#robotics Logs

Oct 01 2013

00:53 MrCurious what you think of that...
01:08 GuShH MrCurious: toy
01:09 GuShH complete waste of money
01:10 GuShH looks just like a unimat
01:11 MrCurious i figured
01:12 GuShH If I ever find a complete, NOS of their best model I might get it, assuming I've got the spare change at the time. Just because I wanted one when it came out many years ago, but it's really just a toy.
01:12 MrCurious NOS?
01:12 GuShH new old stock
01:12 GuShH NoS?
01:12 MrCurious NO2?
01:13 GuShH no, NOS.
01:13 MrCurious oh
01:14 GuShH taigs are "precision" unimats...
01:15 GuShH if you want to mill small parts and you are thinking about a CNC convertion, might be a good starting point then.
01:15 GuShH conversion? I should be asleep.
01:16 MrCurious hmmm
01:16 MrCurious looked interesting as a toy
01:16 GuShH it is
01:17 GuShH I still think it's a great product, the problem is that I always wanted to see a bigger, better version.
01:17 MrCurious could always adapt it to work with bigger 80:20 stock
01:17 orlok sigh
01:17 orlok i'd love a mill
01:17 orlok and a lathe
01:17 orlok not sure what for anymore
01:17 GuShH MrCurious has a mill and I have a lathe!
01:18 orlok i have a dremel in a press mount
01:18 MrCurious i have a lathe too
01:18 GuShH if you bring in your tooling and stock you can use his mill for the cost of one beer an hour.
01:18 MrCurious never mastered it
01:18 GuShH wood lathes don't count
01:19 GuShH I have one of those, it mostly serves as a big shelf and a very thin table to put things on when it's not in use
01:19 GuShH (most of the time)
01:20 GuShH MrCurious: there are only a couple basic techniques to turn wood...
01:20 GuShH a skew gouge is all you need to begin with, even a chisel ground at an angle will do.
01:20 MrCurious i think my fail was to use a 2x2 pine that was too dry and pretty much shattered and chattered
01:21 MrCurious i have 2 sets of gouges
01:21 MrCurious i could use a live end and a better chuck
01:21 MrCurious but i lost interest
01:21 MrCurious its a cat perch now
01:21 GuShH I turn between centers
01:21 GuShH no need for chucking
01:21 MrCurious i also should try some wet wood :D
01:21 GuShH only for bowls.. I don't turn those
01:21 GuShH greenwood is fun, but messy
01:21 GuShH cuts like butter
01:21 MrCurious or a better wood like oak or walnut
01:22 GuShH leaves wet shavings everywhere though
01:22 GuShH I've mostly turned white oak, which I cut myself...
01:22 GuShH the only part I hate is the roughing stage.
01:22 GuShH interrupted cuts in general.
01:22 MrCurious yeah
01:23 GuShH the second part is the drying, a lot of the parts I've made have cracked
01:23 MrCurious i may pick it up again one day when i have caught up on other shit
01:23 MrCurious do you put them in plastic bags
01:23 MrCurious and add a slight pinch of desicant a week
01:23 GuShH just on a box with the shavings
01:23 GuShH the idea is to slow down the drying process as much as possible
01:24 MrCurious hell, some lovely tung il
01:24 MrCurious oil
01:24 GuShH and to start with a proper cut... which I rarely do
01:24 GuShH dry wood even with a very sharp gouge will shed off a lot of dust, I hate that.
01:24 MrCurious maybe i should try again with a 8" long stock rather than trying 2.5' long for first try
01:25 GuShH that's the good thing about green wood, no dust.
01:25 GuShH if you were catching, maybe you were not on center line (you should be slightly above) and you were not using the gouge at the correct angle
01:25 MrCurious since the m2.5x8 screws were wrong size... re-ordered some m2x8
01:26 MrCurious given it was my first ever turning....
01:26 MrCurious i can guarantee you i was not doing it right for more than 35us at a time
01:26 GuShH pfft
01:26 GuShH you'll pick it up in no time
01:26 GuShH only then it'll become enjoyable
01:27 GuShH I've a lot of crap around the wood lathe right now so that's another reason why I haven't used it this month..
01:27 MrCurious dunno... fucking up gloriously was pretty dadmn fun
01:27 MrCurious its all about making chips
01:27 MrCurious the end product is just like finding a prize in the cerial
01:28 GuShH is it?
01:28 ShH had at least a couple incidents with the wood l
01:29 GuShH caught my thumb slightly with the spur center while sanding, had a bowl fly off (screws on faceplate were too small) and I've had at least one parting accident where the part flew right at my face after a catch.
01:30 GuShH on another instance, pretty much the first time I ever attempted to part a piece, it flew off across the room
01:30 GuShH fun fun fun!
01:33 MrCurious early days learning the router, i tried to shoot wood through windows
01:34 MrCurious climb cutting is bad, unless it really is reuired
01:35 GuShH how about you use proper clamping methods next time? :p
01:36 GuShH zZzZzz
01:37 MrCurious router istable mounted
01:37 MrCurious work piece slides past
01:37 MrCurious was a home madetable
01:37 MrCurious now i have a sliding table router table
01:37 MrCurious harder to screw up on that
01:37 GuShH how about you clean the butter off your hands then
01:37 ShH wonders if MrCurious ever uses his t
01:38 rue_house GuShH, encourage people or we will squash you :)
01:38 GuShH rue_house: I did, I encouraged MrCurious to try wood turning again...
01:38 MrCurious wonder if you can turn aluminum
01:38 MrCurious how can that possibly go wrong
01:38 e_house spins a
01:39 GuShH not really, maybe with a file...
01:40 GuShH MrCurious: So I'm at this hardware store asking for a 17 or was it a 19mm socket... anyway, he only had some old brand in stock and out of nowhere the clerk began to tell me the story of the brand, how they went bankrupt, etc. And then came the shocker, he has a COLLECTOR customer... the dude collects tools, he doesn't use them... he collects them.
01:40 GuShH I didn't know such people existed.
01:40 MrCurious you should see my collection
01:40 GuShH he actually walks into the store once a week and asks to see if they've got any "new tools", if he doesn't have it in his collection, he buys it
01:40 GuShH they don't even open the packaging.
01:41 GuShH like starwars collectors...
01:41 ShH shi
01:41 GuShH MrCurious: tools are meant to be used! at least once dammit!
01:42 GuShH there are also... gasp... chainsaw collectors
01:42 orlok wtf
01:42 MrCurious i have used all mine at least once
01:42 GuShH I can see the appeal in that, as long as they fire 'em up and cut some wood now and then.
01:42 GuShH not just shelf queens.
01:43 MrCurious my chainsaw is on a 12' stick with a 2stroke motor on other end
01:43 MrCurious perfect for zombie defense
01:43 GuShH orlok: yeah, some people just buy tools to look at them, they don't even know how to use them.
01:43 orlok hmm i could do with one of those, damn trees
01:43 rue_house if someone on death row recieved a potentially fatal wound a day beofre he was sue to be executed, would they treat and recover him first before executing him?
01:43 GuShH you can use either one of mine
01:43 rue_house sue/due
01:43 orlok rue_house: pretty sure they would
01:43 GuShH but you provide the bar oil, the mix oil and the gas!
01:43 GuShH and maybe even a new sparkplug.
01:44 GuShH oh and candy, you need to pay me with candy.
01:44 GuShH rue_house: they should
01:44 rue_house becasue it would be cruel no tto?
01:44 rue_house "your recovered, to the chair with you"
01:45 rue_house !?!
01:45 MrCurious rue in america, yes they will restore you so they can kill you
01:45 orlok have to be alive and healthy before the doctor signs off on it i'm sure
01:45 GuShH nah they would be buying time with screwdrivers otherwise
01:45 orlok GuShH: they are segregated on death row
01:45 GuShH you can't kill me, I had a screwdriver up my arse yesterday! I get one more week!
01:46 rue_house how recovered? what if it was an 18 month coma?
01:46 GuShH they'll give you 18 months worth of juice then!
01:46 rue_house anyhow, strange thought
01:47 GuShH orlok: you can still injure yourself
01:47 GuShH what are the rules on a last meal?
01:47 GuShH can I have one of each?
01:47 GuShH including the guard's momma
01:48 GuShH does it have to be a real dish, because I invented a dish with "one of each" and that's what I would like.
01:49 GuShH the concept behind the one-of-each stack of food is that you can use it to escape from prison by climbing it! total genius.
01:51 orlok GuShH: depends on the state one of them doesnt do it anymore
01:52 orlok as some guy ordered a pile of stuff and didnt touch it
01:52 GuShH so?
01:53 GuShH I would order one of each and then share it with all the guards, hoping they would let me escape later that night!
01:53 orlok "Twelve serves of fugu from the apprentice thanks!"
01:54 GuShH lol
05:43 _bryan http://i.imgur.com/cgBuO2t.jpg
08:28 katsmeow-afk MrCurious, speaking more of hydropower dam on the Nile, http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/09/130927-grand-ethiopian-renaissance-dam-egypt-water-wars/
13:29 katsmeow-afk what's more popular, which is "the wave of the future"? HDMI or DVI ?
13:30 tsmeow-afk is going to assume it's not SVGA, since that's all she
13:40 SquirrelCZECH nah
13:40 SquirrelCZECH hard to pick electronics for reprap
13:48 Tom_itx why?
13:48 Tom_itx that's not so hard
13:56 GuShH define hard
15:41 SquirrelCZECH GuShH: so many different choices
15:41 GargantuaSauce i use melzi
16:40 delinquentme do you guys know if thor labs happen to have constant screw sizes ?
16:49 robotustra what is thor labs?
17:03 GuShH robotustra: who knows, maybe a lab where they test thor's new hammers
17:06 GuShH robotustra: thoughts on making a sleeve for a pop riveter so that it won't mark the work should it slip once the rivet pops?, I thought about PTFE rod, but I don't have any... I would otherwise make a bushing so it acts as a protective cap near the nozzle
17:06 GuShH got a new riveter, figured the old stanley would not last another 200-300 rivets.
17:06 Tom_itx plastic wouldn't hold up in that application
17:07 GuShH Tom_itx: ptfe is pretty strong though
17:07 GuShH they're alu rivets, 3.5mhh
17:07 GuShH mm
17:07 Tom_itx not stronger than aluminum or steel rivets
17:07 GuShH it's a compression application
17:07 GuShH if I had any we could test it out...
17:08 GuShH my old method involves masking tape
17:08 GuShH think "stencil" made out of masking tape that you move around as you pop the rivets, it's not perfect but it works -- however it's time consuming
17:08 GuShH my problem is most likely a poor technique or it's just the way it is for these hand riveters
17:09 ShH has added a pneumatic riveting tool to his wish
17:11 GuShH I guess I should stay away from cheap ones
17:11 GuShH But as with an impact tool, if I won't be using it all day long... is it worth the extra cost?
17:14 GuShH Tom_itx: did you make the camlock modification to your tailstock?
17:16 Tom_itx heck no
17:17 Tom_itx use real rivets
17:24 GuShH Tom_itx: huh? you mean solid rivets?
17:24 GuShH not a chance.
17:25 GuShH I'm not making a bridge!
17:25 Tom_itx but think how nice it would look
17:25 GuShH ship me a blacksmith and we'll talk
17:33 robotustra http://maholet.livejournal.com/31987.html
17:36 Tom_itx at least the pics are in english
17:36 robotustra :)
17:36 robotustra sure
17:40 robotustra small progress
20:05 GuShH robotustra: third pic won't load :(
20:06 ShH made a bondo requiring boo
20:07 GuShH something about going on the fly a la rue that made me forget about the rear "feet" on the stand, which means I drilled the holes for the sheet metal offset about 40mm down...
20:36 chord you guys are experts at path finding right?
20:37 Tom_itx yup
20:37 ace4016 SLAM!
20:37 GargantuaSauce i'm whatever you want me to be, babe
20:37 ace4016 dup duh duh, dup duh duh, let the boys be boys
20:38 ace4016 get it? eh? eh?
20:38 chord so you guys can explain how starcraft 2 does its path finding?
20:38 Tom_itx nope
20:38 chord why not
20:38 Tom_itx that would disclose trade secrets
20:38 orlok it sends all the unit and map data off to a cluster of chinese orphans
20:38 orlok they do it
20:39 ace4016 it probably uses navmeshes to navigate
20:39 Tom_itx but we all know how
20:39 orlok whenever you are playing, even single player, you are realy plaing multiplayer against a dorm room full or chinese orphans
20:39 GargantuaSauce yeah they split up the terrain into a graph of navigable regions
20:39 GargantuaSauce http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijkstra's_algorithm and do that
20:39 chord blogs seem to indicate that it uses navmesh with post processing funnel filter, but how does that guarantee optimality
20:39 orlok no, you are wrong
20:39 orlok ITS ALL ORPHANS.
20:39 GargantuaSauce play starcraft 2 for 20 minutes and tell me it uses optimal pathing
20:39 chord are you guys like all high on marijuana
20:40 chord it feels like starcraft 2 always gives optimal path around an obstacle
20:40 ace4016 you realize that A*/Dijkstra's is about optimality, right?
20:40 orlok chord: thats because the orphans get whipped if they fuck up
20:41 ace4016 before being used in path finding, they were linear programming algorithms (programming in this case is a mathematical term meaning optimization)
20:41 ace4016 so yes. the solution will seem optimal; probably because it is
20:41 ace4016 for whatever weight function was applied
20:42 chord so blog says starcraft 2 uses a delaunay triangualation for its navmesh, that won't always give shortest path, and also points of the triangulation are part of the navmesh
20:42 chord what points of the triangulation are part of the navmesh
20:43 chord you guys are suppose to be experts
20:43 chord where are the experts
20:44 ace4016 not really; robotics doesn't use the same things as video games
20:44 ace4016 video games have this nice way of pregenerating data and baking solutions
20:44 ace4016 it's largely cheating
20:45 ace4016 also, #gamedev on this network, or #gamedev on Afternet.org will probably be able to answer intimate details about all that
20:45 chord nope
20:45 chord those guys are all hyper obsessed with OPENGL
20:46 orlok yay OpenGL
20:46 chord ace4016: what do you add onto the navmesh to be able to handle fat units
20:46 ace4016 the ones on freenode or afternet?
20:46 chord to be able to tell that fat uints can't squeeze through tiny spaces
20:47 chord so how does a navmesh handle units of different sizes
20:47 ace4016 sometimes nothing; you use multiple techniques. i didn't read up on how blizzard went about it
20:47 GargantuaSauce it would have a separate navmesh for each 'accessibility class' of unit
20:48 ace4016 there's a ton of ways to do it really
20:48 GargantuaSauce or each node would contain information about which units could access it
20:48 GargantuaSauce etc
20:48 chord whats the generic way that navmeshes deal with different unit sizes
20:49 GargantuaSauce there is no generic way, every video game has a subtly different implementation really
20:49 ace4016 there is not generic way
20:49 ace4016 games don't have generic solutions
20:49 chord GargantuaSauce: so what happens when a new building is constructed, is the navmesh locally recomputed for EVERY unit size
20:49 ace4016 life typically does not have cookie cutter solutions, unless making cookies
20:50 GargantuaSauce all it has to do is remove each node occupied by the building
20:50 GargantuaSauce remove or more likely disable
20:51 GargantuaSauce i've worked with a FOSS rts game that handles all this pretty flexibly, to the point where deformable terrain works
20:51 chord oh good good good
20:51 chord so you can explain the details to me
20:51 chord thanks bro
20:51 chord you're awesome
20:51 GargantuaSauce i can link you to its source
20:51 GuShH this is not #gamedev
20:52 MrCurious i like games!
20:52 chord gushh you hate starcraft?
20:52 GuShH no comment
20:52 GuShH And you'd have to be living a pretty sorry ass life to "hate" a game
20:52 GargantuaSauce GuShH hates everything that is good and beautiful in the world
20:52 chord gargantuasauce link link link
20:52 chord and please say the code is not c++
20:52 GargantuaSauce oh it is
20:52 ace4016 he hates it with the burning intensity of 7 red dwarfs
20:52 GuShH GargantuaSauce: Must be the reason why I don't hate you?
20:52 chord NOOOOOOOOOOO
20:52 MrCurious american government is taking a huge chance with this shutdown.... the people may notice they dont need them...
20:53 GargantuaSauce it even has a wonderful custom meta-object system you get to decipher
20:53 GuShH MrCurious: #FOXNEWS
20:53 MrCurious hisssssss BACK SPAWN OF SATAN
20:53 GuShH chord: cpp is industry standard
20:53 GuShH bend over already.
20:53 GargantuaSauce https://github.com/spring/spring/tree/develop/rts chord
20:53 GargantuaSauce have fun :V
20:54 chord ewww total annihilation
20:54 GuShH liek totally omg
20:54 GuShH I see Lua, that's a good start
20:54 ShH slaps chord around for good measure and goes back to drillin' s
20:54 chord Gargantuasauce where in the code should I first look
20:54 GargantuaSauce sim/Path
20:55 GuShH < 5�C outside, darn it's cold
20:57 GuShH Tom_itx: are there any non obvious sources of brass and bronze stock?
20:57 Tom_itx like what?
20:57 GuShH I have a supplier but they're in the other side of the country, the rest are individuals selling whatever leftovers they've got..
20:58 chord_ ok I got disconnected
20:58 chord_ what was your answer
20:58 GuShH chord_: he died
20:58 chord_ where do I look in code first
20:58 GuShH sim/Path
20:59 Tom_itx GuShH, sheet or bar?
20:59 GuShH bar
20:59 Tom_itx i have a bit of scrap
20:59 Tom_itx up to about 2.25"
21:00 chord_ so GargantuaSauce you worked on spring that means I can convince you to work on starcraft 2 clone since starcraft 2 sucks shit we need to make the right successor of brood war
21:00 ace4016 lol...
21:00 GargantuaSauce uhhh lemme think about that
21:00 GargantuaSauce no
21:00 chord_ why not
21:00 chord_ you don't like starcraft?
21:01 GargantuaSauce you are not going to sell me on this
21:01 chord_ so what made you work on spring then?
21:02 ace4016 haha, i remember you now chord_
21:02 GargantuaSauce a past interest
21:02 chord_ no you don't
21:02 ace4016 you were banned from #gamedev...possibly both of them :P
21:02 chord_ you must be misremembering
21:03 chord_ GargantuaSauce: why are you no longer interested
21:03 GargantuaSauce why does it matter
21:04 chord_ come on bro tell me what happened
21:04 GargantuaSauce i moved on years ago, now i do....robotics oddly enough
21:05 katsmeow-afk mmmm, odd robotics
21:06 chord_ damn it you got married didn't you
21:07 GargantuaSauce no i got bored of writing code that has no bearing on reality
21:07 orlok you could work on Golgotha
21:07 orlok i think the source for that was released
21:07 orlok it was by crack.com
21:08 orlok creators of Abuse
21:09 Triffid_Hunter abuse was awesome, esp the editor.. learned so much digital electronics from that
21:09 Triffid_Hunter made moving message displays and everything
21:10 GargantuaSauce it still blows my mind that they wrote that in lisp
21:10 chord_ GargantuaSauce: so why are you torturing me with C++ instead of Lisp in spring
21:11 GargantuaSauce i am giving you an example of an engine that does it reasonably well
21:11 GargantuaSauce take it or leave it
21:13 orlok GargantuaSauce: yeah, and i think the first game released for linux before windows
21:13 orlok i think..
21:13 chord_ GargantuaSauce: so here is my plan i'm going to link to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Eornp2I6t4 with the hope that you get addicted back to rts games and then an urge to make a clone a better than starcraft 2 lures you into the project
21:14 GargantuaSauce i wish you the best of luck
21:15 orlok and may god have mercy on your soul.
21:15 chord_ GargantuaSauce: you can't run away from your past forever...
21:15 GargantuaSauce I have better things to put my effort into
21:15 chord_ GargantuaSauce: you can't deny who you are
21:15 chord_ such as...
21:16 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj9gFFyR3-Y
21:17 chord_ that looks so pathetic compared to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNZPRsrwumQ
21:17 GargantuaSauce i am not darpa funded, fortunately
21:20 chord_ GargantuaSauce: so hypothetically if you were to start your own starcraft clone would you use out of lisp, haskell, or c++
21:20 GargantuaSauce probably a relatively thin layer in c++ and then lua or javascript or something on top
21:21 chord_ so you don't buy this functional programming future argument
21:21 GargantuaSauce you can do functional programming in both scripting languages i mentioned
21:23 chord_ orlok why aren't you helping me convince him to work on starcraft clone
21:26 orlok because fuck RTS's?
21:27 ace4016 lol
21:33 chord_ so starcraft clone project is dead?
21:38 orlok shuffled off this mortal coil
23:07 MrCurious in java, whats diff between abstract class and interface class. seem to be very similar from half sentence definitions
23:10 MrCurious nm, google beat you to the answer
23:10 GuShH MrCurious: save your soul, run away from Java.
23:11 MrCurious its saving my soul from python
23:11 MrCurious which does indent blocking
23:11 MrCurious and duck typing
23:11 MrCurious i hate em both