#robotics Logs

Sep 22 2012

08:02 rue_house http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/SS8050CTA/SS8050CTAFSCT-ND/3478155
08:02 rue_house 1.5A!?
08:03 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-10PCS-S8050D-S8050-8050-NPN-Transistor-TO-92-/250884138327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a69dc2557
08:40 katsmeow-afk rue, i'd stay away from that http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-10PCS-S8050D-S8050-8050-NPN-Transistor-TO-92-/250884138327
08:40 katsmeow-afk the Weitron Technology S8050 is NPN
08:41 katsmeow-afk the Wing Shing Computer Components S8050 is PNP
08:41 katsmeow-afk no telling what you'll get, the ebay page doesn't say
08:46 rue_bed how about I get it and tell ya
08:46 rue_bed 3/$1
08:48 katsmeow-afk then you'll have a box of transistors with contradictory and unknown unreliable specs,, how about i sell you a handfull of parts with no numbers on them for even less? It's the same thing
08:48 rue_bed 16x12V = 192V
08:48 rue_bed but its only a buck
08:48 katsmeow-afk 16x14 (fully charged) = 224V
08:49 rue_bed the ups I got is 192V
08:49 rue_bed Im yet to see if it works
08:49 katsmeow-afk 16x10(fully discharged = 160V
08:50 rue_bed if it does I'm wondering if I should use it instead of the 48V 5kva I have
08:50 rue_bed this 192V one is 8kva
08:50 rue_bed but it only outputs 240V, so I'd need a transformer
08:51 katsmeow-afk sure, cause yo can get 30amp@600v gto/igbt on ebay for ~$1
08:51 katsmeow-afk 240 from 192?
08:51 rue_bed $1 with free shipping?
08:51 rue_bed 240VAC from 192VDC
08:52 katsmeow-afk i didn't look at shipping for the single parts, i got 48vdc psus for 99cents ($15 s&h) with 14 parts in them, which worked out to < $1 per igbt, plus i got the snubbers and filters and heatsinks, fans, and parts
08:53 rue_bed I'll need your help when I run out of $1/free shipping
08:53 katsmeow-afk :-)
08:53 rue_bed * buy it now
08:54 tsmeow-afk looks up the part number of those 30amp
08:54 rue_bed selection is getting thin, most everything in the catagory is either a cover, case, or dust plug for an iphone
08:56 katsmeow-afk oh, i got some 700v 25amp triacs for real cheap too, butt hey are harder to turn off, they can be used in a h-bridge with pwm'd igbt driving the h-bridge
08:56 katsmeow-afk i don't have the part number written down here, and the open psus are upstairs
08:57 rue_bed ooo half the bridge with scr and the other with transistors, intersting
08:57 katsmeow-afk yeas, works ok as long as there's no ground faults to keep the scrs from turning off
08:58 katsmeow-afk scr is a npnp , ditto triacs, so Vdrop is higher
08:58 katsmeow-afk shame mosfets won't work like a triac
09:00 katsmeow-afk hmm, for the G30N60 , ebay is all ~$2.30 each
09:01 katsmeow-afk qty50 they drop to $2 each,, but all you need to fullwave bridge pwm 192v@30amp-rms is 8 transistors
09:02 katsmeow-afk that's only 3.6kw at 120vac-rms tho
09:04 katsmeow-afk do like i do, and filter 1200v 600amp arc welder parts from the mud ;-)
09:04 katsmeow-afk they's make a pwm'd 120/240vac @ 300amp-rms, or 72kw
09:05 katsmeow-afk 300amps, your batteries won't last long, but it's a hell of a surge rating anyhow
09:06 katsmeow-afk 300amp constant duty would need paralleled 4-0 Al SE cable to feed them, or something slightly bigger than 4-0 in copper
09:10 katsmeow-afk 2 pcs FUJI IGBT NEW 2MBI300J060 , $100 $60s&h(!??!) get 2 to make a 240vac150amp switcher
09:14 katsmeow-afk FUJI 6MBI20F-060 MODULE,IGBT(600V 20A) , $11.50 + $4 s&h
09:15 katsmeow-afk qty 4 HGTG27N120's for $16
09:16 katsmeow-afk $4 each, sorta pricey still
09:17 katsmeow-afk the G30N60's are cheaper, imho better to use 2x the cheaper parts and keep the temperature per part down
09:19 katsmeow-afk no one talking, i quit looking
09:24 katsmeow-afk i did figure once that buying 2000 2N7002 smt mosfets for 99 cents, to put 500 in parallel, would make a heck of a switcher (500amp h-bridge, no heatsink needed (just a fan))
09:28 katsmeow-afk you'd save money on the "no heatsink needed" part, plus they'd take up a *lot* less space
09:29 katsmeow-afk and weigh less
09:29 katsmeow-afk you could make the wings of a rc plane outa them
09:32 tsmeow-afk ponders the body of the plane made of flat lipo cells glued edge to edge, the tops of the wings made of solar cells, and the bottoms of the wings made of paralleled smt mosfet switchers driving the mo
09:37 katsmeow-afk hmm, qty 500 TIP30C, could make a 100amp@100v h-bridge for $15
10:29 e_bed is awake a
10:30 rue_bed ok, time to get up for robotics
10:30 rue_bed need to add a zero track to an epson encoder wheel
10:31 katsmeow-afk so i was talking to you and you were alseep
10:31 rue_bed I read up
10:32 rue_bed most of the driver I end up needing are in the 1 to 6A range
10:32 rue_bed I have call for a few ~30A
10:32 rue_bed and I dont know about the truck yet
10:32 tsmeow-afk notes that if one uses a 30mpg engine as a "boiler", at 100% efficency the steam engine attached to the boiler would give another 1
10:33 rue_bed :)
10:33 katsmeow-afk hmm, qty 500 TIP30C, could make a twelve 10amp@100v h-bridge for $15 total
10:34 katsmeow-afk hmm, qty 500 TIP30C, could make a 24 5amp@100v h-bridge for $15 total
10:35 katsmeow-afk that's well under $1 per h-bridge
10:36 tsmeow-afk shrugs and goes back out to do whatever she was d
11:01 rue_house a robot using a 1A motor is usually a bit small
11:06 rue_house this weekend:
11:06 rue_house o Documenting
11:06 rue_house o Calculating
11:07 rue_house o Electronics
11:07 rue_house o Graphics
11:07 rue_house o Procrastinating
11:07 rue_house o Repairing
11:17 AR_ wrong
11:31 GuShH katsmeow-afk: did you actually factor in the cost of PCB or matrix board + solder + labor + others?
11:31 GuShH transistors by themselves can't do anything useful other than become paperweights.
11:32 rue_house if its a do-it-yourself project anyhow, it dosn't matter
11:32 rue_house not everyone ships out boards to be made
11:32 GuShH shes always talking about costs but those figures are wrong.
11:32 rue_house your just interperting them wrong
11:32 GuShH who cares about the cost of one particular item
11:32 GuShH it's not relevant
11:33 GuShH you do not get a $x h-bridge with just transistors
11:33 rue_house what if evrything else is free?
11:33 GuShH nothing is ever free
11:33 rue_house yes there is
11:33 GuShH no
11:34 rue_house a stereo dropped off in the night at the doorstep has free resistors in it
11:34 ShH eyer
11:34 GuShH sure it fell off a truck
11:34 rue_house for $1 a usb bluetooth adapter can be bought, and commes with free shipping
11:34 rue_house GuShH, yes, looks like it did
11:35 GuShH it's not free, it's included in the price
11:35 GuShH you fool
11:35 rue_house pfff
11:35 rue_house no, the package that arrives says 0.000 yen
11:35 GuShH that's China for you.
11:35 rue_house on the postage
11:35 ShH eyer
11:35 rue_house it does
11:36 rue_house I was at the dump getting free firewood out of the woodpile
11:36 rue_house there was a scanner in there
11:36 rue_house a bit broken
11:36 rue_house but I threw it in
11:36 rue_house it was free
11:36 rue_house oops
11:36 e_house looks out the window at the light
11:37 rue_house and now its wet too, with FREE WATER!
11:37 rue_house it has a free motor, and a free lamp with a free inverter
11:37 rue_house comes with a lot of free broken glass
11:37 rue_house and a free smps controller
11:38 rue_house free abs to grind up and make into 3d printer filament
11:38 rue_house yes my friend, free is all around you
11:55 rue_shop3 ok well it turns out its the top of a multifunction, no motor drivers or inverters
11:55 rue_shop3 but its also led based
11:57 rue_shop3 oops
12:17 sw0rdfish hey
13:01 katsmeow-afk [10:49] <rue_house> a robot using a 1A motor is usually a bit small <<== who said anything about 1A motors? i said very cheap 1A transistors, in parallel to make 5amp and bigger switcher modules
13:02 katsmeow-afk GuShH, for the smd, yeas, i did
13:13 katsmeow-afk one design, iirc, was smaller, cheaper, lighter, and more efficient than a normal design
13:13 SavageSimian any solidworks gurus around?
13:14 katsmeow-afk the smd still dissipated heat, but there were so many of them the dissipation was under 1/4 w per
13:14 SavageSimian and for the one-size-answer fits all crowd; yes i did google and didn't find an answer.
13:14 GuShH SavageSimian: what makes you think this is the right channel? plus let me see your SW license first.
13:14 tsmeow-afk does not know if there are any solidworks gurus ar
13:15 SavageSimian i need to know how to override the intersecting contours error.
13:15 GuShH And I need to know if you are a thieving weasel or not.
13:16 SavageSimian GuShH i'll show you my license when you show me your solidworks lame asshole license monitor certification...
13:16 GuShH SavageSimian: Suck it thief.
13:16 GuShH Ain't helping you
13:16 SavageSimian also, it's a robotics forum. you'd think there would be some actual engineers here...
13:17 GuShH Oh so you are an actual engineer?
13:17 SavageSimian GuShH i doubt an idiot like you could help if i did show you my license...
13:17 katsmeow-afk lol. the active people here are all hobby people
13:17 GuShH Actually you are wrong.
13:17 katsmeow-afk those with licenses on anything cannot contribute due to NDAs
13:17 GuShH But since you clearly don't have a legal copy, I'm not helping you at all.
13:17 GuShH Good luck.
13:18 GuShH katsmeow-afk: It's a common problem, it's addressed in the training
13:18 SavageSimian actually, i don't care. you're obviously an ass and i don't want your help.
13:18 GuShH You can't have my help.
13:18 SavageSimian ty
13:18 GuShH Go back to 4chan
13:18 SavageSimian anyway, aside from the moron, anybody know about overriding contours?
13:18 GuShH katsmeow-afk: So are there any ripe tomatoes yet?
13:19 katsmeow-afk thee's training?
13:19 GuShH Yes, I'm a moron for stating a fact.
13:19 katsmeow-afk no, about 15 growing still green
13:19 GuShH katsmeow-afk: indeed.
13:19 SavageSimian katsmeow-afk there is no NDA in asking questions about procedures. that is about the internal workings of the app.
13:19 GuShH You don't just push commercial products after watching a couple tutorials on youtube, like this guy does.
13:20 GuShH Also, it's a clear case of someone seeing something done in X and that someone wanting X too.
13:20 GuShH They assume all you need is X to obtain Y.
13:20 katsmeow-afk yeas, if i do not count the beans, this makes my cost for this yr's roof garden at just under $10 per tomatoe, plus labor
13:20 GuShH They better be damn good tomatoes
13:21 katsmeow-afk i hope to do better next yr by planting in Spring, and making better dirt, and amortising the cost over a longer growing season, etc
13:21 GuShH katsmeow-afk: how much would it cost to turn the roof into a greenhouse?
13:21 katsmeow-afk too much
13:21 GuShH even by portions?
13:22 katsmeow-afk the cost of doing even more is irrelavant, a few days ago a guy down the highway was killed by the kind of dogs i tend to shoot, why would i dump more money into improving this place when i am building a boat?
13:23 GuShH this is your chance to kill all the dogs
13:23 GuShH and have them look at his family
13:23 katsmeow-afk http://www.abc3340.com/story/19600621/rottweiler-attack-in-leeds-leaves-man-dead
13:23 GuShH the trick now is into dumping the bodies on the highway.
13:24 katsmeow-afk i am not going over there, the deputies got attacked too, and they killed the two dogs, just as i would, and had animal control pick up the otehr 38 rotts
13:25 GuShH who the fuck has so many rotts
13:25 katsmeow-afk the trick is if the DA's office returns the 38 attack dogs to the owner and makes the dead man's family pay restitution to the dog owner
13:25 GuShH breeding for fight or sale?
13:25 katsmeow-afk i dunno and don't care why
13:25 GuShH the only reason you'd want one is for defense or to make it fight other dogs
13:25 GuShH people don't get them because of how they look.
13:26 katsmeow-afk in that case, it does not belong on anyone else's property
13:26 GuShH those and the dogos are insane breeds.
13:26 GuShH I should know, dogos are from where I'm from
13:26 katsmeow-afk people here get maimed, and at least every other year someone dies
13:27 katsmeow-afk a couple yrs ago a kid ran thru his grandpa's yard and was killed by the dogs on chains, the local DA's office did not persecute the man or take his dogs, they told the remaining kids to not run thru the yard
13:28 GuShH ....
13:29 GuShH katsmeow-afk: will you torch your place once you leave?
13:29 katsmeow-afk most likely
13:29 katsmeow-afk depends on things
13:29 GuShH try to sell it first, even for a dollar
13:29 GuShH then it suddenly catches on fire...
13:30 GuShH did you have to register the house as such?
13:30 katsmeow-afk if i can get a reverse mortgage on it, i'd prolly do that and then just abandon it
13:30 katsmeow-afk it's on the land plat
13:30 katsmeow-afk county has assessed it
13:30 GuShH here you can't build yourself anything without having it registered and granted
13:30 GuShH it's insane, even walls.
13:31 GuShH for some reason a wooden house does not need any certifications or legal documents at all though.
13:31 GuShH ie. sheds
13:32 katsmeow-afk in that case, i built a wooden shack and put steel-reinforced poured concrete windbreak around it ;-)
13:33 GuShH lol
13:34 GuShH bah, ran out of chain oil
14:00 rue_house we were able to connect two computers for serial data via bluetooth
14:09 GuShH ok?
16:54 tsmeow-afk needs more e-n
16:55 m_itx gives katsmeow-afk a couple fuel rods from a local nuke p
16:55 tsmeow-afk accepts them gracefully and drops the sunk nuke sub she was raising remo
16:55 katsmeow-afk oops, i didn't say that out loud
16:57 keepishop the libians!
16:58 katsmeow-afk where's the lesbians?!?
17:01 katsmeow-afk kool, two books on how Tektronix did the best of their magic: $10
17:08 katsmeow-afk "Learning How to Read For Dummies"
17:11 Tom_itx it's the 'no child left behind' policy
17:12 katsmeow-afk Last week, a working group under Osvaldo Almeida, an Australian professor of geriatric psychiatry at the University of Western Australia, in Perth, released the results of a long-term study of over 5,500 seniors. The finding: Study participants who used computers had over 30 percent less risk of developing dementia.
17:13 katsmeow-afk so come on, people and bots, get reading and talking about it!
17:19 katsmeow-afk speaking of the IgNobel prises, you know the first use for a bowling alley on the moon will be to see who can pee the farthest
17:21 katsmeow-afk reason to have manufacturing base on the moon: it will make building the Dyson Ring a lot easier
17:39 rue_house wow, I'm checking out the 8kva ups I got, of the 96 12V 5Ah batteries, 51 of them are at or above 60%
17:39 rue_house 8 are copletely melted
17:39 rue_house er 16 are completely melted
17:39 rue_house the rest are 5 to 40%
17:40 Tom_itx why did you get so many 608 bearings?
17:40 rue_house they are usefull for everything
17:40 Tom_itx did you have plans for them all
17:40 Tom_itx ?
17:40 rue_house always use them
17:40 Tom_itx how many did you get?
17:40 rue_house hmm
17:40 rue_house 10 or 20
17:40 Tom_itx i saw something interesting
17:41 rue_house a board?
17:41 rue_house did you saw a board?
17:41 Tom_itx no
17:41 rue_house oh :(
17:41 rue_house you should try it, the kids love it, and ya know, their right!
17:41 rue_house they like hammering nails too
17:42 Tom_itx how bout fingers?
17:42 rue_house a - - plug is 240V 15A right?
17:42 rue_house wonder what I have in 240 plugs
17:44 Tom_itx http://www.aliexpress.com/item/SC8UU-SCS8UU-8mm-Linear-Ball-Bearing-Motion-Bearing-CNC/570185254.html
17:44 Tom_itx pretty cheap for a mounted bearing
17:49 Tom_itx http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-4PCS-X-CNC-Router-SC16UU-SCS16UU-linear-ball-bearing-16mm-XYZ-table/602786031.html
17:49 Tom_itx 16mm 4 pieces
17:49 Tom_itx $29 shipped
19:23 Tom_itx it's funny when you can finally put a face to a few ppl on irc
19:23 Tom_itx generally nothing like what you may have pictured
19:31 katsmeow-afk is it better or worse when they have no faces?
19:32 Tom_itx meh
19:32 Tom_itx doesn't matter
19:38 rue_house I rather leave it to imagination
19:39 rue_house I should list some stuff on ebay
19:40 Tom_itx rue
19:40 Tom_itx garf
21:20 rue_house at somne point I have to swap my good ups back in
21:20 katsmeow-afk good point
21:21 rue_house I dont have a plug for the 240V ups
21:21 rue_house there is kinda one on a welder
21:21 rue_house hmm
21:22 rue_house I really need to clean this desk so I can re-arrange it
21:22 rue_house hmm this room has a lot of dead space
21:23 katsmeow-afk new wires are easy to run, new outlets put in, etc
21:23 rue_house if I start by....
21:23 rue_house no...
21:23 rue_house or by...
21:24 rue_house if...
21:24 rue_house hmmm
21:25 e_house moves the network sw
21:25 e_house moves a speaker to where the network switch
21:26 e_house tries to work out where to move a pile of pape
21:26 rue_house ok...
21:26 e_house installs an audio sw
21:27 rue_house powered instead from...
21:27 e_house moves the foot stool to change wirin
21:27 rue_house oh dear
21:28 e_house gets the vacuum cle
21:31 katsmeow-afk there's cat stool under the foot stool?
21:38 rue_house no
21:38 rue_house why is the mic amp on the UPS bar?
21:40 rue_house input goes to the.... output...
22:15 rue_shop3 kat do you know why they never put grounds on audio gear?
22:17 katsmeow-afk most electrical systems have grounds not well coupled together
22:18 katsmeow-afk if you tie them togther thru th audo system, the humm level changes if someone turns on a lite , the toaster, etc
22:18 katsmeow-afk and way back when, home electronics had no gnd pin on the power cord because (at least in the usa) most homes had no grounded outlets
22:20 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop3: ground loops
22:21 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop3: basically you have mains ground, plus various signal grounds all going from one piece of equipment to another.. individually they're fine, but together they form shorted loop antennas and can generate quite significant currents due to impinging EM fields
22:21 katsmeow-afk use a dvm to measure the gnd on one 120vac circuit to the gnd on another 120vac circuit
22:22 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop3: a lot of audio gear removes the ground connections to solve this, however that makes it rather unsafe.. a better solution is to put a resistor in the ground path to reduce the loop current from amps to milliamps, then put a shorted diode bridge over the resistor so that in a fault there's a path for mains voltages
22:22 katsmeow-afk it shold be zero, but seldom is
22:22 katsmeow-afk diodes or a low volt varistor
22:22 Triffid_Hunter katsmeow-afk: ground loops happen even between equipment that's all plugged into the same group of outlets or power board
22:23 katsmeow-afk i know, but ,, fuck it, i have measured ground currents in hospitals for a living, i dunno you can teach me any more
22:24 katsmeow-afk if i screwed up, peole could die, no one died
22:24 Triffid_Hunter yeah I know about the offsets between outlets too, that can be pretty crazy at times
22:41 katsmeow-afk dinner, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
23:02 theBear i've had to warranty-modify single units thats generate multiple nasty ground loops inside themselves
23:04 katsmeow-afk me too, once at a concert , noon before the show went on that nite the oem "oh yeas, fix that, we'll cover cost", instead i jumperd the pins on the remote psu box
23:06 katsmeow-afk there just wasn't time to open the mixer and mod the pcbs
23:06 katsmeow-afk the problem were truely in he psu tho, they had carefully avoided using a star ground layout
23:09 theBear erg, stupid humans... here i am forced to fire off various threats on a sunday morning just to get things like cigarettes and cash back off of 'friends' and associates who 'promised' they'd be returned at various times other than now.... maybe the problem is this town has never seen me REALLY pissed off in the last 15 years.... they won't like me when i'm angry
23:10 theBear see, a savage monkey is NOTHING next to an angry bear
23:11 tsmeow-afk nods sl
23:11 SavageSimian an angry bear is nothing next to a divorcee looking for her alimony check.
23:12 theBear heh, point her this way, you don't ever gotta worry about that happening again
23:13 theBear i been aching to beat someone into life-in-hospital all week, she'll do fine
23:13 SavageSimian you'll pay my alimony? :o cool. ty. :p
23:13 rue_shop2 did anyone stop to notice american plug spades are 1/4" wide?
23:13 rue_shop2 the same as 1/4" spade lugs?
23:13 katsmeow-afk nope, notices, but didn't stop,, thee are some .187 too
23:14 rue_shop2 this power supply will be easy
23:14 e_shop2 works out where to put the phone charger in the
23:14 eBear needs a fricking cigar
23:14 Atak as much as I got screwed, Im glad I dont have alimony to pay
23:15 theBear hehe, that could be taken so many ways
23:16 Atak lol
23:16 SavageSimian actually, my alimony days are long gone but i did pay thru the nose. i suspect it was more due to my weak lawyer rather then her good one.
23:16 SavageSimian i think he might have wanted to bone the pig himself.
23:16 rue_shop2 kat, +- 5V 1A should do for a supply to 4051 to switch audio yes?
23:17 theBear lol
23:17 rue_shop2 bear?
23:17 theBear rue_shop2, should be loads
23:17 rue_shop2 ok
23:18 theBear just remember not to get too carried away with signal levels
23:18 rue_shop2 1:1 no gain
23:18 rue_shop2 just switching
23:18 theBear hmmm, wonder how you drive cmos 5v below gnd
23:18 katsmeow-afk 79L05
23:19 theBear i didn't say gain, i just, well it's 4 lines above this, you can read it
23:19 rue_shop2 the chips will have 10V across them
23:19 rue_shop2 gnd is 0V
23:19 rue_shop2 so signal levels are +- 1V
23:19 rue_shop2 gives 4V head room
23:19 rue_shop2 ?
23:19 theBear that's what i said
23:22 home rue
23:22 home you wakey? XD
23:23 rue_shop2 yea
23:24 rue_shop2 hmm maybe not gain, but if I put in a set of dacs I can do digital attenuation
23:24 rue_shop2 input vref
23:25 theBear use more 405?'s with resistors for attenuation
23:25 theBear it's the thinking mans logic controlled attenuator
23:25 rue_shop2 sure I have some 8 bit dacs around
23:25 theBear don't waste a dac
23:25 rue_shop2 408x
23:25 rue_shop2 there is a good question
23:25 rue_shop2 er 4051?
23:26 rue_shop2 whats 1>4 x 2?
23:26 theBear 4051 should do umm, 8bit or so
23:26 rue_shop2 no
23:26 rue_shop2 that just 8>1
23:27 rue_shop2 4052
23:27 rue_shop2 is 4->1 x 2
23:27 rue_shop2 hmm
23:27 rue_shop2 I wanted 8->1 I'd have to use two chips anyhow
23:27 rue_shop2 4051 would reduce crosstalk
23:28 theBear i'm talking about a digital attenuator
23:28 theBear r2r style
23:29 home if only
23:29 home I had an idea about what you guys were talking about most o the time XD
23:30 home lol
23:31 rue_shop2 hmm I have a lot of 4053
23:31 rue_shop2 i have a LOT of 4066
23:31 rue_shop2 4053 is 3x 2->1
23:32 home 0_0
23:33 theBear i know my 405? series rue !
23:44 rue_shop3 yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaars ago, I started work on an 8? by 4? audio cross switch...
23:46 rue_shop3 found it
23:47 rue_shop3 its a 5x7 mixed
23:47 rue_shop3 7 volume controls
23:48 rue_shop3 damn I didn't fill it with the parts I had at the time
23:52 rue_shop3 the old one is big, so I'm gonna finish the new one, which is only 1U