#robotics Logs
Nov 06 2013
#robotics Calendar
00:35 GargantuaSauce tmux new
00:36 GargantuaSauce hurr this is not my terminal
00:42 theBear totally, dude
00:42 theBear wait, you are not my dude
00:42 GargantuaSauce :(
00:56 defaultro hey folks, is my grammar correct? :) I'm so glad my elbow is really healing.
01:11 theBear grammar good, you probably didn't mean really though... maybe finally, or "healing nicely"
01:11 defaultro perfectl
01:11 defaultro I'm so glad my elbow is healing nicely!
01:11 defaultro sounds better?
01:11 defaultro or I'm so glad my elbow is finally healing!
04:12 theBear kinda depends why you are glad <grin> tho first round wouldn't have surprised anyone if you hadn't said anything
12:54 wcht How do I get the DH-parameters if i have a translational joint behind a rotational joint, so that the z-Axis of the translational joint points into the same direction as the x-axis of the rotational joint?
12:56 Tom_itx subtract the rotational angle?
12:56 wcht from what?
12:56 Tom_itx from where it started
12:56 Tom_itx or 'home'
12:57 wcht subtract from the variable parameter of the rotational jonit (e.g. theta_1)
12:57 wcht never seen that anywhere
12:58 Tom_itx ask rue_house
13:53 rue_house iinematics?
13:53 rue_house ^k
13:59 wcht yes
14:02 wcht rue_house, is it appropriate to write something like "* - pi/2" in the DH-
14:02 wcht table, if i want to set an offset to a rotational link?
14:03 wcht I have never seen something like that, usually the value for a variable parameter is indicated by "*", "q_i", "theta_i", etc. but always without any offset
14:23 rue_house depends, whats the text being interpreted by?
14:23 wcht I dont understand the question. Which text?
14:24 rue_house "* - pi/2"
14:24 wcht well that would stand in the Theta-column of the DH-table
14:25 wcht if "*" stands for the rotation of a rotational joint
14:29 wcht so when computing the transformation matrix i would write cos(theta_i-pi/2) instead of cos(theta_i) and sin(theta_i-pi/2) instead of sin(theta_i)
14:30 wcht leading to sin instead of cos and -cos instead of sin
14:30 rue_house I would sugget something like g3dTranslate(&frame.points, pt3(0, -20, 700)); if you want to do a translation
14:31 rue_house oh, your using matrixes, hmm, all my stuff is build for speed and efficiency...
14:32 wcht It just a theoretical question on Denavit-Hartenberg parameters
14:33 rue_house fine school stuff, I dont use it
14:43 rue_house wcht, do you have the multiplied matrix and your trying to work backwards?
14:44 defaultro Hey guys, I lost the info that was given to me about the bipolar stepper driver. I'm looking for something around 30v 2-5A. My new motor is 12v, 1A. I want more power so that if I buy another bigger motor in the future, I won't have to spend again on the driver. what's your recommendation?
14:44 rue_house this cold wouldn't be too bad if my face didn't feel like it was going to explode
14:44 wcht no i have a sketch of a manipulator and want to find the DH parameters so that the home position of the robot matches the sketch
14:44 rue_house defaultro, when was it told to you?
14:45 defaultro I think about 5 days ago
14:45 wcht but if choose the frames according to the convention x_i points into the same direction as z_i+1
14:45 wcht for some rotational joint
14:45 rue_house zlog,
14:45 rue_house defaultro, so, the 1st?
14:45 defaultro i'm reading it now :)
14:45 wcht so i cant brinz z_i in line with z_i+1 by rotating around x_i
14:46 rue_house http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23robotics/2013-11-01.html <-- read the first
14:46 defaultro no, that was just yesterday
14:46 defaultro reading now
14:46 wcht i would also rotate around z_i by 90 degrees
14:47 wcht but as link i is rotational theta_i=*
14:47 wcht if it was a prismatic link i would just fix it to -pi72
14:47 wcht -pi/2
14:47 rue_house wcht, how many axies? 6 or 2?
14:48 wcht 6 or 2? I dont understand the questions. 3 dimensions so three axes for each frame
14:48 evil_dan2wik defaultro, You are better off using a driver suggested for your stepper.
14:49 defaultro not building one?
14:49 defaultro i would like to learn though
14:49 rue_house suggested?
14:50 rue_house steppers are just motors, they can use any driver with adequate ratings
14:50 rue_house and lots of drivers without
14:50 defaultro but i did a lot of reading and found out that my current drivers won't work for this new motor
14:51 defaultro i'm currently using tip122 and that would not work for a bipolar s motor
14:51 evil_dan2wik rue_house, he is wanting to get a huge driver for his little stepper in case he upgrades the stepper sometime later.
14:51 defaultro I remember the chip starts with a letter A
14:51 rue_house oh
14:51 rue_house 29--
14:51 defaultro new one is 12v at 1A
14:51 rue_house alteara
14:51 rue_house whats the old one?
14:52 defaultro and it's bigger physically
14:52 defaultro the old one was pulled from a dot matrix printer so I don't know the specs
14:52 rue_house what does it say on the sticker?
14:52 defaultro I already contacted Epson and they don't know the specs
14:52 defaultro one sec
14:52 defaultro STH-39D150-01
14:53 defaultro EM-34
14:53 defaultro and .12870
14:53 defaultro that's it
14:53 rue_house dec 1987... cool
14:53 defaultro oh that's date :D
14:53 defaultro nice
14:53 rue_house I think so
14:54 defaultro it's 38mmx38mm
14:54 defaultro my new one is 42x42
14:54 rue_house most motors are customized
14:54 defaultro it's heavier
14:54 defaultro k
14:54 rue_house Shinano Kenshi
14:54 defaultro ?
14:54 rue_house seems to be the maker
14:54 defaultro ok
14:55 defaultro how did you find out?
14:55 rue_house the series will be STH-39
14:55 defaultro one guy said, this is a 5v unipolar stepper motor. He found it on a russian website
14:55 rue_house D150-01 will be details
14:55 defaultro k
14:55 rue_house http://www.shinano.com/
14:55 defaultro nice info :)
14:55 rue_house does it have that logo on it?
14:56 defaultro no
14:56 defaultro http://neil.privatedns.org/steppermotor.jpg
14:56 defaultro that is it
14:57 rue_house http://www.shinanokenshi.com/products/
14:57 rue_house this isn't a "browse to find your generic product" site
14:58 defaultro :)
14:58 defaultro I'll email them
15:02 defaultro and my new bigger motor which arrived today. It's a NEMA 17 - http://neil.privatedns.org/bettermotor.jpg
15:02 rue_house lots of times they can answer things like that becuase its private client information
15:03 defaultro I sent them an email. I hope I'll get a response
15:04 defaultro anyways, I really like to build my own driver but not sure which one it is. I think A3982 was suggested to me. I don't know if the order of digits are correct
15:04 defaultro but I also remember it's surface mount which I can't do
15:04 defaultro so I'm looking for something that I might be able to solder
15:05 rue_house http://www.pinnaclemicro.com/computer/parts.php?i=STH-39&s=motor&cf=3
15:05 rue_house maybe you should sell it as refurbished
15:05 defaultro I want to keep it for other projects
15:06 defaultro wow, they're expensive
15:06 rue_house STH-39D150-01
15:06 defaultro the one I bought is only $13
15:07 rue_house oh, the .---- is a serial number
15:07 defaultro you mean 150-01?
15:07 defaultro oh the .12870
15:08 rue_house http://oddmix.com/motor/mot_st_shinano_sth_39d122_04.html
15:08 defaultro looks like this old motor of mine is gold
15:09 defaultro so most likely, this motor is also a 12v?
15:09 rue_house STH-39D is the series
15:09 rue_house not really
15:09 Tom_itx defaultro, keelinginc doublestack NEMA23 is what you want
15:09 rue_house I'm still looking
15:09 defaultro Tom_itx: I already bought Nema 17
15:09 defaultro it's with me
15:09 defaultro http://neil.privatedns.org/bettermotor.jpg
15:10 Tom_itx so sad for you
15:10 defaultro the one on the left
15:10 defaultro why?
15:10 Tom_itx nema23 are bigger and beter
15:10 defaultro it's good for my requirement. Nema 23 is so big
15:10 defaultro and heavy
15:10 Tom_itx you said you wanted something bigger running 30v 2-5A
15:10 defaultro in the future
15:10 defaultro not now
15:10 Tom_itx mine will run 48v 4A
15:10 defaultro i said that for the driver
15:10 defaultro nice
15:11 defaultro what driver is it?
15:11 Tom_itx but they're throttled back to 3A
15:11 defaultro k
15:11 Tom_itx gecko 203v
15:11 defaultro bipolar?
15:11 defaultro so gecko 203v is the driver?
15:11 Tom_itx http://www.kelinginc.net/NEMA23Motor.html
15:12 Tom_itx #3 there
15:12 Tom_itx is what i have
15:12 rue_house STH-39D150-01
15:12 Tom_itx http://www.kelinginc.net/GeckorDriver.html
15:12 defaultro nice
15:12 Tom_itx and the 203v
15:12 Tom_itx x 3
15:12 defaultro x3? why
15:12 Tom_itx x y and z
15:13 defaultro ah cnc?
15:13 Tom_itx want one for A & B
15:13 Tom_itx but don't have them
15:13 defaultro i just need a simple one
15:13 Tom_itx so you say
15:13 defaultro but one driver should be enough for one motor right?
15:13 rue_house the -01 is a custom shaft option
15:13 defaultro oh ok
15:13 defaultro nice find rue_house
15:13 defaultro still amazed how you're finding it
15:13 Tom_itx http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/5pcs-NEMA17-78-Oz-in-CNC-stepper-motor-stepping-motor-1-8A/704350_554160664.html
15:14 Tom_itx those are the nema17 steppers you want
15:14 rue_house I think its type 150 of series STH-39D
15:14 defaultro Tom_itx: I already bought but I can buy it in the future
15:14 rue_house the H in STH should be a T, H must be the customer id, aka epson
15:15 defaultro got it rue_house
15:15 defaultro Tom_itx: how is it better than the one I bought, pulling the link
15:15 Tom_itx rue_house how do you feel about ebay batteries for laptops? any good?
15:15 Tom_itx i dunno
15:15 Tom_itx i've been told it's the best for reprap
15:15 defaultro Tom_itx: here it is, http://www.stepperonline.com/nema-17-bipolar-stepper-12v-04a-40ncm567ozin-17hs150404s-p-14.html
15:15 defaultro i've always seen reprap, what is it?
15:16 Tom_itx join #reprap and ask
15:16 rue_house STH-39D150-01
15:16 defaultro is there a smaller than gecko 203v
15:16 defaultro that's too much for what i'm thinking
15:17 defaultro and it's very expensive
15:17 rue_house bah, I cant find another model with a 150 core
15:17 defaultro k
15:18 rue_house SST-39D1500 should be same specs
15:19 defaultro k
15:19 rue_house http://www.uac.co.jp/htdocs/export/mtr/mtrskc/index.html <--- oooo
15:20 defaultro there is no link for the 39D
15:20 rue_house http://www.pikpower.com/New%20Site/SKC_B/stepper_motors.html
15:20 rue_house oooooooo
15:20 rue_house NEMA 17
15:20 rue_house
15:20 rue_house 0.98 - 2.4 kg-cm
15:20 rue_house
15:20 rue_house 6 lead wire
15:20 rue_house 31 mm, 37 mm
15:20 rue_house 1.8/ step
15:20 rue_house http://www.pikpower.com/New%20Site/SKC_B/stepper/SST39D.pdf
15:20 rue_house damnit, its a custom core!
15:21 defaultro so looks like it will be hard to find out what the voltage rating is
15:21 defaultro it's ok, I'll be using the new bipolar s motor
15:22 defaultro so I guess it's not 12v because it heats up so quickly with my 12v ps
15:22 rue_house if you can get somoen who knows what a 150 core is on a SST39D series then you will get your answer
15:22 defaultro 80c-90c
15:22 defaultro k
15:22 rue_house you just using unipolar driver transistors?
15:23 rue_house no current regulation?
15:23 Tom_itx http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriver.html
15:23 Tom_itx 3A driver for $42
15:23 rue_house STH-39D150-01
15:23 Tom_itx 5A for $49
15:24 Tom_itx #8
15:24 Tom_itx no frills
15:24 Tom_itx 60v
15:24 defaultro cool
15:25 defaultro awesome link!
15:25 rue_house http://www.shinano.in/motors/ABV_Full-line_Catalog.pdf
15:25 rue_house page 16
15:25 defaultro also Tom_itx I don't have to make my own.
15:25 rue_house ooo its not there
15:26 defaultro nope
15:26 defaultro but it's a 1.8 for sure
15:26 defaultro i counted it, 200 steps
15:27 Tom_itx rue
15:27 defaultro Tom_itx: this is my old setup - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A95uCHp5Q7Q
15:28 rue_house ask for details on a SST39D with a 150 core, they might not clue in that your asking for what might be confidential info
15:28 defaultro that uses TIP122 transistors
15:28 Tom_itx 10.8v Li-ion the same as 11.1v?
15:28 defaultro ok
15:28 defaultro in that video, you will see my STH-39D in action :)
15:28 rue_house yea I saw
15:29 defaultro :)
15:29 Tom_itx rue_house you're the battery expert here...
15:29 Tom_itx what about it?
15:29 defaultro glad to know rue_house is the battery experct
15:29 Tom_itx dell wants 150
15:29 Tom_itx interweb want's $25 - 47
15:30 rue_house aha!
15:30 defaultro so is this a true statement 8000mAh divided by 1A or 1000mAh = roughly 8 hours of use?
15:30 rue_house http://www.shinano.in/motors/ABV_Full-line_Catalog.pdf
15:30 rue_house page 29 hints that
15:30 rue_house STH-39D150-01
15:30 defaultro ok
15:30 rue_house 5A/phase
15:31 rue_house so you would need current control
15:31 rue_house cause it'll be a really low voltage
15:31 rue_house yea, 5.0 amps/phase
15:31 rue_house whats the 1...
15:33 rue_house SST-39D 1 5.0 -01 series SST-39D ? 5.0A/phase shaft option "-01"
15:34 rue_house I'm working on what the 1 means
15:34 defaultro ok
15:34 defaultro are you sure SST would be the same as STH
15:35 defaultro Tom_itx: looks like KL- 4030 is not going to work for my 12v motor. It says 24-40vdc
15:35 rue_house sst will be their own brand they sell, if they are making them for someone specific, it will be ST- where - is a letter representing the customer
15:36 defaultro got it
15:36 rue_house JACKPOT!
15:36 rue_house page 32
15:36 defaultro of what file?
15:36 Tom_itx defaultro when it comes to steppers and stepper drives ignore the voltage
15:37 rue_house http://www.shinano.in/motors/ABV_Full-line_Catalog.pdf
15:37 defaultro oh ok
15:37 Tom_itx you are using a chopper driver
15:37 defaultro huh? it's not stepper motor?
15:37 Tom_itx if that were true, mine are rated for 2-3v and i'm running them at 38v
15:37 rue_house SST-39D is a 39mm, 1.8 degree motor
15:37 rue_house motor length is 1
15:37 defaultro nice
15:38 defaultro D is 1.8 which is correct
15:38 rue_house oh drat, this isn't the same code type
15:38 defaultro no, the stepper angle
15:38 defaultro step angle
15:38 rue_house 1 will be the length tho..
15:39 rue_house is it 31mm long?
15:40 defaultro looks like
15:41 defaultro wait, the shaft?
15:41 rue_house the translation table for the 1 varries by series
15:41 defaultro or the height
15:41 rue_house no, the motor body
15:41 rue_house length on the shaft axis, of the motor body
15:41 defaultro height is 31mm
15:41 defaultro then looking from top, it's 39mmx39mm
15:41 rue_house oh thats it then!
15:42 rue_house so its a 5A mtoor, you need a current controller on it
15:42 defaultro yup
15:42 rue_house nothing like reverse engineering someone part numbers
15:42 defaultro but it heats up very much when only using a 12v 1.2A motor
15:42 defaultro :)
15:42 rue_house no
15:42 rue_house you need current control
15:42 defaultro what is that?
15:43 rue_house cant just chug voltage into it
15:43 rue_house a driver with regulated current output
15:43 rue_house 5A seems like a lot, but some steppers are just like that
15:43 defaultro i tried with a 6v battery and it didn't heat up
15:43 defaultro but torque is weaker
15:44 Tom_itx get a hybrid stepper and you can wire it how you want
15:44 defaultro so I bought a buck converter to find out the sweet spot
15:45 defaultro thanks bro, need to go to my son's school now
15:45 defaultro i'll be back later
15:45 rue_house http://oddmix.com/motor/mot_st_shinano_sth_39d122_04.html
15:46 rue_house those guys seem to be wrong, its a 2.2A motor
15:46 rue_house witha -04 shaft option
15:59 InSaneGame you can wire thoes up to play music
15:59 InSaneGame http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh2AWswAMvw stepper motor mario lol
17:07 GuShH InSaneGame: this is way better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmoDLyiQYKw
17:10 InSaneGame hah yah thats wicked
17:10 InSaneGame http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvyhyvpT7Q
17:12 GuShH InSaneGame: I wonder if someone has taken it one step further than that
17:12 GuShH it's already overkill though
17:18 InSaneGame i have seen it done with a tesla coil
17:25 GuShH InSaneGame: same principle as a plasma speaker, I've played with that years ago
17:25 GuShH fun but not practical
17:26 InSaneGame http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkaUsBwe0fo this seems like it was a lot of effort.
17:28 InSaneGame I have just been getting into tesla coils myself. I found a few instructables online now it's all about building my own
18:15 GargantuaSauce i've been pondering messing with HV but it strikes me as a great way to injure onself or destroy half the electronics in the house
18:20 GuShH GargantuaSauce: nah
18:21 GargantuaSauce i dunno
18:22 GargantuaSauce it seems like it would be pretty damn easy to accidentally apply the hv output to the mains, or say radiate a few tens of W of rf
18:25 GargantuaSauce (not to mention the electric field in the air)
18:31 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: depends what you do.. have to try pretty hard to radiate tens of W
18:32 Triffid_Hunter and if it shorts to mains, you've really screwed something up quite badly- why is there exposed mains contacts within centimeters of your HV experiment?
18:33 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: I used to have great fun with crt EHT transformers, those will happily run at a dozen khz or so and give a few thousand volts.. the sparks are shrouded by a pink tube for some reason
18:33 Triffid_Hunter automotive ignition coil will give you up to 50kv but won't run nearly that fast, maybe 200hz or so.. 5cm sparks but no pink shroud
18:34 Triffid_Hunter then there's neon sign and microwave transformers for when you want to do some proper work with your HV
18:34 GargantuaSauce wouldn't that just be corona discharge
18:34 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: corona is what happens when a proper arc can't form because your ground is too far away
18:34 Triffid_Hunter you generally want to avoid that, because it also happens inside the transformer and degrades the winding insulation
18:35 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: anyway, get yourself a HV source and connect it to the filament of an ordinary incandescent lightbulb.. that's a great way to start :)
18:35 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: http://ava7.com/images/lightbulbs/light-bulb-plasma-globe3.jpg :)
18:36 GargantuaSauce lol, ghetto plasma globe
18:36 GargantuaSauce awesome
18:36 Triffid_Hunter dunno about ghetto, they work the exact same way as "proper" ones, just the globe is smaller and far more ubiquitous
18:39 GargantuaSauce anyway i'm probably going to build a boring smps (probably resonant forward converter topology) before moving on to driving a hv transformer
18:39 GargantuaSauce lots of ground to cover firt
18:41 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/Royer_oscillator.gif
18:41 robotustra GargantuaSauce: what is the move machine for?
18:42 GargantuaSauce http://xn--d-bga.su/psh.gif this is an accurate depiction of its purpose
18:42 robotustra ok :)
18:43 robotustra menthal masturbation
18:43 GargantuaSauce yup
18:43 robotustra good reason for all kind of things
18:44 GargantuaSauce i should really finish the damn thing
18:44 GargantuaSauce it's like 20% soldered
18:44 robotustra which one?
18:44 GargantuaSauce the move machine
18:44 robotustra ok
18:44 robotustra so what are you doing here then?
18:45 robotustra go and finish
18:45 robotustra today I have no force to do anything have to think a bit
18:45 GargantuaSauce busy procrastinating
18:46 robotustra this combination of words have no meaning for me
18:47 robotustra I think that free will does not work
18:47 GargantuaSauce royer oscillator looks interesting triffid, i was gonna use a microcontroller or monolithic smps controller (i have the TEA1610T kicking around)
18:47 GargantuaSauce there is no free will in a deterministic universe
18:47 Triffid_Hunter GargantuaSauce: royer is excellent for stuff like this, gives a relatively clean output, and it automatically runs at a frequency and current that the transformer likes
18:47 robotustra who told you that the univetse is deterministic?
18:48 robotustra universe
18:48 Triffid_Hunter I'm not in a deterministic universe, this one has heisenberg uncertainty :)
18:49 ace4016 depends who you ask :P
18:49 ace4016 some would say it's only uncertain in your frame of reference :P
18:49 GargantuaSauce i am of the opinion that the uncertainty principle imposes limits on metrology
18:49 GargantuaSauce rather than the actual mechanics
18:51 robotustra but there are too many questions
18:51 GargantuaSauce of course
18:51 GargantuaSauce the only truth i've arrived at is that we cannot arrive at any truth :V
18:52 robotustra because the truth does not exist?
18:52 robotustra its true
18:52 GargantuaSauce no that is not what i mean
18:52 Triffid_Hunter truth is subjective
18:52 GargantuaSauce but we cannot build an accurate representation of it
18:52 Triffid_Hunter relativity tells us this ;)
18:52 robotustra truth is just one state
18:52 GargantuaSauce in any case this is gonna get dumb fast
18:53 robotustra end there is an opposit state as well
18:53 GuShH Hmm everyone keeps saying the tap I need is 1/2" - 26TPI but that's almost non existent plus the measurements say it should be slightly smaller... ie one size down, the pitch seems correct though
18:53 ShH s
18:53 GuShH FUCK YOU BRITS
18:54 robotustra M6?
18:54 Triffid_Hunter GuShH: could be M6?
18:54 robotustra yep
18:54 GuShH robotustra: that would be metric.
18:54 GuShH No, metric are not measured by TPI either.
18:54 robotustra but may be its metric there?
18:54 GuShH the equivalent of pitch is in millimeters, not threads per inch.
18:54 GuShH robotustra: it's not a consistent size in the metric world either
18:54 GuShH say 12.7mm nominal
18:54 GuShH in reality it's slightly less
18:54 Triffid_Hunter GuShH: 26TPI = 0.976mm pitch.. M6 is 1mm pitch
18:55 GuShH Triffid_Hunter: but it's not metric...
18:55 robotustra may be M6 will fit
18:55 Triffid_Hunter GuShH: you sure?
18:55 GuShH the angle is not correct for a metric thread either
18:55 robotustra ok
18:55 rue_house self tappers always fit
18:55 GuShH we're talking steel
18:55 rue_house sometimes you have to push hard
18:55 rue_house yup
18:56 robotustra push harder
18:56 GuShH ...
18:56 GargantuaSauce i think this conversation lacks the euphemisms for which it has such great potential
18:56 GuShH I sent an email to the manufacturer, no answer in a week
18:56 robotustra GuShH: I did my eye finally working
18:56 GuShH GargantuaSauce: I'm just annoyed, spent all day browsing hardware stores for nothing
18:56 GuShH well I did find a 18x2mm tap for an OK price in HSS, but that wasn't a hard find
18:57 robotustra GuShH: learn from Adam Savage, buy all variety of bolts and screws
18:57 GuShH Just for lulz I'll try the 1mm gage again
18:57 GuShH robotustra: if only my wallet would learn from adam savage first
18:57 GuShH I buy taps as I need them
18:57 GargantuaSauce myth busted
18:57 robotustra work harder
18:58 GuShH I would get a whole set but they're often crappy carbon steel sets for dressing threads
18:58 robotustra GuShH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hld-6YdsHQY
18:58 GuShH good taps aren't cheap
18:58 GuShH when I do buy screws, bolts, nuts, etc... I buy more than I need, often twice.
18:58 GargantuaSauce the slamming into the sides still makes me cringe
18:59 robotustra it's ok
18:59 robotustra I did it like this
18:59 robotustra it's just uncontrolled pulse
19:00 robotustra no PWm
19:00 orlok Hmm. I was going to use epoxy to embed some nuts into a particleboard shelf to mount some stuff to
19:00 GuShH it just needs a couple limits set
19:00 GuShH maybe tweening as well
19:00 orlok but i think i'll just drill all the way through and use longer bolts
19:00 robotustra does your muscles have limits set?
19:00 GuShH orlok: with washers!
19:00 GuShH robotustra: joints do
19:00 GuShH practical limits
19:00 GargantuaSauce robotustra: yes, it's called pain
19:00 robotustra the frame IS the limit set
19:01 GuShH heh muscles have their limits, but they're constrained by the joints
19:01 ShH slaps robotu
19:01 robotustra be be be be
19:01 orlok GuShH: yup, with washers!
19:01 GuShH orlok: sounds like a plan, I don't like glues in general
19:01 GuShH I can't help but think it's a kludge every time I glue something
19:01 orlok You know the little brass motherboard standoffs?
19:01 GuShH or use tape...
19:02 GuShH sure
19:02 GuShH are they still used? heh
19:02 GargantuaSauce those are super handy, i have a few different sizes of m3 ones
19:02 orlok I was going to screw a flat headed M3 screw into one of those, drill a 5mm dia hole maybe 5mm deep into the wood
19:02 GuShH robotustra: I like it but it's way bigger than I thought it would be!
19:02 GargantuaSauce been meaning to get nylon ones too
19:03 robotustra 60 mm in diameter
19:03 GuShH find a friend with a lathe, buy a whole meter of delrin and have him make you custom ones!
19:03 robotustra it was planned like this
19:03 orlok and use epoxy to fix the standoff in the hole, with the attached screw pointing down, to give something for the epoxy to grip
19:03 orlok so there would just ne a length of thread protruding
19:03 GuShH orlok: there are press-on inserts for wood, but particleboard is meh for this sort of application
19:04 GuShH too much force on a small surface area will make it crumble
19:04 orlok yeah
19:04 GuShH ok let's get the thread gages....
19:04 orlok its just to hold down a PSU, a small form factor PC, and a hard drive cradle
19:05 orlok just to stop them sliding around
19:05 orlok All of the routers, modems, femtocells, etc are bolted to another shelf now
19:06 orlok and a massive 24" rack mount powerboard bolted to the backside of the desk
19:06 orlok no cables of any sort stick out from any of the sides, all tucked behind the desk
19:07 GuShH GargantuaSauce: alright with the 1mm gage I get 3 matched teeth, the rest unmatched... plus the angle is wrong (the thread is cut at 55°, and of course the metric gages are 60°)
19:08 robotustra grease it and take bigger wrench
19:08 GuShH I wonder why everything is metric except for this part
19:08 ShH slaps robotu
19:08 robotustra :)
19:09 GargantuaSauce they make impact drivers for a reason!
19:09 GuShH maybe they got a cheap set of dies with this particular size and they went "meh"
19:09 GuShH even the o-rings are metric
19:10 GuShH but instead of 1/2 I would say it's close to 31/64....
19:10 botustra have big variety of imperial bolts and nuts at
19:10 orlok I have a set of metric tap/dies, for some reason theres a single imperial tap in there as well
19:10 GuShH robotustra: I need the tap for machining purposes, there are no bolts involved
19:11 robotustra ok
19:11 orlok crappy tap+die set from Bunnings
19:11 robotustra ebay bless tou
19:11 GuShH if I were to order a tap overseas it would arrive dull, even in it's box
19:11 GuShH that's how bad the post service is around here
19:11 GuShH THEY WILL DULL YOUR TAPS
19:13 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LTAip-ooRY
19:14 GuShH Hmm I don't have a 26tpi gage, but 28 is not a match... wait, I don't have a 27 either? wtf
19:14 robotustra busy, watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVeujH2k6mU
19:14 orlok Do you have... a hammer?
19:14 GuShH for?
19:14 GuShH I probably have at least 10 hammers
19:15 ShH thinks he could get rid of a few ham
19:17 GuShH robotustra: british thread standards are silly
19:18 GuShH I would never work on a british motorcycle for instance
19:18 GuShH It's just asking for trouble and depression.
19:18 orlok And thats just dealing with the wiring!
19:18 orlok ALL HAIL LUCAS LORD OF DARKNESS!
19:18 GuShH imagine finding a stud extractor for a 60 year old british bike when you live nowhere near the brits :p
19:19 GuShH (or just two equal nuts that fit)
19:19 robotustra yep imperial system should die with the horrible death
19:19 GuShH dead by rusty steel dildoing.
19:19 GuShH death*
19:20 robotustra 12"
19:20 GuShH or bigger
19:20 GuShH So I sent several emails to different aluminum suppliers... only got a few responses
19:20 GuShH one worse than the other.
19:20 robotustra because it's sutable only for penis measurements
19:20 Faek Aren't inches imperial units...
19:20 GuShH -_-
19:21 ace4016 no
19:21 robotustra yes
19:21 GuShH robotustra: they wouldn't give me a quote based on my list, after a couple more emails they sent me the price per kilogram for brass and aluminum (no mention of alloys or anything)
19:21 ace4016 well, yes, but the ones you're thinking about are probably US Customary
19:21 ace4016 not imperial (not the same)
19:21 GuShH they probably don't even have a spreadsheet setup to calculate the weight of each required item
19:21 Faek I dont know, we use metric here
19:22 GuShH it's not even hard, the alloy densities are well known....
19:22 GuShH They still haven't sent me a quote on the S&H...
19:22 robotustra GuShH: I'll tell you the secret: there is no professionals in US and Canada
19:22 ace4016 we know how to convert between any system we damn well please over here :P
19:22 GuShH Some companies are highly efficient, others makes you want to grab a gun and shove it up their arse.
19:22 robotustra there is no such country USA or Canada
19:23 GuShH (then empty the entire mag)
19:23 robotustra it's a bunch of private monkeys
19:23 Faek I usually approximate an inch as 2.5cm, yard as about .9-1m, foot as 30cm
19:23 GuShH robotustra: we're talking Argentina in this case, I think in both US and CA you can order anything online and have it delivered to your door the next day, pretty much
19:23 GuShH there are no hobby sites for non ferrous metals here
19:23 robotustra they do what they want in private and there is no collaboration
19:23 GuShH but it's true about the closed circles of wisdom and secrecy
19:24 GuShH otherwise bend over and expect to pay premium prices for a chunk of store-bought metal
19:24 GargantuaSauce the couriers here are not too awesome
19:24 GargantuaSauce UPS for instance basically doubles any import fees
19:25 GuShH I just want an estimate so I can decide whether to order from them or not... instead they invited me to "come on over and browse through the samples" (whatever the hell samples are)
19:25 orlok the guys in brown dont mess around!
19:25 GuShH I don't want no samples
19:25 GuShH orlok: they do, friggin thieves!
19:25 GuShH specially the blacks on brown, there are videos! don't call me a racist yet!
19:26 GuShH (ups guy steals fedex package)
19:27 GuShH bah I'll get the existing part with me next time and we'll measure with everything they've got and test with every damn tap they have until one fits or I turn into the hulk.
19:27 GuShH (yes it's for a rifle supressor, no it's not illegal in this case -- and it's for plinking, no hunting)
19:27 GuShH (barrel is already threaded)
19:28 GargantuaSauce plinking oligarchs
19:28 GuShH PCP
19:28 GuShH the videos online make no justice as to how loud they are without supressors
19:28 GuShH often louder than an actual rim 22
19:28 GuShH (at least subsonic rounds)
19:30 GuShH I've had two encounters with neighbours so far, one thought something was going on because she heard several shots so she came on over, the other wasn't a direct encounter but I heard him scream to his dog "go away they're shooting over there" hilarious...
19:30 GuShH Then there's the fact that most people who aren't into firearms can't tell the difference, specially a few meters away from a PCP and a firearm...
19:30 orlok PCP?
19:30 GuShH think CO2 on steroids
19:31 GuShH about three times the pressure.
19:31 GuShH orlok: pre-charged-pneumatic
19:31 GuShH it's funny how they are a lot more expensive than the real deal (to obtain, not to shoot)
19:32 GuShH but they're great for plinking / practice, suitable for small game if you're into that (not me).
19:34 GuShH Most PCP .22 caliber shoot at around 1000FPS, some even meet these speeds on .25, fun toys.
19:34 GuShH anything higher on a low grain pellet and you'll get an erratic trajectory anyway
19:43 orlok GuShH: Hmm. Is that what "air pistols" generqally use?
19:44 orlok the target shooter i worked with said they were very very accurate, more accurate than basically any powder based firearm
19:45 orlok also, 9mm and .38 are pretty much the same size projectile, but the 9mm brass cant back enough powder, while the .38's can fit too much
19:45 GuShH pistols are usually just CO2
19:45 GuShH there are very few PCP pistols
19:45 GuShH problem with pistols and CO2 is the short barrel means there's little expansion potential and thus lower speeds
19:46 GuShH orlok: the best shooters practice with pneumatic weapons, that's true
19:46 GuShH they are quiet, reliable, accurate
19:46 GuShH no permits required either and you can shoot them almost anywhere
19:46 GuShH there are even 50 cal pneumatic rifles (I kid you not)
19:46 orlok here they are classed as firearms that need to be registered
19:46 GuShH where?
19:46 GuShH that's a shame
19:47 GuShH but it makes sense, some of these can easily kill a person
19:47 orlok which lead to the interesting problem a guy i knew had.. he was really into paintball
19:47 GuShH hmm paintball is usually only CO2 or nitrogen now adays?
19:47 GuShH co2 seems to top at about 70BAR I think
19:47 orlok also had a few pot plants in a shed. Cops found out about the grow, and because he was a registered firmarms licence holder, when they turned up, they turned up with the full set of stormtroopers
19:48 GuShH anyway I don't want to annoy the neighbours plus having to wear ear protection when it's not a firearm makes me sad.
19:48 orlok even though the firearm was a paintball gun
19:48 GuShH sigh
19:48 m_itx wonders if GuShH is using his l
19:48 GuShH tell him he can come over any time and grow his pot, it's legal.
19:48 GuShH Tom_itx: I am, not right now since I can't source the alu I need
19:49 Tom_itx such as?
19:49 Tom_itx i just got some 3" roundbar
19:49 GuShH orlok: see, it's legal... I can get seeds and start growing it legally, but that doesn't mean I'm doing it. proves the fight against pot is futile at best.
19:49 GuShH Tom_itx: common stuff, 6061-T6 .. I just can't find a nearby supplier
19:50 GuShH they're all quite distant, so the pricing on S&H is rather high, I could however buy in small bulk quantities to make up for it, but right now I don't need that much stock
19:50 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/kat/Bellhousing6.jpg
19:50 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/kat/bell_brushend4.jpg
19:50 GuShH kat?
19:51 GuShH used a countersink bit or an oversized center drill?
19:51 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/kat/BellHousing3.jpg
19:52 Tom_itx countersink
19:52 GuShH the countersinks you can slide up and down with a grubscrew are worth the hassle at all ?
19:52 Tom_itx i don't know what you're talking about
19:52 Tom_itx this is a carbide countersink
19:52 GuShH they make some countersink sets that have a sliding countersink portion
19:53 GuShH not sure if they're meant for wood only
19:53 Tom_itx i wouldn't own any i think
19:54 Tom_itx they are to locate the long screw on the far end of a motor housing
19:54 GuShH ok seems they're only for wood, like these http://www.harborfreight.com/22-piece-carbon-steel-tapered-drill-bit-and-countersink-set-7608.html
19:55 GuShH trash anyway
19:56 GuShH Tom_itx: until I show something I've turned out of alu, I won't make any comments :p
19:57 GuShH yey the metric tap is exactly what I needed, that was a leap of faith by trusting what I read on a random forum... still on the hunt for the british one
19:57 GuShH I need to turn some end caps out of T6 under 1" in diameter, some internally threaded.
19:58 GuShH a brass insert would be nice for the threads
19:58 Tom_itx i got 1" brass
19:58 Tom_itx 1.5" bronze
19:58 Tom_itx maybe 2
19:58 GuShH the brass would have to be smaller, no need for full diameter
19:59 Tom_itx 3/4" brass
19:59 Tom_itx .375" brass
19:59 GuShH 21mm external diameter 15.8mm internal (ideal)
19:59 Tom_itx 1/2" square
19:59 ShH puts all of Tom_itx's stock in a blender and pops the famous ques
20:02 GuShH Tom_itx: why did you need bronze?
20:02 GuShH some fancy bushing?
20:03 Tom_itx i don't recall now
20:03 GuShH hah
20:03 Tom_itx but i got some
20:03 GuShH for good measure
20:03 Tom_itx it's being used for a counterweight on my cnc z axis right now
20:06 ShH finds a "half used" (???) tap of the right size, but wrong pr
20:06 GuShH I didn't know you could buy used taps, I thought after they got dull you were supposed to throw them away
20:06 Tom_itx i didn't know you would want to
20:07 Tom_itx i throw them away when they break
20:07 GuShH I don't, I can't stand dull drill bits... can you imagine dull taps?
20:07 Triffid_Hunter GuShH: no, when they get dull you sell them to fools on ebay that don't know any better
20:07 GuShH Triffid_Hunter: aha! I should start selling dull shit!
20:07 Triffid_Hunter GuShH: drill bits are easy enough to sharpen
20:07 GuShH some are.
20:07 GuShH bigger sizes (for me)
20:07 Triffid_Hunter I find anything above about 1.5mm easy enough
20:08 GuShH I can't bother with 3mm or such, plus sometimes I break one... not too often.
20:08 GuShH just common hss
20:08 GuShH I try to take good care of the big sizes due to their cost.
20:09 GuShH let's see in theory you could resharpen straight taps to a certain degree
20:10 GuShH just like you could pretend to fix a broken sword with hotglue.
20:11 GuShH Tom_itx: thoughts on just turning a tap out of mild steel (then attempt to temper it after cutting the flutes) it's for T6 aluminum, just a few uses.
20:12 ShH will try the other big store tomorrow or friday th
20:13 Tom_itx in a pinch i've slotted a bolt
20:13 Tom_itx but usually just to clean out already threads
20:14 GuShH I've done it once, not proud of it... the end result wasn't quite perfect either
20:14 GuShH thing is, can I source a 1/2 inch 26tpi bolt at all? and with the right grade?
20:14 ShH bl
20:15 Tom_itx that would be special
20:15 Tom_itx 1/2 12 and 1/2 13 are common
20:18 GuShH I've no idea why they chose 26tpi on 1/2
20:19 GuShH Other than they might be plotting against my sanity or whatever is left of it.
20:19 Tom_itx to be unique
20:24 theBear ooh, if i was an artist i'd quickly art up a x-y table with a pen holder and GuShH'es brain involved :)
23:07 MrCurious i think i became sick of this video about 20 listens ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MteSlpxCpo
23:31 GuShH MrCurious: poser!
23:37 MrCurious yes
23:37 MrCurious and tonight i am posing as a maker of cnc y axis
23:38 MrCurious always nice to work with aluminum
23:38 MrCurious GuShH: how is life on teh cross dressing side?
23:38 GuShH wat
23:38 GuShH That's Brasil.
23:39 MrCurious just jerking your chain
23:39 GuShH I like Aluminum, it's the chocolate of metals.
23:39 GuShH Lead would be the butter
23:40 MrCurious andcalcium?
23:41 Faek Francium!
23:44 R0b0t1` Magnesium
23:59 anonnumberanon Asimo is the best robot. Discuss.