#robotics Logs

Nov 23 2012

11:48 Skwint I wonder when we'll hit the realization that working around the enormous design limitation inherant in "human-driveable" is necessary for a self-driving car?
11:49 Skwint or when we'll suddenly notice that making a robot balance on two feet because the ones in 1950's movies could do it isn't necessarily the best first step on the way to automated home help?
11:51 ace4016 we've gotten past all that actually
11:51 ace4016 we have cars that can drive themselves and researchers are actually going away from bipeds
11:51 ace4016 but the main issue is that robots, at the moment, of any use, are expensive.
11:52 sw0rdfish the first thing you said Skwint ... can you plz rephrase it (english ain't my first language) .....
11:54 ace4016 sw0rdfish, the realization of those concepts is based on software mainly, yes. they don't necessarily need to be AI
11:54 sw0rdfish I was actually watching 2057 The City.... and they showed a self-driving cars race..... only 5 out of 23 made it to the finish line (the others crashed and stuff)
11:54 sw0rdfish that documentary video was produced by Discovery like 5 or 6 years ago too
11:55 Skwint I meant a car is an awkward thing because you need to have a human driver, facing forward, and able to see clearly in all directions
11:55 Skwint once it doesn't require a human driver I think the shape is really silly
11:56 ace4016 you're not the first to think about that Skwint; niether am I :P
11:59 sw0rdfish http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=X4xmkq4FOM0#t=721s
11:59 sw0rdfish I'm watching that video (all of it, but I copied the link for you right at the time when they show the self-driving car race)
12:01 sw0rdfish lol
12:01 sw0rdfish I gotta say
12:02 sw0rdfish the way the crashing ones crash is just funny
12:02 sw0rdfish and I applaud the ones that made it
12:04 ace4016 lol
12:05 ace4016 one thing to remmeber with discovery channel does is that it's meant for the lay men, and also to be entertaining; more so than educational
12:05 ace4016 so...
12:05 ace4016 take what you watch with a grain of salt
12:09 sw0rdfish I take it you're not a fan of Michio Kaku
12:09 sw0rdfish haha
12:09 sw0rdfish everytime I ask about him in ##physics or mention him, folks are appalled
12:10 sw0rdfish seems like its the non-physicists that are in love with his way of speaking and stuff
12:10 sw0rdfish he's in almost every astrophysics and futuristic shows
12:10 sw0rdfish especially astrophysics stuff
12:14 ace4016 they're appalled because they are not his target audience
12:14 ace4016 the target audience is the lay man
12:14 ace4016 those not in the know
12:16 sw0rdfish damn it, they're showing about the future's surveillance systems... so back again back to the software question... I hope we have intelligent camera surveillance systems that can identify you by themselves?
12:17 sw0rdfish ace4016, yes I agree with that.
12:18 sw0rdfish I know that software development and all really started to advance greatly in the past decade, but I would've bet there already is such surveillance systems and self-driving vehicles ....
12:18 sw0rdfish heck the military probably has those but for the public to have them they maybe want time or something.
12:31 ace4016 well, we already have cars that can drive themselves, or have the capability at least; seperate from anything the military has
12:31 ace4016 we also have fairly advanced security systems
12:43 sw0rdfish cool
15:30 james-jones hi, i wish to do video/image processing in real time from a robot camera. any suggestions on how to pick a budget camera that can meet shutter speed needs?
15:50 ace4016 james-jones, you already have your requirements if you know shutter speed
15:50 ace4016 and such
15:51 james-jones alright, so if i am selecting a webcam, i have some trouble i don't see this spec
15:51 james-jones if i want 1/125 or faster, is a webcam possible?
15:51 ace4016 most webcams are fairly low quality
15:52 Centauri the HD webcams are pretty good.. but thats a LOT of data to try streaming for processing
15:52 james-jones resolution should be 640x480 or less
15:52 ace4016 not sure there are many webcams that capture at 120Hz
15:52 james-jones does resolution affect motion blur from shutter speedÉ
15:52 james-jones ?
15:52 ace4016 even the HD ones
15:53 james-jones ok so maybe i need to go with a digital camera
15:53 ace4016 motion blur is mainly cured by shutter speed
15:53 chris_99 have a look at cheap canon/nikon compacts james-jones
15:53 ace4016 or rather, how quickly the camera can capture the image
15:53 ace4016 which, for digital cameras, may not be the same
15:54 chris_99 http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK may be of use
15:54 chris_99 but that might not give you the FPS you want
15:55 james-jones yeah i don't know what to call it
15:55 james-jones exposure time i guess
16:04 Tom_itx you'll need a good processor too
16:04 james-jones like i7?
16:41 james-jones can anyone suggest types of camera i may use on a robot car? i wish to use 640x480 resolution or lower with fast exposure time (1/125) to do video/image processing
16:44 rue_mohr todays arrived ebay items is an arcade button!
16:44 Jak_o_Shadows wooo!
16:46 rue_mohr red would have been more usefull on the bots :)
16:47 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/310362764110
16:47 rue_mohr its not small, about 1.5" diamiter
16:47 rue_mohr the threaded bit is a bit over an inch
16:47 Tom_itx rue_bed
16:48 Tom_itx tell rue_mohr i need something
16:50 home i need something
18:14 Tom_itx hmm. if you ever need an lcd sheet: http://www.beyondinfinite.com/library.html
18:18 chris_99 heh cool
18:25 james-jones would a netbook have problems doing object recognition (reading road signs) on 640x480 resolution at 10 frames per second?
18:25 Jak_o_Shadows james-jones: I hope not, that's what i'm planning
18:25 james-jones nice
18:25 james-jones are you using a USB camera?
18:26 Jak_o_Shadows nope, built in webcam
18:26 james-jones and what micro?
18:26 Jak_o_Shadows MSP430
18:26 james-jones serial comm from netbook to micro?
18:26 Jak_o_Shadows To be honest, i haven't done a lot. I'm trying to figure out steering and finding a wheel for the main motor
18:26 Jak_o_Shadows UART, so yeah?
18:27 james-jones we went with differential steering
18:27 james-jones but it's a pre-built robot
18:27 Jak_o_Shadows Ah, i'd do that, but i have only the one drill motor
18:27 james-jones how fast will that move?
18:28 Jak_o_Shadows No idea. It was a half-decent brand of drill before it got taken apart though
18:28 Jak_o_Shadows At the moment, i'm struggling to find a wheel for the motor to drive
18:29 james-jones sounds like you have a nice budget
18:29 james-jones how cheap are those micros?
18:29 Jak_o_Shadows Very, mine was the $4.30 launchpad.
18:30 james-jones awesome
18:30 james-jones and the drill was taken apart so freebie?
18:30 james-jones and the netbook wasn't bought either was it
18:30 Jak_o_Shadows Also, budget? I've budgeted maybe $30 for electronics parts.
18:30 Jak_o_Shadows Yeah, the battery was dead on the drill. I fixed that though, just dodgy contacts. The netbook was bought for other reasons, yeah
18:31 james-jones what kind of power supply you will use?
18:31 james-jones NiMH battery?
18:31 james-jones for motor and micro
18:31 Jak_o_Shadows Netbook will use it's own battery, uC will be powered via usb from the netbook, motors from the drill battery, so ni-cad i think.
18:31 james-jones ah ok
18:32 james-jones i was trying wireless
18:32 james-jones remote control
18:32 james-jones override
18:32 james-jones but it drives the cost way up
18:32 james-jones xbee link is like 100$
18:32 james-jones wifi camera, etc
18:33 james-jones initially planned to offload to i7 for video processing, but i guess a netbook might do it
18:33 james-jones simplifies communications immensely
18:34 Jak_o_Shadows I'm planning on the netbook to control most of what happens. I'm not that great at uC programming, but much better at computer
18:35 james-jones you using openCV?
18:37 Jak_o_Shadows yes, with python
18:37 Jak_o_Shadows eventually
18:39 james-jones is python slower than c++?
18:39 Jak_o_Shadows Apparently not so bad with openCV, but generally yes
18:40 james-jones ah ok... man i spent like 2 days trying to set up my environment
18:40 james-jones first they said to get minGW, CMake and openCV
18:40 james-jones then i realized im an idiot
18:40 Jak_o_Shadows Yeah, plus i don't know C/C++ that well
18:40 james-jones now i finally have configured VS2008 with openCV
18:40 james-jones and now i'm an idiot with a map
18:41 james-jones but i should probably learn the benefits of linux first-hand some day
19:06 home python and opencv and libfreenect, meh
19:06 home james-jones: I am going to use an RPI for detection, I am sure it will be good for what I am doing
19:07 home I got an ethernet cam though, I could process it on my lappy though XD
19:07 james-jones RPI?
19:07 home raspberry pi
19:07 james-jones aha
19:07 james-jones what camera?
19:07 home perfect for learning more about linux and doing some vision code, I guess
19:07 home uhm an axis ethernet camera
19:08 home I also got a Kinect which I use via lappy
19:08 home but I have been sooo BUSY, that I have not done much vision stuff
19:08 james-jones i looked into rpi
19:08 james-jones dunno about frame rate
19:09 james-jones python again
19:09 james-jones axis ethernet camera? what is the shutter speed? how fast is the car?
19:11 home not too sure, but its fine..
19:12 home brb
19:14 james-jones oh, i think mine is 1 km/hr right now
19:14 james-jones pretty slow, 28 cm/s by my calculations
19:15 james-jones 3.6 seconds to cover 1 metre
19:15 james-jones according to merchant website, haven't tested it yet
20:05 Tom_itx mmm apparently these older 20 x 4 lcd's don't have the same character set as newer ones