#robotics Logs
Oct 02 2013
#robotics Calendar
00:06 GuShH I also think a new box is required... they should be old enough to handle, surely.
00:06 ShH hates semi slr cam
00:06 MrCurious the HELL is that
00:06 MrCurious is kitten?
00:07 GuShH yeah just the kittens, and one staring at me
00:07 MrCurious no its a PILE of kittens
00:07 MrCurious they are blind still
00:07 MrCurious dont make em open their eyes
00:07 GuShH did I?
00:07 GuShH they're on a dark quiet warm place
00:07 katsmeow-afk keep in shade, no direct light
00:09 GuShH I could not take a single good photo with that camera, it was in all-manual mode, I know photography... but it's these friggin semi slr cameras that are meant for idiots that just won't take good pictures, the sensors are too small... it's all makeshift crap.
00:09 orlok you mean like the 3/4 cameras with removable lenses but no mirror?
00:10 GuShH http://gushh.net/tmp/dsc00494.jpg
00:10 GuShH it's a sony hx100-something-something
00:10 GuShH orlok: not mine, wouldn't buy one
00:11 GuShH even though I'm doing manual focus and I'm right on, it looks fuzzy, noisy... lots of chromatic aberration too on other pics
00:11 GuShH then again these cameras are for causal users, not for anything serious.
00:11 GuShH the HX300 seems better... still, it wants to be something it's not.
00:12 orlok high ISO, not stopped down, bad focus...
00:14 GuShH focus is just right, it seems to have a mind of it's own when it comes to ISO, I had it on 100 all the time, it kept changing it and I was in "all manual" mode
00:14 GuShH these cameras are toys, you never really get control of it.
00:14 KongfuPanda hi GuShH?
00:14 ngfuPanda that question marks shouldn't be t
00:15 GuShH another problem is the viewfinder LCD, too low resolution... almost painful to use.
00:15 GuShH orlok: I took several, it won't get crisper than that.. it's how it shoots...
00:15 orlok yup
00:15 lok has a
00:16 katsmeow-afk http://i.imgur.com/WKnCXv6.jpg
00:16 GuShH that's an even worse picture!
00:18 GuShH orlok: if I had to choose I would get a used 40D any day over the HX100 or even the HX300... they're silly toys.
00:18 GuShH I don't even know why they exist
00:18 katsmeow-afk http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2013/10/01/foto/sommergibile-67642592/1/#1
00:18 GuShH get this, they give you 50X optical on the HX300... must be their only selling point?
00:19 GuShH reminds me of consumer chainsaws "20 inch bar!" (38cc engine)
00:20 GuShH The premise that a single lens can suit all of your needs is just laughable.
00:22 rue_bed katsmeow-afk, some of those sidewalk paintings look really 3d
00:22 GuShH orlok: what's the shutter count on your 40d?
00:23 rue_bed cheap digital cameras came out, then cell phones, nobody knows how to make a good camera anymor and nobody knows now to use one
00:23 ShH disag
00:24 katsmeow-afk it wasn't a painting on the sidewalk
00:24 GuShH good cameras, lenses, etc. exist.
00:24 GuShH they are just too costly for most people
00:24 GuShH so compromises are made
00:25 GuShH semi reflex are just an introductory subset... I just don't think they're helping anyone at all, they're abominations.
00:28 GuShH yep, it was using iso 800 even though it was set to 100 or 200 (eyeballed it)
00:29 GuShH cameras that know better heh useless crap.
00:30 orlok GuShH: Dunno - Good question. I leave it running taking pictures via bash script.
00:31 GuShH sadly shutters have a finite life
00:31 orlok DSLR's are servicible however.
00:31 GuShH how much would it cost to get a new one in?
00:31 orlok the 40D had a nice sweet spot between sensitivity and pixel size too
00:32 orlok but the mirror/shutter is actually a bit of a drawback for me.
00:32 GuShH you can try EOSInfo to get the shutter count
00:32 orlok I'd like to go for a specialised sensor one day
00:32 GuShH What's your application?
00:32 orlok yeah, its available in the menu too i think
00:32 GuShH should be
00:32 orlok astrophotography
00:33 tsmeow-afk needs a small (spy cam small) fixed iris, able to focus full screen NTSC display 8x10cm from 15-
00:33 orlok GuShH: people mod EOS cameras with TEC's and replace the IR filters
00:33 katsmeow-afk the camera find something dim, "opens the iris", and then the actually bright spots are blooming badly
00:34 GuShH orlok: what's the big deal with the specialized cameras? they cost a fortune
00:34 orlok auto-gain?
00:34 katsmeow-afk there's no controls on it
00:34 GuShH bigger sensors?
00:34 orlok GuShH: higher sensitivity, lower noise, calibration, etc.
00:35 orlok GuShH: not always bigger, its a combination of sensor and pixel size, plus colour vs mono
00:35 orlok that combined with the focal length of the optics, plus the wavelengths you are trying to image
00:35 GuShH maybe one day you'll take a picture of danfrederiksen leaving earth
00:35 orlok lol
00:36 orlok he gets mentioned in #astronomy too
00:36 GuShH most likely ufo related
00:36 orlok i havent seen him since he told me to go and kill myself years ago
00:36 orlok nah, he has dieas on creating telescope optics
00:36 orlok dieas? ideas
00:36 tsmeow-afk won't bother uploading the pics
00:36 GuShH everyone has ideas
00:37 orlok katsmeow-afk: sounds like auto gain control?
00:37 orlok oh, yeah, "well depth"
00:39 katsmeow-afk i don't care what it sounds like, i need a pointer to the device i need as i described it, and i was willing to upload pics showing the problem
00:39 GuShH yey it won't rain until tomorrow, thursday... I should be able to finish the lathe stand by the night, assuming I don't get all autistic on work matters
00:39 GuShH AND the cat doesn't step on the wet paint again.
00:40 ShH thinks katsmeow-afk still has him on ig
00:40 katsmeow-afk aw well, this is why i deleted my website, i ask for assistance from epople who know the issue,a nd i get nothing
00:41 GuShH ...
00:41 GuShH always the same
00:44 orlok katsmeow-afk: I'm not sure if there is any way around it without using a real time video processing type unit
00:45 katsmeow-afk my Finepix S700 does a fine job of taking the pic, but that's a lot of money for what i want to do, i'd haveto buy seveal more
00:47 GargantuaSauce i have some $7 camera SoCs from fleabay
00:47 orlok do you have a model number/etc of the pinhole type camera you are using currently? iirc, most will have a pin to tie high/low to enable/disable things like AWB/AGC
00:48 GargantuaSauce they have onboard microprocessors with colour control, focus detection, etc
00:48 GargantuaSauce i don't know of any specific models on the higher end but there's no way some decent ones aren't available
00:48 orlok GargantuaSauce: but they very quickly get expensive
00:48 GargantuaSauce this is true
00:49 orlok the mallincams will do on the fly stacking of a video stream to produce a single still image thats the equivilant of a long exposure
00:50 orlok so its like you get a picture where the image quality/light collected is increasing over time
00:50 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-Powered-Miniature-B-W-CMOS-Security-Camera-/250908021632
00:50 KongfuPanda GuShH, hello
00:50 katsmeow-afk i don't want a picture, i want ntsc video,, i can grab frames from it
00:51 GargantuaSauce does it absolutely have to be ntsc? it is no longer 1990 you know
00:52 katsmeow-afk ntsc is easier to deal with , it's a b&w camera,, but yu can convince me to go to some other feed if i can interface to it
00:53 ngfuPanda pokes GuShH, h
00:53 orlok Automatic exposure/gain/white balance
00:53 katsmeow-afk there is no controls on it
00:54 orlok yeah, its likely to be a solder bridge or similar
00:57 orlok actually, AGC should prevent that from being an issue - but i guess it depends on the overall gain, etc
00:59 GuShH hi KongfuPanda
00:59 KongfuPanda Ah, finally !
00:59 GuShH sorry... was making a machiatto
00:59 KongfuPanda what's that?
01:00 KongfuPanda ooo
01:00 GuShH espresso shot and frothed milk
01:00 KongfuPanda looks good on google
01:00 KongfuPanda GuShH, what time is it there?
01:00 MrCurious Hanover Fiste: He never did... anything that was... illegal...[pauses]Hanover Fiste: Unless you count all the times he sold dope disguised as a nun.
01:00 GuShH 2:45AM I should be asleep
01:00 MrCurious heavy metal was a classic movie
01:00 GuShH KongfuPanda: this one doesn't look like the ones those gay ass baristas make in those gay ass competitions, it's just tasty.
01:01 KongfuPanda It's 6.45 here, I woke up at 4.30 am today because I fell asleep at 8 pm yesterday after a big dinner (blood probably went to stomach and made me extremely sleepy). But I had a very very good sleep, I'm very active now. Usually I wake up at 9am or something. I hope I can wake up earlier from now on
01:01 GuShH I can only pour a heart, any sort of latte art made with a simple pour is dark magic to me, and most of the latte art you'll see is made with tiny spoons and crap, not poured straight.
01:02 KongfuPanda GuShH, if you need to sleep, why are you drinking coffee?
01:02 GuShH good question
01:02 GuShH because I like it?
01:04 KongfuPanda I need one of those too
01:04 KongfuPanda do I need some special equipment to make it?
01:04 GuShH espresso machine with a steam wand
01:04 GuShH freshly ground coffee beans would be ideal
01:05 KongfuPanda I only have instant coffee :(
01:05 KongfuPanda :D
01:05 ShH fr
01:05 GuShH then again I'm a bit of a coffee nerd
01:05 GuShH not that I spend a lot of money on machines or beans... but I try to make good-enough coffee
01:06 GuShH one day I'll get a banged up "industrial grade" espresso machine
01:06 GuShH and I'll probably be found dead near it the day after -- caffeine overdose --
01:08 KongfuPanda yeah
01:08 GuShH still using my first espresso machine...
01:08 GuShH it turns into a hobby...
01:10 GuShH KongfuPanda: have you finished any projects lately?
01:14 KongfuPanda GuShH, naa, I need to replace the servos on my robot, and my friend wants to design my robot parts in CAD and print them on a 3D printer (it's made of wood atm). But I 'm building this robot as a hobby and in the last months I've had too much work in the lab , and had to write a 60 page report
01:14 KongfuPanda I'm replacing the crappy plastic servos S90 or something to metal servos MG90
01:15 KongfuPanda 20 plastic servos are broken after 1 year
01:15 KongfuPanda "cheapest is the dearest in the world"
01:16 orlok KongfuPanda: dependiing on the design, its possible to just replace the gears with metal ones
01:16 KongfuPanda orlok, well, these are micro servos. And I can't be bothered :)
01:17 orlok heh, yeah, its a pain
01:18 orlok i bought a pile of cheap servos that had the motors, control boards and pot's gutted from them.. but they had good not metal but not plastic gears, and metal bearings
01:18 orlok whenever a plastic servo gear breaks, i transplant the motor, pot and PCB into one of those cases
01:19 KongfuPanda I see, that may be a good idea
01:20 KongfuPanda right, I need to get ready to go to work
01:20 KongfuPanda cya :)
02:41 chord lets talk about starcraft 2 pathfinding
02:41 Jak_o_Shadows What about it?
02:43 chord how is it done
02:43 Jak_o_Shadows I would've assumed A* or something.
02:43 chord DETAILS
02:43 chord not high level
02:43 Jak_o_Shadows http://www.ai-blog.net/archives/000152.html is a classic.
02:44 chord already seen that
02:44 chord need details
02:44 chord not high level
02:46 Jak_o_Shadows Well, why starcraft 2? I wouldn't imagine it's the most relevant to the real world
02:54 Jak_o_Shadows http://wiki.arcol.hu/arcol-hu-hot-end-v30-assembly Why crimp everything?
03:05 zap0 wirewrap is good enough ;)
03:06 Jak_o_Shadows I would solder stuff, but that's just me?
03:07 Jak_o_Shadows Also, the heating bit, you'd just PWM it to get the right temp eh?
03:18 GargantuaSauce the joint is subject to pretty significant thermal stress as well as the mechanical variety
03:20 GargantuaSauce so solder isn't necessarily the best choice
03:20 GargantuaSauce that said, the thermistor and heating resistor on my first hotend are soldered and it hasn't failed
03:21 Jak_o_Shadows ok. I am currently trying to figure out if I need to buy a stepper for the extruder head, or if the couple I have will work.
03:21 Jak_o_Shadows right. Not a hard thing to fix anyway.
03:22 Jak_o_Shadows They like to refer to NEMA X, which doesn't actually tell you.
03:25 GargantuaSauce which extruder?
03:26 Jak_o_Shadows Wade's Geared Extruder, http://reprap.org/wiki/Wade%27s_Geared_Extruder , but I am completely open at the moment.
03:28 Jak_o_Shadows I have a stepper with 39.2 mN*m holding, 23.2mN*m/800pps pull out, and another with 39.4mN*m hold, 18.1 pull out at 200pps
03:28 Jak_o_Shadows They both have annoyingly large step angle, 7.5, so hence just extruder. The first is bipolar, the second is unipolar.
03:30 GargantuaSauce well that is right on the edge of what that page says will suffice...it will probably work but might limit your printing speed
03:31 Jak_o_Shadows The stepper motor is waaaay smaller than a nema 17/14, so at least that lightens the load there.
03:42 Jak_o_Shadows What? "For Wade's Geared Extruder (most widely used one as of 2012) it is suggested to use motor that is capable of creating a holding torque of at least 40 N·cm." Is it just me, or do they not know how to use metric prefixes?
04:15 GargantuaSauce N*cm is used a lot and yes it's a damn stupid unit
04:15 GargantuaSauce better than kg*cm though!
04:20 Jak_o_Shadows damn right.
04:20 Jak_o_Shadows Bloody ozf-in though....
08:52 GuShH that chord guy ...
09:25 GuShH eBay "Free shipping on Victoria’s Secret lingerie and fashion" quick, grab your credit cards!
09:49 rue_house notice, all clothing from china is only large enough to fit a barbie doll!
14:14 katsmeow-afk http://york.craigslist.org/ele/4104862828.html
19:49 rue_house cart, huh
21:18 ShH pokes MrCur
21:58 MrCurious GuShH: you will wake the baby!
21:58 MrCurious trying to get these atom computers to wake on RTC, then config linux to shutdown at bedtime
21:59 MrCurious to minimize power usage while keeping them just working
21:59 Tom_itx how many atom boards do you have?
21:59 Tom_itx D510 or D525?
22:04 MrCurious zotan and 2
22:05 Tom_itx mine are small
22:05 Tom_itx the D525
22:05 Tom_itx fanless
22:05 MrCurious i put fans in mine
22:05 MrCurious they get hot
22:06 Tom_itx it doesn't run continuous
22:06 Tom_itx this itx has a fan
22:06 Tom_itx it's on 24/7
22:06 MrCurious http://www.sconemad.com/deconstruction/zotac_ionitx/ionitx_back.jpg
22:06 MrCurious looks like that ish
22:07 MrCurious yay! it just popped on!
22:07 Tom_itx that's nice n small
22:07 MrCurious now to config it so linux knows the rtc is local time
22:07 MrCurious yup
22:07 MrCurious was for a robot
22:07 MrCurious until
22:08 MrCurious i realized it takes like 30 r 40W at 12v
22:08 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom_index.php
22:08 MrCurious i hang mine on the wall
22:09 robotustra old'n slow?
22:12 MrCurious they are slowish 1.8 dual core atoms
22:12 MrCurious and other is 1.6 dual core
22:14 robotustra and eat like krokodile?
22:14 robotustra 10W? 15W?
22:15 robotustra not acceptable fot mobile robotix applications
22:22 MrCurious 40W or 40W
22:22 MrCurious thats why i switched to ARM
22:23 rue_house I will nt ebay. I will not ebay. I will not ebay. I will not ebay....
22:23 Faek Lies!
22:23 Faek Ebay is life
22:24 rue_house must... not.... click....ebay....
22:24 rue_house there is nothing I need, my life is complete...
22:25 robotustra rue
22:25 MrCurious ZOTAC ZBOX
22:25 robotustra DO NOT EBAY
22:25 MrCurious yep
22:25 MrCurious worship at the church of shiny
22:25 MrCurious great. linux thinks utc is localtime and localtime is utc
22:30 GargantuaSauce the solution is simple
22:30 robotustra rue_house: http://www.wdlsystems.com/Single-Board-Computers/Pico-ITX/
22:30 GargantuaSauce move to china
22:31 rue_house OMG OMG OMG motherboard for $18!!!!!!!
22:31 robotustra http://us.kontron.com/products/boards+and+mezzanines/embedded+sbc/pitx+25+sbc/pitxsp.html
22:31 rue_house I love finding out its just an adapter :)
22:32 rue_house these are stupid expensive, what are they for?
22:32 robotustra they are for heavy duty conditions
22:32 robotustra industrial pcs
22:32 rue_house ah
22:32 robotustra or low power like 5W only
22:33 robotustra the last one is atom 1.1 Ghz, 5W average
22:33 robotustra and small in size
22:34 robotustra I hope to poke it into this: http://postimg.org/image/8dygbc2nh/full/
22:35 GargantuaSauce is there a particular reason why we're focusing on x86
22:36 robotustra yes, because ARM has still shitty performance
22:36 rue_house yea, LOTS of software
22:36 rue_house easy isntall
22:36 robotustra and bad linux support
22:36 rue_house lots of tools
22:37 robotustra full software stack
22:37 robotustra for x86 compartible
22:37 robotustra atom win and arm
22:37 robotustra any
22:42 MrCurious i like arm
22:42 MrCurious not all arms suck
22:42 robotustra hope
22:45 katsmeow-afk Walmart has anotehr robot dog and still no cats
23:28 MrCurious http://www.engel.com/
23:28 MrCurious cheap 1.6 dual core arm with a built in 2mp camera and wifi and bt
23:28 MrCurious $62
23:32 katsmeow-afk new definition of "cheap"