#robotics Logs

May 10 2013

03:38 Jak_o_Shadows cool
03:40 Jak_o_Shadows This is the reprap?
03:40 RifRaf yep
03:41 RifRaf compared to the 6mm acrylic its about 10x more rigid
03:41 RifRaf basically there is 0 flex
03:41 Jak_o_Shadows That's pretty important
03:42 RifRaf yep, and by the time the rails and everything else is in will be rock solid
03:42 Jak_o_Shadows Is the reprap the one with the heated bed?
03:42 RifRaf pics soon, just took a few
03:42 RifRaf yep
03:42 RifRaf an i3
03:43 theBear hmmm, got the power bill extended 10 days... lets just hope the salvos come thru for me next week
03:44 theBear i used to like the saying "life is hard, but so am I" ... these days i just can't say the 2nd bit with conviction :(
03:54 RifRaf http://imagebin.org/257178 , http://imagebin.org/257179 , http://imagebin.org/257180
03:55 Jak_o_Shadows1 oooh, cool
03:55 Jak_o_Shadows1 what's the heated bed going to be made out of?
03:56 theBear mmm, very nice
03:56 RifRaf glass on top of a heater element i think
05:21 Jak_o_Shadows Twisted python is a freaking mess.
05:29 Hukka Sure, but people say there's a gem hidden inside
05:29 Hukka Or perhaps the mess is the gem, when viewed from within
05:30 Jak_o_Shadows Hukka: The second probably is
05:31 Jak_o_Shadows true.
05:32 Jak_o_Shadows It's just that they've never bothered to make it easy for people to find the way inside.
05:32 Hukka Indeed
05:32 Hukka I never went deep enough, for sure. But even lately Guido says that it has pretty much the only sensible async architecture
05:33 Hukka Now that he's been convinced that async is a problem worth solving
05:37 Jak_o_Shadows I'm wanting to write and read data over a serial port. I want to have a web interface. I want to be able to send data straight to it
05:38 Hukka Just for you, quick and dirty?
05:38 Hukka Or something robust for potential attackers
05:39 Jak_o_Shadows Mostly for me.
05:39 Hukka Fastest way I could figure out (with Python) would be just to use pyserial and ipython html5 notebook
05:39 Hukka Doable in 15 seconds
05:39 Jak_o_Shadows Hukka: If it were me i'd use threads.
05:40 Hukka I wouldn't do my own server for such a thing, waste of time
05:49 Jak_o_Shadows Hukka: How would you suggest doing the parts of that that arn't serial related?
05:55 Jak_o_Shadows Am I meant to be using globals? That's my main problem with twisted: How do I get information between all these different things that are running. https://github.com/phubbard/office-weather/blob/master/listener.py is what i'm looking at, and sure, that would probably work
11:37 MrCurious Hu: that git hub link to phubbard is a bud of mine. IMing him now :)
11:37 MrCurious Hukka: rather
11:39 peepsalot i want this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C41H9Han3g
11:41 peepsalot anyone know some good resource for learning about that sort of pneumatic control?
11:41 MrCurious lots of pistons?
11:42 peepsalot its not piston, its artificial muscles, i know the principle behind that sorta
11:42 MrCurious doesnt look all that accurate
11:43 MrCurious based on the screen drawing
11:43 theBear air muscles ? rue knows all about them
11:44 peepsalot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkaVsoEd6Vo
11:44 peepsalot i'm wondering more about the solenoid setups, and strategies for the motion control
11:46 peepsalot for example do i need 3 way valves for each muscle to bleed off when not energized?
11:49 MrCurious suppose it could be done with an oil pump source/sink with valves
11:50 theBear you just need 2 valves, in and out
11:51 MrCurious suppose you would need a mechanism for measuring movement for feedback
11:51 theBear oh wait, 3 way is in/out/closed ? been a long time since i done pneumatics
11:52 peepsalot theBear, i'm not even 100% sure, thats why i'm asking :-)
11:52 theBear mmmm, like any torque based (vs absolute) control, you gonna need feedback to know where it's at
11:54 peepsalot yeah. what would be a cheap option for that? maybe some pots that could be calibrated fortheir exact resistance vs position/
11:54 theBear depends what yer moving with it
11:55 theBear in most examples you can just use whatever you would have used for feedback with a servo/stepper/dc motor, just without the motor
11:55 theBear so say an 'elbow joint', a pot, or encoder of some kind will do the job
11:56 theBear anything that tells you where the target movement/position is at
11:57 peepsalot i suppose a shoulder/ball joint would be a bit more complicated
11:59 peepsalot maybe something like a universal joint to split the motion into two detectable axes
11:59 theBear well, that'd be 2 or 3 degrees of freedom, so you'd just need 2 or 3 sensors to match, and same for the 'muscles'/whatever drives it, any one would be able to move it in x(/y/z?) directions, you just gotta interpolate between your feedback and your drive and your known 'x drive = y movement' for control... and if yer into slightly complex math it doesn't really matter if any given 'drive' control moves across several axis, so long as you 'know' that
12:00 theBear for a 'shoulder joint' that can't rotate, i'd be thinking a lot like a joystick mechanism, something that takes a x-y lever movement and converts it to single x and y coordinates
12:02 theBear hmmm, a quick check suggests my shoulder can rotate, tho that's not even impossible, go for the x-y joystick style (probably reverse side of the pivot so you can still use a balljoint,) and then some kind of index marked around the 'arm' that you can read with a little optical sensor
12:02 peepsalot oh also what would be the most cost effective fittings and lines to run to the muscles and valves
12:02 GargantuaSauce 'gimbal' is the term you're looking for
12:03 theBear heh, no idea, and size/scale will make a lot of difference to the answer for that, but rue has actually experimented with this stuff, ask him
12:03 peepsalot rue_house, rue_shop2 hello
12:04 theBear also it's trickier the smaller you get, without complex pump systems you basically need a 'compressor' on board to power them all... for really small stuff electronic muscles make more sense, but they use a lot of energy
12:04 theBear by which i mean not real efficient
12:05 peepsalot yeah this would be hooked up to a large external compressor, not concerned with making it ultra mobile
12:05 theBear hmmm, large external compressor suggests maybe 100-150psi, which suggests crazy expensive solenoids.... i suppose you can use a regulator, but then you gotta find smaller solenoids
12:05 peepsalot human sized
12:06 theBear anyway, i gotta lie down for a while, escape the misery ... have fun now
12:08 peepsalot bunch of these maybe? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pneumatic-Air-Solenoid-Valve-DC12V-With-4mm-Fittings-3-Port-2-Position-NC-/400483582467?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3eae8203
12:08 peepsalot would need 2 per muscle i suppose
12:23 ckkitten tucks theBear i
12:29 MrCurious why is it taking so long for my brain to "get" prolog
12:33 hackkitten because prolog isn't meant to be understood by human beings
12:47 theBear you'd want 3 port 3 position or 2 * 2port 2 position
12:48 theBear i have hazy memories of a time when i knew what a prolog was
12:49 MrCurious i got it answering questions
12:51 theBear maybe i should take a sleeping pill or two.... course then i get those crazy dreams
12:51 theBear what's that one that makes you do psychotic sleepwalking ? i can't even remember if it's sposed to be a sleep pill or a anti smoking one
12:53 theBear wildmage ! that was his name !
12:54 theBear dude from round these parts that was making those snake robots for nasa
12:55 MrCurious theBear: take a sleeping pill, and slap on a nicotine patch (21mg) then you will have insane full color hyper-dreams
12:55 theBear nicotine patches are for quitters ! i aint no quitter
12:55 MrCurious we are talking the kind of dreams where the lights go off, a demon grabs your head and lifts you by your ears and growls welcome to hell
12:56 MrCurious i quit smoking 2 years ago
12:56 GuShH I knew MrCurious was a junkie.
12:56 theBear i get that everytime i close my eyes
12:56 MrCurious but the patch dreams were over the top
12:56 MrCurious best quit method is patch + xanax (3 x daily)
12:57 MrCurious downside, this method breaks your danger sense, and you will require someone to monitor you dont do stupid things
12:57 theBear pfft ! benzo withdrawl is 10 times worse than nicotine
12:57 GuShH How smart of you, now you are addicted to Xanax and patches.
12:57 MrCurious like attempt to chat with management 5 levels up from you
12:57 GuShH Sheep
12:57 MrCurious pfft. your off that kit after 2 months
12:57 theBear and that doesn't do anything to my commonsense, takes more than a few xanax to screw me up
12:57 GuShH And onto cocaine?
12:58 theBear actually, i kinda wish i could find something that would screw with my head like normal people get from something as simple as cold medicine or liquor
12:58 theBear antidepressants can do it, but they also make me VERY dangerous to the general public, i shouldn't take those
12:58 MrCurious theBear: sleep deprivation will induce halucinations within 2 or 3 days, i forget which
12:59 theBear MrCurious, normal people maybe, last couple years i'm lucky to sleep once every 3 days
13:00 MrCurious up the dossage to 4 or 5
13:00 MrCurious tolerance may appear
13:00 theBear and the first of those 2 years i was on clonazepam 24/7, xanax's serious big brother
13:00 theBear takes 6 days before i even get corner of the eye hallucinations
13:00 theBear but i aint normal
13:02 theBear i'm better, faster, stronger.. all apart from the back and brain problems
13:02 theBear and yeah, i know most people never been awake for 6 days, but i aint normal
13:08 MrCurious well ok then
13:08 Hukka MrCurious: Well, it wasn't me looking at it
13:08 theBear darned tootin'
13:09 MrCurious no worries
13:09 theBear hmmm, i'm tempted to put the pillow at the wrong end of my bed tonight... is that crazy ?
13:09 theBear sidenote: my head would be at the wrong end too
13:10 theBear i remember the last time i did that, i had my reasons... memories... sigh
13:15 theBear and if yer imagination is running away with you, yer going totally the wrong way on that last comment
13:17 theBear hmmm, i don't think it was a comment, statement maybe
13:19 MrCurious woo hoo, (100) 3mmx3mmx3mm rare earth magnets arrived
13:19 MrCurious will be adding 2 ea per gear motor in my 2 OWI arms this weekend
13:20 MrCurious hot glue and hall effect sensors
13:20 theBear arrange them in some kinda orb with a trigger and you can have a rare earth h-bomb !
13:20 theBear silicone is better than hotglue for that kinda thing
13:21 MrCurious i like hot glue. its the napalm of the adhesive world dontchaknow
13:21 theBear i wonder... something along those lines (magnets moving fast in a specific configuration) might be able to make an efficient emp maybe
13:22 theBear oh i know it well, i also know years of dealing with tiny rareearth magnets mounted on discs with hall sensors for a living :)
14:47 ckkitten huggles theBea
14:47 theBear oh kitty :)
14:52 MrCurious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGSVYgcy24Q
14:53 theBear hehe nice
14:54 theBear hmm, whaddya call that building with the lincoln memorial ?
14:55 MrCurious man do i ever hate nano
14:55 theBear crazy foo' !
14:55 MrCurious when i am in less and press v, it should open a damn vi, not nano...
14:56 MrCurious that should be N
14:56 theBear you can press v in less ? damn !
14:56 theBear it probly opens your default EDITOR variable
14:56 MrCurious yep
14:56 MrCurious not sure why linux is dumbed down to nano
14:57 theBear it's not 'linux', it's the default bash/shell env on your given distro
14:57 theBear and nano kicks the shit out of stupid vi
14:57 MrCurious removing nano solves the problem, and lets me properly express my weird beard
14:57 theBear if yer editing flat text files, they should look like flat text files, dammit
14:58 theBear maybe putting export EDITOR="vi" in your ~/.bashrc woudl do the same
14:58 theBear and i aint shaved since june last year, your weird beard got nothing on my furry ass head
15:04 MrCurious seems i am in a die antwoord mood this morning
15:05 theBear hmm, i used to know what that meant
15:10 peepsalot theBear, i think its called "the lincoln memorial building"
15:10 peepsalot :-P
15:10 MrCurious the answer
15:10 theBear i just noticed the colums out the front in that video clip
15:10 theBear guess it's a courthouse
15:12 RifRaf yay its the weekend
15:12 theBear heh, weekends don't mean quite so much when yer a pensioner
15:13 peepsalot or when you're a bear
15:13 RifRaf they mean lots when you been slaving away though, hrm what to do, a cleanup looks like a good start so i can find desk
16:03 GuShH RifRaf: clean up, booze up, hack up
16:03 GuShH that's tshirt material right there.
16:12 RifRaf yep, i like cleaning, then hacking for the rest of weekend slowly getting drunk, by sunday arvo am pretty gone but alot is normally done
16:14 RifRaf the reprap is on hold for a little bit for now till parts arrive
16:14 RifRaf the floor is littered with frames and partsfor it though
16:15 GargantuaSauce glad to hear you're getting into that world
16:15 GargantuaSauce prepare for wasting inordinate amounts of time getting it all aligned and calibrated though
16:16 MrCurious how do you keep the (N - 1) projects on hold from cluttering up the work space of the (1) project? tupperwear bins?
16:16 RifRaf heh when that time comes i'll go visit triffid
16:17 RifRaf have lots of storage compartments, and the lounge room table is about 30 cm high in parts and cables permanently
16:33 MrCurious i use big tupperwear bins
17:49 MrCurious bostob boston boston, Cleveland, Cleveland, Boston.
17:50 MrCurious glad i live in a world where only ONE news story can happen in a given week/news cycle
18:33 Hukka Jak_o_Shadows: I would just use the ipython notepad, like I said
18:34 MrCurious Jak_o_Shadows: JUST missed your answer
18:35 MrCurious Hukka: Jak_o_Shadows: I would just use the ipython notepad, like I said
18:35 Jak_o_Shadows haha,, ok, thanks
18:36 MrCurious Jak_o_Shadows: you doing simplecv?
18:36 Jak_o_Shadows I will be, but not at the moment, this is just for remote control and data vis
18:37 MrCurious ok, i did the ipython notebook + simplecv install on my notebook and was able to run their examples including OCR
18:37 MrCurious the first rul of robot club is you dont talk about robot club
19:48 rue_house "if this catches fire could you unplug it for me?"
19:48 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/330904159084
19:48 rue_house I actually recieved it, it didn't catch fire and its been powered up like one minute
19:58 GargantuaSauce don't forget to prevent it from water and moisture
20:07 MrCurious rue_house: dont trust your family to do that... they are useless in fire situations
20:11 GuShH rue_house : series cap for the psu on that bad boy?
20:11 GuShH still, I can't believe it's under 1 buck with shipping
20:11 GuShH god damn the chinese, mofos. if we were to get those E27 fittings moulded it would cost us like 10 times as much each piece alone... not including shipping
20:11 GuShH HOW DO THEY DO IT?
20:12 GuShH should I get 10-20 children and put them to work?
20:13 rue_house duunno, it woulnd't fall apart with light force
20:13 rue_house (!)
20:13 rue_house I think its money laundering
20:14 rue_house they give people a laundering radio 2:1 for every $2 they give them $1 goes back, so they sell $2 stuff on ebay for $1
20:14 rue_house or so is the idea
20:14 rue_house that or lost chipping containers
20:14 rue_house buy a lost container and sell everything in it for $1
20:14 rue_house ea
20:15 rue_house I'm sure containers go missing all the time in china
20:15 rue_house just misplaced
20:15 rue_house or unclaimed
20:16 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/181021269483 do you think this 5V supply is smps?
20:16 rue_house 12V -> 5V
21:24 GargantuaSauce http://pastie.org/7829284
21:24 GargantuaSauce feels good man