#robotics Logs

Aug 30 2012

00:03 katsmeow-afk i think my wire labled 18awg is really 20awg
01:42 rue_house wow, visitors galore, sorry
01:42 katsmeow-afk how to cram 16 TO-246 transistors, their heatsinks (2 electrically hot heatsinks fastened together, and insulated mounting tabs), and the wiring, into a 3x3x2 inch brick : http://designerthinking.com/images/benchpsu/DSCF2945m.jpg
01:42 rue_house Tom_itx, got the firmware reinstalled
01:42 rue_house had to redownload and compile from scratch
01:43 katsmeow-afk !ping
01:44 katsmeow-afk Yahoo News has fired its Washington bureau chief for saying White House hopeful Mitt Romney was "happy to have a party with black people drowning".
01:44 katsmeow-afk Caught on an open microphone, David Chalian was discussing Hurricane Isaac
04:03 Tom_itx so rue_house, how do you load the project into their environment and compile it?
07:04 GuShH http://www.goodluckbuy.com/mini-usb-download-programmer-debugger-for-avr-jtag-ice-atmega-avr-studio-64-digit.html
07:05 GuShH can't beat china.
07:06 chris_99 are AVRs all programmed with JTAG?
07:07 GuShH chris_99: it's not very useful for newer devices, but for an extra 3 bucks you can get a nicer one
07:07 chris_99 cool, i just paid �30 for a pickit3
07:09 GuShH chris_99: from where?
07:09 chris_99 actually it was �35 even, farnell
07:09 GuShH ouch
07:11 GuShH chris_99: checkout sure-electronics
07:11 GuShH they're clones, but it's the same thing
07:11 Triffid_Hunter heh i got my smd rework station from them, have already fixed some bad joints with my other soldering iron in it
07:11 Triffid_Hunter there's a certain irony in a soldering iron with poor solder joints in it
07:11 GuShH lol
07:12 GuShH chinese products are projects.
07:12 GuShH you always have to fix them or get them right
07:12 GuShH then again you get what you pay for.
07:13 wan26 Hi people
07:16 GuShH hi wan26 you
07:22 chris_99 just looking at the sure electronics site, they've got some interesting stuff
07:23 chris_99 such as a mini thermal printer with a TTL interface
07:23 Triffid_Hunter GuShH: yeah I totally get that, scored hot air and fine-tip iron station for $66
07:23 Triffid_Hunter don't mind doing a little touch-up if it means I don't have to pay $300
07:28 delinquentme hey all ... I need a permanent way to sink a female threaded tube into a concrete casting ... without having it pull out
07:33 delinquentme actually if I had just a female internally threaded rod with a collar .. that would be awesome
07:33 delinquentme special names for these?
07:34 theBear heh, i just saw if i had, female, with a collar, awesome, i was excited for a moment there
07:36 delinquentme =P
07:36 delinquentme or how about internally threaded rubber feet?
07:37 delinquentme like rubber feet that have metal threads affixed inside of them
07:40 delinquentme http://www.reidsupply.com/sku/FRB-203/
07:40 delinquentme dingo!
10:23 Tom_itx dare i ask what that's for?
10:30 GuShH hahaha another java security flaw.
10:30 ShH r
10:31 GuShH "they recommend disabling Java in your browser" ... I recommend uninstalling it and never look back.
10:32 GuShH theBear: females and collars eh?
10:32 GuShH ropes involved?
10:52 Paradoxia Java is basically retarded
10:52 GuShH Paradoxia: as are those who program in it
10:52 GuShH and those who support it.
10:52 Paradoxia They removed certain important features from the language because people don't know how to use them
10:52 GuShH and they swear by it
10:52 GuShH Java should be put down already.
10:53 Paradoxia In Java, a class can only inherit from one other class
10:53 Paradoxia Which leads to messy code
10:53 ShH is boiling today but not because of
10:53 Paradoxia Also, no operator overloading
10:53 Paradoxia Which is a vital feature if you're writing special datatypes
10:54 GuShH Some retarded bike seller decided to talk shit and call me an "ignorant" who "doesn't know anything about bikes" because he had an error where the auction showed 15.000KM and then he stated it was 0KM (ie. brand new) so I argued the resell price of a bike made in India cannot be the same of, say, a Yamaha. Since the price corresponded to a brand new bike. He went nuts.
10:54 theBear he didn't mention ropes
10:55 GuShH If he dares call to talk shit I'll go over there and shove something up his arse, I'm sick of these idiots.
10:55 Paradoxia Also, generics in Java are awkward
10:56 Paradoxia And then there's like a million other problems I'm going to try not to rant about
10:58 GuShH Paradoxia: then why do you keep using it
10:58 Paradoxia I don't
10:58 GuShH otherwise why would you even know about it.
10:59 GuShH you don't care about things you don't use.
10:59 Paradoxia Well, I mean, I only use it when I have to
10:59 Paradoxia When other people decide to use it for a project
10:59 Paradoxia And I get stuck working with it
10:59 GuShH no one "has" to use java
13:41 katsmeow-afk 4. Foordbone Illness Sickens 100 Across 16 States
13:41 katsmeow-afk Federal health officials are investigating a foodborne illness that has sickened more than 100 people in at least 16 states.
13:41 katsmeow-afk i swear....
16:33 katsmeow-afk in 11 minutes, qty 900 of http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/9318/NSC/PC97338VJG.html will sell for $20 on ebay
16:38 ShH_ wonders how much art one can make with 900 pi
16:39 chris_99b what is it katsmeow-afk - my web is being naff
16:40 LoRez also, the deep link won't permit the viewing.
16:41 katsmeow-afk then look up PC97338VJG
16:42 katsmeow-afk it's a dual serial / IR / floppy controller / IEEE-something port / parallel port / configureable interrupt controller / etc chip
16:42 GuShH_ it's something you glue on a wall and call it art.
16:42 katsmeow-afk use it to connect the world to your avr
16:43 LoRez wtf do you have 900 of them?
16:43 katsmeow-afk wtf did i say i have 900 of them!?!
16:46 LoRez are you buying 900 of them?
16:46 katsmeow-afk no
17:55 orlok Triffid_Hunter: heart gear worked nicely, thankyou!
19:39 rue_bed I dont want to have to write the library to use it
20:30 eadthem +1 random for rue_bed
20:39 Tom_itx rue_bed, pics to follow...
20:40 katsmeow-afk i don't wanna see pics of rue ini bed
20:46 Tom_itx i think he's asleep anyway
20:52 ace4016 kats, afraid you might see something like this? http://farm1.staticflickr.com/57/180002410_cf2daa686e_o.jpg
20:56 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/reprap/nozzle7.jpg
20:56 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/reprap/nozzle8.jpg
20:56 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/reprap/nozzle9.jpg
20:56 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/reprap/nozzle10.jpg
21:04 Tom_itx Triffid_Hunter
21:04 Tom_itx any thoughts?
21:06 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: what's the barrel material? stainless steel?
21:06 Tom_itx 303
21:06 Tom_itx yes
21:06 Triffid_Hunter looks good
21:06 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: how much flat area do you have around the nozzle orifice?
21:06 Tom_itx it was a stuggle to machine that on my old worn out lathe
21:07 Triffid_Hunter want a ~1mm diameter flat around the orifice to smooth down the extruded bead
21:07 Tom_itx not alot but some
21:07 Tom_itx yeah
21:07 Triffid_Hunter heh I bet, SS is a bitch to machine I'm told because it work hardens
21:07 Tom_itx maybe not quite that much
21:07 Tom_itx but i can fix that
21:07 Tom_itx it wasn't as bad as some i've worked with
21:07 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: I'm keen to see how that SS barrel goes.. is it heavy?
21:07 Tom_itx a bit heaver that i'd like
21:08 Tom_itx i didn't weigh it
21:08 Triffid_Hunter can probably make the fins thinner
21:08 Tom_itx and i wish i could have thinned the fins more but i was luck to get that good
21:08 Tom_itx i have more material i can play with
21:08 Tom_itx i may go back and thin them a bit more
21:08 Tom_itx and make em a tad deeper
21:08 Triffid_Hunter nice.. heat that nozzle up to 250c, let it soak for a while, see what the temp at the top of the SS is
21:09 Triffid_Hunter you want it <40c.. fan-assisted cooling is pretty common if it's not quite that good
21:09 Tom_itx well even working on the piece i could tell a big difference from one end to the other
21:09 Tom_itx compared to other materials
21:09 Tom_itx i think thinning the fins may help more too
21:10 Triffid_Hunter yeah SS has terrible thermal conduction vs other metals, but the existing SS barrel designs all have either very thin constrictions (50 micron) or substantial heatsinking at the top
21:11 Triffid_Hunter dropping 200c over the thermal break is beyond even SS to do without some help unless the break is pretty amazing!
21:11 Tom_itx i wonder why someone hasn't tried ceramic
21:12 Tom_itx maybe it's too hard to work with
21:13 Triffid_Hunter I hear whispers of ceramics frequently, never seems to go anywhere though
21:17 orlok Triffid_Hunter: Showed the GF the bits of the heart, she was all "WTF, why are you giving me a broken heart?!?"
21:17 orlok put it together and she was all "OMG THATS INCREDIBLE!"
21:23 Triffid_Hunter orlok: win! :D
21:49 rue_bed Triffid_Hunter, I bet my quarts can do 200c
21:49 rue_bed quarts is 1/7 the thermal conductivity of ss
21:50 Tom_itx i posted that data earlier
21:50 Tom_itx themal properties of metals and other materials
21:51 rue_bed I need to calibrate my temp probe
21:51 rue_bed then I can do a plastic melting test
21:51 Triffid_Hunter rue_bed: remains to be seen if quartz is strong enough to survive the knocks and bumps from printing :)
21:51 rue_bed Triffid_Hunter, no, I changed it
21:51 rue_bed the tip isn't quratz
21:51 Tom_itx rue_bed did you see my progress?
21:51 rue_bed !assist projects/reprap
21:51 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/reprap
21:51 rue_bed Triffid_Hunter, look at hte last ~8 images
21:52 rue_bed Tom_itx, no
21:52 m_itx encourages rue_bed to scrol
21:52 rue_bed web browser on this thing is horrid
21:52 rue_bed I;; prolly get up soon
21:52 rue_bed I'm napped out
21:53 rue_bed the roommate was laid off
21:53 Triffid_Hunter rue_bed: heh resembles arcol v3
21:53 rue_bed *ugh*
21:53 rue_bed Triffid_Hunter, ???
21:53 rue_bed I took all the properties of all the things I liked, thats the result
21:54 rue_bed the tip mass isn't too large, I think faster thermal responce is better
21:55 Triffid_Hunter rue_bed: am keen to see your results :)
21:55 rue_bed I did a test last week, continious operation at "55c" which was enough to seriously sizzle spit, so I need to calibrate it
21:55 rue_bed me too
21:56 rue_bed the heater responce time is amazing
21:56 rue_bed as soon as any part of it loses even a little heat the heater reacts right away
21:57 rue_bed hitting it with a big drop of water it only lost 2c on the temp worst case
21:57 Triffid_Hunter lovely
21:57 Triffid_Hunter how much power you got in the heater?
21:57 rue_bed 5.1R
21:57 Triffid_Hunter on a totally unrelated note, I just had an interesting idea.. got a cortex-m3 breakout with a max3232 on it, wonder if I can drive sonar with it
21:58 Triffid_Hunter rue_bed: 28w is good
21:58 rue_bed cool
21:58 rue_bed I'v yet to insulate it
21:58 Tom_itx http://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm
21:58 Tom_itx http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
21:58 rue_bed quarts is ~1
21:58 Triffid_Hunter rue_bed: 2engineers.com have 30w cartridge heaters, 6mm diameter x 20mm long specifically for reprap use
21:59 rue_bed ss is ~7, std steel is ~17
21:59 orlok Triffid_Hunter: I'm curious though, the few little imperfections, some looks like the air heating up has caused a bubble to pop through the well
21:59 Tom_itx quartz is 3
21:59 Triffid_Hunter heh and alu is like 80something yeah?
21:59 Tom_itx more than that
21:59 Tom_itx like 180
21:59 orlok Triffid_Hunter: but the others seem regular, like theres noise in the extruded gear making it drive faster for a fraction of a second every so often?
21:59 rue_bed Triffid_Hunter, have you studdied the cross section of an operated glue-gun?
22:00 Tom_itx 250
22:00 orlok extruder gear, even
22:00 Triffid_Hunter orlok: that's the layer change point
22:00 Triffid_Hunter orlok: if you're referring to what I think you are.. tiny blobs of excess plastic in the perimeter?
22:00 orlok yeah, two tiny extra blobs side by side
22:01 orlok less than a mm apart
22:01 Triffid_Hunter are they on different layers or the same layer?
22:01 orlok the two blobs are on the same layer, and there can be multiples on the same layer
22:01 Triffid_Hunter anyway, the printing process always gives a few minor imperfections, if you want perfect surface you need to injection mold
22:02 Triffid_Hunter orlok: hm will keep an eye out
22:04 orlok http://182.160.128.150/100_3304_2.jpg
22:04 rue_bed that what I should do, go get my stepper drivers going
22:04 orlok Triffid_Hunter: Yeah, i understand that completely, thats part of the reason why i wanted to get some random parts made just to see how it looked
22:05 orlok Triffid_Hunter: each one of those little lines it actually two tiny blobs side by side
22:06 rue_bed :) hit it with a heat gun shen your done :)
22:07 orlok Triffid_Hunter: i was thinking if i wanted it to be "perfect" spray putty might work
22:12 rue_bed my drivers aren't dir/step
22:12 rue_bed need some state machines
22:13 rue_bed do the microstepping
22:14 Tom_itx get those allegro chips
22:14 rue_bed from the epson printers?
22:15 Tom_itx those are toshiba aren't they?
22:15 rue_bed A39xx?
22:16 Tom_itx that's allegro
22:16 Tom_itx A4982 is the good one
22:17 rue_bed if you can remember WAAAAY back, puff sent me some
22:17 Tom_itx http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/A4982SLPTR-T/620-1352-1-ND/2295513
22:17 rue_bed we were gonna make the ultimate robot controller
22:17 Tom_itx i'm not as old as you
22:17 Tom_itx remember?
22:17 rue_bed you were there I'm sure
22:18 Tom_itx the 3981 is obsolete now
22:18 rue_bed it was in the beginning of #avr
22:18 Tom_itx i think that was it
22:18 Tom_itx i have a bunch of those too though
22:18 Tom_itx 3A driver
22:18 Tom_itx i think
22:18 rue_bed I have some hybrid driver modules too
22:19 Tom_itx that A4982 has microstepping iirc
22:19 e_bed stret
22:19 Tom_itx and it's not that expensive
22:19 Tom_itx 2A driver
22:20 rue_house they use 16x microstepping on the machines by default, but I doub the motors repaond much to it
22:20 Tom_itx mine do
22:20 Tom_itx it's actually kinda cool
22:20 rue_house you *always* get movement of 1/16step from 1 step?
22:21 Tom_itx mine are 10 microstep
22:21 rue_house it will smooth out running steps
22:21 Tom_itx i can give it a damn low feedrate
22:21 Tom_itx like F0.001
22:22 rue_house even with half stepping I dont expect much
22:22 Tom_itx mine has a dsp in it though
22:22 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: the microstepping does far more for numerical precision in the firmware than physical precision, also noise reduction and lower torque requirements due to smoother movement
22:22 Tom_itx i dunno what all it's doing
22:22 Tom_itx i know the geckos are real smooth
22:22 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: the actual physical offset swings back and forth with microstepping but it pulls in properly every half step
22:23 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: I tried half stepping my Z for a while.. was so damn loud it sounded like I'd hooked a speaker direct to mains
22:23 Tom_itx the only thing i wish the allegro chip had would be idle current reduction
22:23 rue_house Triffid_Hunter, its almost just acting as a vfd
22:23 Triffid_Hunter with 16x microstep it's very quiet
22:23 Tom_itx i haven't read the data sheet yet
22:23 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: smoothieboard can have idle current reduction since it uses a digipot to set stepper current
22:23 Tom_itx the other day digikey didn't have those chips
22:24 rue_house http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-LM2596-DC-Step-Down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-/270747450868?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f09ce3df4
22:24 rue_house mod cor current regulation from outside source, use 4
22:24 rue_house still leages cheaper than a microstepping 2A driver
22:24 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: member of a local hackerspace got a ton of that module from alibaba, was on-selling them for $4/ea
22:25 Triffid_Hunter they're pretty neat, won't give 3A though without some extra heatsinking
22:25 Tom_itx mm mouser doesn't sell allegro
22:26 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: they seem to work well, that's a great price
22:26 rue_house I'm really on the fence, they are a great price, but right now I dont *need* them
22:27 rue_house I have a bunch of 24 -> 5V@10A modules
22:27 Triffid_Hunter rue_house: I'm gonna grab a set I think, I got 3 of them already and they happily drive servos. the LM2596 is a nice chip if you don't mind 150khz switch freq
22:27 rue_house about the size of 2 postage stamps
22:28 rue_house carefull, thats a set of 10
22:29 Tom_itx looks alot like that one trif helped me lay out ages ago
22:29 Triffid_Hunter yep I saw that, $15 is steep for one :)
22:29 Tom_itx only mine is fixed 5v
22:31 rue_house so they stole your design, modded it, and are selling it to the world at a price we cant understand how they make any money at
22:32 rue_house but honestly, there isn't much room for variation there
22:34 katsmeow-afk i can understand you *cannot* make money selling them for that price, because you cannot ship them at that price even if you gave them away
22:43 katsmeow-afk i have often said, to myself because there's no one else here, the usa was supposed to have great ideas and make money off the *idea*, then cheap labor was to mass produce them so *everyone* can afford them,, but copyrights/trademarks changed that
22:44 katsmeow-afk tv news last week did a spot on crates of shoes from China going to chippers and furnaces because they weren't made in Italy, weren't going to be sold for $1200 a pair, and were in fact better built shoes,, because someone thought they looked too much like a popular shoe only rich people can afford
22:57 katsmeow-afk ...
23:09 katsmeow-afk so i pissed everyone off again?