#robotics Logs

Nov 12 2012

00:00 orlok it has a flat roof i think
00:00 dumbass rue's whole workshop is flat roof, my house has a 24x32 center flat portion
00:00 orlok if not i will make it flat
00:01 dumbass pitch it a lil to ensure water runoff
00:01 dumbass rue's rain rus off th eback, mine runs to two drains, and if they stop up, then off the back
00:01 orlok the big shed roof is a inverted V with a gentle slope
00:01 orlok butted up to the rear of that is the workshop
00:02 orlok the workshop roof slopes off towards the rear very slightly i think, for water runoff
00:02 rue_mohr the shop roof has a 1/12 pitch or soemthing silly
00:02 mbass
00:02 orlok and i think is slightly lower than the garage roof
00:02 dumbass marshmellows
00:02 orlok i want to add a swuare to the top of the workshop on one side, that levels the roof and acts as a base for the dome
00:03 orlok and also brings it up to the level of the garage roof
00:03 dumbass a swuare?
00:03 orlok square
00:03 dumbass nono, leave the pitch for water control, level the scopebase with adjustable marshmellows
00:04 orlok heh
00:05 dumbass as much as water on the roof sounds good, you don't want an uncontrolled pool up there, not with your building under it where it can get flooded ina roof leak
00:05 orlok ok, base of the dome will be round as to not have any protruding flat bits for water to collect on
00:05 orlok yup
00:05 orlok so circle rather than square
00:06 dumbass lumber is naturally not round once it comes out of the factory
00:07 dumbass afk
00:07 orlok i will need to make a ring for the dome to rotate on
00:10 rue_mohr !assist images/p1040720-pumpkin.jpg
00:10 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1040720-pumpkin.jpg
00:12 Jak_o_Shadows how do you remember a url like that/
00:16 TELunus|2 Pretty sure the URL corresponds to a filesystem he has direct acces to. So he just looks up where the file is and then gets tobbor to assist with the http: and such.
01:07 rue_mohr tobbor just prepends the junk for me
01:08 rue_mohr !seen a fly wearing boots
01:08 tobbor I have never seen a fly wearing boots
01:08 rue_mohr !assist 404
01:08 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/404
01:10 rue_mohr kat, could I request you makea youtube video for me?
01:11 rue_mohr Id like to see a short vid of the grid on one of the HP scoped over the course of a brigtness sweep
01:15 dumbass make a video for you?! marshmellows!
01:16 dumbass hell, you talked me out of doing any projects from now on
01:17 dumbass from pink string on a pcb driller so i don't have THAT any more, to making a psu box while you talked about marshmellows, why would i do a project again?
01:18 dumbass i got drill motor and 100 bits for diff pcb holes and slots, and nothing to mount it on any more
01:19 dumbass i took my site down weeks ago, why would i make you a video?
02:20 rue_mohr *sigh*
02:24 dumbass ?
02:44 dumbass it doesn't matter to you, does it?
03:04 rue_mohr yes, your a maker, I hate to see the things of a maker destroyed
03:04 rue_mohr but I'v told yo that
03:09 dumbass and i recently quit making things, period
03:09 dumbass when even you make fun of my making, i won't make any more
03:10 dumbass heck, right now i am looking for that 100 gigs of data i dl'd the other month, to delete it
03:12 dumbass it would be really helpful if winxpee logged the data of a dir same as a file, but M$ doesn't believing in keeping the count of files in a dir, or it's size
03:52 Jak_o_Shadows I dont' particurly like MS's file systems
04:05 intranick all the square shit in windows 8 makes it look like windows 3.1
04:08 Skwint I've reconfigured my windows 7 to look windows98 style square instead of big fat circle stuff
04:08 Skwint because it wastes less screen space that way
04:09 Skwint wasting screen space is clearly not a concern in the windows 8 design
04:09 Skwint maybe they just wanted it to look like "My First Computer" from mothercare?
04:10 Jak_o_Shadows I put the taskbar to the top, and make it thinner as well
04:10 Skwint taskbar on the side for me - widescreen monitor and tall thin source code
04:11 Skwint I highly recommend it
04:12 Jak_o_Shadows haha, i only have a 19" screen.
04:15 Jak_o_Shadows So, is a universal motor an appropritate choice for a robot? How much power would one typically use? How do you connect it?
04:27 Triffid_Hunter Jak_o_Shadows: no, universal motors not good for robots
04:28 Jak_o_Shadows righto, i'll have to find myself a good power supply for this drill motor / motor of a similar size to a drill motor
04:28 Jak_o_Shadows thank
04:28 Triffid_Hunter Jak_o_Shadows: power depends entirely on the winding configuration. they can technically run from DC but frequently the core is made of materials that will be magnetised
04:28 Triffid_Hunter Jak_o_Shadows: so if it's designed for AC, you need to drive it with AC
04:44 Skwint why is a universal motor not a good choice?
05:01 Triffid_Hunter Skwint: I for one am not keen on having mains voltages on a robot
05:02 Jak_o_Shadows Why cant' i just run DC through the outside laminated iron, and DC through the commutator?
05:02 Jak_o_Shadows Or don't electromagnets work like that (for the DC through the outside laminated iron)
05:02 Triffid_Hunter Jak_o_Shadows: they work but DC will magnetise the core material and vastly reduce the efficiency if it's designed for AC
05:05 Jak_o_Shadows ah, i think i sort of understand that. As far as i can tell, the the core looks bog-standard DC, while the outside lacks magnets.
05:10 Triffid_Hunter Jak_o_Shadows: the universal motor design itself can work fine at DC, however specific motors may not.. and usually they're the type that don't much like DC
05:11 Triffid_Hunter Jak_o_Shadows: universal motors are famously used in food mixers, blenders, vacuum cleaners, dremels, etc
05:35 Skwint OK - I agree that an AC motor is probably not appropriate for most robots#
07:06 Centauri Morning Triffid_Hunter
07:07 Centauri well morning for me, :)
07:39 nerio Our 1856 Erard grand piano just returned from restoration.
07:39 nerio It took restorers nearly 12 months to complete the work.
09:37 -holmes.freenode.net:#robotics- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
12:21 H_Miki Hi! I'm looking for teammates located in the USA, starting kickstarter.com projects. If you are interested, meet at #kickstarter channel.
12:32 rue_mohr there is a kickstarter channel?
12:35 ace4016 interesting...
12:36 ace4016 it doesn't look like the official kickstarter channel, just one targetted at kick starters
12:37 Skwint http://www.firebox.com/product/5609/MaKey-MaKey?via=chart
12:37 Skwint I dont want that - I could make that
12:38 Skwint but it's a similar line to what I do want, which is a present I can give two little kids that encourages ... making ... rather than passively using
12:38 Skwint any suggestions?
12:39 ace4016 well, what would you like them to make?
12:39 dumbass yeas: don't bring them in here if you wanna encourage making
12:39 ace4016 programs utilizing it, or the actual button thing?
12:41 smeding give them lego
12:41 smeding lego is fucking amazing
12:50 Skwint lego is a good fallback, yes
12:50 Skwint if all else fails, lego it will be!
12:50 Skwint but lego isn't weird enough - anything from me is usually weird
13:05 rue_mohr meccano
13:06 rue_mohr how old are the kids?
13:21 smeding i guess lego is too mainstream for you
13:21 smeding god damn hipsters
13:56 Skwint they are 8 going on 12 and 6 going on 2
13:57 Skwint mainstream isn't the issue, I just like things I give them to be things noone else would have thought of (or preferably, heard of)
13:58 smeding so what you're saying is mainstream isn't the issue but mainstream /is/ the issue
14:56 wint sh
15:08 dumbass if they know programming, and like it, give them a pile of Pi boards and a kit to build a baby Watson
15:09 dumbass if they don't like the Pi pile, send it to me
15:14 Skwint heh
15:15 Skwint that was the advice I saw about lego mindstorms too - buy it for yourself and play with it where they can join in
15:18 dumbass "the $25 Pi can do anything a $600 cell phone can do, except make a phone call"
15:28 TELunus Can you figure out a way to connect a sim card and antenna to it?
15:28 dumbass hot glue
15:28 dumbass large industrial press
15:29 dumbass i don't know that i'd even try, i think i'd install a VOiP app and wifi
15:29 dumbass why bother with the telcos at all?
15:33 dumbass !ping
15:35 TELunus Is there a name for this logical operator:
15:36 dumbass ?
15:36 dumbass NULL ?
15:37 dumbass VOID ?
15:40 mbass throws TELunus a bone : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_symbols
15:40 TELunus Wouldn't that be: 0->0, 01->0, 10->0, 11->0?
15:40 dumbass i'll bet none of the symbols can be sent on irc
15:43 TELunus well, normally I don't use symbols for logical operators. I just use names.
15:43 dumbass ok, the wikipedia page has operator pictures and their names
15:43 TELunus since most of the names are 3 or 4 letters you can pretty much use the name as a symbol.
15:43 dumbass i do AND i prefer it
15:44 dumbass but you said : <TELunus> Is there a name for this logical operator:
15:44 dumbass and you gave no symbol
15:44 TELunus ya, looks like it's called If A then B
15:45 TELunus nm, that's the other one I was looking for.
15:56 Centauri TELunus: Are you looking for the short hand? var = (c >= 3) ? a : b
16:00 TELunus I'm designing a CPU and I want to impliment all the bitwise logical operators in the instruciton set, and I wanted to know what I should call the assembly command for that.
16:03 Centauri Well, there isnt much at the ASM level AND, OR, XOR, NOT and bit shifting.. the rest is branch equal, branch not equal branch greater, etc
16:08 chris_99 using an FPGA TELunus?
16:14 TELunus Centauri, thats why I'll also have to specify new assembly language operations to go with my instruction set.
16:15 Centauri Ahh yes, and there are potentially many, I've seen ASM instruction for all kinds of CPUs from the old COP400 series to at least 32 bit
16:17 TELunus chris_99, at this point I'm just designing the behaivior, but depending on how big it ends up being it could be fun to get an FPGA and make one. Of course I dream of getting it made as it's own chip, but I will probably not be able to afford that for at least the next 50 years.
16:17 chris_99 FPGA seems like a decent way to do it cheaply i guess
16:17 TELunus Ya.
17:05 dumbass how fast will your cpu be? will you actually make it iin hardware?
17:07 dumbass there's a few people making 6502 variants, or adding new instructions onto 6502 systems
17:24 TELunus It will probably be really slow. I'm really just beging, and im doing it more for fun then to actually achive any thing. I also have no experience with this exept a university course that had us write a very simple CPU in VHDL.
17:24 dumbass there's a lot of NOP in the 6502 instruction set, those can be trapped and microcode issued for new instructions
17:24 dumbass in a way, that's like the transmeta were
17:33 home Hey guy
17:33 home hey guys
17:33 home what do you think of a calculator controlled robot?
17:34 Centauri calculator?
17:35 Jak_o_Shadows Graphics cal you mean?
17:36 Jak_o_Shadows I guess it could work.
17:37 smeding sounds like a weird self-imposed limitation
17:38 home http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hET3g3CWLlg&feature=plcp
17:38 home ^
17:38 home by usb though
17:39 home linux runs on that
17:39 Jak_o_Shadows home: Don't you have a RPi?
17:39 home I do
17:40 home Jak_o_Shadows: STOP reminding me to use it
17:40 home Jak_o_Shadows: Winter is the only time I will probably have
17:40 rue_mohr arg, it looks like I'm gonna make a brainf**k interperter...
17:40 TELunus rue: don't
17:41 TELunus Actually, it's easy to interpert, but don't bother because you shouldn't be writing in it.
17:54 rue_mohr I need to make one so I can make one thats a von-numan machine instead of a stanford
17:55 rue_mohr I need a simpel language capable of self modification
17:59 rue_mohr yesterday me and jester got the hot end of the reprap working, but couldn't get the arduino to issue and step commands to the motor
18:00 TELunus Does the language need to be simple? I'm working on a language that will be able to assign to it's functions.
18:00 rue_mohr self modifying, no write-and-load
18:03 TELunus No, functions are going to be variables of executable datatypes. You can assign a different set of instructions to them part way through your program.
18:03 TELunus As long as you keep the same interface, since that will be the type of the variable.
18:04 rue_mohr hmm
18:05 TELunus However it's going to be OOP, which I hear you hate.
18:05 rue_mohr yes, cant trace oop execution
18:05 rue_mohr then again, this will be almost impossable to folow anyhow
18:05 TELunus But it will be like C++ in that you can write it proceduraly if you like.
18:07 rue_mohr how far along are you?
18:25 Skwint if you make it possible to assign new values to member functions noone will be able to trace anything ever again
18:33 rue_mohr I like the idea of being able to make program building blocks as variables and string them togethor for execution
18:35 TELunus I think you should pretty much be able to write in it, there's just no compiler. Also some of the oop side of things needs to change. Also I haven't defined how to pass by refferance or create refferance variables yet.
18:40 any70466778 marshmellows
18:41 Tom_itx rubber duckies
18:42 Tom_itx kat, how have you progressed with the pancake motor i sent you parts for?
18:45 rue_mohr I'v managed to traumatize someone with a marshmellow.....
18:45 rue_mohr thats not even ON my todo list...
18:46 rue_mohr I seriously couldn't have even thought of that....
18:47 any70466778 i have made no progress, i have not touched any projects in a week or more
18:48 Tom_itx k. that was much more than a week
18:48 any70466778 it has crossed my mind to sweep the desks clear, into trash bins, and burn it all
18:48 m_itx takes helping ppl off his list of things t
18:49 y70466778 reminds Tom the current limited psu was needed to drive the motor, and it's almost
18:50 any70466778 there's several patterns of windings done, one is set in epoxy
18:51 any70466778 i'd have pics for you to look at, but the site is offline and i don't feel like uploading new pics to a site that's down
18:51 any70466778 plus, where is zhanx?
18:51 any70466778 rue wouldn't use this motor, and i know of no one else even slightly interested
18:53 any70466778 Tom ?
18:56 rue_mohr I ws really interested in how it worked, but I didn't think you wanted to tell me
18:57 Tom_itx ?
18:57 Tom_itx didn't wanna interrupt
18:57 any70466778 i tried to tell you, just like i tried to describe how to make a project during a flood of marshemellows
18:59 any70466778 Tom, i don't know how else to react to events, except badly
19:00 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1040726.jpg If I tramatize the marshmellow, does it make things better or worse?
19:01 any70466778 what about the tree trimming and shooting babies thing?
19:01 any70466778 my lack of pcb driller
19:01 rue_mohr apparently I dont need anything more dangerous than marshmellows
19:03 rue_mohr I'm 100% sure it wasn't ME that made any comment about the string colour
19:03 rue_mohr its one of the few times I wasn't guitly
19:04 any70466778 i need to know i am worth a damn before i do anything worth a damn
19:05 rue_mohr you have always been worth a lot more than a damn
19:05 rue_mohr I'v told you that over and over, you wont hear it
19:07 Tom_itx you're only worth what you make yourself be
19:10 any70466778 not true, you are worth to others whatever value they put on you
19:10 Jak_o_Shadows ^rue_mohr: you have always been worth a lot more than a damn
19:10 any70466778 i can value this penny at $10,000 , but i doubt anyone will ever buy it from me
19:11 Tom_itx then your outlook is different than mine
19:12 any70466778 well, show me how this $10,000 penny is worth $10,000 to you
19:13 Tom_itx i'm not discussing pennies
19:15 any70466778 it's my percieved value of something (penny or me) vs valueation by otehrs of (penny or me)
19:15 TELunus "you're only worth what you make yourself be" could be interperted that if you make yourself amazing, then others will put a higher value on you, thus making you worth more to them.
19:15 orlok the bank had to go and do a valuation of the property+land we just bought
19:15 orlok they valued it at the amount we paid
19:15 orlok probably cuts down on paperwork for them :)
19:16 any70466778 yeas, what someone will pay for something is it value
19:17 orlok yeah, i was worried that they were going to value it lower
19:18 orlok but i think if its in the ballpark, they just say its ok, its what you paid
19:18 orlok just as long as theres not an obvious case of fraud
19:18 rue_mohr kat, and if you apply your logic to words, you will realize that there is an infinite amount of things unsaid for every thing said, that are all relivent to its meaning
19:19 rue_mohr and so I ask you how anyting is ever understood
19:20 any70466778 i do not realise that
19:21 rue_mohr for about the last year, with the people around me, EVERY time I say something, I need to start expalinign the background of every part of it. and the background of every part of that
19:21 rue_mohr do you know how frustrating it is to have to explain interjections and the historical relivence of two peeople meeting just to have soneone understand "hello"
19:23 rue_mohr I used ot have a really good patiance
19:23 rue_mohr its getting short and it saddens me
19:25 Tom_itx that comes with age
19:26 Tom_itx and exposure to imbeciles
19:27 any70466778 i went off on one last week, real fast, zero patience
19:27 TELunus and your own expertise.
19:27 TELunus Imbeciles themselves don't have that issue as they get old around other imbeciles.
19:29 any70466778 not necessarily true
19:29 Tom_itx it's no wonder civilization progresses as slow as it does
19:29 any70466778 if you are percieved to be an imbecile, you will be grouped with them, no matter what you do
19:30 any70466778 i was talked down to like an imbecile for looking around while waiting on the elevator : guy said i obviously needed help because i was looking around, and not staring at the floor or wall
19:30 any70466778 he had a job, i don't
19:31 any70466778 he is percieved to have value, i don't
19:32 any70466778 i guess the smart thing to have been doing is either breaking down the eleavtor doors to get into the elevator shaft, or sit in a corner and stare straight ahead
19:48 rue_mohr is there a counteracting agent for exposure to imbeciles
19:49 gartt I think I read somewhere that aspirin works
19:51 theBear rue_mohr, liquor
19:51 any70466778 what is this agent? praps i can use it next time someone overtalks me on marshmellows
19:53 y70466778 plays solitare and vectoids instead of doing anything us
19:56 Jak_o_Shadows Right, the drill motor works, the drill battery works, the other motor works, now to find a wheel(s), and to figure out how to tell it to run from a 3.3v uC
19:57 Jak_o_Shadows I have 3 TI H-bridges, but they're PQFTP or something.
19:58 Jak_o_Shadows and they're so small, i'm not sure they'd cope with the heat
19:59 rue_mohr yo can get adapters form ebay
19:59 rue_mohr nly $3 ea or so
20:01 Jak_o_Shadows they're http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/461999/TI1/DRV8844PWPR.html . Sampled em for free from TI
20:09 Jak_o_Shadows I've also got a single IRF640, a 200v 18A n-channel mosfet, nicely heatsinked already. (it came out of the drill)
20:09 rue_mohr my interperter is going well
20:10 rue_mohr I hav to deal with [ and ] tho now
20:17 TELunus https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dcUpfUq3Wdq2Qw5AbwRlXY08LCgrRRxI5SGeiy1g04o/edit
20:18 Jak_o_Shadows How realistic is this circuit, and how sensitive is it to the voltages involved? I would be using 16V instead of 12V, and 3.3 instead of 5V
20:20 rue_mohr you have not defined "this circuit"
20:20 Jak_o_Shadows ooops
20:20 Jak_o_Shadows http://electronics-diy.com/schematics/1020/FET_Tied_Down.gif
20:21 rue_mohr uh
20:21 rue_mohr do you want the motor to be reversable?
20:22 Jak_o_Shadows Eventually, but i think i lack the parts atm.
20:24 rue_mohr 5V is rarely enought o drive a fet
20:24 rue_mohr your suposed ot have 10V
20:24 orlok holy shit
20:24 orlok http://www.togastro.com/ozzzy/images/Byers-Mount1.jpg
20:25 orlok to put it in perspective - the straps holding it down? they are holding it to a pickup truck
20:25 any70466778 on a cot?
20:26 orlok nah, the sleeping bag thing is just there for protection
20:26 Jak_o_Shadows hmm, how am i meant to run it from an msp430 then?
20:26 orlok apparently its got a 130kg payload capacity
20:26 any70466778 transistor
20:26 any70466778 or an oc chip like a 7407
20:26 Jak_o_Shadows Use a smaller transistor to drive the fet to drive the motor?
20:27 any70466778 yeas,, or bigger <shrug>
20:27 any70466778 to-92 case would prolly be fine
20:30 Jak_o_Shadows I've got a couple of PNP B772 transistors in a TO-126(?) case, as well as likely a couple of other smaller half-cylinder transistors
20:31 any70466778 half-cylinder transistors?
20:31 rue_mohr damn, hello world isn't working
20:31 any70466778 i am not familiar with that nomenclature
20:31 Jak_o_Shadows Um, those little black ones, 5mm high, like a cylinder with a slice cut off the side.
20:31 Jak_o_Shadows fairly common, probably low power
20:34 Centauri To-92 Case style
20:35 any70466778 get ye some 2n4401 and 2n4403, or some mpsa64 and mpsa25, or some mpsa92 and mpsa42, or some 2n5551 and 2N5401 (mmbt5551 or mmbt5401)
20:35 any70466778 KSP may be substituted for the MPSA
20:35 Jak_o_Shadows yeh, to-92
20:37 any70466778 then work on some TIP102 and TIP107, some TIP35 and TIP36, some TIP41 and TIP42, 2n7000 fets can be had real cheap sometimes
20:38 any70466778 IRF1404 if you need really low Ron fets, or IRFZ44 if you don't have money to burn
20:38 rue_mohr zippo:/files/programming/c/bf# ./a.out
20:38 rue_mohr Hello World!
20:38 rue_mohr yay! my bf interperter works
20:38 Jak_o_Shadows You know, thakns for throwing me 50 million acronyms
20:39 rue_mohr :0 i implemanted a language interperter in one night
20:39 rue_mohr Jak_o_Shadows, those are part numbers
20:39 y70466778 wonders what colors all those 1000's of transistors she has would burn in a
20:39 rue_mohr kat, if there is something I'v learned, I cant influence you
20:39 Jak_o_Shadows either way, it's over my head
20:40 Tom_itx rue_mohr you mean positively
20:40 any70466778 jak, then get your small head around it
20:40 orlok rue_mohr: bf?
20:40 rue_mohr brainf**k
20:40 rue_mohr 6777 Nov 12 18:26 a.out
20:41 m_itx wonders why he still has a 68hc11 sitting on his
20:41 rue_mohr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
20:42 rue_mohr http://paste.debian.net/208774/
20:42 rue_mohr oh I forgot input
20:42 rue_mohr damn
20:47 rue_mohr http://paste.debian.net/208775/
20:47 rue_mohr there is has input now
20:49 rue_mohr so now that I understand the language a bit better
20:58 Jak_o_Shadows hmm, according to my circuit simulation software, which is pretty un-numeric, 3.3V seems to work ok.
20:59 rue_mohr try modeling your drill with a 3 ohm resistor and watch the pwer sissipation on the fet
20:59 rue_mohr anything over 5W is REALLY bad
21:04 Jak_o_Shadows as a 3ohm resistor, it's 24uW, as a DC motor it's 2.56W
21:16 theBear err, that aint right
21:16 theBear 3v/3ohm=1a = 3w
21:17 Jak_o_Shadows yeah, i'm not too sure how accurate, if at all, the simulation software is.
21:17 theBear unless you feeding that 3ohms something like 50mV, it's broken
21:18 rue_mohr Jak_o_Shadows, wait you said a drill motor
21:18 Jak_o_Shadows yep.
21:18 rue_mohr thats between 4 and 15A
21:18 rue_mohr 6 to 18V
21:19 rue_mohr if you try to put 6A thru a fet with 3V on the gate, its gonna go up in smoke
21:19 rue_mohr less its a big fet
21:19 Jak_o_Shadows yeah. I just had a quick go, with 4AA instead of the 3.3v. Didn't matter what the gate was, still went, so i'm not sure i connected it right.
21:20 Jak_o_Shadows It's an IRF 640, 200V, 18A, 0.15ohm,
21:20 rue_mohr 10V from drain to gate in 'on'
21:21 rue_mohr if you have that fet then ok, if your buying them get an irfZ44 or something
21:21 rue_mohr if you want to use 5 or 3.3V on the gate, get a irflz44, the L means low voltage gate
21:22 Jak_o_Shadows hmm, ok
21:23 Jak_o_Shadows If i'm going to buy stuff, rather than just scavenge, why not just get a motor driver chip of some kind?
21:24 rue_mohr I have nothing against scrounging, most people do
21:26 rue_mohr I'm sorry, I'm not being verry helpfull
21:26 rue_mohr I'm immersed in a problem
21:26 Jak_o_Shadows Perhaps i would be helped by having a clue what i'm doing
21:27 rue_mohr I dont think I made a howto for fets yet
21:27 rue_mohr got the datasheet?
21:27 Jak_o_Shadows http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/SGSThomsonMicroelectronics/mXtvwts.pdf will do
21:28 rue_mohr ok, see the symbol for the fet?
21:28 rue_mohr did they put D S G right on it?
21:28 rue_mohr or do you have to go to the pins and corrilate with numbers to know what pins what
21:29 rue_mohr you may answer quickly to the yes/no questions
21:29 rue_mohr otherwise I will get much more intrested in something else and go to bed before you finish getting help
21:30 Jak_o_Shadows I see the symbol, i have no idea if they put DSG right on it. If it matters, 1 is blue, 2 is black, 3 is yellow
21:35 rue_mohr D is for Drain, S is for source
21:35 rue_mohr G is for gate
21:35 rue_mohr you have to know which wire is which
21:35 rue_mohr how many of the irf640 fets do you have?
21:35 Jak_o_Shadows one.
21:36 rue_mohr do you kno which pin is which?
21:37 Jak_o_Shadows I have to presume it's the same as the data-sheet, as the actual component has no labels like that on it
21:37 rue_mohr the component wont, you have to go by the datasheet
21:37 rue_mohr from the datasheet, do yo know which pin is which?
21:37 Jak_o_Shadows yes.
21:38 rue_mohr ok, on the symbol, which pin has the arrow on it
21:39 Jak_o_Shadows yes, pin 3, yellow
21:39 rue_mohr is that drain, source or gate
21:40 Jak_o_Shadows Source
21:40 rue_mohr correct
21:40 rue_mohr that goes to the battery -
21:40 rue_mohr which pin is the gate
21:40 Jak_o_Shadows 1, blue.
21:40 Jak_o_Shadows pin 3 goes to negative of the battery?
21:40 rue_mohr correct
21:41 rue_mohr yes
21:41 rue_mohr the drain goes to the motor, the other wire of the mtoor goes to battery +
21:41 rue_mohr do you have a 9V battery?
21:41 Jak_o_Shadows I could find one, but i'm using the drill battery, 16V
21:42 rue_mohr thats ok, ues that for the motor, get a 9V for operating the fet (for now)
21:42 rue_mohr so this will use 2 batteries
21:42 Jak_o_Shadows yeah, or at a later date, a regulator?
21:42 rue_mohr lets do this for now
21:43 rue_mohr so, do you have pin3 hooked to battery - , pin 2 to the motor, an the other wire of the motor to batery +?
21:43 rue_mohr er, dont atach it till you have the 9V battery ready
21:44 rue_mohr the ambient voltage in the air will try to turn the fet on a little and burn it out
21:47 rue_mohr have the 9V abttery ready?
21:47 Jak_o_Shadows got everything now
21:48 rue_mohr ok, the 9V battery attaches to the gate and the source
21:48 rue_mohr one way, it will turn the mtoor off
21:48 rue_mohr the toher way, it will turn the motor on
21:48 rue_mohr would you like to set that up and give it a try?
21:49 Jak_o_Shadows yeah, doing
21:49 Jak_o_Shadows right, pin 2, drain, connected to battery
21:49 rue_mohr no
21:50 rue_mohr pin 3 -> battery -
21:50 rue_mohr pin 2 -> motor -
21:50 rue_mohr battery + -> motor +
21:50 rue_mohr pin 1 -> 9V battery (+ or -)
21:50 rue_mohr 9V battery (other wire) -> pin 3
21:51 Tom_itx rue_mohr
21:51 Tom_itx did you find a taker?
21:51 rue_mohr Tom_itx,
21:51 rue_mohr what am I selling?
21:51 Tom_itx help
21:52 rue_mohr brain is at about 1% capacity, please elaborate
21:52 Tom_itx seems you are working on a bot here
21:52 Tom_itx just returned
21:52 rue_mohr ah
21:53 rue_mohr I dont know, I'm doing fet education, I think
21:53 Tom_itx could be worse
21:53 Jak_o_Shadows hmm, when i did pin1 to +9v (the negative of wich connected to battery negative), it turned on, i freaked out, removed 9v, kept going, disconnected motor from battery
21:53 rue_mohr yes, go the other way and it'll stop
21:53 Jak_o_Shadows and the FET is hot atm
21:54 rue_mohr yes, you have to leave the battery connected
21:54 rue_mohr it if smokes you need to find a new fet
21:54 Jak_o_Shadows otherwise it'll do too much?
21:54 Tom_itx back emf may get it
21:54 rue_mohr na
21:54 Jak_o_Shadows nah, not smoking.
21:54 rue_mohr Jak_o_Shadows, turn the 9V around and make sure it stops
21:55 rue_mohr Jak_o_Shadows, the fet has a damn tiny capacitor in it that can kinda 'remember' the last state
21:56 rue_mohr Jak_o_Shadows, if it gets hot enough to fry spit it starts to get damaged, and may not be able to properly turn off ever again
21:57 Jak_o_Shadows right, i think i got it
21:57 Jak_o_Shadows now to put the motor somwhere where i can see it
21:58 Jak_o_Shadows wooo! working!
21:59 e_mohr gives Jak_o_Shadows a pin "I'm eduracat
21:59 Jak_o_Shadows a flatter 9v battery, at 6.5V works
21:59 Jak_o_Shadows woo!
21:59 rue_mohr Jak_o_Shadows, the flatter the battery, the hotter the fet will get
21:59 Jak_o_Shadows ohok
22:00 rue_mohr 9V will run it about as cool as its gonna get
22:00 rue_mohr it draws almost 0 power to operate the fet
22:00 Jak_o_Shadows it's safe to leave as is? pin1 disconnected, other two connected?
22:00 rue_mohr Jak_o_Shadows, shall we get fancy before I go to bed?
22:00 Jak_o_Shadows how fancy?
22:00 rue_mohr do you have a resistor?
22:00 rue_mohr 1k to 100k?
22:00 Jak_o_Shadows yeah.
22:01 Jak_o_Shadows 100k?
22:01 Tom_itx 1k will do
22:01 rue_mohr ok , put it form pin 1 to pin 3
22:01 rue_mohr the motor should stop
22:02 Tom_itx the gate stays on?
22:02 Tom_itx until you shut it off?
22:03 rue_mohr gate capacitance
22:03 Tom_itx yeah
22:03 rue_mohr good way to kill a fet
22:03 rue_mohr Jak_o_Shadows, tell me when you have the resistor connected
22:03 Jak_o_Shadows yeah, connected
22:03 rue_mohr ok, motor is stopped right?
22:03 Jak_o_Shadows yeah
22:04 rue_mohr attach the 9V - to pin 3, and the 9V + to pin 1, the motor will turn on
22:04 rue_mohr yes?
22:05 Jak_o_Shadows hang on
22:05 rue_mohr :) and when you take it off, the motor will stop :)
22:05 Jak_o_Shadows YEAAAH
22:06 rue_mohr now you can install a button in the circuit
22:06 Jak_o_Shadows now i can write this down
22:06 Jak_o_Shadows as currently it's a bloody mess
22:06 rue_mohr !thislog
22:06 tobbor This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2012-11-13.html
22:06 rue_mohr oh that not cool
22:07 rue_mohr try now
22:10 Jak_o_Shadows cool
22:13 rue_mohr gnight
22:16 Jak_o_Shadows cya
22:16 Jak_o_Shadows thanks
22:33 any70466778 MARSHMELLOWS
22:34 rue_mohr ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
22:34 any70466778 <blink>
22:36 rue_mohr I mad that pic for you , why dont you want to look at it?
22:36 any70466778 if you had a pile of IRF830's, would you use them or relays to operate 15w mini-flourescents on 115dc ?
22:36 any70466778 what pic? for who?
22:36 rue_mohr I dont know the 830
22:36 rue_mohr I made th pic for you
22:36 any70466778 what pic?
22:37 any70466778 shame Tiggr isn't here, she could tell you about the IRF830
22:37 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1040726.jpg If I tramatize the marshmellow, does it make things better or worse?
22:37 rue_mohr maybe I should just delete it eh?
22:37 rue_mohr you would prolly never look at it anyhow
22:38 any70466778 in fact, she knows 19 different versions of the IRF830
22:38 any70466778 IRF830= [!what][!electronics][!device] Material:N-chan ; Use:power ; Device:MOSFET ; Vceo:500V ; Current:4.5A ; PwrDis:75W ; Case:TO-220
22:38 any70466778 that's one
22:38 any70466778 who says i didn't look?
22:38 rue_mohr <any70466778> what pic?
22:39 rue_mohr VCEO?
22:39 any70466778 i got ~300 IRF830 for free, remember? I am so fucking useless
22:39 rue_mohr CEO's have voltage?, we should make them power the grids!
22:39 any70466778 Vceo = Voltage, collector-emitter, operating
22:39 rue_mohr well, they sound like they have whats needed to switch a fourescent lamp
22:40 rue_mohr seeing as their ~250mA
22:40 any70466778 yeas, didn't answer the questions : who said i didn't look, and if you had a pile of IRF830's, would you use them or relays to operate 15w mini-flourescents on 115dc ?
22:41 any70466778 IRF830= [!what][!electronics][!device][!mosfet] MOSFET N-CH 500V 4.5A TO-220 ; PowerMESH STMicroelectronics ; MOSFET N-Channel, Metal Oxide ; Standard ; 1.5 Ohm @ 2.7A, 10V ; 500V ; 4.5A ; 4V @ 250uA ; 30nC @ 10V ; 610pF @ 25V ; 100W ; Through Hole
22:41 any70466778 IRF830= [!what][!electronics][!device][!mosfet] MOSFET N-CH 500V 4.5A TO-220AB ; Vishay/Siliconix ; MOSFET N-Channel, Metal Oxide ; Standard ; 1.5 Ohm @ 2.7A, 10V ; 500V ; 4.5A ; 4V @ 250uA ; 38nC @ 10V ; 610pF @ 25V ; 74W ; Through Hole
22:41 any70466778 1.5 ohm
22:42 any70466778 will throw 0.058 WATTS of heat , hell the relay coil will throw more
22:43 any70466778 mosfets don't have that ear splitting thunderous BLAM as they close to turn on the rows of lites
22:43 Tom_itx rue_mohr, it has a nice hat
22:43 any70466778 i could add that to the sterio, i spose
22:44 rue_mohr heh
22:46 any70466778 a lil time delay between the lites coming on, and relay sound effects at 100db, with reverb and echo
22:47 any70466778 you know for each fet i'll also need at least a resistor, and maybe a zener too
22:50 any70466778 geese, these sell for $ each on ebay
22:51 rue_mohr wow, I just traced hello world in bf
22:51 rue_mohr crazy
22:54 any70466778 qty 200 for $114
22:55 any70466778 qty 100 for $54
22:56 TELunus|2 rue_mohr, does the language I'm working on do what you want?
22:56 any70466778 qty 50 for $35
23:00 rue_mohr not that way I want
23:00 rue_mohr I dont think
23:00 rue_mohr beacuse brainf**k only has 8 commands I think it self modify more easily
23:01 rue_mohr I want to write a program that writes a program that does something
23:02 rue_mohr http://homepages.xnet.co.nz/~clive/eigenratios/cgbfi1.b
23:02 orlok write a program that writes a lisp compiler/interpreter?
23:02 rue_mohr this is a brainf**k interperter written in brainf**k
23:02 orlok write a program that writes RMS? :)
23:03 rue_mohr I'm playing
23:04 rue_mohr this palying is gonna break my brain
23:04 rue_mohr gnight