#robotics Logs

Feb 09 2013

00:40 rue_shop2 drop a bloated library and do things directly with the obchip hardware instead of bitbanged by software just so you can use any pin you want?
00:40 rue_shop2 :)
00:40 rue_shop2 sorry rif
00:40 rue_shop2 what all you doin ?
00:41 rue_shop2 RifRaf, whats the code doing right now?
00:42 RifRaf its the gaits sir
00:42 RifRaf all sorts of stuff rue, just made gaits till it went too 100% full and then deleted one
00:42 rue_shop2 how many points to you have in how many aniations?
00:43 RifRaf 7 animations, many points, file is 28k
00:44 RifRaf hooked buttons up this arvo to rue
00:44 RifRaf have 3
00:44 rue_shop2 "many" is more or less than 12
00:44 RifRaf and a reset
00:44 rue_shop2 cool stuff
00:44 RifRaf well can paste file if you'd like to see
00:46 rue_shop2 no, just wondering about how many poits were talking, i wan tot know if my code could do better
00:47 rue_shop2 thats not much
00:47 RifRaf i was looking at out code for tiptoes today
00:47 RifRaf well yours
00:47 RifRaf but i did do some
00:48 rue_shop2 it might be possable to offload some of it to eeprom if you ahve to
00:48 RifRaf just like today, i made if statements and variables rue, and they work
00:48 rue_shop2 :)
00:48 rue_shop2 you will understand all the other code before you know it
00:48 RifRaf this is a mega168, will use a nano 328p and then have lots of room left i reckon
00:48 rue_shop2 I'm sorry I'm not ligning up to teach ya myself
00:49 rue_shop2 you could also just hook up an external eeprom chip, serial, 512k
00:49 RifRaf well i can read, but was skimming the manual a bit today, its way full on, dunno how i'll go after page 50 or so
00:49 RifRaf ok so you could store 512k of gaits in it for example?
00:50 RifRaf i did that once
00:50 RifRaf but never used it
00:50 rue_shop2 if you can get the code to pull from eeprom
00:50 RifRaf yeah it would be there i reckon
00:50 RifRaf but will stick to 16k for now
00:52 RifRaf rue arm draws about .2A at rest position, and upto 2A if working crazy, average about .7A when moving
00:52 RifRaf had to replace several servos
00:54 rue_shop2 the micro servos?
00:54 RifRaf yep and a few big ones, they were drawing too much power
00:54 RifRaf the micro ones break when the arm does crazy stuff in testing
00:55 RifRaf like slams onto the table when i flash it
00:55 rue_shop2 yea..
00:55 rue_shop2 might want to cut the pwoer when flashing
00:55 rue_shop2 glad your board isn't blowing up tho
00:55 RifRaf is the same board that used to blow up
00:55 RifRaf still have no caps on the reg
00:56 rue_shop2 still have that modified atx supply?
00:56 RifRaf yep, is on charging batteries now
00:56 RifRaf as a 12v input for the charger
00:56 rue_shop2 cool
00:57 RifRaf don't think its the same one from when you were over, had to remake it at some point
00:58 rue_shop2 ah
00:58 RifRaf ok need to start coding again to use these new gaits
00:59 RifRaf bit of copy/paste edit should keeps things working :P
01:45 rue_shop2 !assist circuits
01:45 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/circuits
02:51 RifRaf rue_shop2 so what are yu up to this evening?
02:52 rue_shop2 I just made sure I had everything for the kids robots tommorow and now I'm playing with some code kat was into before i make supper and turn in
02:52 RifRaf will they find the house this week?
02:53 rue_shop2 dunno
02:53 rue_shop2 dont knwo what happened last time
02:53 RifRaf i'd show you me arm but have squashed the tablet
02:53 RifRaf so no video
02:53 rue_shop2 squashed?
02:53 rue_shop2 like zhanx squashed?
02:54 RifRaf yeah has a crack in corner of screen and the touch part won't work
02:54 e_shop2 makes animation of boot going back and forth to a sc
02:54 RifRaf could not make it take a video with the keyboard, just images
02:55 RifRaf is nice having a jitterless servo arm
02:55 RifRaf cannot even tell its on till i press button and then it does stuff
02:56 RifRaf is pretty fast when it tries to catch flies
02:56 rue_shop2 I was thinking of making a dead accurate servo controller
02:56 RifRaf this is rue, why don't you try it
02:56 rue_shop2 mm
02:56 RifRaf well so much better than any servo code i tryed before
02:56 rue_shop2 I cant do 16 bit, I can only get to about 14 or so
02:56 RifRaf just do it
02:58 RifRaf wondering what to do next, gonna make a new set of gaits now that i have buttons, maybe biuld a lego wall?
02:58 RifRaf yeah right
02:59 RifRaf your robot kids would love one of these arms
03:01 RifRaf need to make the sonar do stuff, have any ideas for some quick code?
03:01 RifRaf its reading the input when i plug it in, but when not plugged in have to comment it out of the code
03:04 rue_shop2 did you see th big arm we built?
03:05 RifRaf no
03:05 rue_shop2 oh
03:05 rue_shop2 !assist robots
03:05 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots
03:05 rue_shop2 1 sec
03:05 RifRaf well maybe but don't remember
03:05 rue_shop2 http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm5/p1030984.jpg
03:05 rue_shop2 the intense kid made most of it
03:06 rue_shop2 and programmed it
03:06 RifRaf where did you get all the linear actuators?
03:07 RifRaf i want some
03:07 rue_shop2 one of the care homes got rid of a whole bunch of their beds
03:07 RifRaf wow cool
03:07 rue_shop2 I asked if I could strip the actuators off and they said ok
03:07 RifRaf were they pretty strong
03:07 rue_shop2 4000N ;)
03:07 RifRaf very nice rue
03:07 rue_shop2 thats 400kg
03:07 rue_shop2 I used one to jack up the lathe
03:08 RifRaf yep a big body, good stuff
03:08 rue_shop2 we can program point sequences into it
03:08 RifRaf what did the arm do?
03:08 rue_shop2 its got no speed control tho
03:08 rue_shop2 it does have position feedback
03:08 RifRaf cool
03:08 rue_shop2 it does a great job crushing cans ;)
03:09 RifRaf your workshop looks very cool too
03:09 rue_shop2 :)
03:09 rue_shop2 its pretty damn busy
03:09 rue_shop2 I need to sell off some of these robots so I have space to make more
03:10 RifRaf yep, any market for them?
03:10 e_shop2 sh
03:10 RifRaf i clean up all the time now, have to keep house tidy
03:10 rue_shop2 movie props?
03:10 RifRaf no whenever i get something complete do a tidy up before i test it
03:11 RifRaf the house is like you would remember at moment though
03:11 RifRaf cept alot more organised cause got rid of alot
03:11 RifRaf when you have too much crap it useless because you can never find stuff
03:12 RifRaf now i do a quick hunt for parts and find all these other cool bits at the same time as finding what i actually want
03:12 rue_shop2 http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm5/p1030898.jpg
03:12 rue_shop2 you can see more around from that one
03:13 RifRaf crazy
03:13 rue_shop2 http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm5/p1030724.jpg
03:13 rue_shop2 lotza bins
03:13 RifRaf so i made this arm dance today, do i win the prize?
03:13 rue_shop2 they follow a storage upgrade chain
03:13 rue_shop2 only if we get to see it on youtube
03:13 RifRaf i have no camera
03:13 rue_shop2 (with musci preffered)
03:13 rue_shop2 then your close :)
03:14 RifRaf yes was to music
03:14 RifRaf tomorrow will have to make a dancing set of gaits, to make it better
03:14 rue_shop2 http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm5/p1030021.jpg
03:14 rue_shop2 removable hand :)
03:14 RifRaf but i need another idea for something constructive
03:15 rue_shop2 do some labour and get foxy on her feet
03:15 rue_shop2 mentally
03:15 rue_shop2 ok supper and bed
03:15 rue_shop2 !
03:15 rue_shop2 !time
03:15 tobbor My watch says its 01:07AM Sat Feb 09 2013
03:15 RifRaf i need to learn in small scale again first
03:15 RifRaf all this stuff is so i can make bigger parts in future
03:15 RifRaf but want to master this first
03:17 RifRaf got this xyz sensor on the way, can i mount it in the gripper and use its feedback to keep the gripper at a specific angle? like flat
03:17 RifRaf rather than having to tell 3 or 4 servos where to go
03:24 rue_house oo
03:24 RifRaf ok
03:24 RifRaf usefull for anything?
03:24 rue_house I bought 20 game cntroller sets for like $4 ea
03:24 rue_house each of the two sticks has a 6 axis accel in it
03:24 RifRaf nice
03:24 rue_house I THINK I know what sensor is in them
03:25 RifRaf but i have 3
03:25 rue_house so I wanted to try talking to them
03:25 RifRaf and its supported by theses libraries
03:25 RifRaf so plug and play
03:25 rue_house whats hte part number of yours
03:25 RifRaf will find
03:25 rue_house shall I send you one of mine you can try it out?
03:26 RifRaf http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280770877145?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
03:26 RifRaf if these work i'll be happy, but sure
03:29 rue_house interesting
03:30 RifRaf does it seem ok, i am very new, just got it cause it was cheap enough to experiment and supported?
03:31 rue_house no idea
03:31 rue_house I havn't tried any of mine
03:32 RifRaf so rue_house, i want the gripper to grab something if its 5cm or less away
03:32 RifRaf should be easy enough eh
03:32 RifRaf as long as the gripper itself does not get in the way
03:32 RifRaf need to open it fully first
03:33 RifRaf might have to hook up rs232 so i can see what it it seeing
03:34 rue_house you have one of those servos that works but you cant use?
03:34 RifRaf many small ones
03:34 rue_house would you like to see if you can get position feedback from them?
03:34 RifRaf i sent all my bad bigger ones to Triffid today
03:35 rue_house heh, good show
03:35 RifRaf ok do i have to hook up an external pot?
03:35 rue_house no
03:35 rue_house I wan tto know if the INTERNAL pot has a variable voltage on it
03:35 rue_house it might be pulses, I honestly dont know
03:35 RifRaf ok so pull apart a brand new one?
03:36 RifRaf had too many drinks to see now, but will do early AM
03:36 RifRaf they are small
03:37 RifRaf have chopped off the servo leads from the ones that don't work or have stripped gears
03:37 rue_house you want to tap the wiper on the pot
03:37 RifRaf so i never use em by accident again
03:37 rue_house ah, it needs to work a bit
03:37 RifRaf i will use a new one rue
03:37 rue_house ok
03:37 RifRaf and test on the arm first so i know its good before i pull it apart
03:38 rue_house it shouldn't damage it any
03:38 RifRaf so solder 3 wires to the pot?
03:38 rue_house you have a hand remote w/ foxy stuff tho dont you?
03:38 rue_house just to the middle pin
03:38 rue_house measure voltage from that to ground as it moves
03:38 RifRaf have a remote control, but no recievers and stuff anymore
03:38 rue_house it might be a voltage, and it might be pulses
03:38 rue_house ah
03:39 RifRaf i am sending pulses pwm software
03:39 rue_house yes
03:39 rue_house internally, I dont know if the control chip uses pulses or voltage on the pot
03:39 rue_house the last...
03:39 RifRaf oh
03:40 RifRaf and you do meand the sg90 blue servos right?
03:40 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
03:40 rue_house the last schematic I found seems to indicate that its a 2.5V feed to the pot
03:41 RifRaf am using some digital ones in the arm now, at the bade joints
03:41 RifRaf um, the base* joints
03:41 rue_house yep
03:41 rue_house less jitter
03:41 rue_house I say in there why they jitter
03:41 rue_house you might want to give it a read someimt
03:41 RifRaf yes they are sweet, had em for the boat servo controller, but they were heaps jittery in that, now they are silent
03:42 RifRaf i have no jitter rue, this thing has been one for an hour since i pressed a button and no sound
03:42 RifRaf thats all 7 servos are silent
03:42 RifRaf and no heat
03:43 rue_house did the water stuff the reciever on the boat?
03:43 RifRaf no its was interference from the motor i think
03:43 rue_house see the diagram there?
03:43 RifRaf was all good after a few years, just the servo screws were bit rusty, the servos are like brand new
03:43 rue_house indicates the pot is on a 2.5V regulator?
03:45 RifRaf ok (13) i think
03:45 rue_house if you just bring a tap off the middle pot pin, you mean measure to know if its good for positon feedback
03:46 rue_house if you want to know the load on the servo, watch how long the current pulses are, the longer they are, the more the load is
03:46 RifRaf well being a servo it does have position feedback no?
03:46 RifRaf i see the load by watching the current draw on the desktop supply
03:46 rue_house but you wont know where it is with the microcontroller
03:47 rue_house did I misunderstand you wanted to know?
03:47 RifRaf and plug in one at a time till all 7 have less than 0.1A energised but no load, including uC
03:47 rue_house yes, but if you want the controller to grab something with a set amount of force
03:47 RifRaf maybe
03:47 RifRaf oh yes, i do want that soon
03:48 rue_house the longer the current pulse, the more force its exerting
03:48 RifRaf ok
03:48 RifRaf and i can measure that at the pot?
03:48 rue_house no
03:48 RifRaf oh
03:48 rue_house the pot is to give you a reading on the REAL servo position
03:49 RifRaf ok lets try in morning, am not much good now
03:49 rue_house ok
03:49 rue_house did you look over hte page I made?
03:50 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
03:50 rue_house ?
03:50 RifRaf yep i sure did
03:50 rue_house I tried to say stuff nobody else does
03:50 rue_house as well as covering the basics
03:51 RifRaf yep will have to reread in morning, just saw familiar shapes
03:52 Triffid_Hunter RifRaf: if you want to measure servo load, measure the current it draws
03:53 RifRaf Triffid_Hunter have no current sensor on this board
03:53 rue_house thats harder than measuring the duration of the current pulse
03:53 RifRaf if i wanted to add one to the gripper it would just need an i/o port?
03:54 Triffid_Hunter RifRaf: the way they work internally is on the leading edge of the input pulse, it starts an internal timer with the feedback pot position. either the internal timer or the external signal will go low first, then the other one will go low. the one that goes low first sets the direction, and the difference is fed to a pulse extender that decides how long to leave the motor power on for
03:54 rue_house for my way, its just a digital input channel
03:54 rue_house Triffid_Hunter,
03:54 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
03:54 Triffid_Hunter so yeah measuring length of time that the motor is on would work nicely too
03:56 RifRaf i was not actually upto measuring force yet, for now just want it to grab an object if in gripper range using ultrasonic sensor
03:57 rue_house the upper traces are made with the first bits of the DSO I'm making
03:58 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: heh I love the differential input stage on your servo multiplexer
03:58 rue_house I didn't design it
03:58 RifRaf have made like a scanning gait, that goes all around the table at a set height, if an object apears in the way would like to grab it, pick it up and dump it somewhere, then scan for more
03:58 rue_house its from the Q4D site I think
03:58 RifRaf need to try make a robot that does something robotic
03:59 rue_house Triffid_Hunter, er, you mean the flipflop oscillator?
04:00 RifRaf Triffid_Hunter i chucked in several servos that i didn't wanna see anymore but hopefully you can just chuck out if no good to you, maybe for gears and cables etc
04:00 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/images/rc-dec.gif
04:01 RifRaf some just were drawing too much current idle
04:01 rue_house "Quick! do you have a particle accelerator!?" "er, no, but I can throw one togethor?"
04:01 Triffid_Hunter RifRaf: yeah cool, I was running low on fine insulated wire :)
04:01 rue_house Triffid_Hunter, ah
04:01 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: differentiating the rx signal vs its own average is pretty neat, must remember that technique
04:09 Triffid_Hunter rue_house, RifRaf: http://triffid-hunter.no-ip.info/bldc_brd.png <-- something I'm working on, I reckon I can fit a '328 in at the top instead of the big header
04:13 rue_bed calculated ohms on the trace?
04:15 RifRaf Triffid_Hunter are you using all the vias for heat dissipation or?
04:19 Triffid_Hunter RifRaf: partially to keep the ground planes properly linked and intact, partially for aesthetics
04:20 Triffid_Hunter would have it stitched down the left side too except I want the top layer to be motor current and bottom layer can be logic ground, as a simple two way star-point at the ground wire
04:20 Triffid_Hunter the vias under the mosfets in the middle are for heat, yes
04:20 Triffid_Hunter and under the A4960 too
04:23 Triffid_Hunter rue_bed: the shunt I think I calculated, don't remember what it was though
04:24 Triffid_Hunter hence putting some tstop over it, then I can solder more copper on if it's too high, or cut it if it's too low
04:24 Triffid_Hunter all the tstop from power input to the mosfets is so I can solder all my used wick on top of the high current paths
04:30 RifRaf sending the sonic distance to pc at 115200 bps gave me BSOD
04:30 RifRaf but was sending data, so maybe if i just store it in a variable instead of sending it?
04:30 RifRaf and compare to see when its small?
04:40 RifRaf would like to only check distance every 100ms or so but keep the servos smooth
04:42 Triffid_Hunter timers are your friend.. https://github.com/triffid/ESC/blob/master/esc.c#L433 may give you some idea for grabbing the reply
04:43 RifRaf ok thanks
04:44 RifRaf don't think i have any timers left though
04:44 Triffid_Hunter RifRaf: that code uses timer1 for both input and output at once
04:45 Triffid_Hunter got it set for 10-bit PWM ie counts to 1024, and also run the input capture from it at the same time
04:45 RifRaf ok i will need to look in the morning, cannot focus on it now
04:46 RifRaf they also talk about schedulers with this library, maybe can do something with that
14:00 RifRaf morning
14:30 NightRavenXS hey RifRaf
16:44 Tom_itx so rue_shop2
16:44 Tom_itx what did we do today?
17:52 RifRaf must be too busy to talk tom
18:07 RifRaf been battling to get battery charged and get an old camera to turn on but would not
18:08 RifRaf so threw it on the floor, and hey presto, turned on first go :/
18:08 theBear stop watching it, it'll never boil, but, it cannot even be a battery until you perceive it, let alone a charged one !
18:10 rue_shop2 RifRaf, hahahah
18:11 RifRaf was an old fujifilm, meant to be shockproof, so i went well take this
18:12 RifRaf might be able to get a dancing robot arm yet rue
18:12 theBear if it was really shockproof it still wouldn't work :)
18:12 RifRaf musta been something a bit corroded or stuck
18:43 Tom_itx rue_shop2 you better watch out or you will get beat to the dancing bot
18:45 RifRaf there are no rules on how modern the dance moves have to be is there?
18:45 rue_shop2 no
18:45 rue_shop2 I dont have a robot that can really move fast enough right now
18:45 RifRaf gonna teach it dubstep next, just have to nod the head for that
18:47 Tom_itx well i don't really have a robot
18:49 RifRaf make a new one tom
18:51 rue_shop2 yea tom, make an arm
18:52 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/old_misc_files/image012.jpg
18:52 Tom_itx io expander
18:53 RifRaf yay plugged in a usb mouse and can use tablet again
18:54 RifRaf was no touch pad or touch screen working
19:33 rue_shop2 I think I shoudl make some gearboxes
19:33 rue_shop2 or, hmm
19:34 RifRaf gead some gears?
19:34 RifRaf need?
19:49 rue_shop2 if I'm gonna make an arm I want ot use air muscles, but I dont have a way to read the force yeat
19:53 Tom_itx i thought you did
19:53 Tom_itx ever try 'total recorder' ?
19:57 Tom_itx what's a good format to save audio files?
19:57 RifRaf does it record movements tom?
19:57 RifRaf mp3?
19:57 RifRaf or flac
19:57 Tom_itx PCM MP3 OGG Vorbis WMA FLAC APE
19:58 rue_shop2 RifRaf, with that position feedback we talked about this morning you could backdrive the servos and record the position
19:58 rue_shop2 s
19:58 RifRaf yep can't wait to try stuff like that rue
19:59 RifRaf the arm is stable now, and will be better when a few new servos arrive
19:59 RifRaf the elbow does does have the right servo horn and slips at times
19:59 RifRaf will get em this week so all good
20:12 RifRaf this arm is made to dance to rammstein :)
20:15 ace4016 by this arm, considering this channel, i assume robotic arm. but you might be a bit of a dancer :P
20:15 RifRaf hello ace4016
20:16 ace4016 hi:)
20:17 RifRaf ace4016 my first attenpt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbVwU4Qmx30
20:18 ace4016 ah, pretty cool
20:18 ace4016 what control scheme are you using to control the arms? IK, FK?
20:18 RifRaf just wanted to do ne with the small 9 gram servos
20:18 RifRaf one*
20:20 Tom_itx is mp4 better or mp3?
20:21 Jak_o_Shadows different.
20:21 ace4016 mp4 is video; mp3 is audio only
20:40 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: I generally use ogg vorbis or flac
20:41 RifRaf ok folks here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn-QCJp0EE8 :)
20:41 Triffid_Hunter I wonder if cortex-m4 is fast enough to decode vorbis and mp3
20:42 RifRaf could not get the song wanted but is cheerful enough
20:44 ace4016 RifRaf, FotC, nice
20:44 ace4016 :P
20:49 RifRaf cheers, would you considering it dancing ace4016? the end at least
20:50 RifRaf is 3 gaits, one to pickup and throw, one to contort a bit, and the other a bit of a dance
20:51 ace4016 sorta; yea
20:52 RifRaf ok thats enough to win rues competition then
20:53 Triffid_Hunter heh poor lego men being thrown around
20:54 RifRaf yep perfect victims
20:54 Triffid_Hunter just need a little mechanical dampening and perhaps a conveyor belt to feed it more victims
20:54 RifRaf yes or another arm
20:55 RifRaf Triffid_Hunter a few new servos will help, am suffering a bit in the elbow and wrist
20:55 Triffid_Hunter aww dropped one
20:56 RifRaf then will remake the small arm, witl a few metal gear servos it will be fine
20:56 RifRaf yes was no editing
20:56 RifRaf just got the old camera going long enough
20:56 Triffid_Hunter RifRaf: next step, http://youtu.be/e9geaPrEW3E ;)
20:58 RifRaf not fair :(
20:59 RifRaf i will make a little lego wall this week, but will skip putting pins into holes now :/
20:59 Triffid_Hunter RifRaf: I dunno, given a million bucks and a couple years I reckon you'd do it :)
21:18 Tom_itx nice job rif
21:24 RifRaf cheers Tom_itx
21:24 RifRaf weight verses stability i am happy with, just slow servos down for the grab to be precise
21:26 Jak_o_Shadows I got those voltage things, with the 7-seg displays a few days ago. The rest of the stuff i ordered, sevo, resistors, etc, are probably coming soon
21:26 RifRaf if not for the slipping elbow the video woulda be good first take, but that wat it is i guess for now
21:26 RifRaf nice Jak_o_Shadows have a few in me desk as well
21:27 RifRaf on even
21:29 Jak_o_Shadows I only got the one, as it's more for flicking a switch. This way, I don't need 4 mosfets, just the one.
21:29 Jak_o_Shadows Or none really, if i don't want speed control, just direction
21:30 RifRaf hrm sorry i thought you meant the 2A adjustable voltage regs
21:31 RifRaf has 3 x 7seg led display for input and output voltage
21:31 Jak_o_Shadows yeah yeah, got two of them as well.
21:32 Jak_o_Shadows More looking forward to the servo though
21:38 RifRaf what kinda servo?
21:39 Jak_o_Shadows It's just a small 9g one.
21:39 RifRaf k like in me arm gripper
21:40 Jak_o_Shadows yeah
22:09 RifRaf rue_house
22:13 Tom_itx i hate when they update software and change options on you