?
01:01 GargantuaSauce cool, bit pricey though
01:02 MrCurious $129 for a dua core atom on a tiny hacker friendly board?
01:02 GargantuaSauce cubieboard 2 is cheaper and has more io
01:03 MrCurious cubieboard is arm 1ghz
01:03 GargantuaSauce the atom has a little more grunt i guess
01:03 MrCurious 32 bit this is intel
01:04 GargantuaSauce and you could run dos on it probably attn rue_more
01:04 JEntrep Sauce what is nrf?
01:05 GargantuaSauce oh uefi, guess not
01:05 GargantuaSauce nrf24l01+, wireless packet radio
01:05 GargantuaSauce n = nordic semiconductor
01:05 GargantuaSauce those radios are ridiculously cheap
01:06 MrCurious dos? srsly... linux would do better
01:06 GargantuaSauce that was a dig at rue
01:06 MrCurious ahhhh
01:06 GargantuaSauce for that reason
01:07 JEntrep those radios do 2 MbpS
01:07 JEntrep :P
01:07 MrCurious rfm12b, nrf24... all are very cheap now
01:07 JEntrep Sauce do you have to turn your wi-fi off to use your hexapod?
01:07 JEntrep :P
01:07 GargantuaSauce hah funny story
01:07 GargantuaSauce it works fine here with 2 wifi networks
01:07 GargantuaSauce i took it to the university, NOPE.
01:08 GargantuaSauce but it's ok now because i moved it out of the legal spectrum
01:08 GargantuaSauce shhhh don't tell industry canada
01:08 JEntrep LOL xD
01:08 MrCurious your hex acts as a wifi hotspot right
01:09 MrCurious to facilitate road show connections
01:09 GargantuaSauce no but i might have to switch to wifi eventually
01:09 MrCurious removing the dependency on friendly networks
01:09 GargantuaSauce i want to do video telemetry and that's going to be hard to squeeze through those little radios
01:09 JEntrep you aren't going to squeeze that through those radios
01:09 JEntrep :P
01:09 GargantuaSauce you'd be surprised
01:10 JEntrep Not unless you want to construct your own MIMO scheme
01:10 JEntrep xD
01:10 MrCurious sure he will....
01:10 MrCurious 32x32 b&w
01:10 MrCurious although they do do 115kbps right
01:11 GargantuaSauce it could do like 10fps 320x240 5:6:5 just fine
01:11 JEntrep ._.
01:11 GargantuaSauce and yes i actually have considered multiple transceivers
01:11 MrCurious onboard pre-processing/feature detection? or offboard
01:12 GargantuaSauce oh if i shat all over the video like that it'd have to be onboard
01:12 GargantuaSauce and i plan to do it onboard anyway of course
01:12 GargantuaSauce because autonomy is on my list
01:12 JEntrep I have a better idea :)
01:12 GargantuaSauce but yeah wifi will handle video much nicer
01:12 JEntrep Wait ... what do you want video for?
01:12 GargantuaSauce remote control, duh
01:12 JEntrep image recoginition?
01:12 JEntrep Oh
01:13 JEntrep RC
01:13 GargantuaSauce or at least seeing through its eyes
01:13 GargantuaSauce i have an oculus rift devkit and having stereo video from it would be fucking choice
01:13 JEntrep It's a crab.
01:13 JEntrep meh
01:13 GargantuaSauce with the motion tracking controlling the posture?
01:14 JEntrep I say move it completely into the illegal spectrum and keep your transmitter power REALLY low :P
01:14 GargantuaSauce don't you meh me, i see the bulge in your pants
01:14 JEntrep Of course I don't think you have the transcievers for that :P
01:14 JEntrep And I will never show my bulge! :O
01:14 GargantuaSauce 802.11ac would be ideal
01:15 GargantuaSauce and a big grunty onboard machine like one of the NUCs or something
01:15 MrCurious could get 3 trancievers in different spectrums, and split image across them R to 1, b to another, g to the thirds
01:15 MrCurious image degradation might be graceful then
01:15 GargantuaSauce those nrf24l01s support about 50 channels
01:15 GargantuaSauce i could just use 50 of them!
01:16 MrCurious was thinking rfm12b, they come in 3 flavors 454, 800 something and 900 something
01:16 JEntrep 50?
01:16 JEntrep No way!
01:16 JEntrep 3 each!
01:16 JEntrep :P
01:16 JEntrep And yes you could use 50 transcievers
01:16 JEntrep :P
01:16 GargantuaSauce i've considered uhf because it certainly has better range
01:16 JEntrep I recommend using 8 radio transcievers on the device
01:16 rue_more armyofevilrobots, ping
01:17 JEntrep and looking into 8 * 8 MIMO
01:17 JEntrep If you want to get crazy
01:17 JEntrep :P
01:17 GargantuaSauce i am not going to engineer my own rf comms
01:17 MrCurious will you be arming the beastie? taser? stunner? airsoft, flame thrower, chainsaw pincers?
01:17 rue_more oh too late
01:17 GargantuaSauce not for a year or two at least
01:17 JEntrep but you will need a basestation with an 8 antenna setup as well
01:17 GargantuaSauce because if i start to do that
01:17 GargantuaSauce i will make a combined comms transceiver + passive radar
01:18 GargantuaSauce and that's a pretty big project irrespective of the platform
01:18 GargantuaSauce so it's on the bucket list
01:18 JEntrep passive radar? :O
01:18 GargantuaSauce and you hardly need huge MIMO setups to get very decent throughput with OFDM
01:18 GargantuaSauce look at wifi
01:18 JEntrep Look at LTE
01:18 JEntrep :P
01:18 JEntrep Well real LTE
01:19 JEntrep Most LTE is faster than many home internet connections
01:19 JEntrep OFDM is not your problem
01:19 JEntrep Itnerference is
01:19 JEntrep And penetration
01:19 GargantuaSauce ofdm can be used to transparently avoid interference
01:19 JEntrep You can't let your little guy go too remote on GHz comms
01:20 GargantuaSauce and yeah that's true
01:20 JEntrep OFDM can't do shit if 100 people around you are using wi-fi XD
01:20 GargantuaSauce i dont care about making it work everywhere, just my living room is fine
01:20 JEntrep Unless, that is you really want to build an uber fancy signal processing setup
01:20 GargantuaSauce eventually
01:21 GargantuaSauce maybe after i'm rich
01:21 JEntrep :P
01:21 JEntrep Anyways, off the radio topic
01:21 JEntrep Hwo did you say you are using CAD again?
01:22 GargantuaSauce look at my openscad code
01:22 GargantuaSauce that's it
01:22 JEntrep which file?
01:22 GargantuaSauce https://bitbucket.org/Ultrasauce/robots/src/149d2b91944ae2d4f30394af04199c36192eed71/scad/hexapod/4hex.scad?at=master
01:23 GargantuaSauce that is this http://workman-industries.net/images/hexapod/4dof-scad1.png
01:24 JEntrep the SCAD files are showing me what you draw
01:24 JEntrep What is the relationship to the controls?
01:24 GargantuaSauce the c++ program in pc/stimulator
01:25 rue_more who iknows where I can get HS322 servos cheap
01:25 GuShH_ did someone say relationship?
01:25 GargantuaSauce it's what the laptop is running in the hex video
01:25 ShH_ pulls his pants
01:25 rue_more <$10 ea
01:25 GuShH_ rue did you check that arm out
01:26 rue_more which one
01:26 rue_more ?
01:26 GuShH_ the one at the yard
01:26 GuShH_ so what's a milling bar
01:26 rue_more it was gone
01:26 rue_more oh right 1 min
01:26 GuShH_ maybe a milling head? I don't know what a bar is
01:27 GuShH_ for lathes I can think milling vise, head...
01:27 GuShH_ I gotta check out that knee mill before someone else takes it
01:27 JEntrep Sauce, what is bulldoze??
01:27 GuShH_ but it's a 6hr drive, plus the expense of the shipping
01:27 GuShH_ hrmm plus I don't have a place for it, I need to clear stuff out of the garage first
01:27 rue_more bash: bach: command not found
01:27 GuShH_ and add the cost of collets, drawbar, the power feed repair and mills, etc.
01:27 GargantuaSauce it's a shitty design involving functions that do a whole bunch of stuff without a huge amount of logical segregation
01:27 rue_more ^^ I have to teach my computer about music
01:28 GargantuaSauce i'm mocking myself in the code as a reminder to eventually do it better
01:28 JEntrep :(
01:28 JEntrep I just want to understand this sim_old program it seems then :P
01:28 JEntrep can you give me a bsaic overview
01:28 JEntrep *basic
01:28 JEntrep ??
01:29 GargantuaSauce look at IKWalker.cpp and WalkerGait.cpp
01:29 GargantuaSauce those are the ones that matter
01:29 GuShH_ darn I can't sleep and I have to get a bunch of stuff done early today :(
01:29 GargantuaSauce the rest is just graphics or entirely vestigial
01:29 GargantuaSauce it started out as a halfassed game engine
01:29 JEntrep did you create geometry API for movement types?
01:30 JEntrep ha! A game engine! :P
01:30 GargantuaSauce not really
01:30 GargantuaSauce i just parameterized gaits as a set of phase offsets and scales for each foot
01:30 JEntrep gait?
01:31 JEntrep Sauce, I am actually surprised you haven't shared this project around more xD
01:31 JEntrep It's pretty cool :)
01:31 GargantuaSauce it's too shitty to promote
01:31 GargantuaSauce i have a lot of work to do before it stops sucking
01:31 JEntrep Alpha is always shitty
01:31 JEntrep and this is not even alpha
01:31 JEntrep :P
01:31 GargantuaSauce ya
01:32 JEntrep anyways .. wtf is a gait?
01:32 GargantuaSauce the term gait is slightly misappropriated here as there is no notion of posture in it
01:32 GargantuaSauce but if you watch the video closely you'll notice it's stepping with 3 feet at a time for part of it
01:32 JEntrep http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Elephant_Walking_animated.gif
01:32 GargantuaSauce that's the tripod gait
01:33 GargantuaSauce and then it's stepping with two, which is..what did i call that...ripple?
01:33 JEntrep oh sweet! :D
01:33 JEntrep Learn something new everyday :P
01:33 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/millbar1.jpg
01:33 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/millbar2.jpg
01:33 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm7/p1050938.jpg
01:33 GargantuaSauce you inverted your lathe!
01:34 rue_more :D
01:34 GargantuaSauce workpiece and tool swapped!
01:34 GargantuaSauce dogs and cats living together!
01:34 JEntrep rue_bed, what is that?
01:34 GargantuaSauce mass hysteria!
01:34 JEntrep oops :P
01:34 JEntrep wrong rue
01:34 rue_more I cant count eh number of times I'v had to cut round troughs into workpieces
01:35 rue_more so this time I did it damnit
01:35 GargantuaSauce guess the "right" way would be a holesaw?
01:35 GargantuaSauce but would be a pain
01:35 rue_more some youtube videos I watched a long time ago gave me the idea
01:35 rue_more thats "right"
01:35 rue_more the stability of the cutter surprised me
01:36 GargantuaSauce are those servos really going to suffice for that big arm?
01:36 rue_more with the bit and lockscrew hole, I was sure it would be too weak
01:36 rue_more GargantuaSauce, baaallllannnce
01:36 rue_more arms should be balanced, so they are just moving the load
01:37 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm4/p1010990.jpg
01:37 GargantuaSauce the shoulder joint can't be balanced for every position of the elbow though
01:37 rue_more check out the ABB IRB 1400
01:37 GargantuaSauce it will always be bearing the weight of the arm in some configurations
01:37 rue_more it is
01:37 rue_more its completely balanced
01:37 rue_more if you take off the motors it prettymuch just stays in palce
01:38 GargantuaSauce mkay
01:38 rue_more see the counterweight?
01:38 GargantuaSauce yes
01:38 rue_more balances the top beam
01:38 rue_more and the verticle beam is balanced by those springs
01:38 GuShH_ rue_more: oh I see you are pretending the lathe is a universal mill
01:38 GuShH_ for horizontal milling
01:39 JEntrep I wub this channel :3
01:39 GuShH_ you can do slotting too
01:39 rue_more the ABB robots have what look like big hydraulic cylinders on them, but they aren't they are big air springs
01:39 rue_more GuShH_, DAMNIT YOUR RIGHT!
01:39 GuShH_ I'm more interested in the vise
01:39 rue_more didn't think of that!
01:39 rue_more its just a machinists vise
01:39 GuShH_ most horizontal milling is done for slotting or "planing" (forgot the right word)
01:39 rue_more it seems to be usable for anything
01:40 rue_more Garak, the lower the arm ducks, the more the springs are stretched
01:40 GuShH_ the mill I'm after is a universal with horizontal milling bar
01:40 GuShH_ but also has the vertical head
01:40 GargantuaSauce yeah i get it
01:40 rue_more I'm sure the force curves dont match, but they are close
01:41 GuShH_ hardly anything you can't do with one of those mills + dividing head and tailstock
01:41 GargantuaSauce still seems a little underpowered but i certainly trust your eye for mechanics more than mine
01:41 rue_more http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm5/p1030984.jpg
01:41 GuShH_ rue_more: why is your lathe so clean?
01:41 rue_more unless you have really powerfull actualtors, making a cantalevered arm is just stupid
01:41 GargantuaSauce what's the cartesian thing in the background
01:41 GuShH_ mine has swarf almost up to the chuck in height
01:41 rue_more GuShH_, too much plastic
01:42 rue_more its the new cnc router
01:42 GuShH_ and the floor near the lathe is all shiny from aluminum dust and chips
01:42 rue_more only been working on it for like 10 years now
01:42 GargantuaSauce heh
01:43 rue_more with that servo arm, I have a little more than 2:1 on the gears too
01:43 rue_more I dont need a full 180
01:43 rue_more that new arm is almost 100% prodigy of the lathe
01:44 rue_more almost everything is turned somehow
01:44 GuShH_ lol
01:44 GargantuaSauce are you going to move the servos' pots onto the actual joints?
01:44 rue_more its an interesting assembly, I hope it finishes
01:45 GuShH_ I need to find me one of those vises in good condition
01:45 rue_more THE GOAL was to make something *slightly* better than
01:45 rue_more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU3vraleH0I
01:45 rue_more you know, reasonable construction
01:45 GargantuaSauce ah ok
01:45 GargantuaSauce and actual kinematics i assume
01:45 rue_more as usual, I'm getting carried away
01:45 GargantuaSauce what's one more robot arm in the grand scheme of things?
01:45 rue_more I put the bronze bushings in it cause I had them
01:46 rue_more yea, I was at 6, 7 is only 1/6 more
01:46 GargantuaSauce are you actually doing anything with the old ones
01:46 GuShH_ crap I don't know what these vises are called in spanish
01:46 rue_more well, most of them I'm finishing...
01:46 GargantuaSauce ah :)
01:47 rue_more this week I was SUPPOSED to mount the motors on arm6
01:47 rue_more but I was that stupid video and had to build one on a proper base bearing
01:47 GargantuaSauce i kind of want to make a serial arm but am going to do the parallel stuff i'm interested in first
01:47 rue_more caue mounting a robot arm on the end of the servo is just stupid
01:48 GargantuaSauce i have one really retarded idea for arms and that's a stack of canfield joints or stewart platforms
01:48 GargantuaSauce probably canfield joints because i want to make a bunch of them anyway
01:49 JEntrep wht is a canfield joint?
01:49 JEntrep :P
01:50 GargantuaSauce http://www.cae.tntech.edu/~scanfield/Summary%20information%20on%20Canfield%20Joint/IMG_5049.JPG
01:50 GargantuaSauce it's a 3dof gimbal
01:50 GargantuaSauce two rotation and one translation
01:50 GargantuaSauce no twist
01:50 GargantuaSauce full hemisphere of mobility
01:51 GargantuaSauce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVdwIiGUTMc
01:52 GargantuaSauce the video doesnt show it but it can move 'in and out' too
01:52 GargantuaSauce which is up and down if it's not tilted
01:52 JEntrep yeah i was googling :P
01:52 JEntrep The stewart platform looks like something they would use at a theme park
01:52 JEntrep The "video" rides
01:53 GargantuaSauce yes they're used for simulator platforms, both real and theme parkey
01:53 GargantuaSauce i have one of those in progress also
01:53 JEntrep O_O
01:54 JEntrep Y U BUILD SO MUCH? :O
01:54 GargantuaSauce because it's too cool not to
01:54 JEntrep too cool for school
01:54 GargantuaSauce i know i should focus more
01:54 GargantuaSauce but there is way too much awesome shit to do
01:55 rue_more if I get this arm working I'm gonna work on a way to make it out of more generic pvc peices
01:55 JEntrep HOLY CRAP!
01:55 JEntrep Youtube bugs increasing!
01:55 rue_more see if I can get rid of th gears too
01:55 JEntrep Can't
01:55 JEntrep Skip
01:55 JEntrep Ads
01:55 JEntrep D:
01:56 JEntrep and the font across the whole view had shadows for a bit there
01:56 JEntrep xD
02:13 rue_bed vcx
02:13 rue_bed the
02:13 rue_bed test
02:13 rue_bed ...
02:14 rue_bed the more you build the more mechanical problems you come up with solutions for and the easier it is to build things
02:14 JEntrep true :)
02:14 rue_bed even if you dont finish some things, you will have solved problems that will help you on the next project
02:14 rue_bed then projects just start to put themselfs togethor
02:15 rue_bed my problem is that my projects still have too many custom peices
02:15 JEntrep such as?
02:15 rue_bed a small robot will have 500 parts, 60% of which may take between 10 mins and 45 mins to make
02:16 rue_bed that pvc robot
02:16 JEntrep link?
02:16 JEntrep LOL rue it's just you on a different comp xD
02:16 rue_bed yea
02:16 rue_bed I'm in bed
02:16 JEntrep nighty night :)
02:16 JEntrep don't let the robots bite
02:17 rue_bed anyhow, the base bearing system alone has 6 custom peices
02:17 JEntrep or you know ... terminate you.
02:17 JEntrep pics?
02:17 rue_bed the lower arm prolly took an hour of shaping and cutting
02:17 JEntrep links?
02:17 JEntrep docs?
02:17 rue_bed no, just the 1 pic
02:18 rue_bed http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm7/p1050938.jpg
02:18 rue_bed so far, thats 3 days work
02:18 rue_bed at about 4 hrs/day
02:18 JEntrep yeah, and I ahve no idea what is going on in that pic
02:19 rue_bed :)
02:19 rue_bed on the right is the base for it
02:19 JEntrep base for what?
02:19 JEntrep :P
02:19 rue_bed on the left is the main stand and first arm segment with the second arm segment standing up on the table
02:20 rue_bed the clear peice is the main base plate
02:20 rue_bed the servo is on the bit that swivels, which is new for me
02:20 rue_bed usually my base roation motor is on the static bit of the robot
02:20 rue_bed the upper part of hte arm will clip into the two plates sticking up
02:22 rue_bed it will clip in like this
02:22 rue_bed http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm4/p1000896.jpg
02:22 rue_bed http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm4/p1000897.jpg
02:22 GuShH_ I'm more interested to know what's inside that can, some high-inducing glue?
02:22 JEntrep oh sorry, I was reading up on some network programming :P
02:22 JEntrep Reading your stuff now rue
02:22 rue_bed its pvc glue
02:22 GuShH_ how high inducing is it?
02:23 rue_bed this new pvc arm will be build a lot like arm4
02:23 rue_bed ...just grey pvc glue
02:23 GuShH_ usually big metal cans means some volatile nasty shit is in order.
02:23 GargantuaSauce i love the huge pile of random crap
02:24 GuShH_ like the gallon thinner cans I buy
02:24 GargantuaSauce wish i had a few of those
02:24 GuShH_ they "may or may not contain" toluene, among other nasties.
02:24 rue_bed its a pvc robot, pvc is great cause you can just glue it
02:24 GuShH_ GargantuaSauce: he's going through his pvc phase
02:24 GargantuaSauce better than PLA
02:24 GuShH_ haha
02:24 rue_bed shaping that lower arm segment was a lot harder than it may look
02:25 GuShH_ If you have a lot of PVC then yes
02:25 GargantuaSauce god fucking dammit i need to stop procrastinating on the reprap
02:25 GuShH_ why can't I sleep?
02:25 GuShH_ rue_bed: that big block is also pvc?
02:25 rue_bed yea, need to finish mine
02:25 GuShH_ or acetal
02:26 rue_bed no
02:26 rue_bed its HDPE
02:26 GuShH_ fancy
02:26 rue_bed its sideboard from the arena
02:26 rue_bed scrap
02:26 GuShH_ what arena?
02:26 rue_bed .75"
02:26 rue_bed we built a new icerink a while back
02:26 GuShH_ the quake 3 arena?
02:26 JEntrep PVC can be boiled and bent :P
02:26 rue_bed heatgun works too
02:26 JEntrep just dont boil it too long :P
02:27 GuShH_ I used to heat pvc just so I could fit it against another pipe of the same diameter
02:27 GuShH_ seems about a normal thing to do
02:27 rue_bed most of the problem was getting everything to set straight and square
02:27 GuShH_ used the trick a couple weeks ago to make a fitting for the bilge pump
02:27 GuShH_ awesome tight fitting with no effort.
02:27 rue_bed hmm
02:28 rue_bed need to work out a gripper for that arm
02:28 GuShH_ it has a non standard thread in there I just shoved a chunk of pvc pipe on the outer diameter.
02:28 rue_bed but I dont know how I want to do the wrist
02:28 JEntrep I am still daydreaming ideas of what I would do with a big version of Sauces hexapod :P
02:28 GuShH_ go watch some pr0n for motivation on wrist engineering
02:28 rue_bed I dont have any 90 degree gears left I dont think
02:28 JEntrep rue will your arm be G-Code compatible?
02:28 GuShH_ make your own gears!
02:28 rue_bed yea, I need to come up with a servo controller too
02:29 rue_bed GuShH_, nono, the idea is to work AWAY from custom parts
02:29 GuShH_ but you are using gears already?
02:29 GuShH_ where did those come from
02:29 rue_bed the box
02:29 GuShH_ don't tell me some old printer..
02:29 GuShH_ that's not standard
02:29 GuShH_ people don't own "the box"
02:29 GuShH_ so why not cut a gear then
02:29 rue_bed printers? hah, half those are vcr gears
02:30 GuShH_ whatever I don't scrap...
02:30 GuShH_ people here never throw stuff away
02:30 rue_bed http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/mech/gearbox/gearbox.html
02:30 GuShH_ because everything is so damn expensive they even keep the junk.
02:30 rue_bed that was years ago, I ofcourse have more now
02:31 GuShH_ you might be considered a hoarder by most people
02:31 GuShH_ not that we care
02:32 rue_bed you know how many gears yo have to have before you can find the right ones to fit on a servo and match them up iwht ones of hte right ratio to drive the segments of an arm?
02:32 rue_bed I'v started bagging them by pitch
02:32 GuShH_ over 100
02:32 GuShH_ which is why I said make it instead
02:33 GuShH_ you fit a cutting disk to your milling bar and figure out a way to index the blank.
02:33 GuShH_ or just use a smaller profiled tool
02:33 rgantuaSauce wants a 5 axis
02:33 GargantuaSauce and a pony
02:33 GuShH_ it will work if you increase the swing diameter it won't matter
02:33 GuShH_ they will mesh anyway
02:34 GuShH_ GargantuaSauce: how about a 5 axis cnc pony
02:34 GargantuaSauce that would suffice
02:35 GuShH_ rue_bed: what was the gearbox for?
02:36 JEntrep ponies are kewl robots
02:36 GargantuaSauce think it's a hexapod joint
02:37 JEntrep the Shopbot cnc is only 5000 :P
02:37 JEntrep Well maybe another 1000 with accessories
02:37 GuShH_ what's shopbot
02:37 GuShH_ sounds like some hipster shit to me
02:37 GargantuaSauce yeah but i can't BUY a cnc
02:37 JEntrep some 5 axis CNC I found via the googles
02:37 GuShH_ shopn00b
02:37 GargantuaSauce gotta spend 8 years building it
02:37 GuShH_ and another 8 tweaking it
02:38 GuShH_ better start with a tool you can use manually, then work from there.
02:38 JEntrep what happened to reverse engineering?
02:38 JEntrep Companies were built on that shit! :O
02:38 GuShH_ what would you like to RE?
02:38 JEntrep your mother
02:38 JEntrep I kid, I kid
02:38 GuShH_ companies still thrive on RE.
02:38 JEntrep :P
02:38 ShH_ sh
02:39 GuShH_ 4:21AM can't sleep... this is why I need a super bike.
02:39 GuShH_ So I can rev it across the highway at over 10k RPM to calm my nerves.
02:40 GuShH_ A girlfriend might work, but be a lot more expensive come to think of it.
02:40 JEntrep I want some Sushi
02:42 GuShH_ Ok?
02:43 GuShH_ wtf 10k usd for a wrecked 737? http://vehiculo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-497990120-avion-737-sabreliner-dc-9-smotor-_JM
02:43 JEntrep Why Japan make so much robot?
02:43 JEntrep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBcfpeiM-lg
02:43 GuShH_ no avionics, no engine and it can't be licensed anymore...
02:44 GuShH_ so why the FUCK would you spend 10k USD on that piece of SHIT beats me.
02:48 JEntrep Well I am sleepy
03:41 GuShH_ "Adam’s evidence for Morgan Freeman actually being Satan: pretty cool, wears earrings, bangs 19 year old chicks." lol
09:14 rue_more I been thinking, I'm gonna test the hobby servo force feedback thing this afternoon
09:30 GargantuaSauce with current sensing?
09:30 rue_more yes and no
09:30 rue_more you dont measure the current
09:30 rue_more you measure the length of the current pulse
09:31 rue_more the longer the pulse, the more error the servo is correcting
09:32 GargantuaSauce I feel like that isn't necessary proportional to the exerted torque but sounds interesting give it a try!
09:32 rue_more it will be
09:32 rue_more because if there is no force on the servo, it will have a really short drive pulse
09:33 rue_more if there is force on it, its posisiton will be out, and it'll be correcting with a longer drive pulse
09:44 cjdavies Can anybody give any pointers to a solution for a 'robot' that moves in a straight line over ~30ft indoors at a constant speed?
09:45 cjdavies I was thinking a 'rail' made of plastic piping with motors/rubber wheels that sit on the pipes & propel a car along?
09:45 cjdavies The 'payload' is a smartphone, which in this idea would be suspended between the rails
09:46 rue_more you could do a track, yes
09:48 cjdavies Ah, I think motorized camera rails might give me some good design ideas
09:48 cjdavies Just need to make it substantially longer
09:56 armyofevilrobots @rue_more; ;friend of mine just gave me a laser line scanner :O
09:56 armyofevilrobots Gonna mount it on the CNC, see if I can hack together a 3d scanner.
16:35 JEntrep yo!
16:35 JEntrep what up? wut up? wut up?
18:07 GuShH_ rue_more: yey, got the 18W water pump, this one rocks!
18:07 GuShH_ it's not high pressure at over one meter height, but it's more than you would use on just about any situation with these lathes
18:07 GuShH_ I plan to use a T joint to divert flow so I can adjust it
18:08 GuShH_ big plastic jug with the fluid, couple hoses and it should be good to go.
18:08 GuShH_ might add a control switch later, you reckon these could be driven with a trimmer chopper circuit?
18:19 JEntrep what's that for GuShH_ ? :)
18:24 JEntrep ??
18:39 GuShH_ JEntrep: coolant for the lathe
18:40 GuShH_ if it works well and the mill doesn't have the built in pump I'll duplicate the setup for it
18:42 JEntrep Sweet! :D
18:42 JEntrep What kind of work are you going to use the lathe for?
18:48 GuShH_ JEntrep: 40 inch titanium drilldos
18:48 GuShH_ diamond tipped.
18:48 GuShH_ playboy approved.
18:50 JEntrep :D
18:57 armyofevilrobots drilldos. lol.
18:57 GuShH_ clearly a joke.
18:58 GuShH_ UNLESS there's a market for such things.
18:58 ShH_ promptly calls De
18:59 armyofevilrobots titanium: good choice; way lower coefficient of thermal conductivity than say stainless. Less bioactive too.
19:03 GuShH_ what can I say, I'm a natural.
19:06 JEntrep copper would be leserer bioactive
19:06 JEntrep *lesserer
19:07 f00bar80 I have this arm can't raise up, https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7py5jjq1933aja/2014-04-03%2023.02.14.mp4 , the gripper's weight is 0.160 Kg , the meccano arms are 15 cm long and 0.018 Kg , the Servo I'm using is 7.5 kg.cm which should be sufficient for 0.160+0.018KgX18cm = 3.2 Kg.cm , any idea what's wrong or if i need a more bigger servo?
19:08 JEntrep too heavy
19:09 JEntrep seems to be a matter of torque
19:09 JEntrep but idk :P
19:11 GuShH_ JEntrep: copper is a no-no
19:11 JEntrep no no for what?
19:11 GuShH_ drilldos
19:11 ShH_ chuc
19:11 JEntrep Bad for the vagina? :/
19:12 GuShH_ U
19:12 GuShH_ No comment.
19:12 JEntrep When did this become bio-robotics?
19:12 JEntrep WTF do you mean no comment?
19:12 JEntrep I am going to start calling you Dr. Drilldo
19:12 GuShH_ NO
19:12 GuShH_ Dr Drill instead of Phil haha
19:13 JEntrep Nope
19:13 JEntrep Dr. Dilldo
19:13 JEntrep oops
19:13 JEntrep Drilldo
19:13 JEntrep :P
19:13 GuShH_ DrillDon't
19:14 JEntrep Actually we could have discussions about bio-robotics
19:14 JEntrep nano-bots in the body? :P
19:16 JEntrep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanorobotics
19:28 peeps[work] hrm, wondering if I should get this lathe http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-x-10-inch-precision-mini-lathe-93212.html
19:29 peeps[work] someone is selling a used one locally for $300, it looks like perfectly new condition in the pics. says it has only been used a couple times for aluminum parts
19:29 f00bar80 ppl any comment?
19:30 GargantuaSauce f00bar80: i don't understandwhy you expect that to work in the first place
19:31 f00bar80 GargantuaSauce, why, what's wrong?
19:31 GargantuaSauce the servo is pulling and pushing on the same beam
19:32 f00bar80 GargantuaSauce, so what do you suggest
19:32 GargantuaSauce the same thing i suggested previously
19:32 GargantuaSauce put the servo spline right at the joint
19:33 f00bar80 GargantuaSauce, how this can ake a difference, and how to fix it
19:33 GargantuaSauce i don't know how to explain it because it's ridiculously obvious to me
19:34 GargantuaSauce i think you need to cover the basics before continuing with the project
19:34 GargantuaSauce but i don't have any specific resources for you to look at
19:40 f00bar80 GargantuaSauce, the spline should at the joint instead of one of the screws ?
19:41 GargantuaSauce well the body of the servo needs to be fixed to one segment, and the spline to the other
19:47 f00bar80 GargantuaSauce, so no idea how i can fix it????
19:48 GargantuaSauce i have no idea how to communicate to you the principles that would form the basis for you coming up with the solution yourself
19:52 f00bar80 GargantuaSauce, i'm sorry.. , but just a hint
19:54 f00bar80 GargantuaSauce, should i use a cable to fix the servo on the 2 meccano arms?
20:00 rue_more hey
20:03 rue_more hey
20:06 Faek hey
20:12 MrCurious tonights fefstivities kick off with a Harp Lager, as my traditional 8pk is now a fruity sample pack, and its a roll with it day
21:10 GuShH_ MrCurious: festivities? how jewish is that.
21:10 MrCurious Drewish? you calling me Drewish?
21:11 GuShH_ Brewish!
21:12 MrCurious why yes, i am Brewish, how did you know? was it my cherry red nose?
21:12 MrCurious HARP premium lager tasts like bud light that has gone off
21:12 MrCurious talking seriously ppost zombie apocolypse flavor...
21:13 GuShH_ eek
21:13 GuShH_ Why are you drinking piss?
21:14 MrCurious my guiness 8 pk came as a sampler of english beers
21:14 MrCurious so tonight i will learn that i dont like 6 of the 8 that came in it
21:14 GuShH_ engrish
21:14 GuShH_ oi
21:15 MrCurious well the other 2 new flavors i expect will be dddrinkable
21:15 MrCurious this is more a afternoon just cut the grass beer
21:16 MrCurious where you woulld prefer a lemonaide, but a can of beer is just that little bit more convienent
21:21 GuShH_ if you are an alcoholic...
21:24 MrCurious havent unlocked that achievement yet...
21:24 GuShH_ lol
21:27 MrCurious Guiness Black Lager... smells like the harp, but is not see through...
21:27 MrCurious that is amazingly horrible
21:28 MrCurious worse than bud ight
21:28 MrCurious gonna dump it...
21:31 GuShH_ hahaha
21:31 GuShH_ no review?
21:32 ShH_ chuc
21:32 GuShH_ TAP TAP TAP SUXS TAP TAP TAP 'MURICA TAP TAP TAP BUNCH O TEWWOWISTZ TAP TAP TAP
22:54 rue_shop2 thsi underlines the problem
22:54 rue_shop2 a U bolt with both sides threaded into a shaft
22:54 rue_shop2 it would work for the problem, but its un-assemblable
22:58 JEntrep Hey sauce
22:58 JEntrep Which is more important?
22:58 JEntrep The IKWalker.cpp or the other walking file?
22:59 JEntrep WalkerGait
22:59 JEntrep GargantuaSauce ^^
23:00 JEntrep It seems everything is more focused around Gait types??
23:06 JEntrep Everyone is gone :(
23:07 JEntrep Lel
23:07 JEntrep Hip, Femur, Tibia, Ankle
23:07 JEntrep :P
23:20 Hyratel1 JCM83, what kind of robot chassis
23:20 Hyratel1 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10825
23:25 JCM83 Hyratel1, I'm teaching an introductory class on robotics. That one right there is good but I was looking at this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/4WD-Robot-Smart-Car-Chassis-Kits-car-with-Speed-Encoder-DC-3v-5V-6V-for-Arduino-/171122633517
23:27 JCM83 I've got the students using arduinos and I want them to do as much control and changes as possible.
23:27 Hyratel1 the Magincian is cheaper by a bit under half
23:27 JCM83 I'd also really love to have them do some robot arm work? I don't know?
23:27 Hyratel1 erf,,,
23:27 JCM83 Yeah you're right dude.
23:27 Hyratel1 if you're doing robot arm, i personally thinkyou're better off starting with anchored arms
23:27 JCM83 That magician is probably desirable.
23:27 JCM83 I agree.
23:27 Hyratel1 that's just my experience though
23:28 JCM83 Sorry, I should clarify - a separate robot arm.
23:29 Hyratel1 gotcha
23:29 JCM83 I don't understand how to attach all the parts together. I collected a bunch of parts when I was even more ignorant of how to do this than I am now. Little motors, mostly. And I don't know where to find the white gears to attach on the end of them, or what those gears should attach to, or even the working vocabulary involved.
23:29 JCM83 I feel stuck with the kits.
23:30 Hyratel1 sounds like you need to take a class, yourself
23:30 Hyratel1 also, look at Sparkfun's ActoBotics selection
23:30 JCM83 I definitely need to take a class myself.
23:31 Hyratel1 https://www.sparkfun.com/categories/31
23:31 JCM83 I'm taking one via EdX but I'm not sure that it's going to be as practical as I need.
23:31 Hyratel1 there's no replacement for independent study, I find
23:32 JCM83 That's what I do. I take on these wacky class assignments that nobody knows how to do and then I spend my free time learning how to teach them like a day to a week ahead of my students.
23:32 Hyratel1 if you're looking for sensors and autonomy of a wheelerbot, the Magician is probably a good starting platform. lightweight, lots of mounting options, and it can't damage anything by running into
23:32 Hyratel1 hahaha
23:33 Hyratel1 ok, there's a few ways to do an arm -
23:33 JCM83 I love my job
23:33 Hyratel1 A, get a kit
23:33 JCM83 Yep, 5 magician kits coming up
23:33 JCM83 you have me convinced
23:33 Hyratel1 B, research all the materials, design your own and brew up the motion controls
23:34 Hyratel1 if you're wnating to teach a class, A is probably a better solution
23:34 Hyratel1 B is more fun for the independent learner
23:34 Hyratel1 you're gonna need a motor driver for each of those Magis btw
23:35 Hyratel1 H-bridge type. SFE sells them
23:35 JCM83 "motor driver"? Does that have to do with why I can't run motors well with my arduinos?
23:35 Hyratel1 uh yeah
23:35 Hyratel1 an arduino can only source about 20mA per output
23:35 rue_shop2 oh yea ,looking good
23:36 Hyratel1 hooboy
23:36 JCM83 shit mA
23:36 Hyratel1 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9457
23:36 Hyratel1 this should be plenty for a Magi
23:37 Hyratel1 you're going to need stackable headers for those though, to plug the motors into
23:37 JCM83 My training is in biology, psychology, and chemistry. I have very little background in this.
23:37 Hyratel1 ooohboy. strap in cos it's gonna be a wild ride
23:38 JCM83 Okay. I got 'em blinking LEDs and stuff.
23:39 Hyratel1 motors are a Power device
23:39 Hyratel1 an arduino is a Logic device, it doen't do Power
23:39 JCM83 Yes, this is the level I need to be at.
23:39 JCM83 I see "arduino motor shields" sometimes.
23:39 Hyratel1 hang out in here, also #sparkfun and ##electronics
23:40 JCM83 I also have, um, these little things that strap into a 9volt battery and have a bunch of posts poking out of them, copper posts as opposed to the black sockets in the arduino.
23:40 JCM83 It's a "YwRobot power supply"
23:40 Hyratel1 showpics, if you can?
23:40 JCM83 it's this http://www.petervis.com/Raspberry_PI/Breadboard_Power_Supply/YwRobot_Breadboard_Power_Supply.html
23:41 JCM83 So that's probably a Power device, since it's name is Power supply, right?
23:41 Hyratel1 yes, it includes voltage regulation and a power switch
23:42 rue_shop2 the mechanical interfearence paramiters of this robot aren't simple, coding it will be fun
23:42 JCM83 rue_shop2 the Magician kit, you mean?
23:42 rue_shop2 ?
23:43 JCM83 Hyratel, okay, so it also includes a USB out. Is it intended to plug into and supply the arduino via it's usb?
23:43 JCM83 I mean it doesn't appear to have a programmable IC.
23:44 Hyratel1 JCM83, there should be a private message window in your irc client
23:49 rue_shop2 hmm I think tonight is finished
23:49 rue_shop2 but I'm pretty much finished to the upper arm
23:49 rue_shop2 means I need to work out a wrist and a gripper