#robotics Logs

Jan 31 2014

00:11 rue_shop2 I gave the template mounting holes, I have a habit of starting by deleting them
00:11 rue_shop2 I beleive I start with a "I dont need no stinking mounting holes" phase
00:14 MrCurious i c
00:21 MrCurious Success will come like an affliction, but leave you with an addiction.
00:24 rue_house hmm
00:25 MrCurious come on, ,someone complete that mad rap...
00:41 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop2: I'm still around, just busy
00:42 rue_bed sysadmin?
11:58 this1 Hello everyone, was hoping to get an opinion from people that are more involved in the field.
11:59 adam789654123 this1: hello. if nobody is in now, this channel can be pretty active on and off
12:00 sherlock on and off
12:00 adam789654123 oh
12:00 adam789654123 all the time
12:00 adam789654123 :)
12:00 sherlock We follow a strict 9-5 shedule
12:00 adam789654123 haha
12:00 this1 figures
12:00 adam789654123 great channel though
12:01 adam789654123 this1: what did you want an opinion on?
12:01 this1 so, long story short, I'm a graduated computer engineer who due to circumstance ekeed out a c+ gpa from the university of illinois, who now finds himself nearly 2 years into a software development job he doesn't enjoy
12:01 sherlock Do you not enjoy sw dev, or do you not enjoy that job?
12:02 this1 I'd say it's about 25%/75%
12:02 adam789654123 so it seems like you can take care of 75% of the problem by finding a decent job
12:02 this1 I was never crazy about the idea of software, well, at least in the applications it's used in my region (chicagoland, all software jobs are financial/consulting related or similar)
12:03 sherlock Some people just really dislike sw dev, in general
12:04 this1 So yes, I've thought about changing career paths, but I'm thinking that may also require going back to school
12:04 sherlock How much hardware was in your engi degree?
12:05 this1 Did a fair amount of lab work, mostly proto board stuff, took a specific robotics course that dealt heavily with computer vision and manipulating/programming a robotic hand, but mostly circuits and similar
12:06 this1 and I'd like to get back to that
12:07 sherlock I work in the sw development field anyway, so I do not know industry stuff so much. What they look for when hiring, etc. However, I do not that in the sw field they do sometimes hire people with different engi degrees.
12:07 sherlock Maybe it is the same elsewhere
12:08 this1 shelock: are you from the US by chance?
12:08 sherlock No, canada
12:08 sherlock My employer is american
12:08 sherlock I went through an education system which does not really exist in the US though
12:08 this1 fair enough
12:09 sherlock this1: colleges in canada are....different
12:09 sherlock from our unis
12:09 adam789654123 how so?
12:09 adam789654123 (if its not too much of a distraction, or maybe you can get back to it)
12:09 adam789654123 im interested
12:09 sherlock adam789654123: our colleges are applied courses, 2-3 years, and very different from community college
12:09 sherlock its SIMILAR to an associates
12:09 sherlock but not the same as, very applied, mostly lab work
12:10 sherlock but also some theory, its more of a "what you need to get in the door" type thing....Kind of?
12:10 adam789654123 so like technical training, or vocational
12:10 sherlock yes
12:10 adam789654123 i think thats a good way to go.
12:10 sherlock I have one in compsci/engi, a 3 year, its very much not in depth on anything..but covers a lot of everything
12:10 adam789654123 ive also looked into certificates
12:11 adam789654123 ok
12:11 sherlock And if you are good, you can get a job over someone with uni..which would never happen with comminity college in the states
12:11 ace4016 that sounds like the equivalent of vocation schools sherlock
12:11 this1 well, I've been entertaining the idea of going back to get a masters in mechanical engineering, but I'm beginning to realize I may have to go get a BS in mechanical engineering first...
12:11 ace4016 this1, not always
12:11 sherlock can you go to vocational school to become a programmer in the states?
12:11 ace4016 as an EE i could have gotten my masters in mechanical instead of electrical
12:11 sherlock I was under the impression it was for more workforce type stuff
12:12 ace4016 though control systems is nearly the same for mechanical and electrical, so it wouldn't have mattered either way
12:12 adam789654123 there are some valuable certifications in the us
12:12 adam789654123 not sure about the vocational though
12:12 ace4016 sherlock, programmer is a job, not a degree, so yes
12:12 this1 I don't know that the same is true for computer engineers though, there are a lot of the sciences we just didn't have to learn, we definitely focused a lot more on the math
12:12 sherlock ace4016: yeah, but I was under the impression the people hiring in the US would not even look at you unless you had atleast an associates
12:12 ace4016 you couldn't go to a vocational school to be an engineer though; you could be an engineering technician though
12:13 sherlock ace4016: In canada its not legal to call yourself an engi unless youve been through a uni engi program
12:13 sherlock you get a ring
12:13 sherlock similar to the title of "doctor"
12:13 ace4016 sherlock, depends on the field. in software, as long as you show some training and ability, they're likely to hire you. in engineering...not so much
12:13 ace4016 engineering tech, a bit easier however
12:13 ace4016 sherlock, aye. kind of the same in the states
12:14 sherlock ace4016: in the states you can as long as your in a....whats the word..not union
12:14 ace4016 you can get a job as an engineer with an engineering or science degree. you can't title yourself an engineer without getting a professional engineering license, in the US
12:15 ace4016 and some places require that you have a PE or be an FE to work there, so in some cases, you do need the license; though a bit less rare in EE field
12:15 sherlock I think Software engineer depends on the state
12:16 sherlock wikipedia says "Due to industrial exemption many non-professional engineers are titled as engineers. Examples are production engineer, test engineer, integration engineer, network engineer, project engineer, systems engineer and sales engineer."
12:16 sherlock where as here I am pretty sure you cannot say that
12:16 sherlock Not totally sure, although you do get a ring here
12:17 ace4016 sherlock, there's a difference between job title and professional title
12:17 ace4016 in the US anyways
12:18 ace4016 i have my masters but not the license because i think the license is retarded...but, i can say i work as an electrical engineer, but i can't say I am titled as an engineer
12:19 sherlock ace4016: If you say "I am a network engineer", even if that is your job title, does that not imply that you are a professional engineer?
12:19 ace4016 nope
12:19 sherlock ace4016: yeah, wiki talks about MS's cert " Microsoft has since changed the title to "Microsoft Certified IT Professional". Several licensing bodies for professional engineering contend that only licensed professional engineers are legally allowed to use the title engineer. "
12:19 sherlock in canada
12:20 ace4016 yea
12:20 ace4016 other countries are more careful about the title going to non-engineering trained people
12:20 ace4016 the US...not so much
12:21 sherlock ace4016: I see the word "engineer" a lot less here, I see "analyst" a lot
12:21 sherlock in regards to software
12:21 ace4016 but, there's a difference between licenses/titled and job title as mentioned before :P
12:21 sherlock ace4016: Yeah, but imagine if your job title included the word doctor
12:21 ace4016 so you can work as a network engineer (some computer engineers are actual network engineers...) but it's not an abet recognized engineering practice
12:22 sherlock would that not imply that you are a doctor regardless of context?
12:22 adam789654123 The engineering technicial looks very interesting to me, as a very general field
12:22 adam789654123 *technician
12:24 ace4016 sherlock, nyet. doctor's are more stringent with their title and have all these laws in place to protect the title :P
12:24 ace4016 but, in the world of doctors, only a medically trained person should be allowed to call themselves doctor
12:24 sherlock I can link you to the text of the bill which protects the term here
12:24 ace4016 what do you do with scientist that can and want to do engineering?
12:25 ace4016 which i think is where things kind of got wonky
12:25 ace4016 that, and engineer was a prestigious title, and to attract people, companies started using the engineering title
12:26 sherlock They avoid it a lot more here
12:26 ace4016 in the software world, it did start out as an engineering and science field, so that's why you see a lot of things like "Engineer" and such. they also like to use the term Architect
12:26 ace4016 to make it sound more appealing
12:27 sherlock ace4016: In my province, includes the text "uses a term, title or description that will lead to the belief that the person may engage in the practice of professional engineering"
12:28 ace4016 adam789654123, engineering techs are wonderful. i work with a few at work and they have a more artisan based training that is damn useful to an engineer that primarily received theoretical knowledge
12:28 sherlock ace4016: "term title and description", to me, includes job title
12:28 ace4016 sherlock, yea; that's canada :P
12:28 ace4016 US is a different beast
12:28 sherlock :P This province specifically, I believe others are similar
12:28 sherlock ace4016: and yeah, I know you guys are different
12:28 sherlock what I was saying all along
12:29 adam789654123 ace4016: wonder if the same financial stuff that is available toward college is applicable to vocational schools
12:29 adam789654123 ace4016: in the us that is
12:29 ace4016 adam789654123, not always. some universities offer engineering technician degrees/training, and so you can get all the same funding that way
12:30 adam789654123 ic
12:30 ace4016 i believe there are some federal funding that goes for vocational and community schools as well, and can even be supported by state and local as well
12:30 ace4016 private education loans are also almost always available
12:31 adam789654123 ok
12:31 adam789654123 im sorta floating around between different things that i may go to school for
12:31 adam789654123 i would really like to work toward something in engineering
12:32 ace4016 you'll have to recognize the difference between the engineering tech and the engineer though
12:32 adam789654123 but its really a high bar to get in and work through it
12:32 adam789654123 yeah
12:32 adam789654123 i basically get that the engineering tech is like a troubleshooter and boots and the groud guy
12:32 ace4016 most of the hobbyist in think engineers are engineering techs; and probably think every engineer should essentially have those skills
12:33 adam789654123 what do you think?
12:33 ace4016 in here*
12:34 adam789654123 wondering what you might consider important distinctions
12:34 adam789654123 between engineer and engineer tech
12:34 ace4016 one sec
12:34 adam789654123 ok
12:35 ace4016 bleh, telemarketers
12:36 adam789654123 No. We dont have windows. I live in a cave.
12:36 adam789654123 I dont use american dollars
12:36 adam789654123 do you accept pesos?
12:36 adam789654123 f*cking telemarketers
12:37 sherlock I hate the ones which have a 5 second pause before you actually connect to em
12:37 sherlock I dont understand why those happen
12:37 sherlock I guess they call, wait for a response, then connect you to someone
12:37 ace4016 engineering techs will be the guys that typically build the products, they can and will assist in troubleshooting, and can provide more or less the same customer facing services an engineer can provide, at a fraction of the cost
12:38 ace4016 they however, will not have a deep understanding or training of the theory
12:38 adam789654123 makes sense
12:38 ace4016 which is where the distinction is really made
12:38 adam789654123 like im thinking that the engineer designes the systems from the ground up
12:38 ace4016 basically, engineers are more towards design and such (which means they're held more accountable for fuck ups)
12:38 adam789654123 the engineering techs build the stuff, and troubleshoot
12:39 adam789654123 ok
12:39 ace4016 a tech can design something, but ultimately has to go through an engineer to get it approved
12:39 adam789654123 like if there is a fundamental flaw in the design, its the engineers as
12:39 adam789654123 s
12:39 ace4016 they'll usually design cable harnesses and simple ciruits typically
12:39 adam789654123 ic
12:40 adam789654123 i think there can be a similar relationship between architect and builder and contractor
12:40 ace4016 yea
12:41 ace4016 there's also an engineer in there too :P
12:41 adam789654123 where a contractor may design something, but have the architect do the official documentent, the drawing, if you will
12:41 adam789654123 :)
12:41 ace4016 actually, people get the contractor bit a little incorrect
12:41 ace4016 all a contractor is, is someone who is contracted to do a job
12:41 adam789654123 i love being corrected
12:41 ace4016 the contractor may have engineers and architects under his employment
12:42 adam789654123 sure
12:42 ace4016 or, they may just have builders
12:42 sherlock Depends what they were contracted to do :p
12:42 ace4016 builders will build to the design and local/state codes
12:42 ace4016 aye
12:42 adam789654123 as having experience in carpentry and renovation, i mostly see these hats blur together
12:42 ace4016 contractor is a very generic term
12:43 sherlock There are so many contractor firms here, its a government city
12:43 adam789654123 but yeah, a contractor will assemble the crews, if you will
12:43 ace4016 adam789654123, a lot of times, a design can be created by someoen else, but must be approved by a civil engineer or code inspector (more so because of safety)
12:43 sherlock Contracting firms are companies which assemble talent
12:43 ace4016 yup
12:43 sherlock Contractors
12:43 sherlock are the people who do work on contract
12:43 adam789654123 ace4016: which in principal is a great idea
12:44 sherlock although I guess that doesnt always work
12:44 adam789654123 contractor as people who specialize in dealing with contracts. what a wonderful distinction!
12:46 ace4016 lol
12:46 ace4016 pretty much
12:46 adam789654123 thanks for the food for thought
12:46 adam789654123 ive been thinking about going to school for nursing also
12:46 sherlock Cant help ya there
12:46 adam789654123 i know
12:46 ace4016 it's kind of good that you seem to care somewhat about the specifics of what words mean...
12:46 adam789654123 but it does seem like a shoe in
12:46 ace4016 langauge doesn't mean much if you keep changing the meaning :P
12:46 adam789654123 i try to
12:46 adam789654123 yes
12:47 adam789654123 i love it when people challenge what i say, so that i can drill down to the specifics
12:47 adam789654123 its sort of a fun game to me
12:47 adam789654123 another thing that crosses my mind occasionally is hvac
12:50 adam789654123 the thing is that for the investment of time to get a degree, i want to have a good idea
12:51 adam789654123 of what i will still be interested in say, 15 years from now
12:51 ace4016 that's hard :P
12:52 adam789654123 for sure
12:53 adam789654123 i also figure, that if i finish school for something, i can just start going to school for something else
12:53 adam789654123 if i figure the money right that is
12:53 adam789654123 so if i go to school for nursing, and can hold the job, that could help me pay for the schooling to be an engineering tech
12:54 adam789654123 just some stuff im considering
12:54 adam789654123 with bits of research here and there
12:54 adam789654123 one day, im gonna have to break these ideas down, and come up with a plan
18:48 latemau5 Hey.
18:50 Jak_o_Shadows hi
18:51 adam789654123 hello
18:59 latemau5 :)
18:59 latemau5 How's it going?
19:00 Jak_o_Shadows wire does not work as M2.5 bolts
19:01 latemau5 Myth Busted?
19:03 Jak_o_Shadows The annoying part is getting small numbers of em
19:04 latemau5 em?
19:04 Jak_o_Shadows M2.5 nuts and bolts
19:05 latemau5 Oh, haha.
19:05 latemau5 I thought you meant em as an abbreviation.
19:05 latemau5 EM.
19:37 gushhtab Use m3!
19:45 Jak_o_Shadows Why?
19:48 Jak_o_Shadows more common?
22:20 robotustra_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE72tn0fOxg&list=PLrsGizMV8xVPuQW3HdAuZSLh7A_Q_YwaD