#robotics Logs

Sep 12 2013

00:03 GuShH dig his tshirt though
00:24 R0b0t1 GuShH: They released a new Arduino!
00:24 R0b0t1 It runs linux.
00:24 R0b0t1 Thought you'd want to know.
00:26 orlok you mis-spelt rasberry pi
00:27 SquirrelCZECH hi folks
00:29 SquirrelCZECH is there someone with knowledge about PDI algorithm for stabilization of flying machines?
00:29 uirrelCZECH got some quest
00:29 SquirrelCZECH becase I think that "I" part of the algorithm - SUM, have to make a mess after some time....
00:29 SquirrelCZECH so it have to be reseted sort of, but how?
00:30 SquirrelCZECH oh wait
00:30 uirrelCZECH found what he was missing, I got it now!
00:31 R0b0t1 orlok: Too limited, couldn't run a desktop
00:31 R0b0t1 I'd been meaning to get a BeagleBone black. Like $25 more dollars and a lot more powerful
00:31 R0b0t1 I've no idea why they settle for subpar hardware
00:31 R0b0t1 They also linked the two processors with a uart
00:32 R0b0t1 not spi or something
00:41 GargantuaSauce_ i think the subpar hardware thing happens because open hardware and high-end SoCs do not get along
00:41 GargantuaSauce_ and then you get the best of both worlds with the rpi :V
00:48 SquirrelCZECH hmm
00:48 uirrelCZECH still prefers his cubieb
00:48 SquirrelCZECH that 1Ghz cpu is nice thing
00:48 SquirrelCZECH but of course graphic drivers are messy
00:49 MrCurious i prefer my odroid u2
00:49 MrCurious tiny, fast, and leaves io to someone ellse
00:49 SquirrelCZECH now even dualcore :D
00:56 GargantuaSauce_ yeah i have a couple cubieboards too, not the v2 though
00:56 GargantuaSauce_ i wish they made a version using the a31
01:00 orlok hmm got more hardware from ex employer
01:01 orlok assorted bottles of stuff handy for electronics work... air duster, freeze spray, flux, contact cleaner
01:01 orlok a pile of probes and semi-useless tools (solder sucker, crimper, cable tie gun)
01:01 orlok 24" rack mount powerboard, and some bearing mounted sliding rack shelves
01:07 SquirrelCZECH you are happy man!
01:11 orlok Happier with the SMD reflow station and repair set :0
01:14 SquirrelCZECH :D
01:14 orlok and a 1Ghz 4 channel oscilloscope
01:20 orlok Eurgh.
01:24 MrCurious did apple release some new iCones?
09:02 rue_house iclone?
10:02 pickl How can I create terminator?
10:34 GuShH Tom_itx: ever heard of iGaging DROs ?
10:35 GuShH http://www.ebay.com/itm/Igaging-2-Pc-set-6-12-Digital-Readout-Read-Out-DRO-Remote-Magnetic-Display-/151118532367?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232f5dcf0f
18:28 delinquentme how long does it usually take for a belt to get worn in?
18:29 ace4016 car belt?
18:29 ace4016 newer cars can probably go 120k-150k miles before they need replacing
18:29 ace4016 same with newer spark plugs
18:29 ace4016 so...depends on the age of your car
18:29 delinquentme nah this is just a typical mechanical belt drive 1/4" v-channel
18:30 ace4016 ah
18:49 GuShH delinquentme: for what
18:50 GuShH ace4016: worn in is not the same as worn out, plus it depends heavily on driving and storage conditions, plus quality of the belts.
18:50 ace4016 GuShH, yea; but they last a long time these days
18:51 ace4016 a lot of car advice assumes cars were the pieces of shit they use to be
18:51 GuShH most car advice is issued by spare parts sellers
18:53 Tom_itx dealer wanted $300+ for a repair i did in an hour with salvage parts costing me $10
18:53 GuShH timing belt on most VW cars specially diesels (tdi, etc) is 90.000KM not miles. this includes replacing the water pump and the tensioner. the aux belt depends.
18:54 GuShH now, water pump may be alright, may be totalled. as would be the tensioner, but it's preventive.
18:54 Tom_itx says the parts dealer
18:54 GuShH originals were metal, OEM are plastic
18:54 GuShH I'm not...
18:55 GuShH But even though you've got three temperature sensors, you don't want a broken water pump.
18:55 GuShH specially when the fins find themselves free to block any passages they want.
18:55 GuShH so it's standard practice to replace all three components
18:56 ace4016 heh, i was looking at my OEM manual and the car advice..
18:57 GuShH Tom_itx: forgot to mention, we're on a tropical weather so your "milage" may vary.
18:57 GuShH lots of differences with the same car issued to say Canada to the same one issued to Argentina
18:57 ace4016 car advice: replace spark plugs every 30k miles. OEM: replace spark plugs around 120k-150k. spark plugs are iridium platinum and rated for 150k miles
18:57 GuShH for instance extra fuel heaters are fitted for Canada
18:57 ace4016 well, the OEM ones are
18:57 ace4016 the recommended spark plugs by the car advice were the 30k-60k ones :P
18:58 GuShH for cheapie sparkplugs 60K is what you'd expect
18:58 GuShH it's not a carburated engine, there's no need to check your sparkplugs every weekend heh
18:58 ace4016 the OEM one that last 150K is like $4-$5; the $60K were like $3-$4...
18:58 ace4016 seems work it to just get the 150k ones :P
18:58 GuShH unless your lambda is acting funny.
18:59 GuShH NGK?
18:59 GuShH but not japan...
18:59 ace4016 toyota OEM spark plugs are NGK or D...something
19:00 GuShH Denso
19:00 ace4016 yea
19:00 GuShH I don't know what Denso means in Japanese... I know it means dense in Spanish :p
19:01 ace4016 i was recently doing some car maintenance and research for my car...which won't be my car for long
19:01 GuShH heh
19:01 ace4016 so i'm in the market for a new car :P
19:02 ace4016 so far i'm considering the passat tdi, ford fusion, hyndai sonata, camry and accord...
19:02 ace4016 the latter two are my "safe bets"
19:02 GuShH my brother kept bitching and moaning about how mechanics around here are tool wielding monkeys (I say that a lot but I have my reasons) ... he was replacing his skidguard and the only bolt he had to install, he cross-threaded it. I had to clean up the threads with an hss tap and pretty much gave him the finger ever since.
19:02 GuShH passat tdi
19:02 jadew ace4016: the only car you listed there that might have some quality in there is the passat
19:02 ace4016 not sure how the others are at self maintenance
19:02 GuShH do you have the "vento" over there?
19:02 GuShH or does it have another name
19:03 GuShH love that car.
19:03 ace4016 never heard of the vento
19:03 GuShH well Jetta over here is called Bora, hence why I ask.
19:03 ace4016 jadew, for economical and boring, the others are fine :P
19:03 ace4016 they're boring though
19:03 jadew ace4016: do you want to get it new? if so in what budget?
19:04 GuShH The Passat is meant for middle aged consumed old men.
19:04 GuShH Family men with a mistress.
19:04 ace4016 new
19:04 GuShH mechanically speaking it's a great car though
19:04 jadew the thing about the passat is that is a close relative of audi
19:04 ace4016 GuShH, i need a bigger car; 2 large dogs and a home owner
19:04 GuShH except if they share the same chassis as the jetta... which has flaws at least up until 2005, I haven't DRILLED THROUGH a newer one yet
19:04 ace4016 compact wouldn't go over so well for me at times
19:05 ace4016 i do like audi...
19:05 GuShH http://images01.olx.in/ui/12/44/68/1344402468_425333668_1-Pictures-of--Volkswagen-Vento-TDI.jpg
19:05 GuShH the Vento is an undercover Audi, as are most mid ranged VW
19:05 GuShH they share most spares
19:05 GuShH and you'll find the Audi logo on most of them.
19:05 ace4016 Vento looks kind of like a passat maybe?
19:05 GuShH Same chassis in many cases
19:05 GuShH It's a nicer Passat
19:06 ace4016 ah, no
19:06 jadew if you're going to get it new, why isn't BMW on that list?
19:06 GuShH We do have the Passat, for some reason it's got the same name over here as well
19:06 ace4016 the vento is the polo
19:06 GuShH jadew: way too expensive for a family car
19:06 ace4016 jadew, i don't want to spend over 26k
19:06 GuShH no, Polo is not the Vento
19:06 GuShH whatsoever.
19:06 GuShH Polos are Taxis over here.
19:06 ace4016 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Vento
19:06 GuShH There's no way it's the new polo!
19:07 GuShH it's poorly worded.
19:07 ace4016 ah, it's the jetta
19:07 ace4016 or the newer jetta?
19:07 GuShH no!
19:07 ace4016 (bottomer of the page)
19:07 GuShH Just as you could say the jetta is an audi a4 for smaller pockets.
19:07 GuShH whoever wrote that was on drugs.
19:08 ace4016 lol
19:08 ace4016 not sure if i should go for a compact though...
19:09 ace4016 i've utlized all the space in my camry before
19:09 GuShH It's higher class and bigger than the Jetta
19:09 ace4016 so...i kind of don't want to sacrifice the space
19:11 GuShH why isn't there a proper photo of this thing... anyway brochure picture http://acs2.blob.core.windows.net/imgcatalogo/l/P_372a6a365eb740e4814b044c9d1bd121.jpg
19:11 GuShH I personally wouldn't let a dog inside it
19:12 GuShH And sure, it's a mixture between the Passat and the Jetta.
19:12 ace4016 lol
19:12 ace4016 my dogs will be inside the car :P
19:13 GuShH get a pickup truck and put them on the back, if they fall off then bad luck...
19:13 GuShH right jadew?
19:13 ace4016 lol
19:14 ace4016 i love my dogs and don't like trucks :P
19:14 GuShH The Jetta is plenty big though
19:14 GuShH my brother has the tdi
19:14 ace4016 i'll probably look at some compacts as well
19:14 jadew brb, I bricked my router
19:14 GuShH the trunk is massive, think of how many dogs you could pack in there!
19:15 ace4016 ford fusion hatchback was one i was considering; jetta tdi...and that's all i can think of
19:15 ace4016 maybe the civic
19:15 GuShH But, no matter how new a car might be.. if it's not a Merc it's going to get all squeeky after a few miles
19:15 ace4016 don't like the corollla
19:15 GuShH no no no no civic!
19:15 ace4016 my car isn't squeeky after 72k miles :P
19:15 ShH is a Honda guy but he doesn't recommend
19:15 ace4016 lol
19:16 ace4016 why not?
19:16 GuShH small noises in odd places seem to be a gift from VW
19:16 GuShH Oh in my case Hondas are a lot more expensive to maintain
19:16 GuShH And I don't like the mechanics behind them
19:17 GuShH Take the honda civic from 92 to 98 or so, you had to remove the driver's wheel and one panel to access the oil filter
19:17 GuShH I know most people take it to the dealer to get an oil swap, but that's irrelevant I'm just saying some of their design choices are damn stupid.
19:18 ShH doesn't care if a car looks pretty, it has to function as
19:18 ace4016 actually, that's what i was concerned about
19:18 GuShH Oh and it's an old mom's car, the Civic that is. Not kidding, even my mom has one.
19:18 ace4016 i maintain my own car
19:18 ace4016 i've heard honda puts things in dumb areas
19:18 GuShH The Jetta on the other hand, oil filter is RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU!
19:18 ace4016 camry is a cinche to service
19:19 ace4016 so VWs are easily serviced then
19:19 GuShH If you were to replace the timing belt on the jetta, it would also be a pain in the butt... You have to remove at least one engine mount
19:20 ace4016 a friend with a newer civic (2007?) said he tried to change his wife's car and it was behind these panels that swing out...which means you have to use those garage jacks to not waste time
19:20 GuShH Say you get an automatic and you want to change the lower control arm bushings, or the arms themselves... the one by the driver side cannot be removed without unbolting the fishbone and moving the entire engine forward, there's no clearance for the front bolt to come out otherwise (on automatics)
19:20 ace4016 gave up and just goes to the dealer now
19:21 ace4016 but yea...my camry is diry easy to do maintenance on...and my next car should be just as easy to maintain
19:21 GuShH And up until 2005 the captive nuts in the subframe for said control arms were GLUED not welded, yes they do fall off inside. I don't know if newer ones are welded on.
19:21 ace4016 dirt*
19:22 GuShH where's the damn pic...
19:22 GuShH the original bushings don't last very long around here...
19:24 GuShH ace4016: this is what I did to my brother's jetta just so I could recover the nut. http://gushh.net/tmp/dscn3993f.jpg
19:25 GuShH that's a scrap tyre used to keep the skidguard somewhat level and near the mounts
19:25 GuShH anyway the jury is still out on whether I should plug weld the hole or not
19:25 GuShH hopefully VW figured out glue is not the way to keep captive nuts in place ever since.
19:27 ace4016 yeesh
19:27 GuShH http://gushh.net/tmp/dscn3987f.jpg the black one is held by a 3mm thin stripe of glue all around it's rim, in the subframe... over the paint. when you push the bolt in or knock to remove the control arm, they just fall inside and you can't reinstall the control arm unless you somehow fish it out and replace with a proper nut
19:27 GuShH Germans!
19:27 ace4016 lol
19:28 ace4016 you're making me reconsider VW at all :P
19:28 GuShH Other than that I would get a Jetta heh awesome milage, very reliable and easy to work with
19:29 GuShH ace4016: I can only speak for 2004-2006 or so Jettas, I haven't worked on a newer one... on these particular ones there's also a design flaw on the turbo hose, the clamp grinds it's way off and you end up with a car that can only function in what's known as "limp mode"
19:29 GuShH I had to machine a bracket, instead of replacing the entire hose, because it would've had the same issue after some time.
19:30 GuShH now, limp mode means... you're driving a 1 liter diesel from 1940s, it spews out black sooth and you get like 20hp
19:30 GuShH it's a safety mechanism of course.
19:30 ShH reconsiders the imaginary size of the diesel and takes it to 4 liters, accounting for how inefficient they were in the
19:32 ace4016 lol
19:32 GuShH I have better Ford related stories that would make your testicles hide in terror.
19:33 ace4016 lol
19:33 GuShH Although to be fair one of them involved an aftermarket alarm system... Have you ever driven down the highway with your alarm set off, smoke coming out of your dashboard and no way to turn it off?
19:33 ace4016 i'm aware ford was a bit shitty; recently they seemed to have gotten better though
19:33 GuShH It's not as fun as it sounds.
19:34 ace4016 hehe
19:34 GuShH That's why I do everything I can myself, I don't trust anyone with any vehicle.
19:34 GuShH Plus whatever tools you need to buy for a specific repair, means you get to keep those tools.
19:35 ace4016 yea
19:35 ace4016 that was basically my thought
19:35 ace4016 that's why i started doing my own service
19:35 GuShH And you gain knowledge
19:35 ace4016 that's why i care about self maintainability
19:36 GuShH The claim that most people "don't have time for it" is bogus, as they do have time to crush their couch with their arse for countless hours every weekend, not saying that's bad .... but you could watch one less tv show and get something useful done instead.
19:36 GuShH or watch / listen while you work on it....
19:37 GuShH Plus understanding how every part of your vehicle works can come in very handy.
19:37 GuShH And yes you do save money if you don't mind spending some time under the hood.
19:39 ace4016 yea
19:39 GuShH I met a former "mercedes benz" mechanic, he allegedly worked on high end mercs every single day under their strict guidelines.... I've never seen him use a torque wrench or follow a tightening pattern. Here's what happens, they just want to get the car "fixed" and out so they can get their money and move on, they don't care about what happens afterwards or how it's done. Mallets are their primary tool... They wreck more parts than they fix.
19:40 ace4016 i usually hear people say "i don't want to spend the time" except they spend the same amount of time at the place getting their car serviced and just wait there...
19:40 GuShH There are odd cases where the guys have a passion for it, but you do pay a premium.
19:40 ace4016 or have to bother someone else to get them picked up and dropped back off
19:40 GuShH lol that's actually true, or they have to leave the car for who knows how long
19:41 ace4016 some people are just scared though
19:41 GuShH not to sound paranoid but you don't know what happens to your car after you leave it.
19:42 GuShH or if they really use the parts you buoght or ordered from them, or they just install refurbished parts
19:42 GuShH lots of weasels out there
19:42 Tom_itx i install the used parts myself
19:42 GuShH and they use your car as leverage, as you depend on it
19:42 Tom_itx then no worries
19:42 GuShH Tom_itx: heh I would buy some parts used, for instance injectors
19:43 GuShH 1k usd for a single bosch injector for the jetta tdi around here....
19:43 GuShH can you believe it
19:43 ace4016 actually, there's a toyota dealership who seem to be criminals
19:43 GuShH makes the black market grow that much more when you realize how high the prices of new parts are.
19:43 ace4016 close by
19:43 GuShH I have mixed feelings about used parts
19:44 GuShH Do you really know where they come from?
19:44 GuShH Around here, they are almost always stolen parts.
19:44 ace4016 they would hold your car random as they explain what your car needs
19:44 GuShH That is, from a chop shop.
19:45 ace4016 and the dealers that you think would know wtf they're talking about would say bullshit like "you've got to do a system flush that cost you $300"
19:45 GuShH Been to one of those places, I kid you not some of the parts on the shelves were dripping oil and they were warm.
19:45 ace4016 manufacturer manual? says no reason to change out most of the fluids under normal driving condition
19:45 GuShH They don't have the manuals around here.
19:46 ace4016 doesn't come with your car?
19:46 GuShH the shop manual doesn't
19:46 GuShH it wouldn't fit in your glovebox most of the time
19:46 GuShH example http://www.amazon.com/Bentley-Paper-Repair-Manual-Jetta/dp/B0044A5ZK2
19:47 GuShH Bentley are top notch.
19:47 ace4016 they give a simple owner's manual and car maintenance guide with my toyota
19:47 GuShH Yep but this thing shows you the torque for each bolt, how everything works, which steps to take, etc.
19:47 ace4016 it's not a repair manual, but it will at least tell you where things are and what maintenance is recommended and such
19:47 GuShH It's meant for mechanics to follow.
19:48 ace4016 yea
19:48 GuShH Sure the owner's manual does state basic maintenance, which is ignored by most since they never even read the thing
19:48 ace4016 but i have a feeling most places go against the manufacturer guides because they can make more money
19:49 GuShH They ignore them altogether so they can get away with it in the shortest possible amount of time, with the least possible work.
19:49 ace4016 heh
19:49 GuShH Also they could charge you for a valve cover gasket, but they'll use a liquid gasket instead. Things like that just makes me want to set their shop on fire.
19:51 ace4016 the labor they charge you is sometimes ridiculous as well
19:51 GuShH And of course, they might be selling you new parts, but in reality they're buying stolen refurbs. Some mechanics will start swapping parts until it "just works", which is even worse.
19:51 GuShH Bah assholes.
19:52 GuShH I'm sure there are some honest guys out there, but I haven't met any yet.
19:53 GuShH The Honda dealership / shop we used to go to would simply start replacing parts without even sending you a quote to approve first.
19:53 GuShH Leaving the car meant you were forced to pay even if you didn't agree to the repair.
19:53 GuShH (official honda....)
19:54 ace4016 that's what promted me to stop going to dealerships
19:54 ace4016 they'll take the car, do some service, then charge you, even though you only asked for an oil change
19:55 ace4016 no! i want you to tell me what's up first and i can decide on what i want to change
19:56 ace4016 actually, i liked pepboys near my old house for that. you'd go in for one thing, they'd check your car out and tell you what they find and you can decide what you want to do after that
19:56 GuShH that's how it should be :p
19:56 ace4016 not charge you then go "opps, sorry, but you have to otherwise we won't give you your car back"
19:56 ace4016 pay+
19:56 GuShH ok so around here some places will even show you the problem areas when the car is still on the lift, but they're still weasels.
19:57 GuShH for some reason any repairs involving metalwork (dents, etc) are never performed in front of the owner
19:58 GuShH they probably don't want you to see how they bang up your car and fix it in 5 minutes.
19:58 ace4016 well...that's because a lot of metalwork looks scary :P
19:58 ace4016 WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT SLEDGE HAMMER!?
19:58 GuShH this brings you to car detailers as well... those are the worst.
19:59 GuShH I've seen them remove bird poop with a spatula.
19:59 GuShH Detailers my ass.
19:59 GuShH As you might know, bird poop seems to dissolve the clear coat
20:00 GuShH or at least alter it.
20:00 GuShH I don't know what birds over here are eating but it's like acid.
20:00 ShH shakes
20:01 ace4016 lol
20:02 GuShH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Eu9RMf40Ng
20:07 GuShH anyway ace4016 just get a fiat uno 1.0 for your dogs, teach them to drive. problem solved!
20:07 ace4016 lol
20:07 ace4016 tbh, if i had a car that could drive itself, that would be the most ideal
20:07 ace4016 i hate driving
20:08 ace4016 you have to deal with other idiots on the road
20:08 GuShH it's worse if you drive a motorcycle, but at least it's a lot more fun
20:08 ace4016 i could spend that transit time reading or drawing or whatever
20:08 ace4016 driving feels like a chore unless you're in some back woods part and no one is around
20:09 GuShH just call the highway people and tell them there's a BOMB, then you've got the entire highway for yourself!
20:09 ShH puts on his sungla
20:09 ace4016 lol
23:54 MrCurious blah blah blah
23:54 GargantuaSauce_ http://xn--d-bga.su/1st_avr.jpg my very first avr program!
23:59 greenpencil Hi