#robotics Logs

Jun 17 2013

00:50 Jak_o_Android electric fly swats are fun. not terribly useful, but fun
01:08 hackkitten painful? :)
02:12 Jak_o_Android never been stupid enough to check.
02:12 Jak_o_Android a friend volunteered several times and found it painful
02:13 GuShH Jak_o_Android: did he drop like a fly?
02:14 Jak_o_Android no, but it left welts :D
02:16 GuShH RifRaf: !
02:17 RifRaf hello
02:18 RifRaf GuShH ?
02:18 GuShH hi
02:18 RifRaf evening, got home from work
02:18 RifRaf now wondering what to print
02:18 RifRaf done everything i need for now
02:18 GuShH print a copy of yourself and leave it at work
02:20 RifRaf and i could sing eiffle 65's i'm blue blah da dee da blah dah, cause is the only colour i can print myself in
02:21 GuShH RifRaf: oh does the chink lathe have a hollow center and chuck for facing long stock on the 3 jaw for example?
02:21 GuShH you could be part of the blue man group
02:21 RifRaf 19mm hole
02:21 GuShH so print yourself without hair
02:22 GuShH that's tiny
02:22 RifRaf yes is annoying
02:22 GuShH hmm
02:22 RifRaf but gets most stuff done
02:22 GuShH it bothers me, they go through a lot of trouble to make these products (or copy them) and they fail at some basic points, always
02:22 GuShH is it me or are they fucking idiots in china?
02:23 GuShH they go through all the trouble to manufacture things and they fuck up on simple things all the time
02:23 RifRaf well they have the whole world buying from them now so they cannot be too silly
02:23 RifRaf i am generally happy with the products from there
02:23 GuShH I'm not saying they're all bad
02:24 GuShH Just pointing out that there are always shortcomings and it's hard to believe it
02:24 GuShH but they always have something that is clearly wrong.
02:25 GuShH already piled up a big list of flaws on this lathe but I can't find anything better without selling a kidney heh
02:25 Jak_o_Android lol rif
02:25 RifRaf yes, but generally the lathe has been good, i used it heaps for the first year or two
02:27 GuShH http://www.geocities.jp/gyrostick/newcq6123b.html
02:27 GuShH why won't chrome translate it for me :(
02:27 RifRaf looks pretty much identical to mine, =just different colours
02:28 GuShH http://www.geocities.jp/gyrostick/newcq6123b_2.html
02:28 RifRaf http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.jp%2Fgyrostick%2Fnewcq6123b.html&act=url
02:29 GuShH is that homemade cabinet made out of some japanese building material? heh never seen it, like big ass meccano.
02:29 RifRaf yep looks like meccano
02:29 GuShH only site I've found with detailed pics
02:29 GuShH that's japan for me, very detail oriented dudes.
02:30 ShH l
02:30 RifRaf i translated it for you ^
02:30 ShH
02:30 GuShH heh "I think it is made in China"
02:30 RifRaf heh
02:31 GuShH 500mm, the one I'm looking at is 750mm, I question the rigidity of them as they get bigger
02:31 GuShH since it's all pretty much the same
02:31 GuShH (as far as I'm aware)
02:32 RifRaf yeah i like to work near the chuck, but mainly cause i am too lazy to setup the extra supports
02:33 GuShH hmm cast gears
02:33 GuShH well, they had to be... cost wise it makes sense
02:34 RifRaf didn't pick up lathe again last weekend :/
02:34 RifRaf is always dark when i get home now
02:34 GuShH so the brass thingies up top are oiling ports
02:34 RifRaf yep
02:34 GuShH heh it's dark by 6-7PM here now
02:34 RifRaf is just a few holes really
02:35 GuShH I like winter, but I hate that there's no light
02:35 RifRaf 5.20pm here and totally dark
02:35 GuShH I'd be tempted to use heavy lithium grease
02:35 GuShH there's no sump for other type of lube... it would just run off and leak from somewhere
02:35 RifRaf GuShH, the gears are disengaged unless in use
02:36 RifRaf yep just drips off
02:37 RifRaf but i have the proper tray so it just goes on that
02:38 Jak_o_Android yeah, winter sucks
02:38 GuShH well ... summer does as well
02:38 GuShH I don't like going out when it's too warm
02:38 GuShH but since days are longer I think I do a lot more during summer
02:43 RifRaf GuShH, are you in the same hemisphere as us?
02:43 ShH has always been in Argen
02:44 RifRaf heh when you live 'down under' you just assume most everywhere else is in the north
02:44 GuShH Bah the translation is quite bad, I don't understand what he says about the clutch
02:44 RifRaf the clutch is ok
02:45 GuShH I think the lathe on that page was bought used
02:45 GuShH oh yeah those belts are not standard... that's going to be fun.
02:46 RifRaf yeah the belt is the worst part
02:46 GuShH hmm I think there was a massive crash a few miles from here, from what I just heard. we'll see what the news has to say in a few HOURS.
02:46 RifRaf but like i said easy to replace with a standard V sliced in 1/2
02:46 RifRaf so it makes a smaller v
02:47 GuShH how do you slice it accurately?
02:47 RifRaf i didn't, just did it with stanly knife
02:47 RifRaf held in vice from memory
02:48 GuShH on the pic it shows both are toothed belts
02:48 RifRaf took a little while, but the same belt has still never broken, and before i was coughing up $40 for belt every couple of weeks
02:48 GuShH there's hardly going to be any spare parts available for this in here
02:49 GuShH like the wood lathe I got, there are no spares. basically just a couple lathes destined for spare parts and when they run out, good luck.
02:49 RifRaf the shop i bought mine from has all the spares, but they cost
02:49 RifRaf so spares must be available
02:49 GuShH sure at a price everything is available
02:49 RifRaf they still sell the same model after 6 years
02:50 RifRaf i guess they don't change like repraps
02:50 GuShH I think it's older than 10 years, maybe 15 to 20 with small modifications.
02:50 GuShH but overall the same thing ever since.
02:50 RifRaf yep would not doubt that
02:51 GuShH I can tell with the wood lathes the chinese have been making them cheaper and cheaper on each revision, saw the new version of mine and it's even more useless!
02:51 GuShH the reprap seems to change and fork on a daily basis
02:52 GuShH don't know whether that's a good thing or not
02:53 RifRaf is good, because i think we will still see big advances in the next few years because of all the changes people make
02:54 RifRaf am pretty happy with the one i made, is producing great results now
02:54 GargantuaSauce yeah the i3 is a fantastic design
02:55 RifRaf but already 50% done of my custom one, which is a bigger version
02:55 GargantuaSauce having a lot of issues with my mendel...upgraded it to a 3-extruder version and the slave controller's firmware is absolutely terrible
02:56 RifRaf want to try dual extruders, and am sure there much be a way soon to have an extruder that could change colours
02:56 RifRaf GargantuaSauce, you have 3 extruders?
02:56 GargantuaSauce yeah
02:56 GargantuaSauce and it sucks
02:56 RifRaf wow, i am thinking 3, have the room for it
02:56 RifRaf too heavy?
02:57 GargantuaSauce firmware issues (freezing bugs, unwieldy interface for temperature control) and also it's very hard to get them all aligned perfectly
02:57 GargantuaSauce it's likely enough for a single hot end to slam into a print
02:57 GargantuaSauce having 3 of them compounds the issue badly
02:58 GargantuaSauce i havent had a successful print since the upgrade
02:58 RifRaf yep had a hotend crash the other day when trying to continue a paused job, glad it did not break
02:58 GargantuaSauce if it's not one thing it's another, or like 10 other things
02:59 RifRaf GargantuaSauce, you have any images of it?
03:00 GargantuaSauce http://workman-industries.net/images/reprap/tri_1.jpg just this one
03:00 GargantuaSauce i've since pulled off the other two heads but am using one on the slave controller as the only hotend
03:00 GargantuaSauce which does not save me from the firmware bugs
03:00 RifRaf are you trying to do 3 colour printing for a single object or printing 3 identical items at the same time?
03:01 GargantuaSauce it's for the former but the issues i'm running into affect single-material prints
03:01 Jak_o_Shadows I should definitely make a 3D printer. I have a lack of motivation, experience, tools, and parts
03:01 RifRaf looks like it sorta works
03:01 RifRaf Jak_o_Android, i have frames for sale that make it easy
03:02 GargantuaSauce i had to fix a bug in slic3r to make that happen in the first place
03:03 GargantuaSauce anyway because of all my problems i ditched the notion of printing parts and am constructing my hexapod with popsicle sticks
03:03 GargantuaSauce and it seems to be working out ok
03:03 RifRaf lol
03:03 GuShH Jak_o_Android: RifRaf is already trying to take your moneis!
03:03 Jak_o_Shadows I have a friend who's planning on making a laser engraver, I'll probably talk to him sometime
03:03 Jak_o_Shadows lol
03:04 RifRaf am just trying to make life easier for you, a decent frame seems to be the key
03:04 Jak_o_Shadows yeah, np
03:04 RifRaf because its all sqaure to start with, so then line up Y and Z with a square and your bed is level
03:06 RifRaf GargantuaSauce, i was just thinking of making hexapod legs this afternoon, for my little tiptoes robot
03:07 RifRaf its a mini hexapod, very simple, just 3 servos, but cool
03:07 GargantuaSauce cool
03:07 GargantuaSauce i'm going for the full 18DOF
03:08 RifRaf last legs were bent perspex rod, stretched and twisted to suit, and was ok
03:09 RifRaf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1RKkNn50eo
03:10 RifRaf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k-jhSLZ6xg
03:11 RifRaf ok gonna try design some parts and continue with the balancing robot
03:12 GargantuaSauce that's a pretty funky little design
03:12 GargantuaSauce i never think of making things that simple >:|
03:14 RifRaf yep was cool when i worked out how to make it sit and do other things with just the few servos
03:15 RifRaf will complete it this year hopefully
03:18 RifRaf GargantuaSauce, do you use ramps boards or something else for your mendel?
03:18 GargantuaSauce melzi
03:18 GargantuaSauce it's the reprappro kit
03:18 RifRaf will look it up, and it has support for 3 hotends or you had to modify it?
03:19 GargantuaSauce the former
03:19 GargantuaSauce i bought it before they finished the tri-extruder stuff and their upgrade kit when it came out
03:20 RifRaf so its not this one then? http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Melzi
03:20 RifRaf seems to only have 1 hotend output
03:20 GargantuaSauce http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRapPro_Tricolour
03:21 GargantuaSauce it adds a second melzi as a slave to run the two other extruders
03:21 RifRaf wow you really do have a cool reprap
03:21 GargantuaSauce yeah now if only i could get it working properly...
03:23 RifRaf so it worked fine with a single hotend at some point or never had it going well at all?
03:23 GargantuaSauce i had it working pretty well with one
03:24 RifRaf so wats the main issue now?
03:24 GargantuaSauce theres not really one
03:24 GargantuaSauce there's a whole bunch both in software and hardware
03:24 GargantuaSauce if i solve one, two others crop up
03:25 GargantuaSauce i am leaving for korea in two days but when i get back i am probably going to rebuild it completely
03:25 RifRaf i can imagine keeping each hotend free of excess filament could be hard
03:26 GargantuaSauce i am also strongly considering writing my own firmware and potentially even making a new controller
03:29 RifRaf thats would be lots of work i imagine, am very impressed with what i can do with ramps and the graphic lcd controller, would take me years to try do that
03:29 RifRaf just having an issue when printing from sdcard but i should try again
03:29 GargantuaSauce well or maybe the slave firmware will improve by the time i get back
03:29 RifRaf it keeps honing X or Y at random points durin the print
03:30 GargantuaSauce homing xy after each layer is a good idea
03:30 RifRaf but it puts spots all over the print
03:31 RifRaf it appears to be a bug though, not by design, someone said try another sdcard so will do that
03:32 RifRaf then i can take printer to work and show it off, without having to setup a whole computer for it
03:33 Jak_o_Android I'd be fine with that
03:33 Jak_o_Android i have plenty of old comps, and a netbook.
03:34 GargantuaSauce having a little soc with a touchscreen as a controller would be pretty cool
03:35 RifRaf this is the one i am using http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRapDiscount_Full_Graphic_Smart_Controller\
03:36 GargantuaSauce yeah i mean something running pronterface or perhaps that one with a web interface
03:37 RifRaf yep that would be cool, surely there will be one soon
03:38 GargantuaSauce all you need is an rpi or something
03:39 theBear RifRaf, oooh pretty
03:39 Jak_o_Android got a problem? Chuck a rpi at it.
03:39 RifRaf theBear, thats what i said when i first got it working :)
03:40 theBear heh
03:40 RifRaf had not seen it online
03:40 RifRaf so was nice surprise
03:53 GuShH RifRaf: I can't see any protection for the power feed on the lathe, is there any at all?
03:54 RifRaf not really protection like a guard, your tie could get stuck in there easy if you are silly enough to wear one
03:54 GuShH oh I mean something to turn off the power feed as it nears either side
03:54 GuShH so it doesn't crash
03:55 RifRaf it has a level
03:55 RifRaf lever
03:55 RifRaf but nothing to stop it crashing, have done that :)
03:55 GuShH is it automatically lifted when it reaches the end of the travel for protection then?
03:55 GuShH eek
03:55 RifRaf you need to be alert
03:55 GuShH see what I mean?
03:55 GuShH that's not an expensive feature.
03:55 RifRaf yep
03:56 RifRaf you could maybe make something to flick the lever that disengages it
03:56 GuShH why do they worry so much about saving 2 cents instead of making 4 cents by not saving the 2 cents
03:56 GuShH RifRaf: or some optical means with an SSR to shut everything off, but it would still have momentum to crash
03:56 RifRaf is a good idea, will have to try when i get it back here'
03:57 Tom_itx good operators know when to flip the lever
03:57 GuShH bigger / non chink lathes have a small inclined part near the end that lifts the lever automatically
03:58 GuShH Tom_itx: you could argue a good driver shouldn't have a need for airbags either
03:58 Tom_itx true as well
03:58 RifRaf one other issue i had was a bad capacitor on the motor, but my mate down the road who rebiulds electic motors had one once i worked out what was wrong
03:58 GuShH heh I don't worry too much about that
03:59 GuShH I've had to replace more run and start caps than I can remember
04:00 RifRaf yeah was something to do with starting the motor
04:00 GuShH well if it's a start or a run cap, it can't start without it
04:01 RifRaf yep i was sad when it happened, thought i had done the motor'
04:04 GuShH interesting, some of the mini lathes have DRO displays
04:06 RifRaf you don't want a mini lathe
04:06 GuShH I consider all of these to be mini lathes, but we agree by mini lathe I mean tiny hobby toy
04:06 GuShH unimat type of toy
04:07 GuShH however, interesting feature http://users.tpg.com.au/users/p8king/tl4000.htm
04:07 RifRaf yeah, would not be usefull for real steel, or anything of a usefull size
04:07 GuShH http://users.tpg.com.au/users/p8king/tl5019.jpg
04:08 GuShH must be encoder based
04:08 RifRaf yep does look nice, would be a nice one for a loungeroom
04:08 RifRaf and does look at least a bit useful
04:08 GuShH for the bed
04:08 GuShH hahaha
04:09 GuShH cute but expensive
04:10 RifRaf i'd never want a smaller motor than what i have though
04:10 GuShH 1000W they claim
04:10 GuShH I doubt it's 1000W... the one on the 750mm lathe is 550W I think
04:11 RifRaf is that like about 1.5hp?
04:11 GuShH 3/4 HP
04:11 RifRaf i think mine is only 1/4 or 1/2
04:11 GuShH we're on 220-230VAC also
04:12 GuShH my bench grinder is 3/4HP, same deal... but it's purely an induction motor
04:13 GuShH 550W means you can hook it up using your iphone earbud for wires, well not really but you can use it anywhere without having to worry about an expensive VFD, although that would be nice...
04:14 GuShH http://www.mini-lathe.com/m4/C4/c4.htm
04:14 GuShH UVW it's 3 phase so it has a tiny vfd?
04:15 GuShH oh DC
04:15 GuShH that makes it easier to drive and explains a few things.
04:15 GuShH it's like a threadmill motor in fact
04:18 GuShH hahah the cherenkov picture
04:24 RifRaf oh yeah, designed a new hub in sketchup and its printing now, this is starting to be cool
04:25 RifRaf well a hub, still cannot work out how to hook up these gears but on the way to working it out now
04:26 GargantuaSauce yeah i love the feeling of something you designed digitally manifesting in front of you
04:26 GargantuaSauce it rules
04:27 RifRaf not wrong there
04:27 RifRaf sketchups stl export seems to work ok with slic3r
04:28 RifRaf well its a plugin that i'd installed ages ago thats really useful now
04:39 GargantuaSauce all right, frame assembled
04:39 GargantuaSauce time to make some rudimentary software and see how quick i can make it tear itself to bits
04:40 RifRaf the popsicle hexapod?
04:40 GargantuaSauce yep
04:40 RifRaf get a picture before it rips itself apart
04:40 GargantuaSauce yep
04:40 GuShH get a picture after it does too
04:40 GargantuaSauce yep
04:40 RifRaf and after :)
04:44 RifRaf i need to spend some time getting bridges to work cleaner
04:45 GargantuaSauce use a cooling fan and decrease the extrusion
04:46 RifRaf is abs so have used no fans yet, have a few i can test with though
04:46 GargantuaSauce oh, dunno about bridging with abs
04:46 GargantuaSauce sounds hard
04:46 RifRaf the bridges droop a bit too much, but i don't want to print cooler, maybe slower will help
04:47 GargantuaSauce well slic3r lets you extrude less for bridges so the plastic gets stretched out
04:47 RifRaf ah ok, will have to look closer, i see the speed control for bridges
04:47 GargantuaSauce might be a new thing, i use the git version
04:48 RifRaf i am using the one that is packaged with pronterface
04:48 RifRaf was using the standalone but this works well for me so far
04:48 RifRaf once i worked out to export the settings
04:49 RifRaf and tell pronterface to use the settings, spent days wondering why no changes were taking effect
04:50 RifRaf apart from the bridges which is a bearing seat so not great, this part looks great, will let it cool before test fitting the bearings
04:51 GargantuaSauce fitting stuff to it while it's still hot is actually awesome, as long as you're careful not to deform it
04:51 RifRaf so much better than waiting all night and then trying to sneak it in at work, and have bearings on 2 sides so would not be easy on router
05:07 RyanS You can buy pretty much everything at local hardware shop but they look at you funny if you ask a set of transfer punches... sheesh
05:46 GargantuaSauce well i guess i called it on the tearing itself apart thing
05:46 GargantuaSauce dunno what happened but the servos freaked the fuck out when i first powered it on
05:46 GargantuaSauce and i just tested the electronics!
05:47 RifRaf :(
05:51 GargantuaSauce i guess the power supply couldnt take the inrush of all the servos starting at once
05:51 GargantuaSauce so the voltage dropped and the controller died
05:51 GargantuaSauce rinse & repeat, oscillating at a few hz
05:51 Jak_o_Shadows hence servos freaked
05:56 GargantuaSauce no serious damage though, gotta reglue one pivot snap and that's it
05:56 GargantuaSauce glad i didn't screw on the servo wheels
06:03 GargantuaSauce http://workman-industries.net/images/hexapod/hexapop_1.jpg
06:03 Jak_o_Shadows Ace
06:06 RifRaf nice work, far simpler for testing than 3d printing
06:06 RifRaf time for reboot here, print just stopped 1/2 way though, pronterface error
06:06 GargantuaSauce heh heh
06:07 GargantuaSauce did it actually error out or just freeze?
06:07 RifRaf freeze
06:07 GargantuaSauce when it freezes i yank the usb cable and it comes back to life
06:07 RifRaf brb
06:07 GargantuaSauce plug it back in, reconnect, recover
06:07 RifRaf will try next time
06:07 RifRaf too late now
08:00 GargantuaSauce one of my servos is backwards :/
08:29 rue_bed RifRaf, hmm, sounds like someone didn't put a reply timeout in
08:37 GargantuaSauce pretty much all of the software involved is infuriatingly bad
19:26 GuShH RifRaf: god damn! the lathe costs 100 bucks if you order 1000 of them... 100 bucks!
19:26 GuShH how much do they actually spend on each, 10 dollars?
19:27 GuShH it's ridiculous.
19:27 GuShH of course it costs over 2000 here.
20:03 RifRaf wow, 100
20:03 RifRaf that is so cheap, are you putting in a big order then?
21:37 rue_more they must be 3" lathes?
21:38 RifRaf a 3" lathe would probly cost like $2000
21:39 MrCurious Tom_itx: li-ion that last 27 years!!!! shame that would be a waste for windows boxes. they cant stay on that long.
21:41 MrCurious popsicle stick hexapod... briliance
22:58 Jak_o_Android is it working mrcurious?
23:09 MrCurious its GargantuaSauce 's
23:09 MrCurious Jak_o_Android: se above
23:10 MrCurious i just realized if you have a mill or and tap and die, you can make all manner of personal detainment manicle...
23:11 Jak_o_Shadows I believe I missed it during a disconnect, or while sleeping
23:11 MrCurious perhaps an adult boutique shop called "The Little Shop Of Horrors"
23:11 MrCurious GargantuaSauce: http://workman-industries.net/images/hexapod/hexapop_1.jpg
23:11 MrCurious there you are
23:12 Jak_o_Shadows ty
23:12 Jak_o_Shadows I should get some more servos, so i can do stuff like that
23:14 GuShH lol
23:14 MrCurious the 2 biggest things i have discovered while working on this robot are
23:14 GuShH GargantuaSauce : so wait, you've got a reprap but you don't use it?
23:15 MrCurious 1: standardize structural interconnect systems
23:15 GuShH or was this an excuse to get super fat on icecream
23:15 MrCurious 2 standardize information and power interconnect systems