#robotics Logs
Dec 26 2013
#robotics Calendar
00:22 rue_shop3 I think I'll play with avrs and lcd's
00:22 GargantuaSauce you definitely need position feedback
00:22 rue_shop3 GargantuaSauce, for the body posiiton yes, not for the flywheel
00:22 GargantuaSauce oh i guess i am not familiar with the design you're talking about
00:22 rue_shop3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6p-1J551Y
00:23 rue_shop3 single axis version as an evening project
00:24 GargantuaSauce ooooooh that.
00:26 GargantuaSauce looks like they are using multipole bldc motors, which makes a lot of sense because i think precise speed control at low speeds is difficult for brushed ones
00:26 MrCurious saw that other day, totally bad ass
00:26 GargantuaSauce but you might be able to pull off a hinged single axis version
00:27 MrCurious miniturize it down to grain of sand, and nano replicators are born
00:27 GargantuaSauce i somehow doubt it'll end up being an evening project though
00:30 rue_shop3 hey I did linear positioning of a solinoid as an evening project
00:31 GargantuaSauce this is an order of magnitude more complex
00:31 GargantuaSauce there are actual motion sequences
00:31 GargantuaSauce a much bigger state space
00:31 rue_shop3 I'm thining just the balancing part, not getting up
00:32 rue_shop3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tG2bTOGxK0 <-- evening project
00:32 GargantuaSauce oh, perhaps in that case
00:33 rue_shop3 I'm the only person I know to have done that and linear control of a pneumatic muscle
00:35 GargantuaSauce there are plenty of solenoid valves that are servomechanisms, aren't there?
00:38 GargantuaSauce yeah lots of prior art in that regard
00:38 rue_shop3 I did that with a pain old solinoid, not at all designed for lienar actuation
00:38 GargantuaSauce controlled position, pressure, or flow
00:38 rue_shop3 plain old solinoid
00:38 GargantuaSauce i am sure they are the same deal
00:38 rue_shop3 solinoids that are used for proportion control are designed differently
00:38 GargantuaSauce sure the response is nonlinear but thats the whole point of the control loop
00:39 rue_shop3 GargantuaSauce, if you do it, you will only be the second person to have done it,
00:39 rue_shop3 I encourage you
00:39 GargantuaSauce hehe
00:39 rue_shop3 }:] if its so easy, giddy up.
00:40 rue_shop3 anyhow, I'm gonna mess with some lcd's
00:40 GargantuaSauce maybe i will just to spite you!
00:40 GargantuaSauce actually i won't because the only solenoids i have at hand don't have an end stop
00:41 GargantuaSauce so if they let go the spring-loaded movey part goes flying
00:41 rue_shop3 mine dosn'thave an end stop either
00:41 rue_shop3 turn off the power and it falls right out
00:44 rue_shop3 I'v realized today that PD servo loops are really just a way to make a nonlinear responce curve
00:52 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhbO0T7M7Fg
00:53 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIAtV84g-xU wow thi one is ridiculously precise
00:54 rue_shop3 thats not a standard solinoid tho
00:55 GargantuaSauce so?
00:55 rue_shop3 I did it with a standrad pull solinoid
00:56 GargantuaSauce the only difference is that it can exert force in both directions instead of relying on a spring
00:56 rue_shop3 no
00:57 rue_shop3 the magnetics are completely different
00:57 GargantuaSauce how?
00:57 rue_shop3 no permanent magnet, and there is basically no field shaping
00:58 rue_shop3 especially in a home shop, I'm the only one to do linear control of a standard solinoid
00:58 rue_shop3 I'm also the first person to home operate a VFD
00:59 rue_shop3 and I'm the only one to successfully linear control an air muscle in a home shop
00:59 GargantuaSauce ok then
00:59 rue_shop3 before me, its only been done in universities
00:59 rue_shop3 please prove me wrong!
01:00 rue_shop3 and not with industrial youtube videos
01:00 GargantuaSauce i suspect you'll continue splitting hairs to maintain the truthiness of those claims :V
01:01 rue_shop3 no really, there are lots of videos of people trying to use air musces for positon control on robot arms,
01:02 rue_shop3 I'm the only one to actaully pull of position control
01:03 rue_shop3 I cant prove the VFD thing, I can only say that 1995, after a LONG time searching on the internet for ANY information of projects using vfd's I reverse engineered a vcr , built a working circuit and posted the information on the internet
01:04 rue_shop3 you can search as long as you want, and I'm absolutly certian you will find NO information from a non-commercial source on a homemade project where a standard solinoid or air muscle are position controlled
01:04 rue_shop3 but I'd love you to prove me wrong just so i know I'm NOT the only one out there
01:06 GargantuaSauce well there certainly not a lot of people doing serious diy robotics
01:08 rue_shop3 am I the only reacreational technologist?
01:08 GargantuaSauce no, you're talking to one
01:08 MrCurious i am going to need clarification on a few words
01:08 MrCurious only
01:08 MrCurious and recreational technologist
01:08 GargantuaSauce you're talking to two
01:09 rue_shop3 I should hope so!
01:09 rue_shop3 tell me about more of your projects damnit
01:09 GargantuaSauce well you know about the hexapod
01:10 GargantuaSauce i have a quadcopter in the works, set that aside waiting on more software progress and knowledge
01:10 GargantuaSauce (and they're kind of overdone)
01:10 MrCurious replacing unsuported rails on CNC with supported ones, re-aranging workshop to be more efficient, disassembled several old battery shop tools to scavenge motors and gears, and working on a telepresence robot
01:10 MrCurious just broke a lapdock 1000 by breaking the hdmi micro D connector
01:10 MrCurious and thats me in 2 sentences or more
01:11 GargantuaSauce in the next year i am going to build a canfield joint, a stewart platform and possibly a laser pcb exposer
01:11 rue_shop3 hey telepresence, tell me more
01:11 MrCurious i am also exploring an idea to do gait training for amputees using fully synthesized 9dof sensors mounted on both ankles, knees, and belt buckle, displaying a stick man color coded for good or bad walk to google glass or android phone while providing bio feedback sound
01:12 MrCurious as if you have a bad gait, like my wife who has a below knee ampputation, you can grind through your hip with your femur and get rewarded with a hip replacement
01:13 MrCurious i dont want to get rich off that, but just see it as a service to humanity thing, so if anyone wants to grab the flag and go, i wont objecct
01:13 MrCurious telepresense bot has 4 omni wheels, 2 owi arms retrofitted for positional accuracy, a raspi cam, 2 laptop cams 1 per hand, wquad core exnyos 2ghz, rasppi, kinect, and something or other else
01:14 MrCurious oh, 10dof to detect tipping due to over acceleration
01:14 MrCurious working on getting a hdmi display for the face, but i broke the last $38 lapdock, ,so i need to source a new one and NOT break it this time
01:15 MrCurious i also enjoy slow walks on moonlit nights, hoppy beers and ales, and science fiction television
01:15 GargantuaSauce baro won't do you any good indoors i don't think, there'll be more noise from air currents than signal
01:15 MrCurious that was way too much info... wasnt it
01:16 MrCurious suppose it could detect if the bot is in an elevator
01:16 GargantuaSauce hehe
01:16 MrCurious it has 2 wifi, one sourcec, 1 sink, so its easy to dev on, and easy to interface with when not home
01:16 rue_shop3 hmm, two cameras
01:16 rue_shop3 and an arm?
01:16 MrCurious 4 total
01:16 rue_shop3 mine just has one crapcam
01:16 rue_shop3 I'm haivng problems with buffer delays
01:17 MrCurious what cpu, what interface
01:17 rue_shop3 every peice of software seem to buffer the stream, by the time it gets to the cleint its 2s behind
01:17 MrCurious just send a stream of stills
01:17 rue_shop3 I tried a few things, left it with an mjpeg stream
01:17 MrCurious use zeroMQ for your socket communication
01:17 rue_shop3 I think its a 1G processor
01:17 MrCurious its the fasstest protocol i have found
01:18 rue_shop3 hmmm
01:18 rue_shop3 its all tucked into a corner right now
01:18 MrCurious you asked :)
01:18 rue_shop3 48V 7.2Ah battery bank
01:18 rue_shop3 WRT54G onbaoard for wireless
01:18 GargantuaSauce oh also when i said *a* canfield joint i lied
01:18 GargantuaSauce because i will probably end up building a dozen
01:18 MrCurious best source of battery i have found is $20 3rd party 3S macbook pro knockoff batterys on ebay
01:19 MrCurious even come with charge/discharge controlers
01:19 GargantuaSauce i am toying with the idea of putting spotlights on them on the ceiling
01:19 GargantuaSauce and being able to control where they point on my workspace
01:19 rue_shop3 canfield is the new tripod eh?
01:19 MrCurious why buy 1 when you can get 2 for twice the price
01:19 rue_shop3 I'm thinking about a laser pointer, that can point to where things are
01:19 GargantuaSauce yeah that too
01:19 MrCurious i thought a canfield with a turntable on top would be ideal for robot neck
01:20 GargantuaSauce i will certainly be testing the motion control with a laser
01:20 rue_shop3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maZwbsg169w
01:20 MrCurious ok, now i am envisioning animated vector art laser mice being drawn on the floor for the cats torture and bewilderment
01:20 rue_shop3 what of the good ole days
01:20 GargantuaSauce well i already have laser galvos
01:21 GargantuaSauce you've seen the cube video right
01:22 rue_shop3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6p-1J551Y
01:22 rue_shop3 that one
01:22 rue_shop3 I was talking about making a 1 axis ver maybe tonight
01:22 GargantuaSauce no my laser cube
01:22 rue_shop3 but I'm gonna play with soem lcd's instead
01:22 rue_shop3 oh no
01:22 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OELxDGtESMI
01:23 GargantuaSauce will probably finish that project once i get pcb fabbing up and running
01:24 GargantuaSauce not sure what i want to do as far as a software interface goes
01:24 GargantuaSauce maybe just svg interpretation?
01:24 rue_shop3 whats it projecting onto?
01:25 GargantuaSauce my wall
01:25 rue_shop3 ah
01:25 rue_shop3 where do the artifacts come from?
01:25 GargantuaSauce they are IR flares modulated by the rolling shutter
01:25 GargantuaSauce don't show up to the human eye
01:26 GargantuaSauce i didn't bother to tweak the camera until they go away because they look damn cool
01:27 rue_shop3 ah
01:30 GargantuaSauce i should really make an asteroids clone or something for that
01:31 MrCurious GargantuaSauce: totally the sensor fusion talk i was wanting
01:32 GargantuaSauce there are some pretty cool problems in the control of the thing, since optimizing the path is literally the travelling salesman problem
01:32 GargantuaSauce and changes in direction need to be slow (and thus minimized)
01:32 GargantuaSauce the galvos' analog front end has a very good control loop, it is certainly more precise than the 10-bit dacs i was driving it with there
01:33 GargantuaSauce i think i have some fancy 24 bit audio dac ICs kicking around
01:34 GargantuaSauce and i can't decide whether to do pcb exposure with that or with a 1D laser + linear axis
01:38 GargantuaSauce also i have some very lofty goals for robot simulation+control software that i'm sure you'd find pretty novel
01:39 GargantuaSauce i want to develop the idea a little further before i prattle too much though
01:41 rue_shop3 make a laser plotter?
01:41 rue_shop3 hm
01:41 rue_shop3 I have a few flatbed plotters I could make a laser plotter with
01:42 GargantuaSauce no that'd be way slow
01:42 GargantuaSauce i'd use a polygonal mirror
01:42 rue_shop3 takes about 1 min to plot an average board
01:42 rue_shop3 k
01:42 rue_shop3 I have a box of them from laser printers
01:43 rue_shop3 and a box of laser printer modules
01:43 GargantuaSauce yeah i have a bunch of different sizes
01:43 rue_shop3 and a deck of laser printers
01:43 GargantuaSauce hehe
01:43 rue_shop3 :/ its a problem I'm seeking help with
01:43 GargantuaSauce i'd take 5-6 off your hands if it wouldn't be so damn expensive to ship them across the continent
01:43 GargantuaSauce unfortunately most of the optics are useless
01:44 rue_shop3 wrong wavelength?
01:44 GargantuaSauce yeah like 850nm as opposed to 400
01:44 rue_shop3 what are the laser diodes in a printer anyhow
01:44 GargantuaSauce red or near-ir
01:44 rue_shop3 they are just red?
01:44 rue_shop3 I thought they were ir
01:44 GargantuaSauce i think they are either
01:45 GargantuaSauce iirc there are a couple different photosensitive compounds they use on the drums with different sensitivity spectra
01:45 GargantuaSauce not sure on the specifics
01:46 GargantuaSauce but either way, both are way too far from violet :(
01:47 rue_shop3 I have ...2? 4? barcode scanners too
01:47 GargantuaSauce on the other hand the angle is pretty small so you can compensate for the beam spreading near the edges i guess
01:47 rue_shop3 the ones with the spinning magnets
01:47 rue_shop3 er mirrors
01:48 rue_shop3 TIME FOR MORE TEA
01:52 rue_shop3 ok ground of the mega32
01:58 GargantuaSauce no! no! bad! i need to not be thinking about making precision optics
01:59 rue_shop3 just use the precision optics people are throwing out
02:00 GargantuaSauce what has a parabolic mirror in it
02:00 rue_shop3 the laser printers do
02:00 rue_shop3 a strip one
02:00 GargantuaSauce the ones i've disassembled use lenses only
02:01 rue_shop3 oh, mirror
02:01 GargantuaSauce (aside from the polygonal mirror)
02:01 GargantuaSauce it only needs to be a 2d parabola
02:01 GargantuaSauce THUMP
02:01 GargantuaSauce either someone is breaking into my house or a big chunk of ice just fell off the roof
02:02 rue_shop3 yay, I achived flashing led
02:02 GargantuaSauce what kind of lcd are you using
02:02 rue_shop3 hd447880
02:03 rue_shop3 one of like... 20 I have
02:03 rue_shop3 I have a few mystery ones
02:03 GargantuaSauce oh a text one
02:03 rue_shop3 oh, come to think of it
02:03 GargantuaSauce thought you already have loads of code for those
02:03 rue_shop3 I have 3 graphics ones I have source to operate too
02:03 rue_shop3 yea, I just want to run up some of the displays
02:03 GargantuaSauce what are you gonna put on it
02:04 rue_shop3 flex my code muscle a bit
02:04 rue_shop3 dosn't matter
02:04 rue_shop3 hello world :)
02:04 GargantuaSauce ah just dicking around :)
02:04 rue_shop3 indeed
02:04 rue_shop3 my head is tooo foggy for much more
02:05 GargantuaSauce http://workman-industries.net/images/f4_mb.jpg
02:05 rgantuaSauce phantom j
02:05 rue_shop3 heh
02:05 rue_shop3 lets see realtime stereo fft people!
02:05 rue_shop3 fire mode, like winamp!
02:06 rue_shop3 cause that really kicks the lamas ass!
02:06 GargantuaSauce that is actuallly pretty easy on a micro of that calibre
02:06 rue_shop3 I'v not pulled off fft yet
02:06 rue_shop3 on anything!
02:07 rue_shop3 its on the todo list...
02:07 GargantuaSauce yeah because all your hardware is ancient :V
02:07 rue_shop3 :P
02:08 rue_shop3 I dont try to run java on it, so I'm fine
02:08 GargantuaSauce seriously dude having an fpu is like night and day
02:09 rue_shop3 yea, if I choose to write in asm, then with a 20mips, 8 bit processor, I can run circles around whatever people are doing now
02:09 rue_shop3 thats not streaming related....
02:09 rue_shop3 you dont stream on microcontrollers, duh
02:14 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop3: http://youtu.be/a5ZIuQRi5j0 <-- cortex-m4 micro
02:14 rue_shop3 why not use an intel SBC?
02:16 Triffid_Hunter because the cortex-m4 takes maybe a watt or less as far as I know
02:16 Triffid_Hunter lowest power intel I've seen takes 15-30w
02:16 GargantuaSauce there are a bajillion reasons to use a micro instead of a soc
02:16 rue_shop3 there is a gap in my view of the world, you either running outright software on an intel or your a smart io controller
02:17 GargantuaSauce that gap is 10 years antiquated
02:17 rue_shop3 I dont thin kit is
02:17 GargantuaSauce do you know what a smartphone is?
02:17 GargantuaSauce they aren't x86 based!
02:18 rue_shop3 meh, granted, but I dont make smartphones
02:18 rue_shop3 hmm, wonder why I use *this* lcd library...
02:19 rue_shop3 where is that large box of lcd's....
02:19 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ETyFmAMFjY#t=318
02:19 GargantuaSauce video decoding on a microcontroller
02:19 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop3: cortex-m4 micros typically have a meg or so of flash, maybe quarter meg of ram, are true 32 bit with true fpu, have multiple internal busses with automatic arbitration, run at 200MHz+ and have a ton of peripherals, things like ethernet, LVDS, DMA plus all the standard micro stuff- spi, i2c, timers, quadrature, motor control, etc etc
02:19 Triffid_Hunter quite amazing beasts
02:20 rue_shop3 mm I have this HD61602 screen to try out too
02:20 GargantuaSauce now i know you arent going to do video decoding on a robot
02:20 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop3: if you get one with external ram interface, they will happily run uclinux ;)
02:20 rue_shop3 if I am, Iput an intel computer on it
02:20 rue_shop3 if I'm gonna run a computer, I run a whole computer
02:20 rue_shop3 an intel one that I have a world of resrouces for
02:21 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop3: y'know, some of us actually want to do full IK and kalman filtering of multi sensor input incl. video data on our microcontrollers :P
02:21 GargantuaSauce yeah all on one chip
02:22 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop3: something I'm working on at the moment is an event based fat filesystem layer to match the DMA-backed SD card interface I've written
02:22 GargantuaSauce no constellation of microcontrollers all connecting with latency to a central controller that uses watts and watts of power
02:22 rue_shop3 rather throw an intel at it
02:22 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop3: sure, and make your robot twice the size due to battery requirements :P
02:23 Triffid_Hunter also, I'd hate to try and generate servo pulses on an application processor
02:23 rue_shop3 dont have to, my robots are huge anyhow
02:23 rue_shop3 generating servo pulses are what 8 bit io controlelrs are for
02:26 rue_shop3 dedicated interrupt system, no applications of any kind getting in the way
02:28 GargantuaSauce arm interrupts have priorities ya know :)
02:28 rue_shop3 I dont belive in having an application processor doing time critical operations
02:29 rue_shop3 most of them have a hard enough time keeping up on the multitasking people have them doing
02:29 rue_shop3 you should see how fast dos runs from the L1 cache of a P4
02:29 rue_shop3 casue a) it fits in there b) there is no multitasking
02:30 GargantuaSauce i have written bare metal x86, i am well aware
02:30 rue_shop3 mmm
02:30 rue_shop3 bloatware is keeping up with processor speed improvements
02:31 GargantuaSauce yes but bloatware is not a requirement
02:31 rue_shop3 Norton antivirus acually exceeds it
02:31 GargantuaSauce i am dead serious when i say a single modern microcontroller could do every task of the constellation on your hexapod
02:31 rue_shop3 haha, my hello world became a menu demo at some point
02:32 rue_shop3 dont care, it would be 8x the work to pull off
02:32 rue_shop3 I can run plain jane linux on it, no special compiling or anyting
02:32 rue_shop3 apt-get install vim
02:32 rue_shop3 done.
02:33 GargantuaSauce okay a soc and a microcontroller then :)
02:33 GargantuaSauce that covers your separate realtime and application parts too
02:34 rue_shop3 unless you have all the dev tools on the soc, I dont think its worth the trouble
02:34 GargantuaSauce i run debian on mine
02:34 GargantuaSauce and it compiles stuff jut fine
02:34 GargantuaSauce i compiled vlc on the damn thing
02:34 GargantuaSauce i don't even like doing that on my i7!
02:35 rue_shop3 yea, I dont want to get into compiling every app
02:35 rue_shop3 library dependency hell
02:35 rue_shop3 I run debian to avoid that
02:35 GargantuaSauce i only had to compile that for gpu support
02:35 rue_shop3 otherwise I'd still use slakware
02:35 GargantuaSauce everything else was stock packages
02:36 rue_shop3 huh, recompiled the source and it was a completely differnt program, that must have an interesting story behind it
02:36 GargantuaSauce wrote a bunch of stuff and never bothered to compile it?
02:37 GargantuaSauce probably had a broken toolchain at the time
02:37 GargantuaSauce been there
02:37 rue_shop3 it looks like I modified my lcd hello world into a menu system, then moved the code somewhere else and reverted the lcd code, but never recompiled it
02:37 GargantuaSauce ah
02:38 GargantuaSauce man why does it have to be 4:30 already
02:38 rue_shop3 damn, shop phone just went belly up
02:38 GargantuaSauce i am just spooling up
02:38 rue_shop3 do like me, drink tea, stay up
02:38 rue_shop3 even if your groggy
02:39 rue_shop3 I just got one lcd working, I ahve a box left to play with
02:39 GargantuaSauce i am a night owl but i am trying to maintain a sane circadan rhythm
02:42 GargantuaSauce http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/STM32F100C4T6B-HD.jpg
02:42 GargantuaSauce i love die micrographs so much
02:42 GargantuaSauce they are so fun to just gawk at
02:42 GargantuaSauce no fucking way would i ever do vlsi design but damn
02:44 rue_shop3 oo time to wind up the solder pot, havn't done this in a while...
02:44 rue_shop3 http://hackaday.com/2012/04/25/homebrew-solder-pot-is-too-dangerous-even-for-us/
02:45 GargantuaSauce hahah fuck
02:46 Jak_o_Shadows haha
02:46 Jak_o_Shadows I remember seeing that
02:46 GargantuaSauce the whispering is the best part
02:46 GargantuaSauce do you have some trick for stripping all the insulation quickly
02:46 rue_shop3 ...no
02:46 rue_shop3 :)
02:46 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop3: you run debian to avoid dependency hell? how on earth does that work?
02:47 rue_shop3 ACTAULLY, kinda
02:47 Triffid_Hunter every single time I've ever tried debian, that's exactly where I end up. within a week
02:47 rue_shop3 I have a slotted razor blade
02:47 rue_shop3 works as a small guage stripper
02:47 GargantuaSauce it's fine if you use ONLY packages from their system and no third party software
02:47 rue_shop3 Triffid_Hunter, I dont upgrade, only when I have to
02:47 rue_shop3 yea, I tend to be a few years behind the software curve
02:48 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: so what happens when their packages are broken, and the fix is in a newer version? I'm SOL..
02:48 GargantuaSauce what a surprise :D
02:48 GargantuaSauce yep
02:48 Triffid_Hunter I'll stick with gentoo then ;)
02:48 rgantuaSauce is arch master
02:48 Triffid_Hunter it only complains about version combinations that actually break, not every combination that a debian dev hasn't approved
02:51 rue_shop3 if I have a problem with a package being too old, or not available in any debian release, I compile, but I'v not had to do that in a long time
02:53 Triffid_Hunter compiling is no problem, but when I inevitably end up with a system where a good hundred or so packages have been hand-compiled, I figure it would have been easier to start with gentoo in the first place
02:54 Triffid_Hunter and it's so damn easy to transfer.. just unpack gentoo into some random dir, chroot, set it all up then boot into initramfs and swap the rootfs around
02:54 GargantuaSauce in theory i can update and recompile all custom packages with one command
02:54 GargantuaSauce i am too much of a wuss to actually do that though
03:03 GargantuaSauce it always amazes me when i go to some commercial website and it's down for maintenance
03:03 GargantuaSauce like hello, separate staging and production?
03:14 rue_shop3 SWEEET, I got it!
03:14 rue_shop3 2x8 screen, nonstandard
03:14 rue_shop3 responding to hd447880 controll
03:48 GargantuaSauce http://www.elitetools.ca/en/product/6-drill-press-vise-717026/
03:48 GargantuaSauce does that look ok to you or too cheap
03:50 rue_shop3 they have it covered in goo, looks standard quality
03:51 rue_shop3 good for holding DB9/25 connectors while soldering on wires
03:52 GargantuaSauce well i have a decent regular vise, just not one that can be repositioned on a drill press table
03:53 rue_mohr hit me!
03:53 rue_shop3 http://d32zx1or0t1x0y.cloudfront.net/2010/03/HD44780_breadboard_02_lrg.jpg
03:54 GargantuaSauce kind of annoying that the table has slots in an X instead of a parallel pair...assuming the distance was standard i could use that vise
03:54 rue_mohr hit me again!
03:54 rue_shop3 http://users.frii.com/~dlc/robotics/projects/botboard2/LCDPO.GIF
03:58 rue_shop3 did i just throw the lcd I was working with?
04:04 rue_shop3 sweeet! next mystery lcd working
04:05 rue_shop3 4x16
04:09 rue_shop3 nice, 2x24
04:09 GargantuaSauce they get weird and split horizontally past x16 dont they
04:10 rue_shop3 not this one
04:10 rue_shop3 the 4x16 is split funny, two lines, wrapped,
04:10 rue_shop3 A
04:10 rue_shop3 B
04:10 rue_shop3 A
04:10 rue_shop3 B
04:10 rue_shop3 characters after 16 of the first A goes to first character of second line A
04:11 GargantuaSauce fun
04:11 rue_shop3 meh, I'm just seeing how many I can get working in one night
04:11 rue_shop3 I have a bunch from nortel phones I'm sure are compatible
04:13 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: naw it's more like the controller has one long line of 80 chars and the 2x16 display displays chars 0-15 on the first line and 19-34 on the 2nd line.. something like that anyway from memory
04:13 Triffid_Hunter 4x40 displays have two controllers
04:13 GargantuaSauce it's 32+ wide ones i'm thinking of
04:14 GargantuaSauce they go
04:14 GargantuaSauce A C
04:14 GargantuaSauce B D
04:14 rue_shop3 ah yea, with the second half split, iirc I have one like that somewhere
04:16 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: eh that's a weird way to wire it
04:17 rue_shop3 hah, wow, this one has the top 3 pixels of the 2nd line along the bottom
04:17 rue_shop3 its a 1-3/7x16 display :)
04:20 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CDU6q_dG0s
04:25 rue_shop3 ah looka that, this 1x16 is split into two 1x8's beside each other
04:55 rue_shop3 hmm this one seems to be 8 data bits and a /we
04:55 rue_shop3 next...
05:31 rue_shop3 SWEEET, I got the screen from the nortel phone figured out
06:03 rue_shop3 hmm, cant get this one
06:30 rue_shop3 huh, the controller on this one is serial...
06:52 rue_shop3 another split 1x16
07:02 rue_shop3 VFD one isn't happy, needs more power
07:05 rue_shop3 http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Noritake%20PDFs/CU16025ECPB-W6J.pdf
07:05 rue_shop3 haha sweet
07:16 rue_shop3 hmm, no I think its phosphor wear, huh
07:17 Tom_itx still up ehh?
07:18 rue_shop3 parrt of me is
07:21 Tom_itx i got a 1 x 8 lcd
07:21 Tom_itx really too small to be useful for much
07:22 rue_shop3 indeed
07:22 rue_shop3 ooo its a 2x40
07:22 Tom_itx then there's the tall 1 x 40
07:23 Tom_itx about 5-6" long
07:23 rue_shop3 huh
07:23 Tom_itx how many have you found that use negative bias?
07:24 Tom_itx i got a few of those
07:24 Tom_itx the new ones just take 5v
07:24 Tom_itx or GND
07:24 rue_shop3 this one apparently has no lowercase character set
07:24 rue_shop3 the worst of these seem to be good with ground
07:25 rue_shop3 tho I wonder, there was one that didn't light up at all
07:25 Tom_itx give it some negative v and try it again
07:26 rue_shop3 no its pulled from a phone, and its a blob chip with a bundle of other lines that went to the keyboard
07:26 rue_shop3 I think I reversed power on it a few times
07:26 rue_shop3 I need food and sleep!
07:27 Tom_itx i used a couple 7660's for that
07:27 Tom_itx oleds require a power up sequence or you will cook em
07:27 rue_shop3 I got 13 displays going tho
07:27 Tom_itx 13's a bad number to stop on
07:27 Tom_itx better do a couple more
07:27 rue_shop3 my stomach just said it hit bottom
07:28 Tom_itx fry up some hashbrowns n eggs and sleep on that then
07:45 rue_house crap I think my ssd just faulted
07:46 rue_house gnight
12:34 MrCurious WILSON - https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q71/1497775_603152959739399_2072469884_n.jpg
12:43 robotustra 5 robots in DARPA chalenge are based on Atlas
12:43 robotustra one and the same hardware, different software
12:44 robotustra and they are NOT first one
12:44 robotustra SCHAFT — 27; IHMC ROBOTICS — 20; TARTAN RESCUE — 18; MIT — 16; ROBOSIMIAN — 14; TRACLABS — 11; WRECS — 11; TROOPER — 9; THOR — 8; VIGIR — 8; KAIST — 8; HKU — 3; DRC-HUBO — 3; CHIRON — 0; NASA-JSC — 0; MOJAVATON — 0
12:44 robotustra http://www.computerra.ru/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/720p-Pobeditel-schaft-robot.jpg
12:46 robotustra google bought 8 robotics companies in the latest year
12:46 robotustra http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/12/23/googles-schaft-robot-dominates-pentagon-contest/
15:37 robotustra NASA-JSC failed
15:37 robotustra it's all about our yesterdays talks
16:05 Hukka HAs someone already created a compilation with fast forward of all the task attempts?
16:05 Hukka The stream was failing so badly that I gave up
16:15 robotustra I find the only one about Schaft
16:16 robotustra and whole 10 hours movie
16:19 Hukka I actually more interested about the failures
16:19 Hukka Seems like most of the teams drumming up hype before the test days got really bad scores
16:19 Hukka So I'd like to see what exactly happened there
16:23 Celelaptop Hello
16:25 rue_house maybe I should jsut ditch the SSD's and run my root fs on raid too
16:25 rue_house magnetic raid
16:25 Celelaptop I heared a flying device needs at least 4 motors to be able to control all 6 axis (3 translation and 3 rotations)
16:26 Celelaptop Then I wonder: why 4?
16:27 Triffid_Hunter Celelaptop: can be done with 3
16:29 Celelaptop How?
16:32 dhci celel it depends on how simply you want to achieve the stabilization. you could probably have one rotor with careful accel. decel that will get you wherever you want to be
16:33 Triffid_Hunter Celelaptop: well in order to yaw, you have to pitch or roll first then generate an uneven lift pattern
16:33 Triffid_Hunter eg you pitch down then command roll, then pitch back up
16:35 Celelaptop wait a minute, I have to find a picture of pitch/yaw/roll.
16:35 Celelaptop ok.
16:36 robotustra can be done with 1 motor
16:37 robotustra better with 2
16:37 Triffid_Hunter 1 motor would need the blades to be on a gimbal of some sort
16:37 robotustra any helicopter does 3 tlanslation and 3 rotations
16:37 dhci here are some rotor configurations
16:37 dhci http://www.coptercraft.com/multirotor-frame-configurations/
16:39 Celelaptop A helicopter have 2 obvious rotors, but it needs to change the orientation of the blades of the main rotor.
16:39 robotustra http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofgWvKNEZqs
16:39 Celelaptop And I guess that with only one motor to orient the blades you can only pitch (or roll) the helico.
16:40 robotustra WHAT?
16:41 robotustra we not take into accounts motors of control
16:41 robotustra so, 2 motors do all motions in 3D
16:41 Celelaptop They need to be taken into account.
16:41 robotustra why?
16:41 robotustra it could be a pilot motions
16:41 Celelaptop Without them you don't have your 6 degrees of freedom.
16:42 robotustra whithout what?
16:42 robotustra deflection of blades could be done with servo
16:42 Celelaptop It's a motor.
16:42 robotustra or alive pilot
16:42 robotustra is it a motor?
16:42 Celelaptop definitely.
16:43 Triffid_Hunter servo is defined as a motor with position feedback
16:43 robotustra ok
16:43 robotustra 3 motors is minimum than
16:43 Celelaptop And I'm not takling about live pilots, I'm talking about robots.
16:43 Celelaptop Fully autonomous.
16:45 Celelaptop What's your configuration with 3 motors that give 6 axis of control?
16:45 Triffid_Hunter Celelaptop: tri-rotor, each one is either variable pitch or variable speed
16:45 robotustra one is carrying motor + 2 servo motors
16:47 Celelaptop How do you not get a constant yaw with a tri-rotors?
16:47 Celelaptop Like the Y6 here: http://www.coptercraft.com/multirotor-frame-configurations/
16:49 Celelaptop And if you don't get a constant yaw, how do you control the yaw then?
16:49 robotustra http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8-knXyo4rU
16:49 robotustra 2 motors
16:50 robotustra why do you need such stupid schematic?
16:51 Celelaptop Yes, it's a classical helico. Which deflect the blades of the main rotor.
16:52 Celelaptop And that needs two motors to be able to deflect for roll and pitch.
16:52 Celelaptop I say motors, but it can be any actuator.
16:53 robotustra 3 DOF == 3 motors
16:54 Celelaptop That's what I thought.
16:55 robotustra by definition
16:55 Celelaptop But we're taking about 6 controls.
16:55 Celelaptop 3 translations and 3 rotations.
16:55 robotustra car - 2 DOF == 2 motors
16:55 robotustra rotation is a derivative motion
16:56 Triffid_Hunter Celelaptop: the fun with copters is that you can change which axes your 3dof are on, so you may only have 3dof at each instant, but given time you get all 6
16:58 robotustra have to make a carrige for robot
16:59 robotustra 2D
16:59 robotustra my handicape robot head :)
17:05 Celelaptop It was in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2itwFJCgFQ
17:05 Celelaptop At 6:23
17:06 Celelaptop It says the quad have 4 DOF, roll, pitch, yaw and acceleration.
17:13 robotustra I think people does not understand the meaning of "DOF"
17:13 robotustra acceleration is not a DOF
17:13 robotustra it's physical value
17:17 robotustra and if it's "mapped" to the handle of control it doesn't mean that it's DOF
17:17 Celelaptop Yes but as a DOF is supposed not to be doable with a combination of others, I think it's quite handy to consider it a DOF for a quad.
17:30 Celelaptop How many DOF do you have if you want to control 3 transalations and 3 rotations?
17:31 robotustra 3 DOF
17:31 robotustra translational and 3 rotarions
17:32 robotustra but they could be reduced to 3
17:32 robotustra becaue you can make a system that works like that:
17:33 robotustra 1 motor on, 2 off - translation
17:33 Jak_o_Shadows I would've said 6.
17:33 robotustra but You'll controll only 3
17:33 robotustra 2 morot on, 1 off - rotation
17:33 Jak_o_Shadows well, how you control it is different.
17:34 robotustra why?
17:34 robotustra and SOLID has 6 DOF in space
17:34 robotustra and DOF of control is a different story
17:34 Jak_o_Shadows I joined late, possibly, but having x amount of DOF doesn't tell you squat about what it actually is.
17:35 robotustra so, A SOLID with 3 motors can do 6 DOF motion in space with 3 DOF control
17:36 robotustra because 1 DOF of motor expects to rotate it in any direction with arbitrary speed
17:37 Celelaptop What is a DOF of contorl?
17:37 robotustra and with any acceleration
17:37 robotustra a lever
17:37 Celelaptop ok
17:37 robotustra forward/backward
17:38 Celelaptop Does every DOF need to be independant from the others?
17:39 robotustra do you know what is "linear combination" ?
17:39 robotustra you can make them dependent or independent
17:39 robotustra it's just a matter of construction
17:42 robotustra http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABm1IDnWYkA
17:42 Celelaptop I have some notions of linear algebra and vector space.
17:43 robotustra 6 DOF drone with 3 motors
17:43 Celelaptop I picture a DOF as a dimention of a vector space.
17:43 robotustra actually 4, but it could be reduced to 3
17:44 robotustra are you familiar with generalized coordinates?
17:44 robotustra in theoretical mechanics?
17:46 Celelaptop not at all.
17:48 robotustra ok
17:49 Celelaptop I'm looking up on wikipedia.
17:51 robotustra ok
17:51 robotustra what are you building?
17:53 Celelaptop Currently, nothing.
17:54 Celelaptop I'm gathering information.
17:55 Celelaptop One of my projects is a flying table. With a diameter of 30 cm max.
17:56 Celelaptop It would be basically a flying inverted pendulum. :)
18:07 robotustra what for?
18:19 Celelaptop For fun. What else? :)
18:36 rue_house so, I'm trying to fix computer, bbl, maybe
19:00 rue_house well, looks like I have a problem, the ssd card isn't showing ANY signs of life
19:13 rue_house and I'v upgraded my hardware, cant use the old drives anymore, need sata drives...
19:15 Tom_itx ssd went capoot on ya ehh?
19:15 Tom_itx what brand?
19:15 Tom_itx how old?
19:15 rue_shop3 Adata, 1 month
19:16 rue_shop3 the old one thats quite ill is about a year
19:16 rue_shop3 I think I'm gonna go back to magnetic + raid
19:16 Tom_itx no deposit no return?
19:16 rue_shop3 its got a 3yr warranty
19:16 Tom_itx ssd not reliable enough?
19:16 rue_shop3 not even close yet
19:17 Tom_itx i wondered
19:17 Tom_itx i got a small one but just use it occasionally
19:17 Tom_itx to test a setup or something
19:20 rue_shop3 oh well, just proves, new technology sucks ass, use old
19:23 rue_shop3 I actaully think its an onboard power converter fault
19:24 Tom_itx no fix?
19:24 rue_shop3 I was able to meter out the 3.3V testpoint on it and it was ok
19:25 rue_shop3 all the other testpoints are just labeled TP#
19:25 Tom_itx dean was using one, i wonder how his is holding up
19:27 rue_shop3 oo this one is 2x24
19:27 rue_shop3 (lcd)
19:27 Tom_itx seems his is goin good
19:27 Tom_itx #avr
19:44 ace4016 i've heard the quality and reliability of SSDs are fairly low for most brands. if you don't have an intel, just expect it to fail, it seems
19:45 ace4016 producers are probably trying to push products out before they're ready because of the drastic changes in the base technologies used for SSDs
19:50 rue_shop3 bah, I'm going back to magnetic, I'll run it in raid
19:51 Tom_itx mine was a corsair
19:51 Tom_itx very low mileage
19:52 Triffid_Hunter heh, I'm just waiting for someone to make a 2.5" caddy that's basically a hardware raid of microSD cards and call it an SSD
19:53 ace4016 lol
19:53 ace4016 wouldn't be surprised if there was already one on the market :P
19:54 rue_shop3 today I was pondering raid 10 usb flash drives
19:55 rue_shop3 just fee it them as they fail
19:55 rue_shop3 ^d
19:55 Triffid_Hunter naw usb is too slow
19:56 Triffid_Hunter thing with microSD is that write might take a little while but other than that they can really shift data fast, 110MB/s for the ultrafast cards from memory
19:56 Triffid_Hunter and if you're staggering writes over many cards, write speed might not be too bad
19:56 rue_shop3 hah the HD61602 is like a 44780 but for 7 segment
19:57 Triffid_Hunter "UHS-I cards, specified in SD Version 3.01,[20] support a clock frequency of 100 MHz (a quadrupling of the original "Default Speed"), which in four-bit transfer mode could transfer 50 MB/s. UHS-I cards declared as UHS104 (SDR104) also support a clock frequency of 208 MHz, which could transfer 104 MB/s."
19:57 rue_shop3 I was specifically getting the drives with write speeds comperable to the read speeds
19:57 Triffid_Hunter "UHS-II cards, defined in Version 4.0, further raise the data transfer rate to a theoretical maximum of 312 MB/s using additional row of pins." :O
20:17 root_____ woot
22:55 rue_shop3 MrCurious, the bushing for the tailstock is all wrong
22:55 rue_shop3 its out by about 3mm
22:56 rue_shop3 if you tighten the nut on the tailstock, the handle siezes
22:56 rue_shop3 it shouldn't do that from the design I see here
22:58 rue_shop3 wait, wtf
22:58 rue_shop3 these dont push the bushing forward
22:58 rue_shop3 why are these set screws here!?
23:09 MrCurious new laptop day!
23:09 MrCurious (well ultra cheap laptop day)
23:09 MrCurious hopefully it will let me do kvm nicely for virtualization dev work http://www.frys.com/product/7912910?site=sa:adpages%20page:P105_WED%20date:122513
23:10 robotustra hope :)
23:10 robotustra killed all bots
23:11 MrCurious another machine to try to hackintosh too
23:11 robotustra on all play servers
23:15 robotustra OMG! WTF? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHnaLbghZ1o
23:15 rue_shop3 there, it took 3 hours, I made a pipe splice
23:15 rue_shop3 same guy?
23:15 rue_shop3 nope
23:16 rue_shop3 if the other guy did it, it would be good
23:16 rue_shop3 shouldnt be allowed to call that 3d printing :)
23:17 MrCurious i like the hexapod cnc better
23:17 MrCurious or the plasma cutter hexapod of doom
23:23 robotustra 3d shitting
23:23 robotustra not even cobweb
23:28 MrCurious now... if it could climb walls with gecko feet technology
23:28 MrCurious and 3d print on ceiling, then descend and print a chandaleer....
23:48 GargantuaSauce dat servo jitter