#robotics Logs

Jun 29 2013

09:35 GuShH rue_house: have you ever taken the apron handle off of your lathe?
09:36 GuShH the diagram shows it's merely a keyed shaft with possibly a spring key (says so, but I think it's a regular key) thing is, it won't budge and I don't want to force it or mark it.
09:36 GuShH lots of play on the handle, aside from the backlash from the gears (little I can do about it, I would imagine without replacing them)
09:37 GuShH fixed the other two so far, it's starting to feel like a real lathe now
09:37 GuShH some of the allen screws are damaged, like they've taken an angle grinder to the heads, not sure how or why. So I'm replacing all that's bad
09:38 GuShH plus they're very low quality
09:38 GuShH all metric and mostly the sizes I stock so that's good
09:38 GuShH can't see how to drop the apron without removing the top slide...
09:39 GuShH it won't budge because of the half nut, if the top portion can be taken off first then I would imagine the top half nut could be removed to take the apron off without touching the leadscrew assembly
09:42 robotustra hi
09:51 GuShH hi robotustra
10:33 rue_house GuShH, no
10:39 robotustra does anybody worked with sensor http://c1170156.r56.cf3.rackcdn.com/UK_HPA_APDS-9800_DS.pdf
10:40 robotustra did anybody work
10:43 rue_house still loading pdf
10:43 rue_house are you just using pin 6?
10:45 robotustra rue: is it to me?
10:45 rue_house when nobody else is talking, its safe to assume the only replies are to you
10:45 rue_house :)
10:46 rue_house I'm gonna go take a shower
10:46 robotustra :)
10:47 robotustra I want to do something like this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1034145369/high-speed-laser-optical-sensor
10:54 robotustra but I'm not sure that I can work trough SPI with this sensor
10:55 robotustra It looks like I have to use extra controller to talk with this sensor
11:01 alibama i realize this is a bit outside the realm of robotics…. but i need to find a line under my house and figure someone on here might have an idea?
11:02 alibama so i want to be able to put a signal on a dead outlet, then go under the house, and figure out which line is being signaled? any thoughts on the proper tools to purchase?
11:02 alibama nvm - there's an electronics channel on here :)
11:13 rue_house alibama,
11:14 GuShH rue_house: I think I know why there's so much play, the shaft is unsupported on the other end
11:14 alibama rue_house: hi - i'm looking at something like this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00023RVNO/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00023RVNO&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwyou00f-20#productDetails
11:15 GuShH and I actually found a guy that had to make a small bracket/block to support the shaft on the other end, which is how it should've been from the factory...
11:15 rue_house use a 555 with a series capacitor to put a high freq (1khz or so) signal thru the wire, make a pickup from the coil of a relay and attach the two wires to a casstee tape amplifier, (use the relay coil as a replacement 'head' for the tape deck) put on some earphnes and go find your cable
11:15 GuShH might have to drill and tap the side of the apron to do that though
11:15 rue_house apron? you mean the tailstock?
11:16 rue_house what mod you doing?
11:16 GuShH no. the apron is the bottom portion of the whole carriage
11:16 GuShH it hangs to the side so it's called an apron
11:16 rue_house what mod you doing?
11:16 GuShH the hand wheel has massive play, the shaft is unsupported on the other end and there's no real bearing or actual bushing on the front side
11:16 GuShH he used regular steel I think... I would use alu and a brass bushing instead
11:17 rue_house the carrige feed is a gearset to that rack gear underneeth
11:17 GuShH wait, cat won't let me read
11:18 GuShH yes there's a shaft with a gear on the end, on that side it's not supported by anything
11:18 GuShH so there's massive play
11:18 rue_house oh!
11:18 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RC-2200KV-Brushless-Motor-2212-6-30A-ESC-Free-Mount-for-rc-plane-/300906826003?pt=US_Radio_Control_Control_Line&hash=item460f71c913
11:18 rue_house this is a good deal, right?
11:18 GuShH a little block with a bored hole and a bushing would be ideal, simply fastened to the side of the apron with one or two allens
11:19 rue_house I didn't look at how the gear is attached on mine
11:19 robotustra somebody do a lathe?
11:19 rue_house robotustra, we have similar lathes
11:19 rue_house sorta
11:19 GuShH actually mine is almost identical to rif's
11:19 GuShH rue has a better model
11:19 robotustra give me a link please
11:19 GuShH but they all share lots of parts
11:19 GuShH I think the beds are the same
11:19 GuShH (other than length differences)
11:20 rue_house GuShH, I presume you didn't get the variable DC one cause you know the controllers blow up all the time?
11:20 GuShH it wasn't an option
11:20 GuShH I can always convert it to a treadmill dc motor
11:20 rue_house iirc rifs is better than mine is
11:20 GuShH the only ones with variable dc motors were the mini lathes
11:20 GuShH (that I could find here)
11:20 GuShH but those are even worse
11:20 rue_house those dc controllers blow up all the time, your better with an ac motor
11:20 GuShH with plastic gears and everything is flimsy
11:21 robotustra like this https://www.proxibid.com/AuctionImages/432/65335/FullSize/1.jpg
11:21 GuShH heh the ac motor has a start and run cap, draws quite a bit of current if you leave the clutch on
11:21 GuShH and in some belt setups the clutch just doesn't do anything really
11:21 GuShH like I said the offset pulleys and belt needs to be replaced for something sturdier in the future.
11:21 rue_house robotustra, that ones better than both of ours
11:22 GuShH damn that's a full norton gearbox
11:22 rue_house yea, I want.
11:22 GuShH probably 750mm bed like mine, but way better. those cost twice as much
11:22 rue_house and it has a proper machine feed
11:22 GuShH what's that circle on the splash guard near the tailstock?
11:22 rue_house screw tray
11:22 rue_house magnetic
11:22 GuShH o.O
11:23 GuShH that one has power feed on X and Y? neat
11:23 GuShH just like a proper big old lathe
11:23 rue_house it lookslike it does
11:23 GuShH I'd like that... and it really is just a couple extra gears and a lever, damn chinks.
11:23 rue_house I bet you can do auto tapers with it
11:23 GuShH it also has reverse on the leadscrew I bet
11:23 GuShH which again is just a couple extra gears and lever!
11:24 GuShH I think I saw a mod on reverse leadscrew somewhere
11:24 rue_house yea, that would be the knob right by the feed screw
11:24 rue_house there is
11:24 rue_house you just need another gear
11:24 rue_house I'll find the link later
11:24 robotustra is this lathe has plastic gears inside? http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-x-14-Mini-Metal-Lathe-Infinite-Variable-Speed-Spindle-2500RPM-550W-DC-Motor-/170989616612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cfc67de4
11:24 GuShH that monster weighs 500KG easily
11:24 GuShH robotustra: yes they do
11:24 robotustra :(
11:25 GuShH the threading gears are at least plastic in almost all of them
11:25 GuShH you can see them in the pic
11:25 GuShH it's like nylon or delrin
11:25 robotustra yep I see
11:25 GuShH for an apartment though those lathes are neat
11:25 robotustra and does they work ok?
11:25 GuShH you can make alu or brass gears and replace the plastic ones
11:25 robotustra easy
11:25 robotustra mill it
11:26 GuShH (alu gears for this application seem to last surprisingly long)
11:26 rue_house you know, its funny, that motor I just posted is $20 with controller, and its over 250W
11:26 robotustra here they write 550 W
11:26 GuShH if you don't have a mill you have to index the spindle and use the carriage to cut the teeth
11:26 robotustra i have a mill
11:27 GuShH by copying the teeth profile when you grind the cutting tool you actually get rid of all problems
11:27 robotustra I built it
11:27 GuShH (only problem is proper indexing)
11:27 GuShH gingery?
11:27 robotustra I did it from scratch
11:27 GuShH I've seen an indexing trick using a drill bit over the gear... it's ah... not ideal.
11:27 GuShH gingery mill, I ask.
11:28 GuShH gingery did a series on homemade lathes, mills, foundries...
11:28 robotustra no
11:28 robotustra I didn't buy it
11:28 GuShH it's just the plans
11:28 rue_house http://www.dennisatwood.com/projects/tumbler-reverse-for-10x22-lathe/
11:28 rue_house that is the good page on adding feed reverse
11:29 rue_house surprise, that black gear the meches with the head is plastic :)
11:29 GuShH looks cast steel or iron though
11:29 rue_house take a bolt and tap on it
11:29 rue_house surprise!
11:29 robotustra this is my mill http://pics.livejournal.com/maholet/pic/00006hzr/s640x480
11:29 GuShH mine are all metal though
11:30 GuShH some look cast, others look machined from solid stock
11:30 rue_house GuShH, GO TAP ON IT
11:30 rue_house that first gear is plastic
11:30 GuShH the change gears are all cast
11:30 rue_house I didn't notice till I took it off
11:30 GuShH alright I will in 2 minutes
11:30 GuShH and if it is I'll panic a bit
11:30 GuShH OCD will take over
11:30 rue_house no, I think its a sheer thing
11:30 rue_house fusable link ya know?
11:31 GuShH but that just requires a key
11:31 GuShH to sheer off
11:31 rue_house its just a transfer gear
11:31 GuShH oh he used a thumb screw for the cover, like I thought about (comes with a simple allen bolt.. annoying)
11:31 GuShH that one has thicker pulleys
11:31 rue_house yea, that was my first mod, the thumb screw
11:32 GuShH awesome mod the feed reverse
11:32 GuShH must do when I get all setup
11:32 GuShH aww I see the collet and I get envious... I haven't got a set yet and they're rather expensive
11:32 GuShH actually just the live center costs 100 usd
11:32 GuShH not including shipping
11:35 rue_house you have a lathe and a hacksaw, make bolt driven collet
11:36 rue_house I'll take more pics of my lathe today
11:36 GuShH all metal gears
11:36 rue_house yesterday I took the thumb screw and modded the hole to a slot, I saw it on one someone else had done and gave in
11:36 GuShH and by the sound they're cast
11:37 GuShH pulleys are alu
11:37 rue_house first one off the head
11:37 rue_house plastic, I'm sure
11:37 GuShH possibly cast like the handles, cheaper...
11:37 GuShH I already checked mine! just now
11:37 rue_house pff
11:37 GuShH made a video, let's see if it's audible and I'll upload it.
11:37 rue_house magnet?
11:37 GuShH wrench
11:37 GuShH ding ding ding
11:37 rue_house it looks just like the rest cause of the cut pattern
11:37 rue_house hmmm
11:37 rue_house hmm
11:38 GuShH that's what I meant about some things lacking for no good reason
11:38 GuShH they probably put them together with what they have
11:38 robotustra what do you do
11:38 robotustra except tools
11:38 GuShH you can complain and cry and bitch about it hoping you get your money back
11:38 GuShH or you can suck it up, take it for what it is and make it better yourself
11:39 robotustra linux-way
11:39 robotustra do-it-yourself
11:39 GuShH I can't afford a fancy ass swiss made 3 ton lathe
11:39 rue_house i'm ok ith it, i think its a safety thing
11:40 GuShH sure and the thin belts are also for safety and "low vibration"
11:40 GuShH bs
11:40 rue_house there is like 0 force on that gear
11:40 GuShH >_< that's what shear pins and keys are for
11:40 GuShH it's more about the wear also
11:40 rue_house I tried to do full speed and tripped out the power bar I have
11:41 GuShH heh
11:41 GuShH lights dim a bit when I turn mine on
11:41 GuShH which is odd
11:41 GuShH usually they light up, because they're on another phase
11:42 rue_house heh
11:42 rue_house http://www.dennisatwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/IMG_0416.JPG <-- that black one therre is plastic
11:44 GuShH ugh how heavy is this file...
11:44 robotustra do you do left-hand threads?
11:44 GuShH bah I need a camera capable of 1080p video
11:45 GuShH robotustra: you mean if you can? not as-is
11:45 GuShH that's why there's a reverse feedscrew mod
11:45 GuShH it's a feature available on more expensive / bigger lathes
11:45 robotustra ok
11:45 GuShH actually size is irrelevant, small watch maker's lathes all have the feature
11:45 GuShH but those are jewels.
11:46 GuShH some cost more by weight than gold.
11:46 robotustra but why do you need it?
11:46 GuShH some applications require reverse threads
11:46 GuShH to prevent the part from undoing itself
11:46 robotustra I mean left-hand threads?
11:46 GuShH say a drill
11:46 GuShH (unless it goes both ways, then you have morse taper or other alternatives)
11:47 rue_house its not just about left hand threads, its about auto feeding AWAY from the chuck
11:47 robotustra groove washer
11:47 GuShH rue_house: sure but a safety switch can save you as well
11:47 GuShH I'm going to add one as well.
11:48 GuShH there's no easy way to operate the clutch so turning the power off would be the only possibility without a major modification
11:48 GuShH if yours is DC then you can actually brake it as well
11:48 rue_house sometimes I was to start right up against the chuck
11:48 GuShH not sure if you can easily do that with an AC motor?
11:48 rue_house the start button on mine was black, changed it out for green
11:48 GuShH lol
11:49 GuShH the reverse switch is tilted a bit on mine
11:49 GuShH I'm not sure how it's mounted
11:49 rue_house they are linked, if I reverse the motor, I'd have to have a upside down bit
11:49 GuShH possibly the top cover hides two screws
11:49 GuShH from underneath I can see an o-ring against the metal and nothing else
11:49 GuShH sigh 9 minutes to upload the video
11:50 robotustra who is denis atwood
11:50 GuShH no clue
11:50 GuShH denis haswood
11:52 rue_house http://www.mini-lathe.com/C6_lathe/C6/c6.htm
11:52 rue_house this guy did a lot of little stuff too
11:52 rue_house I just worked out how firefox purges memory
11:52 rue_house it crashes :)
11:53 GuShH tried with a 2gram neo magnet.. all ferrus
11:53 GuShH left it by the spindle, figure I'll use it with a hall effect sw to measure spindle rpm
11:54 rue_house hmmmm
11:54 rue_house I wonder if its not out of the same factory as the king/grizzley lathes
11:54 GuShH all I need to make is a small bracket, it could be held by the cover but if I open it then I lose the readout heh
11:54 rue_house did it come with a screwdriver with a wooden handle?
11:54 GuShH most are
11:55 GuShH yes
11:55 GuShH red ones
11:55 GuShH very "cute" (useless)
11:55 rue_house heh,
11:55 rue_house yea, I thought so too
11:55 GuShH came with two of them
11:55 GuShH but no combined wrenches
11:55 GuShH should've come with 2, complained... got no answer
11:55 rue_house and it dodn't come with the 4mm allen key you need
11:55 GuShH missing the live center which is depicted on the manual
11:55 GuShH it came with all the allens though
11:55 GuShH like 4-5
11:56 GuShH in the plastic toolbox
11:56 GuShH rif's is metallic...
11:56 rue_house mine had no live centre, it was an extra buy
11:56 GuShH it came with two dead centers but meh
11:56 GuShH how much is an inexpensive MT2 live centre over there?
11:56 GuShH it's 100 friggin usd here.
11:56 robotustra I need lathe but not this year
11:56 rue_house one for the head and one for the tail, for working between centers, but didn't come with a dog (!!!?!?!)
11:56 GuShH yeah no dog
11:57 GuShH but it came with the face plate
11:57 rue_house I'm thinking of betting or making a dog
11:57 GuShH which you could use to bolt the dog "guide" to
11:57 rue_house yea, I had face, 3jaw and 4jaw
11:57 GuShH yep
11:57 GuShH the 4 jaw is crappy
11:57 rue_house ?
11:57 GuShH it's not a real 4 jaw
11:57 rue_house ?
11:57 rue_house how so?
11:57 GuShH it's the "open" type with bolts on the back
11:58 rue_house oh
11:58 rue_house no, key/
11:58 robotustra to make excetrics?
11:58 GuShH yes key but you have to fasten from behind
11:58 GuShH robotustra: that too
11:58 GuShH or square parts
11:58 GuShH rectangular parts...
11:58 GuShH OR, higher precision than a 3 jaw
11:58 GuShH with a dial indicator
11:58 GuShH between centers though the best bet is to use a dog to transmit the power
11:59 rue_house my 3 jaw was out on its backplate by 5 thou
11:59 GuShH (precision wise, as far as I know)
11:59 rue_house took a while to get it centered right
11:59 GuShH I've yet to get the indicator with magnetic base to set it all up, first I'm dealing with the obvious problems AND where to put it!
11:59 rue_house I thought it was funny to be putting in precision ground rod and be taking so much off one side
12:00 GuShH there http://youtu.be/Pc7gOkhVf4Y I'm still taking it apart (except for headstock) will remove the motor next
12:00 GuShH the manual mentions chuck runout and how to deal with it
12:01 GuShH it's actually very well put together considering it's chinese
12:01 GuShH it's one of the first manuals I've found useful, other than ones made by honda or similar wrt engines
12:01 GuShH well, shop manuals from bentley are great too, a bit massive though.
12:02 GuShH the vw jetta series one is like 6000 pages
12:02 GuShH covers most of the audi platform (golf, jetta, etc)
12:03 GuShH hmm look at those two "guide bars" under the leadscrew, are those just for structural support or do they serve other purposes? https://www.proxibid.com/AuctionImages/432/65335/FullSize/1.jpg
12:09 robotustra no idea
12:10 robotustra I didn't work on lathers yet
12:10 robotustra may be at school but it was long time ago
13:07 robotustra http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bolton-13-x-40-CNC-Metal-Lathe-Turning-Lathe-High-Precision-3-Phase-Auto-TP-/251176709785?hash=item3a7b4c6e99
13:18 robotustra metal gears http://www.ebay.com/itm/mini-lathe-gears-metal-lathe-mini-metal-lathe-/271230411095?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2697a157
13:19 GuShH robotustra: those are cast though
13:19 GuShH anyway that's not the only issue with these chinese lathes
13:19 GuShH lots of backlash, play, improperly assembled, etc.
13:19 GuShH that's why they say they're more like kits.
13:20 GuShH oh and that last link, they're plastic.
13:21 GuShH it's not too bad anyway, you do need a dial indicator for precision machining so might as well buy it to setup the lathe too.
13:22 GuShH and the rest you can make with the lathe itself and a few tools
13:24 robotustra http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-2998EN
13:25 robotustra this sensor is better I think
13:29 demonio hi all can anyone help me with a robot arm ? i want make ones but i need some help for math formule
13:29 robotustra go on
13:30 robotustra what formule do you need?
13:30 demonio http://www.societyofrobots.com/robot_arm_tutorial.shtml
13:31 demonio i'm reading this tutorial
13:31 GuShH robot arm TUTORIAL? rofl
13:31 GuShH How many DOF? (I'm not clicking)
13:32 demonio 3
13:33 demonio is my first time so i can't calculate the servo torque
13:33 robotustra all equations are in the tutorial
13:33 demonio i'm really new in robotic world and i want learn of course
13:34 demonio yeah but i want understand
13:34 robotustra what is the specs of your arm
13:34 demonio why L2/2 ?
13:34 robotustra length, weigth
13:34 robotustra because the center of mass is in the middle
13:35 demonio sorry
13:35 demonio L1/2 * W1
13:35 demonio is the weight of the first linkage isn't?
13:35 robotustra yes
13:36 robotustra you consider as if all mass is in the center of mass
13:36 demonio why the second member is L1*W1 ?
13:38 robotustra are we talking about this picture http://www.societyofrobots.com/images/robot_arm_simple_stretched.gif
13:38 robotustra L1 * W4
13:38 robotustra not W1
13:38 robotustra W4 - in a total weight of all the rest
13:40 robotustra I would calculate simpler
13:40 robotustra what is the maximal weight your robot can cary?
13:40 demonio yeah but why first we calculate the half weight of the first linkage and then the total weight?
13:41 robotustra you don't need exact value - you need only the upper limit
13:41 robotustra I told you
13:41 robotustra because if you remove everything but first lincage - the center of gravity of it will be in the middle
13:42 robotustra or, you can do the integral from 0 to L1 of dm(L)dL
13:42 robotustra and you'll get 1/2
13:42 demonio but if i had a second linkage the center of gravity become the (L1+L2)/2
13:43 robotustra coefficient
13:43 robotustra no
13:44 robotustra what is you final aim - to understand formula or estimate the torque you nee d for servo?
13:44 demonio formula
13:44 robotustra ok, then you must start from the beggining
13:45 demonio for example if i've 3 linkage
13:45 robotustra give me a formula for momentum
13:45 demonio M1 = L1/2 * W1 + L1 * W4 + (L1 + L2/2) * W2 + (L1 + L3) * W3
13:45 robotustra M1 = L1/2 * W1 + L1 * W4 + (L1 + L2/2) * W2 + (L1 + L3) * W3
13:46 demonio wait robotustra
13:46 demonio if we have 3 linkage
13:46 robotustra so, do you know that this formular is works only when all your linkage are parellel to ground
13:47 robotustra L1, L2, etc - these are projections
13:47 demonio yeah the tutorial say that is the worst case
13:47 robotustra yep, it's just for estimation
13:47 robotustra (L1 + L2/2)
13:48 robotustra you are asking about this term
13:48 demonio is the same thing in L1/2
13:48 demonio right ?
13:48 robotustra this is a distance from joint 1 to the center of mass of linkage 2
13:48 demonio yes
13:49 robotustra and it's exactly what is written
13:49 robotustra L1 + L2/2
13:49 demonio but if we've 3 linkage
13:49 robotustra so
13:50 demonio the linkage 3 is this ?
13:50 demonio (L1+L2+L3/2)*W3
13:50 robotustra if you have 3 linkage you have to add term (L1+ L2 + L3/2)*W_of_third_linkage
13:50 robotustra yes
13:51 robotustra but here L3 is not the length of third linkage
13:51 demonio yeah i know
13:51 demonio is just an example for be sure that i understand
13:51 robotustra yes
13:51 robotustra it's ok
13:51 demonio but sorry if you told me that
13:52 demonio but i don't understand why he add L1*W4
13:52 demonio i think that formule must be
13:52 robotustra because you have to include all terms
13:53 demonio M1= L1/2 *W1 + (L1+L2/2)*W2+(L1+L3)*W3
13:53 robotustra W1 - is only the weight of first linkage,
13:53 robotustra but also there is a force which is acting on the end of linkage
13:54 robotustra and it's the rest of arm + payload
13:54 robotustra == W4
13:54 robotustra and the radius is L1
13:55 robotustra gives you extra momentum L1*W4 = L1*( weight_of_all_links_except_L1 + payload)
13:55 robotustra is it clear?
13:56 demonio then this W3 is the weight of the second linkage + the object that it bring?
13:56 demonio it lifts?
13:56 demonio W4
13:56 demonio **
13:56 robotustra ys
13:56 robotustra yes
13:56 robotustra W3 = payload
13:57 demonio then if i want calculate the second M
13:57 robotustra ok
13:57 robotustra M2 = L2/2 * W2 + L3 * W3
13:58 robotustra you consider joint 2 as if it fixed
13:58 robotustra and repeat
13:58 demonio wait
13:59 robotustra the same operatoin
13:59 demonio but M2= L2/2*W2+ L2 * W3
13:59 demonio isn't right?
13:59 robotustra no
13:59 demonio in M1 we make L1* (Weight of the rest)
13:59 robotustra L2 is the length of linkage
14:00 robotustra but the payload is not exactly at the end of linkage 2
14:01 demonio oh ok yeah now that i saw the picture you're right
14:01 robotustra it's simplified
14:01 robotustra a little bit
14:01 robotustra actually yes, if you have massive grip - you have to consider it's weight
14:02 robotustra but usually you can ignore the weight of the grip with comparison to peyload
14:03 demonio another thing
14:03 demonio the wheight of the second servo
14:04 demonio where i need to add
14:04 demonio when i make L1* W4 (here i add Weight of linkage 2 + Weight of the servo + Weight of the grip and Weight of the object)
14:05 robotustra yes
14:05 robotustra because it's mounted on the end of linkage 1
14:05 demonio but then i won't take in consideration the weight of the servo
14:06 robotustra of first servo - yes
14:06 robotustra you don't include it
14:07 demonio but generally what kind of actuator people use in base for make turn the arm around itself?
14:07 robotustra it can be a servo or stepper motor
14:08 robotustra if you want to make it 360 degree - it's better to use stepper motor
14:08 robotustra if less - servo is ok
14:08 robotustra or I think there are 360 degree servo
14:08 robotustra also
14:08 demonio but this servo should be very powerful
14:09 demonio for turn all linkage
14:09 demonio yeah there are, but for now i've just 2 servos
14:09 demonio i want buy other 2
14:09 robotustra it depends of what speed do you need to achive
14:10 demonio oh that doesn't matter
14:11 demonio my 2 servo with 6V stall torque 44 oz-in
14:11 robotustra if you don't need a lot of speed - servo can be not so powerful,
14:11 demonio 3kg cm
14:12 robotustra what is the total weight of arm
14:12 demonio but the value of servos are indeed as
14:12 robotustra and payload?
14:12 demonio 44 oz in an inches
14:12 demonio or 1 oz in 44 inches
14:12 demonio right?
14:12 robotustra ues
14:12 robotustra yes
14:13 robotustra or 2 oz in 22 inches
14:13 demonio this night i'll make the draw of structer i wanted understand the formule before i start
14:14 robotustra no prob
14:14 demonio for example if M1 = 22 oz
14:15 demonio wait
14:15 robotustra did you saw this http://www.societyofrobots.com/robot_arm_calculator.shtml
14:15 demonio yes
14:15 robotustra momentum is mesured in N*M
14:15 robotustra Newtons*Meters
14:15 demonio but i told you i want learn :D i don't want a program that will make the dirty work for me
14:16 robotustra ok
14:16 demonio if the result of M is 22
14:16 robotustra Oz - is a measure of weight
14:16 demonio i can use just a servo right?
14:17 robotustra 22 of parrots?
14:17 robotustra 22 KG*M or 22 g*cm
14:17 robotustra it's a huge difference
14:18 demonio g
14:18 robotustra give me your arm parameters
14:19 robotustra the length and weight of link1, link2, etc
14:19 robotustra weight of servos
14:19 robotustra but before - I'll tell you one thing
14:19 demonio yeah tell me because i haven't the paramets now
14:19 demonio for now **
14:20 robotustra if you want your arm working without problem - do some reserve
14:20 robotustra like 100% of the value you'll get
14:21 robotustra if you get 22 oz*inch - I would use 2 times more powerful servos
14:21 demonio but 100% isn't too, isn't there a wast of energy?
14:21 robotustra and for me all this calculations has no meaning because I estimate other way
14:21 robotustra no, it's not
14:22 robotustra it's relyability
14:22 demonio what other way do you use?
14:23 robotustra first I take the total weight of arm + payload
14:24 robotustra and multiply it by the sum of all linkage
14:24 robotustra and you never exceed this walue
14:24 robotustra value
14:25 robotustra you can write like this M_max = (L1+L2+L3)*(Weight of all arm+ payload)
14:25 demonio then if every linkage is 10 cm and every linkage weight 5g and the weight of payload is 1 kg
14:26 demonio M_max = 30 * 1,15 Kg
14:26 robotustra 5g - is negligibly small with comparison to payload
14:26 robotustra no
14:27 robotustra do you mean 50 g?
14:27 robotustra it's more real
14:27 robotustra yes
14:27 robotustra but I whould multiply it by factor 2
14:27 GuShH demonio: dove sei?
14:28 demonio oh ok and here don't you use a reserve?
14:28 robotustra or at least by 1.5
14:28 robotustra no
14:28 robotustra yes
14:28 demonio GuShH, sei italiano?
14:28 robotustra it's already more than worsest case
14:29 GuShH eh... in teoria
14:29 robotustra there are some reserve already included
14:29 demonio oh ok that is a great tip robotustra you are very helpful
14:29 GuShH (il nonno era da sicilia)
14:29 demonio io sono siciliano
14:29 GuShH :D
14:29 ShH hugs dem
14:30 robotustra ьфашф
14:30 robotustra mafia
14:30 GuShH LOL
14:30 robotustra robomafia
14:30 demonio ahahah
14:30 GuShH pffft cosa nostra!.
14:30 robotustra I just helped mafia to build a killer robot
14:31 demonio i don't know if i need to laugh or cry
14:31 demonio yeah maybe you are funny
14:31 GuShH demonio: bah I don't think they mind if we talk in Italian, problem is I'm not exactly fluent (shame on me)
14:31 GuShH robotustra: lol
14:31 robotustra relax, I'm far from you
14:31 GuShH or are you?
14:31 MrCurious that would make a great movie. sicilian loan-sharking kill bot invasion
14:31 GuShH I don't know why you assume we're mafiosos
14:32 MrCurious forget about it
14:32 GuShH baaaaah forgeeeta bout eeeet
14:32 ShH shakes
14:32 GuShH Come on you stereotypical asshole!
14:32 GuShH I don't make fun of whereever you come from, where is that anyway? :P
14:32 MrCurious we only know what jersey shore teaches us about your kind
14:32 GuShH Those are guidos
14:32 GuShH they've never been to italy
14:32 GuShH I think they all come from a lineage that can be traced to a drunk italian in an american whorehouse, but that's about it.
14:33 GuShH also I believe a horse may have been involved.
14:33 demonio but isn't mafia in other part of world?
14:33 MrCurious actually, the show SENT them to italy
14:33 GuShH There are lots of similar organizations
14:33 GuShH everywhere
14:33 robotustra there is italian mafia in quebec
14:33 GuShH MrCurious: lawl I bet they couldn't even order a pizza
14:33 ShH wipes
14:33 robotustra controlling constructions
14:33 GuShH robotustra: good!
14:33 MrCurious chinese tongs, SA cartels...
14:33 GuShH I'd like to go to Canada some time
14:34 demonio yeah it's sad that there are this people
14:34 GuShH Suck on a maple tree... and other things.
14:34 MrCurious you know how canada got its name right? they wanted a short name like USA and one guy says i got it C eh N eh D eh
14:35 GuShH demonio: should we whack robotustra? he knows too much.
14:35 GuShH MrCurious: haw haw
14:35 GuShH that ain't funny eh
14:35 GuShH (why the hell do they say "eh" all the time anyway?)
14:36 MrCurious i asked my canadian wife. she didnt know eh
14:36 demonio ahahaha robotustra
14:36 GuShH the farthest out you go, the more "eh" they cram in every sentence
14:36 GuShH it's nuts.
14:36 demonio however people what platform do you use for create your robots?
14:36 GuShH in Chile they use "po"
14:36 GuShH It drives me nuts, I could actually punch them just for saying it
14:36 GuShH They sound like wild apes.
14:37 GuShH demonio: I use a lupara and some scrap steel.
14:37 GuShH no, actually I'm not that much into robotics.
14:38 robotustra canada - comes from ca na ta - in indean it means "village"
14:38 GuShH which indians?
14:38 robotustra native canadians
14:38 GuShH the ones using coathanger wire to steal electricity, cable and groceries?
14:38 GuShH oh, those.
14:38 robotustra there are a lot of them
14:38 GuShH wait, cable can't be called cable in india.. it must be called wire.
14:39 GuShH robotustra: are they respected at least?
14:39 GuShH in Australia it seems they've got issues with the natives
14:39 robotustra oh shit I have to learn about them soon to become a sitizenship
14:39 GuShH I don't think I can have another citizenship... already got two
14:39 robotustra yep, they live here very good
14:39 demonio i brb
14:40 GuShH robotustra: it's time you keep helping demonio or else! <shakes fist>
14:40 robotustra I'm permanent resident
14:40 GuShH resident evil
14:40 robotustra yep
14:40 GuShH freenode's resident evil is flyback.
14:40 robotustra 3 years come soon and I can apply
14:40 GuShH I'm becoming very anxious about this lathe... I want it installed and setup already
14:41 ShH tends to have anxiety problems like
14:43 robotustra GuShH: no problem, physics is easy
14:44 GuShH lies. physics won't let me move it by myself without emitting female tennis player moans.
14:44 robotustra and mock student's is my favotite цфн ща ызутвштп ешьу
14:44 GuShH why do you have �?
14:45 robotustra and mock student's is my favotite way of spending time
14:47 robotustra kidding
14:48 MrCurious OMG CNN just outed bert and earnie!
14:48 robotustra I used to be a university lecturer in physics
14:48 robotustra for 10 years
14:49 robotustra puppets' news?
14:53 demonio right back
14:53 demonio be back
14:55 demonio what material do you recommend me ?
14:57 robotustra hard stainless steel
14:58 robotustra with this arm a victim will fill less comfortable
14:59 robotustra you didn't tell yet what is the length of links
14:59 robotustra 10 cm?
15:00 demonio cm is the method of measure used in ue
15:01 demonio 1 in = 2,54 cm
15:01 robotustra yes
15:02 demonio 4 in is few?
15:02 robotustra you didn't describet the goal
15:02 robotustra what this arm will do
15:03 demonio i don't know really doesn't matter take a beer or nothing
15:04 demonio is just for create an arm that moves lika an arm lol
15:05 demonio do you know any good site of robot?
15:06 robotustra to desctibe how it works - no
15:07 robotustra to sell you bullshut - a lot
15:07 robotustra are you banned on google?
15:07 demonio ahahaha yeah
15:07 demonio no really is for see if there are some sites that i don't know
15:08 robotustra actually, I didn't see any good site about robotics
15:08 robotustra I would like to find a good site about android robots, but I don't see them
15:09 rue_house make one
15:09 robotustra I do
15:09 robotustra I mean robot, not site
15:09 rue_house make a site
15:10 robotustra may be I'll do it in parallel
15:10 robotustra but it's more like presentation
15:10 robotustra and it's kind of waist of time
15:11 demonio robotustra, isn't a bad idea, a forum where at waste time make a little video of any robot
15:11 robotustra but they already DID a robot, and I'm not yet
15:12 robotustra may be after - it's agood idea to promote robot
15:12 rue_house I (again) do not like what google has done with google images
15:12 rue_house I like the old image array that takes you directly to the site
15:13 robotustra yep, google do shitty things last year
15:13 robotustra it's getting worser and worther
15:14 robotustra worser
15:14 robotustra WTF with my inglish :)
15:15 demonio robotustra, where are you from?
15:15 robotustra it's also getting worser
15:15 robotustra Belsrus
15:15 robotustra Belarus
15:15 robotustra between Poland and Russia
15:16 demonio but ustra mean some thing in your language?
15:16 demonio means**
15:16 robotustra no
15:17 robotustra do you know who is Zarathustra
15:18 robotustra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thus_Spoke_Zarathustra
15:19 robotustra it's where -ustra come from
15:20 demonio oh ok did you done many robots in your life?
15:20 demonio :)
15:22 robotustra 0
15:22 robotustra actually only 1
15:22 robotustra my CNC mill
15:22 robotustra is also can be considered as robot
15:23 robotustra it has 3 steppers
15:23 robotustra and I did RC plans also
15:23 robotustra they have servos
15:23 robotustra also type of robots,
15:23 robotustra counting them I did 4 robots
15:24 robotustra but I started to build androidish robot
15:24 robotustra humanoidish
15:26 robotustra but before I did a lot of techno stuf
15:26 robotustra like concret mixers, tractors
15:26 GuShH ok so you were into gay trance and now you are just making a gay robot boyfriend?
15:26 robotustra 2 tractors actually
15:26 GuShH is that what they call 'em these days
15:27 Mamoru GoShH...
15:27 Mamoru :p
15:27 GuShH robotustra: you can be a theoretical robotics wannabeneer though, no problem
15:27 GuShH these cheap chinese M5 bolts have no markings on the head.. heh
15:28 GuShH "y u spend rice on markin, no markin, white man no need no markin!"
15:28 robotustra I started from eyes
15:29 robotustra I almost did one
15:29 robotustra http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/maholet/24765393/17146/17146_600.jpg
15:30 robotustra http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/maholet/24765393/17641/17641_600.jpg
15:30 robotustra http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/maholet/24765393/16835/16835_600.jpg
15:30 GuShH almost?
15:31 robotustra 80%
15:31 robotustra of eye itself
15:31 GuShH is it missing the pixie dust?
15:31 GuShH how are you going to drive each axis
15:31 GuShH not a lot of clearance
15:31 robotustra dc motors
15:32 GuShH coupled how
15:32 robotustra 4 morots per eye
15:32 GuShH why 4?
15:32 GuShH I see 3 axis
15:32 robotustra 2 axis
15:33 GuShH the frame can be an axis
15:33 robotustra outer frame is fixed
15:33 GuShH bah
15:33 robotustra it's mounted on a head
15:33 robotustra 2 motors per degree of freedom
15:34 GuShH should've started with an arm
15:34 GuShH it would've kept you company while you worked on the other parts
15:35 demonio robotustra, very nice this project
15:35 robotustra I dont' know why, but most of people do the same error - they think that ARM is the most complex thing in the robot
15:35 demonio you should record it
15:35 GuShH robotustra: it's a sexual joke.
15:35 GuShH also a reference to the big bang theory show
15:36 GuShH so I don't know why, but most people like you do the same error! they ASSUME.
15:36 robotustra or they don't want to solve the main problem
15:36 robotustra and rely on others
15:37 GuShH I hate technical drawings that fail to show an exploded view and an assembled view
15:37 robotustra so I started from most complicated thing
15:37 robotustra what do you use?
15:37 robotustra solid works?
15:37 GuShH I don't have a license for that
15:37 robotustra and?
15:37 RifRaf i made eyes like that and they work, used 2 servos for each one
15:37 GuShH So I don't use it
15:38 GuShH I have ~3 months experience with solidworks... 8 years plus with C4D
15:38 robotustra RifRaf: and what is the precision of your stuf??? and do they do : weeeeeeeeeee-weeeeeeeeeee-weeeeeeeeeeeee
15:38 RifRaf remaking the brass parts with printed parts now, will be able to get it right
15:38 GuShH weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
15:39 robotustra I use T-FLEX
15:39 RifRaf the look at you follow objects and track movemove
15:39 robotustra it's much faster tha solid works
15:39 RifRaf as precise as servos
15:39 GuShH faster? that's nonsense
15:40 RifRaf printed some nice gimbals that fit cameras yesterday
15:41 robotustra GuShH: nonsense is that americans can't beleive that belarussian programmers can do better than american programmers
15:41 GuShH I'm not American
15:41 GuShH Why do you keep assuming things?
15:41 robotustra GuShH: nevertheless
15:41 RifRaf making faucet handles and t slots today for router bed
15:41 ShH eyer
15:42 GuShH robotustra: I didn't even know who developed it.
15:42 robotustra T-Flex is faster at all operations
15:42 GuShH Why would I even base my opinion on that
15:42 RifRaf to manually clamp down small bits of stuff
15:42 robotustra it was a proven test
15:42 GuShH You are being the fanboy here!
15:42 GuShH Proof is that industry does not use it primarily.
15:42 GuShH So whatever little benchmark they've made is just a marketing stunt
15:42 robotustra russians use it everywhere
15:43 ShH eyer
15:43 GuShH russians are russians.
15:43 robotustra and it's still biggest country in the world BTW
15:43 GuShH this guy!
15:43 GuShH can you believe it.
15:43 robotustra :)
15:43 robotustra relax
15:43 GuShH You relax.
15:43 robotustra :)
15:43 robotustra ok, solid works is shit anyway
15:43 GuShH I'll shove a vodka bottle up your arse if you keep this fanboy crap going! I take no sides, I use what I have.
15:44 GuShH I told you I don't have a SolidWorks license, too expensive.
15:44 GuShH How much is T-FLEX
15:44 GuShH The full license, unlimited.
15:44 robotustra http://tflex.com/student/license.htm
15:44 GuShH Wait, why are people selling stuff in Russia, shouldn't it all be free and equal?
15:45 GuShH I don't want a student license.
15:45 GuShH I asked to know the price for a full unlimited license, to compare.
15:45 robotustra don't mix socialism and communism
15:45 GuShH Solidworks' has several digits.
15:45 robotustra let's see
15:45 GuShH I mix it every day on my breakfast
15:46 GuShH I can't even find the pricing
15:46 robotustra I think I saw something like from 2500 to 5000
15:47 robotustra depending on pack
15:47 robotustra and of size of enterprise
15:47 GuShH mine is 1 penis big
15:47 robotustra it can do CAM/CAE I think
15:47 GuShH it looks like CAM is a separate package?
15:47 robotustra yes
15:48 robotustra it has a lot of modules and they can be added separately
15:49 GuShH robotustra: I don't choose anything based from where it is
15:49 GuShH But it's fine if you support it
15:50 GuShH Nobody said russians can't code...
15:50 robotustra there are some problems with this cad also
15:50 robotustra it doesn't work on win 8
15:50 robotustra yet
15:51 GuShH I don't like win 8
15:51 GuShH ever.
15:51 robotustra I cry and use it :(
15:51 GuShH lol
15:52 robotustra actually I can fuck up it and reinstall win7, but I have to get a lot of free time
15:52 robotustra let it be for a little
15:53 robotustra that's why T-flex lives in virtual machine
15:53 robotustra I saw some comparison between t-flex and solid works
15:53 GuShH why do I never have the right bolt in hand....
15:54 GuShH I've got boxes full of screws (all random mostly) but I never have the right one
15:54 robotustra may be because you have both left hands?
15:54 GuShH when I buy, I buy extras... but still, I NEVER HAVE THE RIGHT ONE
15:54 GuShH I don't get it, your Russian humour is too advanced for us.
15:54 MrCurious 95F ooutside now
15:55 GuShH MrCurious: relevant how? also if you want to start a conversation use Celsius.
15:55 robotustra I have two right hands, you have two left hands
15:55 robotustra like 36
15:55 robotustra 35-36
15:56 GuShH So he's got a soup brewing between his nuts
15:56 robotustra GuShH: on your place I would call Sheldon to arrange your bolts
15:57 GuShH Heh
15:57 GuShH I don't have that many of each, that's the problem
15:57 GuShH I'm not Adam Savage....
15:57 GuShH (He's got over 10k usd worth in bolts alone)
15:57 GuShH of EVERY size
15:57 robotustra I think Adam has arranged them
15:57 GuShH He has
15:57 GuShH In special organizing boxes
15:58 GuShH Which go on special racks
15:58 robotustra which costs more 10k
15:58 GuShH He actually has a complete boring, endmill, drill and center bit collection
15:58 GuShH robotustra: depends on amounts, over 100 of each for sure.
15:58 robotustra do you know him?
15:58 GuShH Do you know me?
15:58 GuShH I don't know nuthin
15:58 robotustra to some extent
15:59 robotustra I already can draw your psycological portret
15:59 GuShH Do it!
16:00 robotustra Some parts are missing
16:00 robotustra I'll tell you when it will be ready
16:01 GuShH can you ping something for me
16:01 robotustra I'll try
16:01 GuShH 200.69.218.169
16:01 GuShH it seems down. someone will have to get to downtown to see what's wrong with the server...
16:01 GuShH heh
16:01 GuShH "not me"
16:02 robotustra timed out
16:02 GuShH :(
16:02 GuShH it's on a massive UPS so it can't be a power issue
16:03 GuShH I think it's the actual ISP again
16:04 MrCurious try 2...
16:04 MrCurious OMG, its 35C here (or 308.15K for the physicists)
16:05 MrCurious some places up to 43.3C today/this week
16:05 MrCurious is that better GuShH
16:05 robotustra OMG, dig a well
16:05 MrCurious are you able to comment now
16:06 robotustra fock, BA is big
16:06 GuShH BALL SOUP
16:07 GuShH robotustra: It is?
16:07 GuShH Shall we pull out our rulers and measure to see which one has the biggest as well?
16:07 GuShH it's all about sizes with you man!
16:07 GuShH The only sizes I care about are MY BOLTS
16:07 GuShH And nuts. And washers.
16:08 robotustra what do you do in univercity?
16:09 MrCurious when you measure the bolt, you dont count the washers
16:09 GuShH you get high mostly
16:09 MrCurious LOL
16:09 MrCurious sounds like HIGH SCHOOL
16:12 MrCurious http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/06/new-yorker-cover-bert-ernie-gay-marriage.html
16:12 MrCurious hmmm
16:12 MrCurious what is ernie doing to bert...
16:12 MrCurious and why are the supreme court staring unblinkingly at it
16:13 robotustra can gay screw botls and nuts?
16:13 GuShH robotustra: http://www.astronomiainumbria.org/advanced_internet_files/meccanica/easyweb.easynet.co.uk/_chrish/clamb.zip
16:13 GuShH translating that onto 3d so I can toy with that design
16:14 GuShH knurling tool
16:14 GuShH straddle type
16:15 robotustra easy
16:16 robotustra but I don't know what is the final assembly view
16:16 GuShH robotustra: hah see what I mean?
16:16 GuShH diagrams should always have an exploded and assembled view.
16:17 GuShH those that don't, make you question whoever made them.
16:17 MrCurious death valley is 54C today
16:17 GuShH that's why it's called death valley!
16:17 robotustra what is the diameter of holes on side plates?
16:17 robotustra MrCurious: don't go there, we didn't finish yet
16:18 GuShH doesn't say
16:18 GuShH assumed to be 1/4 inch
16:23 GuShH robotustra: quite frankly if I can buy it I will, since I don't have a mill at the moment and they're quite a few parts...!
16:24 robotustra I can guess how this thing look like
16:24 robotustra looks like
16:24 GuShH I can see it as well, so? the idea is to toy with the design
16:24 GuShH see if it can be simplified
16:25 GuShH got most of it done
16:26 robotustra you mean to make it simpler?
16:26 GuShH yes
16:27 robotustra it's already quite simple
16:28 robotustra and what is mounted on fingers?
16:28 GuShH the actual knurling tools
16:28 GuShH they're cylinders.
16:28 GuShH with the pattern
16:28 robotustra ah
16:28 GuShH those you can't really make without a CNC at home heh
16:29 GuShH or a fancy setup on the mill, but the material is what matters
16:29 robotustra do you have to mount this holder on the lathe
16:29 robotustra ?
16:29 GuShH similar design, with the knurlers on http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/attachments/straddle-knurler-working-end.jpg-254d1350596218
16:29 GuShH yes
16:30 GuShH those are some fancy TiN coated wheels
16:30 GuShH not cheap at all
16:31 GuShH In fact from what I've seen they cost more than a basic holder.
16:34 robotustra so, if not to mount it firmly on a lathe it can be simplified
16:36 robotustra if to mount it on axis - one arm can be long
16:36 robotustra and another short arm can be mounted on longer one
16:36 GuShH MrCurious: if you die from heat exhaustion, can I has the mill?
16:37 robotustra it will be assimetric - but less parts I think
16:37 GuShH it has to apply even force on both sides
16:37 robotustra and I a house?
16:37 robotustra GuShH: it will
16:40 robotustra why do you think that it will not work?
16:41 GuShH it does work
16:41 robotustra I don't know why there are side plates
16:42 GuShH trying to put it together in 3d to fully visualize it and come up with my own design if need be.
16:42 GuShH don't worry I always do that
16:42 GuShH even with the dog's kennel.
16:44 robotustra do you sell this?
16:44 GuShH huh?
16:44 robotustra or you do it for yourself?
16:44 GuShH trying to make one for myself...
16:45 GuShH I can barely source the parts and you want me to sell them!
16:45 robotustra :)
16:45 GuShH there are lots of things I prototype and never build...
16:45 robotustra did you already finished 3D?
16:46 GuShH almost
16:48 GuShH not sure how those t-bolt nuts fit
16:48 GuShH and actually it's not that simple, look at the angled hollow on the fingers
16:48 GuShH making all of these parts would take a lot of hours
16:50 robotustra to draw or to make?
16:50 GuShH make
16:50 GuShH in real life. out of steel.
16:50 robotustra ah
16:51 robotustra take a cylinder - drill a hole, make threads and saw in in a half
16:52 robotustra I don't think that height is really matter
16:54 robotustra it can be higher or lower
16:55 GuShH oh server is ab
16:55 GuShH err back up
16:57 ShH idly sends an sms abou
16:57 robotustra you can simplify if you mill a slot of 5/8"+ in the main body and mount two arms on it
17:03 GuShH well it's all modelled... now to figure out how it all fits together, those nuts are kinda odd
17:05 GuShH http://gushh.net/tmp/knurling tool_0004.png
17:05 ShH would use metric threading and sizes ins
17:07 robotustra what time did you spend to draw it?
17:07 GuShH since I sent you the link to the image
17:08 GuShH oh and in between I had to make a call and send a couple sms due to the server fault...
17:08 robotustra :)
17:08 GuShH I used to be faster at this
17:09 GuShH ok I see why the nuts are like that... but it's not a requirement, it just adds another layer of complexity
17:10 robotustra I think they can be just a cylindic
17:11 robotustra 50 min
17:11 GuShH I most likely spent 25 minutes
17:11 GuShH had to deal with the server
17:11 GuShH it's up now, but intermitent
17:12 GuShH not sure how those plates function
17:12 robotustra I know how
17:13 GuShH pfft let me put it together and we'll see
17:14 GuShH the hell, those pins are too short
17:16 GuShH no circlips no nothing, how are they held in place
17:21 rue_shop2 Tom_itx,
17:21 rue_shop2 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SEDIMENT-BOWL-FUEL-FILTER-BRIGGS-KOHLER-PART-393169-/230846611343
17:21 rue_shop2 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ROYAL-ENFIELD-SPECIAL-GLASS-BOWL-FUEL-FILTER-/221141852971
17:21 rue_shop2 which one do you think is the better product
17:21 rue_shop2 not counting filter
17:21 GuShH robotustra: also as it stands it can't possibly fit unless you turn the fingers around, but then there's no support for the knurlers!
17:21 rue_shop2 for water sep
17:28 GuShH yeah it's not working out... something is off
17:32 Tom_itx rue_bed, the 2nd one looks like a plastic lid
17:32 Tom_itx so my money's on the first one
17:34 Tom_itx 2 available / 96 sold vs 4 available / 6 sold
17:34 Tom_itx kinda tells a story too
17:39 robotustra GuShH: if you noticed - this pins are springing
17:39 robotustra they are holding because of friction
17:45 robotustra http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2012/08/arresting_a.jpg
17:46 GuShH robotustra: it's a bad design
17:46 GuShH I WANT TO BE A COP NOW
17:46 GuShH Tom_itx: got some .017 "electric guitar string" they didn't have piano wire... this thing is 0.45mm instead of the 1mm I wanted though
17:46 GuShH I thought guitar strings came in bigger sizes too... but that's the biggest they had, odd.
17:51 robotustra :)
17:52 Tom_itx i have some
17:52 MrCurious omg, total wrong day to move furnature
17:52 robotustra GuShH: buy a peano string
17:52 robotustra MrCurious: are you going from one room to another?
17:53 robotustra err: moving
17:54 MrCurious wife bought a used makeup desk
17:58 MrCurious i think it would make a great soldering station
18:00 Tom_itx would or will?
18:00 GuShH robotustra: I just said they didn't have any piano wire.
18:00 GuShH it's not common for music stores to carry it here
18:01 Tom_itx what size did you need?
18:01 GuShH MrCurious: LOL
18:01 GuShH I needed close to 1mm, got 0.45mm
18:01 Tom_itx what gage is that?
18:01 robotustra GuShH: I saw a table
18:01 demonio good night robotustra GuShH and everybody
18:01 GuShH the paper baggy says .017
18:01 demonio robotustra, thanks for the help ;)
18:01 Tom_itx 17 ga?
18:02 GuShH demonio: addio
18:02 GuShH it's for C#
18:03 GuShH A uses .020, not sure what W is (.024W)
18:04 Tom_itx #17 wire is .039"
18:04 GuShH Tom_itx: .017" diameter (.432mm as per the bag, but in reality it measures .45mm)
18:04 Tom_itx well you got the wrong wire then
18:04 GuShH and sure enough I need twice as much
18:05 GuShH that's the biggest they had at the store!
18:05 Tom_itx cause #17 wire is .039"
18:05 GuShH and you can't say no to a cute blonde
18:05 Tom_itx i bet i could
18:05 GuShH but in music 017PG and such is in inches 017 = .017"
18:05 GuShH you could? pft.
18:05 GuShH oh and the breaking strength they claim is almost 70 lbs
18:06 robotustra http://montreal.kijiji.ca/c-acheter-et-vendre-meubles-bureaux-Beautiful-solid-wood-Desk-Hutch-W0QQAdIdZ499084702
18:06 Tom_itx and i've got a spool of #17
18:06 ShH pouts at this whole music t
18:06 robotustra good for soldering station
18:06 GuShH a spool of spring wire, what happens if it gets loose?
18:06 Tom_itx it makes a big knot
18:06 GuShH robotustra: looks nice but is it solid wood?
18:07 GuShH or they claim it is, but when you inspect it it isn't.
18:07 GuShH "it's so heavy it must be solid wood!" and it's all particle board inside...
18:07 GuShH the only solid wood furniture I have is surprisingly lightweight
18:09 GuShH robotustra: Almost two years ago I got a 5k usd wardrobe for 100 usd.
18:10 GuShH reason, the previous owner of the house had no place for it and couldn't be arsed to pay for the transport so he left it for the sum of 100 bucks, I also believe he didn't really know the real price of it.
18:10 Tom_itx http://howardpianoindustries.com/roslau-piano-wire-1-lb-coils.html
18:10 GuShH only one issue, it had a broken leg because they tried to move it (and failed to do so, clearly) but I fixed it and you can't tell.
18:11 Tom_itx that's good stuff
18:12 GuShH it's about 45-50 years old only, so I don't know if it's considered an antique?
18:12 GuShH Tom_itx: bah, maybe on a big music store they'll carry this sort of stuff... on the two small ones I went to, they had none.
18:12 GuShH in fact they had no piano related products
18:13 Tom_itx order it online
18:13 Tom_itx 1/4 to 1 lb rolls
18:13 GuShH .038, .039, .040 I could even use .036
18:13 GuShH I want it -now-
18:13 Tom_itx so about 16 to 18 ga
18:13 GuShH that's the only reason I would actually go to a store
18:13 Tom_itx it comes in half sizes too
18:14 Tom_itx 17, 17 1/2 etc
18:14 GuShH I roughly calculated I would need that diameter to push the fingers on the steady rests back, this thin wire I got cannot possibly provide enough force.
18:14 Tom_itx how about 24 ga?
18:14 Tom_itx that would
18:14 GuShH but since it was only 2 bucks I'll just try to wind a few and see how it goes, ain't got anything better to do today.
18:15 robotustra GuShH: it's written that solid
18:15 GuShH robotustra: then I would not trust it to be solid
18:15 robotustra I think so because furniture of chips doesn't costs 350
18:15 robotustra Montreal is a silly city
18:15 GuShH most people don't know what solid wood is, they are fooled by veneers very easily.
18:16 robotustra evryone moving
18:16 GuShH and they judge quality by weight
18:16 GuShH so the heavier it is the better it must be for them
18:16 robotustra yep
18:18 robotustra I think this table is not from sawdast
18:18 GuShH pee on it and see if it swells up?
18:18 GuShH then pretend to be a dog and run away
18:19 GuShH poop on their car while you're at it, for being such liars.
18:19 ShH shakes
18:19 robotustra :)
18:20 robotustra anyway it's too expensive, I think it's chiper to find metal one
18:21 GuShH damn you hooke
18:21 robotustra what?
18:21 GuShH I'm going to go commando on this.
18:21 GuShH hooke's law, robotustra.
18:21 GuShH I had the wrong spring constant.
18:22 GuShH and now I'm fed up with it, theory is for losers.
18:22 robotustra wife gave me a 5 min task
18:23 GuShH "go see if it rains"
18:24 MrCurious tried to sheer a cat... got 3 passes getting scarecely a ball of fur, and it ran away
18:24 MrCurious wonder if there is a better way to fix kitty dread-locks
18:30 robotustra steel can have very different coefficients
18:30 robotustra depending on sort of steel
18:30 robotustra and treatment
18:30 robotustra hooke's law is ok
18:30 robotustra what's wrong with it?
18:32 robotustra even for one sort of steel it can vary in quite wide range
18:41 GuShH alright it turns out I was right, half the diameter is not providing enough force for this compression spring... I do need close to 1mm thickness
18:42 GuShH oh well
18:42 GuShH it pseudo works on the fingers that are not as tightly coupled, but it fails on the rest... as predicted.
18:47 robotustra GuShH: do you simulate something? or you did a real rings?
18:47 GuShH I made the spring with the wire I bought
18:47 GuShH it falls short in force, like I thought it would based on rough maths...
18:47 GuShH (because I estimated I would need 1mm thickness for this material, but I couldn't acquire it...)
18:48 GuShH why would I even simulate a spring
18:48 GuShH these are just springs to push the fingers on the lathe steady rests back when you unscrew them, so you don't have to push them with your fingers every time (every part that annoys me on the lathe is being modified)
18:49 robotustra ah ok
18:50 robotustra where do you keep your lathe?
18:50 GuShH it's not setup yet
18:50 GuShH why
18:57 robotustra I mean do you live in appartment or in a house?
18:59 robotustra because I live in appartment and I'm going to buy lathe next year :)
19:01 robotustra I think one more machine and my wife kick me out :)
19:14 GuShH robotustra: house, but I don't have a basement
19:15 GuShH small garage... don't think there's space
19:17 robotustra at least something
19:30 GuShH robotustra: there's not enough clearance for the fingers on the knurler to open properly, given that main body part
19:31 GuShH the pivot design is horrible, it depends on interference fit
19:31 GuShH I don't see how those half circle nuts can work either if the fingers are opened more than a couple degrees
19:31 GuShH it would just bind.
19:34 GuShH for those half circle nuts to work the sides would have to be heavily rounded and I still don't think it would work properly
19:37 GuShH hmm a big chamfer seems to correct it up to a point
19:40 robotustra yep, the radius of nuts should be bigger I think
19:40 robotustra err: smaller
19:42 GuShH but even the handle would bind on an edge
19:42 GuShH this is a very bad design, after modifying it so the parts could move, it's still wrong.
19:47 GuShH http://gushh.net/tmp/knurling tool_0007.png --- http://gushh.net/tmp/knurling tool_0007_2.png --- I think that's how it goes but if that's correct, then even with washers the handle would bind on the top and only clamp on the very edge, in theory the nuts are taking all the force (and you'd have washers and a spring in the center) but still, I don't like it.
19:47 GuShH also chances are they meant to mount this on the compound of small chinese lathes, so if that's the case the body would be 180� with the notch pointing down
19:48 GuShH still, I don't like it at all.
19:52 GuShH http://gushh.net/tmp/knurling%20tool_0009.png
19:52 robotustra GuShH: I would like to make something like this: http://oi42.tinypic.com/rrikns.jpg
19:53 GuShH that seems unfinished
19:53 robotustra it's only main body part
19:54 GuShH you know, the reason the notch is pointing up on mine is because if they actually measured this for a specific lathe, then it wouldn't work otherwise. And the way I see it, you could remove the toolpost and install this instead, so it would have to point up
19:54 robotustra and what you did is wrong assembley
19:54 GuShH I just told you why
19:54 robotustra be back in 5 min
19:54 GuShH knurling requires a lot of force, even with a dual arm like this, so using the compound seems wrong.
19:57 GuShH I can see how they'd try to lock it if it were upside down, however then it won't fit any lathe.
19:57 GuShH http://gushh.net/tmp/knurling%20tool_0010.png
19:59 MrCurious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-wpS49KN00
20:00 MrCurious i think my taste in music has gotten worse cince the great musical drout that was the 90's
20:01 robotustra GuShH: you misunderstood the drawinds
20:01 robotustra let me assemble it
20:01 GuShH robotustra: do I have to wait until your russian software decides to work?
20:01 robotustra it works
20:02 robotustra I'm slow
20:02 robotustra my wife drill my brain
20:02 GuShH the fingers are correct, clearance on the inner portion even though I would use them the other way around, but then the inside ridge would not match, this is how they were meant to be put together
20:02 robotustra we are preparing to move
20:02 GuShH the nuts are how they should be, the handle is how it should be
20:02 robotustra nuts must be outside
20:02 GuShH and the holder seems to have been designed for a specific lathe, it's not for a quick change post
20:03 GuShH no if the nuts are outside then they'll bind
20:03 GuShH actually if you copied the drawings you'll see the body is wrong, the fingers cannot fit at an angle like they're on mine
20:03 MrCurious new rule. if you run an advert on youtube, you really ought to match the style of music of the song you pre-empt....
20:03 GuShH I had to make the slot wider
20:04 GuShH MrCurious: and?
20:04 MrCurious i misread the o for a u, totally changed the meaning
20:04 GuShH robotustra: QCTPs use dove-tails too, so it's not to be used like that
20:05 GuShH see for example a generic one http://littlemachineshop.com/Products/Images/480/480.2461.jpg
20:07 GuShH I would simplify further and if I were to make it work with the compound, then I would remove the entire toolpost and shove the knurler in there instead... problem is you shouldn't stress the compound like that, from all the carriages in the lathe it's the one with the smallest leadscrew
20:07 GuShH so if it were to be mounted on the slide, you'd use a different body design.
20:09 GuShH http://gushh.net/tmp/knurling%20tool_0013.png
20:10 GuShH now if I wanted to get really close to the chuck, I'd have the fingers on the other side.
20:10 GuShH or I'd mount it on the opposite side of the carriage
20:21 robotustra GuShH: http://oi39.tinypic.com/2cx72u.jpg
20:23 robotustra it should be like this
20:27 Jak_o_Android How do you normally dovthectwist bit of a servo robot arm? You generally dont want the whole thing hanging off the servo do you?
20:29 robotustra dovthectwist?
20:30 Jak_o_Android Bloody android. The twist bit where the shoulder is.
20:30 robotustra GuShH: you can't compress arms if you locate them as sown on your drawing
20:31 robotustra Jak_o_Android: are you talking about your robot or about somebody else android?
20:32 Jak_o_Android My robot arm that I'm working towards.
20:34 Jak_o_Android I'm still planning it.
20:38 MrCurious OH shazam http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y&NR=1
20:38 MrCurious dont look GuShH
20:41 GuShH robotustra: you can, and in theory the spring would keep the nuts pushed into the arms and help open them
20:42 GuShH but as it was and whether you turn the arms around or not, the nuts would not work and the body has not enough clearance for the arms to open more than 10�
20:42 GuShH MrCurious: oh?
20:44 GuShH MrCurious: isn't that how you should always play poker?
20:44 MrCurious when thats the stakes... yes
20:44 GuShH I'd tap 'em all
20:44 GuShH and then some
20:46 MrCurious damnit youtube thinks i am russian now
20:46 GuShH hahaha
20:49 GuShH MrCurious: you should defend me from robotustra, he claims I got this thing wrong! :<
20:49 MrCurious never seen two roboticist s fight before... could be interesting...
20:50 robotustra GuShH: http://oi39.tinypic.com/50it92.jpg
20:51 MrCurious looks like a tootsie cutter, or a pipe compression cutter
20:51 MrCurious why not spend $10 and get from home depot :P
20:52 GuShH robotustra: those brackets / side plates are not in the design
20:52 GuShH MrCurious: knurling tool
20:52 robotustra they are
20:52 GuShH no.
20:52 robotustra two plates with 4 holes
20:52 GuShH and yours are thin and have 2 holes not 4
20:53 robotustra I replaced them with cheeks
20:53 robotustra because it's stupid to bolt them to main body
20:53 GuShH those arms would collapse by the shafts at the end
20:53 robotustra and?
20:53 GuShH there's hardly any material left
20:54 robotustra so, anyway I show you how I imagine it
20:55 GuShH robotustra: I saw a picture of a similar one, with the round nuts outside, but they were not as depicted by the original drawing
20:55 GuShH as the original drawing does not work, there's no clearance for the arms they would just bind
20:55 GuShH the point is, if I were to blindly copy someone else's diagram I would've wasted time, money and materials
20:56 robotustra yep
20:56 robotustra time will show who is right
20:56 GuShH If I were to use the toolpost, I'd make it so the body is just a blank toolbit (3/8)
20:57 GuShH it's not a competition, it's a proof of concept...
20:58 robotustra ok
20:58 GuShH since the tool excerts side forces, either the pins or the body of each arm would end up getting some play in it, so maybe the best way is to support it from both sides
20:58 GuShH not just one side
20:59 GuShH even if that limits the proximity to the chuck
20:59 robotustra tell me please on this picture: http://gushh.net/tmp/knurling%20tool_0013.png where is the nut with threads?
20:59 robotustra up or down?
21:01 GuShH I see what you mean, I still don't like it
21:01 GuShH The author tried to copy a commercial design, that's why there are so many curves involved
21:01 robotustra and the second question: why your T-bolt touch arm at some angle?
21:01 robotustra the drawing is ok
21:02 robotustra you just misunderstood it
21:02 GuShH it's not, with the arms either up or down they cannot fit the body
21:02 Jak_o_Android Curves are probably good when casting/injection moulding.
21:02 robotustra they shoul be a little smaller than 1/2" diameter
21:02 GuShH Jak_o_Android: the idea is for this to be made at home
21:03 Jak_o_Android Was rrferrimg to "author tried to copy a commercial design....."n
21:03 GuShH robotustra: there's no way yours would close to a very small diameter
21:04 GuShH Jak_o_Android: probably did
21:04 robotustra yes I can
21:04 GuShH not enough clearance
21:04 MrCurious seems like we have not learned our furnature moving in extreme heat lesson
21:04 GuShH if you keep modifying it perhaps it will
21:04 robotustra 1 sec
21:05 GuShH MrCurious: pfft can't you take it apart and move small parts?
21:05 MrCurious now we are talking http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulc5q6QDI1A
21:06 MrCurious wrong link
21:06 MrCurious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPlHhk76tUc
21:06 MrCurious robotustra: will like that one
21:09 GuShH MrCurious: I think his Russian software is slow
21:09 robotustra GuShH: I wish you underestimate me
21:10 MrCurious or he has taken matters into his own hands :)
21:10 GuShH robotustra: I don't know what that means
21:11 robotustra GuShH: http://oi39.tinypic.com/24ay1x4.jpg
21:11 robotustra it's only 15 degree
21:11 GuShH And I've assembled it like you mean, it's a bulky piece of shit and has a limited range of motion, limited maximum diameter, limited lifetime due to interference fit on pins, etc.
21:11 robotustra and they are together
21:12 robotustra yep, but that's was the drawing
21:12 GuShH they made the plates so long because they wanted to support the arms
21:12 GuShH it's mostly a side load
21:12 robotustra yes
21:13 robotustra absolutely
21:13 robotustra and there is a radius on the plates
21:13 robotustra do you see it?
21:14 robotustra this is a maximal part radius for this tool
21:15 robotustra now tell me that I misunderstand the drawings
21:15 GuShH I tell you your software is slower than mine
21:17 robotustra I'm noob
21:18 robotustra in 3D cads
21:18 GuShH robotustra: I'm noob in understanding noob diagrams then.
21:19 GuShH put together by old metallurgical farts who never touched a CNC in their entire life, let alone CAD and they actually swear they're a bad thing.
21:19 robotustra this drawings is sucks
21:20 robotustra this is more sketch than drawing
21:22 robotustra GuShH: can you show your assembly?
21:24 GuShH no.
21:25 robotustra why? :)
21:26 robotustra because it resemble you mine?
21:27 robotustra or because you software is slow?
21:29 GuShH robotustra: because it's still in progress
21:29 robotustra :)
21:29 robotustra ok, let me play some UT
21:30 GuShH which one?
21:30 GuShH heh
21:30 robotustra Urban terror
21:30 robotustra in internet
21:32 GuShH robotustra: so copying your assembly, I think the body should go and instead a flat piece should remain with one or two holes for bolts, so then a dummy tool bit could be used to mount the assembly on a regular toolpost or a quick-change type of addon could be bolted instead.
21:33 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/Cube1.jpg
21:33 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/Cube2.jpg
21:33 Tom_itx well i had alot of problems with the mill while doing it but i finally got it done
21:34 Tom_itx not perfect by any means
21:34 GuShH I shall ruin it by asking what is it for
21:34 Tom_itx i just decided to leave it in the mill and finish it anyway
21:34 ShH runs
21:35 Tom_itx http://bgerber1.weebly.com/nested-cubes.html
21:36 robotustra I think it's a keychain toy :)
21:36 Tom_itx i had to rewire part of the mill during it
21:36 Tom_itx so things got a bit off
21:36 Tom_itx and i wanted to test backlash comp etc which are pretty good
21:37 robotustra is it a steel?
21:37 Tom_itx aluminum
21:39 robotustra what frequency?
21:39 GuShH that's one big ol' mill right there!
21:40 GuShH that thing must weigh over a ton
21:40 Tom_itx well he used a bevel cutter on his but i didn't have one that small
21:40 Tom_itx and mine is a cheapass sherline
21:41 GuShH still nice
21:41 GuShH bastard has all the cool toys!
21:41 Tom_itx it is one way to check that things are set properly
21:42 Tom_itx if your square is off it will all be off
21:42 Tom_itx same with the circles
21:42 Tom_itx and mine is off a bit but that was just operator error
21:43 Tom_itx i tried to dl his file but wound up writing my own
21:57 GuShH Tom_itx: rewire why?
21:59 GuShH actually I was just looking at the electrical wiring on this chinese lathe... it's pretty good, except for the mains cord, it's not even 2mm.. I would've thought it was 2.5mm at least.
21:59 GuShH they do go through the trouble of making and placing a sticker of the schematic inside though
21:59 GuShH will most likely end up removing the motor, lots of wires...
22:00 ShH shall take pictures and notes f
22:16 RifRaf am lovin new vapour bath http://imagebin.org/262936
22:29 Tom_itx GuShH, i had to rewire part of my pendant
22:29 Tom_itx some of the logic was interfering with things
22:48 Jak_o_Android purdy smooth plastic
22:51 RifRaf yep completely new feel to the parts
23:40 MrCurious and back :)