#robotics Logs
Oct 14 2013
#robotics Calendar
02:38 interiorcrocodil o.O
09:22 Tom_itx rue_house http://www.electronicproducts.com/Power_Products/Batteries_and_Fuel_Cells/Image_of_the_Day_Fastest_accelerating_vehicle_in_the_world_beats_the_Bugatti.aspx
09:44 Tom_itx http://www.electronicproducts.com/Software/Development_Tools_and_Software/Police_are_advocating_iOS_7_upgrade_for_security_reasons.aspx
09:44 theBear lemme guess, it's got builtin backdoors ?
11:04 eless-afk feels justified knowing she was mentioning (and being ridiculed for mentioning) the NSA backdoors in windos95 and 3rd party firewalls, and backdoors in Adobe, in
11:43 robotustra hey people
11:44 robotustra who ever worked with gyro/accel/incl sensors?
11:45 robotustra like AXDL345, L3G4200, MMA7455?
12:41 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: me
12:41 SquirrelCZECH few days ago
12:41 SquirrelCZECH but.. ehmm
12:41 SquirrelCZECH not sure if I can help :D
12:41 SquirrelCZECH it is my first gyro-anything :-)
13:40 robotustra SquirrelCZECH: ok
13:40 robotustra what board did you connect it?
13:41 robotustra did you read it through i2c?
13:41 robotustra or SPI?
13:41 SquirrelCZECH oh
13:41 SquirrelCZECH I used https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10736
13:41 SquirrelCZECH and software they use
13:41 SquirrelCZECH it works perfectly
13:41 SquirrelCZECH but I dunno how :D
13:41 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: but !
13:42 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: https://github.com/ptrbrtz/razor-9dof-ahrs/tree/master/Arduino/Razor_AHRS I uploaded this into atmega that controls that accel
13:42 SquirrelCZECH and everything
13:42 SquirrelCZECH so there have to be written how it connects to these sensors
13:44 robotustra $124.95
13:44 robotustra did you buy this for that price?
13:44 SquirrelCZECH yep
13:44 robotustra OMGOMGOMG
13:44 robotustra http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-Axis-Degree-Freedom-ITG3200-ITG3205-ADXL345-HMC5883L-Module-IMU-Sensor-/400384399520?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d38c518a0
13:45 robotustra the same thing
13:45 SquirrelCZECH without atmega I suppose?
13:45 SquirrelCZECH anyway
13:46 SquirrelCZECH ebay.com is not somethign I can rely on
13:46 uirrelCZECH creates machine for secondary school, so "monkey" should be able to order replacement p
13:46 SquirrelCZECH and these monkeys doesn't like ebay or anything lik ethat
13:47 robotustra ok
13:47 rue_bed well, all the servo controllers on the hexapod are talking
13:48 rue_bed ooo I"m dozing off again, heh
13:48 robotustra hm, this board already send info via uart
13:48 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: actually I didn't even buyed it from sparkfun
13:48 robotustra SquirrelCZECH: at what frequency?
13:48 SquirrelCZECH I asked local company to do so :D
13:49 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: 57600 ?
13:49 robotustra how many readings per second
13:49 SquirrelCZECH 20
13:49 robotustra no, it's just baud rate
13:49 robotustra not bad
13:49 SquirrelCZECH 20Hz is default I suppose
13:49 SquirrelCZECH do not remember correctly
13:49 rue_bed mmm now that I found my code error I should bump the baud rate too
13:50 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: from one point of view
13:50 SquirrelCZECH it is expensive
13:51 SquirrelCZECH from the other hand I wrote email to local company and after a fet weeks I've got a board that I just simply connect PC, load SW, do some calibration and connect it to my project
13:51 SquirrelCZECH no need to do anything else
13:51 SquirrelCZECH and I've got nice resolution data about acc/gyro/mag of that board
13:52 SquirrelCZECH you can still say: "you can build it!"
13:52 SquirrelCZECH I can
13:52 robotustra in this place more datales please
13:52 robotustra what is the precision
13:52 SquirrelCZECH but everything I do I have to teach secondary school teacher to do again ...
13:52 robotustra of any of this part
13:52 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: ?
13:53 robotustra I mean the precision of data you'd got from this board
13:53 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: 00.01 on gyro
13:53 SquirrelCZECH didn't teste everything yet
13:53 SquirrelCZECH *tested
13:53 robotustra of degree?
13:53 SquirrelCZECH yep
13:53 SquirrelCZECH goes -180,180
13:53 robotustra wow
13:53 SquirrelCZECH one things is numbers you got and one thing reality I can say! :D
13:53 SquirrelCZECH but
13:53 SquirrelCZECH it looks awesome, yes :-)
13:54 robotustra can it do more than 180 degree?
13:54 SquirrelCZECH it resets
13:54 SquirrelCZECH so it goes like-> 179,180,-179
13:54 SquirrelCZECH or, I am not sure about exact numbers, just this style
13:55 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: quite a neat thing is
13:55 SquirrelCZECH that I do not know a single thing about what I will get from ACC
13:55 SquirrelCZECH so I have to figure out what range of "numbers" and what does it actually mean :-/ and I still didn't figured out a way to do so
13:56 SquirrelCZECH 13bit resolution is one point :-)
13:56 robotustra ok
13:56 robotustra I have to find an analog
13:56 SquirrelCZECH :D
13:56 SquirrelCZECH and for me, personally the best thing is
13:56 SquirrelCZECH that board accepts "5-16V"
13:57 SquirrelCZECH so I do not have to care about board "power source" at all! it's all solved on the board :D
13:57 uirrelCZECH is just horrible in this kind of things, so he appreciate when somebody else do it
13:58 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: I suppose you have some knowledge about electronics? and these kind of boards?
13:59 robotustra at least I can take 2 boards connect them and write a firmware for it
13:59 robotustra but it takes time of cause
14:00 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: that "razor imu" is programmed with FTDI, standart thing, but ! It is 3.3V
14:00 robotustra last time when I bought sparkfun bord it had bad bootloader
14:00 SquirrelCZECH and I have FTDI for 3.3V/5V
14:00 robotustra no problem
14:00 SquirrelCZECH so I can do so, but it's risky that I forgot to switch that board
14:00 robotustra I care just about paremeters
14:00 SquirrelCZECH and because of other parts, I still have to attach logic level converter in front of that board
14:01 robotustra frequency of readings
14:01 SquirrelCZECH but it's easy for RX/TX because I know the way of "signal"
14:01 robotustra max3232
14:01 SquirrelCZECH but.. how i should attach logic level converter to CTS/DTR pins?
14:01 robotustra forget, you don't need it
14:02 robotustra 3 wires is enough
14:02 robotustra it's for hardware flow control
14:02 robotustra put flow control None
14:03 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: I need it for programming as I know?
14:03 SquirrelCZECH and this is what I want to achieve :D
14:04 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: I want to be able to programm that thing with 5V FTDI
14:05 robotustra do you want to program atmega on board?
14:05 SquirrelCZECH yes
14:05 robotustra du they have bootloader?
14:05 robotustra do
14:06 SquirrelCZECH I suppose?
14:06 uirrelCZECH just programmed it like it was Arduino Pro 3.3V ... so yes they
14:12 robotustra do you query this sensor or it just spool all data in uart?
14:13 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: spool all data
14:13 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: and got few commands to control it
14:13 SquirrelCZECH turn on/off the stream
14:13 SquirrelCZECH change it char/binnary
14:13 SquirrelCZECH "only gyro"
14:14 SquirrelCZECH "all 9 sensors" , "all 9 sensors corrected" ...
14:19 robotustra ok
14:20 robotustra how do you send data if it's half duplex
14:21 robotustra or you have 2 uarts there?
14:23 robotustra or you have to poke command just after receiving sensor data?
14:23 robotustra how do you do configuration?
14:33 robotustra SquirrelCZECH: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ArduIMU-9DOF-9-Degrees-of-Freedom-IMU-Use-with-bootloader-/170880773183?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c949ac3f
14:33 robotustra $38.55 the same board
14:38 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: you mean send data there?
14:38 SquirrelCZECH ehm
14:38 SquirrelCZECH Serial.write()... :D
14:38 SquirrelCZECH but as I know uart is twoway communication?
14:38 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: good for next project
14:38 robotustra yep, I just refreshed my knowledge
14:38 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: still "ebay" thingy
14:39 robotustra I'm already thinking to buy a board like this
14:39 robotustra just to test it extensively
14:39 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: I really like the "box-like" idea of this thing
14:39 SquirrelCZECH buy, upload, use
14:39 SquirrelCZECH nothing to care about :D
14:40 robotustra but this out of box solutions can contain errors
14:40 robotustra or be not properly tested
14:40 SquirrelCZECH ehm
14:40 SquirrelCZECH my personal experience is that everything contains errors
14:40 SquirrelCZECH it's just about: " is it usable or not?"
14:41 SquirrelCZECH can I use it and rely on it or not?
14:41 robotustra for most of applications like truck on wheels - they are OK, but for bipedal robot?
14:41 SquirrelCZECH if yes? ok than :-)
14:41 robotustra I mean, for instance our vestibular apparatus works at about 25 Hz
14:41 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: hmm, I would prefer 6DOF version for that :D
14:42 robotustra why?
14:42 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: don't forget 20Hz is just interal value of that software
14:42 SquirrelCZECH so, you can tune it up I think
14:42 SquirrelCZECH a lot :D
14:42 SquirrelCZECH because as I looked up the code ... I am sure you can help it
14:43 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: in code it's written, that 20Hz is default setted value and it's what it is tuned for
14:43 robotustra what I was going to do before you told me about this board - I was thinking to read data by myself
14:43 SquirrelCZECH so you can play with it....
14:43 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: the difference between 9 DOF, and 6 DOF, are missing 3DOFS which are - magnetometer
14:43 robotustra and I wanted to put a couple of gyro in the head of robot
14:43 SquirrelCZECH and it's ... least usable? :-)
14:44 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: If I were you
14:44 robotustra yep
14:44 SquirrelCZECH I would buy a gyro as you said, learn how to work with it
14:44 SquirrelCZECH study things around it properly
14:44 SquirrelCZECH because I think for bipod, this things are crucial
14:44 robotustra http://www.ebay.com/itm/MPU-6050-3-Axis-gyroscope-acce-lerometer-module-3V-5V-compatible-Arduino-/261080395340?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc99aae4c
14:44 SquirrelCZECH and than... use some "allready made solution" :D
14:44 SquirrelCZECH like the IMU I use or anything familiar
14:45 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: looks fair enough :-)
14:45 robotustra I think that I have to read at least 50 times per second to average data
14:46 SquirrelCZECH maybe?
14:46 SquirrelCZECH :D
14:46 SquirrelCZECH dunno really :-/
14:46 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: I will use it in my "airship" project
14:46 SquirrelCZECH which is cool
14:47 robotustra I don't know for sure, I have to test also, it's just my assumptions
14:47 SquirrelCZECH because airship can take anything on low frequency :D
14:47 SquirrelCZECH because, it's just heavy and slow :D
14:47 robotustra yep
14:47 robotustra until your airship hit the wall
14:48 SquirrelCZECH yes than it stops
14:48 robotustra at this point you'll have very odd readings
14:48 SquirrelCZECH but my idea is to tune everything to 25Hz
14:48 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: PID should take care of this case
14:49 robotustra whatis PID?
14:49 SquirrelCZECH algorithm to deal with fluent robotics movement
14:49 SquirrelCZECH it's pretty powerfull
14:49 SquirrelCZECH because it's "realtime" algorithm, you set threet integrals that define how it works
14:49 SquirrelCZECH and than, it works :D
14:50 SquirrelCZECH the idea, is that it senses states, it knows goal (defined by user), from goal-sense it calculates "error"
14:50 SquirrelCZECH and than it modifys "output" relatively to error, "last error" and "errors overall"
14:52 robotustra show me video with this algorythm
14:53 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: use udacity.com
14:53 SquirrelCZECH lesson robotics
14:53 SquirrelCZECH 6. part I suppose?
14:53 SquirrelCZECH or fifth?
14:54 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: there are a lot of videos about this thing, but it's not something "show me" unfortunetly :-/
14:55 SquirrelCZECH but you can google a lot of material about that
14:58 robotustra you spoke about this one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
15:00 robotustra I didn't know that I already know it
15:01 robotustra I have more complex task to solve
15:01 robotustra not just keeping equilibrum or smooth motion
15:26 SquirrelCZECH yes :-)
15:27 SquirrelCZECH robotustra: I supposet that it's the reason why bipets are so hard to build :D
15:27 uirrelCZECH personally would like to build something resembling skeleton of ani
15:27 SquirrelCZECH like, "wolflike" animals
15:27 SquirrelCZECH that would be awesome :D
15:30 robotustra http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O5KkregjJw
15:31 robotustra moped
15:32 SquirrelCZECH exaclty!
15:32 SquirrelCZECH :D
15:33 robotustra I think kangaroo would be better approach
15:45 robotustra or like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_AaBbnBbms&t=47
15:51 robotustra short review of future http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ceYP3USx1M&feature=player_detailpage
21:05 useless-afk http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-collects-millions-of-e-mail-address-books-globally/2013/10/14/8e58b5be-34f9-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html
21:05 useless-afk During a single day last year, the NSA’s Special Source Operations branch collected 444,743 e-mail address books from Yahoo, 105,068 from Hotmail, 82,857 from Facebook, 33,697 from Gmail and 22,881 from unspecified other providers, according to an internal NSA PowerPoint presentation.
21:07 theBear cool, they didn't get anything of mine
21:08 GargantuaSauce do you not use an unspecified other provider?
21:08 useless-afk as the clock ticks down to a possible U.S. debt default this week.
21:08 useless-afk The crisis shows that China and the rest of the world should start to “de-Americanize,” according to a strongly worded commentary from the Xinhua News Agency, China’s leading government-controlled news outlet.
21:08 ace4016 they clearly are targetting the wrong people then; AU is full of crooks!
21:08 ace4016 i jest :P
21:08 theBear yeah, but fortunately we don't have an nsa
21:08 ace4016 that you know of DUN DUN DUUUNN!
21:08 theBear i dunno, does the server in the next room count as unspecified other ?
21:09 theBear course that doesn't have my addresses
21:09 GargantuaSauce do you not send or receive traffic that goes through the US?
21:09 theBear trust me, i've been unofficially contracted for minor things over the years, tech policing here is archaic
21:09 useless-afk lol, the usa nsa and darpa has dozens of contracts inside Oz, if not 100's
21:09 theBear i dunno, doubt it
21:10 GargantuaSauce they have a big signals intelligence facility in NZ
21:11 useless-afk last i checked, there were near nothing for internet ppes out of Oz going straight north, NW, west, SW, S, SE, East (cept to NZ), and Oz had 3 sat and a few ocean cables to usa
21:11 GargantuaSauce if you think you are not subject to internet surveillance, you're wrong
21:11 GargantuaSauce fullstop
21:11 useless-afk 10 yrs ago i could track the worst of storms in the usa southwest by where the sat links to Oz were being re-routed out of
21:15 theBear i know i'm subject to it in some areas, but i'm unusually withdrawn and anonymous in what i do
21:16 theBear probly the majority of non-browsing-habit (sensitive stuff i use the onion, but i feel no need to abuse it) info comes from irc, i don't really err, type anywhere else
21:16 GargantuaSauce you also need to stop believing tor is secure because it is not
21:17 useless-afk you know they infi;trated Tor, and have several servers in Tor that they mine passing traffic from?
21:17 useless-afk they have identified users before
21:18 theBear it's secure enough, and i know
21:18 theBear it's not like i'm breaking any laws, just don't feel the need to be extremely public when i'm reading about growing mushrooms say
21:19 useless-afk or making ammonia? or finding high strength aluminum tubing for hexapod legs?
21:20 useless-afk at least you can use 2048 bit encryption without going to jail
21:20 theBear well err, i don't have any uses for ammonia, but yeah, that kinda thing
21:20 theBear heh, it's true
21:21 theBear if i REALLY wanted to do something a little dodgy, once or twice, i can aim a wifi dish across the park and hit a bunch of connections, some even wide open (when my net and mobile got cutoff a while back i used it to pay the bill online,) and if i REALLY wanted to do something sneaky, there wouldn't be any of that netcafe next to my house stuff, i'd go far and wide
21:22 GuShH theBear: my primary use for ammonia... darkening oak wood!
21:22 theBear but i don't do anything that bad, not even sure what i would do on the net that is that bad
21:22 useless-afk sell mushrooms ;-)
21:24 theBear hells no ! i could never be a good drug dealer cos if i get good drugs i keep them all for myself,specially psychadelics
21:26 useless-afk you think dealers sellt he good stuff and keep the bad stuff?
21:26 useless-afk well, my neighbors may be that stupid, i retract the question
21:26 useless-afk but they are getting away with it
21:26 eless-afk sh
21:27 theBear depends, there's a lotta different kinda dealers in this world, and the more professional they are, the closer they get to not using their own products at all
21:28 eless-afk nods,,, when it's a job allt he fun goes out o
21:28 theBear and in the non professional end there's all kinds of approaches and opinions involved
21:28 useless-afk so strange i know of no one doing or dealing
21:29 theBear heh, we move in different circles
21:30 GargantuaSauce drugs are bad mkay
21:31 theBear yep, i don't advocate them for anyone !
21:31 eless-afk hands GargantuaSauce an asprin and some Bai
21:31 GargantuaSauce more of an ibuprofen and rum guy
21:31 useless-afk ah, the hard drugs
21:32 theBear i can't have ibuprofen anymore, too many years of prescription muscle relaxers, it makes me throw up blood almost instantly
21:32 theBear :(
21:32 useless-afk yea,, for a while there i thought it was normal to wake up and vomit blood
21:33 theBear funny how when yer at a stage in life that you do that kinda thing, it just doesn't seem to be that bigger problem
21:36 useless-afk when i started taking ibupro and tylenol again, i felt more how they hit me
21:36 useless-afk they are insignificantly weak "pain meds", they also sap strength and self-healing
21:37 useless-afk it's like if you have a injury that is immediate and swelling is involved, and you cannot move around anyhow, then ibupro may be worthwhile
21:38 useless-afk but a week off it proved worthwhile, proved it wasn't worth taking to try and stop any pain i have
21:38 theBear mmm, or if you can take it without ill effects and cannot move around indefinately
21:39 useless-afk if you can't move around , you likely need healing, ibupro slows your body's natural responces, including repair
21:39 useless-afk i found out by experiment
21:39 useless-afk ymmv
21:40 theBear mmm,i try to stick to only the nerve receptor bending pills these days, among short term help, they sposed to be teaching my nerve system how to behave again
21:40 eless-afk
21:47 useless-afk fwiw, i also found i had no known iodine intake, and apparently need more than normal protien intake, and i was being a good lil vegetarian, which was a big problem
22:20 theBear heh, lack of food comes long before worrying about diet in this house
22:23 useless-afk i know that feeling too, meat costs too much, but "sports mix" for adding to water can be 60 grams of protien per glass
22:23 useless-afk i am convinced a few months on that fixed my shoulders, and docs had said only surgery and inserts would fix them