#robotics Logs

Oct 18 2013

00:00 GargantuaSauce from the tape speed not being constant
00:01 MrCurious oh
00:01 GargantuaSauce a relic of a bygone era
00:01 useless-afk no
00:02 GargantuaSauce no?
00:02 MrCurious when i was first learning to program, we only had ones and zeros... i once wrote a database application using ONLY zero's
00:02 useless-afk prerecorded cassette tape on 10 and 12 inch reels, loaded into cassette shells, the position of the cut on the reel, the begin-end of the casstte,
00:02 MrCurious thats nothing. we only had 1's and lower case o's
00:02 useless-afk marked by the 4hz tone
00:03 useless-afk diff companies used diff methods, RCA put that cue tone tween the two sterio tracks, CBS put it dead on both sterio tracks
00:04 useless-afk i had to edit some tapes with a razor blade to get rid of it if i wanted to crank the bass
00:05 useless-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_bin_duplicator
00:05 useless-afk This cue tone tells the loader to stop and cut the tape from the pancake and splice it to the other length of leader in the cassette shell (a process called "de-spooling"). In fact, part of this de-spooling tone can be heard at the leader splice of some pre-recorded audio cassettes, as a very low-frequency arpeggiated rumbling, but as an actual tone when played back at a higher speed.
00:07 useless-afk The recorded pancakes are then threaded onto the loaders for despooling into C-0's (empty cassette shells). C-0's contain only a leader. This machine extracts and cuts the leader, splices the end of the program to one side, despools it to the beginning and splices both ends together. The cue tone signals it when to start and stop.
00:18 useless-afk so when the band inserted cue tones into the music, the loaders promptly chopped up the tape into short segments into several cassettes
00:53 useless-afk what this part of the world needs: ball bearing rebuild kit for riding mower engine 12v starter motors
01:20 useless-afk woah@NSW fires
01:20 useless-afk they do not believe in fireproofing or water sprinklers in Oz?
01:25 useless-afk Penumbral Lunar Eclipse 2013: Earth's Shadow To Fall On Full Moon On Friday, Oct. 18
01:27 useless-afk Europe will see it well, the CUSA dimly
01:27 useless-afk Oz won't see it
01:27 MrCurious studying has ended. time to chilz
01:29 useless-afk Rif is just north of NSW,, iirc
01:29 MrCurious i suspect i crammed too much, and my brain will now refuse to sleep
01:30 useless-afk maybe if you tap it gently, with the end of your finger, tween the eyes
01:36 useless-afk It turns out a quick internet search uncovered at least 17 shootings by man's supposed best friend (his dog, not his wife) since 1980.
01:36 useless-afk http://www.huffingtonpost.com/louis-klarevas/dog-shooting-accidents_b_4110822.html?utm_hp_ref=crime
09:16 GuShH rue_house : seems I still got chatter, it may be the compound this time and not it's mount -- mind you the SFM was way low, but you can see the chatter marks clearly on this tiny billet I cast at home http://gushh.net/tmp/dscn4256f.jpg -- http://gushh.net/tmp/dscn4252f.jpg -- hell you can also see the impurities within, it wasn't fluxed.
09:16 GuShH oh and I was cutting with carbide, not hss
09:18 GuShH which makes it even worse at low SFM, damn carbide... I'll have to swap the motor for a 3 phase with VFD eventually (I have 3 phase but it would give me no improvement on speed control if I wired it up directly) --- so that's the planned mod for the lathe, new transmission and power source. we'll see once I get the parts.
09:18 GuShH otoh the cast alu cuts very well, surprisingly. it was a mixture of alloys.
09:19 rue_house what do you flux with?
09:19 GuShH I didn't
09:19 GuShH I would've used salt at least if I wanted to give that a try
09:19 GuShH then skim
09:20 rue_house carbide dosn't seem to be good for fine cuts, and it was confirmed to me by a machinist that HSS can do way better
09:20 ShH wonders whatever the hell bug took a piece of his neck while he was as
09:20 GuShH yes HSS would be ideal
09:20 GuShH specially at the lower speeds
09:20 rue_house he said if your not a cnc machine hss is just fine
09:20 GuShH I've yet to get some blank bits to grind though
09:20 GuShH true but carbide has it's advantages
09:20 GuShH less or no coolant for instance
09:21 GuShH for quick rough cuts
09:21 GuShH of course an interrupted cut at low SFM will shatter it
09:21 rue_house my lathe cant get up to the highest speed without tripping the breaker
09:21 GuShH or a bind will as well, as I've found out
09:21 rue_house what kinda salt? borax?
09:21 GuShH vfd with soft start!
09:21 GuShH I wonder is the torque at low speeds better than with a DC motor (treadmill)
09:21 GuShH should be?
09:22 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/lathe/p1050162.jpg
09:22 rue_house mmmm
09:23 GuShH on this circuit I get a bit of light-dimming-action because the work light is connected in parallel to the lathe and it's a 10A circuit, peak start current should be way higher than that.
09:23 GuShH you mostly have hss!
09:24 rue_house small bag of carbide on the top right
09:24 rue_house I like the hss more
09:24 rue_house I can grind it up
09:24 GuShH on these small lathes hss makes more sense
09:24 GuShH and true, for carbide you can't use regular grinding wheels
09:25 rue_house I honed up a borked peice of carbide and its been cutting ok
09:25 GuShH but I got to run a few test cuts on mild steel with carbide, no coolant... was pretty neat, the chips turn blue as they roll out
09:25 GuShH that's about the limit of these lathes for steel
09:25 GuShH a chip thick enough not to break up after a few millimeters
09:26 GuShH (of cut) must be 1mm thick cuts
09:26 GuShH at best
09:26 GuShH compound still rocks back and forth, call me crazy but I can see it.
09:26 GuShH it's not the gibs
09:26 rue_house I think someone yours is cheaper than mine
09:26 GuShH it's the same except for the drive train
09:27 GuShH comes out of the same factory
09:27 GuShH but they all have different problems
09:27 GuShH it's china.
09:27 GuShH I doubt you can cut > 2mm on mild steel with any chinese lathe of this size
09:27 rue_house I dont thknk so, I think mine was paid for a bit more, and came just a little higher QC
09:27 GuShH that's why it had a plastic gear?
09:28 GuShH it's the same bed to begin with
09:28 GuShH only a few places in china do them, you'd think there would be 100s of shops casting them...
09:28 GuShH not that high of a demand
09:28 rue_house I was making a new shaft for a fan, (6.2mm) and had a hell of a time with parallelism, it seems that the position of the tailstock moves a lot (5 thou) with the pressure on the feed lock of it
09:29 GuShH that's probably lack of QC on your tailstock, it was ground / milled out of spec on it's base
09:29 GuShH try to shim it
09:29 rue_house every time I pushed back the tailstock and put it back, the taper would be different
09:30 GuShH re-align and lock the setscrews
09:30 GuShH anyway ... eventually I'll get a used monster from a better era
09:30 rue_house I did, 4 times, then gave up and noticed I could just tighen the lock till it was in the right position
09:30 GuShH when the chinese were only just rice farmers
09:31 rue_house admit it, you got that one cause it was in your price range
09:31 GuShH but for that I need to either get rid of a lot of crap or build a shop
09:31 GuShH no, I could've got a bigger used lathe
09:31 GuShH but I have no means to move the parts or a place for them
09:31 rue_house arg, time to go to work
09:31 GuShH I just didn't want to spend months hunting down parts for one and ending up with a butchered lathe, which turns out that's what chinese lathes are.
09:32 GuShH rue_house : these go for twice what you've paid, tell me you wouldn't be annoyed it if had the slightest problem. the milling machine I'm looking at is used, I'm not even looking at new ones...
09:33 GuShH I'll just check for play and wear
09:34 GuShH on a big production line depending on the product being made the milling machine would not have been used a lot, compared to a smaller specific shop... because they have (or had, since most have closed down) specialty tools for each step, so it's only a matter of accumulative wear and how they treated the machine. of course that statement isn't always true, but it is the case on this particular one I'm looking at.
09:35 rue_house to think it all started made out of wood!
09:35 GuShH also I'll give you the numbers and you try to face an alu billet, take a macro shot and let's compare? I'll try to get someone with a real lathe to do the same
09:35 GuShH hard to remove the operator factor though
09:36 rue_house gtg!
09:36 GuShH aight. for instance this thing costs less than what I paid for the new china lathe http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-479318085-torno-paralelo-y-serrucho-_JM
09:37 GuShH or a tiny toy logan... http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-480080423-torno-paralelo-acero-madera-marca-logan-made-in-usa-_JM
09:38 GuShH woah, hydraulic tailstock on another one
09:38 GuShH fancy
09:39 GuShH it was an actual add-on you placed behind the original tailstock
09:39 GuShH and they stold you the pump which would also have a coolant "channel" and some other aux outputs
09:42
09:42 GuShH just no place for them yet.
09:43 GuShH look at how the bed ends before the chuck, neat.
09:43 GuShH in a way.
09:44 ShH just didn't want to end up with a machine rotting outside like some people end up d
09:44 theBear heh, i got a used monster right here <grin>
09:45 GuShH theBear : I said used, not worn out.
09:45 ShH
09:45 theBear hehe
09:45 GuShH seriously, making a "shed" (americans seem to call them "shops") properly costs as much as the lathe
09:46 GuShH not just a wooden cabin, proper reinforced concrete floor, proper steel framework, proper roofing and proper insulation... lining the walls with drywall or similar is also costly.
09:46 GuShH and then there's the tax issue whenever you build something like that
09:47 GuShH so you'd have to find a way around it, maybe by not making it permanent and arguing it's just "scaffolding"
09:47 theBear lining with drywall is cheap
09:47 GuShH or going redneck and having a green roof (with grass n' shiet) hoping they won't notice from up high
09:48 GuShH theBear : it adds up
09:48 theBear how big you talking about ?
09:48 GuShH one sheet is cheap, 100 of them add up to the cost
09:48 theBear 100 ? damn man ! that's a big shed
09:48 GuShH err do I have to think numbers or can I just say bigish?
09:48 theBear that's a friggin barn
09:48 GuShH say 3 cars big
09:48 GuShH or 4
09:48 GuShH but you'd fit 5
09:48 GuShH if you wanted to
09:48 GuShH that sort of bigish.
09:49 GuShH probably less than 100 sheets, I woke up recently and I'm still drinking my coffee.
09:49 theBear walls and ceiling that's less than 50 sheets
09:49 GuShH how big are your sheets
09:49 GuShH not the ones on your bed
09:49 GuShH oh I got a new set of sheets, thought they were made here but a closer inspection told me they were made in pakistan
09:49 GuShH probably by slaves
09:50 theBear depends what i'm doing, 2.4*1.2 or 3*1.2 generally
09:50 theBear course that's all in the past now :(
09:51 GuShH used to work on that
09:51 GuShH ?
09:51 GuShH I've seen a few pictures where you were doing construction work, or similar, but I assumed it was for yourself
09:52 GuShH the standard drywall sheet is 12.5mm thick 1.2 x 2.34 meters here
09:52 GuShH it's mostly plaster
09:52 GuShH each cost from 5 to 8 dollars
09:53 GuShH sure, compared to the rest of the cost it's peanuts
09:53 GuShH the door costs more, at least a good one.
09:53 GuShH you'd have a sliding door or garage type, which if you buy it already made, costs as much as all the materials for the shop.
09:54 GuShH floor is the biggest cost, followed by structure, roof, walls.
09:54 GuShH (for some reasoun hiring a pouring crew isn't cheap)
09:55 ShH pokes theB
09:58 theBear last shed i built i mixed and poured the 12" slab by hand, not to mention digging and building the footings and building the brick walls and full framed roof
10:00 GuShH theBear : I can't do that
10:01 GuShH also I wouldn't use bricks, for the tax issue
10:02 GuShH it's considered construction work
10:02 GuShH you need a permit, approved blueprints, yada yada.
10:02 theBear only if they can prove it wasn't there before you were
10:02 GuShH they would still make you have it all re-measured and they would adjust the taxing fees accordingly
10:02 GuShH here they even measure your pool, if you have one, and tax you for it
10:03 GuShH if you have a water tower, they measure that as well
10:03 theBear hmm, your country is stupid
10:03 GuShH anything with bricks and a roof is taxed
10:03 GuShH the pool tax is a punishment tax
10:03 GuShH at least that's what I call it
10:03 GuShH just because you have a hole in the ground with some water in it doesn't mean you are fucking rich
10:04 GuShH my pool is half full of gooey water, am I fucking rich?
10:04 GuShH I don't even have a filtration system installed
10:04 GuShH indeed they are not only stupid but also heavily retarded.
10:05 GuShH you can have a fibreglass pool installed for not much money, a proper pool with concrete, etc. costs a lot more, but that's irrelevant to them
10:05 GuShH or you could make it yourself however you want it, still taxed.
10:06 GuShH tax should be for "diy" pools, professional made / installed shouldn't be taxed. that's my compromise for them
10:06 GuShH still sounds unfair, but it's a lot more fair.
10:06 GuShH speaking of which I've no way to find out where the pipes go on this pool
10:06 GuShH the return pipes are clearly there you can see them on the side of the pool, but I don't know where they go
10:07 GuShH should I try to inject water and see where it comes out from?
10:07 theBear hookup a vacuum and see what comes out
10:07 GuShH o.O
10:07 GuShH any actual method used in real life that I should know about?
10:07 GuShH blasting air ... or smoke...
10:07 ShH bl
10:08 theBear i not reading very hard, tho a lot of industrial testing is done with smoke machines
10:08 GuShH the pool has some piping done, for a filtration system, but they never installed one
10:09 GuShH if I wanted to, I would first need to find out where those pipes end
10:09 GuShH scouting around I couldn't find any pipes sticking up nearby the pool
10:09 GuShH there's no skimmer anyway, the company that made this pool is full of retards.
10:09 GuShH they charge you a lot for a whole lotta nuthin
10:10 GuShH I got the blueprints, it shows nothing other than the dimensions
10:10 GuShH and location / placement of the pool
10:10 GuShH a big ass industrial metal detector would work for this assuming the pipes are metal
10:11 GuShH ferrous
10:11 ShH is waiting for someone to mention divining
10:12 theBear i can divine, but it doesn't work for something that small
10:12 GuShH I call bullshit on the whole concept
10:13 GuShH But if you really believe in it, please explain me how it works
10:13 theBear technically so do i, but that doesn't explain some things
10:14 theBear also don't know how i can guess what someone draws and seals in an envelope either, but back when i did that it was way beyond a statistical anomoly
10:14 GuShH http://vimeo.com/26281620 lawl
10:15 theBear and wire doesn't work, everyone knows that
10:15 GuShH I feel like punching this person a few times... hopefully that's a normal response
10:16 theBear dunno about normal, but it's how i'd feel if i clicked that picture
10:16 GuShH he finds "overhead power lines" and other nonsense
10:17 GuShH also mispells hanger with hangar
11:16 GuShH what do you do with a dull cheap carbon steel drill bit... http://gushh.net/tmp/dscn4247f.jpg you run it dry against stainless steel until it friction welds itself stalling the motor! -- pic is after separation
11:17 GuShH fun fun fun
11:18 GuShH it can still be salvaged, but it's not worth it. trying to put aside the crappy bits and getting the good ones resharpened, specially the big numbers.
11:21 GuShH theBear: did you end up joining that last site you linked me to? does it work at all?
12:48 MrCurious eer have that star trek dream where you are attempting a Vulcan Mind Melt with an IPA.... strange.
12:48 MrCurious ever
13:15 GuShH MrCurious: nope, those are the meds.
15:26 useless-afk looks like not selling as much meth is hurting the neighbors, one of their suvs just got repo'd
18:59 eless-afk tosses things into the air to see if gravity is still working thruout the entire cha
19:57 e_house wakes up being hit by a pipe wr
21:28 i-make-robots http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RubzoAVzVu8
22:42 useless-afk when i said you could take the car but leave me the wire that's in it, this isn't what i meant : http://tinyurl.com/okmnwud
22:42 ace4016 lol