#robotics Logs

Oct 11 2012

00:01 katsmeow-afk again?
00:03 rue_bed ....
00:03 katsmeow-afk [23:47] <rue_house> but what is the top set that ended in "analysis is"
00:03 katsmeow-afk [23:48] <katsmeow-afk> don't know yet, two-ples are easier than 5-ples, so i am grabbing the hard ones
00:05 rue_bed hmm
00:05 rue_bed would you like a dvd of all the irc logs?
00:05 katsmeow-afk i doubt it
00:05 rue_bed smaller data set, but might be more content rich
00:06 rue_bed think of a bot that knew everything we talked about
00:06 katsmeow-afk i don't know that i want to introduce the sex and violins into the database
00:07 rue_bed I suppose sex would confuse a machine to a moderate degree
00:07 rue_bed does alcohol kill viruses?
00:08 katsmeow-afk if you pour it on them
00:08 rue_bed in ~13% concentration?
00:09 rue_bed to infected flesh?
00:11 lok has to go to a pre-job-interview in 30 min
00:11 orlok :-\
00:11 orlok half a dozen "screening questions" for a new sysadmin job
00:11 katsmeow-afk 4 minute lag there
00:12 katsmeow-afk it will burn like hell as it kills open skin too
00:12 katsmeow-afk use peroxide in sterile water
00:12 orlok bub took her first steps a few days ago
00:13 orlok 1st birthday tomorrow!
00:14 katsmeow-afk what kinda job screening takes place tween midnite and 1am?!?
00:14 orlok You forget, i'm in the future!
00:14 orlok Its 4pm here
00:15 orlok 11th of October
00:15 katsmeow-afk then you should already know if you got the job :-)
00:16 katsmeow-afk A Pentagon Navy staff celebration to commemorate the Navy's 237th birthday was held on 9, October 2012.
00:16 katsmeow-afk which was your 10th, i think
00:20 helpplease hey
00:20 helpplease I need some help figuring out how long I can run an in car DVR camera on my car battery before it dies.
00:22 orlok Wow! - http://www.mdpub.com/scopeworks/hexagons/index.html
00:23 orlok helpplease: start off with the current draw and voltage of the PVR?
00:23 helpplease I cant get any good information on it
00:23 orlok helpplease: and your car batteries amp hours
00:23 orlok helpplease: How is it powered?
00:23 katsmeow-afk http://img.maritimeprofessional.com/images/show.aspx?storyid=348381&width=300
00:23 orlok Plugpack? Mains?
00:23 helpplease I see one of them has a battery that is 3.7V 1000mAh and lasts 3 hours
00:23 helpplease does that sound plausible?
00:24 helpplease does that mean it draws 300mAh?
00:25 orlok yeah, i guess
00:25 katsmeow-afk you should be able to power it off the car's main battery as long as the engine is running above 2000 rpm
00:25 orlok you need a way to get your 12v down to 3.7v
00:25 orlok katsmeow-afk: I'm guessing he wants to have the engine turned off, and record stuff, and have the car still start
00:25 helpplease its plugged into the cigarette lighter, I was just trying to figure out the power draw
00:25 helpplease using the battery
00:26 helpplease that is correct orlok
00:26 orlok helpplease: Can it be powered by USB?
00:26 helpplease not natively
00:26 orlok helpplease: How will you power it from the 12v socket?
00:26 katsmeow-afk The EM Railgun laboratory demonstrator based at NSWC-Dahlgren Division fired a world record setting 33-megajoule shot in December 2010. One megajoule of energy is equivalent to a 1-ton car traveling at 100 miles per hour.
00:27 orlok As whatever method is used wont be 100% efeccient
00:27 helpplease It comes with a 12v adapter for the car
00:27 helpplease i realize power will be lost, I'm just trying to figure out what ballpark im in
00:29 orlok helpplease: Does the 12v adaptor have any amp draw details?
00:29 helpplease i havent ordered it yet :P
00:29 helpplease and all the information online is awful
00:29 orlok helpplease: Also, your car battery will have an amp hour rating.
00:29 helpplease only thing conclusive about the power is that battery information i found
00:29 orlok ALthough thats not what they are designed for
00:30 helpplease ? what isn't designed for
00:32 helpplease say my car battery is 600
00:32 helpplease means it will run for days?
00:32 orlok helpplease: car batteries are designed for short periods of hi8gh current supply
00:32 tsmeow-afk suggests #electro
00:33 helpplease Didn't know that
00:33 helpplease heads over
00:33 katsmeow-afk car batteres are not designed to be used as deep discharge batteries
00:34 katsmeow-afk i am having huge lag here, i am outa the conversation
00:40 helpplease cant seem to write in electronics
01:37 rue_bed car battery is about 40 to 60Ah
12:56 fugdnscerd trying to implement a charger for a sealed lead acid 12V 7.2V battery. I am looking to trickle charge with 12V 400mA. I have seen chargers for 5Ah 12V SLAs supplying 12V@500mA. Will using a low current rate just make the charging take longer?
13:36 theBear fugdnscerd, pretty much, if anything lower charge rates are better for the life of the battery (less heating/chemical stuff going on)
13:37 theBear at the same time, unless it's a TINY sla, even an amp isn't a 'high' charging current
13:37 fugdnscerd thats what I figured, any suggestions on a charge controller for 12V sealed lead acid batteries
13:38 theBear umm, lm317 in current mode is the first thing to come to mind, if you talking about making one, possibly even a charger schematic in the datasheet
13:39 theBear i used to use one of those with adjustable current (just a pot and a couple resistors, cap or two and a lm317 and a dc supply > 16v or so) to charge all kinds of batteries, ie. resurrecting palm/phones that i had never seen a charger for (i used to know a guy who got paid to 'dispose' of commercial/big business phone/tech waste, so long as it didn't turn up on ebay etc, he could basically do whatever he wanted with them)
13:39 fugdnscerd ok thanks, if the supply is already regulated i could probably bypass this tho correct? The charge supply just needs to be regulated right? The reason I ask is the supply is actually a 5V@1A regulated supply that I plan to step up with a boost converter to the necessary voltage to charge my 12V7Ah SLA
13:40 theBear this is why i got such a good supply of things like lcds and tiny smd buttons and random 'arm development boards' :)
13:40 theBear not really, a 'regulated' supply means VOLTAGE regulated, the current is a maximum, you may well get a fair bit more out for some amount of time before something melts/breaks as most small suppliies don't have fuses/overcurrent protection
13:41 theBear also consider if you make a theoretically perfect converter, 5v/1a will only be 10v/.5a, or 15v/ 1/3rd amp etc etc
13:41 theBear and you can't make a perfect one
13:42 theBear if you are just trickle charging (400mA isn't THAT much to deal with) and you have a voltage not too much higher than the battery, just a resistor MIGHT be good enough, tho you would tend to have an initially high current in that case, have to balance between start current and finish current
13:42 theBear do you not have a box of old random wallwart/supplies to pillage ? 16-24vdc is pretty common between random answering machines, printers, scanners, old laptops etc etc
13:43 fugdnscerd the supply is actually BQ51013AEVM and the output is supposed to be higly regulated in voltage and current
13:43 fugdnscerd im making a wireless charger
13:43 theBear consider ohms law and current limiting (you might call it regulation) ... the only way to limit current is to reduce voltage, and that supply is specced for 5v ONLY, not less than 5v if you overload it
13:44 theBear you are? how wireless, distance i mean
13:45 theBear tho none of that really applies if you are boosting it, 'cos you'll need your own limit/control to avoid killing your boost circuit, AND the boost will want to pull 1a or less
13:46 theBear get the lm317 datasheet anyway, it's a fairly 'universal' and simple regulator, if you look at the (simple) maths for either a voltage or a current based supply (as shown in the examples section) it should all become obvious
13:46 fugdnscerd about 10mm from what another contestant has said, I have not got the chance to do any real world testing yet
13:47 fugdnscerd ok cool... If your interested in wireless charging/power check out the wireless power design competition at element14.com I'm one of the contestants
13:47 theBear but having a wireless section involved also changes things... for example you'll need some kinda ac wave across the wireless link, you should probably worry more about generating that on the 'input' side, and then about charging/limiting on the battery side
13:48 theBear ooh, maybe i should stop helping <grin>
13:48 fugdnscerd lol no its cool
13:48 theBear and i miss farnells, i can't take them seriously anymore
13:48 smeding i find if you ignore the element14 bullshit they're still a useful electronics reseller with a halfway decent search
13:49 fugdnscerd the wireless section is already pre built in the form of eval boards... 19V in on the transmitter side and 5V@1A out on the receiver side
13:49 smeding i assembled a wireless charger one time
13:49 fugdnscerd ill have to keep that in mind
13:49 smeding it was silly
13:49 smeding the design was pretty simple though
13:50 theBear no it isn't, i respected and used the farnells company/brand for around 15 years, and overnight they change their brand AND test it on MY market first... if they had a good reason then i may feel different, but they didn't
13:50 theBear oh, i see, so err, where's the challenge ?
13:50 smeding i'm with theBear
13:50 smeding what's the challenge if not designing hardware
13:50 theBear i WAS thinking, if i was gonna build a simple wireless sla (OR similar charger) i'd take advantage of the wireless link if i needed to step up/down voltage, transformer style
13:50 smeding is it who can hook up pre-built modules together the best? that's boring as hell
13:50 fugdnscerd we have to integrate into our daily lives... im integrating into a robot my son and i are building
13:51 smeding oh so it's 'design something using wireless charging'
13:51 smeding that's silly, you can't judge that objectively
13:51 smeding then again, wireless charging is mostly silly
13:51 fugdnscerd eh its fun for me and I get free stuff
13:51 theBear i wonder if i still remember my old job login.... my so called replacement was fired a few weeks ago, and i DO get all their work at my new job at the moment <grin> so i am justified
13:51 theBear they don't make it easy to find
13:52 theBear got a link to the board?
13:52 theBear also, do you really deserve to win the competition if you need this much help ?
13:54 fugdnscerd http://www.element14.com/community/groups/wireless-power-solution
13:55 fugdnscerd lol, maybe not. I guess that will be decided. besides I pretty much knew the answer just wanted to verify.
13:55 theBear no you didn't, you think the supply is current limited
13:56 fugdnscerd The eval boards and the chip being QI compliant regulate current and it is indeed limited to 1A
13:58 theBear hmmm, seems like a pretty stupid board all in all, i could do better without that fancy ic
13:58 fugdnscerd i dont imply at all that I know everything as you seem to, and I am a hobbiest not a professional. And as this competition is aimed at the professional and hobbiest alike, I don't think my experience or knowledge are relevant.
13:59 theBear probably not, and now you shown me, it does look more like a concept competition than a technical one, BUT, it's still a competition, we shouldn't really help you
14:00 fugdnscerd then good day to you
14:00 theBear well, i wasn't trying to be rude, it's just, a competition, y'know ?
14:03 mindw0rk too bad he can't hear you over the baaaw
14:05 theBear hehe
14:05 theBear what little info i got out of their horrible forum-site just now, it really sounds like the competition is about finding usefull applications rather than anything remotely electronic
14:06 theBear maybe i get the boss to log me in tomorrow at new work and see what i can see... maybe they got other competitions i like better that can win me cool tools
14:06 theBear then again, i'm very happy with my 'ancient' dual 20mhz scope and $35 multimeter :)
14:12 mindw0rk are those little digital scopes from seedstudio worth buying
14:12 mindw0rk I've been considering getting one for years now, but I've never got my ass to do it.
14:13 theBear no idea :) never heard much
14:14 theBear used a fluke fancy meter tiny 'scope' and a 'noname' one from a local chain a couple times over the years, they seem 'fine' for most things
14:57 rue_house ok
14:59 rue_house I still need to work on my basic digital scope
14:59 rue_house so I can tune mechanical feedback systems
15:00 rue_house making progress on the pc end software
15:00 rue_house !assist tutorials
15:00 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials
15:03 rue_house theBear, you up?
15:03 theBear slightly, what can i do yer for ?
15:03 rue_house I made a tutorial I wanted to show you
15:04 rue_house this is a bit of a long read, but not uninteresting, give me a min.
15:05 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
15:06 rue_house tell me what you think
15:07 rue_house is the page all togthor?
15:07 theBear first line, vary <grin>
15:07 rue_house haha
15:08 rue_house I think all the images, work
15:09 rue_house my point was, see the "digital scope snapshots" ?
15:09 theBear and it's been a while, but shouldn't you say (near end of first paragraph/section) in summary, expects to see a pulse at LEAST every 20ms, and no sooner than ever 2ms (or whatever it is
15:09 rue_house well they are fudged with the scope software I'm making
15:09 theBear the scope pics look fine/good
15:09 rue_house no, cuase you need to repeat it at 50hz, with a 1-2ms pulse
15:10 rue_house if you dial up the freq, the motors amp/loop gain change
15:10 rue_house ?
15:10 theBear really ? you have to wait that long ? like i said it's been a while, but i thought there was a VERY short minimum repeat time, and the 20ms (ish, depending on brand/model) was a maximum ?
15:10 theBear oh that makes sense, i should finish reading about the finer points of a 'normal' servo circuit :)
15:10 theBear on this page i mean :)
15:10 rue_house keep reading, i say how they work
15:11 theBear hmm, what is a 4017 ?
15:11 rue_house :)
15:11 theBear i know the basics of how they work, i'll just have to examine to get the idea about why i can't pulse too fast
15:11 rue_house a ripple counter
15:12 theBear oh, i get it :)
15:12 rue_house in the 'how it works' the 20ms is needed to drive the motor with a proportianate drive pulse
15:12 rue_house cute eh?
15:12 theBear multiplexer i think is spelling, might be wrong on that tho.. also maybe just a couple more words about what they do... even for me i had to squint at the schems for a minute to workout what they were/do
15:13 theBear and as usual your narrative style and little challenge-questions add a nice feel
15:13 rue_house I have to admit, the images are almost unrelated to the text
15:13 smeding not really a fan of 'challenge questions' or anything
15:13 rue_house I just kinda poked them in where they were most relivent
15:13 smeding the text seems... sloppy... a lot of spelling and style mistakes
15:14 theBear rue does robots, not spelling :)
15:14 rue_house is there an online speel checker for webpages?
15:14 rue_house :/
15:14 rue_house how about irc?
15:15 theBear hmm, i'll have to read harder tomorrow when i got more time and sleep/wakiness, but i still don't see (just reading the internals of m51660l bit) why a shorter gap is a big problem, so long as the gap is long enough for the compare to finish
15:15 theBear maybe i should become your official spelling and grammar editor :)
15:15 rue_house AFter the compare is the motor pulse
15:15 rue_house :)
15:15 rue_house I should start with varry
15:16 theBear heh, or at least put line numbers so i can give you accurate corrections
15:16 theBear vary dammit :)
15:16 rue_house heh
15:16 rue_house should I peel some brightness off the background?
15:16 theBear and you got a broken doesn't just between the block diagram and the example-schem
15:17 theBear and next line after that should be it's, as in, it is, not belonging too
15:17 theBear maybe, been a while since i seen one of your pages, info like this i don't mind bright backgrounds, but generally i err towards something softer than white
15:19 smeding isn't there some nice unix program you can pipe a document through
15:19 smeding eh, black on white is fine
15:19 smeding i'd rather have black on white than dark grey on light grey
15:19 smeding or some bullshit like that
15:19 any79939103 if the freq is too high, the pulses are too short, there isn't time for the current to start to build in the motor windings
15:20 theBear probably, i always been able to spell :)
15:20 smeding i saw bitbucket syntax highlighting the other day that used light grey on white
15:20 theBear any79939103, ahh, i'll buy that... that is you right ? not some other random nick person ?
15:20 smeding for comments, at that, the one thing in code that are there for reading
15:22 katsmeow-afk you can host your own http proxy, and it does the spell checking before your browser sees it
15:22 smeding how about people learn their own language
15:22 theBear hehe, rue should pipe everything he does thru one of those <grin>
15:23 smeding :p
15:23 tsmeow-afk does that, it "spell checks" "javascript" so the browser sees it as "javacr
15:23 smeding fwiw the HTML on that page is gross
15:23 theBear rue is an eccentric genius, like many of us in our little areas... i forgive the spelling 'cos corrections don't offend him, and he's friggin smart ! he answers everything i ever need to know
15:24 theBear how you make gross html on such a simple page ? hehe
15:24 katsmeow-afk winrar has been running 14 hrs, got 1/2 the file decompressed :-/
15:24 smeding look at it
15:24 katsmeow-afk what page?
15:25 smeding http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
15:25 smeding that
15:25 theBear little rough, better than anything i ever seen come out of frontpage or the dreamweaver :)
15:25 smeding i'd also add a little introducting saying what the page is *about*
15:25 smeding the way it is now, i dismissed it as just being about driving a servo at first
15:26 smeding if you want i can clean up the text in half an hour or so -- not that i have much to do
15:26 smeding rewriting it i mean
15:26 smeding also, the HTML
15:26 smeding rue_house: let me know if you want me to... i have to go walk the dog now though
15:27 rue_house I'm back
15:27 katsmeow-afk oh, pulse width on a *servo* is averaged internally to a voltage, which is compared to the voltage off the pot on the shaft, the controlelr in the servo then operates the motor to make the pot read the same as the averaged volts in your pulse train
15:28 smeding rue_house describes a different method :)
15:28 smeding the 'other stuff' thing also seems very disjoint... why not make a separate page for that?
15:28 theBear his method on brief inspection does appear to match the insides of that chip
15:30 katsmeow-afk ah, he is describing the 100% digital approach, so there's no analog cap, which is why the servo needs constant pulses and why the rate of rotaton changes as the error gets smaller
15:31 katsmeow-afk in the analog system, the rate of rotation can be constant, no matter how small the pulse width step, and once a step is sent the pulses can be stopped and the servo will complete the step last sent
15:32 rue_house its by kompozer
15:33 rue_house smeding, is says it in big text at the top, servo anatomy
15:34 rue_house katsmeow-afk, no, the pot voltage is converted to a pulse
15:34 smeding rue_house: that's a title, not an introduction ;-)
15:34 rue_house so I should say it again?
15:35 katsmeow-afk pots don't make pulses, and i did say : <katsmeow-afk> ah, he is describing the 100% digital approach, so there's no analog cap, which is why the servo needs constant pulses and why the rate of rotaton changes as the error gets smaller
15:36 rue_house hobby servos all convert to pulses
15:36 smeding wouldn't you want the rate of rotation to approach zero as the error equals zero? or you get constant hard oscillation as the error becomes positive/negative
15:36 rue_house this isn't "servos" its "hobby servos"
15:36 rue_house RC servos
15:37 tsmeow-afk was more accustomed to setting the gain curve in a pid situation in industrial s
15:37 rue_house kat, did I not describe that right?
15:37 katsmeow-afk i didn't read it in detail, rue, i still have puter issues here
15:38 smeding oh and i wasn't so much talking about just writing the same thing down again as expanding by saying what you will describe
15:38 smeding doesn't have to be long
15:39 katsmeow-afk smeding, you can set the gain really high and set a brick wall drop in gain right at the 0% error, and apply brakes at that point
15:40 smeding yeah okay, but that's a more complex situation
15:40 katsmeow-afk in effect, switch thegain negative for a ms right where it's falling off
15:40 katsmeow-afk the negative gain then drops off by itself as zero is approached
15:41 katsmeow-afk you haveto think outside the box if you wanna achieve what hasn't been achived inside the box
15:41 smeding i was just saying, a simple comparator on the error for >0 / <0 seems very prone to oscillation
15:41 smeding with a little inertia on the rotor
15:41 smeding might as well go for proportional control
15:42 katsmeow-afk yeas, if you don't apply brains to the design
15:42 katsmeow-afk you may not remember open reel tape drives on computer systems, i worked on them
15:43 smeding i don't, but you seem very offended that i made a tiny remark
15:43 katsmeow-afk i am not offended
15:43 smeding then why are you even giving me your credentials
15:43 rue_house I'm fixing the front of it up for you smeding
15:43 smeding anyway afk
15:44 smeding rue_house: haha thanks, i guess. just a suggestion
15:44 rue_house hey you aren't a hackaday editor are you?
15:44 katsmeow-afk i was just trying to give you some info, and say i am speaking from expereince, not guessing
15:44 smeding rue_house: nope... don't really read hackaday, is that meant to be a compliment
15:44 rue_house its was just a question
15:45 katsmeow-afk wow, we really really need to use emoticons wth smeding
15:45 smeding haha
15:45 smeding if you don't know how to communicate more clearly that might be an idea
15:46 katsmeow-afk clear communication: " "
15:47 katsmeow-afk language is ambiguous, especially when used incorrectly, or the reader is mistranslating it
15:48 smeding well, the issue i had was more with statements that seem to come out of nowhere... i don't really care about your credentials designing control systems when i'm just trying to see if my intuition about something is correct
15:48 smeding but it's all gravy man, don't worry
15:49 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
15:50 rue_house }:]
15:50 smeding oh dear
15:51 rue_house you will die of aphixiation after reading the first paragraph
15:51 rue_house 'coz if nothing else, fix it with a disclaimer
15:52 smeding nah i stopped at 'too bad'
15:52 smeding if you're not willing to put in that work, then i'm not willing to read it either :p
15:54 rue_house first thing I see if a solid block of text, I have to fix that first
15:54 rue_house hmmm
18:34 xxoxx 1/35 scale tank model modified to run
18:34 xxoxx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Beh7ucqsuk
18:48 katsmeow-afk i converted this tank to puter control : http://designerthinking.com/images/robotics/tank,%20later%20convert%20to%20comp%20control.jpg
18:48 katsmeow-afk i did not convert the boy
18:49 katsmeow-afk the box in the background right, of the 4x4 toy truck, that was to be converted also
18:49 katsmeow-afk but they got a dog and turned it loose, so i turned the humans loose, no clue where they or the toys are now
18:50 katsmeow-afk everything gets fucked over by dogs
18:51 katsmeow-afk i still have the video transmitter i was going to put in the 4x4 so the puter could display a screen of what you'd see if you were in the truck driving it
18:51 mutilator i drive my revo outside sometimes with the camera
18:51 mutilator sit on the couch and drive around the house
18:51 theBear where did you get the boy ?
18:52 mutilator problem is when turning the FOV is small so you end up running into thngs you dont expect, like the poles to the swing set
18:52 katsmeow-afk it came with the parent
18:52 katsmeow-afk then use two cameras set to slightly overlap
18:53 katsmeow-afk you can get 90 degree fov in some tiny cameras, 2 would give you a full 180 degrees
18:53 mutilator yea, i do have two
18:53 mutilator i just dont have the stuff to combine them to one screen
18:53 mutilator namely the receiver
18:53 rue_house with mirrors, and one camera, split a left and right view, stream 1 video feed, and split back out with mirrors to eyes on the other end
18:54 rue_house analog cameras have "infinite" horizontal resolution, so there is no quality loss
18:55 e_house looks at
18:55 theBear rue_house, hmmm... that's err, i kinda knew that, but seeing it written like that, nice
18:55 katsmeow-afk "quality loss" ?
18:55 eBear considers rejigging his resolution on the capture that does his front/back doors A
18:56 theBear katsmeow-afk, you know, so long as your capture thingy can see high enough freqs, you have 'infinite' horizontal pixel resolution, but only say 425 or 500 or so vertical due to ntsc/pal
18:56 rue_house this cup cant keep up with my throat
18:56 xxoxx my computer controlled mini-tank:
18:57 xxoxx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Beh7ucqsuk
18:58 katsmeow-afk not so, especially color cameras, because the 3.58 chroma is on the same wire, the luma cuts off below 3Mhz, you do good to get CGA video
18:58 katsmeow-afk now with a b%w camera, you can go up to 5Mhz, which is ntsc spec on luma, for 6Mhz channel bands
19:00 katsmeow-afk for color cameras, since the top freq is the 3.58Mhz, any cheap 20Mhz adc is good enough
19:00 katsmeow-afk the first commercial ntsc tbc's used 20Mhz convertors
19:05 theBear hmm, this also makes sense, i never been great at theory like that (how much luma and chroma you can squeeze down a wire etc etc)
19:08 katsmeow-afk for comparison, svga max spec for the 3 chroma pairs is 400Mhz , iirc, that's *max* spec, i doubt they ever see 100Mhz
19:08 theBear mmm
19:09 katsmeow-afk there's no luma wire for svga
19:09 theBear yup, i'm quite familiar with the electrical side of ?vga
19:09 theBear and better than anyone i ever met at soldering 'em into those crazy hd plugs :)
19:10 katsmeow-afk oddly, if you build a bitmap for ntsc with the olde specs using a crt, you end up with the same pattern as svga, including all the dead space, but minus chroma burst and those nasty v-retrace sync pulses
19:11 theBear err, bitmap ? i'm outta my depth here
19:11 katsmeow-afk bitmap , as in the memory containing an entore frame of video, stored and ready to send out
19:12 katsmeow-afk erg,, afk
19:12 theBear gotcha
19:30 peeps[lappy] does anyone know of some good open source designs for diy motors?
22:14 rue_house vga is 3 lumas, no chroma
22:15 katsmeow-afk what did i say?
22:16 rue_house erg,, afk
22:16 rue_house why?
22:17 katsmeow-afk [18:56] <katsmeow-afk> for comparison, svga max spec for the 3 chroma pairs is 400Mhz , iirc, that's *max* spec, i doubt they ever see 100Mhz
22:17 katsmeow-afk [18:57] <theBear> mmm
22:17 katsmeow-afk [18:57] <katsmeow-afk> there's no luma wire for svga
22:17 rue_house there are 3 luma wires, no chroma
22:17 katsmeow-afk the croma wires controlt he luma for their color, there is not overall luma wire
22:18 rue_house oh
22:18 katsmeow-afk the wires are labeled red, blue green
22:18 rue_house they call it chroma cause thats what it dosn't have
22:18 rue_house but when you chop a cable open its blue green and grey
22:18 rue_house or was it red, grey and blue
22:19 katsmeow-afk right, because there is no grey light, so it's unaffected
22:19 rue_house its not red and white
22:19 rue_house I think the green is grey cause they use the green for monochrome
22:21 rue_house right, well I'm glad thats clear
22:21 rue_house I was thinking more about decomposing brains
22:21 rue_house maybe the trick is to take it one subsystem at a time
22:23 rue_house we know that different types of ....
22:23 katsmeow-afk they don't work if they are decomposing
22:23 rue_house brain functions are ....
22:23 katsmeow-afk you are here because ....
22:23 katsmeow-afk where else would you be?
22:23 rue_house done by different ....
22:23 rue_house physical structures of the brain
22:24 e_house glues that togethor and check
22:24 rue_house there is the cere..whatever and the hippo...whichever
22:24 rue_house and there's the other thing
22:25 rue_house we need to take and work out the dependency tree
22:25 rue_house then reduce to the most critical component and get that functionality working
22:26 rue_house right
22:26 rue_house ?
22:26 katsmeow-afk no
22:26 rue_house its just like building anything
22:27 katsmeow-afk as a brat, a developing sentience, your only function is to cry if uncomfy and do what you are told to do, after that most humans don't change much,, they do whatever to feel comfy and do what they are told, but that does not apply to an ai, does it?
22:28 rue_house http://brainspedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/5-Functions-Of-The-Human-Brain-4.jpg
22:28 rue_house so there is the large pile of simplicity
22:28 rue_house lets try to find a small pile
22:29 katsmeow-afk small pile = "limbic system"
22:30 katsmeow-afk from that point str8 down, you can build any small mammal or reptile
22:30 katsmeow-afk but they haveto be born that way
22:30 katsmeow-afk they cannot chose to be that way
22:30 rue_house no I mean the smallest operational model
22:31 katsmeow-afk which is why it's ok if two penguins get married to each otehr in the movies
22:31 rue_house maybe a worm
22:31 katsmeow-afk a worm is a distributes system
22:31 katsmeow-afk -s+d
22:31 rue_house then maybe thats what we should be looking at
22:32 katsmeow-afk i got 10 puters here what do you think i been doing?
22:34 katsmeow-afk 12 yrs ago i tried to get a group together to link via internet, all our puters, and build a big cluster for doing Ai, no one helped
22:34 katsmeow-afk "oh you just want a bot system to steal private information!" shit
22:34 ace4016 hehe
22:35 katsmeow-afk if you build a cluster it's no smarter and going off to steal anything than just one computer will
22:36 katsmeow-afk it was like the scare one news org made, if you know what a capacitor is, you're a terrorist, because capacitors are used to set off nuclear bombs
22:37 ace4016 kats, well...the FBI does keep a watchlist on people that order electronic components :P
22:37 ace4016 so....you're most likely on their list, as is everyone in this channel
22:37 ace4016 infact, there might even be an agent or three in this channel
22:37 ace4016 hi FBI :D
22:37 rue_house http://images.tutorvista.com/content/animal-morphology/nervous-system-in-earthoworm.jpeg
22:37 katsmeow-afk i was on their list even preteen
22:38 rue_house yes, we could be making mney producing tamper proof event timers and selling them to the koreans!
22:38 katsmeow-afk i was 7 yrs old got pulled over for speeding on a military base,
22:38 katsmeow-afk on a bike
22:38 rue_house cause we cant make money anyhow else,
22:38 katsmeow-afk a single speed bike
22:38 rue_house cause all our jobs were shipped to china
22:39 ace4016 kats, such a rebel
22:39 rue_house http://content.answcdn.com/main/content/img/McGrawHill/Encyclopedia/images/CE449300FG0010.gif
22:39 rue_house ok...
22:40 ace4016 why are you looking at brains and nervous systems rue?
22:41 rue_house need to find the simplest operating set
22:41 rue_house it seems there is no detail on worm brains
22:41 katsmeow-afk any reflex is the simplest
22:41 katsmeow-afk worms have no brains
22:41 rue_house http://images.tutorvista.com/content/animal-morphology/nervous-system-in-earthoworm.jpeg
22:41 rue_house http://www.bumblebee.org/invertebrates/images/LTerrestrisNervousSys.jpg
22:42 ace4016 not sure it would be useful
22:42 ace4016 tbh...
22:42 ace4016 unless you're going to replicate the biological process fully
22:42 rue_house now is hello world
22:42 rue_house nor
22:42 rue_house but its a good start
22:42 ace4016 otherwise, you're just going to half ass it like everyone else before you for the past 60 years
22:43 ace4016 just my opinion...but i've seen this route taken so many times >_>
22:43 katsmeow-afk and they haven't got t working by doing it the same way over and over
22:45 rue_house http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-42-26623648.jpg?size=67&uid=91d34f41-ec0c-4b78-b3a2-72b0eff151c0
22:45 rue_house why is it like that
22:45 katsmeow-afk you know what i'd like to do? drive back down to that property in Fla, pick an orange, and sit outside with a fish dinner and a bbq dinner, and be peaceful
22:47 rue_house http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Gastropod_nervous_system.gif/220px-Gastropod_nervous_system.gif
22:47 rue_house ah
22:50 rue_house http://science.cabot.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/life_getting_complicated-300x293.jpg
22:50 rue_house hahaha
22:50 rue_bed ]
22:54 katsmeow-afk wooo, i am only 1 gbyte shy of getting this one file unzipped
22:54 katsmeow-afk it's been unzipping since last nite
22:54 katsmeow-afk then it can get to the other files
22:57 katsmeow-afk core-7 has stored 180gbytes this week, i need some time to read it all
23:00 rue_house there actually dosn't seem to be much information about anyting other than the human brain
23:00 katsmeow-afk ?
23:00 rue_house as far as brains go
23:00 rue_house there is almost no other information about the worms brain
23:26 katsmeow-afk ...