#robotics Logs

Mar 19 2014

00:20 GuShH_ now I'm addicted to this other version!
00:20 GargantuaSauce :D
00:20 GargantuaSauce there's a 4d one too
00:20 GuShH_ NO
00:20 GuShH_ STOP
00:20 GargantuaSauce http://huonw.github.io/2048-4D/
00:23 ShH_ hits close close close and runs
00:23 GuShH_ I saved myself
00:26 GargantuaSauce this one is a lot harder
00:26 GargantuaSauce i want to make an actual 3d rendered version of the 3d one
00:27 GargantuaSauce and maybe write an algorithm to solve it i dunno
00:27 GargantuaSauce assuming that's feasible but i don't see why not
00:27 GargantuaSauce after a few minutes my own play gets very mechanical
02:05 rue_mohr2 the new service provider just nose-dived, back to the old one
02:25 GargantuaSauce the real question is, how can they call it eastlink if they serve you there all the way over on the west coast?
02:25 GargantuaSauce of the westernmost continent of the western hemisphere
02:26 GargantuaSauce ...and the failing one is telus? didnt know they even did home internet
02:27 rue_mohr2 yea, they brought out fiber service
02:29 rue_mohr2 the regular provider has lots of really annoying stalls, so I added telus for a try-out
02:35 GargantuaSauce i've found with eastlink the key is to use third-party dns
02:36 rue_mohr2 I set up my own
02:53 rue_house GargantuaSauce, where ARE you?
03:25 rue_mohr2 there aren't many places you could know of telus and eastlink
03:37 rue_mohr2 I think this is getting into my lungs
07:48 GuShH_ rue_mohr2: did you see a real doctor or one of those monkeys in training?
07:50 GuShH_ hint, a noob hipster in training would start by saying... open your mouth and say "arduino"
10:33 zap0 how dare you!
10:34 zap0 arduino is the most awesome robust advanced professional development system in existance today
10:34 zap0 and probably for the future too
10:48 aemquo Arduino is king.
10:54 zap0 king of the sausage people
12:43 GuShH_ rue_mohr2: this is sold as "save energy! for up to 4kW!" http://mla-s1-p.mlstatic.com/ahorre-luz-energia-hasta-un-35-economizador-mod-5000-kw-6279-MLA98718637_846-O.jpg
12:43 GuShH_ and they've sold 8, makes me want to go on a rampage.
12:43 GuShH_ about 50 bucks a pop too.
12:43 GuShH_ people are by lack of a better word, clinically retarded.
13:39 rue_mohr2 its a dimmer that dosn't go to 100%
13:39 rue_mohr2 trimming 5% or so off loads up to 4kw
13:40 rue_mohr2 they do it with all light dimmers now, they dont go to 100%, and for the most part, nobody notices
13:40 rue_mohr2 its like light bulbs, they stopped making 40W and started making 35W "energy saving" bulbs
13:41 rue_mohr2 lets see
13:41 rue_mohr2 if its a series diode
13:42 rue_mohr2 no
13:42 rue_mohr2 it would be fet or triac based
15:06 GuShH_ rue_mohr2: no, that connects to the wall but has nothing you can connect to. it's one of those "magic black boxes"
15:06 GuShH_ it's bullshit in a box.
15:17 SlaveToTheSauce i think the premise is they introduce (or perhaps filter?) harmonics on the mains to make those electromechanical line meters slow down
15:20 SlaveToTheSauce and bullshit is a very lucrative business
15:50 rue_mohr2 oh
15:50 rue_mohr2 I need to know more about how those electronic meters measure
15:50 rue_mohr2 I'm sure they do somthing stupid like peak current/cycle
15:51 rue_mohr2 and if you have anything that creates spikes it makes it look like your drawing a stupid amount of power
18:48 f00bar80 i've got a FeeTech FS5106R - Continuous Rotation Servo, my question is can i specify an angle using pwm as a standard servo? as i noticed it works like a stepper motor 360 degree and other connected servo started to run the same a step rotation, so does the continuous rotation servo works the same as a standard servo ?
18:50 Tom_itx yeah but the feedback has been altered
18:50 Tom_itx so getting a specific angle isn't possible in that case
18:51 f00bar80 Tom_itx, is there no way i can adjust it to a specific angle, and it seems to be very slow as a step every 3 seconds
18:51 f00bar80 Tom_itx, and why the other servo behaves the same ?
18:51 Tom_itx standard hobby servo?
18:52 f00bar80 Tom_itx, micro the blue one
18:52 Tom_itx if it's been modified for continuous rotation i doubt you can
18:53 f00bar80 Tom_itx, i mean the micro servo behaves thr same when this contin. rotation one is connected to arduino
19:12 f00bar80 Tom_itx, so this servo is controlled then if no angle can be specified ?
19:14 Tom_itx on a continuous rotation servo, the feedback has been disabled allowing it to run continuously never finding the angle called for by the pwm pulse
19:16 f00bar80 Tom_itx, so what the need for it? and why even when connected to an 1 dof arm , it's not even rotating at the time i adjsuted to max rotation speed
19:16 Tom_itx no idea
19:47 GuShH_ Tom_itx: on wobble broaching how do you set the 1� angle on the tool holder?, you drill it off by 1� on purpose or how can an adjustable head be made?
19:48 GuShH_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhvNU2E_x_Y
19:50 GuShH_ maybe by using a chinese bearing one would get the 1� for free.
20:02 Tom_itx make a fixture on your lathe offset the plate 1� before you drill the center
20:18 ShH_ doesn't follow Tom_itx's sugges
20:18 ShH_ doesn't ge
20:23 Fiesta one of the defining of "hipsters" is their elitism, yeah?
20:23 Fiesta defining features
20:25 GargantuaSauce i am pretty sure that term is too nebulous to even have defining features
20:26 Fiesta it is said that only hipsters call people hipsters.
20:27 Fiesta so it is fitting to call people hipsters if they use arduinos. The elitism, the hypocricy, it all fits. Yes lets.
20:27 Fiesta we'll all do a hypocracy dance.
20:27 GuShH_ Fiesta: go play with your tupperware.
20:27 Fiesta i'm nota hipster you're a hipster coz hipster you hipstered your hipster with an arduino and cheap foreign bearings from your hipsters
20:28 Fiesta i'm better than that, i avoid arduinos and cheap foreign bearings
20:28 GuShH_ don't you see the sign? "hipsters will be shot on sight"
20:28 GuShH_ run.
20:28 Fiesta coz i'm not a hipster i'm a hipster
20:28 Fiesta i'm better than you because i'm a not a hipster
20:29 Fiesta i'm a not a hipster
20:29 GargantuaSauce are you on drugs
20:29 ShH_ puts Fiesta in a tupper
20:29 Fiesta i do wonder
20:29 ShH_ leaves Fiesta out in the
20:29 GargantuaSauce gross
20:30 Fiesta these sound like song lyrics
20:30 Tom_itx no not so much
20:30 GuShH_ it must be the glue he's been sniffing
20:31 GuShH_ actually I got some fancy caulk for the pool and it does contain all the goodies kids love, I don't understand how they purposely inhale that crap
20:31 GuShH_ I can't stand it.
20:31 Fiesta i mean, anti-hipster elitism has got to be one of the most ironic things ever
20:32 Fiesta hipsters are too mainstream
20:34 GuShH_ jo momma
20:35 GargantuaSauce aren't hipsters all about irony anyway
20:35 Fiesta yep
20:36 GargantuaSauce is your anti-anti-hipsteriac rant also ironic?
20:36 Fiesta i don't think so
20:36 GargantuaSauce i am pretty sure it is
20:36 GargantuaSauce i wasn't really asking, that was strictly rhetoric
20:36 Tom_itx and not so fitting for the channel either
20:37 Fiesta the solution to the whole connundrum, is that hipsters don't actually exist, there's just elitist assholes.
20:37 Fiesta and we already have a name for that.
20:37 Fiesta "elitist assholes"
20:38 GuShH_ Fiesta: so you should go back to your channel #elitistasshole then!
20:38 Fiesta when i start hating on hipsters i will, maybe you can join me
20:40 ShH_ frags Fi
20:42 Fiesta we can go there and talk all day about the superiority of our tastes in arduinos, bearings, and injection molding. lovely.
20:43 Fiesta no "insert contemporary cultural scape-goats here" allowed.
20:43 GargantuaSauce my dislike of the arduino is not an elitist thing
20:44 GargantuaSauce it stems from the prevalence of the arduino spectrum disorder that follows
20:45 GargantuaSauce it nurtures a culture wherein electronics and embedded software are not developed with the necessary approach of self-driven research, reading datasheets, etc
20:46 ShH_ points at Fi
20:46 Tom_itx the problem with arduino is when they have trouble they don't know how to fix their code whereas with a 'normal' avr the programmer generally has somewhat of a clue what he's doing
20:46 GuShH_ exhibit A
20:46 GargantuaSauce but instead following an instructables page to the letter
20:46 GargantuaSauce and copypasting code from blogs
20:46 GargantuaSauce without any understanding of what anything actually means
20:46 GuShH_ copy pasta! copy pasta!
20:46 GargantuaSauce now that is my primary concern
20:46 Tom_itx then they end up in #avr beggin for help
20:47 Fiesta i see your point
20:47 GargantuaSauce it is compounded by the fact that it results in simple breakout boards for antiquated microcontrollers being sold for $25-50
20:47 GargantuaSauce and also i must say the arduino dev environment is hands down the worst piece of development software i've ever laid eyes on
20:47 GargantuaSauce and i've done BLACKBERRY development
20:48 GargantuaSauce so there are the 3 main prongs of my dislike for all things arduino, and none of them are particularly elitist
20:49 Fiesta but i think it's more important to encourage any form of participation and interest first. Encourage an interest in the field, encourage hobbyists. THE BAR MUST BE SET LOW FOR THIS
20:49 Tom_itx too much is hidden from the user
20:49 GargantuaSauce i don't disagree, but the arduino is a dismal implementation of that idea
20:49 Tom_itx it's a poor way to learn a �C
20:49 Fiesta i mean, what you said is understandable, but it is quite similar to talk from linux elitists i hear where they think that everyone should have the skills to compile their own OS.
20:51 Tom_itx no, generally the ones that come to #avr have no clue and they are starting off with one of the more difficult projects usually
20:51 Tom_itx with no idea what to do to make it work
20:52 Tom_itx maybe i shouldn't have mentioned it
20:52 GargantuaSauce at least we're more on topic!
20:52 Fiesta what would you recommend for beginners? as an alternate option for arduino
20:53 Tom_itx their boards are fine
20:53 Tom_itx their code and interface sux the big one
20:53 Tom_itx anybody starting off with their first avr i direct here: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
20:54 GargantuaSauce i strongly agree with your practice of showing the schematics and a picture of the breadboard after, there
20:54 GargantuaSauce as opposed to those completely asinine breadboard diagrams
20:54 Fiesta working with breadboards is a bit daunting for a beginner who doesn't know what they want.
20:55 Fiesta it's a high bar
20:55 GargantuaSauce well there's an example right there
20:55 GargantuaSauce you can follow the picture
20:55 Tom_itx so they go spend money on boards they may not need?
20:55 GargantuaSauce and use it to decode the schematic
20:55 Tom_itx if they can't use a breadboard maybe this hobby isn't for them
20:56 Fiesta Tom_itx sure. Really what they want is to see if they're interested in the field, they want to start with the result, and then if it works and is attainable, then they might want to work backwards to fill in the gaps in their knowledge
20:56 GargantuaSauce yeah they should be able to wire an LED to a battery long before they look at using a microcontroller
20:56 Fiesta Tom_itx i'm saying sure, let them spend money on boards they don't need
20:56 GargantuaSauce even if that microcontroller is already conveniently broken out
20:57 Tom_itx too often the 'result' is binocular vision or such right out of the box
20:57 Tom_itx and it becomes overwhelming so they give up
20:57 Tom_itx i believe in building blocks starting out with the very basic
20:58 Tom_itx you don't begin school in college
20:58 Fiesta actually i think you do Tom_itx
20:58 Fiesta you don't go into school without having a knoweldge of what's possible at the end
20:58 Fiesta you need to know your goals
20:59 Fiesta you need to have that motivation
20:59 GargantuaSauce you also don't start your capstone project in first year
20:59 GargantuaSauce you learn the basic theory
21:00 Fiesta there are a lot of obstacles along the way which make you wonder if your goal is even attainable to you. these sorts of obstacles can stop you dead and make you hate the field.
21:01 Tom_itx so i start off with an easier goal
21:01 Tom_itx once they see they can do that they move to a more difficult one
21:01 Fiesta no-one gets into this stuff coz they want to blink an LED.
21:02 Tom_itx no but if they can't do that they won't get far because they won't have a basic understanding of how it works
21:02 Tom_itx unless they wanna cut n paste code forever
21:04 Fiesta ok... looks here's an example. Show me any mechanic who started being interested in the mechanics of cars before they were ever interested in the capabilities of cars themselves.
21:04 GargantuaSauce if the bar is so low you can just step over it, you can't learn to jump
21:04 GargantuaSauce and thus jumping high becomes impossible instead of just difficult
21:05 Fiesta the car is the goal. the car is the arduino that can easily do anything, the car that can drive anywhere. It is this interest in "the cool thing", that stimulates the back-interest in how the car works, it is what stimulates the interest in mechanics.
21:05 GargantuaSauce you can't learn anything about car mechanics from hot wheels
21:05 Tom_itx i'm done feeding the troll
21:05 GargantuaSauce sure it can 'stimulate your interest
21:06 Fiesta correct. but you won't even be a mechanic if you wern't already interested in hot wheels. So why deny kids their hot wheels?
21:06 Fiesta *won't ever
21:06 GargantuaSauce we deny the hot wheels being marketed as a way to learn mechanics
21:06 Fiesta oh come on tom, we're just having a disagreement
21:07 Fiesta and neither are computers marketed (anymore) as a way to learn about electronics.
21:07 Fiesta but they once were, and we were all elitists back then
21:09 Fiesta i see your frustrations guys, about the copy-paste thing, i can understand why that's frustrating - being surrounded with kids who didn't have to walk through the snow without shoes uphill both ways to get to where you are, these kids have much more powerful tools than you did and they don't know how to use them.
21:10 GargantuaSauce that's not it at all
21:10 GargantuaSauce the tools are not more powerful
21:10 Fiesta that wasn't sarcasm, that's what's it's like.
21:10 GargantuaSauce they are the opposite
21:11 Fiesta they are more powerful in the sense that they can do more, quicker, with less education, less time.
21:11 Tom_itx leaving out alot of the needed education
21:11 GargantuaSauce no, they can't
21:11 GargantuaSauce they can do less, with less education
21:12 GargantuaSauce and then they provide an even higher barrier to PROGRESS
21:12 GargantuaSauce than the barrier to entry for doing things "right"
21:13 Tom_itx all they can do is re'do what someone else has already done for them
21:13 GargantuaSauce and there is no room to grow in that framework
21:14 GargantuaSauce all it is doing is putting off the learning
21:15 Tom_itx seems the trend in education today
21:15 GargantuaSauce and convincing the users that all you have to do to successfully develop an embedded system is follow some directions and paste some code
21:15 GargantuaSauce i'm not grumpy because they "get" to do that and it's easier
21:15 GargantuaSauce because it is doing THEM a disservice
21:15 GargantuaSauce not me
21:16 Fiesta GargantuaSauce that would be true if it's how engineers learned. But uneducated hobbiests arn't holding anything back.
21:16 GargantuaSauce no, they are being held back
21:16 GargantuaSauce hobbyist vs professional is irrelevant
21:16 GargantuaSauce when you are developing software you have to UNDERSTAND the components involved
21:17 GargantuaSauce it is an absolute necessity
21:17 Fiesta nope
21:17 Fiesta i completely disagree
21:18 GargantuaSauce i don't mean "all the way down" i mean down to any arbitrary level
21:18 GargantuaSauce even if it's strictly the api you are manipulating
21:18 GargantuaSauce otherwise you are stumbling around in the dark and it is impossible to implement anything nontrivial
21:18 GargantuaSauce absolutely impossible
21:19 Fiesta_ dropped out.
21:19 Fiesta_ <GargantuaSauce> it is an absolute necessity<Fiesta> nope<Fiesta> i completely disagree<Fiesta> there are layers of abstraction
21:19 GargantuaSauce [23:04:43] <GargantuaSauce> i don't mean "all the way down" i mean down to any arbitrary level
21:19 GargantuaSauce [23:04:51] <GargantuaSauce> even if it's strictly the api you are manipulating
21:19 GargantuaSauce [23:05:13] <GargantuaSauce> otherwise you are stumbling around in the dark and it is impossible to implement anything nontrivial
21:19 GargantuaSauce [23:05:16] <GargantuaSauce> absolutely impossible
21:19 GargantuaSauce it's fine if all you understand is the top layer of abstraction
21:20 GargantuaSauce but have you read the documentation for the arduino apis?
21:20 GargantuaSauce it's awful
21:20 GargantuaSauce their behaviour is not well-defined
21:20 GargantuaSauce and their implementations are poor
21:20 Fiesta_ ok, so maybe what you're saying is that Arduinos are better suited for learning about the higher levels of abstraction.
21:20 Fiesta_ higher levels of coding i mean
21:21 GargantuaSauce ok it is pretty clear you are not actually following what i'm saying at all
21:21 Fiesta_ sorry dude im' trying
21:21 Fiesta_ what'd i miss?
21:22 Fiesta_ i havnt' read the apis btw
21:24 GargantuaSauce they would be better suited for learning about the top layers of abstraction IF the apis were well designed AND well documented
21:24 GargantuaSauce but they are neither
21:25 GargantuaSauce they are designed for the facility of doing a particular simple operation in 2 lines or so
21:25 GargantuaSauce shrouding as much of their function as possible
21:25 GargantuaSauce taking as much control away from the user as possible
21:25 GargantuaSauce this is the opposite of what is necessary for someone to be able to learn how something works
21:26 GargantuaSauce it's what is necessary for them to be able to press a button and have a thing happen
21:26 GargantuaSauce and not be able to take it any farther
21:26 GargantuaSauce i have to ask
21:27 GargantuaSauce have you tried actually doing anything nontrivial with the arduino stack?
21:27 GargantuaSauce or are you just completely talking out of your idealist ass?
21:27 GargantuaSauce because yeah sure the NOTION of all this is sure nice
21:27 GargantuaSauce and it's why it's been so successful commercially
21:30 Fiesta what woudl be something non-trivial
21:30 GargantuaSauce well what's the most complicated thing you've done with it
21:30 Fiesta that's embarasing
21:30 Fiesta lets say hexapod stuff
21:31 GargantuaSauce no describe its functionality in detail
21:31 GargantuaSauce did it take multiple inputs and control multiple outputs?
21:31 Fiesta yes
21:32 Fiesta serial input, multiple stepper and/or servo outputs
21:32 Fiesta some kinematics calculations inbetween
21:33 Fiesta (done onboard)
21:33 GargantuaSauce but nothing where timing mattered?
21:34 Fiesta well... timing matters for the PWM
21:34 GargantuaSauce so you didn't, say, run into an issue where when you're stepping a motor absolutely nothing else worked
21:34 GargantuaSauce because the stepper library uses a busyloop for timing
21:34 Fiesta i havn't implimented the steppers yet
21:35 Fiesta just the servos
21:36 Fiesta so this busyloop problem is part of the api problems you were talking about?
21:36 GargantuaSauce one of many
21:37 Fiesta so it's a problem that arduino users often have to find work-arounds for? (i think you see where this is going, the silver lining to this education cake)
21:39 Fiesta but i see how this is what you were talking the poorly written apis making the Arduino LESS powerful than it could be.
21:40 GargantuaSauce there's not really room for improvement without ditching the whole thing is what i'm getting at i guess
21:41 GargantuaSauce ALL of the operations that take time have blocking calls that invoke them
21:41 GargantuaSauce and as a result there is no framework for implementing your own stuff properly alongside the existing code
21:41 Fiesta well with me, my initial interest in arduinos has fostered an interest in just using the AVR chips on their own. So if that avoids arduino's apis, then with me i'm already going in the right direction.
21:42 GargantuaSauce there are no stepping stones to a sane implementation
21:42 Fiesta ie: i havn't been led astray
21:42 GargantuaSauce yes and you are in the minority
21:42 Fiesta i'm more optimistic :P
21:42 GargantuaSauce it's the people who don't clue into the fact that it's shit, and ditch it for another platform that suffer for it
21:42 GargantuaSauce it's fine as a thing to show you how things shouldn't be done
21:42 Tom_itx it still all leads back to the understanding of how an led blinks
21:42 GargantuaSauce that's how i got into embedded development after all
21:43 GargantuaSauce my first microcontroller was an official arduino!
21:44 Tom_itx iirc mine was a 68hc11
21:44 Tom_itx or maybe some sort of pic
21:44 Tom_itx i ditched those pretty quick
21:45 Fiesta i was clued in by someone very early that the Arduino was really just an abstraction layer above the AVR chips themselves, i like to think i wasn't just lucky there
21:45 Tom_itx i must say the 68332 was fun
21:45 GargantuaSauce that was in here, i remember it happening
21:45 GargantuaSauce again, minority for sure
21:45 Fiesta it was here? i thought it was ages ago
21:46 GargantuaSauce i think so, cba to verify with logs though
21:46 GargantuaSauce maybe it was someone else i dunno
21:46 Fiesta you may be able to verify it was somethign said, but not that it was the first time i'd heard it
21:46 Fiesta but i'm sure it helped
21:48 GargantuaSauce anyway time and time again we see people in multiple irc channels and other media come around and want help developing some reasonably complex system
21:48 GargantuaSauce and they'll be interfacing their arduino to something
21:49 GargantuaSauce and have no notion of all of the necessity of reading its datasheet and extracting relevant information
21:49 GargantuaSauce that right there is the first step to get ANYWHERE
21:50 GargantuaSauce and it has been robbed from them by the ability to run an all-in-one gui and copypaste code and get basic functionality
21:50 GargantuaSauce they think that because they can do that, they can do anything without the necessary research and understanding
21:50 GargantuaSauce and this is a pervasive attitude
21:50 Fiesta ah, they don't realise their project requires sophistication of a level up from arduino (or down, if talking about abstraction layers).
21:51 GargantuaSauce it'd be perfectly possible with the platform if they were willing to understand what had to be done first
21:51 GargantuaSauce nothing except reasonable performance is impossible on an arduino
21:51 GargantuaSauce it's just a question of ditching ALL the apis
21:52 GargantuaSauce and understanding everything that needs to be implemented
21:52 GargantuaSauce and implementing it
21:53 GargantuaSauce but that which i can't come up with a name other than "the platform's culture" instills some very problematic attitudes in a majority of its users that makes progression past the basics not happen
21:54 Fiesta so you're often finding yourself at the cross-roads in people's educations, having to tell them "you've come far, congratualtions! But the unpleasant news is that to go further the next step is a lot more complex"
21:54 Fiesta i hope that that congratulations keeps their spirits up
21:54 GargantuaSauce well perhaps i shouldn't attribute the attitude's existence to the platform, but more just it being enabled
21:55 Fiesta *nod*
21:55 GargantuaSauce and i don't think that response will work instead of making them look elsewhere for a simple solution
21:56 GargantuaSauce because getting to that point has been simple, why should it change?
21:56 GargantuaSauce or they just give up
21:57 Fiesta yeah they might decide to wait until the platform itself changes
21:57 Fiesta ie: better arduino apis
21:58 GargantuaSauce and really it's such a damn shame
21:59 Fiesta personally i love comming up against the limits of what i'm using, being able to actually touch the walls around you really gives you your bearings
21:59 GargantuaSauce because once you actually understand how shit works the implementation is the easy part
21:59 GargantuaSauce yeah except the limits in this case are completely nonsensical
21:59 GargantuaSauce not even arbitrary, but emerging from poor design
22:00 Fiesta maybe this is getting a little philosophical, but having limits on your world, even if those limits are nonsensical and unnessesary, can actually give you a lot of psychological energy to draw from. I think this is where a lot of religion and ascetic practices have their merits (for our psyches anyway).
22:01 Fiesta by telling themselves they understand their little worlds, they feel more empowered.
22:01 GargantuaSauce yeah but it doesn't make your little world bigger
22:01 Fiesta so by making the world smaller, it makes that easier.
22:02 GargantuaSauce sure but this doesn't nurture growth
22:02 GargantuaSauce it nurtures stagnation
22:02 Fiesta my just combining lots of smaller worlds together, (instead of just knocking down or expanding those unnessesary walls) is kinda messed up though, sure.
22:03 GargantuaSauce which is my whole point here
22:03 Fiesta *but just combining
22:04 Fiesta ie: the whole "well what if i use 10x arduinos" thing, hehe
22:05 GargantuaSauce there was a thing on hackaday where a guy made an array of 7-segment led displays
22:05 GargantuaSauce like 16x16 or something
22:05 GargantuaSauce each with its own arduino
22:05 GargantuaSauce i was angry.
22:10 Fiesta i dunno man, even after all we've said i still think one can go too far in demanding that things are used to their max efficiency. When software gets bloaty, i still prefer it to no software (coz the author is still busy cleaning and optimising it).
22:12 Fiesta messy and working, is better than clean and non-existant. I'm glad that 16x16 display exists.
22:12 GargantuaSauce sure, but the above represents about a 100x overhead in cost and maybe 20x in effort compared to a SIMPLE more optimal solution
22:12 GargantuaSauce and it already existed in a saner form
22:12 GargantuaSauce abhoring that is not "going too far"
22:14 Fiesta maybe i should rephrase, i'm glad that the technology exists where someone can make a 16x16 display and feel a sense of accomplishment about it.
22:14 Fiesta coz that person will go on to learn more
22:14 GargantuaSauce i can shit in my hand and draw on the wall and feel a sense of accomplishment in my work of art
22:15 GargantuaSauce and even have learned more about expressing myself in the medium!
22:15 Fiesta and that's what kids do.
22:15 Fiesta and they grow up into artists
22:18 Fiesta dude if you were a kid and shat in your hand and drew on a wall i'd encourage you to be an artist :D
22:18 GargantuaSauce would you write a blog post celebrating it?
22:18 Fiesta sure, if someone gave me shit about it.
22:19 Fiesta maybe shit isn't the best example