#robotics Logs

Dec 05 2013

11:00 robotustra hi
13:48 GuShH rue_house: Hrmmm I've been having some slight issues with the tailstock alignment, but I think it's due to my chuck (it's not a real Jacobs, what-ya-gonna-do, can't seem to afford a proper 16mm or bigger jacobs, instead got a cheaper version)
13:49 GuShH might have to get a MT2 shank for a smaller chuck, got a few 10mm doing nothing right now... perhaps that will be a safer bet for smaller holes and keep the 16mm for bigger stuff
13:49 rue_house are you being consistant with the pressure on the lock?
13:49 GuShH first time it's given me problems though (I can see the bit twisting a little bit once it enters the center-drill hole / pilot
13:49 GuShH rue_house: yeah
13:49 rue_house I notice mine varrys position ith lock pressure
13:50 GuShH I have it "indexed" with the wrench
13:50 GuShH when it's in line with the chuck I know that's locked
13:50 rue_house no, the top
13:50 rue_house the extension lock
13:50 GuShH I don't lock it when I drill
13:50 GuShH as the quill has to move
13:50 rue_house well there ya go
13:50 GuShH there's no visible play
13:50 rue_house explore it, i bet you find lots of play when its not locked
13:50 GuShH I should indicate it though
13:50 GuShH good call
13:51 GuShH I can't see the oil inside moving when I push and pull that's what I meant by no visible play
13:51 rue_house mine moves almost 1.5 thou between not locked and soft lock
13:51 GuShH oh and I had a wtf moment with regard to the oil... I drew the quill all the way in and oil began to pour out of the oiling port, huge loads.
13:51 GuShH had a laugh
13:51 rue_house ?
13:52 GuShH you don't oil your tailstock?
13:52 rue_house yea, I dont give it tonnes
13:52 GuShH it keeps oil inside, turns out it had so much it squirted out
13:52 GuShH and made some grunting noises.
13:52 rue_house you filled it :)
13:52 GuShH well I found it needs the oil to move freely
13:52 GuShH more or less, a squirt a day I thought it would drain out
13:53 rue_house minei s pretty free
13:53 GuShH it does drain out of everywhere else, but the tailstock.
13:53 rue_house I'v only hit the oilers twice since I got it
13:53 GuShH mine is an oily mess.
13:53 GuShH I'd rather it stays well lubricated
13:53 GuShH I need to get a higher weight oil for the gears, grease doesn't work very well and 40W flies off eventually
13:54 GuShH the back gears
13:54 GuShH I've been told to use 85 or 90W
13:54 GuShH couldn't find the stuff anywhere.
13:54 rue_house back to work!
13:59 GuShH ohhhhhhhh
13:59 GuShH a used electron drill
13:59 GuShH always wanted one
13:59 GuShH must.not.bid
13:59 GuShH SO COOL
14:01 armyofevilrobots @Gushh : http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EDMHomeBuilders/info
14:59 robotustra I was Death Ray, electron drill sucks
15:14 GuShH robotustra: was or want?
15:14 GuShH robotustra: within reality I could get an electron drill, not so much a death ray.
15:14 robotustra sorry want
15:14 robotustra I can make one
15:14 robotustra but I'm scared
15:15 robotustra I can die during experiments
15:15 robotustra trying to focuse it
15:15 GuShH with a magnetron?
15:15 GuShH I could as well, but I know better not to.
15:16 GuShH Same as most of us could make a massive bomb or what have you
15:16 robotustra no
15:16 robotustra magnetron is not an option
15:16 GuShH I think my 16mm chuck is bust
15:16 GuShH it centers fine on anything bigger than 5mm but at 3mm it doesn't, and that's the minimum it takes safely
15:17 robotustra death rays are scalar magnetic field
15:17 GuShH the smallest center drill I used is 4mm on the shank, ends up off center
15:17 robotustra you need special holder and special drill
15:17 GuShH now, yesterday it was working fine... it's not the MT2 shank, or anything to do with the morse taper.
15:17 GuShH robotustra: shut your mouth
15:18 robotustra he he
15:18 GuShH you don't need a collet for a center drill
15:18 GuShH chucks are perfectly fine for this use.
15:18 GuShH there's just something wrong with this one, maybe I need to take it apart and clean it
15:18 robotustra a drillbit?
15:18 GuShH http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/CenterDrills123456.jpg
15:19 GuShH n4 works fine, n2 doesn't anymore. anything under 4mm ends up off center, maybe I over-tightened it at one point this morning, but I don't think so
15:19 GuShH at any rate I have smaller chucks I can use, but no MT2 shanks
15:20 GuShH and nope the center drill is not bent, same happens with anything I chuck under that size.
15:20 robotustra drill with smaller and then do with bigger
15:20 GuShH no?
15:20 robotustra for test
15:20 GuShH robotustra: the chuck is not holding the bits straight
15:20 GuShH I don't need to even indicate it, I can see it
15:21 robotustra ok
15:21 GuShH it's weird, I haven't "crashed" the chuck or anything
15:21 GuShH (drill chuck, jacobs style)
15:21 GuShH sleeved
15:22 robotustra it can be cracked inside
15:22 GuShH operates fine
15:22 GuShH if anything one of the jaws could be bent slightly
15:22 GuShH but it closes fine, except it's a bit off center
15:22 GuShH at the jaws.
15:22 GuShH sigh... it's almost new, only has a couple months of light use.
15:24 robotustra cycle the jaws
15:24 GuShH open and close? works fine
15:24 GuShH nothing binding
15:24 GuShH no noises
15:24 robotustra no
15:24 GuShH you can't change their place
15:24 GuShH they are "keyed"
15:24 robotustra ok
15:24 GuShH numbered
15:24 GuShH 1, 2, 3
15:25 robotustra so, "Chinise quality"?
15:25 GuShH they're all chinese now
15:25 GuShH it's mid range quality
15:26 robotustra so, try higher
15:26 GuShH can't find anything better
15:26 GuShH nothing like rigid supreme or similar
15:26 GuShH ridgid
15:26 robotustra and...
15:26 robotustra no money?
15:27 GuShH I can't order offshore.
15:27 GuShH why would I have to buy a new one, this is a new one
15:27 robotustra so, send it back
15:27 GuShH nah they don't take returns
15:27 robotustra and ask to replace
15:27 GuShH it's one of those items they don't replace
15:27 GuShH like taps, dies, drills
15:28 robotustra chucks?
15:28 GuShH albrecht are nowhere to be found
15:28 GuShH robotustra: yes, because people are idiots and they ruin them, then pretend to get another one for free
15:29 robotustra if should be "if not damaged"
15:29 robotustra condition
15:29 GuShH it chucks bigger stuff just fine, that's what puzzles me
15:30 robotustra not aligned?
15:30 GuShH no
15:30 GuShH also I don't have a hydraulic press to remove the sleeve without damaging the chuc
15:30 GuShH chuck
15:30 robotustra may be it's a small chips in there
15:30 GuShH cleaned with my finger... don't want to use air
15:31 GuShH I also cleaned the morse taper, but at that point it's turning true, it's the jaws.
15:31 robotustra inside
15:31 GuShH yes
15:31 GuShH when you open it all the way your finger fits
15:31 GuShH it's a big-ish chuck
15:31 robotustra gonna go home
15:32 robotustra test
15:32 GuShH also how the hell do you remove the shank / arbor on these? there's no center hole
15:32 robotustra don't know
15:33 robotustra I have no problems :)
15:33 robotustra like this
15:33 robotustra what do you do?
15:33 GuShH http://www.beautifuliron.com/images/DrillChuckJacobs_JawNutKit.JPG
15:33 GuShH that's the split nut and the 3 jaws off a jacobs
15:33 robotustra blocked at work
15:34 GuShH aw
15:34 robotustra so, go home, bb in 2-3 h
16:08 GuShH ok after the arbor I'm getting a lot of deviation from center....
16:08 GuShH maybe I should remove the arbor and reinstall it, but without a center hole.... bah I'll figure it out
16:12 Tom_itx trying some chinese engraving bits...
16:21 GuShH alright took the arbor out, spread some dye... shoved it back in, removed... it's not an even contact
16:21 GuShH the arbor was indicated it's as good as it can be (as far as my indicator goes) it just wiggles a bit when I indicate over the etched logo, but the rest is spot on 0
16:21 GuShH it has to be the socket on the chuck itself, based on the uneven transfer of dye
16:22 GuShH there's some slight smear / rotational marks
16:22 GuShH the inside is not mirror finished at all
16:23 GuShH it's a bit rough, maybe by design? I was under the impression taper fits while frictional required an even surface area of contact, not many tiny spots
16:23 GuShH for accuracy reasons
16:25 GuShH le sigh.
16:25 GuShH why is it never something obvious like a chip between the jaws or some shit
16:28 GuShH Tom_itx: could this be why it's off by almost 1mm? http://gushh.net/tmp/chuck1.jpg --- http://gushh.net/tmp/chuck2.jpg --- http://gushh.net/tmp/chuck3.jpg --- Here the brand is considered mid-range, the arbor is high end (from local company Horo, they make the best stuff locally speaking).
16:30 Tom_itx i doubt that would throw it off that far
16:30 Tom_itx it might
16:33 GuShH Tom_itx: it's all I could find so far
16:34 GuShH however prior to a few hours ago it was fine, I had indicated it before.
16:35 GuShH the arbor was installed with a wooden mallet, I read hydraulic force can cause the arbor to jam up and deform the chuck body or worse
16:37 GuShH (while I don't have a press, I could've used a jack against something heavy)
16:38 GuShH bah I'll hit the high spots with 600 cloth and try again... I'm sick of it
16:38 GuShH there's just nothing better to be bought "new" here
16:39 KongfuPanda GuShH, buenas dias, senior !
16:55 GuShH KongfuPanda: sup
16:55 KongfuPanda not much , not much
16:55 KongfuPanda got involved with bitcoin
16:55 KongfuPanda now constantly stressed if it's going up or down
16:55 GuShH Tom_itx: well I kept sanding it down until it looked "more even", got fed up, shoved it in with the wooden mallet and replaced the arbor on the quill, haven't indicated anything yet but it does line up with a center hole
16:55 KongfuPanda don't want to lose my hundred buck :D
16:56 GuShH it'll go down
17:25 Tom_itx you could have lapped it with an old taper
18:42 GuShH Tom_itx: well it's better, but it's still off... something odd with the jaws
18:43 GuShH I don't have an old arbor with a j33
20:43 robotustra_ GuShH: alinement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyv8MbA4GrM
20:44 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yD3uBshJB0 i think this should be in the topic
20:44 GargantuaSauce because it rules
20:50 MrCurious GargantuaSauce: i second that
21:05 GuShH robotustra: wrong type of chuck, and the guy will die a virgin.
21:24 eadthem http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Caliper-Reading-METRIC-Standard/dp/B00B5XJW7I/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1386298468&sr=1-1&keywords=caliper+metric
21:24 GuShH http://25.media.tumblr.com/406e311324b1381c94d757b8415f252c/tumblr_mf002p94GZ1qdlh1io1_400.gif
21:24 eadthem thoughts, quality, works ?
21:26 MrCurious why not get digital ones
21:26 MrCurious half the price
21:26 MrCurious does metric and english
21:27 eadthem that one does metric and english
21:27 eadthem dosent require a battery
21:28 eadthem can be read to .0001 inches eve if the dial dosent go down that far
21:29 MrCurious ok
21:30 GuShH MrCurious is MrDigital
21:30 MrCurious thats MrModern to you
21:55 Tom_itx i'd rathere have digital because if you get a chip caught in the gear, it will jump .020"
21:55 Tom_itx then it's a pita to get it back where it's supposed to be
21:59 eadthem must admit ive never had that happen
21:59 eadthem makes sense tho
22:00 Tom_itx i have.. several times
22:00 eadthem you can always just rotate the dial to zero it
22:00 Tom_itx i _use_ mine
22:00 eadthem but that wont get the chip out
22:00 eadthem well granted i use a 6 inch offbrand at work all the time but thats electronics work
22:00 Tom_itx i'd much rather have digital and if i really need to double check i'll grab the mics
22:00 eadthem also got a nice 18 inch starret dial calaper at work to
22:01 Tom_itx those are alot more
22:01 Tom_itx 18 & 12" are pricey
22:01 eadthem ya its used to verify stencils
22:01 Tom_itx 24"
22:01 eadthem DEK frame solder paste stencils
22:01 Tom_itx 12 for that matter too
22:02 eadthem dont know my only gripe with myn at work is that it dosent have metric
22:02 MrCurious does schenzen air smell like burnt hair?
22:02 eadthem even tho all the machines are in standard
22:03 eadthem so hypatheticaly if someone were to build a robot that needed to have accruacy
22:03 eadthem would say using a 1/2 inch pin guage and a laser be a good way to calabrate it?
22:04 eadthem been thinking on it for while
22:05 eadthem keep comming back to if i had a 1/2 or 1 inch high accruacy pin guage and it was inserted in the axis of the robot, i could read the diamiter with a fine laser and use that to judge distance
22:05 Tom_itx well, i keep a square gage machined into the box of my calipers
22:07 Tom_itx you can get cheap digital calipers but if you want good ones, Starret Fowler, Mitutoyo... you will pay $100 +
22:07 eadthem ya mitutoyo dose good stuff
22:08 eadthem http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002FS974/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
22:08 eadthem have a couple of those
22:08 Tom_itx mine are General brand
22:08 Tom_itx but i've got several of those
22:09 Tom_itx maybe one Starret
22:09 eadthem took me forever to find one that had decimal .1 and .01 inches as well as 1mm and .5mm
22:10 eadthem most of them had 64th or 32th's for inches
22:10 eadthem i have no time for fractions
22:12 MrCurious how irational of you
22:12 eadthem one day standard will go away
22:13 eadthem then everyone will need 1/2 the number of sockets and wrenches
22:13 MrCurious or they will need 2.18 times more...
22:13 eadthem ?
22:13 eadthem mmmm
22:14 eadthem i assume that everyone needs a set of standard and metric at present
22:14 eadthem 1/2 my car is metric
22:14 eadthem the engine part is metric rest is standard
22:15 eadthem most hardware store bolts are standard only.
22:15 eadthem yet most items bought now are metric based
22:35 Tom_itx it won't go away
22:35 Tom_itx they tried it in the 70's and it was a fiasco
22:38 Duzz its rare for me to hear it reffered as common rather than imperial
22:54 GargantuaSauce http://www.springrc.com/new/en/ProductView.asp?ID=103
22:54 GargantuaSauce dynamixel knockoffs? hmmmMMmm
23:13 GargantuaSauce looks like it's a clone of RX-24 but is completely shit by comparison
23:14 GargantuaSauce (but costs 1/4 as much)
23:31 MrCurious resume updated, the remainder of the evening is mine
23:43 MrCurious scored a Motorola Lapdock 100 for $38 today
23:44 MrCurious hdmi screen + lipo batteries should be great for robot parts as in baxter style face
23:54 rue_house boiler cant dump heat into the house fast enough
23:54 rue_house right now, it can just barely keep up with the house losses
23:57 MrCurious welcome to canada?
23:57 MrCurious add a nitrous system to it to kick out more BTU?
23:58 GargantuaSauce add more AVRs
23:58 MrCurious fire up some really old pc's
23:58 MrCurious plug in all the soldering irons