#robotics Logs

Nov 19 2012

00:45 TELunus rue_mohr: do you think I've forgotten any instructions I should add?
06:33 Tom_itx no rue_mohr, the 2nd one is too small
06:34 Tom_itx also only goes down to 12 tpi
06:37 Tom_itx didn't see a price on it either
06:38 Tom_itx big one comes with 3 and 4 jaw chucks too
06:38 Tom_itx a big plus
06:39 Tom_itx you will need a live center and lots of tooling for either one
08:49 rue_mohr TELunus|2, heh, my intention was a minimal instruction set :)
08:51 rue_mohr TELunus|2, I suggest a halt instruction, I suppose add 0 can be used as nop
08:51 rue_mohr TELunus|2, you also dont have any way to load the registers
08:57 rue_mohr Tom_itx, $1k vs $2k
08:57 rue_mohr but I dont know if I can fit the bigger one in the shop space
08:58 rue_mohr TELunus|2, if you just have a subtract instruction, you can use it to make the negitive of a value to add with
09:04 rue_mohr Tom_itx, looks like a live end and a tailstock chuck are important addition
09:04 rue_mohr s
09:04 rue_mohr te big one goes to 8tpi
09:05 rue_mohr cant exactly makea ballscrew with that either
19:14 rue_mohr an ebay item arrived today that was sent on oct 10
19:15 KimLaroux from USA to Canada? Isn't that normal?
19:21 Tom_itx rue_mohr you gonna get a lathe?
19:25 rue_mohr from china
19:25 rue_mohr everything stopped for 2 weeks
19:26 rue_mohr might see it start to trickle in again
19:26 rue_mohr Tom_itx, oh right
19:26 rue_mohr gonna go measure the shop and hmm alot
19:26 Tom_itx when is their newyear?
19:26 Tom_itx it disrupts shipping for like 3 weeks or more
19:40 rue_mohr aaaah
19:41 rue_mohr funny, I was just thinking that if I melted some marchmesslow down and put in some rice crispies, I could make some rice crispy squares
19:41 KimLaroux that sounds like a novel idea, why not try it out?
19:42 TELunus|2 Is that necessary?
19:42 orlok rue_mohr: How did you end up going with the aluminium casting?
19:42 TELunus|2 We don't really need to traumatize marshmallows like that do we?
20:09 rue_mohr unfortunate car names of 2013: The Ford Bogus
20:09 rue_mohr orlok, the pulley I needed to make didn't come out well, but I think I know more about the heat level now
20:10 orlok found the floor coating for the shed i want to use
20:10 rue_mohr TELunus|2, using a instruction set that require self-modifying code bends the brain in interesting ways
20:10 rue_mohr orlok, do tell
20:10 Tom_itx you poured a pulley?
20:10 rue_mohr yes
20:10 orlok http://www.dulux.com.au/specifier/our-brands/dulux-protective-coatings/products/concrete-flooring/product-detail?product=2294
20:10 rue_mohr for bending pipe for the mecha
20:10 Tom_itx oh
20:11 Tom_itx big pulley
20:11 rue_mohr orlok, how is the new house?
20:11 orlok settlement is jan or feb next year
20:11 rue_mohr you had to take them o court?
20:11 orlok Apparently the floor needs to be swept, washed, vacc'd, acid bathed, then vacc'd repeatedly until sticky tape will stick
20:12 orlok rue_mohr: Nah, just how long it takes.. "settlement" as in thwne the lawyers on each side agree on all the final paperwork
20:13 TELunus|2 rue_mohr: I can imagine.
20:14 NicholasRoge Quick question, if I wanted to move 15 pounds, would two 14.76 lb/in motors do the job?
20:14 orlok rue_mohr: But, i cant wait to move in. Coating the floor will be the first thing we do once we get keys
20:18 orlok Still not sure of the best way to get the telescope mount up to the workshop roof.
20:18 Jak_o_Shadows How heavy is it?
20:19 NicholasRoge Me?
20:19 Jak_o_Shadows Nah, orlok
20:19 Jak_o_Shadows Also, NicholasRoge, even if i could, i wouldnt' answer you unless you gave those figures in metric
20:20 orlok Jak_o_Shadows: ok, the actual issue of "lifting" it up there isnt so much an issue. its holding it in place in a vibration free manner
20:20 Jak_o_Shadows ah, i see
20:20 orlok Jak_o_Shadows: so the mount for it not only needs to be essentially over-engineered, but also mounted in a way thats isolated from the shed
20:22 NicholasRoge Jak_o_Shadows: 1.695 Newton meters
20:24 rue_mohr TELunus|2, tell NicholasRoge what his motor can do with his robot
20:25 orlok http://www.faintgalaxy.com/pierconstruction.htm
20:25 orlok Jak_o_Shadows: something like that, except the top needs to be a few meters up, and i dont want to waste too much space
20:25 orlok shed is timber frame, metal clad, concrete slab
20:33 TELunus|2 NicholasRoge: a 15 lb*in motor(I'm assuming you meant lb*in not lb/in since lb*in is torque which is what's relevant and is what you specified later in Nm) can exert 15lb at a distance of 1". If you use a larger distance you can exert less force, if you use a larger distance you can exert more.
20:33 TELunus|2 Unless you need to lift the 15lb you shouldn't need to exert 15lb to move it.
20:52 rue_mohr did he say the weight of his robot?
20:52 rue_mohr " Quick question, if I wanted to move 15 pounds, would two 14.76 lb/in motors do the job?"
20:53 rue_mohr so if we assume a 2" dia wheel,
20:53 rue_mohr what max incline and what accel ? :)
20:54 Tom_itx downhill
21:15 rue_mohr TELunus|2, hows the project?
21:15 rue_mohr hmm dollar menu is looking grim
21:17 TELunus|2 We handed it in on Friday, so I've enjoyed a weekend thinking about other things. However we now have to make a presentation on Wednesday, so I have to get back into it. At this point though the design can't change anymore, so we just have to figure out what to say.
21:18 Tom_itx rue_mohr you givin up on your dollar a day buys?
21:19 rue_mohr I'm running out of things to buy
21:19 rue_mohr that is, runn out of keywords
21:36 KimLaroux Since when do you buy stuff, rue?
21:37 rue_mohr I signed up for it when I saw http://xkcd.com/576/
21:37 rue_mohr because you know, I pay a LOT more /year for a LOT less in my life
21:37 rue_mohr "art" is a useless keyword to enter into ebay
21:40 rue_mohr Insurance is over $50/mo and I KNOW I'll never get anything out of that
21:40 rue_mohr Health is over $60/mo and they dont evan have the ability to help me
21:50 KimLaroux LOL seriously? so you receive packages without even knowing what's inside?
21:51 rue_mohr nono, I preselect everything
21:51 rue_mohr but they take so long to come that I never know what the package is
21:51 rue_mohr today I got a 7cmx9cm protoboard
21:52 KimLaroux So every month, you buy a 1$ item, that's it?
21:52 rue_mohr no, every day
21:52 KimLaroux woha
21:52 rue_mohr $1, free shipping
21:52 KimLaroux that's a novel idea
21:53 KimLaroux must end up with lots of cheap Chinese knockoffs
21:53 rue_mohr its only $265/year
21:53 KimLaroux 365*
21:53 rue_mohr tonnes of electronic components so far
21:53 rue_mohr and some chep gizmos
21:53 KimLaroux For me, that's a lot of money =P
21:53 rue_mohr 1W led
21:53 rue_mohr green, crazy bright
21:54 rue_mohr :) I got a red one first, set the power supply up wrong and blew it up
21:54 KimLaroux Considering the price of electronics on EBay, you would probably have more from your money if you placed a 365$ order at Digikey
21:54 rue_mohr not too much
21:54 KimLaroux for*
21:55 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1pcs-10pcs-50pcs-100pcs-1W-SMD-LED-Light-Part-White-Star-Emitter-90-100LM-6000K-/281016127980?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=580154157163&hash=item416dddd1ec
21:56 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LED-Driver-3-X-1W-Power-Supply-AC-DC-12V-Constant-Current-Driver-for-LED-Light-/221097340800?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337a6daf80
21:56 rue_mohr oooo
21:57 rue_mohr some usb cables, audio cables
21:57 KimLaroux Still sounds like a waste of money, and time
21:57 rue_mohr Blue led light for the dome light in my truck
21:57 rue_mohr no, its great
21:57 Tom_itx yeah but he's having fun
21:57 Tom_itx are you?
21:58 rue_mohr yea, fun costs a lot in north america, I'm getting off light
21:59 rue_mohr I got a pet whistle, but its NOT ultrasonic
21:59 rue_mohr I got a whistle triggered beeper, but once it starts going off, there is almost no stopping it
22:00 rue_mohr I got one of the walking counters they had on hack a day a bit ago, I took it apart, I know where some of the peices are
22:00 Tom_itx i got a graphic (i think) lcd i'd love to get working
22:01 rue_mohr does it have a local controller?
22:01 Tom_itx got another nice sized one that's serial
22:01 Tom_itx yes
22:01 rue_mohr cool
22:01 orlok pedometer?
22:01 orlok rue_mohr: weighted arm on a spring?
22:01 rue_mohr yea
22:01 rue_mohr electronic counter
22:02 rue_mohr did you see the volt meter someone made out of one in a hack-a-day feature?
22:02 orlok i bought one for $5 cos it came with a USB cable.. no display on it.
22:02 orlok it was a non-standard USB connector! :-(
22:02 orlok yup
22:03 Tom_itx rue_mohr, this is the serial one: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/lcd/lcd_txt.jpg
22:03 rue_mohr hahahaha
22:03 rue_mohr cool
22:03 rue_mohr its out of a printer?
22:03 Tom_itx you'll like this one even better: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/lcd/lcd.jpg
22:03 Tom_itx phone
22:04 rue_mohr pff
22:04 rue_mohr it cant do graphics
22:04 rue_mohr I can see
22:04 Tom_itx no
22:04 rue_mohr its fixed character blocks
22:04 Tom_itx the other one is the same size though
22:04 rue_mohr what phone?
22:04 Tom_itx i dunno
22:05 Tom_itx at&t
22:05 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/mtkflash/flash_howto_index.php
22:06 TELunus|2 Know any other computer archatechtures besides von nuemann, Harvard, Modified Harvard, and Dataflow?
22:07 orlok i have never heard of any of those before
22:07 Tom_itx sure you have
22:07 rue_mohr na, I know them by "intel" "motorola" and "risc"
22:07 orlok "binary" "analog"
22:07 rue_mohr hahah
22:08 orlok rue_mohr: oh, see the oscillator on HaD?
22:08 rue_mohr TELunus|2, did I prompt an interesting thought train?
22:08 rue_mohr orlok, yea
22:08 rue_mohr I was disapointed, I wanted her to use the lamp as a tube
22:08 rue_mohr cheatin to put in a chip
22:09 TELunus|2 Actually I started thinking about computer archetectures before I knew you were worknig on the brainfuck interperter.
22:09 rue_mohr ah, so my timing was good
22:09 TELunus|2 Ya.
22:10 TELunus|2 We were both working on it at the same time not this saturday but the one before.
22:10 rue_mohr I only made it to get a start with some thing I could make a self-modifying thing around
22:10 rue_mohr I'm still playing with my instruction set
22:10 rue_mohr 0 NOP
22:10 rue_mohr 1 IN IN->*X
22:10 rue_mohr 2 OUT V V->OUT
22:10 rue_mohr 15 HALT
22:10 rue_mohr 3 SETX V X = V
22:10 rue_mohr 4 SUBX V X = X - V
22:10 rue_mohr 5 TRAX A = X
22:10 rue_mohr 6 TRXA X = A
22:10 rue_mohr 7 LDAX A = *X
22:10 rue_mohr 8 STAX *X = A
22:10 rue_mohr 9 LDA V A = V
22:10 rue_mohr 10 SUBA V A = A - V
22:10 rue_mohr 11 JNZA V jump + V if A != 0
22:11 rue_mohr 12 JZA V jump + V if A == 0
22:11 rue_mohr 13 JNZX V jump + V if *X != 0
22:11 rue_mohr 14 JZX V jump + V if *X == 0
22:11 rue_mohr version 2 uses two registers, data and a pointer
22:11 rue_mohr the output is literal value only, so you HAVE to modify the code to output different values
22:11 TELunus|2 Ya, I still need to change mine some too. Also I think I might use Dataflow for my graphics.
22:11 rue_mohr as with adding, to add two numbers you have to have the code modify itself
22:11 rue_mohr matter a fact, to add two numbers you have to negate one first :)
22:12 TELunus|2 Ya, I think you mentioned that part erlier.
22:13 rue_mohr keeping the instructions down makes the self-modifying part easier
22:13 TELunus|2 I also want to represent comlex numbers, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to do that.
22:13 rue_mohr its interesting to write code thats literally modifying the next instruction
22:13 rue_mohr well
22:14 rue_mohr one of the things I'm thinking is a system that nativly modifies a 2d image map
22:14 TELunus|2 I want to have lots of instructions for my CPU.
22:14 rue_mohr where the colours of the pixels are the values
22:15 rue_mohr have it draw things
22:15 rue_mohr I'm playing, its bending the way I think, this is good
22:15 TELunus|2 Ya.
22:15 rue_mohr the cat left a full size robin at the door today :S
22:16 TELunus|2 for a while I was trying to write an instruction set interperter in brainf**k.
22:16 Tom_itx rue_mohr what are your plans for this?
22:17 rue_mohr TELunus|2, its easy till you get to the branch instructions
22:17 rue_mohr sentient code
22:18 rue_mohr via recursive self-modifying code
22:18 Tom_itx it brought you supper
22:18 rue_mohr Im almost happy with the medium, I just need to finalize and come up with some "DNA"
22:19 rue_mohr "making a machine sentient is easy, you just have to know what to do"
22:20 rue_mohr so its just a matter of breaking down the problem and resolving the 'what' part
22:20 rue_mohr :)
22:22 rue_mohr THAT SHUT YOU ALL UP TIGHT
22:22 rue_mohr hahah
22:22 rue_mohr its sane, it really is.
22:23 rue_mohr I have to create an extremly capable AI to work out how to upload me into a machine so I can be immortal
22:23 rue_mohr cause there is no way I can work it all out before I die
22:24 Tom_itx what's the last bot you built?
22:24 rue_mohr does the reprap count?
22:24 Tom_itx umm
22:24 orlok rue_mohr: How is that going?
22:24 Tom_itx hmm
22:24 Tom_itx i suppose it could
22:24 orlok that reminds me
22:24 orlok Triffid_Hunter: you there?
22:24 rue_mohr the tiny26 sequencer program works great
22:24 Tom_itx but only because you sucked me in to it
22:25 rue_mohr but we cant get step/dir commands out of the controller
22:25 rue_mohr I think its because I have no limit switches yet
22:25 Tom_itx turn them off
22:25 rue_mohr so thats my next step, install the limit switches
22:25 Tom_itx with marlin?
22:25 rue_mohr yes marlin
22:25 rue_mohr ramps
22:25 Tom_itx i got mine stepping steppers
22:26 rue_mohr ok
22:26 rue_mohr got the heater going
22:26 Tom_itx i got no heater
22:26 rue_mohr havn't built the new calib table for the temp sensor
22:26 Tom_itx no need, it was 72f today
22:26 Tom_itx in NOVEMBER!
22:27 rue_mohr I dont know f
22:27 Tom_itx but we figured out how to do the table now
22:27 rue_mohr yes
22:27 Tom_itx think summer temps
22:27 rue_mohr I need to measure 0/100c, calc beta, and build the table
22:27 Tom_itx oh you don't have a data sheet on it
22:28 rue_mohr nope
22:28 rue_mohr but its easy now
22:28 rue_mohr I know how the numebrs work
22:29 Tom_itx did you see the .py that does their format for you?
22:29 Tom_itx so you don't have to edit it
22:30 rue_mohr havn't done that yet, I'll get the values first
22:30 Tom_itx i think i'll hook up a regular encoder just to see what their menu looks like
22:30 Tom_itx if i can hold it steady enough
22:30 rue_mohr hmm
22:30 rue_mohr tear apart a mouse
22:31 rue_mohr do you have an old BUSMOUSE?
22:31 Tom_itx i wonder if i have a mechanical mouse
22:31 rue_mohr they output the quadrature directly in ttl levels
22:31 Tom_itx hmm
22:31 rue_mohr early optical mice have quadrature outputs on them
22:31 Tom_itx yeah
22:32 Tom_itx this encoder is only 4 wires away though
22:32 e_mohr sh
22:32 Tom_itx i'm gettin lazy and kinda unmotivated
22:33 Tom_itx i need to be able to see the end of something before i start now
22:33 rue_mohr you need to forget about the end, and just enjoy putzing
22:34 Tom_itx i need to see a purpose in it now
22:34 rue_mohr its not the target, the target is just an extra bonus, having a good time putzing is the real joy
22:34 rue_mohr you started to like it cause doing it was fun
22:35 orlok http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Prusa-Air-V2-ABS-Plastics-metric-Kit-and-lm8uu-linear-bearings-reprap-3D-printer-/321021364440?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item4abe5d48d8
22:36 rue_mohr thats almost what I paid for what I have so far
22:36 Tom_itx orlok, you gonna build one?
22:36 rue_mohr and I have 2kg of plastic
22:36 orlok Tom_itx: yeah, GF keeps asking when we will get one
22:36 Tom_itx must be nice to have support
22:36 orlok Theres another mob that sells the whole thing except for power supply for $500ish
22:37 rue_mohr 608 bearsings are skateboard bearings, dont pay more than $1 ea for them
22:37 orlok also, she decided on the house we bought without me seeing it
22:37 orlok so i think she owes me one
22:37 rue_mohr the 2560 board is about $20-$30
22:37 Tom_itx so does she wear the pants?
22:38 orlok no, but i trust her judgement
22:38 rue_mohr perspex = shatter
22:38 Tom_itx yeah it could
22:39 Tom_itx unless it's lexan
22:39 orlok its perspex
22:39 orlok but what am i going to do thats going to shatter it?
22:39 orlok its just a frame, not a windscreen
22:39 Tom_itx orlok, have trif print you one
22:39 rue_mohr plexiglass (perspex) cracks and breaks easy
22:40 rue_mohr mines not finished, so I'm limiting my comments
22:40 orlok Tom_itx: i was looking at buying all of the bits in one hit/from one place, he's out of stock of a fair few it seems
22:40 rue_mohr the "hot end" is ~$100
22:40 Tom_itx mine's not started so i can say what i want :D
22:41 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/reprap/p1040479.jpg I'm interested to see how mine will work out
22:41 Tom_itx i've been hangin out in there so if i ever do make one i won't feel like a noob doing it
22:41 Tom_itx the rostock intrigued me
22:42 rue_mohr Tom_itx, me and jester pushed some plastic thru it last weekend
22:42 Tom_itx but they say it's a pita to get right
22:42 rue_mohr it leaks :)
22:42 rue_mohr but its easy to fix
22:42 Tom_itx leaks where it's not supposed to?
22:42 rue_mohr yea, plastic commin out thru the threads
22:42 Tom_itx you can have my tip if you want it
22:42 rue_mohr I didn't not expect that
22:42 rue_mohr no, I can put more heatproof silicone into it
22:43 rue_mohr the other joint sealed good
22:43 Tom_itx the bottom of the threads needs a flat to seal against, not the threads
22:43 Tom_itx like a butt joint
22:43 rue_mohr yea
22:43 rue_mohr it does
22:43 rue_mohr its easy to put some silicone in there to seal it
22:44 Tom_itx higher melting point?
22:44 rue_mohr the red stuff
22:44 rue_mohr no problem with the heat
22:44 Tom_itx oh btw, keep your plastic from absorbing moisture
22:44 rue_mohr so I hear
22:45 rue_mohr PLA
22:45 Tom_itx i installed pronterface and tried it
22:45 Tom_itx that's the way to go for the front end
22:45 rue_mohr its better under linux
22:45 Tom_itx haven't tried it there yet
22:45 rue_mohr more graphs/buttons
22:45 Tom_itx i got the arduino stuff in linux
22:45 rue_mohr dunno why its differtnt
22:46 rue_mohr the arduino stuff is better under win, so far
22:46 Tom_itx i put it all on this old itx the other day
22:47 Tom_itx my 4hr nap is coming due..
22:48 rue_mohr I'm losing my grip on conciousness
22:55 Tom_itx i'm out
23:18 TELunus|2 If I start a DC motor with a small inertial load, will the torque transmited through the shaft initialy be the stall torque, or will it have to increase over time because of coil induction, meaning that by the time it would reach stall torque the motor has non zero rotational velocity?
23:19 rue_mohr applied constant voltage or current?
23:20 TELunus|2 voltage.