#robotics Logs
Oct 29 2013
#robotics Calendar
00:00 rue_shop2 look up "gecko drive" and see what you find
00:00 defaultro i also want to move a camcorder from point A to pt B in like 1 foot per 4 seconds
00:00 defaultro ok
00:01 defaultro I'm seeing controllers when I searched for gecko drive in ebay
00:01 defaultro like this one, http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Geckodrive-G-320x-CNC-Servo-Motor-Drivers-Gecko-Great-Price-Router-Mill-Plasma-/290665546047?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ad04413f
00:01 defaultro is that right?
00:02 defaultro that's too expensive. Can I use my arduino or can I built my own controller like how I did for my stepper motor?
00:26 GuShH defaultro: they're expensive because people are willing to pay the price for certain reliability and support
00:26 GuShH you can make them for a fraction of the cost if you're willing to.
00:26 defaultro ok
00:27 GuShH for some applications they're cheap, for others mighty expensive...
00:27 defaultro most of the videos and articles i've seen, servo motors only rotates half way
00:27 defaultro got it
00:27 GuShH you might want to automate a machine worth 10 times the price for instance
00:27 defaultro k
00:27 GuShH not all servos are equal though
00:27 defaultro i think I'll stick with stepper motors then
00:28 defaultro I'll just have to figure out the proper gear
00:28 GuShH whats it for?
00:28 defaultro one sec
00:28 defaultro here it is, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A95uCHp5Q7Q
00:29 defaultro GuShH: I built a camera slider on rail
00:29 defaultro it works perfectly when it's flat
00:29 GuShH nice
00:29 defaultro however, when it's angled like 30 degrees, the motor can't hold it well. It slides back down
00:29 GuShH you need feedback if you want constant motion
00:29 defaultro feedback?
00:29 any67064803 https://duckduckgo.com/?q=servo+mod+for+full+rotation
00:29 GuShH and either a bigger motor or a different drive ratio
00:30 defaultro ok
00:30 GuShH right, have a way to know if it's slowing down to give it more juice, a feedback loop
00:30 defaultro going back, I am thinking of adding a gear with clutch to prevent slider from sliding back
00:30 GuShH is that a printer belt?
00:30 defaultro :D you got it
00:30 defaultro i pulled that motor from a dead dot matric printer
00:30 defaultro as well as the belth
00:30 GuShH those things are great for parts
00:30 defaultro belt
00:31 defaultro yup
00:31 defaultro i posted pictures of my son's toy which are gears but it's hard to rotate by hand
00:31 defaultro i was thinking that if I make my gearbox like this, I will be able to hold the camera dolly on an angle
00:32 defaultro i'm also going to buy a bigger better motor maybe 12v
00:32 GuShH I don't see why you'd want a servo here
00:32 GargantuaSauce how would you feel about using a leadscrew?
00:32 GuShH leadscrews are heavy compared to his current solution
00:32 defaultro i was just thinking about servo earlier but don't want it anymore after I read few tutorials
00:33 defaultro what are leadscrews?
00:33 GuShH think threaded rod
00:33 GargantuaSauce just threaded rod and a travelling nut
00:33 defaultro ah, I also thought of that before and honestly, that will really work very well
00:33 GuShH the nut/s are fixed to the moving dolly, the rod is rotated by a geared drive motor, the dolly moves.
00:34 GuShH you'll have backlash and other problems, which may or may not be an issue
00:34 GargantuaSauce yeah
00:34 GuShH how heavy is your load? just the camera and 200-300grams on top?
00:34 defaultro i think the camera is like 5 -7 lbs
00:34 defaultro plus the dolly which can be modified into a light aluminum
00:36 GargantuaSauce depending on the stepper and screw pitch it's not inconceivable that it could move vertically with that load
00:36 GuShH half inch all-thread, doesn't have to be of a high grade either. at 1/2 you are already looking at overkill, but it allows you to expand onto heavier lenses and whatnot
00:37 defaultro check this out, jump to 0:38, https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.net/projects/542844/video-256914-h264_high.mp4
00:37 GuShH at that point it's all about the gear ratio
00:37 GuShH assuming speed is not a concern
00:37 defaultro what is half inch all-thread? are you still refering to the leadscrews?
00:37 GuShH yes
00:37 defaultro k
00:38 defaultro did you see the video I posted, at 0:38, the camera is going up
00:38 GuShH all-thread is just a brand I think
00:38 defaultro k
00:38 theBear i thought it was more of a nickname
00:38 GuShH I'm pretty sure it's registered
00:38 theBear like here they call it booker rod in building circles
00:38 defaultro the guy use a simple motor
00:38 GuShH I call it threaded rod...
00:39 GuShH that motor is geared
00:39 GuShH fyi.
00:39 defaultro but I am not sure what type of motor the guy used. Do you have any idea what it is?
00:39 defaultro what is geared?
00:39 GuShH see how the shaft is not on center?
00:39 GuShH the motor on the video.
00:39 GuShH if you want power and you don't mind being a butcher, try a cordless drill for parts.
00:40 defaultro ok, can I still move it precisely like how I do now with stepper motor?
00:40 GuShH it's most likely DC brushed with a built in gearbox
00:40 GuShH you can
00:40 defaultro ah
00:40 GuShH they also make steppers with built in gearboxes
00:41 defaultro that's what I'll have to look for rather than me spending hours trying to figure it out
00:41 GuShH and separate reduction drives, but it's a lot more expensive than butchering a consumer product
00:41 defaultro yes, it's fine if it's a little more expensive but i get to move on quickly
00:41 GuShH defaultro: modern cordless drills might all use brushless motors, but they have a driver already in the unit itself, it's just a matter of replacing the potentiometer switch with a signal of your own.
00:42 defaultro ok
00:42 defaultro I think I have a cordless drill in the basement that I can dismantle
00:42 GuShH just a thought
00:42 GuShH hey if it's not good enough you can always put it back together
00:42 defaultro why did you recommend it again? I forgot
00:42 orlok dont undo the gearbox bit, it will likely screw it
00:42 GuShH it's got all the parts you need, you already have it.
00:42 defaultro ok
00:43 GuShH orlok: depends on the make
00:43 orlok they also have the adjustable toruq loading clutch
00:43 orlok torque
00:43 GuShH some are cheap with injected plastic acting as guides for crappy brass bushings, others are cast aluminum with proper bearings
00:43 defaultro the brand is craftsman
00:43 defaultro yes, it's got a torque setting outside
00:44 defaultro now i need to search how I will control it with arduino
00:44 GuShH just saying, the motor and gearbox are pretty neat for this kind of application as long as you don't mind the whine from the driver.
00:44 GuShH well, it's resonating at the windings..
00:44 ShH steals theBear's booze and goes to
00:45 defaultro :)
00:47 GuShH Heh I like the skate wheels on the dolly (video)
00:49 defaultro yup, it's cool
00:49 defaultro so if I use the motor from a cordless drill, it will have a stop?
00:50 defaultro or stronger for dragging the camera from bottom to top?
00:50 theBear foolish fool... i'm on top alert at the moment... and when i finally bump into the fool who stole from me recently, i'm gonna do something he will be aware of until the day he dies.... now is no time to be stealing from me
00:50 GuShH theBear: do they stop brushless by shorting them as well as you'd do with brushed? or is it a negative drive signal of sorts
00:50 defaultro ah, like this one? http://www.robotshop.com/en/geared-bipolar-stepper-motor-3v-555-oz-in.html
00:50 GuShH what did he steal from you?
00:50 defaultro look at it, it's not centered
00:51 defaultro so when it's geared, it has more torque/power?
00:51 GuShH theBear: hey it's not stealing if you replenish the stock later on with more and stronger stuff!
00:51 GuShH defaultro: it can have more or less torque depending on the gear ratio
00:51 defaultro got it
00:52 GuShH you can have more speed for less torque or more torque for less speed
00:52 defaultro ok
00:52 defaultro but can't have both of best worlds on stepper motors correct?
00:52 GuShH just as a manual drive vehicle will stall on 5th at 0km/h but it will move just fine on first
00:52 theBear it is if i run out in the meantime, and i got principles, from the moment he did it, it was already too late to return anything
00:53 GuShH (you -could- milk the clutch if you have enough power to get it to roll, but that's beyond the point)
00:53 any67064803 nah, you can put position feedback on motors to 100's of hp
00:53 theBear milk it eh ? hehehe
00:53 defaultro GuShH: is this strong? maximum torque of 250 kg-cm.
00:53 any67064803 i've seen 1 hp steppers
00:53 GuShH theBear: what do you call it? FONDLING THE CLUTCH?
00:53 theBear riding
00:53 GuShH but you are not technically riding it either
00:54 GuShH easing maybe
00:54 theBear close enough, that's what it gets called, but from now on it's fondling
00:54 GuShH in reality you'd be wearing it out for no good reason.
00:54 theBear well yeah, riding clutch is strictly forbidden, that's what the hot shoe shuffle is for... heel and toe heel and toe
00:55 theBear handbrakes are for sissies
00:55 ShH wants a super
00:55 eBear wants a regular one with wrong side gears so he doesn't fall over when he tries to put it in f
00:55 GuShH so I can super ride myself onto a super tree at super speeds.
00:56 theBear don't put dark thoughts in my head
00:56 GuShH that's what might happen if I get ahold of a 750cc or bigger bike
00:56 GuShH I think over 400cc is on the silly side of things
00:57 GuShH plus older bikes with that kind of engine would most likely have four cylinders with four carbs... think 80s ot early 90s sport bike
00:58 GuShH I bet there's not a single one currently on sale with all 4 carbs perfectly on sync
00:58 ShH sees a lot of "starts but won't idle" b
00:59 defaultro hey folks, what's that circle aluminum part that's connected to the shaft called? http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Newmark-MDI1PRD23C7-STEPPER-MOTOR-With-Gear-box-/00/s/ODY0WDEyOTY=/z/zuoAAOxyNDhSZTdb/$(KGrHqJHJDgFJRy8fC+oBSZTd,sFk!~~60_57.JPG
00:59 orlok heh
00:59 GuShH Some after they've been overhauled, if an engine won't idle after replacing conrods, pistons, rings, gaskets... man there's something wrong with that mechanic let me tell you that much.
00:59 any67064803 timing belt pulley
01:00 any67064803 not saying that is correct term, but it's what people use
01:00 defaultro cool. Thanks!
01:00 GuShH it is
01:00 GuShH cogged belts are often called timing belts anyway
01:00 any67064803 http://stores.ebay.com/Polybelt/Timing-Pulleys-/_i.html?rt=nc&_fsub=16000550&_sid=13369403&_sticky=1&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1
01:00 GuShH as they're not meant to slip under the right tension
01:00 defaultro I hope I can find the right inner diameter for the geared steppe motor I am going to buy
01:00 GuShH so they can keep timing...
01:00 any67064803 me too
01:00 theBear steppers have fairly standard sized shafts
01:01 orlok GuShH: and they should be replacing all of the standard consumables first anyway
01:01 GuShH defaultro: this is when a mill and a lathe comes to play!
01:01 defaultro got it
01:01 theBear and commonly drive wheels just like that
01:01 any67064803 it's real irritating all the pics are the same, and not of the item for sale
01:01 defaultro mill lathe? looking in google, I don't know what it is :)
01:01 GuShH orlok: I'd start with the carbs!
01:01 defaultro is this the one? http://cfnewsads.thomasnet.com/images/large/007/7385.jpg
01:01 orlok GuShH: i'd say ignition
01:01 GuShH recently rebuilt an rm125 carbie, was fun. bike runs like new
01:01 GuShH orlok: that's a given
01:02 any67064803 https://www.google.com/search?q=mill+lathe&client=firefox-a&hs=GNO&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=s0tvUtbCBYaikQfvrIDQAQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1093&bih=561&dpr=0.9
01:02 GuShH first thing I replaced, apart from the old gas mix
01:02 defaultro so with mill lathe, I will be able to make my own timing belt pulley?
01:02 any67064803 yeas
01:02 GuShH the carb would overflow once the gas was opened...
01:02 orlok i had a combination of clogged fuel filter and air filter
01:02 GuShH defaultro: yes and no
01:02 theBear mill is different to lathe
01:02 orlok great economy, shame about needing to drive up hills
01:02 defaultro omg, I need this machine then
01:02 defaultro i'll save up for it
01:02 defaultro :D
01:02 GuShH add just as much cost in tooling, and a couple months of training at least
01:02 defaultro why no GuShH
01:02 defaultro got it
01:03 GuShH plus the raw materials, which you need to source.
01:03 defaultro ah, that's true
01:03 theBear just get one that fits
01:03 GuShH and you'll find most places won't just sell you a tiny chunk of aluminum heh
01:03 theBear it's easy
01:03 GuShH plus a milling machine with a dividing head and the milling attachments won't be cheap and you'll need the space for it!
01:04 GuShH also, machining any metal takes a long time in general.
01:04 GuShH it's as easy as 1-2-theBear!
01:05 GuShH defaultro: if it's a one-off, just buy the parts.
01:05 theBear yeah baby now, 1 2 me
01:05 theBear err, a b me
01:05 theBear dammit
01:05 defaultro will do
01:05 GuShH I got a lathe because some of the things I want are non existent where I live, that's all.
01:06 GuShH kittens did a number on my 4 jaw chuck... I'm still twitching.
01:06 GuShH left it wrapped in oiled paper and bubble wrap on the floor, they used it as a toilet.
01:06 theBear if i wanted one in a hurry i think it'd come from holland, but at least i'd know it fits
01:06 GuShH seems you could use cat piss to strip a car's paint, based on how much oxide the chuck got in so little time
01:07 GuShH a chuck I never got to use thus far. how good am I, I didn't hurt a single kitten for it.
01:08 GuShH Of course that's because they won't be staying, otherwise discipline would be in order.
01:10 GuShH heh glow in the dark PLA for printing...
01:10 GuShH that's new for me
01:10 GuShH defaultro: speaking of 3d printers, look at suppliers for them as they use all this stuff you're looking for
01:11 defaultro sweeet
01:11 defaultro I'll do that
01:11 GuShH for instance a Gt2 pulley and belt kit might be available
01:11 defaultro great idea!
01:11 defaultro cool ;)
01:11 defaultro thanks bro
01:12 GuShH of course some are plain ripoff reseller weasels like these guys http://openbuildspartstore.com/gt2-2mm-aluminum-timing-pulley-20/
01:14 defaultro looking
01:15 defaultro those guys aren't good you mean?
01:24 any67064803 hmm, Tiggr already had a folder on Vo Nguyen Giap
01:26 GuShH defaultro: they resell chinese crap, too expensive.
01:26 GuShH but at least you can look up the names of parts and use them as a reference for ebay and other sites.
01:26 defaultro ah, thanksf for letting me know
01:26 defaultro yup
01:30 defaultro I've also seen other timing belt pulley with bigger teeth. What is it called?
01:30 defaultro it's not GT2 anymore right?
01:30 any67064803 bigger teeth? maybe it was a sprocket?
01:31 any67064803 http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/5-0l-tech/34511d1192178972-1987-mustang-timing-chain-install-dscf0964.jpg
01:34 any67064803 http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00HvZTqsPKrSou/Motorcycle-Timing-Chain-Inverted-Tooth-Chain-.jpg
01:36 any67064803 http://www.boschrexroth-us.com/country_units/america/united_states/sub_websites/brus_dcp/Products/Tooth_Chain/a_images/toothchn.jpg
01:36 any67064803 http://www.iwis.de/uploads/pics/gk-bolzengelenk_05.jpg
01:36 any67064803 http://chain-guide.com/applications/1-6-3-inverted-tooth-chain.html
01:47 any67064803 Or you could make your own PVC air cannon that could shoot out candy, flour, scary flying Halloween objectiles or whatever the heck you want to freak out (and maybe accidentally hurt?) anybody who dares come your way.
01:49 defaultro oops, I didn't see there were new posts here
01:49 defaultro thanks any67064803 , looking at it now
01:50 defaultro hehehe :D
01:53 GuShH defaultro: gt2, 3, 5 are standards
01:53 GuShH the number is simply the pitch in millimeters
01:53 GuShH so 2 3 and 5mm pitch
01:53 GuShH err standard*, not standards heh
01:54 defaultro ok
01:54 defaultro the one on my video is 2mm pitch
01:54 GuShH some more info http://www.gates.com/europe/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=20134_E2_POWERGRIP_GT32.pdf&folder=brochure&location_id=14795
01:54 any67064803 you said BIGGER teeth
01:54 any67064803 2mm is very small
01:55 any67064803 [01:14] <defaultro> I've also seen other timing belt pulley with bigger teeth. What is it called?
01:55 defaultro i was asking earlier what bigger teeth would be called
01:55 GuShH nevermind "any67064803" she's got more issues than I'll ever have...
01:55 defaultro i just described what I got from my dot matrix printer
01:55 defaultro :D
01:55 any67064803 oh
01:56 GuShH gt2 and such are sold at almost any length you want, that's why I mentioned them
01:56 GuShH (they're common)
01:56 GuShH you can always use two in parallel if you need to carry a heavier load, or go for a bigger belt system... or a leadscrew
01:57 defaultro ok
01:57 defaultro I think I'll go with bigger belt
01:58 any67064803 i gave you ebay link for XL037 belt and pullies
01:59 any67064803 i found rue some timing sets in China, if i could get him to make his own *big* pulleys, i could save him money on the belt and small pulleys
02:02 defaultro yup, I saw it
04:49 theBear http://i.imgur.com/VhOR7.jpg
06:23 Tom_itx :)
06:24 theBear that's my kind of 'troll' image... looks perfectly authentic and convincing, and only starts to give hints as you get closer to the end
06:35 theBear hmm, think it was this channel... clothes peg tensioner for toothed belt IS kinda cool in a hacky way
06:43 Triffid_Hunter I had one of those on my 3d printer.. was only good at low speeds, above 50mm/s or so the peg actually introduced lash
06:44 theBear mmm, that makes sense i spose
06:52 Triffid_Hunter so quite adequate to print an adjustable clamp, but not for long term use
14:44 Gman32 Any EE/CompE guys around?
15:01 GuShH Gman32: for you? no!
15:01 Gman32 baaaahhh
15:03 GuShH Gman32: it's simpler to just ask and wait for someone to answer
15:04 Gman32 Oh, I'm trying to outsource a project for BTC or $$
15:05 GuShH I'm sure a few people would be interested if you gave out the specific details
15:05 GuShH Now if you come with NDA nonsense you might get shot or worse!
15:05 Gman32 Just basic ECE questions and maybe some Verilog
15:08 GargantuaSauce i accept sexual favours only
15:08 GuShH Hah
15:08 Gman32 that can...be arranged
15:08 ShH fr
15:16 katsmeow-afk not enough hp for one boat : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/183289187/seasteading/ramform-rubber-boat-broad-stern.jpg
15:34 katsmeow-afk when i arrive at the store, park my car, i ENTER the store to shop, and when done shopping i ENTER the parking lot where my car is,,, wtf is there an EXIT door for?
15:35 katsmeow-afk Today, ARM is announcing two new GPU core products -- the Mali-T760 and the Mali-T720. The T760 is the upper-end part, that's aimed at more powerful devices, while the T720 is meant for smaller phones, cheaper products, and systems that require a decent GPU, but don't have the power budget or price point to pack in a high-end part.
15:36 katsmeow-afk http://hothardware.com/News/ARMs-New-MaliT760-GPU-Sets-Speed-Efficiency-Records-/
15:43 LoRez every time you enter one space, you exit another.
15:44 katsmeow-afk so i should use both doors?
15:46 LoRez huh?
15:48 katsmeow-afk like the employee yelling thru the glass that i can't be in there, when i plainly was in there, i even showed him how, and he looked at me oddly and said he was going to get the police
15:48 katsmeow-afk i figured that was why the place was losing money, what with employees going around starting fights with customers
15:49 katsmeow-afk man was denying the obvious reality that i was indeed in there
15:49 katsmeow-afk i didn't want to talk to him again, so i entered the next exhibit, figured he was too stupid to find me again
15:50 katsmeow-afk ;-)
15:57 tsmeow-afk enters the build
15:58 tsmeow-afk enters the shoe d
15:58 tsmeow-afk has not left the buil
15:58 tsmeow-afk can be in two places at once
20:25 defaultro hey folks, is it bad for stepper motors to get hot?
20:25 Duzz like warm or hot?
20:26 defaultro i think it's hot
20:27 defaultro i'm driving it with 12v power adapter. Is it possible that this stepper motor is not 12 v? I just got it from an old dot matrix printer
20:27 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: it's normal for them to get quite warm. try to avoid it going above 80c
20:27 defaultro i mean, it gets hot since I'm holding it
20:28 Triffid_Hunter for reference, it will burn you (slowly) at 45c
20:28 Faek If you can hold it i doubt it's 80C
20:28 defaultro i think i was able to hold it for 5 seconds then i released it
20:28 defaultro it was hot
20:28 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: 5 seconds is probably about 60c
20:28 theBear dude, at least wait a bit before asking in a different channel
20:29 defaultro :)
20:29 defaultro sorry
20:29 defaultro I was worried since it was only running for like 30 seconds
20:29 defaultro i angled my camera rail at about 80 degrees
20:29 theBear hmmm, 30 seconds isn't long... you sure it's being driven properly ?
20:29 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: use servos if it's a problem.. servos only take power when they're actually doing something whereas steppers take power all the time
20:30 defaultro exactly theBear , that's why i was worried
20:30 defaultro sorry
20:30 defaultro i was wrong theBear
20:30 defaultro i think it was about 2minutes +
20:30 defaultro because I was taking video of it too
20:30 theBear you got a way to confirm current draw or a schematic or able to double-check your wiring ?
20:30 Triffid_Hunter 2 minutes shouldn't be far off equilibrium if it's a tin can.. proper nema stepper may take longer though
20:30 theBear mmm, 2minutes not so worrying... that's probably just enough time for it to get to a more or less steady temp
20:31 theBear how big did you end up going ? i don't know numbers, but rough body dimensions will do
20:31 defaultro but when I do timelapse, it usually completes at 2.5 hours
20:31 defaultro so Triffid_Hunter , could it possible be that this motor I got from a dot matrix printer isn't a 12v motor?
20:32 defaultro I didn't get your question theBear
20:32 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: I would say that it's more likely that it's simply designed to run hot. you can feed it a lower voltage if you want it cooler, but it will also be weaker
20:32 theBear the idea is at some point after 30 seconds and well before 2.5 hours it'll reach a steady state where everything has been 'warmed up' physically and any heat you put in via electrical power won't heat it anymore due to mounting/surroundings taking the heat away
20:32 defaultro Triffid_Hunter: I can try my 6v battery later
20:33 theBear 6v will likely not be enough to move it, or if it is it'll be VERY weak
20:33 defaultro but I am really happy because I am able to do really steep angle
20:33 defaultro ok
20:33 defaultro but Triffid_Hunter , using my old code, it never run hot for 18 hours
20:33 defaultro but I am not able to angle it, keeps sliding
20:34 theBear there shouldn't be any permanent damage until you get to at least 1st degree burn territory, i've got my lovely little non-contact thermometer for this kinda thing, but if i didn't have it handy i'd probably let it go a bit longer and see what i see
20:34 defaultro now using the Stepper.h that comes with ARduino, I can do it and i'm very happy. However, motor gets hot
20:34 theBear wait, same motor/supply and old code ran cold ?
20:34 theBear that sounds suspicious
20:34 Triffid_Hunter cold, but weaker? sounds like it was being chopped
20:34 defaultro yes, old code run well but it wouldn't hold my camera slider well on an angle
20:34 theBear what is the difference ? are you sure that stepper.h lib you used is the right kind of drive for this motor, and/or set right ?
20:34 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: welcome to engineering. you want it hot but strong, or cold but weak?
20:35 defaultro theBear: the description inside Stepper motor is for unipolar 4 wire
20:35 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: you could search for a sweet spot in the middle, but you might find it's warm but still too weak.. next option is a larger motor
20:35 defaultro Triffid_Hunter: as much as possible, hold it well but reduce hot on the motor
20:35 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: no such thing as unipolar 4-wire. unipolar has 5,6 or 8 wires
20:36 Triffid_Hunter 4-wire is bipolar only
20:36 defaultro yes Triffid_Hunter , so do you agreee that this motor isn't a 12v motor?
20:36 defaultro sorry, mine is 6 wire
20:36 defaultro 4 coils and 2 something
20:36 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: it's usually written on the motor
20:36 theBear two commons
20:36 defaultro tons of people help me before but they couldn't find any info on the motor
20:37 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: 6 wire is two center-tapped coils. the center taps go to +ve, you pull one of the two ends to ground to activate that coil. pull the other end to activate it the other way around
20:37 defaultro i can try taking a pic again of the writings on the motor
20:37 defaultro yes, the center taps are on the positive
20:37 theBear so is the lib suited/set to drive such a motor ? cos if it's set for a different one you could well be trying very hard to cook your drivers or the motor itself
20:37 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Xn6kyI4EcFw/TmvHjwL0QOI/AAAAAAAAA0E/qCsSMWxHeXk/s1600/Unipolar_BD.jpg
20:37 defaultro yep, that's how I have it wired
20:38 defaultro i am using tip122
20:38 defaultro the coil connects to Collector, the middle pin of tip122
20:38 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: for best results, put a constant current driver on each center tap. then dial the current to a point where the motor doesn't get too hot
20:38 Triffid_Hunter having one cc driver per center tap allows you to half step the motor
20:38 defaultro what is "constant current driver"?
20:39 defaultro how do I connect it?
20:39 defaultro can I buy it at RadioShack?
20:40 defaultro also, when the motor was hot, i touched tip122 and it was still cold
20:40 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: http://www.opencircuits.com/images/thumb/6/61/Cc_limit.png/450px-Cc_limit.png
20:40 defaultro i'll do my best to understand the drawing :)
20:40 defaultro i'm still new electronics
20:41 defaultro what's that with the wires
20:41 defaultro is it a tip?
20:41 defaultro ooops, what's that with three wires
20:41 defaultro 2N3565
20:41 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: the transistors?
20:41 Triffid_Hunter they're transistors
20:42 Triffid_Hunter doesn't really matter which sort you use, tip122 should be fine. the one marked Q1 will get hot, bolt it to a heatsink of some sort
20:42 Triffid_Hunter make sure to use proper mounting kit, don't want to short them to the heatsink
20:43 defaultro im back
20:44 defaultro so Q1 is a transistor?
20:44 defaultro the number is similar to my opto isolator that i use for triggering my camera's shutter, 4N35
20:45 defaultro honestly, i have never seen how to add heatsink to a part
20:45 defaultro and how it looks like
20:53 defaultro you're right theBear , i tried 6v and it wouldn't go up, lol
20:57 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdImag/34121.jpg and http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/image/cache/data/rapid/to220-mounting-kit-500x500.jpg
20:57 defaultro cool
20:58 defaultro what is the second picture for?
20:59 defaultro i'm looking at the first image now. What is that rectangular thing under the transistor?
20:59 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: usually mica
20:59 Triffid_Hunter lets heat through but not electricity
20:59 defaultro oh, cool
21:00 defaultro so mica is the mounting kit?
21:00 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: also a grommet to prevent the screw touching the tab
21:00 defaultro k
21:00 Triffid_Hunter for best results, get some heatsink paste as well.. commonly sold at computer shops for CPU heatsinks
21:01 defaultro one sec, i'll look for a real picture since I'm having a little problem understanding the drawing
21:01 defaultro yes. i have heatsink paste
21:02 defaultro let's go back to this image, http://www.opencircuits.com/images/thumb/6/61/Cc_limit.png/450px-Cc_limit.png
21:02 defaultro you told me earlier to put cc driver in each center taps
21:02 defaultro mine is color black and white
21:02 defaultro and are currently connected to the positive
21:03 defaultro now, when I introduce the cc driver, how do I connect one center tap to the cc driver? Do I connect the end of center tap wire to the input of cc driver? However, what is VPLUS_VDD1, what is the connection to this?
21:06 defaultro btw, I took a picture of my stepper motor. http://neil.privatedns.org/steppermotor.jpg
21:14 defaultro also, did I get it right? http://neil.privatedns.org/heatsink.png
21:17 Triffid_Hunter defaultro: the bit at the bottom is the heatsink...
21:26 defaultro so my labeling is wrong?
21:27 tsmeow-afk suggests you look up every word you use, like "heats
21:28 katsmeow-afk you are the first human in here who did not know what a heatsink is
21:28 defaultro when I see the word heatsink, my mind tells me it's the aluminum thing
21:29 katsmeow-afk and what does google and wikipedia and newark tell you?
21:29 defaultro I'm a bit confused because the heatsink I know is similar to the one we put on top of our cpu
21:29 katsmeow-afk what do any of then tell you about ow to mount a transistor?
21:30 defaultro i was actrually thinking of a different orientation
21:30 defaultro transistor has a metal and I was thinking that I will attach the heatsink to that metal
21:30 katsmeow-afk so you think a heatsink must be held a certain way, and fastened a certain way
21:30 defaultro yes
21:30 tsmeow-afk s
21:30 defaultro and the image I saw was different from what was in my head
21:30 defaultro that's why i got confused
21:31 defaultro in cpu, i only put paste then put the heatsink on top
21:31 defaultro i got confused when i was told mica
21:31 defaultro i've never used it
21:31 defaultro i learned that it allows heat but not electricity. It's an insulator
21:31 katsmeow-afk https://www.google.com/search?q=heatsink&client=firefox-a&hs=0D2&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=w2twUqrBLtSusAT3sIDgDw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ
21:31 katsmeow-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_sink
21:31 defaultro k, looking
21:32 defaultro exactly, look at those aluminum, they are mounted on top of the cpu
21:32 defaultro looking at the second link now
21:33 katsmeow-afk not all of them
21:33 katsmeow-afk look at the heatsinks in http://designerthinking.com/benchpsu.html
21:34 defaultro ok
21:34 katsmeow-afk there's like 6 different sinks there
21:34 defaultro i'm only aware of heatsink in cpus
21:35 defaultro ok. It's my first time I've seen it. I didn't learn this in my computer science course but would love to learn it now
21:35 katsmeow-afk heatsinks have been used forever before there were cpus
21:36 katsmeow-afk heatsinks were even used on vacuum tubes
21:36 defaultro I understand but it wasn't my field
21:36 defaultro i'm very new to this but really willing to learn
21:36 katsmeow-afk heatsinks were used on hydraulics, they are used on your car engine (the radiator, which may also be the heatsink for the transmission), MW-sized power transformers
21:37 defaultro is this a good picture of transistor and heatsink? http://www.edinformatics.com/inventions_inventors/250px-High_power_transistor.jpg
21:37 katsmeow-afk a heatsink on a motor : http://www.trinityrc.net/shop/image/cache/data/sales/Heatsink%20black-500x500.jpg
21:37 defaultro I'm going to grab one TIP122 now
21:38 katsmeow-afk yes
21:38 defaultro looking
21:38 katsmeow-afk diode bridge blocks on heatsinks : http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/s/IMG_1043s.jpg
21:39 defaultro now, i don't understand the image
21:39 katsmeow-afk TIP35 and TIP36 on a heatsink : http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2892m.jpg
21:39 katsmeow-afk what is to not understand?
21:39 defaultro wow, that's very clear
21:39 defaultro so now, the BCE on tip is on air
21:40 defaultro I was thinking that TIP pins are soldered on PBC
21:40 defaultro this one, http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/s/IMG_1043s.jpg I'm having a hardtime understand what image it is
21:40 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2952m.jpg <<== two TO-220 on TWO heatsinks
21:40 defaultro what is TO-220?
21:41 katsmeow-afk Triffid_Hunter, hold me up, please
21:41 defaultro oh, Ithink I got it now. Correct me please. The heatsink mounted on the transistor will be above the tip when it's soldered to the pcb
21:41 katsmeow-afk defaultro , just what is your field?
21:41 defaultro computer science
21:41 defaultro all programming
21:42 katsmeow-afk "above the tip" ?
21:42 defaultro tip122
21:42 defaultro just like this, http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2952m.jpg
21:42 katsmeow-afk why would it be above it?
21:42 defaultro let me draw to you what I mean
21:42 defaultro i'll be wuick
21:42 defaultro quick
21:42 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2952m.jpg has two transistors and two heatsinks, one bolt holding them together
21:43 defaultro yup, I got that
21:43 defaultro i mean, when we solder the pins of the transistor to the pcb, the heatsink will be above
21:43 katsmeow-afk why would it be above?
21:43 defaultro just the orientation
21:44 defaultro that's why I want to draw it
21:44 defaultro one sec
21:44 katsmeow-afk in fact, it isn't,, there is no place in that project where any heatsink is above the diode or transistor on it
21:45 defaultro uploading now
21:45 katsmeow-afk the http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2952m.jpg it put with 4 otehr such , http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2961m.jpg and then laid on it's side in http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2958m.jpg
21:46 katsmeow-afk look how the sinks are set in http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2945m.jpg
21:46 defaultro http://neil.privatedns.org/heatsink2.png
21:46 defaultro that's how I am understanding it
21:47 defaultro that's basing it from http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2952m.jpg
21:48 katsmeow-afk except i am laying it down , as shown in every pic : http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2959m.jpg
21:48 defaultro so looks like I got it right
21:48 defaultro yeah
21:48 defaultro so I got it right, correct?
21:49 katsmeow-afk i can't do this as well as Triffid_Hunter
21:49 defaultro that's why I said, when transistor is soldered to the pcb, the heatsink will be above. I'm always think of pcb as parallel to the floor
21:49 defaultro but I get it now
21:49 katsmeow-afk the heatsink will not be above the traisitor in almost anything i make
21:50 defaultro ok
21:50 defaultro do you put heatsink paste in between the transistor and heatsink?
21:50 katsmeow-afk yes, always
21:50 defaultro k
21:51 katsmeow-afk however, you may or may not want or need a mica or plastic insulator
21:51 defaultro got it
21:51 defaultro that's what got me confused
21:51 defaultro I think that mica goes in between the transistor and the heatsink just like the heatsink paste. Am I correct?
21:52 katsmeow-afk xistor-dope-mica-dope-heatsink
21:52 katsmeow-afk note if you need the mica insulator, you also need insulating shoulder washers on the screw you use
21:52 defaultro ok, I'll just use heatsink paste instead
21:53 defaultro also, I got confused when Trif said to mount the 2n3565 to a heatsink
21:53 katsmeow-afk you do not know if you need the mica ornot?
21:53 defaultro when I look at 2n3565, i didn't see a metal
21:53 katsmeow-afk " a metal " ?
21:53 defaultro i know mica, it;s an insulator
21:53 defaultro yeah
21:53 defaultro one sec
21:54 defaultro look at this, http://www.wellgainelectronics.com/ProductImages/transistors/FSC%20TRANSISTOR%202N3565%20465%20W1.JPG
21:54 defaultro how am I going to put heatsink on that
21:54 katsmeow-afk you almost don't, you keep power diss below 1/10 watt
21:54 defaultro I'm trying to understand Triff's schematic here, http://www.opencircuits.com/images/thumb/6/61/Cc_limit.png/450px-Cc_limit.png
21:54 katsmeow-afk however, you CAN heatsink those
21:55 defaultro but he said they get hot and i should mount it to a heatsink
21:55 defaultro maybe you can help me with that schematic
21:56 katsmeow-afk if those get hot, you need a different package, or different circuit, but i am uploading a way to heatsink those
21:56 defaultro he told me to put that in each center taps of my stepper motor
21:58 defaultro because what we were trying to troubleshoot earlier is the stepper motor getting hot when continiuosly energiizing it
22:01 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/DSCF2191e.jpg <<== two transisytors like your's, in a heatsink
22:02 katsmeow-afk or http://www.bgmicro.com/to-5-top-hat-heat-sink.aspx
22:03 katsmeow-afk http://www.surplussales.com/Images/Heatsinks/Individual/hsk-2211b.jpg
22:03 katsmeow-afk http://www.surplussales.com/Images/Heatsinks/Individual/hsk-2205a.jpg
22:03 defaultro looking
22:03 katsmeow-afk http://www.surplussales.com/Images/Heatsinks/Individual/hsk-txb2p-019-028b.jpg
22:03 katsmeow-afk http://www.surplussales.com/Images/Heatsinks/Individual/hsk-014-327.jpg
22:04 katsmeow-afk http://www.surplussales.com/Images/Heatsinks/Individual/hsk-207cb.jpg
22:04 katsmeow-afk http://www.surplussales.com/Images/Heatsinks/Individual/col-352-9619-020.jpg
22:04 defaultro ah, cool, I like the first picture. The heatsink clamped the 2n3565 transistor :D
22:04 defaultro tons of different design :)
22:04 katsmeow-afk you see i found 8 urls to show how to heatsink that one stule, it works on TO-92 also
22:04 katsmeow-afk yeas
22:05 defaultro that means, when I design a pcb, I have to consider spacing for heatsinks
22:05 katsmeow-afk if you need them
22:05 defaultro k
22:06 defaultro going back to http://www.opencircuits.com/images/thumb/6/61/Cc_limit.png/450px-Cc_limit.png
22:07 defaultro I learned that my tip122 and his 2N3565 on his diagram are both transistors
22:07 defaultro when I was looking at the datasheet, it also has BCE
22:07 defaultro base, collector, emitter
22:07 defaultro this is the picture that was given to me before, http://www.ecs.umass.edu/ece/m5/images/TIP122_transistor_schematic_L.jpg
22:07 defaultro that's the reason I used tip122
22:08 defaultro the symbol for the transistor on my drawing and his drawing are the same
22:08 robotustra defaultro ты русишь,
22:08 robotustra ?
22:08 defaultro now, I'm thinking, do I really need to still add it since I already have the tip122s on the coils of my stepper motor
22:08 defaultro huh?
22:09 robotustra defaultro: where are you from?
22:09 defaultro not sure what character that is robotustra
22:09 defaultro Chicago
22:09 robotustra ok
22:09 defaultro what are those symbols?
22:09 defaultro lol, you rusish
22:09 defaultro i used google translate, hahaha
22:10 katsmeow-afk how to cool a 35amp diode bridge block : http://designerthinking.com/images/DSCF1807m.jpg
22:10 defaultro no, I am not a russian
22:10 defaultro looking
22:10 robotustra I asked whether you russian or not
22:10 robotustra ok
22:10 defaultro yes, that's what I found in google translate :)
22:10 defaultro i highlighted the text you posted
22:10 defaultro why did you think i was russian?
22:11 robotustra I read " it also has BCE"
22:11 defaultro yup. What makes me russian?
22:11 robotustra "BCE" in russain "ALL"
22:11 defaultro oh ok :D
22:11 defaultro after that I wrote, base, collector and emitter
22:11 robotustra ok
22:11 robotustra but I didn't read it
22:11 defaultro got it :)
22:12 defaultro in my unipolar stepper motor, it has 6 wires, 4 for coils and 2 for center taps
22:13 robotustra do you have driver for it?
22:13 defaultro this is what he wrote earlier: Triffid_Hunter: defaultro: for best results, put a constant current driver on each center tap. then dial the current to a point where the motor doesn't get too hot
22:13 defaultro I made my own driver using tip122
22:14 defaultro i am using 4 tip122 for each coil
22:14 defaultro output on android goes to B, the coil wire from the stepper motor goes to C, and E of Tip122 goes to GND
22:15 defaultro oops, output on Arduino, lol
22:15 katsmeow-afk yeas
22:15 defaultro so Arduino -> 1k resistor -> B pin of TIP122
22:15 robotustra I also became arduino guy unexpectedly
22:15 katsmeow-afk you can do that too
22:15 defaultro ok
22:16 katsmeow-afk or 2.2k, or etc,, the TIP122 has a lot of gain
22:16 defaultro k
22:16 katsmeow-afk you know what gain is, and why it matters?
22:16 defaultro but i got confused when Triffid said to put a cc driver on each center tap
22:16 defaultro i think it lowers the voltage?
22:17 katsmeow-afk well, i have a feeling if you can't mount and wire up a transistor, you can't do a current source anyhow
22:17 tsmeow-afk slaps defau
22:17 defaultro i was able to wire my tip122 with stepper motor
22:17 katsmeow-afk oops, sorry
22:17 defaultro :)
22:18 defaultro here it is in action, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A95uCHp5Q7Q
22:18 defaultro you'll see the 4 tip122s
22:18 katsmeow-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_source
22:18 katsmeow-afk altho only the last few images on that page are worth a darn
22:18 robotustra defaultro how are you going to control your stepper?
22:18 defaultro using arduino
22:19 robotustra 4 wires?
22:19 katsmeow-afk i won't see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A95uCHp5Q7Q it keeps crashing, all youtube crash
22:19 defaultro it's working great
22:19 defaultro 4 wires to the stepper motor
22:19 robotustra toggling 4 wires?
22:19 defaultro i just used Stepper library from arduino
22:19 defaultro really simple command
22:19 katsmeow-afk umm, if the thing is working great, why are we having this few HOURS of discusson about it?
22:19 robotustra there are already ready to use stepper motor drivers
22:20 robotustra 1 pin is direction and 1 pin is the step
22:20 defaultro katsmeow-afk: because when I used stepper motor library, i was able to hold the camera dolly on a very steep angle and I really like that feature. However, motor was getting very hot
22:20 defaultro so Triffid_Hunter told me to put cc driver on the center taps
22:20 robotustra put voltage regulator
22:20 defaultro that's when he gave me the diagram
22:21 defaultro voltage regulator?
22:21 defaultro is it something i can install on the bread board?
22:21 defaultro robotustra: I have to tell you upfront that my field is computer science but willing to learn electronics
22:22 robotustra http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1202
22:22 defaultro I've been learning a lot. Today, I learned how to install heatsinks
22:22 defaultro :)
22:22 defaultro looking
22:22 robotustra it doesn't mean that you have to stuck at simple things
22:22 defaultro so just scrap what I did?
22:22 katsmeow-afk umm, use the current source approach, not the voltage regulator, reason: the higher the voltage is, the faster the servo gets current thru it to make torque,, but you can limit the current
22:23 robotustra if you want to play more - it's your decision
22:23 defaultro however katsmeow-afk , I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how to wire them
22:23 katsmeow-afk Tom manage to make a wonderful current limited 70v(?) servo driver for his CNC mill
22:23 defaultro i like to try cc driver
22:23 robotustra if you just want to make it working - this way is simpler
22:24 defaultro I was also thinking that the motor is not 12v
22:24 defaultro I am thinking to buy a 12v stepper motor
22:24 defaultro but before I do that, I want to experiment on the cc driver
22:24 defaultro this one, http://www.opencircuits.com/images/thumb/6/61/Cc_limit.png/450px-Cc_limit.png
22:25 robotustra if you are new in electronics - than of cause you have to burn some transistors
22:25 defaultro i agree :)
22:25 defaultro it's ok, i can buy more
22:27 robotustra One thing you should know - you have just understand how it works, not necessary to solder everything on your own
22:27 robotustra it's just a matter of time
22:28 robotustra sometimes it's just faster to assemble from "blocks"
22:28 robotustra DC-DC converters, stepperdrivers, etc etc
22:28 robotustra power supplies
22:29 defaultro I'm drawing something
22:33 katsmeow-afk i do not recommend darlingtons in a current source unless it is the pass transistor and it's got an opamp driving it, darlingtons are too "soft" on regulation
22:34 katsmeow-afk but i'd also use at least a TO-220 on a motor circuit, or a TO-226 or TO-3P or those sizes and a heatsink
22:35 robotustra mosfets
22:37 defaultro is this correct?
22:37 defaultro http://neil.privatedns.org/450px-Cc_limit.png
22:37 defaultro Triffid_Hunter: told me to put cc driver on center taps
22:38 katsmeow-afk i would laugh if that wasn't so sad
22:38 defaultro so my wiring is wrong?
22:38 katsmeow-afk yeas, but you had to ask
22:39 katsmeow-afk so you didn't study the url you just gave me minutes ago
22:39 defaultro it's ok, that's how I will learn ;)
22:39 defaultro i did
22:39 defaultro and that's how I understood how he said it
22:39 defaultro i was guessing
22:39 defaultro i was trying to mimic how I connected arduino to the stepper motor coil via the tip122
22:40 katsmeow-afk yea.................... so what is the "load" on the cc circuits?
22:41 defaultro not really sure how to calculate it
22:41 defaultro but if input was 5v, so 5v/1k transistor
22:41 defaultro after it passes the transistor, I don't know anymore
22:41 katsmeow-afk no, i man, there is a wire labled "load" on your schematic,, what is it?
22:42 defaultro oh, 12v from my power adapter
22:42 robotustra defaultro: do you understand how transistor works?
22:42 katsmeow-afk you will connect your power adapter to where it says "load", and connect the motor to where it says "input" ? WHY?
22:43 defaultro that's why I put + sign which means the + on my breadboard which connects to the 12v power adapter
22:43 katsmeow-afk then you SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO do not understand the circuit
22:43 defaultro because I was thinking that the input is for center tap wire
22:43 defaultro no, I do not. I was guessting
22:43 defaultro guessing
22:44 defaultro I asked him earlier but he left
22:44 katsmeow-afk the MOTOR is the LOAD
22:44 katsmeow-afk he was VERY frustrated
22:44 defaultro oh
22:44 defaultro k
22:44 defaultro he didn't know i was compsci
22:45 defaultro now, what is supposed to be connected to input on his diagram then?
22:45 robotustra defaultro: read about bipolar transistor and how it should be connected
22:45 katsmeow-afk want a much simpler current limiter? with a written explaination you can read and re-read tilly ou understand?
22:45 defaultro will do
22:45 katsmeow-afk http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/current.html#linear
22:45 defaultro looking
22:46 katsmeow-afk he uses ONE pnp transistor,, in Fig 4.3 , you are using the centertapped disgram on the LEFT
22:47 defaultro k
22:48 robotustra defaultro: http://www.sentex.ca/~mec1995/tutorial/xtor/xtor1/xtor1.html
22:48 robotustra http://www.sentex.ca/~mec1995/tutorial/xtor/xtor2/xtor2.html
22:49 defaultro information overload for the capacity of my skills :)
22:49 robotustra read these tho pages and think for a week before you continue
22:49 robotustra feel free to ask stupid questions here
22:50 robotustra anyway, you have to start from something
22:50 defaultro k
22:50 robotustra do you know Ohm law?
22:50 katsmeow-afk current limiters, or sources, are used in almost everything, you should figure out how the simple one works, and why it would be used
22:50 defaultro I have heard of it but not really that familar
22:51 robotustra ok, so, in what units current is mesured?
22:52 katsmeow-afk in *almost* every audio power amp i have seen, the main gain stage is a controlled current source on (-) with a resistor up to (+) , or vice versa
22:53 robotustra so, may be it's better to start from resistors and capacitors
22:53 robotustra and diods
22:54 defaultro sorry i was reading the link katsmeow-afk gave to me
22:54 defaultro i think it's amperage?
22:54 robotustra ep
22:55 defaultro ep?
22:55 robotustra yep
22:55 defaultro what is ep
22:55 defaultro or just typo error
22:55 defaultro should have been yep instead of ep
22:55 robotustra do you know the connection between voltage, current and resistance?
22:55 robotustra typo
22:56 defaultro oh ok :D
22:56 defaultro i do not
22:56 katsmeow-afk for an example, on http://sound.westhost.com/project03.htm Fig 1 , there's a BD139 in the bottom half of the schematic, middle of the page, is a current source modulated by one of the input transistors
22:56 defaultro modulated meaning reduced?
22:57 robotustra no
22:57 robotustra controlling
22:57 katsmeow-afk oh dog
22:57 katsmeow-afk [21:11] * katsmeow-afk suggests you look up every word you use, like "heatsink"
22:57 defaultro :D
22:57 robotustra make it bigger and smaller
22:57 defaultro sorry bro
22:58 katsmeow-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation
22:58 tsmeow-afk is not a
22:58 tsmeow-afk is a s
22:58 defaultro oh no, I'm so sorry
22:58 defaultro :)
22:59 robotustra so, defaultro: if you take a resistor, and run a current through it, the voltage on the pins of the resistors will be proportional to the current value and to the value of resistor
22:59 robotustra V = R*I
22:59 robotustra R - resistance
22:59 defaultro hmm
22:59 robotustra I = current
22:59 robotustra V - voltage
23:00 robotustra now think 1 night about it
23:00 defaultro here is what I am seeing when using my voltmeter
23:00 defaultro when there was no resistor, the voltage i was seeing was 5v
23:00 defaultro when I added a resitstor, it became, 0.0125 something
23:00 katsmeow-afk i dunno where your voltmeter is connected
23:01 defaultro it is on DC
23:01 katsmeow-afk dc where?
23:01 defaultro looking
23:01 defaultro 20
23:01 defaultro it's labeled as DCV
23:01 robotustra hmm, defaultro, you know about electricity not much than my 5 y.o. daughter
23:01 tsmeow-afk give
23:02 defaultro it's ok, I'll read up first
23:02 robotustra blank page
23:02 defaultro it's very hard for me
23:03 robotustra http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/electronics-measurement-ohms-law.html
23:03 katsmeow-afk it's a one-transistor analog circuit, any change in it anywere will change something somewhere else, step thru it's operating parameters a little at a time in your head, scribble notes if you like
23:04 defaultro so robotustra , what unit I was seeing then when I added the resistor?
23:04 defaultro i was thinking it was still voltage
23:05 defaultro is that correct? If not, them what was told to me before was wrong
23:05 robotustra it depend how did you connected yout tester
23:05 defaultro I put dial to DCV and 20
23:06 robotustra http://www.technologyuk.net/electronics/electrical_principles/electrical_measurement.shtml
23:06 robotustra you have to put probes to right place
23:06 katsmeow-afk you read 20 when using a 12v power supply adapter?
23:07 robotustra in "PARALLEL" with the "LOAD"
23:09 defaultro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWeIzptg0Xo
23:09 defaultro that's when I haven't added the resistor yet
23:09 defaultro I was reading 5v
23:09 defaultro I forgot what I was testing that time
23:09 robotustra so you power supply gives you 5V
23:09 defaultro i'm trying to recall why it was going to 0
23:10 defaultro i am getting the 5v from the Arduino
23:10 robotustra becaue you did a short circuit?
23:10 defaultro i think I was troubleshooting something before
23:12 robotustra power supply usually have restricted power, and if you put small resistor it will probably burn the power supply
23:12 defaultro got it
23:12 robotustra or if not, the voltage will drop substantionaly
23:13 robotustra consider the voltage as a level of water
23:13 defaultro for that video, i was testing 4n35's output on pin 4 and 5
23:13 defaultro k
23:13 robotustra and the resistor as a pipe with some diameter
23:13 robotustra if diameter is small - resistane is high
23:14 defaultro ok
23:14 robotustra and the water flow will be small
23:14 defaultro yup
23:14 robotustra read flow as current
23:14 defaultro what is the flowing then, current?
23:14 defaultro ah ool
23:14 robotustra yes
23:14 defaultro cool
23:14 defaultro what unit is it?
23:14 robotustra Ampers
23:14 defaultro amperes
23:14 robotustra yes
23:14 defaultro ok
23:15 defaultro in my case
23:15 robotustra so, this analogy works very good
23:15 defaultro yes
23:15 defaultro so in my case, i put 1k resistor to pin 1 of 4n35
23:15 robotustra if the pipe has big diameter - the current is high and water level drops substantionaly
23:16 katsmeow-afk umm, keep in mind most optocouplers are really slow and do not make clean squarewave outputs
23:16 defaultro i was told to divide 5v to 1k. So I got 0.005
23:16 robotustra 5 milliamps
23:16 defaultro so bigger pipe = bigger ohms?
23:16 robotustra no
23:16 robotustra smaller
23:16 defaultro k
23:16 katsmeow-afk umm, yeas, but you don't have 5v between the output of the arduino and the Vdrop of the 4n35
23:17 robotustra resistance is opposite to diameter
23:17 defaultro k
23:17 robotustra smaller tube - bigger resistance
23:17 defaultro i think if i mention this, it will help why i was doing that
23:17 theBear you do maths for a opto just like a regular led, lookup the forward voltage for the hidden led, and take it outta the equation
23:17 katsmeow-afk if the arduino pulls up to 4v, and the Vdrop of the 4n35 is 1.2v, the resistor is dropping only 2.8v
23:17 defaultro k
23:18 defaultro so usually this Vdrop are stated in datasheets?
23:18 katsmeow-afk yeas
23:18 defaultro oh ok
23:18 defaultro how you got 2.8?
23:18 defaultro just minus
23:18 katsmeow-afk 4v - 1.2v
23:19 defaultro k
23:19 katsmeow-afk understand, or just saying 'k' ?
23:19 defaultro so that means, I will use 2.8/1k?
23:19 defaultro i understand
23:19 robotustra just connect your resistor and diod and measure the voltage
23:20 katsmeow-afk no,, if you want 5ma into the 4n35, you divide the 2.8 by .005 = 560 ohms
23:20 katsmeow-afk 470 is fine if that's what you have
23:20 defaultro k
23:20 robotustra the resistance of diod strongly depend on applied voltage
23:20 katsmeow-afk 2ma may be rather low,, sensitivity of optocouplers drops off with age
23:21 defaultro here is what i was thinking that might make my camera safer. I was thinking that putting a bigger number resistor like 2.2k will lower the voltage output on the 4n35
23:21 robotustra usuallu 10 mA for diod
23:21 robotustra it's good
23:21 defaultro is that a true sentence?
23:22 defaultro i've been wanting to say this but posts keeps coming up :D
23:22 defaultro I wanted to trigger my camera shutter externally
23:22 robotustra it can, but if you put very big resistor it can stop to work
23:22 katsmeow-afk i don't know the circuit, cannot say
23:22 defaultro I know the pins on the side of my camera. When I shorted it with a knife, I was able to trigger it
23:23 robotustra because the diod will emit not enough of light to open transistor
23:23 defaultro i know the circuit and it's working but I wanted to mimic the short circuting like the knife since it has no voltage at old
23:23 katsmeow-afk why would you want to lower the voltage output on the 4n35?
23:23 defaultro because i want to mimic how I was able to trigger the shutter using a metal knife
23:23 katsmeow-afk how can it have no voltage at all?
23:24 defaultro so the metal knife has a voltage?
23:24 katsmeow-afk you do know the 4n35 does not output any volate or current by itself?
23:24 defaultro i shorted the 2 pins on my camera with a knife and shutter triggered
23:24 defaultro i didn't know
23:24 robotustra good night
23:24 katsmeow-afk read the data sheet!!
23:24 defaultro so 4n35 is just a switch then
23:25 katsmeow-afk another word for optocoupler is optoisolator !!
23:25 defaultro yes, I'm aware of that term
23:25 katsmeow-afk ok, there is zero electrical connection between the led on the input and thetransistor on the output
23:25 defaultro i thought that the reason why the guy put a resistor is to limit the voltage coming out of pin 4 and 5
23:25 katsmeow-afk :-/
23:26 theBear in OLD stuff you often used to find a tiny little bulb and a ldr or similar light-sensey thing just jammed near each other inside some heatshrink
23:26 katsmeow-afk the 4n35 transistor is opto-ISOLATED , there's NO power from it,, all it can do is be a transistor emitter and collector
23:26 defaultro this is what I followed about a month ago and it's working great, http://blog.newfocusphoto.com/projects/arduino-based-camera-control/
23:27 defaultro so what is the reason for reducing the voltage?
23:27 katsmeow-afk and if you want to simiulate a steel knife blade, you need no resistor, there's no resistor on your knife blade :-\
23:27 defaultro to keep the 4n35 from breaking?
23:27 katsmeow-afk WHAT voltage??
23:27 defaultro voltage coming out of arduino connected to pin 1 of opto isolator
23:27 theBear http://shop.sonnywalton.com/media/Optocoupler%20OP1.jpg there's an obviously neon-bulb based one, and a matching circuit from maybe err, http://www.clarkhuckaby.com/images1/fenvib1.GIF a psuedo circuit, probly matches every fender silverface from about 40s to mid 70s
23:27 defaultro that's how I have it connected
23:28 theBear just for interests sake
23:28 theBear this feels like dejavu all of a sudden
23:28 defaultro so on Arduino, specifically digital pin 7, I digitalWrite(pin7, HIGH)
23:28 katsmeow-afk while it "accidently" lowers some volts, it's there to limit the current thrut he led
23:28 defaultro digital pin 7 is connected to a resistor then to the pin 1 of 4n35
23:29 defaultro k
23:29 defaultro so the reason for putting 1k is to protect the 4n35?
23:30 katsmeow-afk mostly, if you pust too much current thru it, by connectinf right to +5, it will pop and die
23:30 defaultro got it
23:30 katsmeow-afk inversely, by limiting current, if the led is defective, the resistsor limits how much current it can drain out of the arduino
23:30 defaultro it's very clear now
23:31 defaultro k
23:32 defaultro i was wrong all the while. I thought that the reason for putting resistor between pin 1 and arduino is to reduce the voltage coming out on pin 5
23:32 defaultro but i learned from you there is no voltage on pin 5 and 4
23:32 defaultro 4 is actually gnd
23:33 katsmeow-afk correct, the http://blog.newfocusphoto.com/projects/arduino-based-camera-control/ even says that : Im using an opto isolator in my circuit too, to control the shutter. This is essentially an electronic switch which uses light to isolate two circuits, while allowing the circuit on one side of the opto isolator to control the other. The camera side of the circuit is kept electrically separate from the Arduino side, with light being the the on
23:33 defaultro I want to try now, I'll measure pin 4 and 5
23:33 katsmeow-afk how will you measure them?
23:33 defaultro got it
23:33 defaultro i will put black pin of my voltmeter on pin 4 and red pin on pin 5
23:33 defaultro on 4n35
23:34 tsmeow-afk bangs her head on the t
23:34 defaultro i want to check if there is really no voltage
23:34 defaultro although the guy said so and datasheet
23:34 defaultro :)
23:34 katsmeow-afk any volts you read on the pins, witht he led off, won't be much different than hanging the dvm probes in the air
23:35 defaultro k
23:35 defaultro won't do it anymore ;)
23:36 defaultro i was hoping you can draw me the cc driver again with the stepper motor's center tap wires connected :D
23:36 katsmeow-afk however, if you make the arduino pin +5 so the led comes on, the transistor on pins 4 and 5 will turn on, and will show to be a very low resistance on a ohm scale
23:36 defaultro k
23:41 katsmeow-afk taking forever to opem apps, Tiggr is eating all my cpu on this puter
23:41 defaultro :)
23:41 defaultro i will have to grab the machine in my basement. I gave it to my son
23:42 defaultro it's got a dead harddisk though
23:43 defaultro wow, that Tiggr is cool. Looks like it's 100% better than phonegap
23:43 defaultro I should try it
23:44 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/IMG_2089.jpg
23:44 defaultro I am looking
23:45 katsmeow-afk umm,, prolly wrong Tiggr
23:45 katsmeow-afk Tiggr : http://designerthinking.com/computerlab.html
23:46 defaultro what is that diagram?
23:46 katsmeow-afk a current source : [23:20] <defaultro> i was hoping you can draw me the cc driver again with the stepper motor's center tap wires connected :D
23:47 defaultro oh
23:47 katsmeow-afk that's as simple as they get
23:48 defaultro that's the cc driver right?
23:48 katsmeow-afk it's basically http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/current.html#linear which i mentioned before, but i use two diodes instea dof a diode and a zener
23:49 defaultro where do I connect the center tap wire?
23:49 katsmeow-afk where i shows the ,,,,,,,,,, shit
23:49 katsmeow-afk _mmmmm_|_mmmmm_
23:49 defaultro that's the one on the right side, below
23:50 katsmeow-afk see? windings, centertap?
23:50 katsmeow-afk what?
23:50 defaultro the line where TIp42 is, the bottom end
23:51 katsmeow-afk the TIP42 collector, yeas, is connected to the center tap just as i drew the schematic
23:51 defaultro then the 12+ from your drawing goes back to my + on breadboard, correct?
23:52 katsmeow-afk ya know, i useto sit and study schematics, i read them whil eating, i read under coveres in bed at nite with flashlite,, i knew stuff that way
23:53 defaultro on your pic, which is BCE
23:53 defaultro is it the same orientation like this, http://www.ecs.umass.edu/ece/m5/images/TIP122_transistor_schematic_L.jpg
23:53 katsmeow-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Transistor_Simple_Circuit_Diagram_with_NPN_Labels.svg
23:53 defaultro ah, your arrow is on top
23:53 defaultro mine is on lower
23:54 katsmeow-afk mine is pnp
23:54 defaultro so your emitter is on top
23:54 defaultro oh
23:55 katsmeow-afk why caan'ty ou read this stuff?? : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor#Types
23:55 katsmeow-afk i haveto get away, good luck with furstrating someone else
23:55 defaultro omg, i thougth there was only single symbol for transistors!!!
23:55 defaultro i wasn't really making you mad, I am serious
23:55 defaultro that link is very helpfull
23:56 defaultro reading now
23:56 katsmeow-afk yea, and to think i told you to read wikipedia hours ago
23:56 defaultro then will go back and forth with your drawing
23:56 katsmeow-afk just the pictures even!
23:56 GargantuaSauce get a pdf of Getting Started in Electronics by Mims III
23:56 katsmeow-afk you don't need to know the physics or how to build a transistor
23:56 defaultro i said, I only thought there was only a single symbol for transistor
23:56 GargantuaSauce and the Art of Electroncs, Hurwitz
23:56 defaultro so I got confused with your drawing, it was different from the link i posted
23:56 katsmeow-afk gnite
23:57 defaultro but then learned it was a different transistor
23:57 defaultro before you go, thank you so much!!!! :)
23:57 defaultro so looking at the wikipedia, my tip122 is BJT
23:58 defaultro oh, mine is NPN
23:58 defaultro and yours is PNP
23:58 defaultro damn abbreviation, lol