#robotics Logs
Mar 03 2013
#robotics Calendar
00:06 tobbor This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2013-03-03.html
00:06 RifRaf !thislog
00:06 tobbor This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2013-03-03.html
00:06 RifRaf hi
00:06 tobbor RifRaf! like, totally tell us about the project!
00:06 RifRaf tobber wake up!!
00:06 RifRaf tobbor
00:14 RifRaf someone rebooted the internet
00:15 GargantuaSauce nah someone's attacking freenode
00:15 RifRaf !thislog
00:15 tobbor This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2013-03-03.html
00:15 RifRaf really?
00:26 GuShH_Lap rebooted the internet? pfahahaha
00:26 GuShH_Lap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg
00:27 GuShH_Lap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTBsm0LzSP0
00:56 GargantuaSauce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skzwuvYxZRw
01:12 GuShH_Lap GargantuaSauce: pretending much?
01:13 GargantuaSauce what
01:14 GuShH_Lap model rockets.
01:20 GuShH_Lap these guys seem to know how to get up, but not down.
01:20 GuShH_Lap fing nerds.
01:48 Lola8088 !thislog
01:48 tobbor This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2013-03-03.html
01:49 Lola8088 http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2005-03-03.html
02:18 theBear gotta get up to get down
07:38 ocei3ko Parts came today :D, check out this list
07:38 ocei3ko http://pastebin.com/L0qS7jBh
07:39 ocei3ko Not bad for the price paid
07:41 Hukka Starting out electronics?
07:43 GuShH_Lap n00bkit
07:43 GuShH_Lap theBear: I'm watching bikini bandits... exactly wtf am I watching though?
07:43 GuShH_Lap this is the most random bizarre "movie" I've seen
07:44 ocei3ko yeah
07:59 Hukka ocei3ko: Any project plans yet?
08:00 ocei3ko not yey
08:00 ocei3ko yet
09:27 Tom_itx ocei3ko, you don't get parts without a plan
09:28 ocei3ko The plan is to learn about electronics. Will need to buy some avrs
09:28 ocei3ko Bought these parts because of the good deal
09:30 ocei3ko Have a few ideas to make, but far off from my current knowledge
09:32 ocei3ko Not sure whether I should be getting an ardino uno or nano
09:32 Tom_itx mega
09:32 ocei3ko Both the same apparently, but maybe uno will be easier to use
09:32 ocei3ko mega is overkill for what i need
09:34 xorly then nano i good for breadboard on the other hand can't use shields, invert it for uno
09:35 Tom_itx shields. who need shields?
09:35 ocei3ko Nano seems harder to attach wires to for prototyping
09:35 xorly who needs arduino?
09:36 ocei3ko Which avrs should I get?
09:36 Tom_itx i got a mega 2560 because it was cheaper than i could build one for but i can certainly overwrite the arduino stuff
09:36 xorly nano is mentioned to be pushed into breadboard http://www.inmotion.pt/store/images/ARDU-0007-b.jpg
09:36 Tom_itx ocei3ko, 328
09:36 Tom_itx depends what you want to do
09:37 ocei3ko fml would need to have a programmer too
09:38 Tom_itx i have plenty of those
09:38 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
09:39 ocei3ko How much?
09:39 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/commerce/commerce_index.php
09:41 ocei3ko http://paeae.com/prototyping/programmers/usbtinyisp-programmer.html
09:42 ocei3ko That the same?
09:42 Tom_itx no
09:42 xorly I use avrisp programmer without problems
09:42 Tom_itx it works
09:43 Tom_itx mine does quite a bit more
09:43 Tom_itx avrisp is bitbanged usb
09:43 Tom_itx which is slower
09:43 Tom_itx for oen
09:43 Tom_itx one
09:43 Tom_itx mine is hardware usb
09:43 Tom_itx and does ISP, PDI and TPI protocols
09:43 Tom_itx for all the 8bit family
09:44 Tom_itx runs down to 1.75v and has a fuse recovery clock
09:44 xorly yep, avrisp is lowcost, I know, that recovery clock signal is good feature
09:44 Tom_itx yup
09:45 xorly it is same like avr chip choice, you must know what features do you require
09:46 ocei3ko Hmm
09:47 ocei3ko I could buy your one, tom
09:47 ocei3ko But not sure if need just yet
09:47 Tom_itx the recovery clock is a near must for a noob
09:47 Tom_itx i think over half of them brick an avr starting otu
09:47 Tom_itx out*
09:47 Zephman Hey.
09:47 Tom_itx straw
09:48 Tom_itx ocei3ko, if you do, you won't need another
09:48 ocei3ko How do you handle customer privacy?
09:48 Tom_itx i keep it private
09:48 Tom_itx :)
09:49 Tom_itx nobody has asked me that yet
09:50 ocei3ko I suppose it'd be the same as ebay
09:50 Tom_itx no, i don't sell your name
09:50 Tom_itx or send you pesky emails
09:50 Tom_itx you will get a confirmation email and that's it
09:50 ocei3ko I mean with regards to random people having address details/etc
09:51 Tom_itx but you already know me :)
09:52 Tom_itx i assure you it goes nowhere
09:53 Zephman Urm.. How do I start learning Robotics?
09:53 Tom_itx just start
09:54 GuShH_Lap Zephman: by making a sentient robot
09:54 GuShH_Lap it's easy.
09:55 Tom_itx ocei3ko, what country are you in?
09:55 GuShH_Lap Zephman: what exactly are you interested on?
09:55 Hukka ocei3ko: I got Tom's box too ;)
09:56 ocei3ko Finland
09:56 home What's Robotics?
09:56 Zephman I was thinking of making autonomous robots with wheels then after I learn how to do a few of them, create a biped robot.
09:56 home lol
09:56 home I don't want to make robots
09:56 ocei3ko Zephman, Read some books first, learn about electricity/electronics
09:56 home just program them
09:56 home making is a bitch
09:57 Zephman ocei3ko, I have this Make:Electronics book that I'm gonna learn from, just need some more components.
09:57 ocei3ko I have it too
09:57 home hmm, I barely read any books...
09:57 ocei3ko I have a few GB of 'lectronics books
09:57 Hukka Zephman: Maybe get a simple kit first, depending how much you can spend
09:57 ocei3ko If you need some I'll send over
09:57 home find them useless
09:57 Tom_itx http://openbookproject.net/electricCircuits/
09:57 ocei3ko Zephman, Hold on
09:58 home if I need to understand a certain theory or something, I just look it up
09:58 Zephman Hukka: I've spent some money on components and kits.
09:58 Zephman ocei3ko, Okay.
09:58 ocei3ko Zephman, I bought this, turned up today http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electronic-Components-Starter-Kit-huge-633-piece-kit-/190712040817?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item2c6752cd71#shId
09:58 Hukka Zephman: Well, if you have the kits, then just pick a problem and solve it
09:59 Tom_itx ocei3ko, i've sent a few to Finland
09:59 Hukka Like mine
09:59 ocei3ko Hukka, You're in Finland?
09:59 Hukka ocei3ko: Depending on your location you could also hang out at a hackerspace
09:59 ocei3ko oic
09:59 Hukka ocei3ko: Yeah, my listed real name is... well... real
10:00 ocei3ko Tom_itx, Apart from the programmer and the kit above, what else do I need?
10:00 ocei3ko AVRs obviously
10:00 Hukka ocei3ko: You need a goal
10:01 Tom_itx maybe some crystals and hookup wire
10:01 Tom_itx and that
10:01 Tom_itx then get what you need from there
10:01 ocei3ko I have one. Want to get to god-tier and make a sentinent spider.
10:01 Tom_itx don't just buy a bunch of crap you won't use
10:01 Zephman ocei3ko, I have LEDs, breadboard, resistor, arduion, 9v batter, battery holders and lots more thigns.
10:01 Tom_itx test equipment
10:01 Tom_itx like a volt / ohm meter etc
10:02 ocei3ko Tom_itx, I will use the stuff, I am legitimately interested in electronics
10:02 Tom_itx the further along you get the more test stuff you will acquire
10:02 ocei3ko I have a multimeter
10:02 Tom_itx multimeter, scope, logic analizer,....
10:02 Tom_itx good soldering iron
10:02 Zephman I have a multimeter, just got a cheap one from Maplin.
10:03 Tom_itx you don't need all that at once
10:03 Zephman So what then, should I just work through the make:electronics book. You know any good books related to Robotics?
10:03 ocei3ko The Art of Electronics
10:04 Tom_itx books are for book hounds
10:04 Tom_itx you need help, ask here
10:04 ocei3ko Need to learn basics first
10:04 Tom_itx so?
10:04 ocei3ko So read a book on basics
10:04 Zephman You sure this The Art of Electronics book is good for beginners? seems advanced.
10:04 Tom_itx rue_house teaches a class to kids that know nothing
10:04 ocei3ko Zephman, Its good
10:05 Tom_itx read that link i posted
10:05 ocei3ko You recommend that?
10:05 Zephman http://openbookproject.net/electricCircuits/ ?
10:05 Hukka I teach kids who know quite a lot
10:05 Hukka Zephman: Really, you need a goal, then you start searching for info on how to get there
10:06 Hukka "reading around" doesn't work that well
10:06 Hukka Hell, our school system proves it
10:06 Zephman My ultimate goal is to make a biped robot.
10:06 ocei3ko I want a biped
10:06 Zephman My first goal is to make a robot with wheels.
10:06 Hukka Zephman: On how low level of "make" are we talking about here?
10:06 ocei3ko and a helicopter that drops napalm
10:06 Tom_itx we don't promote terrorism
10:07 Hukka Zephman: Also, your goal has to be a problem
10:07 ocei3ko That was a joke
10:07 Zephman Hukka, I don't understand?
10:07 Hukka A doll fits the goal of having a biped
10:07 Hukka But it doesn't do anything
10:07 Tom_itx sure it does
10:07 Hukka Zephman: I mean do you want to make your own frame, your own gears?
10:08 Hukka There's a lot of different things that would count as making a biped. Some just buy a kit, assemble it and the programming is the making
10:08 ocei3ko Hukka, Where in finland are you?
10:08 Hukka ocei3ko: Espoo
10:08 Zephman Hukka: I don't know yet :(, I thought of getting a kit but doing it all myself seems more rewarding. I don't want to make the biped immediately, I want to gain lots of knowledge first.
10:08 ocei3ko Ah ok
10:09 Hukka Zephman: There are many ways to start learning, not just starting from semiconductors
10:09 Tom_itx http://www.huv.com/blog/
10:10 Hukka If you have ideas and goals for simpler robots, that's cool. If not, getting a biped kit might be better
10:10 Tom_itx http://www.huv.com/mech/MicroRaptor-Mech-01.jpg
10:10 Hukka Then you can get it to walk around etc, and getting ideas on how it should be improved
10:10 Hukka I'm getting my first humanoid soonish
10:10 Hukka Hopefully within two weeks
10:11 Zephman Hukka: That's what I will be doing. I got to save up money first.
10:11 Hukka My goal is to make it compete in all Robocup Jr courses against my students with rovers ;)
10:12 Zephman Hukka: How much did it cost?
10:12 Hukka 750€ with shipping
10:12 Zephman not bad.
10:21 ocei3ko What OSes are used around here?
10:23 xorly Archlinux
10:24 ocei3ko dEBIAN
10:24 ocei3ko Debian*
10:26 Hukka Ubuntu/Freebsd/OSX
10:29 Hukka ocei3ko: Didn't sound like my location was interesting for you
10:30 Hukka Where're you then?
10:30 ocei3ko Helsinki
10:30 joga me too :)
10:30 Hukka It's not that far... :)
10:30 Hukka joga: Oh, hi
10:30 joga oi
10:31 ocei3ko What languages do you use?
10:32 joga whatever's convenient
10:32 ocei3ko Right, I mean *know
10:32 Hukka What counts as knowing...
10:32 Hukka I could say only Python, barely
10:32 ocei3ko Use regularly
10:32 joga if hello world counts, quite a few
10:32 joga heh
10:34 joga I'm by no means an expert programmer or even a decent one but for robot stuff I've used C/Java/Common Lisp, can't say I'm very good with any of them, CL was probably the most fun
10:34 Hukka And one of the rare languages that I miss when doing Python
10:35 joga I sort of feel like trying out FORTH for something small
10:35 ocei3ko Stick to one and become god-tier
10:35 Hukka ocei3ko: Nah
10:35 Hukka I haven't learned any neew languages in years
10:35 ocei3ko C/Perl/Python is all I need for now
10:35 Hukka So I decided this year will be different. I started with ML
10:36 Hukka I'll see how far I'll get. But at least Haskell, Erlang and Prolog are on the list
10:36 Hukka I almost started with C++ too, but backed off
10:36 joga all of those are pretty nice, erlang I've never really coded but have a book ready if I ever want to try heh
10:38 joga haskell is something I don't find intuitive but I suck at mathy stuff so it might be part of the reason, prolog on the other hand seemed quite nice but apart from solving certain types of puzzles I haven't really found a use for it
10:43 ocei3ko Tom_itx, How do you use that programmer?
10:43 Hukka ocei3ko: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_User_manual_index.php
10:44 Tom_itx plug it in and go
10:44 Tom_itx use it with studio or avrdude
10:45 ocei3ko oic
10:45 ocei3ko Couldnt see where the chip goes
10:46 Tom_itx you wire it to the chip
10:46 Tom_itx via ISP plug
10:46 ocei3ko ah
10:46 Tom_itx or use a breadboard adapter
10:46 ocei3ko so would also need an isp wire
10:46 Tom_itx mention it and i'll toss in an adapter for you
10:47 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/new_kits/USBTinyMkII_adapter_kit_desc.jpg
10:47 ocei3ko Got any spare AVRs?
10:47 Tom_itx the breadboard adapter on the right
10:47 Zephman so urm, other than arduino, what are other popular microcontrollers?
10:48 Tom_itx ocei3ko, naw: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/USB_chips.jpg
10:48 Hukka Zephman: Well, it's perhaps a bit hard to say what counts as popular
10:48 ocei3ko nomygod.
10:48 Hukka Zephman: But some pics, stamps, propellers and launchpads definately have a following
10:48 Hukka Zephman: And of course all sorts of Cortexes, these days
10:49 Hukka For heavier stuff there's mbed, beagles etc. Depends what you count as a micro
10:50 ocei3ko Tom_itx, Are the ones with the covers still out of stock?
10:50 Tom_itx yes
10:50 Hukka Oh? I got one of the last ones then
10:53 Tom_itx i'll have more but it may be a while
10:59 ocei3ko What software is good for circuit design/emulation?
10:59 ocei3ko Linux only
11:09 Hukka Kicad is workable on linux
11:09 Hukka Otherwise it seams Eagle is the only game in town
11:19 ocei3ko hmm
11:19 ocei3ko anyone used geda?
12:29 Hukka Never heard of it
12:31 Tom_itx zlog
12:31 Tom_itx linux users like it
23:29 rue_house Rif, we didn't do any programming this weekend!
23:32 theBear but i fixed a bike !
23:32 rue_house the one in the old back shed?
23:32 rue_house when I was over?
23:33 theBear lol, nah, i think that rusted away, even the aluminium parts :) pushbike, pretty similar condition tho
23:33 rue_house hahaha
23:33 rue_house ok
23:33 rue_house so now you need a motor from a scooter for it
23:36 theBear heh, that'd be way too fat and heavy, wonder what they put in those big cast monolith monsters now you mention it... these days about $150 will get you a generic 50cc 2stroke kit designed for a pushbike, big fat chain, clutch, throttle grip, coil, stupid clamp-to-spokes drive gear for back wheel etc etc... thing is you rebuild it with real gaskets, file off the casting marks, few little things like that, and it's suddenly exactly like a 4 or 600 doll
23:36 theBear ar fancy pushbike engine... there's only one factory that makes them, a ton of companies rebadge 'em for various prices, some do more than others
23:37 theBear not sure if it gonna be mine or temporary housemates, but i like working on bikes, reminds me of better times :)
23:37 theBear and i like being able to say i'm a wheelsmith too
23:37 Jak_o_Shadows Hub motors are nice.
23:38 theBear i gotta admit, the one that i was given a lift on was surprisingly good, medium inclines it needed help, but 2 people on a slight incline or flat and it just went along silently and fastly
23:39 theBear but there's something kinda cool about having a shitty 2stroke between yer legs... had an idea for a few years to get the smallest frame i can fit one in, bmx i expect, make some silly long forks and bars and a raised back seat, have a ridiculous mini-chopper to ride around :)
23:39 theBear lemme find a pic of something while we at it
23:42 theBear www.imgur.com/L5D7Vms is how i get around when i go on holidays :)
23:43 theBear 80cc version, custom muffler and pipes, fancy carb and airfilter, suicide shifter for 3 speed hub, ridiculously unsafe backwards headstem, and yes, tho are nitro bottles :)
23:43 rue_house dude, no, electric
23:43 theBear dude, look at that thing !
23:44 theBear nitro pushbike with suicide shift ! it doesn't get more ridiculous and awesome !
23:45 e_house shakes
23:45 theBear that's exactly the kind of response i ride it to achieve !
23:46 theBear and cos of the way the motor is coupled, you gotta 'kick' start it with the pedals and somehow manage to hold on, can't bump it like a regular setup :)
23:46 theBear it's possibly the most impractical transport method ever devised !