#robotics Logs
Nov 11 2013
#robotics Calendar
00:28 MrCurious the upside of tonight, it is beginning to be identifiable by appearance
00:55 MrCurious https://www.dropbox.com/s/zgx69jufnvxcymn/2013-11-10%2022.15.48.jpg
00:56 MrCurious pitures, so something happened
01:59 rue_house nicely assembled
02:00 rue_house I dont think anyone respects binding of those sliders, ever
02:00 rue_house what kinda motor do you have for it? (cutter)?
08:53 MrCurious any early birds on?
09:01 doomlord_ what timezone
09:03 MrCurious PST/PDT whatever we morphed to last weekend
09:03 doomlord_ gmt here
09:04 MrCurious i have stood on that time line :)
09:04 MrCurious it was clearly marked
09:05 doomlord_ so are robots going to save humanity by terraforming mars and venus and mining asteroids
09:05 doomlord_ or through a combination of peak oil and technological unemployment, be part of humanities destruction
09:06 doomlord_ (competing for sunlight in a renewable future)
09:07 MrCurious i thought they were supposed to take over, and manage the task of human conservation, preserving our species for ruture robot zoos
09:08 doomlord_ will robots have any advantage over the existing solar-powered molecular assemblers
09:08 doomlord_ aka plants
09:09 doomlord_ are they one of many symptoms of fossil fueled superabundance, along with cars/suburbia
09:10 doomlord_ i have difficulty perceiving progress with robots in parallel with peak oil and a 'renewable' (i.e. scarce energy) future
09:11 doomlord_ which is a big shame
09:16 MrCurious well... evolution..... make a tin man, and watch him evole into a human
09:24 theBear tin men don't evolve, the wizard gives them fake hearts !
09:25 theBear who said they gonna save anything ? we just make them for fun
09:25 MrCurious theBear: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zgx69jufnvxcymn/2013-11-10%2022.15.48.jpg
09:25 MrCurious getting closer. i think it is now obvoius what it will be :)
09:26 theBear i already seen that
09:26 MrCurious i didnt see your comment sry
09:26 theBear i hope something other than the rails support the other 2 axis when they in the middle
09:26 theBear i didn't say i commented
09:27 MrCurious nope only hardened steel rails
09:27 MrCurious but if it has issues, i will evolve the design
09:27 MrCurious or ask the wizzard to graft a heart on
09:28 MrCurious great line from promethius. what if you found out your maker made you simply "because he could"
09:30 DagoRed .HaD 3
09:30 makepi DagoRed: 0.) DIY CNC Rotary 4th Axis - http://goo.gl/0OaM75
09:30 makepi DagoRed: 1.) Robotic Sloth Haunts Your Dreams - http://goo.gl/8AdZU8
09:30 makepi DagoRed: 2.) Bluetooth Audio Adapter Hacked to Switch Off Amplified Speakers - http://goo.gl/bKDNQi
09:32 MrCurious they seem largely unrelated
09:33 MrCurious oh
09:44 DagoRed What seems unrelated?
09:46 MrCurious what the makepi bot spammed
11:03 ShH hands MrCurious a big ba
11:04 GuShH might be time to fabricate an inner tierod tool, since the only one available at the stores doesn't work at all (wasted time and money)
11:38 rue_bed for which?
11:41 GuShH rue_bed: they're all different
11:41 GuShH http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2902749 seems I'm not the only one, except these guys were being cheap
11:41 GuShH I just don't have any other option
11:42 GuShH we bought the camlock tool, it's pure crap -- it needs to be a sleeve type of tool
11:42 GuShH like this http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/trt46.jpg
11:42 GuShH I can fab something like that though
11:43 ShH was trying to not spend an entire day grinding and wel
11:43 GuShH seems this guy got them water cut and just welded them to the end of a pipe http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/eighttrackbikes/vw%20stuff/CIMG1087.jpg
11:44 GuShH indexed with pins...that's not an option though
11:44 GuShH also wouldn't work with this style of endrod, it's not all hexagonal
11:44 GuShH only the rear portion is.
11:44 GuShH end / tie rod ... sick of car parts, they're all different. just use a fucking stanard for all small vehicles quit being cunts about it all.
11:45 GuShH they range from 32 to 36 and even 48mm just for that hexagonal part, that isn't always available all the way through, often just the back portion.
11:46 GuShH and they keep using cheap ass steel even on higher end cars, which rusts like crazy specially in cold climates
11:46 GuShH I had to cut the locknut open, after a few cycles of heat and cooling it was still stuck with rust on the inside (no antiseize was added when they installed it either)
11:50 ShH shakes rue
11:52 rue_bed hahahhahah I'm gonna make a wooden mold for reshaping 2" pvc pipe into retangular project boxes
11:52 GuShH wood?
11:52 GuShH no square tubing available?
11:52 rue_bed yea, it wont absorb the heat of the plastic
11:53 rue_bed no its not
11:53 rue_bed round is used everywhere for electrical conduit
11:53 rue_bed heh, meaning its already csa/ul
11:53 GuShH yeah, well I mostly use square stuff :p
11:53 rue_bed rectangular pipe?
11:53 GuShH square tubing
11:53 rue_bed rectangular pvc pipe?
11:54 GuShH I was actually looking at some scrap cuts but even at 3mm wall thickness it's too soft for what I want to do
11:54 GuShH no, I'm talking steel
11:54 rue_bed I'm talking wood for project boxes
11:54 GuShH rue_bed: won't the slightest heat cause it to reshape back to it's original form?
11:54 rue_bed no
11:54 GuShH I bet it will
11:54 rue_bed over 100c
11:54 GuShH I've only heated PVC to flare ends
11:54 GuShH the cheap way
11:59 GuShH rue_bed: might be a cheap way to come up with storage for shelves...
11:59 GuShH let me know how it goes (I refuse to buy plastic boxes)
12:10 rue_house i want a project case for a handheld meter
12:10 rue_house I can never find good ones
12:13 GuShH rue_house: ask Tom_itx to mill you one :p
12:13 rue_house I dont need to
12:13 rue_house I can just use what I have and make it myself
12:14 GuShH ok... found a part from what seems to be a holder for the pool leaf net, it's not going to be used... I could've cut the tube in half and use it as a hose "support" (welding the other half parallel to the other) but I can always make one from scratch, the tube in this thing is nice as thick
12:14 rue_house "doing it yourself" is something too many north americans have forgotten even exists
12:15 rue_house anyhow I need a shower and breakfast
12:15 rue_house this cold isn't going away
12:33 GuShH MrCurious: http://gushh.net/tmp/dscn4441f.jpg
12:33 GuShH I think I'll keep it one more week
12:33 MrCurious careful... cats have been known to commit suicide
12:33 GuShH lies
12:33 MrCurious https://www.dropbox.com/s/zgx69jufnvxcymn/2013-11-10%2022.15.48.jpg
12:34 GuShH neat
12:34 MrCurious today i cut drill and tap the hole to mount the back, front and bottom slabs
12:34 GuShH how much does it weigh?
12:34 ace4016 GuShH, guns and cats...looks like you're a modern man!
12:34 GuShH how many KILOS of alu?
12:34 MrCurious a tad more than i expected
12:34 GuShH "guy found packing a kilo of 6061"
12:35 GuShH ace4016: we had 4 kittens to give away, this is the last one remaining
12:35 rue_house thats just a box
12:35 GuShH I think kittens can be used as a tool to get laid
12:35 GuShH lots of hot chicks want kittens.
12:35 MrCurious i think the aluminum for the side uprights was different... it milled super easy more like whipped creme than butter
12:36 GuShH prolly was
12:36 GuShH no stamps?
12:36 GuShH what does the invoice say
12:36 GuShH maybe it wasn't T6
12:37 GuShH or just a different alloy group, did it come from one of those places that will send you the first thing they find?
12:37 rue_house I love it when university kids take a billet of aluminum and turn it into a 1/8" L bracket
12:37 rue_house cause I know what they will be told if they ever try to dot hat in real industry
12:38 ShH would totally try to use steel wherever poss
12:38 MrCurious vista metals ATP-5
12:38 MrCurious rue_house: i have a bending brake for that task
12:39 GuShH is that a proprietary alloy?
12:39 GuShH based off what?
12:39 MrCurious no clue. it was tollling aluminum and had stickers to protect finish on both sides
12:39 GuShH 70HB hardness, isn't that what 6063-T6 is?
12:40 GuShH or 75
12:40 MrCurious i was not issued a petigree, nor did i base my purchasing decision on anythingmore but right size and ohhhh shiney!
12:40 GuShH yeah brinell of 75 typical for t6 on that alloy
12:40 GuShH heh it comes pre-polished!
12:40 MrCurious yup
12:41 GuShH reminds me I should call to get a quote on s&h for the billets I need
12:41 GuShH I never know when to call, they have odd hours
12:41 rue_house what are you casting?
12:41 GuShH at 5PM all you get is a fax tone
12:42 GuShH extruded billets (bars) for turning purposes.
12:42 GuShH end caps in this case 1 and 2 inch
12:42 rue_house you mean round stock?
12:42 GuShH right
12:42 rue_house ah
12:42 GuShH what's the difference between tube and pipe anyway? often the tube does not have a seam?
12:43 GuShH calculators don't care about them, they are treated equally
12:43 GuShH I just noticed the weld seam on the pipe I was going to use for the extractor tool...
12:43 GuShH might have to turn it down if the other pipe won't fit :(
12:43 GuShH interrupted boring cuts = annoying
12:52 MrCurious gush: this one any good? http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-3-JAW-PLAIN-BACK-LATHE-CHUCK-SELF-CENTERING-HARDENED-/300419285543?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item45f2628227
12:53 GuShH MrCurious: based on the price tag, it's most likely crap
12:53 GuShH do you need one for an indexing head?
12:53 MrCurious that was its main perk
12:53 GuShH remember you'll also need a backing plate (mount)
12:54 GuShH if it's not for precision work, most chinese lathes come with similar quality chucks anyway
12:54 GuShH anyway for real precision work you wouldn't use a 3 jaw chuck to begin with
12:55 GuShH my problem: the quality of the internal parts
12:55 MrCurious is it me, or is this posh http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Rotary-Table-Axis-Of-Rotation-For-The-4th-5th-Axis-Engraving-Machine-NEW-/330898498248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0b1662c8
12:55 GuShH heh
12:56 GuShH does it only rotate sideways?
12:56 GuShH hmm two connectors, two motors.
12:56 GuShH could be handy for indexing purposes
12:56 MrCurious 4,5th axis
12:56 ShH was only looking at the
12:59 MrCurious this is the one i want :) http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Engraving-Machine-Rotary-Table-H-Style-A-Axis-B-Axis-4th-5th-Rotational-Axis-/261300446896?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item3cd6b866b0
13:23 GuShH MrCurious: bah the closest store doesn't really ship to my zone unless they're shipping to someone else.... sigh
13:23 MrCurious you sure moving wouldnt be a better solution
13:24 MrCurious you know... going where te resources are
13:24 rue_house boxbeam, thats funn I never thought of that
13:28 GuShH MrCurious: ha
13:28 GuShH I'm nearest to the steel production than alu
13:28 GuShH I can get anything steel shipped for free in fact
13:29 GuShH non ferrous are harder to get around here
13:30 GuShH found a closer supplier, let's see if they'll answer the damn phone -- clearly emails are a new thing for them
13:33 GuShH nope, no aluminum... even though their website says they do sell it
13:39 MrCurious LIES!
13:39 GuShH well, what can I do
13:41 GuShH trying another place...
13:41 GuShH last one I've found
13:41 rue_house I need to work out how to get the bubbles out of my castings
13:41 GuShH they're really, really far away.
13:41 GuShH rue_house: flux
13:41 GuShH de-gassing is the key
13:42 GuShH also cold moulds will never give you the results you're after, specially with plain green sand
13:42 ShH s
13:42 GuShH oh I got the number of the courier they use on this other place, they were so lazy that instead of calling them they sent me his number
13:43 GuShH his / their / whoever the hell they are
13:43 MrCurious hah. ok thatas funny.... make a posh website for a store selling stuff people want badly, but dont actually sell anything. just a frustration honeypot
13:44 GuShH I must've emailed 30 places, called 10 so far
13:44 GuShH one got me back and forth between emails and phone calls with no result.
13:44 MrCurious they sell aluminum in stores in america
13:44 GuShH we have stores you can walk onto
13:44 rue_house what does one ust for flux?
13:44 GuShH just not nearby where I live.
13:44 rue_house whats a good degassing method
13:44 GuShH rue_house: washing soda works
13:45 rue_house !? really?
13:45 MrCurious well pack a mule and get up on the mountain :)
13:45 GuShH I think you can try baking soda and "BAKE" it to obtain washing soda if not
13:45 GuShH I've been told that works, but I think it shouldn't
13:45 GuShH MrCurious: what mountain? heh
13:45 rue_house wont that add a heap of calcium into it?
13:45 GuShH I think it burns off into gas
13:45 GuShH pulling all the crap up
13:45 rue_house http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161146644354 <-- from the usa, does that have a fixed shipping cost?
13:46 GuShH you make a tiny pack with aluminum foil and shove it in deep then stir
13:46 rue_house ! not just on top?
13:46 GuShH it has to go in
13:46 rue_house I suspect my stainless pot isn't helping either
13:46 GuShH why not? aside from the little thermal mass it has
13:46 GuShH that's my problem, the crucible.
13:47 GuShH forget about a graphite one, too expensive.
13:47 rue_house graphite would burn up pretty quick
13:47 GuShH rue_house: works with an US code
13:47 GuShH 40 bucks to somewhere in alabama
13:47 rue_house cool
13:47 rue_house I had to set it to fixed
13:47 GuShH they use graphite, or some sort of graphite...
13:47 rue_house thanks
13:48 GuShH at least jewelers do!
13:48 rue_house it would have to be covered to not burn away in the heat
13:48 GuShH you do have to cover the furnace
13:48 GuShH they make tungsten crucibles as well, but I figure those are even more expensive.
13:49 GuShH rue_house: it's called clay graphite
13:49 GuShH otherwise it's silicon carbide, from what I'm seeing
13:49 GuShH check it out http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/Crucibles.php
13:50 ShH frowns and thinks you could experiment and come up with your own for far less m
13:50 GuShH they are consumables anyway
13:50 GuShH for my first small scale tests I used plain steel, it doesn't last long at all. stainless is much better, but I couldn't find anything with enough thermal mass to work properly as a crucible
13:51 rue_house the stainless is eroding really badly
13:51 GuShH I tried my own clay mix with an inner and outer steel shell, complete failure after one burn.
13:51 GuShH the inner just fell apart
13:51 GuShH and the clay, while I let it dry for a week, began to crumble
13:52 GuShH I wonder what else could be used
13:53 rue_house we have a lot of pottery people around here...
13:54 GuShH rue_house: interesting, any particular reason?
13:54 GuShH I have a project related to that, but it's on standby also due to the alu issue
14:00 KongfuPanda GuShH, hey hey !
14:00 rue_house ok wait, your crucible project is on hold cause you want to cast aluminum?
14:02 GuShH rue_house: no
14:02 GuShH my pottery related project is on hold because I can't source some of the raw materials to machine the parts
14:02 GuShH but that's a side project anyway
14:03 rue_house pottery = crucible
14:03 GuShH pottery is just a hobby
14:04 GuShH you could turn a crucible if you wanted, but where would you fire it? make it out of what? it would just crack
14:04 GuShH bah I don't have any 2" nuts... not even 1" to weld to the end of this thing
14:04 GuShH should've got those grab bags at the hardware store with assorted nuts and bolts :p
14:05 rue_house I know a guy who makes electric kilns
14:05 rue_house and he says fire is the way to go
14:10 DagoRed I would believe it.
14:11 rue_house its more oxygen free
14:11 rue_house damn, its lunch already
14:13 KongfuPanda GuShH, hello ?
14:17 GuShH KongfuPanda: hi
14:17 GuShH rue_house: so this is today's goal, to replicate this tool http://www.ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tie-rod.jpg
14:18 ShH fetches some
14:19 SquirrelCZECH guys
14:19 SquirrelCZECH don't you know about something similliar but for two cells ?
14:19 SquirrelCZECH https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10161
14:19 uirrelCZECH needs circuit, that would charge and make 5V from 2S Li-Po bat
14:20 SquirrelCZECH P.S: charging and using in same time would be best! :-)
14:23 rue_house whats that?
14:24 rue_house GuShH, whats that?
14:24 rue_house SquirrelCZECH, I'v seen something yea
14:26 rue_house but alibabas image server is jammed and I cant browse it fast enough to take the time to help you
14:26 GuShH rue_house: a proper tie rod removing tool, for those newer german cars where you can't reach to use a regular wrench just about anywhere you look at.
14:27 GuShH this is why I like trucks better
14:27 rue_house ah, so you just have to make the little wrench bit at the end
14:27 GuShH yeah then weld a couple pipes, cut the slot
14:27 GuShH the crows foot kind of open wrench or "die" I need is 32mm, it just has to be sturdy enough to hold for a couple uses.
14:28 GuShH I have 1/4" square rod in mild steel, should suffice for the sides
14:28 GuShH I wonder If I should use the same square rod to come up with the profile
14:28 GuShH (cut almost to the end, bend, fill the gaps with weld)
14:30 SquirrelCZECH rue_house: :-/
14:30 rue_house make two, list one on ebay when done
14:31 rue_house ebays international shipping calculator is all screwed up too
14:31 GuShH rue_house: since nobody imports them or makes them here, that's a viable option if I wanted to, plus if you've seen the commercial tool I bought you'd laugh your ass off
14:31 GuShH I'll take a pic later.
14:32 GuShH although I would use hydraulic force to form the square rod in that case
14:37 GuShH bah won't work with the pipe diameter I've got, too small for this design.
14:37 GuShH I could still try to weld retaining nuts to use a simpler method
15:13 GuShH hmmm found a cool place, very helpful guy on the phone ... but yeah the shipping costs are higher than the materials
15:15 GuShH guy told me there should be another supplier nearby but he couldn't remember the name or the street.... sigh
15:16 GuShH I might have to go with the reseller after all... 40% higher cost but if we factor in the shipping... it should be cheaper
22:36 MrCurious1 i wonder if CNC wouold work good using a USB->parallel adapter
22:36 MrCurious1 or if that would bork up timings
22:41 GuShH MrCurious1: too slow generally speaking and depending on the IC used, not reliable
22:42 MrCurious1 damnit
22:42 GuShH well, are you going to stream the raw data and have your processor execute the instructions?
22:42 GuShH or do you want to send instruction by instruction, the old fashioned way
22:45 GuShH MrCurious1: so I guess potassium is an important metal after all
22:45 MrCurious1 potasium? we talking about K-chanels now?
22:46 GuShH seems so
22:48 MrCurious1 seems my motivation streak ended with a very heavy diner
22:48 GuShH diners should be as light as possible!
22:48 GuShH you can shove stuff up your mouth during breakfast though.
22:49 ShH of course tends to be a heavy eater an
22:49 GuShH reminds me I should get back on my exercise routine
22:50 MrCurious1 yup
22:50 ShH needs one of google's email addre
22:51 MrCurious1 wonder how thick steel lwould be to hold perfect square and flat over 40"x30" with only edge supports, and maxx of 20 lbs additional material support weight
22:52 robotustra 1mm
22:52 MrCurious1 no 1mm would flex
22:52 robotustra 2mm
22:52 MrCurious1 thinking more like a cm
22:52 GuShH it would still flex
22:52 MrCurious1 but the problem would be getting it perfect flat
22:52 robotustra add 1 mm until it stop to flex
22:52 GuShH lol
22:53 GuShH MrCurious1: good luck with that
22:53 MrCurious1 yeah
22:53 GuShH having a steel plate of that size milled is not cheap
22:53 MrCurious1 perhaps 1/2" aluminum x 30 x 30
22:53 MrCurious1 and have the mill level it
22:53 robotustra not clear for what reason?
22:54 MrCurious1 clear?
22:54 robotustra what precision do you want to achive?
22:54 GuShH why do you need this plate
22:54 robotustra you final goal
22:54 MrCurious1 god-level
22:54 Tom_itx MrCurious1, no on the USB->parallel adapter
22:54 Tom_itx definitely not
22:54 MrCurious1 like nasa-on-a-good-day level
22:54 ShH thinks someone somehow cashed a check with his
22:55 MrCurious1 bed for cnc milll that is 30x30 inch
22:55 robotustra to mill satelites?
22:55 GuShH make a nice sturdy square tubing frame and some 3mm sheet on top
22:56 GuShH why more?
22:56 Tom_itx 1" would still flex some. what are you willing to put up with?
22:56 MrCurious1 i like that idea
22:56 robotustra 30 inches is too big I think
22:56 MrCurious1 go big or go home??
22:56 Tom_itx my 1/2" steel worktable does rather well
22:56 MrCurious1 i think i will need to lay some cross supports in
22:56 Tom_itx 3 x 4' approx
22:57 MrCurious1 maybe make a torsion box
22:57 robotustra MrCurious1: what will be the travel of carrets
22:57 MrCurious1 i think aluminum over steel. the aluminum would let me elvel it
22:57 MrCurious1 carrets?
22:57 robotustra ok, table
22:58 MrCurious1 26" x 26" x 6" quill envelope
22:58 MrCurious1 estiamte
22:58 robotustra so, you can make the table 26x26
23:00 MrCurious1 26.25"x30"
23:00 MrCurious1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/zgx69jufnvxcymn/2013-11-10%2022.15.48.jpg
23:00 MrCurious1 thinking gush's idea of some tube extrusions as supports
23:01 MrCurious1 then perhaps a sacrificial 3/4 mdf on top of that
23:01 MrCurious1 then the question is do i want to fill the tube extrusions with resin or something to stiffen them
23:03 MrCurious1 http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy_cnc_router_table_machines/72016-filling_aluminum_extrusions_concrete_cement.html
23:03 MrCurious1 old question, no answer
23:04 GuShH resin won't do much
23:04 GuShH mdf will cushion and flex / deform on it's own
23:05 MrCurious1 then there is no right answer and i am doomed no matter what
23:05 GuShH you can use geometry to limit flexing on the axis of interest
23:06 MrCurious1 maybe i should do some load testing on some extrusion
23:06 MrCurious1 see how much it deforms and how easy
23:06 GuShH thing is, everything flexes.
23:06 GuShH cast iron included
23:07 MrCurious1 its a wood/aluminum cnc mill made primarily out of 1/2 " thick aluminum or thicker
23:07 MrCurious1 maybe just put a bed on it, then see how bad it performes, and improve as needed
23:08 GuShH your weak point will be the joints between your aluminum parts
23:08 GuShH not your bed specifically
23:08 Tom_itx mount it to a granite stone
23:08 GuShH it also flexes!
23:08 Tom_itx not quite as much
23:08 GuShH but at least it'll be quite flat
23:09 Tom_itx go get a gravestone and use it
23:09 GuShH have you lapped the meeting faces of every bracket and part? time to bust out the prussian blue and play your favorite overkill song
23:09 Tom_itx they don't need it anymore
23:09 GuShH hahah
23:10 GuShH MrCurious1: don't worry about it too much right now
23:10 MrCurious1 yeah
23:10 Tom_itx no no.... spend sleepless nights worrying
23:10 MrCurious1 yeah all lapped with 4 - 6 bolts per joint
23:10 GuShH the only part I hate about using blue dye is it never seems to dry and it always makes a mess...
23:11 Tom_itx use the spray dykem
23:11 GuShH I've used a sharpie on a pinch
23:11 GuShH Tom_itx: I'm sure they sell different types, but the one I have never dries.
23:12 GuShH at least it's easy to remove
23:12 Tom_itx i know what you're talking about
23:12 Tom_itx comes in a 1/2 pint can with a brush
23:12 GuShH I know you know I know you know we know I know that you know
23:12 GuShH mine could pass as toothpaste.
23:12 GuShH that would be an unfortunate accident
23:12 Tom_itx i dare ya to try it for that
23:13 GuShH it ought to be pretty toxic
23:13 GuShH although it doesn't say anything about it
23:13 ShH eye