#robotics Logs

May 27 2013

01:02 MrCurious perhaps too much glue
01:05 MrCurious and the sound amp is now noisey....
01:05 MrCurious need one of those ceramic-mettaly choke things
01:09 MrCurious and of cource i dont have one
01:09 MrCurious wonder if one is in a PC power supply. lets open it up and look
01:43 MrCurious and of courcec, once its inserted into the houseing, it begins to work intermittently
04:36 RifRaf added some extra support for the Z rods at top and bottom, and some square washer things to hold glass on http://imagebin.org/259144
09:02 rue_house RifRaf, its going well, how about electronics?
09:02 rue_house did you get the whole kit?
09:07 MrCurious rue_house: nice. you cnc the square washers?
09:09 theBear stupid local electronics doesn't stock ANY negative regs, not even 319/339 ! so i decided to get a couple lm723's cos they were cheap and i never heard of them, but they looked kinda handy.... might decide to use them anyway, haven't decided, but i have decided the whole approach/circuits i was fine tuning don't work with 723's, in fact they're only really appropriate for symmetrical pairs of 317/9 or 337/9
09:09 rue_house MrCurious, look to rifraf, not me
09:09 MrCurious you sir, are correct
09:09 rue_house isn't the 723 a 14 pin dip?
09:10 theBear umm, about that yeah
09:10 rue_house its for controlling a transistor, requires a heap of external parts
09:10 rue_house your better off with Tl494 ;)
09:11 rue_house need them asap? cant order ebay/china?
09:11 rue_house cat is not doing well with a cone on his head
09:12 theBear but it's a non-"gnd" referenced kinda general purpose reg, with internal half-opamps and currentey sources and stuff that make it able to handle all the sensible current limiting and voltage setting and sense/output feedback and a bunch of other crap, and it was either gonna be a couple BIG pass transistors and probably similar sized pair for the rail-commutating/switching in thing, this way it can be a huge pair of 'pass transistors' and one or two
09:12 theBear of these chips
09:12 rue_house uh, how many aps you goin for?
09:13 rue_house amps
09:15 theBear depends which combination of big transformer i already got and empty boxes and mounting gear i can find (not sure i even got a big washer/something to bolt the BIG toroid down) ...
09:17 theBear but i'm thinking at least 3 at any voltage, and probably more like 5 or 6, with symmetrical +- rails from maybe 0-50 or 70v with a single pot and adjustable reg for the whole range (per side most likely, unless i get sneakier) and similar single symmetrical current set knob
09:19 theBear i know it's kinda excessive, but i don't seem to be using these giant old transformers for giant old audio amps like i planned previously for some reasons, and if i juggle things just right i got all the components except for either these 2 new chips or a few more neg and one pos 317/319, but i got the 2 chips now, and unless i see a good reason to avoid them, i wanna try 'em out.. the numbers look fine on their own, i'm not familiar with bandwidth/r
09:20 theBear egulation%/etc on 317/9 (except that i've been led to believe they're pretty quiet/solid as far as common linear regs go), and big transistors and diodes and crap coming out my ears
09:20 theBear hehe, i should see a doctor about the last sentence :)
09:20 MrCurious theBear: sounds like a sickness
09:20 ace4016 if it was coming out of your mouth it would be normal :P
09:21 ace4016 (i keed)
09:22 theBear hehe, well played :)
09:22 theBear on that note, i'm gonna finally make me soem nummy dinner :)
09:24 MrCurious civ 5 is decimating this weekends productivity
09:33 rue_house haha
09:34 MrCurious i won via space race last night
09:35 MrCurious found no uranium, so could not make a giant robot
09:52 theBear shoulda grabbed the glowing america out of a smokealarm and lied about what it was :)
09:52 theBear look, it halflife's, occasionally... isn't that enough for you people ?!!?!?
09:57 MrCurious you people?
09:57 MrCurious who you callin you people?
10:03 MrCurious taco bell, it isnt just for breakfast any more http://www.manreviewsfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/spicybuffalochickengriller2.jpg
10:05 ace4016 hrm...i want tacobell now
10:05 ace4016 but i should eat yogurt instead so my blood pressure doesn't get higher
10:05 MrCurious oatmeal...
10:05 MrCurious or just take lisinopril or what i refer to as Lil Sinner Pill
10:06 MrCurious and your bp will be perfect and unfluxuating
10:06 ace4016 i'm young; i'd prefer to solve the problem than treat the symptom
10:06 MrCurious and if you ever miss a pill, your brain will try to explode
10:06 ace4016 lol
10:06 ace4016 and i definitely don't want dependance
10:07 MrCurious i had the migranes before
10:07 ace4016 just have to start excercising...get back down to a good weight
10:07 MrCurious the BP pill cured them
10:07 ace4016 not eating junkfood all the time will help too
10:09 Curious craves a bacon vindaloo in a soft flour tot
11:02 Tom_itx http://www.electronicproducts.com/Electromechanical_Components/Motors_and_Controllers/New_and_interesting_electric_motors.aspx
14:26 RifRaf rue_house, yes did get a whole, it has just not arrived yet, several key parts, the electronics are on, just have to wire the steepers to the controller board
14:27 RifRaf MrCurious, yeah cut the square bits, thought they would be better shape to hold the glass
14:31 MrCurious imagine the best way would be to get the glass cut to have corner holes?
14:31 MrCurious you have access to a water-cutter?
14:31 MrCurious :D
14:33 RifRaf not directly, this is holding pretty firmly, nicer than the big paper clips normally used
14:42 MrCurious leveled the bed yet?
14:46 RifRaf well only made sure its pararlell and level to ground, the the X is at 90 to it, spent a very hours tweaking with a square last night, and at moment still
15:10 GuShH theBear: finally got a big-ish wood lathe, new and 40% off, moving it from the store to the house with a vw jetta was a challenge to say the least, specially since I didn't want to damage the lining of the trunk or the back of the seats, that thing weighs nearly 100KG and moving it into such a tight space wasn't easy, I didn't even have a wrench with me to take it fully apart and the store had closed down (I would've bought the
15:10 GuShH cheapest one just to get the job done) ... imagine I saved on the shipping and it was 40% off already, very good deal... I only lost the box in the process (chopped it up on purpose to line the trunk)
15:10 GuShH But I gotta say, my back is hurting badly now.... :(
15:10 GuShH I even had a small incident where the entire lathe pinned down my left ankle, that wasn't pleasing.
15:11 GuShH Also, smug F250 driver passing by wasn't helpful. At least I know he spends 10 times as much on gas than anyone in my family ever did with any of their vehicles heh, assholes.
15:21 theBear hehe
15:30 GuShH theBear: otoh I wish I owned an F250
15:31 ShH would take good care o
15:34 theBear mmm, the older ones are still kinda cool... nice and solid too, course most cars were back then, probly all the ones that are still here now :)
15:35 GuShH yep
15:35 GuShH good old cars are still around
15:35 GuShH doesn't mean I like 'em
15:35 GuShH but it proves a point
15:37 theBear that being that you ate hippies and well "fuck dolphins and the beached whales they rode in on !"
15:37 theBear err, hate
15:37 theBear i wouldn't eat anything that smelled like that
15:39 GuShH LOL
15:40 GuShH problem: where to put the lathe
15:40 GuShH I really miss my basement
15:40 GuShH it was the gushh cave
15:41 theBear natural light doesn't hurt, good lighting in general up and out of the way is handy
15:41 GuShH the garage has a small window
15:41 GuShH but at that angle I rarely get any light plus there's stuff in the way
15:41 GuShH did I tell you there's way too many stuff in boxes?
15:42 GuShH I need to throw a lot of stuff away but most of what I got has some purpose
15:42 ShH is not a hoarder of useless s
15:43 theBear i recall you saying something about boxes
15:43 GuShH also since this lathe is the older version with no rpm readout I'ma have to cook something up
15:44 GuShH plus I want a strobe output
15:44 GuShH 16x2 sounds about right
15:44 GuShH tiny magnet on the shaft
15:44 theBear pfft, sissy, just look at the table for approx to the nearest 100rpms or ratios vs the motor speed and gear chosen/used
15:44 GuShH with a hall effect switch
15:44 GuShH hey I'm a sucker for useless features
15:44 GuShH I got a jigsaw with a FRIGGIN LASER on it
15:45 GuShH truth be told I'm going to replace it with a white LED one of these days
15:45 GuShH the laser is too powerful and it won't let you see the scribed line properly, even if I were to modify it to reduce power I feel a white LED is a lot more useful since I'm not always cutting straight lines
15:46 theBear FRICKIN LASER ON A FRICKIN JIGSAW ! outrageous, scotty do !
15:46 GuShH but the idea with the laser is so you aim it toward a small line at the end of the cut, that way the cut is straight assuming the laser is well calibrated
15:46 GuShH hey it was a cheapie, I can't afford DeWalt or any of that
15:46 theBear yeah, even if they are they don't tend to last well
15:46 GuShH mine wasn't calibrated in fact you could cut circles as it was.
15:46 GuShH well not really but you get the idea. it was way off
15:47 GuShH they give you an allen wrench for all that.
15:47 theBear most usable ones i've used/seen are where the beam matches the plane and thickness of the blade, then you just work to that... also thinking about it, the non-dirt-cheap tools came with special red safety goggles, kinda cleaned up the laser and gave it some contrast in bright sun/light
15:47 GuShH funny thing is the power supply for the laser must be a resistor or series cap
15:47 GuShH but it's always on
15:47 GuShH if the jigsaw is off, but connected to mains... after a few minutes you can feel the handle getting warm
15:48 GuShH god damn china.
15:48 GuShH I really should take it apart and fix it
15:48 theBear hehe, that's the integrated hand warmer for european markets
15:48 GuShH for parallel cuts they give you a tiny sliding fence/guide
15:48 GuShH it was crooked also
15:48 theBear warm isn't great, but a cap supply is good, no need to fix one of them
15:48 GuShH I had to correct it
15:48 GuShH theBear: I mean fix in the sense of rewiring
15:49 GuShH and possibly swapping the laser for an led.
15:49 GuShH I'd have both if I could
15:49 theBear yeah, you get that, gotta spend $700+ on a small (6"?) circular saw these days to get anything like a useful/stiff fence
15:49 GuShH it's like that with chinese stuff
15:49 GuShH you buy projects
15:49 GuShH not products
15:49 ShH facep
15:49 theBear heh, works for me
15:49 GuShH 700? I can't spend that on a circular saw
15:50 GuShH the guy at the store wanted to sell me one of those contractor tables that are like 10 in 1 with the saw and everything
15:50 GuShH it was way out of my budget and I told him so, but he kept trying to sell it to me
15:50 GuShH IF ITS SO DAMN AWESOME WHY DONT YOU BUY IT YOURSELF
15:50 theBear nah, i never would, but over the years i got pretty good at working the things, and a few people/companies i worked for decided that'd make me a tiny bit more awesome
15:51 GuShH I never used an actual circular saw (the handheld type, very american!)
15:51 theBear hehehe,he can't afford it 'cos he works at a hw store :)
15:51 GuShH is there an american who doesn't own one?
15:51 GuShH they have to, their homes are made with 'em
15:51 theBear i'm happier not knowing all the americans to ask them :)
15:51 GuShH I don't know
15:51 GuShH maybe the guy is a drug lord
15:51 GuShH and he uses the job for cover
15:51 GuShH you NEVER know
15:52 theBear they're pretty essential for a working carpenter these days tho, can't afford to take 30 seconds or a minute everytime you gotta cut a (pine) beam, and compared to a handsaw they must go thru hardwood stuff atleast 50x speed
15:52 GuShH Guy had a dead eye and a funny moustache, I don't think I can trust someone like that.
15:52 GuShH Well yes but the handsaw requires no power
15:52 theBear i usually do know, but that's a little outta my juristiction
15:52 GuShH and for someone who only cuts a few strips of wood every month... hard to justify it
15:53 theBear heh, dead eye and funny moustache is awesome ! with any luck i'll look like that in 10 years
15:53 GuShH I've built my electronics workbench with a handsaw and a screwdriver
15:53 theBear i know my moustache isn't getting LESS comical with age :)
15:53 theBear and i built most of my furniture the same way, but i coulda built it in 1/10th the time if i had a magic saw
15:53 GuShH mine is gone, but I still got a beard... I should shave.
15:53 GuShH well if we had magic tools we'd be looking at 'em most of the time instead of using them... I think.
15:54 theBear and i'm pretty damned good with a handsaw, but with a circular i can cut a straight line within .5mm accuracy over a whole 1200*2400mm sheet without even breaking a sweat
15:54 GuShH oh I built a dog house with those hand tools as well... it wasn't fun.
15:54 GuShH I didn't even have a miter box I had to build one first
15:54 GuShH and after I finished with the dog house the miter box was pretty much useless
15:55 GuShH wish I had a miter saw
15:55 ShH dr
15:56 theBear i was surprised when i had the choice of a regular size or BIG old makita (both fine tools) and the fancy new crazy saw how often i ended up having a good (seriously, no excuses, i can wait till after work to play) reason to use it,and my god, even compared to a 'regular' saw in good state of servicing, the thing was just heaven... big and solid and square, all the right gaps/giant motors in their places, rock solid joinery style bed and matching fen
15:56 theBear ce
15:56 GuShH :p
15:57 GuShH I don't want to know but you may have thought about having sex with it until you realized how foolish that would've been, specially if it was plugged in.
15:57 ShH runs
15:57 theBear yeah, compound droppey magic miter power saws can change your world in a ton of different ways... and one you got one it only takes a moment to pop it on a table/flat surface, turn off the non-use locks and be accurately sawing well within a single degree/360 in up to 3 different planes :)
15:57 theBear heh, we all gotta learn somehow
15:57 GuShH to each his own... fetish.
15:58 GuShH well I don't know you but women + power tools = good
15:58 GuShH until you realize they're just posing and they can't use them
15:58 GuShH that's such a turn off
15:58 theBear i dunno, i always feel kinda sorry for the powertools and the guy that had to modificate them
15:58 GuShH oh you mean drilldos?
15:58 theBear oh, you mean like that satisfaction video clip.. i like that
15:58 GuShH how did we end up in drilldo land
15:59 theBear you started it ! but i'm thinking about overly compressed and ridiculously simplistic 'techno music' and slow motion tool ads in bikinis
15:59 ShH ponders a book called Where's Dril
16:00 GuShH basically every page is filled up with random sex toys on a random dungeon and you have to identify the offending drilldo
16:00 GuShH *nod* I'm a genius.
16:00 GuShH Want to partner up? we could self-publish.
16:01 GuShH And this is entirely related to robotics by the way, linear actuators.
16:02 GuShH Interestingly (but not surprisingly) the sales rep had no clue of what was included with the lathe
16:02 GuShH Because I asked if at least one cutting tool was provided for the copy carriage and he said no, but I found 3 in a bag when I got home.
16:03 GuShH they're like the tools used on metal lathes but with a circular shaft instead of square. Kind of sad, I hoped it would've been square.
16:03 GuShH (that way I could get cheap different tools)
16:04 GuShH Of course you can make your own, but every time I tried to harden steel I failed or I got half way through.
16:04 GuShH (ie heat to orange, quench, heat until the desired colour is reached, quench, right?)
16:04 GuShH I can only conclude it depends highly on the type of steel used, ie. whether you succeed or not in making proper cutting tools
16:05 theBear lol, that does sound like a fun way to spend ones time
16:05 theBear and please don't use the term "partner up" in this context :)
16:05 GuShH I know, but I'm afraid to look it up maybe wheres-drilldo already exists
16:05 GuShH I used it on purpose and you know it!
16:05 GuShH self-publishing had a hidden innuendo right there, or kind of.
16:06 theBear hmmm, just bits or whole roundey chisels ?
16:06 GuShH I'm so matrue.
16:06 GuShH mature
16:06 GuShH roundey chisels and everything else
16:06 GuShH well I could get you a picture of the tools, they're for the copier but you can use them to turn perfect circles (or blanks)
16:07 GuShH cool thing about the copier is you can use a steel (plastic, wood, whatever) stencil or an actual wood turned piece, I found that kind of neat
16:07 theBear personally one of my favourite woodlathe tools is basically a metal lathe triangle bit 'built into' the tip of a thing like a screwdriver, needs constant sharpening if you using the sharp edge, but damn it's a good tool, angled for sharp accent lines, square vertical for VERY neat and square kinda cuts, various angles for hacking out the inside of bowls and things
16:07 GuShH much like the big industrial machines do it, except they're CNC and this is manual
16:08 GuShH of course I could maybe CNC it if I had Rue's karma
16:08 theBear heh, i don't need a picture, it'll look pretty much identical to the shelving below and beside my lathe since the day it arrived :)
16:08 GuShH I don't have any wood turning tools, if I buy some I'll get a parting tool first and then some basic gouges
16:08 theBear yeah, old fashioned manual copier, not real common, but damned handy
16:08 GuShH which lathe do you have?
16:09 GuShH type, not make since I'm not an expert on lathes
16:09 theBear seems people with more formal/assisted training than me do almost everything with those roundey chisels in varying sizes
16:09 GuShH you turn wood? and that has nothing to do with "spinner" women by the way.
16:10 GuShH saw a fine looking spinner yesterday though... yerp... *sip*
16:10 GuShH this all reminds me of King of the Hill somehow
16:11 GuShH we're just missing a trashbag, I guess flyback is banned here as well?
16:13 GuShH oh look it's LeelooMinai my nemesis
16:14 theBear mmm, i THINK it's a myford, one of those old classic brands, but basically it's a motor/multi-pulley lump at one end, you can hand-unscrew a kinda hatch over the pulley area and reach down to gently take the tension/weight off the swing-mounted motor to change gear (while stopped of course :) then a huge maybe 3" dia steel pipe with 3 or 4 lines cut into it running parallel down the length, the lathe side is maybe 1200mm from headstock to the furthe
16:14 theBear st you can mount the far one, you slip little tiny 'bars' into the side of the tubey thing and catch little kinda blind multi-holed 'nuts' that clamp the various fittings to the main shaft thing... then the other side of the motor (motor lump is mounted right on one end of the table,) has an output shaft you can fit a few different pulleys and bits onto, there's a little tiny single-adjustable-angle miter/circular saw table (clamps onto the protrudin
16:14 theBear g end of the same main metal railtube), a maybe 12-16" bandsaw, table-electric-plane with adjustable angle side-guide and big cast sprung safety/finger cover.. erm, tables for things like big sanding plate/discs etc... it's pretty frickin awesome
16:15 theBear i'm pretty comfortable with anything woodlathe related, but haven't been literally taught/stood over or discussed with experienced/professional users since i was under 10... i guess i don't know half the words, and forget the other half :
16:19 GuShH ah
16:19 theBear also if you've done more/some metal lathe work over the years, keep in mind that wood ain't like metal... particularly simple things that are easy to forget like how it's IMPOSSIBLE to remount wood accurately on the stock(s), and doesn't matter if you using 3/4jaw or single spike or bit flat chisel-drivey-spike or whatever you may have... they aint tapped machined holes, and they aint going back perfectly aligned... also on the same kinda note be awa
16:19 theBear re that if you leave something say, overnight, it could well be a different shape/bend than when you last saw it
16:19 GuShH this one has a lever for the speed changer (just moves the belt around the pulleys) it only works when it's moving
16:19 GuShH not electronic speed control
16:19 GuShH that's for fancy lathes
16:19 GuShH DC motors...
16:19 GuShH actually threadmill motors are amazing for this, but I could never find a cheap one
16:20 theBear wow, so like, entirely unassisted and ugly gear shifter eh ? just kinda, nudges the moving belt ? i'm not sure i like that at all
16:20 theBear what's a threadmill motor ? oh, you mean a sweatshop motor ?
16:20 theBear or i should say a primary-production-sweatshop motor :)
16:20 GuShH heh
16:21 GuShH tread I guess.
16:21 GuShH y-u-makin-fun-o-me
16:21 theBear i aint ! dammit !
16:21 theBear "hey dude, are you being ironic, or do you really like it ?" "I DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYMORE ?!?!?! :((("
16:21 GuShH not too happy with some of the parts on this lathe since they're plastic instead of cast aluminum
16:21 GuShH (handles)
16:22 GuShH but I can always cast my own, in theory
16:22 GuShH I've only cast small cylinders with aluminum, nothing else.
16:22 GuShH I don't even have a proper die and tap set at the moment
16:22 theBear mmmm, i'm more used to cast 'iron' kinda period, but yeah, shouldn't be impossible to make bits and pieces
16:22 GuShH it has cast iron tailstock and all that
16:23 GuShH but the tailstock handle has a plastic part
16:23 GuShH and I don't like that.
16:23 theBear they're seldom critical in more than (or even) 1 regard, and usually if they are they would be cast over a little then ground/surfaced/whatever is needed for that part
16:23 GuShH having it though I can make a mould and cast one out of aluminum, but I'll need a tap for the threads
16:23 theBear lol, is there anything you DO like about it ?
16:23 GuShH the price, and the fact that it should work
16:23 GuShH I looked for used ones
16:24 GuShH they are basically garden decoration pieces by now
16:24 theBear you're a grown man, like me you should have taps and at least some common dies, but like me, you don't :(
16:24 GuShH that's how bad they all were
16:24 GuShH missing motor, missing tailstock, missing belts, missing everything basically they only had plenty of RUST
16:24 GuShH I could've stole a kit from this apartment I was renting, the owner left 'em there
16:24 GuShH I didn't. Regrets? maybe.
16:25 ShH g
16:25 GuShH I'm not going to steal tools from anyone, that's not me.
16:25 GuShH It was a high quality swiss made tap and die set, forgot the brand but it was high end.
16:25 GuShH metric and everything in between
16:26 theBear mmm, i wouldn't worry, you can change bits as you feel/need and in the meantime, pretty much ANYTHING that spins makes a fine hand/woodlathe... i saw a video a while back of some 3rd world (indian maybe?) dude in the street doing manual woodlathing of touristey kinda stuff, forget all the details, but something like a chunk of wood with a shape carved into it sitting on the ground, a foot on that to keep the workpiece relatively in place, maybe other
16:26 theBear foot running a cord twisted around the workpiece for spinning back and forth and maybe one hand each for tool and 'endstock' ... either way, looked like once you got used to the manual spinning and back+forth direction of it, you could knockout stuff in softwood in no time
16:27 theBear i sure hope not, tools should be stolen even less than everything else
16:27 GuShH heh
16:27 GuShH yeah first lathes were like that
16:28 theBear i've seen those err, 'greenwood'? lathes, those i can imagine being used 'professionally' in the past, but this was really nothing, a couple lumps of wood, the workpiece and a string, maybe attached to a stick or similar like a bow
16:29 GuShH I'm just missing a 3 or 4 jaw chuck and some smaller chucks for drill bits
16:30 GuShH cone tapered chucks, what's their name?
16:30 theBear jaw/clamp chucks are less than common in woodland
16:30 theBear umm, flange maybe ?
16:32 GuShH dunno here they call em morse taper
16:32 GuShH number 2 and 3 that's what this thing uses
16:32 GuShH I think 3 is for the tailstock (bigger number, bigger "general" cone diameter?)
16:32 GuShH well, clamp chucks are used a lot these days in wood turning
16:33 GuShH since it makes your life easier and they're a lot more accessible now
16:33 GuShH you just need a metal lathe to cut an adapter for it >_<
16:33 GuShH (or someone with said tool/s)
16:33 GuShH I think they don't even come with a blank "plate" you can use, since the thread count and diameter for the mounting could be anything (even though there are a few standard sizes out there)
16:34 GuShH speaking of plates they do give you a basic plate you can screw wood on, for end-grain type of turning
16:34 GuShH vases and all that fancy not so manly stuff
16:35 theBear i suppose they aren't the technological/mechanical wonder they were 50 years ago anymore :)
16:35 GuShH plus you can use a small 16 or 20mm regular chuck on the tailstock to drill out starter holes or bore big holes with the proper bits
16:35 GuShH forester or whatever they're called, forstrer?
16:35 GuShH well you get the idea.
16:35 GuShH stupid surnames.
16:36 theBear not strictly end stuff, ever now and again you just think "it'd be damned handy if i could screw this down rockhard today", and then "oh wait ! i CAN do that :)"
16:36 theBear umm, spade bit ?
16:36 theBear oh no
16:36 theBear wait for it !
16:36 GuShH I do have spade bits but those are considered antics compared to those I just named
16:36 GuShH or half named
16:36 theBear auger
16:36 GuShH they don't leave a pilot hole
16:36 theBear or aunger, only heard it mumbled by builder types, not written :)
16:36 GuShH since they have no centering requirements the tool centers it
16:36 GuShH afaik
16:37 GuShH oh well it seems both exist
16:37 GuShH with and without self centering / guide bits
16:37 GuShH and they're "forstner"
16:37 GuShH I swear I've seen ones that don't leave pilot holes behind
16:37 theBear most augers around that kinda size/material got a tiny tiny little corkscrew just to 'break the surface' but a couple mm of that on a 1" or so bit and it's into the serious fluted body
16:37 GuShH but they are typically expensive bits compared to the spade ones, they do give you a much better end result
16:38 GuShH but you can easily sharpen a spade bit, not sure about the forstner ... it seems rather complex to sharpen
16:38 theBear oh those things, like a milling bit for timber
16:38 GuShH yerp
16:38 GuShH heh milling bits in general are NOT cheap
16:38 GuShH at least the ones you'd want to buy and have 'em last
16:39 GuShH I guess what I've seen was an actual metal milling bit used on wood, but it looked just like these forstner ones.
16:39 theBear just glancing at the wide wide world of image machines, sharpening should be THAT bad... 2 main cutting edges, both ground flat from the 'back/inside' of the bit, then hmm, i wouldn't try to sharpen the tip unless i really had to, maybe chuck it in a lathe to do it :)
16:40 GuShH the tiny center bit helps reduce vibration I would imagine, otherwise why would you need one on a tool that perfectly supports and centers it
16:40 theBear the image machine has just about every variation/subtype of them i can imagine just on the first page
16:41 GuShH I sharpen my spade bits with the bench grinder, it's like sharpening a chisel
16:41 GuShH anyway the point is, a whole set of those is not cheap
16:41 GuShH and without a tiny chuck for 'em on the tailstock, why even bother
16:41 theBear bits like taht really are 100% umm, pareing (sp?) in action, not like a regular drillbit forcing itself thru stuff... once they've broken the surface, or so long as they perfectly level when they hit it, there's nothing to encourage them to move
16:42 theBear belt sanders are suprisingly good for chisels and things it's nice to have a rounded edge, jam/clamp the sander somehow you don't gotta think about it, and just kinda ride the front roller much like you would use an old spinning/disc sharpener
17:10 zhanx skipping the boring parts, : http://youtu.be/-eej-7t5q7c tell me if you think it will work
17:12 theBear what, physical counterbalance instead of electronic/digital virtual one to make a balancer move ?
17:13 theBear oh wait, you didn't skip the boring parts :)
17:13 theBear so what is the question really ?
17:14 theBear is that you ?
17:16 zhanx physical counterbalance
17:16 zhanx yes
17:17 zhanx beats using tons of power on the motors for it, i would think
17:18 theBear hehe, you talk different to people here, heheehe... so what's the question ? is it gonna be a straight balancer physically arranged to have a low center of balance that lines up with the wheels at idle, thus allowing slight movement of the ballast weight to 'cause' rolling movement, or you wanna counterbalance against movement during accell/decel or err what's the question ?
17:19 zhanx balance during moving movement. to stay level, and while stoped
17:19 theBear tho if you watch a few balancer vids, you'll notice quickly that you have to get them pretty close to balanced or they wander when trying to idle, and between quick/tiny corrections for 'falling over' the motor IS idle
17:19 zhanx k
17:19 theBear thinking further about that, your one won't ever be particularly challenged, usually balancers got a high center of balance to make things look unfeasible and mindblowing
17:19 zhanx this is for a test for a much large bot, to see if power consumed by motors is greater that counter weight
17:21 theBear consider a regular hand-driven wheelchair... you COULD 'balance' it on any angle on the two big wheels, but if that angle isn't balancing the weight of everythign (center of gravity) over the axle, you'll need to constantly accellerate/decellerate to stay at that chosen angle
17:21 GuShH theBear: don't have a belt sander, only an orbital one... not a big fan of it
17:21 GuShH works but it's meh.
17:21 GuShH thing is you can use regular sand paper
17:22 GuShH just cut one sheet in half and you're set
17:22 GuShH belt sanders not so much... and replacement belts aren't cheap here
17:22 GuShH even though they last longer they're a lot more expensive in general
17:22 GuShH and I think swapping them takes longer
17:22 theBear they've got a place in this world, but it isn't nearly as broad as people who only have an orbital tend to think :)
17:23 GuShH I wanted a bench grinder with a sharpening end (water wheel, low speed reduction box) but it was a lot more expensive than the regular one
17:23 GuShH might get one some day though, it's neat.
17:23 zhanx got one at work so that counts for me
17:23 theBear most belt sanders have a large-movement/belt change kinda lever on them, probably get a new belt on and aligned inside of 10 seconds when yer used to it
17:23 GuShH 2 levers on the orbital that pinch the paper, takes about 10 seconds too if you're fast
17:23 zhanx 30 secs
17:24 GuShH problem is the paper can tear on the corners if you aren't careful... I would imagine the belt can break too
17:24 GuShH specially if you were to hit a nail or something sharp
17:24 zhanx it can, but tends to sand down nails
17:24 GuShH like I said belts aren't nearly as cheap
17:24 GuShH they're useful, but I can't justify one at the moment
17:25 zhanx neither can i, use my work one if needed
17:25 GuShH -_-
17:25 theBear also belt sanders are limited in scope if you use them properly, but their big advantage is power transferred to the paper, a biggish belt sander with a half-bastard kinda paper on it CHOMPS through almost any kind of wood there is, which reminds me, ironwood is harder than rock, none of your tools will do well, but if yer not REAL gentle the belt will overheat and break, and if you ever do sharpen tools on a belt sander, go easy to avoid setting eve
17:25 theBear rything on fire, and emptying/removing the bag doesn't hurt
17:25 GuShH well I just use different grits to "chop" down fast
17:26 GuShH which is why I mentioned swapping speed, since I do change the paper quite a bit
17:26 theBear i wornout a LOT of belts over the years, but that's the only time i broke one, didn't know they overheat and i was bored holding back this huge heavy sander and not seeing a scratch on the surface of the timber
17:26 GuShH heh
17:26 theBear heh, i'm talking taking 1/4" off hardwood in maybe 20 seconds fast
17:27 theBear they're serious business
17:27 GuShH I could use one to level the wooden floor upstairs
17:27 GuShH it's cobble hardwood stuff
17:27 GuShH but it was either improperly installed or something odd happened (moisture?) since a lot of them are off level
17:27 GuShH and kind of all over the place
17:28 theBear cobble ? like parquetry ?
17:28 GuShH you'd use a big ass rotary sander / leveler for that kind of job... maybe one of those polishers with a sanding set of discs
17:28 theBear oh, a floor polisher, yeah
17:28 GuShH maybe but it's just wooden blocks
17:28 GuShH some are 6mm or higher up than the rest
17:28 theBear yeah, lots of wooden blocks in a pattern is parquetry, and more than other types of traditional/real timber floors, they tend to shrink and change size/shape as the years go on ...
17:28 GuShH I'm pretty sure underneath all the dust and crap there's some fine wood in there, I just haven't had the time nor tools / money to fix it
17:29 GuShH no pattern than I can see
17:29 GuShH maybe not all blocks were cut properly
17:29 theBear technically basketball courts are also parquetry, but i look at them more like very nicely assembled regular flooring with skinny boards
17:29 GuShH and that's why they've changed shape so much
17:29 theBear usually by this stage in history if there was ever a pattern it's just a jumbly mass of loose shrunken blocks these days
17:30 GuShH the only thing I did to that floor was cleaning it with a damp mop
17:30 GuShH and it's still mighty dirty
17:30 GuShH it really needs to be levelled and polished
17:33 GuShH bah I keep forgetting I don't own a wifi camera...
17:36 GuShH theBear: here they are http://gushh.net/tmp/woodlathe_copier_tools.jpg
17:36 GuShH quite coarsely made
17:37 GuShH not sure what the "roundy thingy part" is yet... the exploded view doesn't show it or I'm missing it
17:37 GuShH has nothing to do with the live center since it's mounted on a ball bearing
17:37 GuShH not a bushing
17:38 theBear hehe, sure are coursely made, looks like someone took to a half-made coldchisel with a serious grinder, then got bored after a little bit :)
17:38 GuShH oh look at that, superglue on the glass... better get a scraper
17:38 GuShH that's china for ya
17:38 GuShH thing is, they have maybe 10 seconds to make one
17:39 GuShH we have 10 hours if we want.
17:39 theBear can't quite remember why, but it's not uncommon to have both a rotating and a fixed end/centerstock thinger
17:39 GuShH that's why I say chinese products are projects
17:39 theBear oh don't worry, i got that the first time :)
17:39 GuShH not sure how you'd make that cylinder part of the live center or anything to do with the spindle
17:39 GuShH it must be part of the copy carriage which I haven't put together yet, not fully.
17:40 GuShH otherwise maybe it fell off the chinese bench? heheh
17:40 GuShH part of a punch tool maybe? :>
17:40 GuShH I'm sure I'll figure out.
17:40 GuShH err, figure something out.
17:41 GuShH the copy cart seems handy but it must get in the way a lot and removing it takes a bolt or two, not sure I'll have it on all the time
17:41 GuShH theBear: the reason the steel on those bits is black is due to the oil quenching or do they bathe them in boiling oil for X minutes? (what's that called?)
17:42 GuShH I seem to recall something about the process but not the name
17:42 GuShH actually some of those baths are just for looks only but others have some good benefits on the tool, it's all too blurry at the moment to remember
17:43 theBear do i look like a chinese 'toolmaker', or conan the barbarians father to you ?
17:43 GuShH why yes you do!
17:43 GuShH the process is used by pretty much every manufacturer out there, not just in China :p
17:43 theBear heh, you're too kind, but really, i don't look lik ethat anymore
17:44 GuShH speaking of conan I made a holdfast with no real furnace, just a wood fire and a big ass hammer.
17:44 GuShH it looks fugly but it works.
17:44 theBear fine, do you see me wearing tight denim shorts and carrying huge buckets of molten metal while singing out "hot thtuff ! coming THRU !"
17:45 GuShH so is soy in general a shemale factory?
17:46 GuShH this has been bothering me a lot lately, not sure why.
17:46 GuShH theBear: not sure, maybe you do it when I'm not looking or listening!
17:46 GuShH denim shorts are ok, not sure about them being tight...
17:46 GuShH I don't use anything tight
17:46 GuShH I'd use some tight leather pants though, but only to ride a harley.
17:47 ShH g
17:48 ShH only has an old leather jacket, he wouldn't wear it if it was tight th
17:48 theBear huh ? they make shitty tasting milk not manwomen ... oh wait, that's SoGood
17:49 theBear i got an old bike jacket, could do with a new inner lining or at least tearing what's left of the old one out, otherwise very nice
17:53 GuShH well they say soy actually ends up mimicking estrogen when taken in big amounts, which we all know will make you crave sausage.
17:53 theBear i wouldn't know that, i would never consume soy in those kinda amounts, and well, while i occasionally crave a hotdog i never craved snossages that i can recall
17:53 GuShH heh brother calls me saying his jetta smells like "burnt plastic" and his turn signals aren't working
17:54 GuShH ohh I want a hotdog now
17:54 zhanx he let out the magic smoke
17:54 GuShH with fries on top
17:54 GuShH and all that good stuff
17:54 GuShH I'm thinking relay is gone, or wiring short (causing fuse to go also)
18:04 GuShh_ o.o
18:06 GuShh_ bah better get the meters ready if I'm going to fix this fool's car again
18:06 GuShh_ theBear: what do you use to find shorts aside from your nose?
20:30 MrCurious wow BBC news... make me think i am going to get dose of that techno-rave-of-doom theme music, and then yank it...
21:28 theBear GuShh_, umm, while the clothes storage is slight under construction/temporarily relocated in several areas, i think i'd go to the bench-seat/bedside dept, righthand pile for shorts, and if i wanted jeans i'd go to the jeans shelf in the far cupboard :) of course dress pants and formal black cords live on hangers in the lefthand door/grownup people section of the hanging clothes, then there's 'smart casual' at the end of that, fancy hawaiin shirts an
21:28 theBear d 'stylish' button ups/short sleeves... next 2 doors is ALL the tshirts on hangers, coded by colour, sleeve length and wornness (on a scale from grey/holey to black) ... currently i'm in two minds about the 'right' way to sort things by colour AND sleeve length, but i think i'm getting pretty close, even if i haven't defined what i'm doing so i'm aware of it :)
21:28 theBear my clothes have never been so organised, and i still consider the system/locations nowhere near finished :)
21:33 Tom_itx where do you set the logging directory in xchat?
21:37 theBear umm, in the gui config is the normal approach, one moment
21:37 Tom_itx i think i found it
21:37 Tom_itx unde file transfers
21:38 Tom_itx or is that just for dcc?
21:38 theBear hmmm, i coulda sworn there used to be an option, looks like now you can only open the dir and/or try putting paths into the filename fields
21:39 theBear probly not worth worrying, apparently xchat is 'officially' dead and we should be seeing if we don't mind hexchat too much before support totally runs out and it just sits there, like a steaming turn in a busy airport :)
21:39 Tom_itx but but.. i like xchat
21:41 Tom_itx what do you use for an email client in linux?
21:44 LoRez mutt
21:45 LoRez I haven't used xchat in a long time
21:46 Tom_itx what are you using?
21:47 LoRez screen and irssi
21:57 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: try kvirc
21:58 Tom_itx i've got xchat and xchat2
21:59 Tom_itx are they gonna do away with xchat entirely?
22:02 LoRez it's open source. how would "they" do away with it?
22:04 Tom_itx <theBear> probly not worth worrying, apparently xchat is 'officially' dead....
22:05 LoRez theBear says a lot of things.
22:05 Tom_itx you gotta believe it if you heard it on the internet!
22:06 Triffid_Hunter I've heard that the xchat project collapsed in on itself.. too much politics, not enough commits
22:06 Triffid_Hunter like ffmpeg
22:07 theBear me too :( but apparently this new one will be close enough we won't riot (like xmms/audacious switch a few years back) ... sorry got fonecall.. i'll quote
22:07 theBear and i DO say lots of things
22:07 theBear :)
22:07 zhanx lots
22:07 zhanx circumference of a circle. I did it wrong i was like pi*r sq =c
22:08 zhanx not d*pi
22:08 zhanx i suck
22:08 Tom_itx woops
22:08 zhanx good thing i am just making a chart of sizes of wire to cut
22:08 zhanx not cutting
22:09 Tom_itx AWG?
22:09 Tom_itx 0..40
22:09 Tom_itx in steps of 2
22:09 zhanx depends on what the local place has i want 10
22:09 theBear 2piR and pi.r^2 (or is it (pi.r)^2 ? i always forget but a quick test or two confirms)
22:09 Triffid_Hunter pi.(r^2)
22:10 Tom_itx .1019 D
22:10 theBear oh, d = 2*r ... pi.d == 2 pi r ... i get it
22:10 theBear my mum used to love chanting those to herself whenever something reminded her, apart from the brackets i'm never forgetting those sayings in that order
22:11 zhanx try that for an eclipse :D
22:13 zhanx ok enough charts bed time laters
22:13 Tom_itx mmm linux won't write to this thumbdrive
22:13 Tom_itx other one works fine
22:15 GuShh_ theBear: the hell!
22:16 GuShh_ kind of OCD right there
22:16 GuShh_ most of my clothes are on a chair, piled up.. the other pile is dirty and the rest is hanging in random locations or in random drawers
22:16 GuShh_ I kind of have a socks / underwear drawer defined, but the rest is unknown territory.
22:16 Shh_ h
22:17 theBear i'm not sure if it's an os thing, i never really been in a position to compare <grin> but recently i've noticed that just some thumbdrives and external drive enclosure/interfacey thingers simply refuse to work on certain (apparently random/unrelated in all ways) physical ports, and not just cheap poorly shielded front panel to header kinda ones, but even some on-board usb holes.... different disks seem to refuse on different interfaces, and the few
22:17 theBear that do have whatever the problem is do it 110% consistantly (maybe the thumbdrive doesn't like the bottom pair of rear ports on THIS machine, forever and always, but works in ALL the others, while the black hd enclosure refuses to work in one of the front holes, but not the other, both sidebyside with apparently 'fine for usb2 spec, visually and experience wise' IDENTICAL cables and positioning to the mobo...)
22:18 theBear if someone REALLY needed i could create/check the error now, but it's something like enumeration/won't take id error, i suspect AFTER id'ing the chip/usb client and even the model of hd, but not seeing any data or partitions
22:18 Tom_itx it sees files that are on it just fine
22:18 Tom_itx says it's write protected
22:18 theBear always in a hurry when i use those fancy modern usb holes, so i just worked around, not looked hard so far
22:19 Tom_itx wasn't aware you could write protect one
22:19 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: yeah I've got a couple of flash drives that spontaneously decided they're write protected and refuse to unlock. manufacturer said take them back to point of sale, get a refund or exchange
22:20 theBear Tom_itx, oh, that's different :) what is it like physically ? some are both sneaky and have sticky 'micro' switches, for example i got an old one you slide a little grip/panel with your thumb and the connector slides out/exposes at one end, the difference between hard write protect/allow is a very loose and non-destinct click between full out and about a mm less out, and i'm quite sure that whatever tiny switch i can feel in there handling that sensi
22:20 theBear ng seldom actually touches whatever is supposed to tell it the position
22:21 Tom_itx hmm yeah this one slides out
22:21 theBear and for reference, all the ones i've ever seen with write protect (some tell the os per disk/device/whatever, some don't even do that) it's a physical switch that connects to the brains of the thumbdrive/card not the usb/computer
22:22 theBear have a wiggle and a jiggle, see if maybe you can spot/feel any markings or something like a switch not quite contacting enough to flip over
22:22 Tom_itx or just grab another thumb drive :)
22:25 theBear pfft, i know they're getting a bit crazy cheap recently, but i don't get out much, i got a small handful of them and sdcards in my little that-kinda-stuff dept, and between handy stuff and things i don't wanna move off a couple, and boot/livecd installs etc, i've usually gotta just choose the one i use least to backup/wipe so i got something when i needit