#robotics Logs
Nov 07 2013
#robotics Calendar
00:02 GargantuaSauce bender is the best robot
00:02 anonnumberanon cartoons?
00:03 GargantuaSauce r2-d2, if you INSIST on live-action
00:06 anonnumberanon Why aren't Europeans making any good ones? Or are they?
00:09 GargantuaSauce what are they even gonna make them for
00:09 GargantuaSauce the japanese are all getting old and need robots to replace their ungrateful grandchildren
00:09 GargantuaSauce the americans need to wreck shit as always
00:10 GargantuaSauce what are europeans going to use robots for??
00:14 anonnumberanon for their mission to Europa/Titan, for a start
00:14 GargantuaSauce hah space exploration
00:14 GargantuaSauce sorry we don't need to prove we can drop nukes on the reds anymore
00:14 GargantuaSauce nobody gives a shit
00:15 anonnumberanon So what's the emerging market outside Japan and the army?
00:16 GuShH wait, why would anyone want to nuke flyback's toilet?
00:16 GargantuaSauce the small slice of manufacturing for which flesh-robots in developing nations aren't cost effective
00:18 anonnumberanon how far away until fire-fighting robots?
00:25 GargantuaSauce well required for that would be (reliable) locomotion and navigation in a dangerous and limited-visibility environment, and some degree of autonomous assessment of risk and structural damage and so on
00:25 GargantuaSauce so uh
00:25 GargantuaSauce awhile
00:27 GargantuaSauce unless you are referring to something along the lines of an RC car with a camera and water gun on it, in which case i'm sure those are in use now
00:30 anonnumberanon I want to make robots, what classes should I take in college? I am done with math for engineering and am taking my electrical engineering classes right now.
00:31 GargantuaSauce well robotics is pretty ridiculously interdisciplinary
00:31 anonnumberanon I get to take 2 chosen by me classes and 2 semesters of senior design which I could use entirely to make robots.
00:31 GargantuaSauce have you done any software stuff at all
00:31 anonnumberanon I'm learning Java.
00:32 anonnumberanon Doing recursion and file input/output at the moment.
00:32 GargantuaSauce you'll want to learn c and familiarize yourself with one or more embedded platforms
00:32 GargantuaSauce that might be best approached as an extracorricular thing
00:33 GargantuaSauce my own background is computer science so i am naturally going to suggest that you enter that domain a bit if possible
00:33 GargantuaSauce data structures and algorithms, theory of computing, AI/machine learning
00:34 GargantuaSauce cant fit that into two slots though obviously
00:34 GargantuaSauce so maybe just take some computer engineering stuff
00:35 anonnumberanon Thanks for this insight.
00:35 GargantuaSauce i assume your EE stuff will include control theory
00:35 anonnumberanon I'm taking that now.
00:36 GargantuaSauce which is super useful, especially when you bring embedded software into the equation
00:36 anonnumberanon Embedded systems platforms would be microprocessors and how to use them?
00:37 anonnumberanon microcontrollers
00:37 GargantuaSauce yeah
00:37 anonnumberanon i mean
00:38 anonnumberanon That's neat I'm taking a bunch of these classes later.
00:39 GargantuaSauce i'd also recommend taking a computer graphics course if possible
00:42 anonnumberanon Is that for when y0ou want to make robots recognize the environment?
00:43 GargantuaSauce well computer vision and computer graphics are closely related in that they're basically the opposites of each other
00:43 anonnumberanon I have seen Big Dog make a real time 3D map of what it is looking at, and its path while trecking.
00:43 anonnumberanon Waw.
00:45 GargantuaSauce for me at least, doing graphics stuff breathed new life into all the math i already knew
00:45 GargantuaSauce it is one thing to understand linear algebraic operators and techniques and transformations on paper
00:46 GargantuaSauce but when i can actually SEE their action it really helped move stuff along in my head
00:46 anonnumberanon This is what I have been thinking.
00:46 GargantuaSauce also things like kinematic chains in robotics are very closely related to scene graphs
00:46 anonnumberanon Omg this will be fun.
00:46 GargantuaSauce hierarchical transformations
00:47 GargantuaSauce where are you studying?
00:47 anonnumberanon In America but I can stay or go back to France after graduation.
00:52 GargantuaSauce also i have to say you're definitely not "done with math"
00:54 anonnumberanon Go on :)
00:54 GargantuaSauce i know there are some areas of the field that are not particularly relevant to robotics but there are staggeringly, ridiculously wide swaths of mathematics that are applicable
00:56 GargantuaSauce and I'd say the areas you'd want to focus on depend on where you want to specialize in the field but I am currently struggling with the idea of specialization
00:57 GargantuaSauce because robotics is an applied interdisciplinary field
01:01 anonnumberanon The way as see it and according to Arnold Bennett's "How to live on 24 Hours a Day", I imagine one should work about 7-8 hours a day doing specialized work in one's field of study, and spend the same amount of time after work on one ore more hobbies that would be closely related to the first field.
01:01 anonnumberanon That model gives at least three specializations possible.
01:03 GargantuaSauce sounds like you've got about the right mindset :V
01:08 GargantuaSauce anyway to step back a little, if you want to make robots the best way to learn is to make robots
01:08 GargantuaSauce and there's no time like the present :)
01:09 defaultro what would be the voltage when you add 200 ohms on a 12v ps
01:09 defaultro is it still going to be 12v?
01:10 anonnumberanon yes
01:11 anonnumberanon I'm learning slowly about Arduino. I dismantled two fairly new junk printers and aquired a few parts so far. Next step is probably to find information on what I got (a few large servos and medium servos, a lot of capacitors and components), but it's all new to me.
01:11 GargantuaSauce i would suggest avoiding arduino entirely
01:12 anonnumberanon Ok, well we're just playing around with them in IEEE once a week.
01:12 GargantuaSauce better would be to program an avr microcontroller directly
01:12 anonnumberanon avr?
01:12 GargantuaSauce the microcontroller that the arduino enshrouds in nonsense
01:13 anonnumberanon defaultro, depending on the rating of your resistance, you might burn it.
01:13 defaultro you mean, i might burn the resistor?
01:13 anonnumberanon yeah
01:13 defaultro k
01:13 GargantuaSauce defaultro have you read either of those books yet
01:14 defaultro anonnumberanon: no, I have been out and so busy. I read just a little
01:14 defaultro oops, that was for GargantuaSauce
01:14 GargantuaSauce well you should!
01:14 defaultro it's still open
01:14 defaultro it's because I am trying to understand this schematic, http://elabz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bipolar_stepper_with_ULN2803.png
01:15 defaultro i was just wondering why he used 22ohms on R1 .. R4
01:15 defaultro but i remember he was saying it got hot
01:16 defaultro it's because I remember i have a uln2003 here and I would like to try to drive my new bipolar motor
01:16 defaultro uln2003 can take upto 50v
01:16 GargantuaSauce that is a pretty dumb way to drive a bipolar stepper
01:16 defaultro 500mA
01:16 defaultro ok
01:16 defaultro just wanted to see if my new bipolar will work
01:17 anonnumberanon GargantuaSauce, how bad is the Arduino microcontroller?
01:17 GargantuaSauce the microcontroller is fine (though antiquated and overpriced), the problem with arduino is the software really
01:18 GargantuaSauce and the documentation and community
01:18 defaultro what is wrong with the software?
01:18 defaultro GargantuaSauce: what's very bad about the diagram i posted?
01:19 GargantuaSauce there's a pervasive attempt at pretending it's much less complicated than it is and it leads people to think that it's a good idea to copypaste code and wire stuff without understanding what's going on
01:20 GargantuaSauce defaultro: the way bipolar steppers should be driven is by providing a low impedance path to +v to one side, and ground to the other
01:20 defaultro k
01:20 GargantuaSauce which requires what's called high-side switching
01:21 GargantuaSauce instead that design uses four low-side switches and supplies +v through those resistors
01:21 GargantuaSauce it's "cheating" and wastes loads of energy in the resistors which then must be dissipated as heat
01:21 defaultro are you saying one of the coil should be on v+ and other is on neg
01:22 GargantuaSauce yes, which is not possible using one of those darlington arrays
01:22 defaultro if uses the proper h-bridge
01:22 defaultro if using the proper h-bridge
01:22 GargantuaSauce yes a pair of h-bridges is the canonical way to drive a bipolar stepper
01:22 defaultro ok
01:23 defaultro I always forget. I saw the ic again today, I think it's A4892 or A382, I am not sure. It can be driven at 5-35v 2A max
01:24 GargantuaSauce i think the one we settled on recommending was the DRV8825
01:24 defaultro ok
01:24 defaultro maybe it was Triffid who told me about the A chip
01:24 defaultro let me check 8825
01:24 MrCurious comodity uC's rule
01:26 GargantuaSauce commodity implies it's reasonably priced compared to the alternatives
01:26 GargantuaSauce which is false
01:26 anonnumberanon it's $12 though
01:27 defaultro i think this is the one? http://www.pololu.com/product/2133/
01:27 GargantuaSauce yeah
01:27 GargantuaSauce get a couple of those
01:28 defaultro GargantuaSauce: I want a little higher than that so that if I need to upgrade my motor, it should still be sufficient
01:28 defaultro what do you think/
01:28 defaultro ?
01:28 defaultro they're kinda expensive
01:28 GargantuaSauce if you want more current you'll need a more complex solution
01:28 GargantuaSauce one that is definitely not up your alley at this point
01:29 GargantuaSauce go for those modules
01:29 defaultro ok
01:29 defaultro so that polulu can be considered a high current driver?
01:29 GargantuaSauce well it's all relative
01:30 defaultro watching this now, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGd2ulVkDTM
01:33 defaultro amazing, it made the motor quieter
01:34 defaultro so question now is, would my code on Arduino still be the same?
01:35 defaultro and do I only need 1 to drive a single bipolar motor?
01:35 GargantuaSauce yes you only need one per motor
01:35 GargantuaSauce and the code would have to change
01:35 defaultro oh ok
01:35 GargantuaSauce look at the documentation to see how it's controlled. it's quite simple
01:35 defaultro ok
01:36 GargantuaSauce i just say get a couple because it's not inconceivable that you'll fry one :V
01:37 defaultro k
01:42 GargantuaSauce anyway anonnumberanon what I use and recommend for an mcu platform is http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F4DISCOVERY/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMutVogd4PRSvEN8XDBeCtgD
01:42 GargantuaSauce but my strongest recommendation is just to stay away from the arduino software stack
01:42 GargantuaSauce bare AVRs are very easy to work with
01:43 MrCurious assuming you have tiem to fall down the rabit hole of no comparable librarie
01:43 MrCurious s
01:43 anonnumberanon bookmarked
01:44 anonnumberanon I wanted to start with assembly and very low level hardware and work my way up.
01:44 anonnumberanon I don't know how that translates in the hardware world.
01:44 GargantuaSauce an avr on a breadboard
01:45 GargantuaSauce well and that's how i still program the f4 (c not asm though)
01:45 anonnumberanon Yeah, I'll start with that I guess. First following the book Make: Electronics, but I haven't started yet, class is taking a lot of my time right now.
01:46 GargantuaSauce that is how i made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj9gFFyR3-Y no libraries, just poking peripheral control registers in c
01:47 defaultro that's a cool pcb. What can I do with that board GargantuaSauce ?
01:48 GargantuaSauce well it houses what i believe is the most powerful microcontroller on the market
01:48 GargantuaSauce so it has the grunt to carry out computationally expensive things
01:49 defaultro can I do the same thing with that board? I mean the project I was doing?
01:50 anonnumberanon nice channel
01:50 GargantuaSauce well it'd be overkill for that, but yes it'd do it fine
01:52 defaultro looks like using that board, I will really learn electronics
01:52 defaultro and am I right that coding will be in Assembly language?
01:53 GargantuaSauce the electronics theory you are lacking is irrespective of any choice of microcontroller architecture
01:53 defaultro ok
01:54 GargantuaSauce and I program it using C, there is a tiny bit of asm at the boot vector to prepare the system at the start though
01:55 defaultro very cool
01:55 defaultro how do you upload the code to it?
01:56 defaultro is there a special software like the Arduino IDE?
01:56 GargantuaSauce the board has a second microcontroller on it that acts as a programmer, with a usb interface
01:56 defaultro got it
01:57 GargantuaSauce there are a few options for software. i use command line tools
01:57 anonnumberanon free software right?
01:57 GargantuaSauce ya
02:10 GargantuaSauce http://workman-industries.net/images/f4_mb.jpg there's a pretty useless example of something that take advantage of the f4's clock speed and fpu
02:10 GargantuaSauce such a thing would be absurdly, painfully slow on an 8-bit avr but runs at a few frames per second here
02:12 GargantuaSauce and that's with a bit-banged interface to the lcd, not even taking advantage of the hardware peripheral that could interface with it properly and use DMA to transfer the image
02:27 rue_house arg, I ahve to do an upgrade that I dont want to
02:27 GargantuaSauce bringing your hexapod past 1985? :V
02:28 rue_house your just jellous of my brazed steel frame :P
02:29 GargantuaSauce and real servos
02:29 rue_house my servos are 40x better than manufactured ones
02:30 GargantuaSauce well at least hobby ones
02:30 rue_house well yea....
02:31 rue_house only 1/100 as good as real industrial ones
02:31 GargantuaSauce well i imagine the higher-end dynamixel ones take the cake too
02:32 GargantuaSauce anyway what do you have to upgrade
02:32 rue_house libc6
02:32 rue_house its done tho
02:32 rue_house I still have a problem
02:34 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLktpkd7ojA
02:34 GargantuaSauce apparently stabbing is a sub-optimal trajectory
03:08 anonnumberanon Yeah that learning robot it magic.
09:07 GargantuaSauce fastenal had NO M3 NUTS
09:07 GargantuaSauce no washers either
09:07 GargantuaSauce total bullshit
10:30 rue_house how many you want, I can do a privite ebay listing
10:31 rue_house in 2-3 weeks you'll have them!
10:31 GargantuaSauce think i have enough for now, just wanted to stock up while i was there for 8mm ones anyway
10:31 GargantuaSauce 8mm bolts i mean
10:32 rue_house 8mm or m3?
10:32 GargantuaSauce 8mm m3
10:32 rue_house m3 is not 8mm
10:32 rue_house do you mean 3mm pitch?
10:33 GargantuaSauce 8mm in length
10:33 rue_house thats not a nut
10:33 rue_house GargantuaSauce> fastenal had NO M3 NUTS
10:33 GargantuaSauce you're a nut
10:33 rue_house would you make up your mind?
10:33 rue_house you caps'd it, it cant be wrong
10:33 GargantuaSauce i refuse
10:34 rue_house I'm not good at making minds, so dont get me to do it
18:38 ShH pokes the
18:38 e_house hides behind somet
18:38 ShH pokes somet
18:39 GuShH I couldn't source the odd sized tap...
18:39 GuShH (1/2" by 26tpi)
18:39 e_house chants "dont have to outrun the bear, just have to outrun g
18:40 GuShH I find it odd these aluminum suppliers won't even send me a quote, I asked if they had the proper software to calculate the cuts by weight and they said "no, we do it the old fashioned way" ... so maybe they're just lazy
18:40 theBear lol
18:40 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1-2-26-4-Flute-Bottom-HSS-N-A-Fine-Threads-Tap-/121025069279
18:40 GuShH sent them my own numbers to see if they were OK, I got a partial answer -- you know when you ask two questions and they only answer one.... it's very, very annoying.
18:41 GuShH the other guys I called on the phone told me a couple prices and by the third cut they asked me "why don't you send us an email?" I DID ALREADY "oh, send it again" so I did, no answer.
18:41 rue_house I hate that
18:41 rue_house flood them
18:41 GuShH If I call again, I'll be very annoyed at them.
18:41 rue_house cmon, your a techie
18:41 rue_house send them 300 of the same small email
18:41 rue_house command line rocks
18:41 GuShH lol
18:42 rue_house hah $52 and ITS THE CHEAPEST ONE
18:42 GuShH emailed about 30 suppliers (bah, resellers) ... only two answered by mail
18:42 GuShH phone doesn't work for price lists, stock lists, etc.
18:42 GuShH rue_house: I spent about that much for an M18x2mm tap yesterday
18:43 GuShH HSS
18:43 GuShH NOS though, the box looked like it went through a couple wars
18:43 GuShH 1/2-26 I can only find used ones, I'm not wasting my money and time on that.
18:43 GuShH New so far nobody carries them locally
18:44 GuShH hey at least the one on your ebay auction is waxed
18:44 rue_house I bet a good used one is way better than a new heap one
18:44 rue_house cheap
18:44 GuShH for me 50 bucks for a single tap isn't cheap, I know there are better
18:44 GuShH but for alu it's plenty good
18:44 GuShH I had the option to buy a better one, or an even better one! but they were 70 and 100 bucks each
18:44 GuShH this one is mid range, good 'nuf
18:45 GuShH The worst part is when you have to argue with a clerk (they are often sure whatever it is you want DOES NOT EXIST AND YOU ARE WRONG)
18:45 GuShH it gets worse when they want to know what it's for
18:45 rue_house wow 26 is an odd one
18:46 GuShH it is, and it may not be 1/2 in reality but one size lower, which is even harder to find (they do exist)
18:46 theBear nah, you just gotta learn to enjoy 'abusing' the clerk.... it's like me and sales reps for ANYTHING with a technical factor of ANY kind... i tear those poor bastards to pieces, usually not even on purpose, just that you know, being a tech and talking to a rep who comes to visit, it's kinda my responsibility to understand things before i recommend or not for my employer to buy the thing
18:47 rue_house its imperial?
18:47 GuShH DAMN BRITS
18:47 rue_house your sure its 26 tpi?
18:47 GuShH yeah but my gage doesn't have 26
18:47 rue_house GuShH, pls flood them with 300 emails
18:47 theBear first commercial led-powered lighting fixtures (not little chinese crap, like 300w $30,000 single robot lights) the poor bastard had nothing
18:47 rue_house GuShH, easy, its metric!
18:47 GuShH none of my metric gages match, someone mentioned it could be 1mm ... it's not
18:48 theBear gauges you foreigner ! err, i think
18:48 GuShH first 3 teeth match at 1mm (spacing wise) the rest are off
18:48 GuShH theBear: I dunno...
18:48 GuShH thread gauge? gage?
18:48 theBear yeah, my one, i don't think yours is valid even in stupid-s.a.
18:49 GuShH the auctions say gage and gauge
18:49 GuShH like these http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Horex-Germany-Metric-and-Whitworth-Screw-Thread-Pitch-Gauge-/301009166928?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46158b6250&_uhb=1
18:49 GuShH I need to get a better set... the ones I have are not complete
18:49 theBear heh, hor-ex
18:49 rue_house have some digital calipers you can tell me what 10 threads are?
18:49 GuShH I can't believe whithworth is still used
18:50 GuShH oh look they didn't have an "o" they used 0 lol
18:50 rue_house GuShH, so are gas engines!
18:50 GuShH I'll tell ya in a sec... it's quite a fine pitch and I hate counting threads!
18:55 GuShH and a sec turned into 10 minutes!
18:56 GuShH 13 threads in half an inch
18:56 GuShH although I could swear it is 13.5
18:56 GuShH so it is 26 "or so"
18:57 GuShH since the 1mm gauge just doesn't match at all, the odd part is that the threads aren't fully cut, they almost seem to be ACME
18:57 rue_house ok, thats like saying that the answer of 2+2 is between 3 and 5 inclusive
18:58 GuShH rue_house: because I took a couple pictures and counted on the screen, on one I can say it's 13, on the other it seems 13.5 but it might be the perspective
18:59 rue_house calipers dude!
19:00 GuShH it's a small thread, dude.
19:00 GuShH it's 26 anyway.
19:00 GuShH but since it looks square I can't guarantee it was properly cut, and the manufacturer has not answered my emails either
19:01 GuShH WHATS GOING ON WITH PEOPLE
19:01 rue_house flood them with 300 emails, you will become a priority
19:01 GuShH I even mix it up using different email addresses
19:01 GuShH rue_house: flood everyone you say?
19:01 rue_house esp if te emails say you will email them again tommorow if they dont get it
19:01 rue_house hell yea!
19:01 rue_house you ahve the power of linux command line! use it!
19:01 ShH takes note: do not annoy the rue, flood will ha
19:01 goRed n
19:01 DagoRed *nods
19:02 rue_house if everyone had that ability it would be a problem, but everyone dosn't
19:02 DagoRed GuShH: There are some really simple python scripts that make spam bots really easy. Not that it's much harder in other languages.
19:02 rue_house YOU have the ability to be a real pain in th ass, and you should use it when you need to
19:02 GuShH excuse the poor quality and ugly background http://gushh.net/tmp/dscn4421f.jpg the caliper is locked at 0.4995"
19:02 rue_house (so do I)
19:03 GuShH DagoRed: I used to spam for a living at one point, to sell some surplus stock I had at home
19:03 rue_house it would help if it was perpendicular to it, but looks like 13
19:03 DagoRed Evil bastard.
19:03 GuShH Got a couple complaints from the ISP which at the time was quite the accomplishment.
19:03 GuShH It wasn't viagra or any of that crap nobody needs
19:04 rue_house that reminds me, I have a $300 coupler to list on ebay for $20
19:04 GuShH rue_house: I took other shots, only one looked like 13.5
19:04 rue_house hold it up to the damn thing...
19:04 GuShH but you can see it's an odd thread, it's square looking
19:04 rue_house looks like 13 to me
19:04 GuShH no, this way the jaw locks onto the edge
19:04 rue_house whats it on?
19:05 GuShH a pipe.
19:05 GuShH an oily dirty one at that.
19:05 DagoRed GuShH: That looks mighty tiny
19:05 rue_house oh, thats pipe thread?, its not tapered
19:06 rue_house where is my thread chart...
19:06 GuShH DagoRed: it's a half inch, I'm sure flyback has heard that line a few times before
19:06 DagoRed lol
19:06 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/mech/tapchart1.jpg
19:07 ShH slides a fresnel lens on top of the sc
19:07 ShH watches as the sun burns a hole throug
19:07 rue_house You have: .038462inch
19:07 rue_house You want: mm
19:07 rue_house * 0.9769348
19:07 rue_house / 1.0236098
19:07 DagoRed .ud flyback 1
19:07 makepi DagoRed: making death threats on Efnet since 1997 - Entry 1/4.
19:07 GuShH haha
19:07 DagoRed .ud flyback
19:07 makepi DagoRed: someone who enjoys saying "canuck" every 1.2 seconds. - Entry 0/4.
19:08 DagoRed GuShH: That guy?
19:08 GuShH yes.
19:08 rue_house one of the leading internet trolls, if he's still alive
19:08 DagoRed rue_house: I'll add you to the admins so you can send the bot away anytime.
19:08 GuShH these are not the 'roids you're looking for!
19:08 rue_house I'm not worried about it
19:08 GuShH rue_house: at 1mm we only get a few threads to match
19:09 rue_house yea, .02 isn't close enough
19:09 GuShH pout pout sad face pout
19:09 GuShH oh I had to give away one of the kittens today... that was a sad moment
19:09 GuShH but now a hawt blond chick has the kitteh, that's one lucky kitteh I'd say.
19:10 ShH wishes he was a lucky ki
19:10 rue_house nothings made in 26 thre...
19:10 GuShH they chose this size on purpose, I bet
19:10 GuShH or it's whatever size they had setup on their old lathe!
19:11 GuShH can't be arsed with gears, cut it at whatever it's set at!
19:11 rue_house I dont even know if my lathe does 26
19:11 GuShH I can make my own tap, but I only have mild steel to work with... even tempered and cutting T6 alu it won't last long
19:11 GuShH it should
19:12 GuShH you can cut a lot more threads than the chart shows though
19:12 rue_house p1040779.jpg
19:12 GuShH do you have to flip the big gears on yours to go from metric to imperial?
19:12 GuShH 120 and 127 teeth set I think
19:12 DagoRed .weather 18018
19:12 makepi DagoRed: Bethlehem, PA: Overcast, 45.7 F (7.6 C), 29.97(+), Feels Like: 46 F (8 C), Humidity: 67%, From the East at 1.6 MPH Gusting to 5.4 MPH - Last Updated on November 7, 7:57 PM EST http://goo.gl/bAOEM
19:12 GuShH changes the entire ratio
19:13 GuShH I missed that when I first tried to cut 19tpi
19:13 rue_house yea, I have one sleep that does 26
19:13 GuShH also I don't think you can use the dial / half-nut in that case
19:13 rue_house yea I have to regear it to change thread
19:13 GuShH I cut the 19tpi manually, pretty annoying.. I didn't even try the dial.
19:14 GuShH Also I noticed there's another dial gear included
19:14 GuShH with a different amount of teeth, a second chart tells you it's for another range of threads (I think)
19:14 GuShH hard to count them, it's not stamped anywhere
19:14 rue_house I have 2x 3 gear shifts in it, so its not terrible
19:14 GuShH on the thread indicator I mean
19:14 rue_house but as of yet no 2 consecutive threads I'v done needed the same gears
19:15 GuShH which I always have disingaged anyway unless I'm cutting a thread
19:15 GuShH wish mine had power feed on both axis
19:15 GuShH those lathes tend to be way bulkier
19:15 ShH s
19:16 DagoRed \
19:17 GuShH ok position 8 on the quick change gearbox gives you 26tpi if both A and B are 30
19:17 GuShH position 3 gives you the 19tpi I was using the other day
19:17 GuShH no other changes
19:17 GuShH but flipping those big gears to go back to metric is highly annoying
19:18 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/mech/threading.jpg <-- blow up of that image
19:19 GuShH yeah the bigger model with both power feeds and proper clutch had a full norton gearbox, but it was twice as much and twice as big
19:19 GuShH does yours leak oil?
19:21 rue_house helll no
19:21 GuShH that's all I kept reading about your model
19:22 rue_house hah
19:22 GuShH and how sand kept floating on the oil :/
19:22 rue_house I take it out of drive when I'm not running the feed
19:22 rue_house I changed the oil too
19:22 GuShH yeah but that's good practice with any manual lathe
19:22 rue_house I noticed they painted over lots of junk from the casting
19:22 GuShH do not engage unless you are going to use it
19:22 GuShH yeah
19:22 rue_house there are lots of areas where casting or grinding waste is painted over
19:23 GuShH like I said, when I get the space I'll get a big used lathe in good condition, if I can find one.
19:23 rue_house I hate that there isnsn't a seperate machine and threading feed
19:23 rue_house but thems the breaks
19:25 rue_house if I want it I have to build it in
19:25 rue_house like a reverse for the threading
19:25 rue_house I'm gonna want to do left hand thread at some point
19:26 rue_house I preffer doing finishing cuts left
19:26 rue_house on machine feed
19:27 GuShH rue_house: I've been wanting to thread chuck to tailstock but there's no way without mounting the tool on the other side or perhaps reversing the tool so it cuts underneath
19:28 rue_house hu?
19:28 rue_house mine is threaded on and sinched with 2 clamps
19:28 GuShH huh?
19:28 GuShH I'm talking about threading operations
19:28 GuShH normally you feed from the tailstock to the headstock (risking a crash)
19:28 rue_house oh tailsotck
19:28 rue_house sorry
19:29 GuShH if you invert the tool and run the lathe on reverse, you can thread from headstock to tailstock -- but I haven't tried that
19:29 rue_house yea, threading to the right
19:29 GuShH otherwise the toolpost would have to be mounted on the other size
19:29 rue_house uhg, rue sleep now
19:29 ShH hibernates the
20:10 DagoRed Man.... I can't believe I finally work for a robotics company.
20:10 goRed loving his
20:11 robotustra DagoRed: what do you do?
20:11 robotustra what kind of robots
20:15 DagoRed flying kind, and bomb disposal robots
20:20 DagoRed robotustra: does that answer you question enough?
20:43 DagoRed Crap, I want a new rss feed to add to my bot or some new API to play with.
21:26 rue_house haha I been working for like 2 days now on my sound card configuration
21:27 GargantuaSauce it's great when alsa Just Works
21:27 GargantuaSauce because when it doesn't it's a huge pain in the ass
21:28 rue_bed I have a pile of legacy configs on my system
21:28 GargantuaSauce and if you bring pulse or oss into the equation you may as well rip the sound card out and throw it out the window
21:28 GargantuaSauce because it's gonna be useless
21:28 rue_bed I think everything is now migrated from oss
21:28 rue_bed I reject pulse and whatever it stands for
21:29 rue_bed because I see it as a pointless abstraction layer
21:29 rue_bed but I can see its getting harder to avoid
21:30 rue_bed DagoRed, what video system do you use and how much latency is there?
21:30 rue_bed I need an inversion table
21:30 rue_bed just directly drain out the snot
21:37 Tom_itx rue_bed what are you working on?
21:37 Tom_itx i saw the code but wasn't sure what to do with it
21:39 DagoRed rue_bed: undefined yet but we're working on "0 latency"
21:39 GargantuaSauce well let us know when you violate general relativity
21:39 DagoRed And spending big money to do it....
21:41 defaultro GargantuaSauce: ordered the drv8825
21:42 GargantuaSauce cool
21:42 defaultro how will I measure the current? My motor is 0.4A. Do I need to adjust the DRV8825?
21:42 GargantuaSauce yes there's a pot on the board
21:42 defaultro yup, there's a pot for the adjustment but wanted to know how I will know the value
21:42 GargantuaSauce adjust while testing it at the maximum inclination
21:43 GargantuaSauce turn it just high enough so that it works
21:43 defaultro shouldn't I use my multimeter?
21:43 defaultro is it the drv8825 that will give current to the motor?
21:43 robotustra did who ever use DC powermeters?
21:44 robotustra do they have SPI or I2C interfaces?
21:44 defaultro or is the current limiter just to protect drv8825?
21:45 GargantuaSauce well it's both for the motor and the driver
21:45 GargantuaSauce just start at 20% or something and adjust up until it works
21:46 robotustra until it works and still cold
21:46 GargantuaSauce ya
21:46 defaultro oh ok
21:46 defaultro here is what I thought
21:46 GargantuaSauce multimeters are not awesome at meauring pulsed current
21:46 defaultro my motor is 0.4A per phase. I had an impression that I should set my drv8825 to 0.4A too
21:47 robotustra the drivers of my eyes are warm a bit when I run motors 100% PWM continuously
21:47 defaultro so that means, I'll use a simple motor code to make the motor running and monitor the motor for few minutes. If for 5 mins, it's still cold, increase the pot
21:48 robotustra yep
21:48 defaultro cool
21:48 defaultro :)
21:48 GargantuaSauce well no need to increase it if it has enough torque
21:48 robotustra you can
21:48 defaultro I have a question about this image, http://b.pololu-files.com/picture/0J4232.600.png
21:48 robotustra but yes, you don't need
21:48 defaultro my question is about RESET and SLEEP. Am I right that I should connect it to Arduino's 5v+?
21:49 GargantuaSauce yes, unless you want to be able to control them from software
21:49 robotustra if it's inversed inputs - yes
21:49 defaultro It confused me because I don't have VDD on my UNO
21:49 defaultro now i got confused :)
21:49 robotustra VDD it's a voltage for motors
21:49 defaultro i want to be able to control it using my software. What does reset and sleep do though?
21:50 GargantuaSauce read the datasheet
21:50 robotustra it's better to take it from other souce
21:50 GargantuaSauce and no robotustra that is wrong, look at the diagram
21:50 defaultro yup, I can use a buck converter
21:50 GargantuaSauce they are logic inputs exactly like the step and dir ones
21:50 robotustra oh
21:50 robotustra VDD is just 5VDC
21:51 GargantuaSauce +5 from arduino would be fine
21:51 defaultro but am I right that with this driver, I should still be able to control the stepper motor the way I want it to step?
21:51 robotustra take it from your controller
21:51 defaultro will do
21:51 defaultro what about my recent question
21:52 GargantuaSauce again read the datasheet, it describes how it's controlled
21:52 defaultro Existing code for example: mystepper(15); It should still move it 15 steps
21:52 defaultro k
21:52 robotustra reforulate your question
21:52 defaultro i'm going to look for it now
21:53 robotustra you put "1" or "0" to DIR pin
21:53 defaultro oh
21:53 defaultro it's different now
21:53 robotustra and do _|-|___|-|___|-|___ on STEP pin
21:53 robotustra 3 steps
21:53 defaultro k
21:54 defaultro i have to look for someone's code so I'll get a better picture of how it's working
21:54 robotustra I did something loke this recently
21:54 defaultro k
21:55 defaultro hmmm, what's the different with this configuration? The reset was connected to sleep and not connected to Arduino anymore? http://a.pololu-files.com/picture/0J4233.600.png
21:55 defaultro difference
21:55 robotustra http://fear.rainbow.by/~onick/CODER.MP4
21:56 defaultro loadking
21:56 defaultro damn keyboard, lol
21:56 defaultro my connection here in Baraboo, WI is friggin slow
21:56 GargantuaSauce defaultro again read the datasheet to learn what the inputs do
21:56 defaultro k
21:56 defaultro i'm reading description right now
21:57 rue_house 232mb, get real
21:57 defaultro robotustra: what driver are you using?
21:58 robotustra 1 sec
21:59 defaultro and what are the specs of the motor you are driving? voltage and amps
21:59 rue_house is it an avr or an arduino
21:59 robotustra this one http://www.abra-electronics.com/products/1182%252dPOLOLU-A4988-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Carrier.html
21:59 defaultro k
21:59 robotustra it's avr
21:59 robotustra atmega128
22:00 defaultro i see it now. The one i bought is a replacement for A4988
22:00 defaultro I think
22:00 robotustra so they should work the same
22:00 robotustra may be some current limitations
22:01 robotustra this motors from CD-ROM
22:01 robotustra they work from 3VDC
22:01 robotustra I have to put resistors not to burn them
22:02 defaultro that is cool. I saw few parts of the video
22:02 defaultro it's only loaded like 8% of it
22:02 robotustra ok
22:02 defaultro the resort's internet is so slow
22:02 defaultro what will it do?
22:03 robotustra it's kind of engraving machine
22:03 defaultro am I right that if my motor is rated 0.4A, it will not go beyond 0.4A?
22:03 defaultro very cool
22:03 robotustra I think 0.4A it's a nominal current
22:04 robotustra it means that your motor will fill good if you don't put more continuously
22:04 defaultro k
22:05 robotustra sometimes you can do overcurrent for short periods of time
22:05 robotustra some spikes
22:05 defaultro i am a bit confused as to how it really works. Am I right that motor request for more amps and the driver gives it. Is that correct?
22:05 robotustra no
22:06 defaultro oh
22:06 robotustra the current consumption depends on load on the shaft
22:06 robotustra if it's free - you consume less
22:06 defaultro oh
22:06 robotustra if it's loaded - it consume more
22:06 defaultro got it
22:07 defaultro and the drv8825 setting is to prevent both from damage
22:07 defaultro the pot current limiter
22:07 robotustra for steppers it's not exactly the same but similar
22:08 robotustra possibly
22:08 defaultro k
22:09 defaultro i'm still confused about the difference bet these 2 bipolar motors. 12v at 0.4A and a 2.8 at 1.5A
22:09 defaultro I got the former because it will last longer when using a 12V battery.
22:09 defaultro Am I right?
22:10 defaultro both have someone similar holding torque
22:10 defaultro somewhat
22:11 robotustra measure the resistance of your coils in the motor
22:11 robotustra go
22:12 defaultro mine is 30
22:12 defaultro is that a good number?
22:12 robotustra of "cubical horces in vacuum"?
22:13 robotustra Ohms?
22:13 defaultro yup
22:14 defaultro datasheet says 30ohms resistance phase but I measured it with multimeter. It was 30.3
22:14 robotustra so, if you'll feed it from 5 V you'll get something like 5/30 = 0.15 A
22:14 robotustra about
22:15 defaultro i'll drive it at 12v
22:15 robotustra if from 12V it will be about 0.4A
22:15 defaultro here is the one i bought and it arrived very quickly, just 2 or 3 days - http://www.stepperonline.com/nema-17-bipolar-stepper-12v-04a-40ncm567ozin-17hs150404s-p-14.html
22:15 defaultro yup, 0.4A is written on that page
22:16 defaultro does it mean that if they say motor is 12v and I drive it at 24v, the motor can get hot?
22:16 defaultro someone told me that voltage doesn;t matter in stepper motors
22:16 robotustra yes
22:16 atom1 what somebody?
22:16 robotustra so you can put 8 VDC
22:17 defaultro got it
22:17 GargantuaSauce when you are using a driver like the one that's on its way
22:17 GargantuaSauce the pot adjusts the duty cycle
22:17 robotustra for the start - and see if it works
22:17 defaultro yup
22:17 atom1 yeah chopper drivers
22:17 defaultro don;t want to see new terminologies right now, hehehe
22:17 robotustra if not - inctease the voltage a bit
22:17 defaultro ok
22:17 defaultro as voltage increases, the current increase, correct?
22:18 robotustra proportionally
22:18 defaultro got it
22:18 defaultro depending on the resistance phase
22:18 robotustra because the resistance is the constant
22:18 defaultro got it
22:18 robotustra yes
22:18 defaultro hey, i'm learning :D
22:18 robotustra U = I * R
22:18 defaultro you mean V
22:18 robotustra uep
22:18 robotustra yep
22:18 defaultro k
22:19 robotustra V
22:19 defaultro I's unit is A and R is ohms. Correct?
22:19 Tom_itx uh huh
22:19 defaultro coolio
22:20 defaultro 0.4 * 30 = 12
22:20 defaultro wow, that's my birthday 04/30
22:20 defaultro so if I drive it at 8vdc, it would be 0.27A
22:20 robotustra yes
22:21 robotustra yes
22:21 defaultro now the question is, ideally when buying a stepper motor, what should be the value of resistance phase?
22:21 robotustra it depends on what torque you want to get
22:21 defaultro got it
22:22 Tom_itx lower R more current it takes
22:22 robotustra if you want big torque - to buy it with the smallest resistance
22:22 Tom_itx V = I*R ... remember?
22:22 defaultro this reminds me of the resistance of my first unipolar steppe r motor. The resistance are different on both coils
22:22 defaultro got it
22:22 robotustra but you have to be careful about drivers
22:22 robotustra you can burn them
22:22 defaultro Tom_itx: yes. But i didn't take electronics course. I'm computer science and we never tackled it
22:22 Tom_itx or your fingers
22:23 defaultro k
22:23 Tom_itx i didn't either
22:23 defaultro :)
22:23 robotustra arduino is not so bad as I thought from the beginning
22:23 defaultro I'll read a book called art of electronics given to me by a very cool guy here :)
22:24 defaultro i was told though that i won't become good with electronics when I use arduino
22:24 defaultro what program did they use back in the 1970s?
22:24 defaultro was it assembly?
22:24 Tom_itx the 'learning' is all done for you
22:25 defaultro yup, and I'm learning daily
22:25 Tom_itx asm, forth etc
22:25 goRed
22:26 defaultro very cool
22:26 defaultro MOV AH, 5 :)
22:27 defaultro i've been watching your video robotustra , what tool did you use to build the housing for the motors?
22:28 robotustra this one http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/maholet/24765393/17688/17688_600.jpg
22:28 defaultro what is that?
22:28 robotustra it's a cnc mill
22:28 defaultro you also built it?
22:28 robotustra yes
22:29 defaultro :)
22:29 robotustra aluminium+files+drill press+controllers+motors+4 months = cnc mill
22:29 robotustra ah, hack saw
22:29 defaultro nice
22:29 defaultro i want to make one too
22:30 defaultro is software needed?
22:30 robotustra http://maholet.livejournal.com/20471.html
22:30 robotustra yes,
22:30 robotustra I use Mach3
22:30 defaultro k
22:31 defaultro roughly, if I build a small one, decent size, how much can it cost me?
22:31 robotustra 1000
22:31 robotustra 1500
22:32 defaultro wow, pretty expensive!
22:32 robotustra about
22:32 robotustra yep
22:32 robotustra you can buy ready one
22:32 robotustra from china for the same money
22:32 defaultro what else can I do with CNC?
22:32 robotustra you can do everything
22:33 defaultro can it be used for making pulley?
22:33 robotustra mine - yes
22:33 defaultro nice
22:33 robotustra in general yes
22:33 defaultro I'm really impressed and jealous as well! :D
22:33 robotustra mine in about 0.02 mm of precision
22:34 defaultro sweet
22:34 robotustra now I can do better one but I don't need it really
22:34 defaultro :)
22:34 robotustra I hope I'll use this one for at least 10 years
22:35 defaultro http://www.linuxcnc.org/
22:36 Tom_itx do you use that?
22:36 robotustra yeah, may be I'll move from windows to linux also
22:36 Tom_itx i run linuxcnc on my mill
22:36 robotustra with the time
22:36 MrCurious 3 of 8 holes tapped
22:37 robotustra I have no time for this
22:37 Tom_itx but yet you are here
22:37 robotustra MrCurious: go back to work, no time for talks
22:37 MrCurious wrists ready to explode
22:38 robotustra oh
22:38 robotustra use extenters
22:38 robotustra or lubricate the tap
22:38 robotustra do you?
22:39 robotustra put more oil
22:39 robotustra I used to tap up to 40 holes per day when I did my mill
22:39 MrCurious i added lubricant, it made the filings stick and jam
22:39 robotustra but small one
22:39 MrCurious dry seems better
22:40 robotustra it depends
22:40 robotustra do you do 1+ 1/4 CW and 1/2 CCW?
22:40 robotustra of turn?
22:41 robotustra because you tap can stuck in aluminium
22:41 robotustra I usually cleaned the tap with used toothbrush
22:42 MrCurious something basically lilke that
22:42 robotustra very helpful device
22:42 MrCurious i have a glue brush :)
22:43 robotustra I don't know how it looks loke
22:43 robotustra like
22:44 MrCurious almost to half done
22:44 robotustra hm, I'm thinking whether I get something useful if I get from Mach3 to EMC2
22:45 MrCurious never know til you boot the live dvd
22:47 robotustra because the problem is not in controlling software
22:47 robotustra but in G-code generators
22:48 MrCurious i dont think emc2 generates g-code
22:48 robotustra controlling software is already setup and could work for ages
22:48 robotustra yes
22:48 robotustra it's just what I already have
22:48 robotustra oh, btw, I have to backup my cnc mill computer
22:48 robotustra just in case
22:49 robotustra and all settings
22:52 robotustra the reason why I'll not go to LinuxCNC is:
22:52 robotustra Not Found
22:52 robotustra The requested URL /docs/EMC2_Developer_Manual.pdf was not found on this server.
22:52 robotustra Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
22:52 robotustra it means that's just a bunch of hippies who do this
22:52 robotustra not serius approach
22:56 shuggans hi all :)
22:57 robotustra hi
22:58 shuggans rue: How ya been?!
22:58 robotustra Tom_itx: does linuxcnc recognize gerber format?
23:00 MrCurious 6 of 8 3/4 inch holes tapped
23:01 robotustra by midnight you'll finish :)
23:02 MrCurious another 15 minutes
23:07 GuShH robotustra: it's just aluminum pfft
23:09 GuShH robotustra: for milling PCBs?
23:09 GuShH I think they all convert to the native format one way or another
23:10 robotustra yes
23:10 GuShH http://sourceforge.net/projects/gerbertogcode/ maybe
23:10 GuShH http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/pcb-gcode/files
23:10 robotustra oh, thanks
23:10 GuShH I thought they would have native support or conversion
23:10 GuShH Odd
23:11 robotustra the havent
23:11 ShH shakes
23:12 GuShH phaw can you believe this bike is from 1987? http://mla-s1-p.mlstatic.com/yamaha-genesis-fzr-400-en-espectacular-estado-7112-MLA5158581718_102013-F.jpg
23:13 GuShH there are clues, single piston calipers, the square-box rear design... but other than that it shares a very similar frame to what's still used today and it has a pretty darn sexy design for it's age
23:13 GuShH FZR400
23:13 robotustra ok, should go to sleep
23:13 robotustra bb
23:14 GuShH I wonder if the engines were as efficient, they were DOHC but carburated
23:14 GuShH So chances are they are a lot more efficient now adays
23:25 MrCurious and DONE
23:25 MrCurious really pleased with the rail mounts
23:30 robotustra did you check the parallelness?
23:39 GuShH lol robotustra made a funny
23:39 GuShH of course he didn't
23:39 GuShH also it's alu, it's going to flex like spaghetti!
23:40 GuShH MrCurious: so how did those interviews turn out anyway?
23:41 MrCurious 1 is 990 minute phone and tomorrow
23:41 MrCurious 90
23:41 MrCurious other is 2 hour in person wed
23:41 MrCurious both for same place
23:41 GuShH 90 minutes... what the hell
23:41 MrCurious with some people i would really like to work with
23:41 GuShH is he going to make you read the bible to him?
23:41 MrCurious technical q&a with a IIT grad who has a decade at IBM
23:42 GuShH oh so someone who thinks he knows it all but he's just an old outdated fart going down hill
23:42 MrCurious i am a little intimidated
23:42 GuShH that applies to anyone from IBM
23:42 MrCurious no the iit guys are vriliant
23:42 MrCurious not like te harvard ones
23:43 GuShH you should hear the amount of nonsense old IBM guys can spew out in public
23:43 ShH shakes
23:43 GuShH MrCurious: I take it the weather is colder now?
23:44 GuShH I gave one of the kittens away yesterday... sad.
23:44 MrCurious 50F 0r50f at night 70 - 80 f in day
23:44 GuShH Got at least two already booked
23:44 GuShH So that leaves one left
23:44 ShH was really sad to see the kitte
23:44 MrCurious 1 for YOU
23:44 GuShH no, I can't
23:45 GuShH and if I were to keep one it would've been the one I already gave away
23:45 ShH wipes
23:46 GuShH should've got more contact information from the girl who took him... hmm
23:46 GuShH but I didn't want to mix things up