#robotics Logs
Nov 18 2012
#robotics Calendar
11:03 home rue_mohr: I have no need for a UPS
11:03 home rue_mohr: do you know why?
11:04 ace4016 because batteries?
11:16 home ace4016: No, but do you know why?
11:16 ace4016 nope
11:42 rue_mohr you cant afford electricity int eh first place?
11:43 ace4016 lol
11:44 Tom_itx he own's his own nuclear reactor
11:45 rue_mohr keeps it in the basememt?
11:46 Tom_itx why is it so dead here?
11:46 rue_mohr I was just thinking yesterday that maybe I should make up a small fusion reactor
11:46 Tom_itx rue_mohr, did you have class yesterday?
11:46 Tom_itx i forgot to come
11:46 rue_mohr yes
11:46 rue_mohr power was out for 3/4 of it
11:46 Tom_itx what did i miss?
11:47 rue_mohr I was gonna go over transistor stuff, but we broke out some of the batteries and an inverter and kept going
11:47 rue_mohr we were good till we needed to drill a hole
11:47 rue_mohr then the power came back
11:47 Tom_itx hand drill
11:47 rue_mohr we made up an air supply system for the air muscles on his rubix cube solver
11:47 rue_mohr I dont have any
11:48 Tom_itx the kind with the cam in the handle you push up and down
11:48 rue_mohr yes, I know, dont have any
12:15 rue_mohr its interesting to write code that is almost literally rewriting the next instruction
12:16 Tom_itx why are you using brainf...?
12:17 Tom_itx i've heard of it but know nothing about it
12:18 Tom_itx do you have any of those little hand encoders?
12:18 Tom_itx like for a rotary switch
12:18 Tom_itx digital volume control etc
12:19 rue_mohr no this is a little instruction set I'v made up
12:19 rue_mohr yes, what about them?
12:19 Tom_itx i need to find one
12:20 Tom_itx or fix the code for buttons
12:20 rue_mohr / output the negitive of the value after the program
12:20 rue_mohr 4 1 // move the X pointer to point at -48 (subtract 1)
12:20 rue_mohr 7 // transfer value pointed at to A
12:20 rue_mohr 4 7 // move the X pointer to point at paramiter of subtract instruction (subtract 7)
12:20 rue_mohr 8 // write value of A to memory at X
12:20 rue_mohr 9 0 // A = 0
12:20 rue_mohr 10 0 // subtract 0 from A (modified paramiter)
12:20 rue_mohr 4 -5 // move X pointer forward 5 to point to output paramiter
12:20 rue_mohr 8 // save value over output paramiter
12:21 rue_mohr 2 0 // output 0 (modified command)
12:21 rue_mohr 15 // halt
12:21 rue_mohr -48 // value (data)
12:23 rue_mohr sweet, it works
12:23 rue_mohr "fix the code for buttons"?
12:24 rue_mohr they are just grey code out
12:33 Tom_itx not sure the logic pattern of grey code without looking
12:54 rue_mohr 00
12:54 rue_mohr 01
12:54 rue_mohr 11
12:54 rue_mohr 10
12:54 rue_mohr 00
12:58 Tom_itx how would you do that with 1 button?
12:58 Tom_itx or maybe 2 for up and down
13:04 Tom_itx would a d flip flop work as input for that?
13:04 Tom_itx using a button to toggle it
13:04 Tom_itx and maybe one for down
13:04 Tom_itx i guess you wouldn't need down, just scroll thru the list and back to the top
14:30 rue_mohr so, hmm I have a line on a new carb, I'm wondering if I should keep beating the old one trying to get it to work right or get the new one
14:30 rue_mohr I suppose the indecision is my worst foe
14:31 Tom_itx i never could get mine to idle right
14:31 Tom_itx it kept surging
14:31 Tom_itx even after cleaning etc
14:31 Tom_itx i got a deal on a new gen so i traded it for an OHV engine one
14:32 Tom_itx run it dry before storing
14:34 rue_mohr running mine dry caused all the carb gaskets to dry out
14:34 rue_mohr they leak and it wont run without flooding out
14:35 Tom_itx i run mine occasionally
14:35 rue_mohr I was every 2 weeks
14:35 rue_mohr the adjustment times to get it running right started at 5 mins and kept doubling
14:35 Tom_itx it's wearing out
14:36 rue_mohr last I spent 2 hours on it and gve up
14:36 rue_mohr I have a line on a new carb
14:36 Tom_itx compression etc i bet are getting lower
14:36 rue_mohr no, compression is good
14:36 Tom_itx air leaks
14:36 rue_mohr carb is a pain in the ass
14:37 Tom_itx something you use that much, i'd consider investing in a new one
14:37 Tom_itx i traded mine and got a good deal on it
14:37 Tom_itx iirc, 5500w 8000 surge
14:38 rue_mohr I can get a 8kw, but its $2k
14:38 Tom_itx it's not 8k
14:38 rue_mohr it would eat more fuel than my 4kw
14:38 rue_mohr its wholesale
14:38 Tom_itx maybe
14:39 Tom_itx well don't get more than you need
14:39 rue_mohr tho yes, alot of the ratings are crap
14:39 Tom_itx i went with the OHV engine because they're better
14:39 Tom_itx yeah but it's a comparison
14:42 rue_mohr did I tell you about the 3kw I got?
14:42 rue_mohr $100?
14:43 rue_mohr (used)
14:43 Tom_itx good stuff
14:43 rue_mohr no
14:43 Tom_itx not the one you're fixing the carb on?
14:43 rue_mohr the head on it says max output 2.8kw, continious 2.6kw
14:44 Tom_itx mine has saved me several times
14:44 rue_mohr and its only got 1 output circuit good for about 15A
14:44 rue_mohr so its really not good for more than 1400W
14:44 Tom_itx i think mine does 220v
14:44 rue_mohr yes, the 240V output is where they get the rating
14:44 Tom_itx i have an adapter for my welder for it but i don't think i've ever used it
14:45 Tom_itx i tried it once just to see
14:45 rue_mohr I have an 8kva "online" ups I was gonna use to clean the power, it rejects the gen power
14:45 Tom_itx needs cleaner ac
14:45 rue_mohr but it ran the house off its 60% capacity batteries for a good minute
14:50 Tom_itx wanna send me a rotary switch?
14:50 rue_mohr grey/.
14:50 rue_mohr ?
14:50 Tom_itx i wonder what it would take to emulate one with logic
14:50 Tom_itx i can get a pn for it
14:50 Tom_itx the one they use
14:51 rue_mohr you could us a tiny13
14:51 rue_mohr you want to do one button control for a volume or soemthing
14:51 rue_mohr use one of the encoder motors from an hp printer
14:51 Tom_itx wonder if a t10 would work
14:51 rue_mohr yes, thats what I meant
14:51 rue_mohr :)
14:52 rue_mohr sweet, my new temp charting code is offsetting the liens properly
14:52 Tom_itx 2 in, 2 out
14:52 Tom_itx but i still need a 'select' input
14:52 Tom_itx that could be just a separate button
14:52 Tom_itx so 3 buttons
14:52 rue_mohr ?
14:52 Tom_itx up and down and select
14:52 rue_mohr I'm not so sure I know what your talking about
14:52 Tom_itx is what i did on my menu thingy
14:52 Tom_itx i'm not so sure i do either
14:53 rue_mohr ah, use an adc channel
14:53 rue_mohr 3 buttons, 3 resistors, 3 lines out
14:53 rue_mohr (so 1 line in)
14:53 Tom_itx single button to the t10 would be ok
14:53 Tom_itx with 2 outputs for the grey code
14:53 e_mohr gives a conused look to
14:53 Tom_itx it would just count up
14:54 rue_mohr I think I need a diagram
14:54 Tom_itx 00
14:54 Tom_itx 01
14:54 Tom_itx 10
14:54 Tom_itx 11
14:54 rue_mohr I went and worked yesterday
14:54 Tom_itx right?
14:54 rue_mohr I ahve to go grocery shopping
14:54 rue_mohr for grey yes, one bit changes at a time
14:54 rue_mohr you have some encoder motors around
14:54 rue_mohr I know you do
14:54 Tom_itx i'll find the switch and see what it is
14:54 rue_mohr the geared ones
14:55 Tom_itx i do but they'd be pretty fine for a switch
14:55 rue_mohr we all bought cause we were gonna do the group project that never happened
14:55 rue_mohr !assist sdf
14:55 Tom_itx i've got plenty of encoders
14:55 rue_mohr ah, have to reboot that too
14:55 Tom_itx they're all too fine for a switch
14:56 rue_mohr ugh, my fet havn't warmed up from the last trip out there
14:56 Tom_itx put the floor in your heat loop
14:58 Tom_itx http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ALPS/EC11E15244B2/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugMG2RDp45gzKy3E%252bJw2bg9wyx%252blVW1GEpKn%2fqxa66ihw%3d%3d
14:58 Tom_itx that's the one they use
15:02 Tom_itx http://www.alps.com/products/WebObjects/catalog.woa/E/HTML/Encoder/Incremental/EC11/EC11E15244B2.html
15:02 Tom_itx looks like quadrature output
15:25 rue_mohr quadrature is grey
15:39 Tom_itx so the logic out can't just be opposite on the 2 pins
16:15 rue_mohr no
16:16 Tom_itx just 4 states?
16:16 Tom_itx 00,01,10,11
16:17 Tom_itx that doesn't let them overlap though
16:17 rue_mohr no
16:17 rue_mohr thats not right
16:17 rue_mohr only change 1 bit at a time
16:17 rue_mohr 00 01 11 10
16:17 Tom_itx k
16:17 Tom_itx 0,1,3,2
16:18 rue_mohr yup
16:18 rue_mohr in base 3 it would be 0, 1, 10, 2
16:19 rue_mohr ;)
16:19 Tom_itx it would be easier to get a rotary switch
16:19 rue_mohr as opposed to?
16:19 Tom_itx writing the code, making a board and wiring it all up
16:20 rue_mohr your getting old
16:20 Tom_itx i really lack motivation lately
16:20 Tom_itx not as old as you
16:20 KimLaroux welcome to the club
16:20 rue_mohr how are you gonna have fun putzing if you pass up projects like this
16:21 rue_mohr this could entertain you for hours of your life
16:21 Tom_itx t10 only has int0
16:21 rue_mohr in north america, thats worth quite a bit
16:21 Tom_itx no int1
16:21 Tom_itx and pinchange fires on inputs and outputs
16:21 rue_mohr what are you trying to convert it to?
16:22 Tom_itx i was thinking of 2 buttons
16:22 Tom_itx one to count up and one to count down
16:22 rue_mohr up down and select
16:22 rue_mohr ok
16:22 Tom_itx and keep the select separate from the avr entirely
16:22 Tom_itx it wouldn't matter
16:22 rue_mohr two buttons on resistors forming a voltage divider into an adc pin, with the two quadrature outputs out
16:22 Tom_itx so whatever state the lcd showed is what you got selected
16:23 Tom_itx i have enough pins for it
16:23 Tom_itx i'd just have to ignore the outputs in the interrupt
16:23 Tom_itx and it's not happening at the speed of light, it's a switch
16:23 Tom_itx so it would be fine
16:27 rue_mohr I think I could show you how to make it digitally with a 7474 and a few diodes
16:27 rue_mohr but my head is fogging up again
16:27 rue_mohr getting sleepy
16:27 rue_mohr (damnit)
16:27 Tom_itx take a nap
16:28 Tom_itx i think i'm gonna
16:28 rue_mohr I dont want to, I want to play in the shop and make things
16:28 rue_mohr (damnit)
16:32 rue_mohr In fresh water, sound travels at about 1497 m/s
16:32 rue_mohr so, in 1 ns,
16:33 rue_mohr .0015mm
16:33 rue_mohr ok
16:34 rue_mohr so, to do sonar thru flesh really shouldn't be that hard
16:34 rue_mohr 66ns resolution should be just fine
16:35 rue_mohr 15Mhz
16:36 rue_mohr I wonder if the scope could see the reflections
16:36 rue_mohr ooo wind
16:36 e_mohr goes to work on
18:43 rue_shop3 I rebuilt the carb again
18:44 rue_shop3 second pull it pretended it was new
18:44 rue_shop3 so I load tested it and tuned it, and put the other one within short reach
18:45 rue_shop3 I did have to makea new needle valve for it
18:46 rue_shop3 and install a new tensioner spring on the throttle linkage
18:48 Tom_itx i suppose the goal for this evening could be to wire up a lcd to the 2560
18:55 Tom_itx ok i need an lcd pinout
19:06 Tom_itx RW can go to 5v right?
19:07 Tom_itx so i need D4..7, E, RW, RS, Gnd, +5v
19:07 rue_mohr I think they only write
19:07 rue_mohr in which case you would want ground, I thinkg
19:07 Tom_itx so it could be tied high
19:07 rue_mohr unless its /w
19:08 Tom_itx oh you're right
19:08 Tom_itx gnd to it
19:08 Tom_itx is write
19:08 Tom_itx so tie that to pin 1
19:08 m_itx looks at the marlin pin
19:12 rue_mohr 2 weeks no ebay items have arrived
19:12 rue_mohr not one
19:13 rue_mohr I'm trhinking I should ask for one with tracking to see where they are going
19:42 Tom_itx does contrast generally go to 5v on newer displays now?
20:46 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/reprap/lcd1.jpg
20:46 Tom_itx ok that was easy enough
20:47 Tom_itx now to figure out the button logic
20:50 ace4016 what are you making?
20:51 Tom_itx just messin around right now
20:51 rue_mohr usually full contrast is grounded Vc
20:54 Tom_itx all my 20 x 4 require negative bias
20:54 Tom_itx and i don't feel like messin with it atm
20:55 rue_mohr they only need -3V
20:56 rue_mohr 555 timer, capacitor, diode
20:56 ace4016 heh
20:56 rue_mohr really low current
20:56 Tom_itx i got those negative thingie chips
20:56 rue_mohr oh yea
20:56 rue_mohr max232
20:56 Tom_itx i just 7447?
20:56 Tom_itx no
20:56 Tom_itx not max
20:56 Tom_itx something else
20:56 Tom_itx 7660
20:56 Tom_itx maybe
20:56 Tom_itx ?
20:56 Tom_itx hell i don't remember
20:57 rue_mohr whats our motivation problem?
20:57 Tom_itx who knows
20:57 rue_mohr I'm going to get out of this keyboard, clean the kittylitter box, and sit in my shop till bedtime
20:57 Tom_itx i could rip one off an old bot
20:57 Tom_itx it's all ready to go
20:57 rue_mohr generic boards
20:57 rue_mohr building blocks
20:58 Tom_itx i don't know if i even have the schematic for that board i made anymore
21:19 rue_shop3 555
21:19 rue_shop3 pin 3 thru series cap
21:19 rue_shop3 far side of cap to anodeof diode to ground
21:20 rue_shop3 second diode, cathode
21:20 rue_shop3 anode of that, to capto ground
21:20 rue_shop3 there you have -4V
21:20 rue_shop3 555 is otherwise the usual deal
21:20 rue_shop3 2 to 6
21:20 rue_shop3 4 to 8
21:20 rue_shop3 cap between 1 and 2
21:20 rue_shop3 resistor between 6 and 7
21:20 rue_shop3 resistor between 7 and 8
21:21 Tom_itx rue_shop3, i think if i go with the 4 line i'll get one of those nice blue/white ones
21:22 home 555 timer
21:22 home ooooh
21:22 home meltingclover: Hello!
21:22 Tom_itx this 2 line will work just fine for now
21:23 meltingclover hello!
21:23 Tom_itx rue_shop3, i can connect to pronterface and watch it send the stuff to idle or sleep after a bit
21:23 Jak_o_Shadows hi
21:26 meltingclover This is my first time on IRC. I am trying to figure out which channels to join based on my interests. How is this one?
21:26 home meltingclover: It's a good one
21:27 home meltingclover: I find what the guys usually talk about is a bit ..difficult and weird at times
21:27 KimLaroux This channel is all about siting back and enjoying the show
21:27 home meltingclover: What are your interests though?
21:27 meltingclover cool
21:27 home KimLaroux: Yes, there are those moments....and its sad :/
21:27 Tom_itx meltingclover what are your interests?
21:28 KimLaroux home, I usually enjoy the show while I'm working on my projects
21:28 meltingclover I am a computer science student, so my interests include various programming languages
21:28 Tom_itx also #avr may interest you
21:28 KimLaroux Keeps me entertained while my solder iron is busy
21:28 Tom_itx :)
21:29 home meltingclover: take a look at ##programming
21:29 home meltingclover: they are a very interesting bunch...
21:29 meltingclover cool, thanks
21:29 meltingclover I have always wanted to get into robotics, too
21:30 Tom_itx if you have questions sometimes you ask and wait
21:30 Tom_itx but leaving you will never get an answer
21:30 meltingclover I have taken a machine learning class and am currently in an AI class. Are there discussions here about those things?
21:30 ace4016 soemtimes
21:30 home barely :D
21:31 home meltingclover: might find a forum to be a much nicer place to be :P
21:31 ace4016 and people have various levels of understanding about the various areas
21:31 home IRC is chaotic, if not managed, or if there are not people with the right answers...
21:31 home but for discussions, IRC is neat!
21:31 home and some other cool stuff
21:31 meltingclover Thank you for the information, home!
21:32 home you gotta invest some time to understand it, but it can be a big waste of time!
21:32 home if you are a person that is time constrained, IRC just might be or not be what you are looking for
21:33 rue_shop3 erm
21:33 home I primarily use it to get in touch with the people that manage my ISP and Software
21:33 home or stuff that people know about...
21:33 meltingclover that's interesting
21:33 home meltingclover: anyway, robotics discussion away....
21:33 home gotta get back to studying >.>
21:33 meltingclover Okay. What kind of robotics projects have you guys done?
21:34 Tom_itx not much lately
21:34 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/index.php
21:34 home I am just designing a robotish
21:34 home robot*
21:35 rue_shop3 wildmage graduated, almost never to be seen again, pepsi obtained brain damage from what he was sniffing, rifraf moved into the mountians and decided to sell roofing, kat... went of the deep end...
21:35 ace4016 few years ago i worked on a robot; had a camera system and all
21:35 Tom_itx rue_shop3, who's next?
21:35 rue_shop3 were running out of people who...
21:35 rue_shop3 its either me or you
21:35 ace4016 i'm helping some college students create a robot right now
21:35 rue_shop3 well pull them in
21:36 ace4016 i have some stellaris launchpads i want to mess around with
21:36 rue_shop3 not that collage students know anything, but they might be fun to help
21:36 ace4016 so...i might be picking up some projects soon
21:37 home The problem with this channel is that its not moderated too well
21:37 ace4016 most college kids aren't interested in doing things with their major while in college
21:37 home and has no site with it..
21:37 ace4016 first few meetings, there are lots of people; lately it's only been 3...
21:37 home ace4016: That's how it is
21:37 meltingclover college students are motivated by free food
21:37 home you gotta keep people's attention, and that is extremely hard.
21:37 home meltingclover: Yes +1
21:38 home anyone is motivated by free food
21:38 ace4016 yea, there are some boring bits though that you kind of have to teach or show...
21:38 rue_shop3 esp, when at best, I'm only on for 4 hours a day
21:38 ace4016 oh well
21:38 home rue_shop3: There are a bunch of people that are interested in robotics, all over.
21:38 rue_shop3 no, there are no borring bits you have to learn first
21:38 ace4016 most people also are terrible at their jobs, so i guess it is to be expected
21:39 home rue_shop3: Especially on Freenode..
21:39 rue_shop3 you can make things from every bit
21:39 home Nothing is boring, to be honest
21:39 home just time consuming
21:39 home You have to spend time to get out of something...
21:39 ace4016 most kiddies are of the instant gratification type
21:40 home Yeah, and it's sad
21:40 home I have a shitload of projects sitting at home
21:40 home and I don't have the time to do it
21:40 home yesterday I was designing something, so thats good
21:40 home testing freecad when I get some time...and also try to design stuff on Inventor..
21:41 home Haven't had time to do any coding, or actual school work...
21:41 meltingclover home: what are the goals of some of your projects?
21:41 home Doesn't help that I played video games over the weekened..
21:41 home meltingclover: Uhm, one of them is doing vision processing with an Ethernet Camera, and a RPI
21:41 home meltingclover: to track a square or a circle
21:41 theBear channel based websites are shit
21:42 home another one is learning more about the Kinect and the infrared system..
21:42 home theBear: Woah, hold on..
21:42 theBear and the moderation here is exemplary... seldom an argument, idiots banned for life...
21:42 home theBear: you have a valid argument there, but it's debatable
21:42 theBear i have a valid opinion, and nothing can change it
21:42 home I haven't had time to do any automation though
21:42 home been stealing motors, here and there..but I wish I could make or find a stepper driver or some sort of motor controllers
21:43 home even servos would be nice...
21:43 home Also gotta learn how to solder and desolder..
21:43 Tom_itx theBear :)
21:43 theBear :)
21:43 meltingclover home: soldering is fun!
21:43 home yeah, but I only got a soldering iron, and no solder or paste, and etc
21:44 Tom_itx home, you haven't been here to meet some of the bad ones
21:44 home theos: Hi
21:44 theBear soldering is important... tho kinda hard without solder
21:44 home Tom_itx: reallly...
21:44 orlok home: also, braid and/or a sucker
21:44 theos hi home
21:45 orlok home: i have never used paste - i think its more needed for surface mount, but can be handy other times too
21:45 Tom_itx rue_shop3, what have you in the way of those little encoders?
21:45 Tom_itx wanna trade for something?
21:45 Jak_o_Shadows Braid is better for smaller blobs, sucker is better for bigger stuff
21:45 Tom_itx seems easier just to get one of those
21:45 Tom_itx i may have a radio with one but i hate to tear it apart
21:45 home I have a lot of things I want to do, and they are little hacks
21:48 home Most of the time people are just discussing, and don't really take time to put down their ideas
21:48 home and that is bad...
21:48 home There is a lot of beautiful documentation out there, and tons of resources to help you..
21:49 home and I have an idea of what I want to do thanks to those being available, it's just that not being able to manage your time sucks
21:49 home anyway, I better get off
22:33 rue_shop3 hmm
22:33 rue_shop3 Tom_itx, I dont have any with push
22:34 rue_shop3 I think I'm using up the last of the M32 experimenter baords
22:34 rue_shop3 damn you and your missing corner hole :)
22:34 Tom_itx i could use a separate button for push
22:35 Tom_itx maybe i have a couple more i could send you
22:35 Tom_itx i'd have to look
22:36 rue_shop3 I have some from an ole mouse, but their brushed
22:37 Tom_itx i've got 2 left if you want em
22:37 rue_shop3 I still have a bunch of mine etched
22:37 rue_shop3 I have to mod yours a lot
22:37 Tom_itx k
22:38 Tom_itx well they're here
22:38 rue_shop3 I was looking at the "2008" and chuckling
22:38 Tom_itx heh yeah
22:39 Tom_itx i have one assembled over there -->
22:41 rue_shop3 !time
22:41 rue_shop3 !time
22:41 rue_shop3 erp
22:41 Tom_itx better wake him up first
22:42 rue_shop3 !time
22:42 rue_shop3 !time
22:42 tobbor My watch says its 08:32PM Sun Nov 18 2012
22:42 rue_shop3 I'm supposed to run all that data thru an AI
22:54 rue_shop3 Tom_itx, do you need infinite turns?
22:54 rue_shop3 would 300 degrees work?
22:56 rue_shop3 drat, I think I threw out a stereo with one of those 2 weeks ago
23:00 rue_shop3 tom was it altera fpga's you were doing?
23:19 Tom_itx i had both
23:19 Tom_itx the experimenter was xilinx
23:19 rue_mohr hmm
23:19 rue_mohr have some f those around too
23:19 Tom_itx long as i can select with it is all that matters i think
23:20 Tom_itx i'll figure something out
23:20 Tom_itx headin to sleep here.. early day tomorrow
23:20 rue_mohr ah, so pot code with quadrature out wouldn't help
23:24 rue_mohr http://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-10-x-22-metal-lathe-2587
23:24 rue_mohr what do you think the overall length is?
23:28 rue_mohr 50" x 23" x 19"
23:28 rue_mohr hmm over 4' long
23:30 rue_mohr http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=279&ID=2368
23:30 rue_mohr I think that ones sufficient for anything normal