#robotics Logs
Nov 10 2013
#robotics Calendar
01:39 GargantuaSauce my goodness this assembly is tedious
01:39 GargantuaSauce everything has to be done six times!
01:42 rue_bed what.. are you doing in assembler?
01:43 rue_bed six times?
01:43 zap0 MrCurious, you have a mouth fetish?
01:44 GargantuaSauce i am assembling my new hexapod
01:44 rue_bed oooh
01:44 GargantuaSauce and i don't have a proper wrench for m3 nuts so i'm using damn pliers
01:44 rue_bed yea, that was my issue with mine, every peice I made had to be done in multiples of 6
01:44 rue_bed I have one hundred and something stupid circuit board holders
01:45 rue_bed make a wrench
01:45 rue_bed use some 1/8" aluminum plate
01:45 rue_bed and a file
01:45 MrCurious more a chocolate fetish
01:45 rue_bed the one I made is 3 years old now, dosn't fit any worse than it did origionally
01:45 MrCurious squish it between my toes, and let the cats lick it out
01:46 GargantuaSauce hot
01:46 MrCurious brackets working out good gar?
01:46 GargantuaSauce i think so
01:47 GargantuaSauce my allen key is verging towards cylindricality though
01:48 rue_bed just cut it back a bit
01:48 zap0 get out a file and make it hexagonical again
01:48 rue_bed how many custom peices does your hex have?
01:48 MrCurious is it picture time yet?
01:48 rue_bed you have all seen mine yes?
01:49 GargantuaSauce it has exactly one custom piece at the moment, the body
01:49 rue_bed if yours isn't made from popsicle sticks I dont recall having seen it
01:49 GargantuaSauce will take pics when it's all assembled
01:49 GargantuaSauce oh there's been an iteration in between
01:49 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj9gFFyR3-Y
01:50 GargantuaSauce not sure what i'm gonna do for the feet yet, possibly print something
01:50 rue_bed mine has like wow I cant count it all
01:50 rue_bed I got to 39
01:51 rue_bed but each leg has
01:51 GargantuaSauce http://workman-industries.net/images/hexapod/4dof-scad1.png this is what i'm assembling now
01:51 rue_bed 8 special little bolts
01:51 rue_bed oh, you didn't have to make all your pieces
01:52 GargantuaSauce yeah, prefab servo brackets
01:52 GargantuaSauce to cater to my incompetence
01:52 rue_bed I can think of 87 custom mechanical bits... no wait..
01:53 rue_bed I'm at 107 so far,
01:53 rue_bed but then add 8 custom battery packs
01:53 rue_bed 115
01:53 GargantuaSauce how much does it weigh
01:53 rue_bed I really havn't checked latley
01:53 GargantuaSauce this is gonna be like 3-4kg
01:54 rue_bed oh I forgot the overload and driver pcb's
01:54 rue_bed thas ok, the servos can collectivly take that
01:54 GargantuaSauce oh yeah they're stupidly powerful
01:54 GargantuaSauce i held one down and had it push against me
01:54 rue_bed 18 driver pcb's 6 overload pcb's I already incuded the controllers
01:54 GargantuaSauce and it ruined the surface of the table
01:55 rue_bed puts me at 131 not including a hell of a lot of jumper cables
01:55 rue_bed you know how long it takes to hand made 131 peices?
01:56 GargantuaSauce i am well aware this is a multi-year project :V
01:56 rue_bed yea...
01:56 rue_bed I stop for a year or two here and there tho
01:57 GargantuaSauce mine should be walking by monday, assuming i don't have to rethink the power supply
01:57 rue_bed whats the code origin?
01:57 GargantuaSauce my brain
01:57 rue_bed the collective power draw is scarry
01:57 rue_bed 24V, 18A
01:58 rue_bed +computer and controllers
01:58 GargantuaSauce which is peanuts by comparison
01:58 rue_bed call it 450W
01:58 rue_bed hows your power source lookin?
01:59 rue_bed oh you have 4dof
01:59 GargantuaSauce yup
01:59 rue_bed oooo
01:59 GargantuaSauce maximum worst-case theoretical draw for mine would be uh....3*24A at 6V
01:59 rue_bed I just plain avoided redundant joints
01:59 GargantuaSauce i am hoping to get away with 15A@12V into the buck converter for now
01:59 GargantuaSauce we'll see how that goe
02:00 rue_bed indeed
02:01 GargantuaSauce yeah the previous one in the video is 3dof but i am liking the idea of more mobility and a more consistent interface with the ground
02:01 rue_bed I would like disconnectable limbs, they get in the way of me trying to sleep
02:01 GargantuaSauce ie i can keep the foot segment pretty vertical
02:01 rue_bed how are you solving redundant joints?
02:01 rue_bed ah
02:02 rue_bed iirc you code is a lot like mine
02:02 GargantuaSauce for now i am going to just treat it as 3dof with the first three joints behaving exactly as before
02:02 GargantuaSauce with the fourth making the total angle add up to 90 degrees
02:02 GargantuaSauce which will work fine as long a i don't command a rotation of the body
02:03 GargantuaSauce once i iron out the inevitable dozen other mechanical and electrical issues that arise i will revamp the software to do a more canonical 4dof ik with gradient descent
02:04 rue_bed Ihave an opengl interface module for my code, I should finish getting it all going
02:04 rue_bed all I really wanted was to make a nice platform for testing my code on
02:04 GargantuaSauce hehe
02:04 GargantuaSauce funny how that balloons
02:05 rue_bed Multithreading makes code modularization really easy
02:06 rue_bed I have a human input thread, physics model thread, ik thread, and hardware io thread
02:06 GargantuaSauce i am strongly considering using lua so i can have common code running on the embedded target and a simulator
02:06 rue_bed "sorry human, no instantanious velocities"
02:07 rue_bed do you have anything set up for simulating?
02:07 GargantuaSauce well i tested my ik on more of a model than a simulation
02:07 GargantuaSauce ie there was no physical aspect to it
02:08 GargantuaSauce but i certainly plan to
02:08 GargantuaSauce hard to draw a line in the sand though as far as how deeply to simulate things
02:08 GargantuaSauce i keep wanting to go all the way and do finite element analysis of the structure and so on
02:08 rue_bed I made a WORKING BVH library, I need to make a model of the robot for canned motion cycles
02:09 GargantuaSauce i dont want any canned motion, i eventually want the thing to do vision SLAM and place each step in the environment
02:10 rue_bed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6RvF4HUTNs
02:10 rue_bed running the same code as the final machine (with opengl output module)
02:10 GargantuaSauce cool
02:10 GargantuaSauce that doesn't look like a very effective gait though
02:10 rue_bed heh, er yea
02:11 rue_bed didn't put in the gait, it was a test of output communication
02:11 GargantuaSauce buddy used flail
02:11 GargantuaSauce it wasn't very effective
02:11 rue_bed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg7K5X-_r2o
02:12 rue_bed I made a manual control .... waldo, for buddy, did a pushup
02:12 rue_bed I couldn't see when I was doing it, finding the table was harder than I thought i would be
02:13 GargantuaSauce any chance of the switching frequency being out of the audio range?
02:13 rue_bed I was gonna go the other way
02:13 rue_bed adjust them all to form a chord
02:13 GargantuaSauce hah ok that would be acceptable
02:13 GargantuaSauce i just happen to hate eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
02:13 rue_bed make them slightly tunable and be able to play tunes
02:13 rue_bed yea
02:14 rue_bed the servo code isn't gonna be friendly to me wanting to individually tune the pwm freq's
02:14 rue_bed mabe I can set up a simple rif for them to play
02:16 rue_bed it would probably be a good thing to not have 18 servos running at the same pwm freq anyhow, as it could cause brutal power ripple if they all came into time
02:17 rue_bed what I like about it so far is all the leds
02:18 GargantuaSauce well i'd guess ideally they'd be all at the same frequency but basically use time domain multiplexing to ensure the minimum are switched on at the same time
02:18 rue_bed there are power leds on the power converters, one on each micro, there are rx leds on the serial transciever board, and each contoller has 4 bicolour leds for servo status
02:18 GargantuaSauce but that's not exactly easy to synchronize between that many controllers
02:18 rue_bed so it kinda looks like a christmas tree when its on
02:18 GargantuaSauce awesome
02:19 rue_bed do you have plans for yours?
02:20 rue_bed as I was saying mine is just to demonstrate my supperior motion control algs
02:20 rue_bed :)
02:20 GargantuaSauce implementing stupidly complicated navigation
02:20 rue_bed cool
02:23 GargantuaSauce i want it to walk up and down stairs autonomously
02:23 GargantuaSauce just 'cause
02:23 GargantuaSauce that achievement is obviously a few iterations away
02:26 GargantuaSauce doesnt seem too unlikely that i'll end up having to build some pretty fancy electronic
02:40 MrCurious did SNL stop being funny, or did i just get too old to remember how to laugh?
02:41 Faek Bth
02:43 MrCurious GargantuaSauce: what did you use to draw up the red and green checkered drawing of the hex
02:43 GargantuaSauce what's the stupidest answer you can come up with?
02:43 GargantuaSauce it's that
02:44 GargantuaSauce wait do you mean the checkered plane or the whole model
02:45 GargantuaSauce the whole thing is openscad
02:45 GargantuaSauce only cad software i've successfully tolerated
02:46 GargantuaSauce https://bitbucket.org/Ultrasauce/robots/src/e8c28c2442294a68144381716df0b0fe0f86cfc8/scad/hexapod/4hex.scad there's the sauce
02:51 MrCurious ok.i have played with that.
12:40 MrCurious interesting apprach http://vimeo.com/75507483
13:00 GuShH MrCurious: have you ever used the windows live mail client?
13:01 MrCurious whats that
13:01 MrCurious wait
13:01 MrCurious revising answer
13:01 MrCurious no.
13:01 GuShH heh
13:01 GuShH thunderbird?
13:01 MrCurious i haev been a mmac guy for at least 12 years
13:01 GuShH don't tell me you're a web client guy
13:02 MrCurious i dont recal the pain of windows mail
13:02 MrCurious since xp days
13:02 MrCurious gmail works nice from web
13:02 GuShH that's worse.
13:02 MrCurious since ms mail offerings are all sucky
13:02 MrCurious linux has some nice mail clients
13:02 MrCurious take that back
13:02 GuShH they do?
13:02 MrCurious the ubutu one sucks hind teat
13:02 GuShH thunderbird is a horrid piece of crap.
13:03 MrCurious click 2 messages, and it loads for half an huor
13:03 MrCurious osx has a really posh mail app
13:03 GuShH it crashes trying to import anything, it's slow as heck, slow, slow, resource intensive piece of crap.
13:03 MrCurious "it just works"
13:03 GuShH MrCurious: anyhting osx is not applicable for me
13:03 MrCurious perhaps you need a paradyme shift
13:03 MrCurious osx is free
13:03 MrCurious hackintosh time
13:03 GuShH sit on it
13:04 MrCurious go to brazil!
13:04 GuShH I only use osx on a vm, not by choice
13:04 MrCurious on a FRIDAY!
13:04 GuShH too expensive
13:04 GuShH I'd rather buy a chinese motorcycle and crash it than head over to brazil, on a friday.
13:04 MrCurious well windows 8 has a mail app
13:04 GuShH windows 8 is worse than windows ME t
13:04 MrCurious connect it to a windows mail account then you can connect it to gmail
13:04 GuShH to me
13:05 MrCurious 8.1 worse still
13:05 GuShH they tried and they failed
13:05 billmania MrCurious: Were you referring to "mutt"?
13:05 MrCurious nope
13:05 GuShH I don't even understand why it shipped to non touch devices and why they made it the way they made it
13:05 billmania Or only GUI mail clients?
13:05 rue_house after xp microsoft nolonger made a local app that does mail, you have to use their online services, or a mozilla product
13:05 MrCurious well i dont know its name. whatever ubuntu main x gui gives you under the envelope icon on top bar
13:05 GuShH hm?
13:05 GuShH WLM is their current client
13:05 GuShH aside from the office one
13:06 GuShH which is the "full blown" version
13:06 GuShH WLM comes with the live package
13:06 rue_house as I understaood windows live messaging will not connect to pop servers
13:06 MrCurious a good mail program has been a huge challenge in my migration from osx -> win/linux
13:07 GuShH rue_house: are you high sir?
13:07 MrCurious gmail web was good enough i punted and decided to wait for better
13:07 GuShH it's windows live mail
13:07 GuShH it does all that's standard these days
13:07 GuShH it's just not ideal, no client has been for me
13:07 GuShH not on linux not on windows
13:07 rue_house ah, so they combined outlook and a chat client then?
13:07 MrCurious readd on google the windows 8.1 mail app.. connect to msn mail, then you can addd gmail as a secondary imap account
13:08 GuShH MrCurious: I don't like web clients but what I do is I don't let the clients delete the messages from the server, or I use imap... but not anymore
13:08 rue_house I use icedove for mail, works fine
13:08 GuShH rue_house: maybe, I don't use the live features
13:08 GuShH never tried them
13:08 rue_house I have about 15 years of emails in it
13:08 MrCurious thats cool. google never delets anything
13:08 GuShH it's setup as a dumb client to fetch from pop3 and that's all for me
13:08 GuShH rue_house: so I have just as many from outlook express, and when I tried to move to thunderbird it took a massive dump on me
13:08 GuShH it's not made for it
13:08 Tom_itx MrCurious, of course not, they are saving it for our govt spies
13:09 GuShH now I just archive very old mails, take them "out of circulation"
13:09 GuShH also it's not a windows vs linux vs osx issue, I was curious about what everyone used.
13:09 GuShH and for what reason
13:09 MrCurious the easier solution is google took over th govt, and they are serving themselves
13:09 GuShH a better habit is to delete right away what you don't really need...
13:10 rue_house I love the way too many emails would cause outlook express to corrupt its database and lose most of everything for you
13:10 GuShH the question was, when you flag something as spam... does it analyze the keywords and store them or does it use the message it moves onto the "unwanted" folder to compare against new emails (so you must keep the spam?)
13:11 GuShH most of my spam is just stuff I lost interest on
13:11 GuShH or don't really care for anymore, a few sites and services.
13:11 GuShH rue_house: I don't remember loosing much data from outlook express, I always kept backups
13:11 rue_house oh crap
13:12 GuShH But I do remember being annoyed at how long it took to import data and how cumbersome it was to setup your accounts again, which made you just want to start from scratch and keep the old stuff archived
13:12 rue_house my ebay isting screwed up
13:12 GuShH reminds me I gotta add a new listing
13:12 GuShH two products, one with accessories... the other bare, but only one really exists the other I'm still assembling heh, should I still put both up?
13:13 GuShH higher chances of selling at least one of them, specially the bare one due to the lower cost
13:16 MrCurious well. this story may have put me off robotics... http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/11/10/1320256/scientists-invent-urine-powered-robots
13:16 GuShH old news for me
13:16 GuShH MrCurious: look up the ones powered by insects
13:16 GuShH much better IMO
13:16 GuShH it had a bio cell that would digest insects to provide power
13:16 MrCurious thats all we need is robots folowing us around begging for piss
13:17 GuShH we already do, at the ipoint
13:17 GuShH was at this restaurant yesterday having a nice meal outside when 4 clowns from the ipoint came out of a shitty fiat car, all with their blue shirts and nerdy glasses
13:17 GuShH way to ruin my day.
13:21 MrCurious wow phillipines got steamrolled
13:30 GuShH MrCurious: hm?
13:35 GuShH hrmm damn bugs
13:35 GuShH this one doesn't even make sense
13:36 ShH needs another screen or
13:36 rue_house anyone htere a regular ebay lister?
13:45 GuShH rue_house: you"
15:21 zap0 rue_house, maybe
16:50 rue_bed not helping GuShH
17:09 ShH slaps rue_bed a li
18:14 robotustra http://macoshdesign.com/en/theory/articles/anthropometrical
20:54 MrCurious another good productive day :D
21:02 GargantuaSauce damn hex took like 9 hours to assemble
21:03 GargantuaSauce 518 bolts and screws
21:03 GargantuaSauce guess i'll take a couple pics before jamming the electronics in there
21:04 MrCurious the devil is in the detaails
21:04 atom1 i forgot how to launch webpack in linux. any help?
21:05 atom1 ok nevermind
21:14 GargantuaSauce http://workman-industries.net/images/hexapod/4dof-1.jpg
21:19 hankers greetings fellow humanoids
21:19 GargantuaSauce don't you make presumptions about my form
21:28 hankers we're all inclusive here, slime molds are not discriminated
21:50 MrCurious non coporial lifeforms are also welcome here
21:54 Tom_itx just a bunch of deadbeats here
21:55 Tom_itx and a couple contributors
21:55 MrCurious dont we have trolls too?
21:59 Tom_itx not a chance!
22:01 GuShH stupid tie rod remover... this thing is useless
22:01 GuShH might have to remove the lower control arms to use it, assuming it even works
22:04 m_itx gives GuShH a
22:05 MrCurious time to get back to this $50 piece of aluminum. gonna either add value, or erase all trace of value
22:10 GuShH Tom_itx: that'd be for the end, that's off (got the tool, well.. BOTH TOOLS but one is a complete lie)
22:10 GuShH the end is like a morse taper, except not quite a morse taper.
22:12 Tom_itx i've gotten by with a fork and a big hammer
22:12 MrCurious drill and tap, drill and tap, i just love to drill and tap
22:14 Tom_itx a good cnc will do that for ya ya know
22:14 GuShH Tom_itx: the end is OUT the problem is getting the inner out
22:14 GuShH no clearance for any force tool + the adapter I got
22:15 GuShH this is what I need but it doesn't exist here http://www.ebay.com/itm/INNER-TIE-ROD-Removal-Installation-Tool-Set-Mechanics-Kit-Dual-Tie-Rod-Tools-/231072688471
22:15 GuShH that one you just slide into the tie rod and torque it out
22:16 GuShH I'm never buying a VW after all the trouble I've been through with this car (not mine)
22:17 GuShH this is similar to what I've got http://www.ebay.com/itm/Inner-Tie-Rod-Removal-Tool-CAL946-BRAND-NEW-/181125296037 except mine has a pivoting arm (works like a camlock)
22:18 GuShH it's complete and useless shit, with the extension bar and the 90° turn plus the play on the adapter I loose all the torque
22:22 GargantuaSauce http://workman-industries.net/images/hexapod/4dof-sim1.png
22:39 hankers why so many legs and DOF?
22:39 hankers why not more?
22:40 MrCurious its a function of wallet size
22:46 GargantuaSauce i considered 4 legs but don't want to tackle dynamic locomotion just yet
22:46 GargantuaSauce and 8 is a bit redundant
22:48 hankers 6 does have some nice properties for static stability as well as omnidirectional locomotion
22:48 GargantuaSauce yeah
22:48 hankers do you know what you're going to do with 4 DOF on each leg?
22:48 GargantuaSauce yes, gradient descent ik
22:49 hankers sounds like fun
22:49 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: got link for reading about that? I'm starting to get interested in specifics of IK
22:49 GargantuaSauce currently it's got an analytical solution designed for 3dof, with the last joint simply depending on the other two to make the foot vertical
22:49 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj9gFFyR3-Y this is the previous iteration
22:50 GargantuaSauce Triffid_Hunter: no not really, wikipedia's articles on the subject are pretty comprehensive though
22:50 GargantuaSauce but pretty theoretical/mathy
22:50 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: comprehensive as in chock full of gibberish mathematical symbols, or actually have useful explanation?
22:50 hankers there is no single IK solution.... it is largely an art
22:50 GargantuaSauce the former
22:51 hankers you select a method based on your application
22:51 rue_house I cant find much applyable information in almost ANY of the wikipedia articles
22:51 rue_house even for things I know
22:51 GargantuaSauce i've done some statistical ML implementations so i've gotten reasonably good at deciphering the runes i guess
22:52 GargantuaSauce and physics simulations
22:52 hankers I'm sure ROS has some implementations in it
22:52 GargantuaSauce figuring out how to discretize the curl operator was a bit of a challenge
22:58 hankers yikes, i don't think i've used that before
22:58 GargantuaSauce http://www.lynxmotion.net/viewtopic.php?t=4397 havent looked at this source (and ugh vb) but i've seen videos of it in action and it seems to do a pretty good job
22:58 hankers no, i have, just long ago
22:59 GargantuaSauce oh god ok don't peruse that source if you value your sanity
23:01 GargantuaSauce anyway Triffid_Hunter if the kinematic chain is simple enough you don't need to do anything fancy at all
23:02 GargantuaSauce (which sounds obvious but i think it can even apply up to certain 4dof configurations)
23:02 GargantuaSauce and an analytic solution has the advantage of provable continuousness and solveability
23:07 rue_house my ik library has two functions
23:09 rue_house I'd love to tell you more but apparently the terminal infront of me isn't for this computer...
23:09 GargantuaSauce you have the source up dont you
23:09 rue_house I have no idea
23:09 rue_house its in a colder called ik, isn't that handy
23:10 rue_house dist dist3d(dist p1x, dist p1y, dist p1z, dist p2x, dist p2y, dist p2z);
23:10 rue_house angle elbow(dist C, dist A, dist B); // returns angle c
23:10 rue_house angle dir(dist x, dist y);
23:10 rue_house I lied, its 3 functions
23:10 GargantuaSauce http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/buddy_III/ik/ikLib.c
23:10 GargantuaSauce yeah pretty much identical to my 3dof solution
23:11 rue_house :)
23:11 GargantuaSauce explicit solutions are so nice
23:12 rue_house oh I have the 2d library to for fk
23:12 GargantuaSauce the idea of an iterative solver controlling actuators strong enough to probably break a finger still kind of scares me at this point
23:15 rue_house I recon I need to re-work out all the distances for buddy3
23:17 rue_house are you running liinux?
23:17 rue_house maybe it would compile anyhow...
23:17 GargantuaSauce actually i guess it is different from mine, thought there was an identity linking them but there isnt
23:17 GargantuaSauce same general idea anyway
23:17 rue_house are you running linux?
23:17 GargantuaSauce yes
23:18 rue_house can you recieve dcc files?
23:18 GargantuaSauce i honestly have no idea
23:18 GargantuaSauce havent tried with this client
23:19 rue_house sounds like a no
23:19 GargantuaSauce looks like no
23:19 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/buddy_III/ik/
23:19 rue_house its the whole things!
23:20 rue_house its a program that will realtime ik to your mouse position
23:20 rue_house in an SDL window
23:21 rue_house grr, I cant find ...
23:21 GargantuaSauce mine is a bit fancier
23:21 GargantuaSauce gonna commit it with 4dof additions
23:21 rue_house its just a math test set
23:21 GargantuaSauce do you happen to have two joysticks? <_<
23:21 rue_house I have exaclty none
23:22 rue_house I cant find my full up leg controller
23:22 GargantuaSauce will hardcode some numbers then
23:24 rue_house hmm I see footout.dat...
23:25 rue_house aha
23:26 GargantuaSauce do you have drivers that support gl 3.0?
23:26 rue_house dunno
23:26 rue_house lets try
23:27 MrCurious OMG, gantry is heavy
23:28 GargantuaSauce https://bitbucket.org/Ultrasauce/robots
23:29 GargantuaSauce cd pc/sim_old && make && bin/stimulator
23:31 rue_house 32MB?
23:32 GargantuaSauce oh theres some random art in there
23:32 GargantuaSauce this is a fork of some shitty game engine code i was working on
23:33 rue_house ouch 52k/sec
23:33 rue_house so is it related to the robot atall anymore/
23:33 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: heh, it goes to full extension if you make the arms different lengths and try to go to the dead zone in the center
23:33 rue_house :)
23:34 rue_house robots should not try to grab their brain
23:34 GargantuaSauce mine doesnt handle no-solution inputs or singularities properly yet
23:35 GargantuaSauce and yes it's more robot-related than not, there's some vestigial/overkill graphics stuff in there though
23:35 rue_house Triffid_Hunter, I dont hear alot from you anymore, whats up?
23:36 rue_house this is a test
23:36 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: workshop is in storage while we try to sort housing situation
23:36 rue_house this is a test of a new keybaord
23:36 rue_house I dont think I like this keybaord
23:36 rue_house ... moving again? or just you too?
23:36 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: seems like it has the a and o swapped :P
23:37 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: thinking of going to victoria.. we were trying to be in this area for family, but family is apparently useless
23:37 rue_house its a deep dell keyboard that dosn't have a nice buckle force
23:38 rue_house but it as working stand legs and a full size shift key
23:38 rue_house I'll try it for a while
23:38 rue_house I think I need a buckle keyboard
23:38 rue_house I think I ahve one
23:38 rue_house somewhere
23:58 rue_house cool, the C version I made of the origional basic program outputs valid looking data