#robotics Logs

Aug 15 2012

00:01 orlok rue_house: i have
00:05 rue_house what the hack is going wrong
00:05 rue_house its making me enter the passphrase
00:05 rue_house not helpfull
00:05 orlok oh, passphrase for your RSA key?
00:06 rue_house yes
00:06 orlok did you enter a passphrase when you generated your RSA keys?
00:06 rue_house but the idea is that I dont hav to enter anyting
00:06 rue_house yea
00:06 rue_house something said to
00:06 orlok yeah, thats would be why.. i normally dont generate a passphrase
00:06 rue_house ok
00:06 orlok there may be a way to get it to read them from a file
00:06 orlok or unlock it only once
00:07 rue_house but I tried one without a passphrase and it asked me the passphrase, when i hit enter it asked me the password
00:07 orlok put id_rsa.pub into .ssh/authorized_keys in the home directory of the remote user you are trying to log in as
00:07 rue_house did
00:07 rue_house I"ll try it w/ rsa, no pass
00:08 rue_house why did that work!?
00:08 rue_house ok whatever
00:08 rue_house thanks :)
00:09 rue_house now I ownder why it takes so long...
00:12 orlok rue_house: turn off GSS authentication in sshd config, and make sure each system has a host entry for the other
00:12 SavageSimian anybody know if there's an IRC channel for PIC programming?
00:15 furrywolf here or ##electronics
00:16 rue_house whats gss
00:17 furrywolf ... fucking BMW. the climate controls have an oxidizable gas sensor, that measures NO, CO, etc, to automatically switch the climate controls to recirculate when behind a truck.
00:17 rue_house ah, its the screwed up DNS
00:17 SavageSimian t. i'm a pic noob. never programmed one but thought i'd start on the cheap. got some pic16f54's and a chinese programmer off ebay. it turns out the chinese aren't all that great at documenting their PIC programmer ripoffs (who knew).
00:18 orlok http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Security_Services_Application_Program_Interface
00:19 SavageSimian anyway, anybody know anything about - or have helpful links - for the K150 PIC programmer?
00:21 furrywolf not I, sorry.
00:21 orlok SavageSimian: no, sorry - one of the reasons i like arduino's is its standalong with no programmer needed
00:23 SavageSimian orlok: yea. that would be an entire demo board right? i was hoping for something i could squeeze into a space about 1" x 1" x 0.5". the SOIC chips i have are going to be packed into a robot arm...
00:23 orlok SavageSimian: yeah, these are about 1"x2", but that includes a lot of other cruft.. people have run them just as a chip
00:25 SavageSimian orlok: and you can program em in circuit without any kind of hardware?
00:25 orlok yup, program via USB
00:26 SavageSimian and they cost 24 cents apiece? :p
00:26 furrywolf with their special tools and special language.
00:26 furrywolf unless you want to hide from the real world, avoid them.
00:27 furrywolf brb
00:27 SavageSimian sorry. goofy reply. i got a bunch of the pic16's for very cheap. got a bunch of motors i want to make controllers for...
00:29 SavageSimian furrywolf: are you talking about PIC's? if so, it seems to me they are far more established then AVR with a wider selection of on chip capabilities across the range of chips. at any rate, that's a religious war. i'm just interested in making a PIC control a motor...
00:40 furrywolf no, I'm talking about arduino.
00:40 SavageSimian ah. ok, ty.
00:56 rrywolf curls up next to katsmeow-
01:16 e_bed is glad things are at least up to 'nor
01:49 seravitae hmm
01:49 seravitae can normal steel scratch stainless steel and cause it to rust?
01:50 seravitae I have some steel tube but stainless joiners, wondering if its going to be a problem.
02:17 theos stainless steel wont rust
03:27 theBear rue_house, the idea is you can have it with the cert AND a password to i dunno, confirm the cert, or just a cert with no password
03:28 theBear just make sure the user that owns the passwordless cert is far from accesssible, ie. don't let it be a user on a firewall, cos in theory that user can be comprimised and then yer whole network is comprimised
04:33 seravitae theos - that's not true if it's been damaged i think though.
04:33 seravitae isnt there some rule in workshops that you can't use wire brushes on stainless that have been used on other metals, as it causes the stainless to lose it's stainless-ness?
04:34 theos seravitae if its rusting in normal conditions, its not stainless steel
04:34 theos it must be electroplated steel
04:35 seravitae ok
04:35 theos seravitae stainless steel is an alloy. and an alloy has uniform composition throughout
04:36 seravitae i gatheredas much, I just wasn't sure if contamination with other compositions or elements could have drastic effects to it. i know that contamination of certain metal alloys with other metals can cause brittling and damage.
04:38 theos dont think so unless you are talking about galvanic rusting
04:40 theos it still needs some sort of electrolyte. water is one
04:44 theos seravitae you can put some insulation between the 2 metals to stop rusting if any. paint is good option if you are afraid. also, you dont have to scratch the surface to start the rusting. it will happen on its own if it has to
09:58 GuShH Because quads were not lame enough... http://www.goodluckbuy.com/carbon-fiber-octa-copter-8-rotor-heavy-lift-multicopter-multi-rotor-aircraft-1000mm-wheelbase.html
10:58 furrywolf I've seen plenty of stainless steel rust. Getting it hot is one sure way.
10:59 furrywolf buying it from china is another way. :)
11:53 GuShH stainless can easily rust if you contaminate it, specially if you try to solder it with regular steel or if you grind or cut it with a disc that's been used with steel.
12:46 i-make-robots hi, reprap. I've got a known-to-work mendelmax plugged into a windows machine for the first time and windows is not recognizing the device. I've installed drivers for arduinos in the past, so I'm wondering what I'm missing.
12:53 theos wrong channel
12:54 i-make-robots damnit, i said /join #reprap.
12:54 i-make-robots wtf.
12:54 i-make-robots thanks.
12:55 theos ikr
14:18 i-make-robots got on hackaday with this! http://www.marginallyclever.com/2012/08/skycam-assembly-gallery-and-robot-debugging/
14:19 GuShH i-make-robots: anyone gets on HaD
14:20 GuShH I mean... congratz.
14:21 GuShH You just lost all respect by using both java and arduino, sorry.
14:21 GuShH It's the worst combination anyone could possibly come up with.
14:38 Skwint give the guy some credit for actually doing SOMETHING
14:39 Skwint instead of playing games written in java and linking someone elses arduino robot
14:39 Skwint hell, making a robot with javascript and cardboard would put you in the top 5%
14:53 GuShH Skwint: you should focus on defending yourself and not others. guys like you get punched first.
14:54 GuShH my point is anyone gets on that site, if you are doing things just to get there you are doing them for the wrong reason
15:12 Skwint I can't complain about the great mass of humanity sitting around doing nothing and being stupid
15:12 Skwint and then discourage everyone who tries to do something simply because they weren't born experts
15:13 Skwint and a web site that exists to encourage people to do stuff can't really be considered bad just because it encourages people to do stuff.
15:15 lostcauz congrats i-make-robots
15:20 GuShH Skwint: You got it all wrong, but that's OK.
15:45 furrywolf I really hate hackaday, so couldn't care less if you "got" (like it's a good thing) on there.
15:46 GuShH furrywolf: would lower compression due to a lose sparkplug cause (aside from less overall power) a slower WOT speed?
15:47 furrywolf it would have to be a very loose spark plug, and WOT is usually limited (on anything but small 2-strokes) by valve float and/or destruction.
15:47 GuShH specifically on small 2 strokes
15:48 GuShH but also interested in 4 stroke. since I remembered a story my friend told me about a sparkplug shooting out of his engine in the middle of the road.
15:49 GuShH I found it hilarious.
15:49 GuShH (but hard to believe)
15:50 furrywolf and of course, rather than java and arduino, moving a point in 3d with strings is easy to do with emc2/linuxcnc and standard hardware, avoiding the evilness of said two items...
15:51 furrywolf it happens pretty commonly. usually either a plug is overtightened, or is put in with no antiseize in an aluminum head, and strips the threads out when removed.
15:51 ShH pouts and wants a lathe, and a m
15:51 furrywolf and with ~1000psi, a spark plug with a half square inch surface area has 500lbs trying to remove it from the head... and if the threads are stripped...
15:52 GuShH I'm not sure if he drove home without the sparkplug, I do know he stopped to find it and spent a good amount of time doing that.
15:53 furrywolf I once stopped to help someone on the side of the road... they asked me if I had any loctite, as a plug had come out. I said no, but I have jbweld. they declined. :)
15:53 GuShH I wouldn't worry about the sparkplug, plus I don't think you could just put it back on if it just got shot out, something broke!
15:53 GuShH lol
15:53 furrywolf as long as the ceramic didn't crack, you can put it back in... how long it stays in is another matter.
15:54 furrywolf it's virtually always due to stripped threads in the head. with loctite or epoxy, you can make them stay in a while...
15:54 furrywolf the proper fix is re-tapping and helicoiling the head.
15:54 GuShH heh
15:55 GuShH the plug on one of my small engines has a tiny bit of insulator missing, I need to replace it. not sure why it happened since it doesn't run too hot and the mixture is just fine. I wonder if it was defective to begin with, seeing as I can't identify the brand...
15:56 GuShH wouldn't want it to shatter entirely and ruin the engine.
15:56 GuShH thoughts?, aside from buying a brand-name plug next time :p
15:57 i-make-robots GuShH - care to share some of your robot projects?
15:57 i-make-robots i'd like to see something you made people are buying.
15:57 i-make-robots i mean, i want to know what your respect is worth.
15:58 furrywolf bbl, late for work
15:59 GuShH i-make-robots: I don't build robots, certainly don't sell them. What people buy from me is none of your business by the way. I meant respect in general, you are playing with toys.
15:59 GuShH And they feature anything on the site, so anyone gets in it.
15:59 GuShH Thus it's not an achievement.
15:59 i-make-robots you sound jealous.
15:59 i-make-robots and petty.
15:59 GuShH I have been in HaD.
15:59 GuShH So no, kid.
15:59 chris_99 HaD?
15:59 GuShH I proved that point actually.
15:59 Skwint when people won't tell me what they do I tend to assume they work for a secret government spy department
15:59 Skwint but I can't read what you just said and not think "prostitute" :)
15:59 i-make-robots you only proved you lash out at people at the drop of a hat.
16:00 GuShH Why would I be jealous of a couple steppers, some pizza string and java? holy shit boy.
16:00 GuShH Skwint: haha
16:00 GuShH Skwint: or drug dealer...
16:00 i-make-robots he was talking to you.
16:00 GuShH Yeah, all sorts of shady things. Not really.
16:00 GuShH i-make-robots: and I should take offense why?
16:00 GuShH Unlike you, I can take it.
16:01 i-make-robots yep, you got me. I can't take it. I worked damn hard and people love what i make and when a poser like you wants to tell me i'm shit you're damn right I take offense. who the fuck cares if I used "little" shit? It works, it sells, I can now afford to make bigger better robots. have to start somewhere.
16:02 GuShH lawl.
16:02 i-make-robots since you say you don't build robots, wtf are you doing here?
16:02 GuShH i-make-robots: You don't have a say of who is here and why. So go back to your mom's basement.
16:02 Tom_itx GuShH are you causing troble again?
16:03 GuShH How is what you did "working hard", or is this to your standards?
16:03 GuShH Tom_itx: entirely, or not. Depends on how you see it and based on how others think, it's half and half.
16:03 i-make-robots GuShH - i asked you why you're here. i didn't say leave. I'm just wondering why you chose to troll here, of all places.
16:03 LoRez children... that's enough.
16:04 GuShH The way I see it, you are trolling the moment you open up your java environment.
16:04 LoRez GuShH: that sounds like a personal problem of yours
16:04 i-make-robots agreed.
16:04 LoRez i-make-robots: I don't need your assistance.
16:04 Tom_itx no i
16:05 chris_99 what do you program in out of interest GuShH?
16:05 Tom_itx i-make-robots what is it you're selling?
16:06 Tom_itx i missed that
16:06 lostcauz I hate java(prefer asm), don't use arduino(prefer Propeller), but I like HaD. :)
16:06 Tom_itx rue likes it
16:06 Tom_itx he's been there a few times
16:06 i-make-robots Tom_itx - i sell the drawbot, i sell the skycam (made from two drawbots), I sell a line-following robot kit, and I'm working on others now.
16:07 Tom_itx just wondered
16:07 Tom_itx all i ever sold was some electronics
16:07 i-make-robots np. I mostly come in here to share something new I made to inspire others.
16:08 katsmeow-afk now you know it just pisses people off :-(
16:08 Tom_itx maybe one or two
16:09 Tom_itx wb btw
16:09 katsmeow-afk tanks
16:09 i-make-robots katsmeow-afk - yeah, was...unexpected. why would robots piss of people in #robots?
16:10 katsmeow-afk <shrug> i don't understand humans
16:10 i-make-robots o/
16:10 i-make-robots filthy bags of mostly water...
16:10 Tom_itx i haven't seen anything from most ppl in here anyway
16:11 Tom_itx most just sit there on their thumb
16:12 GuShH chris_99: actually, anything that gets the job done, aside from Java of course.
16:12 katsmeow-afk if i have energy, i tend to work past the point of it being a healthy thing to do
16:12 i-make-robots i assume they're deep into something very useful that will be revealed in the fullness of time. maybe designing a cheap 10 bit rotary encoder that works with arduino, or a complete stepper-driven linear actuator with end stop.
16:12 i-make-robots those would be awesome.
16:12 Tom_itx rifraf wanted me to make him some of those
16:12 Tom_itx not steper driven necessarily
16:13 tsmeow-afk wonders if the bridge crane satisfies requirements of being a linear actuator of some
16:13 i-make-robots I'm thinking more like a piston with a clevis/u-joint on each end.
16:14 Tom_itx rue is using balloons for that
16:14 Tom_itx and nylon mesh
16:15 katsmeow-afk but did he ever make anyting after playing with them?
16:16 Tom_itx i'm not sure he can stick on one thing long enough
16:16 katsmeow-afk praps if he finished that robot Domme, he'd have something to keep his attention
16:18 chris_99 anyone use PICs here?
16:35 GuShH chris_99: someone ought to... why?
16:36 Tom_itx i used to and switched to avr
16:36 Tom_itx they aren't that hobby friendly
16:37 chris_99 i was just wondering if anyone could either advise me to use pic24 or pic32
16:37 chris_99 i've used them before though
16:37 chris_99 pic16/18
16:41 GuShH Tom_itx: mostly due to the tools?
16:42 Tom_itx and banked memory
16:42 Tom_itx but i had ccs c so it took care of that
16:43 chris_99 i'm planning on playing around with usb as i havent done that before :)
19:53 GuShH furrywolf: what's the deal with double headed sparkplugs? and the ones with the split head?
19:53 GuShH it all looks and feels like marketing bs.
19:56 GuShH I've seen ones with 3 electrodes...
19:56 GuShH but the split ones that are in "V" had all the hype back when I used to do motocross...
19:57 GuShH (splitfire, etc)
20:48 furrywolf it's all marketing bs. :)
20:51 furrywolf i-make-robots: I'm glad to see people actually making things, but you will find very, very little love for java and arduino, anywhere.
20:54 furrywolf you should look at the emc2/linuxcnc links pages... there's a number of people who have used it to position objects in 3d space, as its kinematics package will handle all the math for you, out of the box.
20:54 furrywolf there's people who have used it with ropes to move cameras over large areas, etc.
20:55 furrywolf bbl, food
21:04 GuShH furrywolf: found this http://www.se-r.net/engine/specialty_spark_plugs.html
21:04 GuShH check out the paragraph about the splitfire
21:33 rrywolf randomly tickles spacekit
21:33 spacekitteh #^---^#
21:35 furrywolf I should measure the peak voltage my jeep's ignition can put out... with the coil I have in it, I've watched it arc an inch through air then into the side of a rubber heater hose. :)
21:35 furrywolf actually, an inch and a half through air, since it was arcing out of one of the cups on the cap.
21:36 furrywolf that page sounds like bull... more pointy bits doesn't help, and I've seen tests that show it only arcs to one side of splitfire plugs.
21:38 furrywolf the coil is a half inch fatter than the usual ones, and I had to bend the bracket quite a bit to get it in.
21:40 GuShH furrywolf: it'll arc to the path of least resistance, obviously :p
21:41 furrywolf I accidentally yanked on one of the spark plug wires while it was running, pulling it off the cap... it was quite happily arcing out of the cap, through the air, and into the nearby heater hose.
21:41 GuShH heh
21:49 GuShH germans... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i37cBOedFvI
21:49 rrywolf ignores youtube l
21:51 katsmeow-afk Kingston KVR1333D3N9/8G 8GB Desktop Memory Module - DDR3, 1333MHZ, DIMM, 240 Pin
21:51 katsmeow-afk Price: $39.99
21:51 katsmeow-afk Shipping: In Stock
21:52 katsmeow-afk that's less than half the price i once paid for 64k bytes of 200ns dram
21:52 GuShH it's a german guy plugging an electric mower to a genset, he then sits on the genset and activates the self-propeller on the mower and drives around the street.
21:53 GuShH you'd only find this amount of stupidity on youtube.
21:55 katsmeow-afk you wouldn't find something that SMART irl here
21:57 katsmeow-afk why is it in IE and FF, all the youtube videos rn 2 sec, then restart?
21:57 furrywolf because flash is a piece of shit. this is the standard answer to all youtube problems.
22:03 GuShH furrywolf: what is this nonsense I hear about "accidental start" on engines and hence why you "must" remove the sparkplug?
22:03 GuShH the "accident" may involve someone else cranking it...
22:07 furrywolf easy to do removing the blade on a lawnmower, etc.
22:07 furrywolf you go to remove/tighten the bolt, the engine spins over top dead center, fires, blade suddenly moves very fast...
22:09 furrywolf any work which has the potential to spin the crank, such as turning the bolt tapped into the end of it, can make the engine start, or at least fire once.
22:09 furrywolf and it'
22:10 furrywolf and it's very easy to spin the crank from that bolt... you usually have to jam something in the blade, then pull on the ratchet really hard. if the something slips, the crank spins at plenty of speed to start the engine.
22:10 furrywolf I've never had it happen to me, but I still make very sure all paws are free of moving bits when doing anything that could spin the engine.
22:12 GuShH on my mower you can't turn the blade if the clutch/brake is on
22:12 GuShH well you can if you force it, but I don't see it ever starting.
22:12 furrywolf mine has a clutch, no brake, which is pretty common.
22:13 furrywolf and the clutch, like most belt-driven motors, is just the belt tension.
22:13 GuShH So I hear there are laws over there on how fast the blade should be moving? and because of this the engines are tuned to work at a lower speed the bigger the blade?
22:14 furrywolf dunno, I've never heard that, nor seen an engine that runs at anything other than 3600rpm.
22:14 GuShH And likewise when it comes to emissions
22:14 furrywolf there may well be practical issues, like blade damage, cutting effectiveness, etc.
22:14 rue_shop3 "this machine is so new it hasn't been invented yet"
22:20 furrywolf most (all?) large-blade mowers are belt driven anyway, so they'd play with pulley ratios, not custom engines...
22:25 katsmeow-afk BALDOR CDP3326 DC SERVO MOTOR, .5 HP, 1750 RPM, 56C FRAME Item condition: Used Time left: 5d 15h (Aug 21, 201211:21:01 PDT) Current bid: US $3.99
22:26 rrywolf sits on katsmeow-afk's lap to look at the listing on her sc
22:27 tsmeow-afk
22:27 furrywolf mrrf :)
22:27 rue_shop2 ok more promising station is up
22:27 rue_shop2 by a bit
22:27 rue_shop2 we will see
22:28 katsmeow-afk "station" ?
22:31 rue_shop2 3Ghx P4
22:31 rue_shop2 Ghx?
22:31 rue_shop2 must be an acronym for a bogohertz
22:32 rue_shop2 tday I found the old power supply that died on me that I'm gonna use the fan for to fix my new power supply
22:35 rue_shop3 wow, it worked, I think
22:35 rue_shop3 I just built the WHOLE avr toolset
22:36 furrywolf did you build the avrdebugpurplemonkeydishwasher module?
22:36 rue_shop3 damnit
22:36 rue_shop3 avr-g++ isn't here
22:37 katsmeow-afk Siemens AC Motor, NEW, 20 HP, 1800 RPM, 208-230/460 V
22:37 katsmeow-afk Item condition: New
22:37 katsmeow-afk Quantity: 7 available
22:37 katsmeow-afk Price: US $225.00
22:38 furrywolf do you need a big 3ph motor?
22:38 katsmeow-afk Freight - See shipping detailsSee more services See shipping discounts
22:38 katsmeow-afk Start of LayerEnd of Layer | See all shipping details
22:38 katsmeow-afk Item location: Richmond, Virginia, United States
22:38 katsmeow-afk i was thinking of boat power, the propeller pods
22:38 katsmeow-afk but ac is a hassle, making it variable speed
22:39 furrywolf chinese VFDs are getting dirt cheap, but I don't know about that size range.
22:39 furrywolf you could always vary the governor on the genset
22:39 katsmeow-afk i have the 70hp motor-generator, and i can spen that with a 350 cuin v8 to make 50kw for pod motors
22:40 furrywolf SBCs: good for everything that needs a motor. :)
22:40 rue_shop3 damnit why are all instructions on the internet USELESS
22:40 rue_shop3 FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
22:41 e_shop3 checks to see if thats leaking out the primary or secondary pressure control v
22:42 katsmeow-afk i spent today clearing space in the driveway, going to see if i can shuffle the main hull over ~6ft and drag the 4ft dia pontoon hull in under the bridge crane
22:42 rrywolf would help, but is far away, and has too many other projects, and a foot thick stack of paperwork to take car
22:43 rue_shop3 damnit, that took me 2 days
22:43 katsmeow-afk i have maybe six golfcart / forklift dc motors , good nuff for making dock
22:43 katsmeow-afk not enough hp to push up a river tho
22:44 katsmeow-afk i would *REALLY* prefer to NOT have an engine in the main hull
22:44 furrywolf put one in each pontoon?
22:45 katsmeow-afk i have 2 generically dead and maybe useless (cannot rely on either one) V6 gas burners, and one 350 V8,, to make equal thrust on a tri, i need to put the V8 inthe center hull, or the crappy V6'
22:45 katsmeow-afk s int he pontoons
22:46 furrywolf use a pair of car engines with automatic gearboxes, and put a big servo on the shift linkage for forward/reverse, as well as throttle and start/stop, then control them all from the cabin...
22:46 katsmeow-afk problem with engines too: making them power props on retractable pods
22:46 katsmeow-afk autotannies will die in months in boat duty
22:47 furrywolf hrmm. shouldn't be too hard to put a big servo on a manual gearbox for reversing, then.
22:47 katsmeow-afk and the gas mileage will be horrible already
22:47 katsmeow-afk got 2 big manual grarboxes aying around? i doesn't
22:47 tsmeow-afk looks at her sore
22:47 furrywolf is your 350 a small block chevy? they're dirt cheap, at least around here.
22:48 katsmeow-afk they aren't dirt cheap any more, $3/cuin
22:48 furrywolf I mean, at least here, you can pick up a complete running 350-powered car for a couple hundred bucks if it looks like crap...
22:48 katsmeow-afk afaik, this 350 , which i have driven, has under 10k miles since rebuild, needs a new carb tho
22:49 katsmeow-afk it's just that there's boat rules for engines in enclosed spaces, and altho i agree with them, they are a hassle and use up living space
22:49 katsmeow-afk unless ic an greab anotehr 350 in the next year
22:50 katsmeow-afk and still, how to direct that much hp to a retractable prop/pod
22:51 furrywolf if you don't need actual sideways thrust, but do need retractable props, what about just an underwater u-joint and lift the prop up behind the pontoons? if you put the u-joint in a suitable grease-filled boot, it should survive a while...
22:52 katsmeow-afk oh heck, i'd slot the entire rear end and pull it all the way out of the water, but yeas, i want side thrust somehow, but not more than 20hp total on all thrusters, for docking in windy wavey conditions
22:52 furrywolf if you have a prop on each pontoon, with reversing controls, you should be able to spin in place...
22:53 furrywolf what about thrust vectoring on a fixed prop? have a big elbow that moves behind the prop and directs the thrust sideways?
22:53 furrywolf or vanes, etc.
22:54 katsmeow-afk the otehr thing that makes pod look good is the shaft -thrust angle to the hull, conventional shallow draft inboards the prop has a hug down vector
22:54 katsmeow-afk hug-huge
22:54 furrywolf little jetskis with thrust vectoring are suitably nimble, but I don't know how it scales.
22:55 katsmeow-afk jetski type waterjets tend to suck fuel, but yep they are great for top end speed
22:55 furrywolf I mean, they use thrust vectoring. a couple nested flared tubes that can aim the water to the sides.
22:57 katsmeow-afk un huh, fraid you meant that,, how do i get them underwater under the boat and hold them in the right place while the engine pushes water thruu them?
22:57 furrywolf lots of heavy metal. :)
22:58 katsmeow-afk too much work
22:59 furrywolf what about variable pitch props on your fixed-speed ac motors?
22:59 furrywolf if it's just for close maneuvering, efficiency isn't a huge issue.
23:01 katsmeow-afk nono, i need way more than 20hp for pushing up a river, i need less than 20hp for maneuvering at a dock, in a marina
23:03 furrywolf do the main props really have to retract? what about having the pontoons taper to a slender point at the back, with the propshaft right at that point, then a circular shield around the prop? it'd lose some efficiency sucking water around the pontoon, but would be completely protected.
23:04 katsmeow-afk in Fla , they get real strict and stuff about prop guards
23:05 katsmeow-afk besides, i don't wanna be driving a dolphin blender
23:06 furrywolf heh
23:07 katsmeow-afk water cooled exhaust manifolds are required too
23:07 katsmeow-afk real good reasons, but it also means a water pump and intercooler , cause you don't wanna pump salt water thru the manifolds
23:08 orlok what an awesome name for a boat
23:08 orlok "dolphin blender"
23:08 furrywolf the dolphin blender? lol
23:09 furrywolf do the main props have to retract, or would having them extend no lower than the pontoons and be well-guarded be sufficient?
23:09 katsmeow-afk if i get grounded, i don't want the boat weight to be on the props at low tide
23:10 rue_house theBear, is it correct to assume that the wattage of a speaker should be matched to the wattage of the amplifier channel its on?
23:10 katsmeow-afk you can hit 3ft deep water as far as 20 miles off Fla keys in some places
23:10 rue_house kat?
23:10 furrywolf so as long as they're over the bottom of the pontoons, and inside a sufficiently heavy guard, they don't need to retract?
23:10 katsmeow-afk rue?
23:10 katsmeow-afk no
23:11 rue_house the amp should be more/less?
23:11 katsmeow-afk speaker watts lie, and you should have amplifier power in reserve
23:11 furrywolf no. both should be twice the size you think they should be. :)
23:11 rue_house its for my truck
23:11 furrywolf you don't want the amp to clip, and you don't want the voice coils to melt... so oversize both.
23:11 rue_house I have a 2x25W amp
23:11 rue_house I dont know if thats ok
23:11 furrywolf 25w? let me guess, no boost supply in it?
23:11 katsmeow-afk in a quiet truck with house speakers, it's good nuff
23:12 rue_house its just a wee amp, I have a mp3 player to plug into it
23:12 katsmeow-afk with superstiff car speakers, they'll barely move at 25w
23:12 rue_house I dont know the wattage of the stereo thats in there now
23:12 katsmeow-afk don't expect good bass while driving downt he road
23:12 furrywolf house speakers are 8ohms, and work poorly on car amps. tried that...
23:13 katsmeow-afk furry, he didn't say the amp wasn't a house amp
23:13 furrywolf I assumed he wasn't putting an inverter in the truck to run the amp. :)
23:14 katsmeow-afk rue, a 6 or 8 inch mid-low with easy suspension, and a tweeter
23:14 katsmeow-afk if it's a 12v amp, use 4 ohm speakers
23:14 furrywolf there's no automotive 8" drivers that will do crap on 25w.
23:15 katsmeow-afk i didn't recommend auto speakers at all
23:15 furrywolf 6.5 is the biggest standard size before you get into subs, and they have stiff suspensions that like lotsawatts.
23:15 katsmeow-afk i was thinking 8" poly cole pa speakers, acyually
23:15 katsmeow-afk cole-cone
23:16 katsmeow-afk rue can swipe one fromt he hospital next thime the renovate
23:16 katsmeow-afk whyformyfingers reacha threshold and then slowly stop working rite?
23:17 furrywolf probably means it's bedtime.
23:19 katsmeow-afk http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-CUSTOM-AUDIO-555-6390-/555-6390
23:20 furrywolf why not use a normal car speaker?
23:20 furrywolf 8" will be hard to fit in anything, and those pa speakers aren't exactly known for their sound quality.
23:21 katsmeow-afk he has a truck, he can carry a 5kw genset in the back to power it, he has room for 8" speakers
23:21 furrywolf it also doesn't give its impedance, so I'd assume 8 ohms.
23:21 katsmeow-afk so use two, he'll up the wattage of the amp eventually anyhow
23:22 furrywolf and trucks are never easy to fit speakers in. you can sometimes cut the door sheetmetal enough to shoehorn in a 6.5"...
23:23 katsmeow-afk WESTLAKE AUDIO SM-1VF Home Speakers (Retail $260,000) $145,000.00 or best offer
23:25 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-New-20HP-VFD-6SE31230DH40-AC-380-500V-3-Phase-/380363727855?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588f71e3ef a bit pricier than the motors, but not excessively so...
23:26 furrywolf what about hydraulics? stick big hydraulic motors in the pods, on hoses with a few coils in them?
23:27 furrywolf although hydraulics are more expensive than electrics for some reason, so scratch that idea.
23:27 katsmeow-afk oh, oil leaks
23:28 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-OUTDOOR-SPEAKERS-PAIR-HORIZONTAL-OR-VERTICAL-OPTIONS-NS-AW194-/251131746771?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3a789e59d3
23:29 furrywolf what do you have against car speakers?
23:29 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLI-FU4-F1A-4-180-WATTS-2-WAY-CAR-SPEAKERS-PAIR-/180873850459?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item2a1cebee5b
23:29 katsmeow-afk there, feel better?
23:29 katsmeow-afk i told you why already, they have super stiff suspensions and eats gobs of power, which they don't turn into sound
23:29 furrywolf 4", 180W? lol
23:29 katsmeow-afk and their rating lie
23:30 furrywolf not all do. I think my infinity reference were pretty soft...
23:30 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BOSS-SE553-225-Watts-5-1-4-3-Way-4-Ohm-Speaker-NOT-REFUBLISHED-/221098650942?pt=Car_Amplifiers&hash=item337a81ad3e
23:33 furrywolf of course, I usually consider the solution to be "more watts" :)
23:33 katsmeow-afk the Marantz has 80v rails :-)
23:34 furrywolf my new car has a 10 speaker sound system... doesn't sound that good though. I think it's because the only working input source I have is the radio, and it's not that great of a tuner.
23:34 furrywolf need to wire a mini trs jack to the cd changer cables and try with my mp3 player.
23:35 furrywolf bah, looks like infinity has jumped on the imaginary ratings bandwagon too... they used to be somewhat accurate. now their 6x9s are 600W... 100W RMS.
23:37 katsmeow-afk heh
23:37 furrywolf I'm not sure what the rails are in the car amp I'm using for my home stereo... it's rated 160W/channel RMS into 4 ohms, but I'm too tired/lazy to do the math. :)
23:38 katsmeow-afk http://www.google.com/search?q=marantz+amplifier+240&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=qHYsUJuUOYHmygGiwICAAQ&ved=0CFUQsAQ&biw=971&bih=481
23:39 katsmeow-afk http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/0240.html
23:39 furrywolf I have a pioneer sx-1010 I need to fix.
23:39 katsmeow-afk http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251128866546
23:40 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-OWNER-Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-4080-DSM-4Ch-SQ-Amp-Made-in-USA-/200805638997?pt=Car_Amplifiers&hash=item2ec0f2e355 is my current amp. :)
23:40 katsmeow-afk my baby : http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=sansui+au7700
23:41 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kenwood-L-07M-Amplifiers-/271036511198?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3f1b08f3de I also have a pair of those that I need to fix.
23:43 katsmeow-afk i have a clone of this,, i am forgetting who made mine : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Q2031A-Dual-channel-1-3-octave-graphic-equalizer-stereo-/261082794720?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc9bf4ae0
23:45 furrywolf the car amp is rated for 160W/channel into 4 ohms at 13.8 volts, both channels driven, continous, with <.1% THD... yay honest ratings. I remember one I looked at was rated at 14.5 volts, one channel driven, at 10% THD. lol
23:45 katsmeow-afk eww
23:45 furrywolf they usually test a fair bit higher, too... they come with a sheet that gives the actual test results for that amp, usually well over the stated ratings. unfortunately mine didn't come with the sheet.
23:46 furrywolf despite being an old car amp, they sell for $200-$400, considered some of the best you can get.
23:47 furrywolf I have a pair of sansui SP-3500s and a pair of sansui SP-7500s off mine, in my living room, with it wired right to the big 12v bus on my solar system. :)
23:48 furrywolf http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio/505/medium/SANSUI_SP_3500.jpg and http://www.sansui.us/images/Speakers/SP_XSeries/sp7500X_4.jpg
23:48 furrywolf they're kabuki, but they're sure good at making lots of noise. :)
23:50 katsmeow-afk i wonder if there is such a thing as "old taste" , cause i prefer the older equipment i have
23:51 furrywolf heh
23:51 katsmeow-afk and i prefer rackmountable stuff, even if i don't mount half of it in racks
23:51 furrywolf nothing I have is particularly new, either... that car amp is the newest bit of audio gear I have.
23:51 furrywolf I have a marantz 24 to drive my kenwood l-07m monoblocks...
23:53 furrywolf the kenwood amps are very nice, and one of these days I should fix them... they can put out rather impressive amounts of power... but one of mine blows the logic/control fuse, the other the main line fuse.
23:53 katsmeow-afk my stuff is 1970's-80's, mostly ,, except the puters (all over 10 yrs old) or the stuff i have built myself like http://designerthinking.com/images/variac_rack/DSCF2236mc.jpg
23:53 furrywolf I have a pair of JBL 4311s in storage... they're too nice for this house. heh.
23:54 furrywolf sansuis with woofers way too large for the box are a good match for this house. :)
23:55 katsmeow-afk i have not powered up the stuff in the living room in years, almost any sounds make the dogs bark
23:56 katsmeow-afk using a lil jvc in the bedroom
23:56 furrywolf the kenwoods are 150W RMS into 8 ohms, 300W into 4 ohms, 0.002% THD at full rated power, DC to 200khz +/- 0.5db. can you say overkill? :)
23:56 katsmeow-afk great specs
23:56 furrywolf (yes, there's two zeros before the '2' and after the decimal point... while putting out 150W RMS)
23:57 tsmeow-afk
23:57 furrywolf great, but... excessive. no one would notice a bit more distortion or a bit of a dropoff over 20khz. going to 200khz is just silly. :)
23:57 katsmeow-afk the sansui specs beat the Marantz specs, but the Marantz is louder
23:58 furrywolf marantz under-rated their gear to give better noise specs. so did pioneer.
23:58 katsmeow-afk not really, if you have several coinciding 18khz signals (cymbals), it takes a fast amp to make them with fidelity
23:59 furrywolf plus the designs had a lot of extra built in... it's like the rockford fosgate car amp... one "birth sheet" says the amp was rated for 80W, but tested at 127W. pioneers also came with test sheets for each amp, and tested at 50% over their rating too... I don't recall marantzs coming with such sheets, but I suspect the design robustness was there anyway.