#robotics Logs
Oct 27 2013
#robotics Calendar
00:03 katsmeow-afk but, it can be done all in dedicated hardware
00:04 katsmeow-afk no more re-finding a pdf online, downloading it, firing up adobe, reading the pdf, then closing it, before Exploder can display the contents of the dir i know the pdf was saved in
00:06 katsmeow-afk how to box it all up, put the chips&pcb in the densest shape, standard box size, power it up, is the next issues to solve
00:06 Faek I just open my pdf's in chrome
00:07 katsmeow-afk i don't like opening them in a browser
00:07 Triffid_Hunter I feed mine to okular
00:08 tsmeow-afk doesn't have kde to run okula
00:08 Triffid_Hunter I'm using lxde
00:09 ek doesnt have l
00:09 katsmeow-afk ok
00:12 katsmeow-afk there's small issues, like you can't run all the clock and addy lines from one point to all the modules, nor can you daisey chain them more than an inch or so at rated max speed
00:30 hackman127 Thinking about building myself a clock/multimeter/whatever else I can think of out of some nixie tubes.
00:32 katsmeow-afk a noble persuit of pleasure :-)
00:33 hackman127 I've always loved things of that era.
00:34 hackman127 FOund someone who makes watches using them: http://www.cathodecorner.com/nixiewatch/nwrd-unlit.jpg
00:34 katsmeow-afk people have made clocks using new copies of old scope display tubes too, from ebay, of course
00:35 katsmeow-afk iirc, 2 3" tubes , round, $22
00:35 hackman127 That would be pretty cool. My dad is the king of old scopes, he probably had a few scrap scopes just laying around. He fancies older Tektronix.
00:36 hackman127 Those would be newer square tubes, though, not round.
00:37 tsmeow-afk uses 7603 and 7903, but has 7104, and a 5000 series also
00:38 hackman127 He has a 7603, it's by far his favorite.
00:38 katsmeow-afk it is a good ole standby, i have it in rackmount and desktop frames
00:39 katsmeow-afk i prefer the rackmount, it's why i have 7903 and not 7904
00:39 hackman127 I have a 475 myself.
00:40 katsmeow-afk portables are ok till one small portion dies, then you lose use of the whole instrument
00:41 katsmeow-afk i have a Tek 2235, died 10+ yrs ago, and a HP and a Tenma, the Tek mainframes are behindme on that desk, the Temna is on the floor beside me atm
00:42 hackman127 Which is probably why he has 6 or 7 475's laying around the basement. lol
00:42 katsmeow-afk exactly
00:42 hackman127 I think he bough a couple lots off ebay and combined them to get a couple working units.
00:43 katsmeow-afk if i accidently pop a scope amp input, i can replace it as fast as i can cuss at it, and be right back in operation
00:43 katsmeow-afk plus the rackmount scopes fit nicely with the TM500 mainframes sitting on top of them
00:43 hackman127 Yeah, that's the nice thing about the rack and desktops. But, he gave me the 475, so for the price I'm not complaining. :D
00:44 katsmeow-afk and on the shelf above, they take up no desktop space
00:44 katsmeow-afk yeas, it's a fine scope
00:45 katsmeow-afk i wouldn't mind having a 2465B
00:45 MrCurious they said after earth was a bad movie. i found it very entertaining
00:45 katsmeow-afk but for the money, i'd be sooooooooooo pissed if i needed it working, and anything happened to it
00:47 hackman127 I'm not overly familiar with it, but it looks like a nice scope. 400MHz would be nice.
00:47 katsmeow-afk and the mcp screen in it too
00:48 katsmeow-afk it's like a 1/2 speed 7104, without all the plugins you can stick in it
00:50 hackman127 Ah well, enough of finding more ways to drain the wallet for the night. I'm off to bed.
00:50 katsmeow-afk i had an Eico power amp many yrs ago, i still miss it's glow
00:51 hackman127 I have a Traynor guitar amp. Vintage '60s, loud as hell.
00:51 tsmeow-afk
00:51 hackman127 Doubles as a space heater.
00:52 katsmeow-afk heh, yeas
00:52 katsmeow-afk ST-84
00:52 katsmeow-afk there's a manual for it on ebay now
00:53 hackman127 Those things aren't cheap!
00:53 katsmeow-afk 35w/ch, when built they were thinking ahead to AM sterio, like FM sterio, there's a position on the input selector for it
00:54 hackman127 http://www.ebay.com/itm/EICO-ST40-INTEGRATED-STEREO-TUBE-AMPLIFIER-/111198757789?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19e3f6639d
00:54 katsmeow-afk heavy beasts too
00:54 katsmeow-afk each output transformer in the oem was bigger than the power transformer
00:55 katsmeow-afk some humans will pay anything to get that "tube sound"
00:55 katsmeow-afk it may sell for that, old Dynaco and McIntoshes do
00:56 katsmeow-afk that one looks in good conditiont oo
00:56 hackman127 When it comes to getting that tube sound, big iron is required.
00:56 katsmeow-afk yeas
00:57 katsmeow-afk i was so fond of my Sansui AU-7700 , but all th etransistors had premium silver-plated leads, and silver oxidises,, and there was no tin under the silver,, so the leads all became nonconductive and non-solderable
00:58 katsmeow-afk every transistor on the tone control pcb came loose and solder was useless
00:58 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eico-ST84-tube-preamplifier/111051769097
00:59 katsmeow-afk $1500
01:00 hackman127 I love tubes, but that's crazy.
01:00 katsmeow-afk i agree
01:01 hackman127 Someone else's traynor YGL-3, like mine, caption came to the same conclusion: "Trevor the amp is ready to rock !!! it is very loud . beware . i have tested it at 5 on gain and 5 on master for 15 minutes , and my eardrums are hurting" http://www.flickr.com/photos/31603983@N05/5444319799/
01:01 katsmeow-afk dual 10" ?
01:02 hackman127 Dual 12"
01:03 tsmeow-afk
01:04 katsmeow-afk i have dual 15" , can't use them now that the Sansui oxidezed, and the powerco keeps blowing up the Marantz
01:04 katsmeow-afk dual15, dual10, each side on the sterio
01:05 katsmeow-afk but then the livingroom here is not finished anyhow, and never will be
01:05 hackman127 When working, that should have no problems shaking the foundation.
01:06 katsmeow-afk nah, i'll have them working on the boat before i do in this place
01:07 katsmeow-afk i pulled out and laid steel in place today , for the 1st of the 4 pontoons
01:07 katsmeow-afk yesterday i arranged scrap prices on aluminum sheet for attaching side hulls tot he 16ft jonboat
01:10 hackman127 Sounds like a fun project! Good luck with it!
01:11 katsmeow-afk yeas, fun, right,,, but worth it
01:11 hackman127 lol
01:12 katsmeow-afk each pontoon i build this winter, 4 of them is ~1 ton each , will support up to 3 tons of boat each
01:13 katsmeow-afk so the steel i laid out today is two 400lb pieces
01:13 hackman127 Sounds like a pretty serious boat. Planning on floating your house away?
01:14 katsmeow-afk yeas
01:14 katsmeow-afk not this house, but making it a liveaboard
01:16 hackman127 That's awesome. What are you using for propulsion?
01:17 katsmeow-afk atm, i have my eye on a couple things, including an I-O foot that needs rebuilding, but i can get for cheap
01:17 katsmeow-afk i have a 350 engine in great condition, to drive it
01:18 katsmeow-afk considering a couple low-horsepower "steam" engines for just puttering from here to there, moving around a lil
01:19 hackman127 Nice. My parents boat has a 305 Mercruiser in it.
01:20 katsmeow-afk yeas,, makes for a go-fast lightweight boat, but i am thinking of heavy
01:20 hackman127 It's not exactly a light boat, but is meant to move when need be. That thing drinks gas like a college freshman drinks beer.
01:20 katsmeow-afk 4 steel pontoons, at 1 ton each, if i put 4 tons of deck on them, we are talking an 8 ton boat
01:20 katsmeow-afk yeas, that's another issue with big hp
01:21 katsmeow-afk and another reason i am thinking steam, i can pick the fuel
01:21 katsmeow-afk diesel has been much higher priced than gasoline for over a year
01:22 katsmeow-afk i was buyng diesel for $4.05 two yrs ago, while gasoline topped at $3.90 and then went down
01:22 hackman127 Steam would be great. Low HP, but high torque I'm assuming? Turn a big screw?
01:22 katsmeow-afk i was thinking 2ft, i found two
01:22 katsmeow-afk counter rotating
01:22 hackman127 That'd do the trick
01:23 hackman127 Harder to dock, though, you wouldn't have any of the shallow water benefits of a pontoon boat.
01:24 katsmeow-afk any way i figure it, if i want to travel ffrom Miss River to Bonton and back, i am talking 1000's hp and making the boat be one huge fuel tank, so i need to think outside the conventional box for motive power
01:24 katsmeow-afk raise the props
01:24 katsmeow-afk at 8 tons, i figure it will draw only a foot
01:25 katsmeow-afk the pontoons i have steel for will be 16ft long, 5ft wide, 2ft tall
01:25 katsmeow-afk of course, 6" of draft per 4 tons
01:25 katsmeow-afk anotehr reason to not put twin 1000hp diesels on it, besides the cost
01:26 hackman127 That's not bad for that much capacity.
01:26 hackman127 For sure
01:26 katsmeow-afk place down the road sold a few of them for under $500 each, sadly 2-cycle, but running
01:27 katsmeow-afk and steel pontoons too
01:27 hackman127 HA! pushing 8 tons with a 2 cycle?
01:27 katsmeow-afk 1/4 " plate bottoms, make then immune to gravel, at least
01:27 hackman127 All I can hear in my head is the sound of a moped
01:27 hackman127 Oh yeah, go break some ice with that thing. lol
01:28 katsmeow-afk heh, WW2 subs were all 2-cycle 12 clynder, many Detroit Diesels were 8 or 10 cyl 2-cycles, ditto the early mil APC
01:28 hackman127 I had no idea.
01:29 hackman127 When I think 2 cycle, though, I think dirt bikes, chainsaws, R/C planes. :-)
01:29 katsmeow-afk yeas, 2-cycl makes for dirty output when loaded, but give 2x the torque fromt he same cu in
01:29 katsmeow-afk a good many diesel trains were 2-cycle too
01:30 hackman127 Bigger 2 cycles must be a lot different than smaller 2 cycles. With a smaller 2 cycle you get low torque, high rpm.
01:31 katsmeow-afk well, yeas and no, i have the block and moving parts of a 2-cycle gas burner outboard on a table upstairs
01:31 katsmeow-afk 65hp
01:32 katsmeow-afk wikipedia : Two Cycle Diesel engine with Roots blower, typical of Detroit Diesel and some Electro-Motive Diesel Engines
01:32 katsmeow-afk The archetype of the modern form of the two-stroke diesel is the (high-speed) Detroit Diesel Series 71 engine, designed by Charles F. "Boss" Kettering and his colleagues at General Motors Corporation in 1938, in which the blower pressurizes a chamber in the engine block that is often referred to as the "air box"
01:32 katsmeow-afk The (very much larger medium-speed) Electro-Motive Diesel engine[44] is used as the prime mover in EMD diesel-electric locomotive, marine and stationary applications, and was designed by the same team, and is built to the same principle.
01:33 katsmeow-afk the two-cycle used in the Gato subs in mid ww2 were also opposed piston, 12 to 14 cylinders, twice as many pistons, two per cylinder
01:33 katsmeow-afk The desire to improve the diesel engine's power-to-weight ratio produced several novel cylinder arrangements to extract more power from a given capacity. The uniflow opposed-piston engine uses two pistons in one cylinder with the combustion cavity in the middle and gas in- and outlets at the ends. This makes a comparatively light, powerful, swiftly running and economic engine suitable for use in aviation. An example is the Junkers Jumo 204/20
01:34 hackman127 Call me blonde. This whole time I've been thinking 2 cycle gas.
01:35 hackman127 I know we were talking diesel, but when you mentioned 2 cycle, my head just picked a 3rd motor option. lol
01:35 ckman127 isn't the most knowledgeable about die
01:36 katsmeow-afk i find them interesting as parts of otehr, more instresting concepts too
01:37 hackman127 I just googled that Jumo 205. That's one screwed up engine.
01:37 katsmeow-afk Gato subs, wikipedia: Propulsion:
01:37 katsmeow-afk 4 × diesel engines driving electrical generators (Fairbanks-Morse,
01:37 katsmeow-afk heh, google the Delta - Napier
01:37 katsmeow-afk THAT is one screwed up engine
01:38 katsmeow-afk the usa bought 100's of them for PT and River boats during Korea and Vietnam wars
01:38 katsmeow-afk from UK
01:38 hackman127 Holy crap.
01:38 katsmeow-afk no other engine was as light and powerful in such a small package
01:38 rue_shop2 its serial
01:38 hackman127 That IS screwed up.
01:38 rue_shop2 made here
01:47 katsmeow-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairbanks-Morse#Seagoing_diesel_engines
01:47 katsmeow-afk Prior to the Second World War Fairbanks-Morse developed a marine engine using an unusual opposed piston design. This engine was delivered to the U.S. Navy in large numbers, often for use in fleet submarines.
01:47 katsmeow-afk The US Navy has had Fairbanks-Morse diesels in operation on its submarines almost continuously since 1938.[citation needed] They are in use on Los Angeles and Ohio-class SSBN/GNs and Seawolf-class fast attack boats.
01:47 katsmeow-afk etc
01:47 MrCurious whoa
01:47 MrCurious SNL is funny again.
01:47 MrCurious when did that happen?
01:47 hackman127 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic
01:48 hackman127 Very interesting!
01:49 katsmeow-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairbanks_Morse_38_8-1/8_diesel_engine
01:49 katsmeow-afk The Fairbanks-Morse 38 8-1/8 is a diesel engine of the two-stroke, opposed-piston type.[1] The engine was used extensively in diesel electric submarines of the 1940s and 1950s, as well as in other marine applications, stationary power generation, and briefly, locomotives.
01:49 katsmeow-afk The 38 8-1/8 has been in continuous production since its development in 1938, and is currently manufactured by Fairbanks-Morse Engine of Beloit, Wisconsin.
01:49 katsmeow-afk 38 8-1/8 engines are inline diesel engines, with combustion occurring between two opposed pistons within a single cylinder liner. The engine has a bore of 8 1/8" and a stroke of 10". The engine block is of dry block construction.[1]
01:50 hackman127 Speaking of engines, I'm going a timing belt on an odyssey in the morning, so I really need to get some sleep now. Need to get started early so I can get it done before trick-or-treat in the afternoon.
01:50 katsmeow-afk they show a pic of the engines in the USS Pomanito, i had my own paws on the engines of the USS Drum
01:51 katsmeow-afk also had paws on a opposed piston from a train engine, i still have the 14" timing/camshaft gears
01:53 hackman127 14". I've never had my hand on anything bigger than a Ford 460.
01:53 katsmeow-afk that's a big gasburner too
01:54 katsmeow-afk i'd swap my truck's diesel for a 460 about now :-/
01:56 hackman127 You're not joking there. The one I had always ran rich too, the rule of thumb was you filled the tank after 2 hours. It was a pain to get to the carb ti try to adjust it. We used it little enough that the gas bill wasn't as big as my distaste for digging into it.
01:56 hackman127 It was in a van.
01:56 hackman127 I could hardly see the carb, let alone adjust the damned thing.
01:57 katsmeow-afk yeas, but a badly running diesel is a pain and pricey too, even limiting the fuel, i think i burned ~$1200 one day 2 yrs ago
01:58 hackman127 Yeah, that's a bit worse than my 460. :)
01:58 katsmeow-afk course, i was carrying/dragging maybe 5 tons in ery hilly terrain, on the interstate
01:59 katsmeow-afk a stupid amount of money etc
01:59 hackman127 I could easily spend that $1200 on something much more fun than gas.
02:00 katsmeow-afk me too
02:00 hackman127 But, couldn't we all.
02:02 tsmeow-afk s
02:02 hackman127 That van has a 22 gallon tank. After 2 hours of highway, we'd put around 18 gallons in it, so we averaged almost 7MPG highway. We weren't pulling anything, but we did have a fair amount of equipment in it.
02:03 katsmeow-afk my 3500HD gets betetr mileage, but the diesel costs more than gas now
02:04 katsmeow-afk i had maybe 4 tons on the truck, and pulling a 20ft trailer with maybe a ton on it
02:04 hackman127 Not sure how a bunch of starving musicians managed to keep that thing on he road, but it got us where we were going. until, that is, the transmission blew 450 miles away from home.
02:04 katsmeow-afk yeas, i cracked the tranny bell housing, damned thing is aluminum
02:05 hackman127 Yeah, we weren't pulling near that. lol
02:06 tsmeow-afk strrrreeettttccchhh
02:06 MrCurious are either o you mechanically inclined enough to venture a guess at what would make a circa 2005 transmission whistle
02:06 hackman127 My '86 Fiero has a cracked bell housing. I cracked it when I forgot to pull the guide bushing for a manual tranny out of the crank when I put a NOS motor in it. Kept cranking wondering why the transmission wasn't seating on the block, then PING!
02:07 katsmeow-afk oil seal metal flange wearing on something
02:07 katsmeow-afk vac leak would too
02:07 MrCurious i ran it 100k miles before a trans fluid change
02:08 katsmeow-afk is that when it began whistling?
02:08 hackman127 After realizing that, I pulled the bushing and drilled a stop hole at the end of the crack. It's been running with no problems for probably 10k miles.
02:08 MrCurious nah, started whistling around 80k :)
02:08 katsmeow-afk whitls e the same idling as barreling down the highway at full throttle?
02:10 MrCurious no
02:10 hackman127 When is the whistle most noticeable?
02:10 MrCurious in or N gunning engine gets no whistle
02:10 MrCurious whistle starts around 30mph and gets more intense as speed raises
02:10 MrCurious when? when the radio is off
02:10 hackman127 Is it there while idling?
02:10 MrCurious no
02:11 katsmeow-afk i think you have a bearing seal , a thin piece of steel, rubbing
02:11 MrCurious onlly whistles above 30mph
02:11 katsmeow-afk replace it before it wears badly and starts leaking , and then locks up
02:11 MrCurious well then that should sort itself out once it wars through
02:11 katsmeow-afk no, it could rub for 10,000 miles and just make the tranny gears wear bad
02:12 MrCurious my mechanic had no idea how to find the whisstle cause
02:12 katsmeow-afk obviously it has rubbed for 20k miles since it started
02:12 MrCurious i am at 130k now
02:12 MrCurious so 50k rubbing
02:12 MrCurious i will trade it in soon
02:13 MrCurious make it someone elses probllem
02:13 hackman127 I would put it on some jack stands, block the back tires VERY well, put it in drive and give it a good listen.
02:13 katsmeow-afk any bearing or case seal that has a metal seal, could be tween the tranny and the engine too, check the throwout bearing, for nstance
02:13 MrCurious kat: how do you come to this knowledge?
02:14 katsmeow-afk a dust seal rubbing on a torque convertor can scream like a whislte
02:14 katsmeow-afk hands on
02:14 hackman127 That is very true
02:14 MrCurious make sense
02:15 hackman127 If it only whistles 30MPH+, I would suspect output side of the trans, though. If it were a throw out bearing or input shaft seal, you'd hear it in neutral while revving the motor.
02:15 katsmeow-afk anything that the wind can move at 30mph , i'd still check the hoses, it's the easiest to verify up on the rack
02:16 katsmeow-afk wind against the dust seal, tween the bottm og the crancase and the bell housing, can lean it in at 30mph
02:19 katsmeow-afk http://www.chicagocorvette.net/images/diagrams/large/A-CLUTCH-01-bell-housing-55-62.gif <<== the "access / extension cover"
02:19 hackman127 Depends on the type of tranny. A lot of trannys seal pretty well around the bellhousing and the inspections plates won't leak much air, so I'd still be inclined to say you won't have much air pressure change inside the bellhousing. Not in all cases, though, it could still be the case.
02:20 rue_shop2 oooh nowonder, its one of toms boards
02:20 katsmeow-afk it's hard for anyone to say without getting paws on it
02:20 hackman127 Yep
02:21 katsmeow-afk i have a very minor raoarng sound in one of my cars, it's caused by a rubber seal against the side of the flywheel
02:21 katsmeow-afk it doesn't botehr anything, and is slowly getting quieter ;-)
02:21 hackman127 It'd be good to hear it with the wheels spinning off the ground, that way you take the wind variable out of it.
02:22 katsmeow-afk it would be a pain to get it pulled outa there tho
02:22 katsmeow-afk i agree
02:22 katsmeow-afk it wouldn't be loaded tho
02:22 hackman127 True
02:22 katsmeow-afk the engine and tranny wouldn't be leaning over under load, pulling this and that
02:23 hackman127 Ok, ok, put it on a dyno and listen. :D
02:23 katsmeow-afk a vac line with a crack that opens as the engine leans over for a sec or two is still my first guess
02:25 hackman127 If it were vacuum, it would disappear at WOT
02:25 hackman127 Did we ask that?
02:25 katsmeow-afk i asked "full throttle"
02:26 hackman127 MrCurious: does the whistle disappear if you pount the gas above 30?
02:26 hackman127 pound
02:26 katsmeow-afk i am wondering if it is the engine even, yanno some brakes have whistle wires on/in them
02:26 hackman127 That's a good point.
02:27 hackman127 But you'd think after that many miles, the whistle may have turned into a grind.
02:27 hackman127 Or at least will soon.
02:27 tsmeow-afk agrees with that
02:27 katsmeow-afk unless one wore down, and then the other one began
02:28 katsmeow-afk i dunno, i am not there
02:29 hackman127 Can't tell you how many times I've told friends over the phone "It's probably this, bring it over" to find something completely different when it showed up. Pays to be hands on.
02:29 katsmeow-afk yeas
02:30 katsmeow-afk Toyota had an exhaust pipe resoanse in the late 1970's that was horrible
02:31 katsmeow-afk but you had to drive the car to find it, the customers were clueless and made things up about the noise
02:31 katsmeow-afk moving or adding a hangar fixed it
02:31 hackman127 lol!
02:32 hackman127 Just don't put the hangar half way between.
02:32 katsmeow-afk Ford used dual PLASTIC pistons in the F250 one yr, caused those big disk brakes to lock up when the pistons got hot, swelled, and wouldn't go back intot he bore, causing a run-away heat issue as you drove
02:33 hackman127 WOW
02:33 hackman127 I know they've experimented with a lot of plastic, but good god man, not with brakes.
02:34 katsmeow-afk Nissan had a situation win some cars, if the rotors were turned down to what still looked perfectly useable, the brake piston would FALL OUT OF THE CALIPER whent he pads wore down
02:35 katsmeow-afk i lost it on a steep hill, managed to get the tranny in reverse, and braked the car down the hill by easing the clutch out
02:35 hackman127 Again, wow. If the pistons were that close to the end of the bore on good rotors with bad pads, I would think you'd have binding problems getting them back in. Causing another runaway heat problem.
02:36 katsmeow-afk as you may know, if the 3500HD serpentine belt breaks, you lose power steering AND the brakes
02:36 hackman127 I did not know that, hydraulic assist?
02:36 katsmeow-afk the power assist for the brakes are run off the power steering pump
02:36 katsmeow-afk and with disc allt he way around, you cannot stop that truck manually
02:37 hackman127 I saw BMW had some issues with their hydraulic assist too, just recalled a bunch of cars.
02:37 hackman127 Good old vacuum.
02:37 rue_shop2 hmm so, if I slam the motors onteh robot from forward to reverse, the microcontroller resets
02:37 rue_shop2 hmmm
02:37 hackman127 May not be as powerful as hydraulic, but it's worked like a charm for decades.
02:38 e_shop2 looks for a 400000uF capacito
02:38 katsmeow-afk i forget who atm, all the electric power assist on cars recalled, i grabbed up ~30 of them of for parts
02:38 hackman127 rue_shop2: Check with your local power company. They may have one.
02:38 katsmeow-afk rue, separate psu for the electoics, always
02:39 rue_shop2 battery operated robot, 48V
02:39 katsmeow-afk ok, drop 20v with a regulator to a decent cap, the run the electonics off the cap
02:40 katsmeow-afk drop 30v, and you can use all those 7800 regulators
02:40 hackman127 This is what I like about #robotics. Cars, boats, robots, electronics, and who knows what else. Always a good time.
02:40 rue_shop2 I have a smps that takes the 48V to 12V at up to 30A
02:41 katsmeow-afk the regulator tween the 48v and the cap will isolate all Vdrop caused by motor surges
02:41 rue_shop2 then I go to 5V with a 7805
02:41 rue_shop2 I'm wondering what stage is dropping out
02:41 katsmeow-afk the smps is prolly confused when the motors hog current, and the smps is resetting, letting the 12v drop out
02:42 katsmeow-afk add a diode and a cap tween the smps and the 48v
02:42 katsmeow-afk a diode so the cap cannot feed power back intot he motors, and the cap keeps power to the smps
02:45 katsmeow-afk only other thing is the motors screwing with the current measuring circuits around the sense resistors
02:46 katsmeow-afk you have overcurrent and overvolt/reversevolt limits there?
02:47 rue_shop2 I didn't give the 7805 a diod
02:47 katsmeow-afk any ground loops making voltage anomolies?
02:47 rue_shop2 I did give it 2 1000uF caps
02:47 rue_shop2 maybe
02:47 rue_shop2 its hard to catch the transitions when the motors are slamed from full forward to full reverse
02:47 rue_shop2 I'll stare at it a while see what occurs to me
02:48 katsmeow-afk oscope
02:48 katsmeow-afk point your camcorder at it
02:51 rue_shop2 hmm
02:51 rue_shop2 I should finish that dig scope
02:51 rue_shop2 I have an idea, a differnt 5V supply
02:51 rue_shop2 if it dosn't work, I think I know whats happening
02:52 katsmeow-afk you can do it with analog, trigger the motor reverse and the oscope at the same time
02:52 rue_shop2 I think the motors might be lifting ground on the microcontroller enough to reboot it
02:52 katsmeow-afk but the 5v is ref'd to that gnd, or should be
02:53 katsmeow-afk so the 5v will float up with it, only issue this is the ithe current snce inputs become negative
02:53 katsmeow-afk which is why i said : [02:30] <katsmeow-afk> you have overcurrent and overvolt/reversevolt limits there?
02:56 tsmeow-afk ponders bed,,,and wanders
02:56 FrankZappa bzzt
03:43 rue_shop2 seems to be a problem at the 48V -> 12V stage, as the last test halted the onboard pc
03:44 rue_shop2 ok, I can add a filter
03:48 MrCurious why do i never have this level of focus and drive on projects when the sun is up... why is it always after 11pm that i get into my swing
03:49 MrCurious sync
03:50 rue_shop2 damn, only 1:30am and I'm falling asleep
03:58 MrCurious woo hoo getting seepy at last
04:00 Triffid_Hunter MrCurious: no idea, but I do all my best work between 1 and 3am
04:00 Triffid_Hunter I figure why fight it?
04:00 MrCurious true
04:00 MrCurious work has other ideas about when i should be awake and there
04:06 rue_shop2 wow, thats the best and fastest job I'v ever done taking apart an altermated IE core
04:08 MrCurious whats that
04:09 MrCurious an alternator?
04:10 rue_shop2 transformer
04:15 MrCurious i totally want the sword from after earth
04:37 orlok Ugh. So, we have been here for 9 months, and over that time a mass of cables had built up between where the phone socket/wifi router is, and my desktop a few meters away
04:37 orlok Like a 3 meter long robot dreadlock
04:41 MrCurious why cant i remember the name of the linux usb webcam module
04:41 theBear because there are about 50 of them ?
04:41 theBear spca and uvc are common ones that cover a lot of cams
04:42 MrCurious uvcuvideo
04:43 MrCurious thought it was under ub
04:43 MrCurious usb
04:43 theBear nup, media
04:47 MrCurious found usb webcam gadget support
04:47 theBear you know what usb gadget stuff means right ?
04:48 MrCurious nope
04:49 MrCurious drivers/media/video/uvc/uvcvideo
04:49 MrCurious thats what i want
04:49 orlok I got rid of most of the cables.. and found a huntsman sitting on the side of the router power brkc
04:49 orlok keeping warm i guess
04:49 theBear usb gadget mode is basically a host<>host interface, only place you would possibly have seen or used it is an android device connecting to a pc
04:50 theBear told you it was media
04:51 orlok He's still sitting there behind me. I dont want to bother him, but i also dont want to roll over him if he goes for a wander
04:51 MrCurious got it. thanks
04:52 rue_shop2 katsmeow-afk, how do I squeeze in the last few E's ?
04:52 orlok at least its only a huntsman
04:53 lok has been moving crap around to fit shelving to store the crap off the gr
04:54 rue_shop2 should I hammer be needed to re-assemble a transformer?
04:54 orlok i have a dozen cardboard boxes half full of assorted crap to sort through :-\
04:55 orlok sticky optimus prime?
04:58 rue_house damn, i burned supper
04:59 orlok :-(
04:59 orlok i got thai green curry
05:00 orlok gf's brother is coming to visit for the first time in 5 or so years. He's been in canada with his 3yo canadian son
05:02 Skwint Only a Canadian could spend 5 years with his 3 year old son
05:13 FrankZappa heh
05:41 rue_shop2 well, 3:30am, I diagnosed the robot and wound a filter inductor
05:41 rue_shop2 I'm goin to bed
11:53 Curious tries to get kernel modules built for a mk802 so it can work with a webcam and be deployed into a zoomer toy
12:43 rue_bed MrCurious, is it working?
12:43 rue_bed \
12:46 MrCurious the mk802 is booted to linux. rebuilding a kernel so i can load the webcam modulle
12:47 MrCurious it will work, just not there yet
12:47 katsmeow-afk do dell monitors have a button cell in them somewhere?
12:49 MrCurious oh sweet. this has a serial uart port
12:55 MrCurious serial port mean i dont need a usb hub!
12:57 tsmeow-afk uses hubs on laptops anyhow, just for power distribution rea
12:57 MrCurious its an 10" robot dog
12:57 MrCurious power and space are at a premium
12:58 theBear mmmm 10" dog
12:59 MrCurious robotic no less... hands free operation
12:59 katsmeow-afk err, ummm,, ok, if whatever you are usb'ing to can supply the power
13:00 katsmeow-afk my laptop won't give out 2amps on it's usb port, but my hub will
13:00 MrCurious usbing between a mk802 and a web cam
13:01 MrCurious https://www.miniand.com/forums/forums/development/topics/internal-uart-port-of-mk802
13:01 MrCurious someinsight into the board
13:01 tsmeow-afk sights into the insites containing insights of the b
13:02 MrCurious i see plans within plans... stans within stans
13:05 katsmeow-afk looks like they had just enough pcb to put the parts onto
13:05 MrCurious yes. briliant isnt it
13:06 MrCurious hmmm i could just use the usb OTG port
13:08 katsmeow-afk damn brilliant
13:09 katsmeow-afk the whole nix puter, gb ram, 4gb flash, 500Mhz, isn't any bigger than a usb hub
13:09 MrCurious 1ghz
13:09 MrCurious 1g ram
13:09 katsmeow-afk problem is, how do you use it?
13:09 katsmeow-afk says 500Mhx A8 cortex
13:09 MrCurious thinking publish images, subscribe to commands
13:10 katsmeow-afk oh, A10 1.0GHz Cortex-A8 + 500Hz GPU
13:10 MrCurious https://www.miniand.com/products/Miniand%20Smart%20TV
13:10 MrCurious dual core now...
13:10 katsmeow-afk no, i mean, where do you plug in the keybd, mouse, monitor, harddrives, and install winxp?
13:11 MrCurious oh man
13:11 MrCurious the new one has a webccam in it already
13:12 katsmeow-afk so it's a 1/2 gumstix size Pi ?
13:13 katsmeow-afk kudos to the first to fill up a desktop puter case full of them, and make them work together
13:13 MrCurious hahahahaha
13:15 tsmeow-afk remembers 30 yrs ago,, the consumer got to pick between 1Mhz and 2Mhz per desktop box, now you could possibly pick between 1 Thz and 2Thz desktop
13:18 katsmeow-afk for a $1000 price point, you can get 20 of those and say you have a 20Ghz puter with 20Gb ram 80Gb flash, you could hang 2 hd at 1Tb each off each mobo and have 40Tb hdd space, and it all still fit in the smallest desktop box
13:19 MrCurious downside, 32bit... slower than intel
13:20 tsmeow-afk
13:23 katsmeow-afk with 20 of them making bandwidth to separate hhds, and 20x the bandwidth to ram and flash, it may be a worthwhile tradeoff
13:24 katsmeow-afk if the problem is too big to fit into cache, that bandwidth to external stuff matters
13:26 katsmeow-afk "blisteringly fast 8Mhz TurboMode!!" (caution, not all programs will run properly at 8Mhz)
13:27 MrCurious hah
13:27 MrCurious i remember that turbo button
13:27 tsmeow-afk points t
13:27 MrCurious press once to lose at games, press again to win at games
13:28 rue_house something apple never bothered with, a backwards compatability policy
13:28 MrCurious this flashback to the land of 4.77 mhz brought to you by the makers of SPAM, enjoy SPAM for breakfast lunch and dinner
13:29 Curious shakes a balled up fist at cupert
13:29 katsmeow-afk hdd spec uses 48bit LBA addressing, 20 cards with 2 hd each is same as 45bit addressing
13:29 MrCurious bring back rosetta
13:29 MrCurious i wasn't donw with it yet
13:30 katsmeow-afk 2e48 = 281 Tb
13:31 katsmeow-afk if you could transfer a gigaBYTE per sec, you'd need 281,475 seconds to read the whole drive, or 78 hours
13:32 katsmeow-afk spread it out among 128 separate puters at Pi prices, is only 40 minutes
13:34 katsmeow-afk of course, it will be slower, because no hhd will move a gigabyte/sec anyhow
13:34 tsmeow-afk plugs it into a quantum puter and forgets about the pro
13:40 MrCurious ugh :(.text+0xdead8): undefined reference to `sw_usb_device_enable'
15:04 MrCurious a term for thumb tendinitis...."injurwii"
16:29 katsmeow-afk A 50-year-old man apparently shot and killed two men, one woman and a male teenager and then killed himself in a nearby apartment Saturday, police said. The shooter had a self-inflicted gunshot wound, police said.
16:29 katsmeow-afk Neighbors said the shooter and victims had previously argued over barking dogs. Thompson said police still don't know why the killings happened.
16:29 katsmeow-afk duh
16:29 katsmeow-afk neighbors told The Arizona Republic that the shooter was seen firing over a fence at the two dogs that were killed.
16:31 ace4016 o.0
16:32 katsmeow-afk humans get killed over dogs, the dogs are worth more
16:33 ace4016 the shooter killed two dogs, then killed 4 people...wasn't sure where the connection that dogs were worth more came about...
16:34 katsmeow-afk the shooter shot the dogs first, then the dog owners came after the shooter, so the shooter shot them too, then knowing he was going to jail forever for shooting dogs, he killed himself instead
16:34 katsmeow-afk here, someone shot a dog owner, and their legal troubles were over in one yr, i shot a god 15 yrs ago and my legal troubles are still not over
16:35 katsmeow-afk ergo, gods are worth more
16:36 ace4016 are the animal laws in arizona the same as alabama?
16:37 katsmeow-afk don't know, usually such laws are spotty and never enforced against the animal
16:37 ace4016 lol
16:38 katsmeow-afk why funny? dogs are allowed to bite anyone, but you better sure as hell not defend yourself against a dog
16:39 ace4016 i've lived in places where a dog biting someone would result in the dog immediately being put to sleep, and defending yourself would result in no penalty
16:39 ace4016 so it's really area dependant
16:41 ace4016 NC for example does seem to protect dogs better than say Miami (Florida I don't believe has animal laws and it's left to the county/city) is quite cruel place to be a pet in
16:42 ace4016 NC tends to have more hunters and such as well
16:42 katsmeow-afk i am not in favor of being cruel to any animal, neither am i in favor of the anumal being cruel to me, or the animal preempting my civil rights
16:42 ace4016 where as Miami has pets almost purely for companionship
16:43 katsmeow-afk i have had to sleep in my car because rotts would not let me out of my car on my property to go into my house, and this is deemed ok by the DA's office
16:43 katsmeow-afk this happened several times in winter
16:44 ace4016 seems pretty bad where you are. most places you can call animal control/police and they'll 1) take care of the situation and 2) cite the owner of the dogs
16:44 tsmeow-afk
16:44 ace4016 though...most laws in the US are fucktardedly dumb with equally retarded loopholes that are allowed to happen
16:45 katsmeow-afk loophole here: if you know who the dogs belong to, animal control will not pick them up, and animal control will not follow the dogs onto the owner's property to pick them up
16:46 katsmeow-afk and if the dogs dig under your fence and are too stupid to get back out, or do not want to get back out, 1) yuo can be charged with threft 2) the owner can destroy your fence and not be liable
16:47 katsmeow-afk theft
16:48 ace4016 that's silly
16:49 ace4016 also, even though i have dogs...you keep reminding me to stay away from Alabama :P
16:49 katsmeow-afk it's also expensive
16:49 ace4016 (mine are well behaved/non-violent, and my fence doesn't let them out to harass anyone)
16:49 katsmeow-afk i grew up with dogs, loved my dogs, would never let them be in a situation they might bite anyone
17:34 katsmeow-afk it always gets to me, "up" is two syllables here, and no one knows what a syllable is
17:46 MrCurious yes, much like liquid cooling systems, your finger has coolant flow. However it was not designed to pipe the levels of heat you are likely to apply it to
18:21 orlok Eurgh. Monday again
18:25 MrCurious you harbinger of doom
18:26 orlok Made a "new" desktop for work out of bits
18:26 orlok Its ok.. 3.1Ghz i5, 4 gig of ram, 40G intel SSD
18:27 orlok and a dual Xeon with 8 gig, and 6x500G drives
18:27 MrCurious 4 ghz, 4g ram, 40g ssd would have been a bit better
18:27 MrCurious quad ccore too
18:27 orlok i made it out of bits from the garage
18:30 katsmeow-afk that must be one heck of a garage
18:30 orlok well, the bits were in the garage, not from the garage itself
18:30 katsmeow-afk oh
18:31 orlok There about 40 or 50 old desktops in there, the oldest are about 7 years
18:34 MrCurious isnt the problem with them that you get relatively few mips per watt
18:34 MrCurious compared to modern tech
18:34 katsmeow-afk and they simply quit making hardware for them
18:35 orlok yeah, there were only a few systems that are worth wasting the power on
18:35 MrCurious suppose you could convert them to bitcoin miners and run them out of your garage, and turn $80k of electricity into just over $2k worth of bitcoin...
18:35 orlok even the dual cpu xeon system is a bit iffy
18:35 katsmeow-afk on the other paw, how many mips are wasted waiting you to hit the next key ont he keybd?
18:35 MrCurious it has power idle states
18:36 tsmeow-afk could use a avr to power up/down the desktop machines as ne
18:37 orlok yeah, i can see the CPU frequency bounce around depending on load
18:43 MrCurious SCORE!
18:44 MrCurious i have /dev/video0 now ;)
18:46 orlok v4l2?
18:46 MrCurious yeah
18:47 MrCurious on a miniand 1ghz arm board
18:51 MrCurious and i have taken a picture with a usb web cam
18:51 Curious puts on a flight jacket, and hangs out on the deck of a car
18:53 theBear my newest machine is 7 years old
18:54 theBear got a new 8 y.old one yesterday with my first dtv card ... hooray
18:54 MrCurious hmmm image is solid green. need to remove the flight jacket
19:00 MrCurious ah, sensor takes ~8 frames to warm up and de-green
19:20 orlok MrCurious: what sort of sensor?
19:31 MrCurious i found my microhdmi to hdmi cable. laptop now drives the big screen
19:39 Tom_itx ok for those of you that have my programmer there are new firmware files posted to increase the PDI programming clock to 2Mhz
22:30 rue_shop2 "it works great, less the flying razor blades glitch."
22:31 theBear meh, razor blades are small, ergo small issue
22:34 rue_shop2 indeed, and the ods of it happening are only 1/20
22:37 theBear pfft, that's what, 5%, inside design tolerances, way better than the caps <grin>
22:38 rue_shop2 you know that pipe thats slit in a spiral to wrap around wires?
22:39 rue_shop2 I cant find any on ebay, for anything reasonable
22:39 theBear yeah, personally i find the split down the side with a little insertion tool Y thingy (like a paper-bindey thing you use to make little booklets) is much more practical
22:39 rue_shop2 so I thought of a way to make the lathe make it, with a razor blade mounted on the chuck
22:40 theBear ooooh, oooooh
22:40 rue_shop2 http://www.cable-duct.com/photo/pl1176807-flexible_white_pe_nylon_customized_spiral_wire_wrapping_band_wrap_band_plastic.jpg
22:40 theBear what would you start with ?
22:40 rue_shop2 nylon pipe
22:41 rue_shop2 spinning angled razor blade, pulls it thu as it cuts
22:41 theBear hmm, spose if you can get it, i can't think of anything lighter than pvc conduit and heavier than heatshrink
22:41 armyofevilrobots @rue: http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00leSaYgArHtWy/Letter-Opener-YD8-002-.jpg
22:42 rue_shop2 :)
22:42 rue_shop2 hows the new place?
22:42 armyofevilrobots It's coming along nicely.
22:42 rue_shop2 shop eta?
22:42 armyofevilrobots Just stripped and etched the floor, gonna put down epoxy either tomorrow or next weekend, depending on when the electrician comes in to finish the 220 wiring.
22:43 armyofevilrobots Fun fact; they use citric acid to etch floors now; it's less nasty than muriatic.
22:43 rue_shop2 who do youhave doing it?
22:43 rue_shop2 leaves the floor lemonie fresh
22:44 armyofevilrobots I am going to do the floor. It's not so hard.
22:44 rue_shop2 electrical
22:46 rue_shop2 arg, dont know what I have time to work on
22:47 orlok armyofevilrobots: oh nice, i wanted to do that!
22:47 armyofevilrobots Oh, The electrical I don't recall the company. I have a general contractor managing it, and the pricing was pretty reasonable.
22:47 orlok armyofevilrobots: but my slab was too uneven,and we wanted to hurrb up and move
22:47 rue_shop2 hmm
22:49 rue_shop2 just curious if its one of the smaller or bigger guys
22:51 armyofevilrobots @rue; that spiral loom, I got some from dealextreme.com, but it isn't listed right now; might have a different name or something.
22:51 rue_shop2 hmm, I saw a problem with dx
22:51 rue_shop2 what was it...
22:52 armyofevilrobots 3 weeks wait ;)
22:52 rue_shop2 maybe i just ended up with $500 of stuff in a basket and decided none of it was anything I needed, just wanted
22:52 armyofevilrobots That's dx.com all right.
22:52 orlok heheheh
22:53 orlok could also describe Aldi
22:53 lok ended up with a handheld inspection ca
22:53 armyofevilrobots @rue: Ping me tomorrow on the loom, I might have a roll I could spare some from.
22:53 orlok so far have used it to rescue kids toys from down the back of the entertainment unit
22:54 orlok and i tried to poke it down some animal burrow
22:54 orlok bit the lense got muddy
22:54 armyofevilrobots Ooh: http://dx.com/p/pet-braid-wire-cable-elastic-tightening-management-black-50m-197064
22:55 rue_shop2 the tube itself it cheap from GBS
22:55 armyofevilrobots Oh, they have it? cool.
22:55 rue_shop2 just tube
22:56 armyofevilrobots Ah, hence the lathe comments.
22:56 armyofevilrobots I have the spiral stuff somewhere, like 100ft of it.
22:56 armyofevilrobots 3/8 id.
22:56 rue_shop2 arg,. I ahve to close that or I'm gonna hurt my wallet again
23:10 rue_shop2 hmm I wonder if I should be filtering the big ugly load or the logic power
23:12 rue_shop2 nowonder the motor dosn't work, there is no wire in this fuse...
23:13 rue_shop2 huh, the wire just dissapeared fromt eh main fuse
23:15 e_shop2 gets a fuse with a bigger
23:15 rue_shop2 4A/motor * 2 motors, + computer... yea, 15A should do it
23:16 rue_shop2 ** blink **
23:17 rue_shop2 huh, my robot just exploded
23:19 rue_shop2 hmm
23:19 rue_shop2 most unusual
23:19 rue_shop2 I usually get smoke before that happens
23:19 rue_shop2 48VDC makes a lot of noise...
23:23 rue_shop2 hmm nowonder, it dosn't work, the top is missing from the driver transistor
23:23 rue_shop2 damn, where is my crazy glue
23:23 MrCurious thats what she said
23:25 MrCurious rue_shop2: you should name that robot crazy edddy
23:25 rue_shop2 its buddy II
23:26 MrCurious on futurama, razy eddy blows up all the time when he gets too excited
23:26 rue_shop2 the origional part number, from what I can read, was IRF
23:26 rue_shop2 the rest is gone
23:27 MrCurious V__GER
23:27 rue_shop2 hmm
23:29 rue_shop2 the other one is a IRF640
23:30 rue_shop2 I tried to find the top, but its in little bits all over the floor and they are gonna be too hard to put back togethor
23:31 MrCurious damnit jim, i am a doctor, not a semiconductor engineer
23:32 rue_shop2 hmm the flyback diode is fused, that woulnd't have helped it
23:33 rue_shop2 well, I recon the time delay fuse didnt either
23:33 rue_shop2 heh the pn2222 gate drive is ok
23:34 rue_shop2 DTV32F15
23:34 rue_shop2 anyone know the ratings?
23:38 MrCurious doesnt it have some form of protection system to prevent just this sort of thing?
23:41 rue_shop2 you mean the fuse I upgraded?
23:42 MrCurious did you upgrade it because it kept blowing
23:42 rue_shop2 yea...
23:42 MrCurious so it was doing its job?
23:42 MrCurious there may be a lesson in here somewhere
23:43 rue_shop2 both of them, the motor channel when it blew and the main fuse that blew after I upgraded the motor fuse
23:43 rue_shop2 yea, upgrade fuses in smaller steps!
23:43 rue_shop2 :)
23:43 MrCurious what was that saying "a $$$ dollar ____ will blow first in order to save a $0.20 fuse"
23:44 rue_shop2 sorry, the fuse AND the flyback diode were free
23:44 rue_shop2 that said, the fuse was too
23:44 MrCurious doh!
23:45 MrCurious this is the uber-hex your making?
23:46 rue_shop2 no its a rov
23:46 rue_shop2 S10C40 is rated for 40V, so I guess its no good at a flyback for a 48V motor driver
23:47 MrCurious does it have regenerative braking
23:47 MrCurious give that power somewhere to go
23:48 rue_shop2 its for the motors flyback from the pwm
23:49 rue_shop2 6 parallel 1N5819... naaa
23:50 MrCurious wont the current seek the shortest path, i.e. through a single one of them?
23:59 rue_shop2 yea I cant find a shottkey good for 5+A at 55V+