#robotics Logs

Mar 01 2014

16:09 MrCurious always throught it would change from Guest9998 to Squint, not the other way around
16:16 Guest9998 well, none of us are perfect :/
20:23 robotustra_ daddy of cause the master in the house, but mommy is a master of daddy
20:23 Jak_o_Shadows I just levered a circuit board off a printer with a screwdriver, and it hit me in the face.
20:23 Jak_o_Shadows (The torx screwdriver set I bought has not the right size)
20:25 robotustra_ hm
20:26 robotustra_ go to doctor?
20:26 Jak_o_Shadows Nah, 'tis only a small cut.
20:27 Jak_o_Shadows But hey, I got the stepper motor off.
20:28 robotustra_ when last time I disassempled printer - it was DC motor
20:29 Jak_o_Shadows The carriage motor is a decent sized DC motor, as is the paper feed. However there is a stepper motor that I think was used for cleaning the inkheads
20:32 GargantuaSauce i've noticed with torx that for some sizes a flat head screwdriver will work fine
20:32 GargantuaSauce especially the "security" ones lol
20:32 Jak_o_Shadows I have tried :(
20:32 GargantuaSauce torx is such a weird beast
20:33 GargantuaSauce if i reach into my toolbox and grab a screwdriver, it will invariably be torx when i am looking for phillips
20:33 Jak_o_Shadows Yep.
20:33 GargantuaSauce but then when i hae a torx screw to loosen, none of them are ever anywhere to be found
21:22 rue_more paint the shafts, make a type colour code,
21:22 rue_more we use blue for flat, red for robertson, green for philips, etc
21:23 GargantuaSauce but robertson has colour codes for its size!
21:24 GargantuaSauce that is too many colours! my toolbox is strictly heteronormative
21:24 robotustra_ lightblue for sharp, lightlight blue for HP
21:25 robotustra_ dark lightblue for others
21:25 rue_more thats why you pain the SHAFTS
21:26 rue_more not he handles
21:26 rgantuaSauce paints rue_more's s
21:58 rue_more shafts :P
22:07 GuShH_ rue_more: hrmmm I wonder what's wrong with the oil pump on a vintage 70s "rain lamp"
22:08 GuShH_ I'll get you a pic, I need help knowing if it has to be fully submerged, barely touching the surface or somewhere in between
22:08 GuShH_ it's a flat vertical prop in a small aluminum housing with a tiny inlet port on the bottom
22:08 GuShH_ and the outlet on the side
22:09 GuShH_ I tried priming it from the top, no luck... it uses a syncrhonous ac motor, I wonder if these can start the wrong way around?
22:09 GuShH_ and if so, how the hell do you get it to turn the right way around
22:09 GuShH_ there's no mechanism to rectify rotation
22:10 GuShH_ it could also be the bearings are gummed up, I oiled them but it's not free spinning, it's got some drag to it and these motors are very low torque when they don't have a gearbox
22:12 GargantuaSauce there's an electromagnetic method for making a synchronous motor unidirectional
22:12 GuShH_ GargantuaSauce: or you can have a rachet for mechanical means ....
22:12 GuShH_ to make it stall on wrong start
22:12 GargantuaSauce yeah but this is simpler, i think they're called shading coils
22:12 ShH_ sh
22:12 GargantuaSauce just an extra couple loops on the opposite side ofthe stator
22:12 GuShH_ I don't know if this type of pump requires a specific direction
22:13 GuShH_ it's flinging the oil toward the output port, pushing it out either way, IMO.
22:14 GuShH_ which is why I thought it ought to be fully submerged not to introduce air
22:14 GuShH_ but perhaps it needs the air... I don't know a lot about these simple pumps
22:14 GuShH_ in any other type of pump air is bad.
22:15 GuShH_ I'll get a pic
22:16 GuShH_ stupid ass shaded pole motors... I hate them.
22:17 GuShH_ GargantuaSauce: http://gushh.net/tmp/dscn5196f.jpg in case it matters
22:18 GuShH_ that's a pretty bad alu cast... but since it's never seen, they didn't bother to make it pretty
22:18 GargantuaSauce yeah the coils on top are the shading coils, they ensure through means i don't entirely understand that it always goes one way
22:19 GuShH_ I think the oil should fully submerge this type of pump, but it's not really pumping at all right now
22:19 GargantuaSauce i'd assume since it's a centrifugal pump it should be submerged yeah BUT i've never heard of one driven by a synchronous motor
22:19 GargantuaSauce which might relax that constraint i dunno
22:19 GuShH_ two thoughts... the fluid is too viscous, the level is not proper.
22:19 GuShH_ there are no docs on 70s "rain" lamps...
22:19 GuShH_ so I don't know how thin or thick the oil should be
22:20 GuShH_ I do know they use mineral oil
22:20 GuShH_ my thought process "it's too viscous and the pump can't reach it's rated RPM"
22:20 GargantuaSauce yeah that certainly sounds like a possibility
22:20 GuShH_ "therefor I should try thinner oil" but if the level is also relevant...
22:20 GuShH_ I'm stuck
22:21 GargantuaSauce check for a clog too of course
22:21 rue_more new shipping containers are only $7000!?
22:21 GuShH_ I poured oil from the top, it went all the way down
22:21 GuShH_ rue_more: how much are old ones?
22:21 rue_more under $5000
22:21 GuShH_ because your new container will turn into an old one after a year or so I bet
22:21 GuShH_ even though they have thick paint
22:22 GuShH_ those things are built to last
22:22 GuShH_ rue_more: any thoughts on the silly pump?
22:23 GuShH_ it is a low volume low speed pump, and it should just work... dang it, why are the simplest things the hardest?
22:23 GuShH_ I wonder if the bottom plate needs to have a good seal hmmm
22:24 GuShH_ it had certainly developed a good seal with the gummy old oil, which I removed..
22:24 rue_more http://www.google.ca/imgres?sa=X&tbm=isch&tbnid=K3wmf-G694UaPM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vancouversun.com%2Fnews%2Fmetro%2FVancouver%2BIsland%2Bshipping%2Bcontainer%2Bexplosion%2Binjures%2Bdamages%2F8301311%2Fstory.html&docid=CP3O6BIPaZK8iM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vancouversun.com%2Fcms%2Fbinary%2F8301338.jpg&w=620&h=400&ei=dq4SU_z9KonfoATupoHQCA&zoom=1&ved=0CFMQhBwwAA&iact=rc&dur=839&page=1&start=0&ndsp=23
22:24 rue_more I'd say the middle one exploded
22:25 GuShH_ huh
22:25 GuShH_ what was in that container?
22:25 rue_more http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Vancouver+Island+shipping+container+explosion+injures+damages/8301311/story.html
22:25 rue_more those are strong, must ahve been quite somethign
22:26 rue_more to be a leaking 20-lb propane bottle, stored in one of the shipping containers.
22:26 GuShH_ what was the ignition source
22:26 rue_more probably the FAX MACHINE
22:27 GuShH_ o.o
22:27 rue_more those things are NOT thin, its crunched like a popcan
22:29 zap0 what are you talking about?
22:30 rue_more the image I posted
22:30 GuShH_ so, any thoughts on the pump?
22:30 zap0 i joined 5 lines ago, can you post me the link again. it sounds interesting.
22:30 rue_more I saw a lot of text go by
22:30 GuShH_ rue_more: http://gushh.net/tmp/dscn5196f.jpg
22:31 GuShH_ it's not pumping the oil up, does the cap need to form a good seal around the casting?
22:31 GuShH_ I'm thinking it's more a problem with the oil being too thick
22:31 rue_more wtf is that!?
22:31 GuShH_ an oil pump from a 70s "rain" lamp
22:31 GuShH_ which you've probably never seen.
22:32 GuShH_ shaded pole motor, direct drive to the pump
22:32 rue_more and I thought my castings were crude
22:32 GuShH_ who cares, these are not seen
22:32 GuShH_ that's why they are raw
22:32 rue_more what are you pumping the oil to again?
22:32 GuShH_ they were probably made on a hole in the ground.
22:32 rue_more gears for cutter?
22:32 GuShH_ no, this is a decorative lamp
22:33 GuShH_ the pump is to get the oil up
22:33 rue_more your making a lamp not?
22:33 GuShH_ so then it drips as rain drops through the strings
22:33 rue_more now?
22:33 GuShH_ fuck sake. no, I'm refurbishing this 70s lamp
22:33 ShH_ s
22:33 rue_more what about the lathe man!?
22:33 GuShH_ you know lava lamps, these were the least famous lamps from the 60-70s
22:33 rue_more why do you have to work on so many oil pumping projects at once?
22:33 GuShH_ the rain lamps
22:33 GuShH_ it's just a coincidence
22:34 GuShH_ I thought I could also learn a few things for the lathe pump
22:34 GuShH_ but no.
22:34 rue_more what is the problem with the pump?
22:34 GuShH_ it's not pumping.
22:34 zap0 have you tried less think oil ?
22:34 GuShH_ I thought it was a problem with the level
22:34 rue_more are the bearings shot ont he motor?
22:34 GuShH_ zap0: it's too thick I think.
22:34 GuShH_ it spins ok without a load
22:34 GuShH_ and smoothly, no noise
22:34 rue_more they always gum up
22:34 GuShH_ it was gummy
22:35 GuShH_ I oiled it and let it run for a while
22:35 rue_more make sure its free nomatter where the shaft is
22:35 rue_more cause it'll have axial play in it
22:35 GuShH_ does the lid on the pump have to be sealed to the body?
22:35 rue_more it should do about 3600 rpm?
22:35 GuShH_ I'd say it doesn't reach that high
22:35 rue_more I dont even know how this thing goes togethor
22:35 GuShH_ there's just a bowl on the bottom for the oil
22:36 GuShH_ and it pumps it up through a pipe, that's all
22:36 GuShH_ the pump housing seats near the bottom
22:36 rue_more does the pump sit int eh oil?
22:36 GuShH_ it should, but how far in? ie. how much oil, i don't know.
22:36 GuShH_ just at the pickup? half way in? fully submerged?
22:36 rue_more to the top of the impeller then
22:37 GuShH_ it is now
22:37 GuShH_ but no luck, it might need thinner oil
22:37 GuShH_ this is equivalent of 30 weight
22:37 rue_more a seal will help, but may not be needed depending on the volume of oil happening
22:37 GuShH_ very low volume
22:37 GuShH_ it had a "natural" seal of gunky oil but I cleaned it up
22:37 rue_more are the pipes clear?
22:37 GuShH_ yeah just one pipe
22:37 GuShH_ if you pour oil from the top it goes down easily
22:38 GuShH_ so I think it's not reaching the desired RPM to push it up 30cm or so
22:38 rue_more in history, how many of these burst into flame?
22:38 GuShH_ too much load, or the bearings need to be freed up more
22:38 GuShH_ I don't know
22:38 rue_more what else does the moto9r do?
22:38 GuShH_ it's also quite a dirty thing to have around
22:38 GuShH_ nothing else
22:38 rue_more just eth pump?
22:38 rue_more where is the back going?
22:38 GuShH_ there's a lamp on top, incandescent 25W 220V for decorative purposes
22:39 rue_more wow, it has firehazard written all over it
22:39 GuShH_ although it may help thin out the oil with the heat, but doubt it
22:39 GuShH_ it was the 60s, 70s
22:39 rue_more mhm
22:39 GuShH_ who the fuck was thinking about fire hazards?
22:39 rue_more all too high
22:39 GuShH_ haha
22:39 GuShH_ you wouldn't leave it on if you aren't in the same room though
22:39 GuShH_ what for...
22:40 GuShH_ I just wanted to revive it for fun
22:40 GargantuaSauce yeah lava lamps are dangerous enough, and they're *sealed*
22:40 GuShH_ :)
22:40 GargantuaSauce also the oil must grab a loot of dust out of the air
22:40 GargantuaSauce and get really gross really fast
22:40 GuShH_ it ought to
22:40 GuShH_ which is why I thought "why doesn't it have glass all around"
22:41 GuShH_ ...cost must be the answer.
22:41 GuShH_ certainly not for pets or kids to be around
22:44 rue_more there is no cover over this dripping oil?
22:45 rue_more to keep kids/pets/dirt out?
22:46 rue_more https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3BuQ-aXiW84/TXaKkhGM2II/AAAAAAAAAJs/SdJUie2p9fw/s1600/rain+lamp.jpg
22:46 rue_more ?
22:54 GuShH_ rue_more: what kids?
22:54 GuShH_ yes like that but with a naked lady inside :)
22:55 GuShH_ this is not something you own if you have kids... just to be clear.
22:55 GuShH_ the effect is nice, it's like slow motion rain and you don't really see the strings anymore after a while, just the droplets
22:57 e_more waits for brian to wak
22:57 rue_more wish it would do this on q
22:57 GargantuaSauce where is the igniter located?
22:57 rue_more its at the top, in the middle
22:58 rue_more there is a pump and resivour to make sure the fire lasts long enough for the twine to catch
22:59 rue_more but if the pump overloads from overheating due to the failing bearings they are famous for, it can ignite from the bottom too
22:59 GargantuaSauce good that they have redundant systems in place to ensure its function
22:59 GuShH_ rue_more: hope you never get to have any kids.. you'll turn them into little fags...
23:00 GuShH_ "don't touch this match, it may burn you!"
23:00 GuShH_ "no don't turn this thing on, it may turn on!"
23:01 GuShH_ there's no way in hell a 25W bulb can ignite mineral oil at 15CM
23:01 GuShH_ EVER
23:05 zap0 the oil will mix with oxygen, over time, you could get a gases build up that is ignitable
23:09 GuShH_ zap0: nah... never happened.
23:10 GuShH_ thank god the creator didn't have to put up with sizzy boys on IRC otherwise it would NOT have existed, most likely.
23:11 GuShH_ alright it's getting up but it won't reach the outlet level, by about 3-4CM because by then the pump slows down, so it must be too thick a fluid for the pump
23:12 zap0 safety gone mad!
23:13 GuShH_ zap0: don't have a fireplace, it's a fire hazard.
23:13 ShH_ eyer
23:13 GuShH_ remove ALL ignition sources, including your light switches, your fridge, everything. live in a cardboard box, oh shit that's flammable... remove yourself from the equation, here's a loaded gun.
23:18 GuShH_ alright more "degumming" on the motor, it's reaching higher sustained RPM under load and getting past the required height
23:25 GuShH_ seems the oil does actually warm up
23:25 GuShH_ so the hotter it gets the thinner it will be, allowing the pump to work even better
23:25 GuShH_ it won't reach a lot higher past body temperature though
23:34 GuShH_ I bet it would work with just a one way valve and a heater, but perhaps not with oil.