#robotics Logs

Apr 06 2013

00:12 Rif not here at moment
00:13 Rif might grab it tomorrow
00:13 zhanx rif!
00:14 Rif yes
00:15 zhanx hi
00:16 Rif hi wats happening?
00:16 zhanx got my MIT letter!
01:27 SecretFire do careers in robotics pay well?
01:34 Jak_o_Shadows better than mcdonalds
01:55 SecretFire lol
01:56 theBear problem is finding a career in robotics... there aint a lot of companies that make robots, if ya know what i mean
01:56 jumijoze they have robots there too now?
01:58 SecretFire its more of a research field?
02:00 Jak_o_Shadows Try mechatronics
02:02 SecretFire I guess I am interested in the programming aspect of building robots
02:05 theBear you can do a lot of 'bits' of robotics for jobs... i used to fix fancy disco lights, they got all yer various servo/stepper/motor stuff, leverage, gearing, belts, various forms of feedback, open and closed loop control, digital and analog etc etc.... cnc machinery of various types has all that kinda stuff too...
02:06 Rif theBear, how ya been , have not seen ya around much for a bit
02:07 SecretFire that makes sense
02:08 theBear medium... busy visiting doctors and people mostly... i'm officially a cripple now, gonna apply for a cripple-spot-parking thing on monday
02:08 theBear got a meeting in a couple weeks with the cripple govt people.. sounds like they will send me to courses or maybe even some kinda 'college' if i want, could be cool
02:09 theBear been seeing a new dude, err, osteopath ... having a lot more good days which is nice
02:10 theBear and being an official cripple, i should JUST be able to afford rent AND food, maybe even have a few bucks to actually do SOMETHING recreational occasionally, like meet a friend for a drink, or i dunno, order a pizza
02:10 Rif hopefully you can find something to supplyment it but will be a bit of a help i guess
02:12 theBear yeah, working on it... gotta workout something i can do from home with no set hours i think... anything outside you kinda gotta be able to say "yeah, i can be there on X day(s)" but at the moment i never know if i gonna be able to walk or think thru the pain when i wake up tomorrow...
02:13 theBear do odd repairs for people i know, mobiles and laptops and things, at least gets me a few beers
02:13 Rif daylight savings ends tonight, not that you would notice
02:13 theBear gotta look into some online stuff too, i suspect some of those sites with "ask an expert online" kinda things might pay
02:13 Rif but i need to try remember tomorrow
02:14 jumijoze dayylight saving started last week here
02:14 theBear nah, haven't had it here for years, we on the wrong side of the hour geographically, made everything 45mins too late, over there it works good
02:16 theBear so how you guys been ?
02:17 Rif drugged out with tooth pain last week, so not getting much done
02:17 Rif but been trying to make balancing robots
02:17 theBear heh yeah, those tooth pills make you even dopier than i am these days :)
02:18 Rif am reading the C book a bit more as well, and also thinking arduino is not as bad as some make out
02:18 theBear oh yeah, i saw some talk of that a few days back... been thinking i might FINALLY get around to it myself... really just need a couple suitable motors to get started
02:18 Rif but that could be the drugs :)
02:18 theBear ahh, the big C book by umm, someone or other ? it's a good one
02:19 Rif this is just the dummies book, i chop and change, but its starting to make more sence
02:19 theBear heh, in a lot of ways arduino isn't bad, most people in my camp just feel that the whole marketing approach and the way they 'baby' people and encourage not learning ANY 'real programming skills' is the problem
02:20 theBear ahh, hmm, i see if i can find a copy/name of the big book, it's been my only reference for years, it's highly recommended by many
02:20 Jak_o_Shadows Problem is if you don't buy into the hype, you don't like the hype
02:20 Rif well its teaching me more programming skills
02:21 Rif as i am not just compiling a sketch and blinking leds with someone elses code, am blending several libraries by different people with my code, so still a challenge
02:22 Rif but these 20A pwm drivers are responding well to the sensor input, would add an accel if i was a bit more motivated
02:22 theBear yeah, that's good, but you gotta admit, it's far from what the arduino people recommend
02:23 Jak_o_Shadows Right api reference: Lets use some magic javascript rubbish on the list of functions, rather than normal hyperlinks
02:24 Jak_o_Shadows can't open stuff in a new tab. Fun.
02:29 theBear hmmm, can't find the book now... pretty sure it's either http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/General/c_book/c_book/ or more likely http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language
02:30 Rif theBear, yes i have the second one as well
02:31 theBear very good, if i find my local copy and it's not that, i let yer know :)
02:31 Rif np
06:04 Jak_o_Shadows I may sort have this computer vision working.
08:33 theBear oh, rif gone now :( i found my copy, it was the same, 2nd edition c programming by oreilly
08:34 Tom_itx good book
08:35 Tom_itx mine is K&R 2nd though
08:36 theBear err, same book pretty sure, just that i've always called it by publisher, not author :)
08:39 Tom_itx mine is prenice hall
08:40 Tom_itx likely the same though
08:40 theBear interesting... hmmm, not really worth messing around webland to work it out right now, i got equal sized fish already frying :)
08:42 theBear just noticed something weird... built in cardreader on the netbook (looks like a usb 'blah multi flash reader') will only autodetect/mount cards in the gui (xfce/thunar/volman) if they have no partition table, just a single partition/fs over the whole disk...
10:48 esp_mantis Hello! I am looking for a tiny uvc compliant usb camera module. VGA is ok. Can anyone suggest reliable sources (like online stores) where it would be available for consumers?
11:01 rue_house what are laptop cameras?
11:02 Tom_itx i got a logitec one
11:02 Tom_itx works ok
11:06 chris_99 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORIZED-BIKE-NITROUS-OXIDE-BOOST-BOTTLE-NOS-KIT-FOR-MOTORIZED-BICYCLE-/330890093092?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0a962224 does anyone know what you'd call a type of bottle like in there, that has both an inlet on one side and outlet on the other
11:07 chris_99 (i'm looking at something like that to store n2o for a rocket)
11:24 rue_house accumulator?
11:29 chris_99 thanks a lot rue_house!
12:49 NightRavenXS guys, i need some advice
12:49 NightRavenXS If I want to design a UAV controlled from PC
12:50 NightRavenXS and the UAV must send video to the PC
12:50 NightRavenXS what processor/microcontroller would you recommend?
12:51 zap0 a fast one
12:52 ghtRavenXS can't handle the thoroughness of this an
12:52 NightRavenXS any EXACT ideas?
12:52 zap0 why do you want to process the video signal before sending it?
12:53 zap0 got any EXACT requirements.
12:53 NightRavenXS wait zap0
12:53 NightRavenXS your question was food for thought
12:53 NightRavenXS dont think bad of me, but i didnt think that i can process the video locally
12:53 NightRavenXS and just sending it would require much less power?
12:55 chris_99 you should probably know what res. camera you're going to use etc. first
12:56 NightRavenXS chris_99, probably 640x480
12:57 chris_99 what camera are you going to use?
12:57 chris_99 you can get analogue output , digital output
12:58 NightRavenXS chris_99, what would you recommend?
12:58 chris_99 what do you mean by send video to the PC too
12:59 chris_99 wirelessly?
13:07 NightRavenXS yes
13:07 chris_99 you could just buy a wireless camera
13:08 NightRavenXS hmm
13:58 GargantuaSauce NightRavenXS: i plan to approach the very same problem with Allwinner SoCs
13:58 GargantuaSauce they have hardware video encoding that supposedly works in linux and android using proprietary drivers
13:59 NightRavenXS GargantuaSauce, UAV with video?
13:59 GargantuaSauce check out the cubieboard, it has an allwinner A10 on it
13:59 ghtRavenXS is checking
13:59 NightRavenXS oh, ARM
14:01 NightRavenXS GargantuaSauce, ok, now can't video streaming be done with anything smaller?
14:01 NightRavenXS e.g. PIC32
14:01 GargantuaSauce do the napkin math
14:01 GargantuaSauce consider the bitrates involved with transmitting uncompressed video
14:02 NightRavenXS hmm
14:02 NightRavenXS ok, If I were to choose a really powerful ARM
14:02 NightRavenXS I would go with TI's 5.6 GHz Cortex-As
14:02 NightRavenXS but there is no need for that much, right?
14:03 GargantuaSauce it all depends on what you want to do
14:04 NightRavenXS GargantuaSauce, capture low quality video
14:04 NightRavenXS stream to PC over RF
14:04 NightRavenXS and at the same time receive RF input, something must control the plane after all
14:04 GargantuaSauce then unless you really want to use software video encoding you don't need that much grunt, just a hardware encoding accelerator
14:09 GargantuaSauce what do you plan to use for radio communication
14:10 NightRavenXS still thining about that
14:10 NightRavenXS Bluetooth is out
14:10 NightRavenXS WiFi is probably out too
14:10 NightRavenXS well although
14:10 NightRavenXS if I use ARM only
14:10 NightRavenXS then why not WiFi
14:10 NightRavenXS initially i was planning to use PIC32
14:11 NightRavenXS that's why I didn't consider WiFi
14:11 Hukka Why not just use the cameras that are made for rc planes?
14:11 Hukka I think they are analog 5GHz
14:12 Hukka And normal RC esc
14:12 NightRavenXS hmm
14:12 GargantuaSauce yeah if all you want is a video feed that would be a more viable option
14:12 GargantuaSauce because the whole system can be made from commodity hardware
14:12 Hukka This is really more about RC than robots, so the parts are on that side of the fence
14:14 Hukka I don't see any reason to think about what mcu or cpu to use
14:15 Hukka It's very much irrelevant, since this doesn't require any custom software at all
14:15 NightRavenXS hmm
14:16 NightRavenXS ok, seems like I will have to build a UAV w/o video first
14:17 GargantuaSauce that's definitely the first step in either case
14:17 NightRavenXS well, ok
14:17 NightRavenXS thanks for your time
14:18 GargantuaSauce yeah no problem, always happy to prattle on about it
14:18 GargantuaSauce i personally am going for digital video because i want onboard computer vision
14:18 Hukka That's completely different story, of course
14:19 NightRavenXS hmm there is a local robotics competition here in Armenia
14:19 NightRavenXS and someone made a robot (not UAV) which had vision
14:19 NightRavenXS the objective was to discern objects
14:19 NightRavenXS the robot must find tennis balls, put them in their place and then do the same with coke cans
14:20 NightRavenXS and someone used Blackfin
14:20 NightRavenXS still can't understand how they did it
14:20 GeDaMo Depends how complex a scene it had to deal with
14:21 NightRavenXS hmm the arena is not that complex
14:21 NightRavenXS but Blackfin
14:21 NightRavenXS has almost zero documentation
14:21 GeDaMo The Wiki page for it claims it can do real-time video encoding
14:21 NightRavenXS aha
14:21 NightRavenXS but how to program it
14:21 NightRavenXS no one knows
14:22 GargantuaSauce yeah it looks like it has a weird-ass architecture
14:22 GargantuaSauce that guy is clearly a wizard
14:22 GeDaMo I just downloaded a programmer's reference for it
14:22 GeDaMo And it appears you can run Linux on it
14:23 ghtRavenXS is a fan of baremetal program
14:25 GeDaMo As all sane people are :P
14:26 GargantuaSauce the sanity of that proposition depends on the architecture if you ask me
14:26 GargantuaSauce arm, avr, mips? yes
14:26 GargantuaSauce x86 ohhhh god no
14:26 Hukka I assume you are all ircing via your own client coded on bare metal?
14:27 GeDaMo :D
14:28 GargantuaSauce i am in windows at the moment ;_;
14:31 NightRavenXS Hukka, <GargantuaSauce> x86 ohhhh god no
14:31 NightRavenXS :D
14:34 RifRaf blackfin is supported by webbotlibs
14:35 NightRavenXS so?
14:35 NightRavenXS does it make it any easier to program Blackfin
14:35 NightRavenXS GargantuaSauce, I think you're really right about the wizard thing
14:35 RifRaf might assist with your baremetal program, at least get it going
14:35 NightRavenXS nah i wont use Blackfin
17:35 RifRaf gonna try get these big motor drivers going again, just washed all the cobwebs and dirt off them
23:14 SecretFire have you guys heard of roboy?
23:59 yahweh See Rue_mohr
23:59 yahweh I'm here
23:59 yahweh been here all day