#robotics Logs

Nov 30 2012

15:31 sts23 would taking an intro to electrical engineering class be the right step to get into robotics
15:33 Skwint it's a good step - I'm not sure it's the best one or essential, but it would help
15:34 sts23 i dont want it to bea career but as a hobby
15:34 Skwint you might find if you can hold a soldering iron without burning yourself that any class called "intro" doesn't teach you anything you don't already know :)
15:34 sts23 i have background in computer science
15:34 Skwint as a hobby, I learnt the basics off the internet - I'm definitely no expert
15:34 sts23 yeah i meant like going off the internet not at an actual college sorry.
15:35 sts23 i was going through MIT's open course ware
15:35 Skwint try society-of-robots - it has some tutorials and a $50 robot design
15:35 sts23 yeah i saw it
15:35 sts23 but half the stuff didn't make sense to me
15:35 Skwint ah, OK ... I tried asking in here when I was confused - it was condescending but very helpful :}
15:35 Skwint AFK sorry
15:36 sts23 yeah most people on irc are very condescending
15:36 sts23 especially for newbies
15:37 sts23 are you able to build your own robots?
15:37 sts23 i want to mainly build things that i can control with a smartphone
15:37 anannie I haven't seen katsmeow around in a while, is she okay?
15:39 sts23 also i did have an intro to engineering class in college years ago where we built robots with lego mindstorm
15:41 anannie sts23: I suggest going back to Lego Mindstorms and learning a little more about how physical systems function and getting an intuition for them
15:57 Skwint I have my own robot which talks to my smartphone
15:57 Skwint but it is very primitive
15:57 Skwint I hope to progress to neolithic level robotics one day
16:02 ace4016 anannie, she got klined like a week or two ago. for spamming
16:02 anannie ace4016 Spamming?
16:03 ace4016 intro to X engineering usually teaches a lot more than you'll learn holding a soldering iron :P
16:03 ace4016 there are many technicians that can solder the hell out of a board but couldn't tell you what the components are doing on that board
16:04 ace4016 anannie, aye; guess she felt the channel was boring, off topic, and such and decided to just keep typing "marshmellow" into the chat
16:04 anannie ace4016: Ah I see.
16:05 anannie ace4016: I agree with you that most engineers can't tell you what the components are doing on the board, but when it comes to building physical systems I think that developing that intuitions counts as well. It's a requisite on top of which you can build something
16:11 ace4016 aye; but creating systems from scratch typically requires at least the basics...one way or another
16:13 ace4016 although...
16:14 ace4016 robotics is one of those things that hits a lot of fields, so you'll want to hit mechanical and electrical stuff sts23; you already have the programming part down except for the part about using embedded processors and such
16:14 ace4016 it's a different beast than PC software
16:22 anannie ace4016: Yes.
17:33 sts23 is it possible to build a rc plane that is controlled by a smart phone
17:35 rizlah It is possible to do almost anything.
17:36 sts23 is it realistic for someone to do it by themselves?
17:36 rizlah Yes
17:36 Skwint yeah
17:36 Skwint however
17:37 ace4016 they already make helicopters that are controllable by smartphone (mainly iphone)
17:37 Skwint it will be _easier_ to control the RC plane using one of the control boards for ATmega chips (or equivalent)
17:37 Skwint and talk to that using the phone
17:37 Skwint my robot is (still) a radio controlled car that I took apart and stuck wires into, and my phone can communicate two ways with that using bluetooth
17:38 Skwint doing the same to my RC plane is my next project, because having a flying camera with a GPRS uplink sounds cool
17:38 Jak_o_Shadows You won't be able to use bluetooth though? Because of range issues?
17:38 Skwint I will if the phone is in the plane too?
17:38 Jak_o_Shadows um, ok, yeah.
17:38 Skwint and the phone has tilt sensors, a GPS and a camera, so sticking it on the plane sounds helpful
17:40 sts23 i wouldnt trust to put the phone in the plane
17:40 Skwint sts23, do you want to use your phone as a hand held remote for the plane, or do you want it to be an AI on the plane?
17:40 Skwint that answers that then :)
17:40 Skwint how would you like to communicate with the plane?
17:41 Skwint the helicopters around in the shops seem to like wifi, but a helicopter has less tendency to zoom off out of wifi range...
17:41 Skwint in which case you need a 3G link on the plane (or equivalent)
17:41 sts23 remote
17:41 Jak_o_Shadows hmm, that's a good point. My laptop has tilt sensors in it as well...
17:41 sts23 yeah range is an issue
17:42 Skwint that is possible, but I've never done it, and I don't know how to, because that would involve a SIM on the plane
17:42 Skwint hence my intention to make the phone fly :p
17:42 sts23 yeah what if the plane drops
17:42 sts23 or someone steals it for whatever reason :|
17:42 Skwint the plane costs as much as a phone
17:42 Jak_o_Shadows a RC plane probably costs more than a phone
17:42 Skwint and the work put into making the robot out of them far exceeds the value of either
17:43 Skwint part of RC flying is ... crashing ...
17:43 sts23 one thing that is pretty simple i want to build something that would rotate with a smart phone
17:43 Skwint generally my plane "lives" but ..
17:43 sts23 so if i set it to rotate 360 degrees in 1 hour it would do that
17:43 sts23 someone told me to use arduino with a servo
17:43 Skwint "rotate" ?
17:43 sts23 yeah
17:44 Skwint this ... is not an RC plane anymore?
17:44 sts23 oh no its something separate
17:44 sts23 i was just curious about the rc plane
17:44 Skwint well, it sounds like a better beginner project anyway
17:44 sts23 but this is something i actually do want to build
17:44 sts23 the programming i can figure out without much issue
17:44 Skwint arduino is one of those things that attracts extra helpings of condescension in here :p
17:44 sts23 yeah i figured
17:45 Skwint I don't know why - I don't have one
17:45 sts23 because the people who told me basically said "since you dont know anything use arduino"
17:45 sts23 not just here but everywhere
17:45 wint
17:45 sts23 my total budget is $50 for the project do you think thats realistic enough
17:45 Skwint there are other things out there - arduino is popular but seems to have a few "let's be weird on purpose" problems
17:45 ace4016 which one? the RC one?
17:45 sts23 no
17:46 sts23 the rotation thing
17:46 ace4016 the rotation one? sure
17:46 Skwint for a rotating servo controlled from a phone
17:46 sts23 the one problem is that i have a size issue
17:46 Skwint erm ... again, communication with the phone is an issue
17:46 sts23 arduino communicates with the phone
17:46 ace4016 not really; they sell bluetooth communicators
17:46 Skwint using a bluetooth module, which adds to the price
17:46 Skwint I bought a bluesmirf silver for my axon and it worked really easily
17:47 sts23 arduino comes with wifi i think
17:47 Skwint oooh, yeah, some of the new ones do have things like that on
17:48 Skwint in that case it will be a piece of cake - a servo is about $1 and making it rotate is "hello world"
17:48 sts23 the problem is i need it to rotate about 6-7lbs
17:48 Skwint if you want it to rotate at a specified speed and _keep_going_ a stepper motor might be a better choice - a servo is for "rotate to this location"
17:48 Skwint now you need to talk to someone else - I can't help there
17:49 sts23 yeah i am really new at this
17:50 sts23 i took some classes in hs and college but they were pretty intro level and they were years ago i forgot most of it
18:02 Skwint trouble with arduino is all these "shield" things
18:02 Skwint I have no idea what they are or why you need them :(
18:02 Skwint which means while it might be a quick way to get started, it's "odd" in some way
18:03 Skwint down side of an axon2 (which I have) is that it costs 5 times as much as an arduino :/
18:06 sts23 yeah im a beginner. my goal is to build something simple within 3 months
18:07 sts23 maybe a small vehicle that moves
18:13 Triffid_Hunter sts23: arduino is great hardware, but the software and libraries generally suck
18:14 Triffid_Hunter sts23: small vehicle that moves eh.. grab a few L293D, get some little gearboxes and a 3S lipo from hobbyking or wherever
18:15 Triffid_Hunter sts23: alternatively, go to your local toystore and get a toy tank or scorcher or anything else with differential steering and gut it
19:36 sts23 Triffid_Hunter: i am a complete newbie i have no idea how electricy or anything works
19:36 sts23 i just know v = i/r
19:36 sts23 thats about it
20:47 Triffid_Hunter sts23: amasci.com/ele_edu.html is a great starting point, then allaboutcircuits.com
20:48 Triffid_Hunter sts23: arduino community will have stacks of tutorials as well
20:48 Triffid_Hunter sts23: sites like pololu.com, sparkfun.com and adafruit.com have stacks of modules for the budding inventor
21:04 moriarty sts23, $50 for a project budget?
21:04 moriarty it may be a bit of a squeeze
21:04 moriarty try upping it by a factor of a few
21:04 moriarty say $300
21:05 Tom_itx you'd be surprised what rue's doen for $0
21:06 moriarty lol what is he doing?
21:07 Tom_itx just about anything
21:10 Tom_itx http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/
21:10 Tom_itx have a look around
21:11 ace4016 $50 can go a long way for a simple beginner project
21:56 sts23 $50 for a device that rotates with a smartphone
21:57 sts23 i just bought a book
21:58 sts23 http://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Electronic-Circuits-Kaufmann-Architecture/dp/1558607358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354333544&sr=8-1&keywords=foundations+of+analog+and+digital+electronic+circuits
21:58 sts23 i read good reviews on it and the course is the one i was intending to take
22:30 rue_mohr I object
22:30 rue_mohr my project budget is $20, and I go no farther than 200% overbudget
22:44 rue_mohr I got some nail polish, I think I'm gonna go work out if it works in the plotter pens
22:44 rue_mohr Tom_itx, does acetone damage that screen?
22:44 rue_mohr the silk screening screen?
22:45 TELunus % overbudget being 100%*(final/budget), or 100%*((final-budget)/budget)?
22:46 rue_mohr 100%*(final/budget)
23:14 Tom_itx i didn't try acetone
23:14 Tom_itx i used enamel reducer
23:14 Tom_itx or naptha
23:15 Tom_itx on what i was doing
23:25 rue_mohr I have some .025" drafting pen heads for hte plotter
23:26 rue_mohr if the nail polish works in them, I'm set
23:26 rue_mohr and for better there is the scribe thing
23:26 rue_mohr tho I'm not sure if a scribe will jam in the plotter
23:27 rue_mohr its not a parallel lift, its a lever, so it might jamb in one direction
23:30 rue_mohr the idea of being able to use eagle with the plotter is nice too
23:30 rue_mohr I have a lot of time tommorow, maybe I should sleep on it
23:40 Tom_itx no kids?
23:45 rue_mohr phoned and canceled
23:46 rue_mohr maybe I'll make up something to post at the library