#robotics Logs
Nov 18 2013
#robotics Calendar
00:06 rue_house I know a guy who waitied 8 months for winter tires
00:06 rue_house told them what they could do with them when they called to tell him they were in
00:07 Casper lol
00:07 rue_house its a good thing english has so many words for implied references
00:07 Casper I waited 2 months for 1 #38 drill bit but that wasn't at canadian tire
00:07 MrCurious are things hard to get in canada?
00:07 Casper and I wasn't in an hurry...
00:07 Casper MrCurious: hard? no, cheap? sometime
00:07 rue_house china only takes 22 days
00:08 Casper talking about china and 22 days... let's check how long...
00:08 MrCurious true.most of what i get comes from china. often directly
00:08 rue_house unless you pay for shipping, then its like 10
00:08 Casper 29 Oct 2013... yeah not quite 22 days yet...
00:09 sper needs to order more fro
00:12 Casper oh yeah need to get a kit at canadian tire to change the valve thing on my car tire... it leaked...
00:12 rue_house I broke my vise today :(
00:12 rue_house I was squishing something, and it snapped
00:13 Casper lol
00:13 rue_house apparently it had a weak spot in the casting, just a tiny little one
00:13 Casper did the piece fell off on your foot?
00:13 rue_house no
00:13 rue_house the front jaw broke off the slider
00:13 Casper you're lucky
00:14 Casper when heavy stuff break, that's always where it fall
00:14 rue_house I'v had that vise a long time I'm sad
00:15 Casper get a better one now...
00:15 Casper hmm...
00:15 rue_house it has to be almost 18 years old
00:15 Casper I know about the only tool that dewalt don't make: vice...
00:16 rue_house for the last 18 years almost every project I'v made passed thru that vise at some point or another
00:17 rue_house its been welded, hammered, drilled, tapped, milled, painted, burnt, glued, filed...
00:19 Casper fix it! :D
00:19 rue_house if it weren't damn cast iron, I'd have welded it back already
00:21 Casper can't weld cast iron?
00:21 rue_house not really
00:21 rue_house it'd be like
00:21 rue_house trying to glue cake
00:22 Casper easy... use icing! :D
00:23 rue_house you end up with a hard repair along whats basically soft metal
00:23 rue_house it just fractures again around the edges
00:24 Casper detail! :D
00:25 Casper OUCH...
00:25 Casper I checked some camera lens
00:25 Casper I found an interressing one
00:26 Casper 10-22mm
00:26 Casper it have a 130$ rebate on it, so it's ONLY 619.99$ !
00:29 rue_house http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-AC-Voltmeter-Blue-LED60-500V-Panel-Power-Voltage-tester-Meter-110V-220V-/261328556275
00:30 rue_house aaaah, so THATS how, one hand on one wire, the other hand on the other wire, and the last hand holding the meter!
00:31 rue_house Lola8088, gnight
00:33 rue_house http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Chrome-Electric-Guitar-Neck-Plate-with-One-Rubbermat-Four-Mounting-Screws-/251195523150
00:33 rue_house dat sure is shiny chrome
00:34 Casper yeah
00:34 Casper http://www.adencamera.com/product-overviewer.asp?ProdID=958&Category=1 ← wanna make me an xmas gift?
00:34 rue_house too many small parts
00:35 Casper pricey....
00:35 Casper so, no wideangle lens for me
00:36 Casper (and that's not even an L lens)
00:36 MrCurious the show "almost human" is good!
01:05 Jak_o_Shadows It's very conceivable that the power draw of 2 10kg servos could cause a slight brownout or similar causing a mcu to reset?
01:15 MrCurious add capacitors :)
01:16 Jak_o_Shadows I have, that's the frustrating thing. I have got 8600uF in there with the 5V, so that the the servos don't drain too much
01:36 Jak_o_Shadows Thing is, i gather it's a power problem because the system works fine with 1 10kg servo and 1 9g servo. Power shouldn't be a problem though, as I have been powering it from two separate voltage regs (switch mode ones), that are powered off a computer psu.
01:36 MrCurious use 2 power supplies
01:36 MrCurious see if that solves it
01:37 MrCurious put the mcu on battery
01:38 Casper Jak_o_Shadows: also, be sure to use decoupling capacitors
01:38 Casper even on the bulk caps
01:39 Casper big cap have high ESR
01:39 Jak_o_Shadows A decoupling cap is a decent idea. What's the normal value for them, hundreds of nF?
01:55 Jak_o_Shadows Might've helped, might not have. I'm using a ZIF socket, would that affect anything?
02:17 rootB hiHi robotics
02:17 rootB Do you guys know anything about reflow ovens?
02:17 rootB i think i have an issue wtith mine?
04:33 Jak_o_Shadows Hmm, would something like http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-MERCURY-150Mbps-Mini-AP-Wireless-N-WiFi-Repeater-Bridge-Router-Wlan-White-/350853854934?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item51b084f6d6 work for getting wireless out to the shed?
11:20 markyc4 morning
11:52 GargantuaSauce no, it is afternoon!
12:09 markyc4 morning here where are you ?
12:10 GargantuaSauce atlantic canada
12:11 markyc4 i am in mantoba
12:11 markyc4 manitoba
12:52 wildmage i'ts morning here!
12:52 wildmage i't
13:03 DagoRed Congrats!
13:03 DagoRed Where is "here"?
14:00 GuShH I think I killed a server...
14:00 GuShH This is what happens when guys from another age develop a web system though.
14:00 GuShH namely IBM.
14:00 GuShH 20k for their entry level package and no matter what it's always implemented poorly
14:53 wildmage DagoRed, currently Los Angeles
14:53 DagoRed nice
14:53 DagoRed .t PST
14:53 makepi Mon, 18 Nov 2013 12:37:49 PST
21:15 ShH shakes fist at robotus
21:17 GuShH Interesting... in theory one can calculate the knurling diameter vs the knurling wheel's to either come up with a starting OD that matches a single tracking OR multiples... I just tried it with 3 trackings instead of one with a 2mm pitch knurl set and I got a nice fine diamond pattern, so in "theory" one can obtain multiple diamond sizes with a single die set.... neat
21:17 GuShH of course 3 passes means it takes 3 times longer...
21:18 Tom_itx but comes out 3 times better?
21:18 GuShH ok this is new... I sent an ebay seller a question about one of his items (well a few questions) ... he went ahead and bought one of my items and called me thinking I was seriously going to buy his product (if I were going to I would've hit the "buy now" button right?)
21:18 GuShH Tom_itx: actually I was reading about it, there is such a thing as "over knurling" (over doing it!)
21:18 Tom_itx of course you can calculate the knurl pattern
21:18 GuShH specially in aluminum where flakes get pushed back in and in turn make anodising very difficult
21:19 GuShH even with lots of flood coolant
21:19 Tom_itx you can get the same bad effect by pushing the knurl too far into the material
21:19 Tom_itx i've literally made tens of thousands of knurled parts
21:19 GuShH I tried that and it tracked a single time with the OD I was working with (pretty close to what it should've been) I just don't like how thick 2mm really is, so I was playing with multiple tracks
21:19 GuShH Tom_itx: From your CNC days?
21:20 Tom_itx earlier
21:20 GuShH Oh noes, you are older than we thought!
21:20 Tom_itx New Brittan Gridley 6 and 8 spindle lathes
21:23 GuShH Tom_itx: I've never heard of them, you must be REALLY old.
21:23 ShH chuc
21:24 GuShH Tom_itx: tens of thousands of knurled parts all by hand or in a fancy turret lathe?
21:24 Tom_itx 6 & 8 spindle bar feed
21:24 Tom_itx 12' bars
21:24 GuShH oh so you were the original manufacturer for the roswell alien's anal probes?
21:24 Tom_itx on those brass parts would go thru 6 at a time in ~20 min
21:25 GuShH Bah that's just cheating.
21:25 Tom_itx did some aluminum as well
21:25 Tom_itx lotsa chips
21:25 ShH still feels violated about that buyer-turns-seller situa
21:26 GuShH also it's late at night (12) what kind of person does this.... damn drunks.
21:26 GuShH calling me 'bout stuff I ain't gonna buy
21:27 Tom_itx http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsa.8b01790/
21:27 GuShH I wonder if that's you on the photo
21:28 GuShH Tom_itx: what was the primary use for the chips / shavings, sold as scrap?
21:28 Tom_itx yep
21:28 Tom_itx they had spinners to remove the oil
21:29 Tom_itx i probably filled 4-6 dumpsters per shift
21:29 GuShH :/
21:30 Tom_itx there were 3 machine rooms one per type: gridley, davenport and brown & shapr
21:30 Tom_itx sharp
21:30 Tom_itx i'd guess 20-30 per room
21:31 Tom_itx meh 15-20
21:31 GuShH what happened when sharp turned dull? would they shoot him and get a new one from the package?
21:31 Tom_itx idiot
21:31 GuShH racist, calling him brown.
21:31 Tom_itx they were midsize machines
21:31 Tom_itx davenports did very small parts
21:31 Tom_itx the gridleys did the big parts
21:32 Tom_itx mostly
21:32 Tom_itx up to around 1.5"
21:33 GuShH Hmm haven't tried doing face knurls yet
21:34 Tom_itx each position had a tool cross slide as well as a turret slide for drills etc
21:34 Tom_itx all cam and gear driven
21:34 GuShH neat
21:34 GuShH let's each get a couple of those, I'll house half of one in my garage
21:34 GuShH Where's RifRaf anyway?
21:34 Tom_itx a couple of them had brakes for cross drill / tapping
21:35 Tom_itx the 8 spindle did
21:35 Tom_itx actually 2, one for the drill then the next one for the tap
21:35 GuShH so hobby-grade unfriendly.
21:36 Tom_itx most of em were taller than me
21:36 GuShH you and your production machine tales are making me sad.
21:36 GuShH why do I have to play with toys....
21:36 Tom_itx http://www.jemautomatics.com/used-multi-spindle-screw-machines-for-sale/new-britain/used-new-britain-model-62-multispindle-screw-machines.html
21:36 Tom_itx there used to be some decent pics but i can't find em now
21:37 Tom_itx the model 60 & 61 were much older than the 51 52 and 860
21:37 Tom_itx the latter 3 had enclosed feed tubes
21:37 Tom_itx alot quieter
21:37 GuShH To think some are still in use
21:38 Tom_itx probably not many
21:38 GuShH I bet more than you think!
21:38 Tom_itx i worked 2nd shift part of the time and we'd rummage thru the tool room at night
21:38 Tom_itx one night i found old WW2 ammo tooling for 50 cal
21:39 GuShH Did you politely take it home?
21:39 Tom_itx no
21:39 Tom_itx i had no use for it
21:39 GuShH At least tried out some of the tools?
21:39 GuShH Bah you are no fun.
21:40 GuShH I'm mostly fascinated by rifling, but no other technique involved in the machining of a firearm...
21:40 GuShH The most intriguing to me is the smooth twist "rifling"
21:41 GuShH I've seen it in air rifles, not sure it's used anywhere else
21:41 GuShH Imparts a spin without actually causing much friction, so less cleaning, and fewer losses in general
21:43 Tom_itx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSDCC95g-bU
21:44 GuShH sexy
21:44 Tom_itx looks like they added an air clutch or something on the side
21:44 Tom_itx that's not standard
21:44 GuShH pfft purist.
21:44 GuShH would someone from today's CNC world be able to operate one of these or would they go "what, no DRO? the hell with it."
21:44 Tom_itx i'd have my doubts
21:45 GuShH Was the entire setup 100% mechanical with different gears and cam setups?
21:45 Tom_itx they wouldn't know where to look to change the cams to begin with
21:45 GuShH So potentially you had a long time of setup between different parts?
21:45 Tom_itx and the feed gears etc
21:45 Tom_itx most of a shift
21:45 GuShH I'd still fancy one.
21:45 Tom_itx i could do a complete setup in a shift
21:45 Tom_itx including changing the feed tubes & collets
21:46 Tom_itx the collet holder tubes were on average 2' long
21:46 Tom_itx get packed with shavings
21:46 GuShH hrmm http://www.modelenginenews.org/eze/images2/eze2_knurl2.jpg
21:47 Tom_itx http://www.autoturn.biz/new-britain-screw-machine-toolholders-attachments.htm
21:47 Tom_itx there's a better pic of the slides
21:47 GuShH have you tried turning rope-knurl dies with taps?
21:47 Tom_itx full of tooling
21:47 Tom_itx no
21:47 Tom_itx i did those threaded wheels was about it
21:48 GuShH I might try it soon
21:48 GuShH the tap is used as a gear hob / cutter
21:48 GuShH the blank die is allowed to spin freely until it's indexed with the tap
21:48 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/reprap/drive2.jpg
21:48 Tom_itx i know
21:48 GuShH tap on spindle
21:49 ShH facep
21:49 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/reprap/drive6.jpg
21:49 Tom_itx 3mm iirc
21:49 Tom_itx and yes i calculated the root pitch for the tap and material
21:49 GuShH So that's basically a die used to index part of the extruder?
21:49 Tom_itx yeah
21:50 GuShH or a gear, I'm just seeing it the other way around
21:50 GuShH neat
21:50 Tom_itx that was gonna be a feed wheel for a reprap
21:50 GuShH I just want to make one for thumb screws
21:50 GuShH I know, boring.
21:51 GuShH http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/remark/pages/Temp/images/knurls3.jpg
21:51 Tom_itx they also had recess cutters that fit on the drill cross slide
21:51 ShH likes oldsc
21:51 Tom_itx for internal undercuts
21:51 Tom_itx for o rings etc
21:52 Tom_itx those were fun to set up
21:52 GuShH which material tends to knurl better (in general) brass or bronze?
21:52 Tom_itx we rolled threads too
21:52 Tom_itx never ran bronze
21:52 Tom_itx i suppose both would be similar
21:53 GuShH I could've got a small lot of bronze stock but I wasn't sure it was actually bronze to begin with
21:53 Tom_itx i got about an 1.25" or so bar
21:53 Tom_itx maybe another a bit bigger
21:54 Tom_itx probably 10"
21:54 Tom_itx don't remember why i got them now
21:54 GuShH I've had bad luck with bronze fittings and my air compressor heh
21:54 GuShH (namely those cheap ball valves)
21:54 GuShH snap, woosh.
21:55 Tom_itx we ran alot of brass
21:55 GuShH I'm so cheap I only replaced one of the valves, left the other one as-is
21:55 GuShH Then again I got a fancy stainless steel valve, much better now.
21:56 ShH just hates the fact they're not rated anywhere and the clerk didn't even know what they were
21:56 GuShH ie. the pressure rating is not stated.
22:01 Tom_itx the difference with ^^ those lathes was they used form tools for the parts instead of single point cutters
22:02 Tom_itx so there were progressive form tools on 2-3 stations that would complete the profile
22:02 GuShH black friday... what a lie over here, they don't have big discounts...
22:02 Tom_itx racist
22:03 GuShH why is it called black friday anyway
22:03 Tom_itx why do they get their own shopping day?
22:03 GuShH lol
22:03 Tom_itx supposedly the day business turns a good profit
22:03 Tom_itx instead of operating in the red
22:03 GuShH they should try it on a daily basis then.
22:04 GuShH assholes.
22:04 GuShH So if inflation didn't exist, we wouldn't have to cope with blacks on a friday?
22:07 Tom_itx http://www.mastertask.com/manufacturing/bar_machines/new_britain.php
22:07 Tom_itx learn how to operate one
22:07 GuShH fancy bananas http://www.douglasconnection.com/images/1333650274699-787241956.jpeg
22:08 GuShH Tom_itx: I got lost at "main power switch"
22:09 wildmage Tom_itx, how's it going?
22:09 Tom_itx good i suppose
22:09 wildmage and the channel?
22:10 Tom_itx partly cloudy to mild with flurries expected
22:10 wildmage that's not what I meant
22:10 Tom_itx the regulars are not as regular as they were
22:10 wildmage there seems to be more activity than I used to see
22:10 Tom_itx a few noobs now and then
22:11 wildmage it actually looks much healthier here
22:11 Tom_itx topics probably vary more now
22:11 Tom_itx as you can see
22:15 wildmage it actually looks much healthier here
22:15 wildmage doh
22:15 wildmage well... I'm just about robotted out...
22:16 wildmage i've been working on robot mapping algorithms for several years now\
22:16 wildmage it's driving me crazy
22:16 wildmage i want to get more involved with the hardware now
22:16 wildmage learn some skillz
22:18 Tom_itx i haven't built any in quite a while either
22:19 Tom_itx it's still a good hangout for general mechanics etc
22:21 Tom_itx last thing i did was update my cnc mill
22:27 GuShH Tom_itx: chip conveyor? whatever happened to gravity?
22:27 GuShH big hole in the ground and a couple midgets with shovels would've been cheaper.
22:27 Tom_itx soo much volume of chips
22:28 Tom_itx too*
22:28 Tom_itx the old ones were manual though
22:28 Tom_itx hand crank
22:28 GuShH Pretty sure that hand crank didn't last long unmodified
22:28 Tom_itx actually they did
22:28 GuShH why?
22:29 Tom_itx why what?
22:29 Tom_itx they were heavy duty
22:29 GuShH why not automate it
22:29 rue_house yera, put a hand crank on it
22:29 Tom_itx they could always find some monkey to turn it
22:29 rue_house get a midget to turn it
22:29 GuShH lol
22:29 GuShH no, my pit midgets belong to my pit.
22:29 rue_house they need jobs too
22:30 GuShH MY ARMPIT
22:30 rue_house wildmage, !
22:30 Tom_itx it was a pita when you got busy and forgot to crank it every so often
22:30 rue_house wildmage, what have you learned about mapping algs?
22:30 GuShH I really want to start anodizing alu...
22:30 Tom_itx GuShH, join #linuxcnc and ask
22:30 GuShH matte black
22:30 Tom_itx several there do it
22:30 rue_house so do it
22:30 GuShH nothing fancy
22:31 GuShH rue_house: I'll get some clothes dyes and some battery acid soon
22:31 Tom_itx one is doing black too
22:31 rue_house I think it can be done with laundry chemicals
22:31 rue_house see google
22:31 Tom_itx for can am aftermarket parts
22:31 GuShH more or less you already have everything you need at home
22:31 rue_house I hear uranium generates some nice colours
22:31 rue_house what do they use in smoke detecots?
22:32 GuShH so does flyback's anus
22:32 GuShH americum in old ones
22:32 GuShH newer ones seem to be photo-based
22:32 GuShH IR?
22:32 rue_house are the new ones canadiam or chinanium?
22:32 GuShH chinadium of course.
22:32 rue_house all the cheap ones are still ion
22:33 GuShH You know you have a proper lathe when the smoke detector goes off
22:33 rue_house "a bit of every farmers field in every detector"?
22:33 Tom_itx gnite boys n gurls
22:33 GuShH either that or the motor burnt out.
22:33 rue_house oh, that would be japadium
22:33 rue_house Tom_itx, goodnight!?
22:33 e_house looks at the c
22:33 GuShH fukusimium
22:33 GuShH 1:17AM!
22:34 rue_house just think, at some point, just about any ocean water will do
22:34 GuShH it already does near china I bet!
22:34 GuShH no need to turn on the lights at night either
22:34 rue_house japan...
22:34 GuShH but china ...
22:34 GuShH enjoy the blue hue
22:35 rue_house chania hasn't had a nuclear slip yet have they?\
22:35 GuShH every day, you just don't hear about it
22:35 GuShH we had many and I bet you never heard about them
22:35 GuShH in fact we had a lot of radioactive material handled by regular couriers who didn't even know what they were transporting.
22:36 GuShH I'm not making it up...
22:36 GuShH sadly.
22:37 GuShH rue_house: what's the basic surface area vs current formula for anodizing alu?
22:38 GuShH I might try using lead plates for the cathodes
22:38 GuShH would stainless steel work?
22:38 rue_house GuShH, the more the better, but not too much or it'll just flake off
22:38 GuShH seems alu would work for the cathodes too
22:39 GuShH rue_house: I'm going to focus on the degreasing as well
22:39 GuShH it's just as important as every other step
22:39 GuShH I wonder if a small setup would take up too much space
22:39 ShH wonders how many buc
22:39 rue_house enough current and the oil will react with the water to become something else
22:40 GuShH I think the oil just won't let the surface exposed to the acid bath
22:40 GuShH so the pores will never open
22:40 GuShH or rather grow
22:41 GuShH whatever the right term is...
22:41 rue_house as I said, enough current and your ok
22:41 GuShH but I hear some detergent and boiling water works fine
22:41 rue_house you can boil it with the current
22:41 GuShH pfft let's see your results!
22:41 GuShH temperature has to play a role surely
22:42 rue_house enough current and you get lots of temerature
22:42 rue_house even some fun arcing off the plates to the water
22:42 GuShH but I've read temperature needs to be controlled
22:42 GuShH like with photography and specially colour film
22:42 rue_house yea, too hot and the project melts
22:42 GuShH developing won't work at any temps
22:42 ShH s
22:43 rue_house "In what way did you mean 'good' when you said 'good results'?"
22:43 GuShH usable, with no streaks, durable layer with even colour
22:43 GuShH not professional but "good enough"
22:44 GuShH I hear sealing with steam causes streaking
22:44 GuShH something with the dye running off before the pores close up
22:44 rue_house http://bryanpryor.com/anodizing.php
22:44 GuShH rue_house: why is battery acid used? why can't any other acid be used?
22:44 GuShH I never liked chemistry
22:45 GuShH de-smut, how do you do that?
22:45 GuShH 45 minutes!!
22:45 GuShH I don't have that kind of patience.
22:46 GuShH also who cares about distilled water, it's not a commercial product
22:46 rue_house its just die? I thought they used metal hydrates?
22:47 rue_house http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize.html
22:47 GuShH it's just pigments
22:47 GuShH the ones used in clothing seem to work well it seems
22:47 GuShH of course they sell fancy dyes
22:47 GuShH one thing though cheap aluminum (2005 or similar alloys) won't do glossy anodizing at all
22:47 GuShH just matte black and it comes out greyish I've been told by some anodizing guy
22:48 GuShH I noticed that difference in colour on a cheap emergency battery charger I got
22:48 GuShH the cap is duller than the body (usually tubes are 6000 series)
22:48 GuShH and they use crap 2000 series for bulk parts like caps, which is what I'm going to do given the way lower price
22:50 GuShH such bad taste http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/bluegun.jpg
22:50 rue_house yup, I'm gonna stick to felt pens and acetone
22:50 GuShH there's no way I'm buying a starter kit... you can get all you want from a hardware store and a big grocery store
22:51 GuShH desmut also uses acid? what type...
22:52 GuShH aha, if it's been mirror polished there's no need to desmut
22:52 GuShH in fact it'll ruin the polish
22:52 GuShH good to know
22:52 Tom_itx GuShH, http://gnipsel.com/anodizing/index.html
22:53 GuShH GO TO SLEEP
22:53 rue_house http://www.brokenbrains.us/arena/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2368
22:53 GuShH but thanks
22:53 GuShH that applies to me as well... it's late
22:53 Tom_itx he's in linuxcnc
22:53 GuShH why is everyone using PVC for everything these days!
22:53 Tom_itx cheap
22:54 GuShH you can revert the titanium without any losses I've heard
22:54 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/mech/p1010110.jpg
22:54 GuShH not so much with the alu unless it's a very strict process
22:54 rue_house GuShH, ^
22:55 GuShH that heat gun looks older than mine
22:55 GuShH and mine is from the 80s
22:55 GuShH B&D, still works perfectly.
22:55 rue_house THAT heat gun went down with a boat, TWICE and still works
22:55 GuShH saw the new models, with fancy LCD displays and whatnot....
22:56 GuShH that's the thing, new ones don't seem to last much
22:56 rue_house tho it gradually coughed up so much mica I now use a new one
22:56 GuShH probably they skim on the heating element and every other "not so important" part like the blowe
22:56 GuShH r
22:56 ShH wonders if it was mica or asbe
22:56 ShH chuc
23:15 MrCurious anyone have cool progress to show?
23:25 rue_house I'm on the virge of re-arranging everything
23:25 rue_house I ahve a great ascii bar graph library, but nothing to really show for it
23:30 MrCurious ok
23:30 MrCurious sounds like progress
23:35 GuShH MrCurious: poppe le corn!
23:36 MrCurious ?
23:36 MrCurious pope of the corn people?