#robotics Logs

Aug 12 2012

00:58 rue_house in order to set it in the meantime you have to manually set it with ifconfig
00:59 furrywolf grrr, god damn fucking znc.
00:59 furrywolf any suggestions for a bouncer that does not suck, and can manage simple concepts like NOT LOSING YOUR BUFFER HALF THE GOD DAMN TIME?
01:01 furrywolf presumably, in at least one channel, someone has said at least one line since I mentioned my redneck car fixes. znc says otherwise.
01:04 rrywolf curls up on kat for bed
01:10 rrywolf makes sure to be extra heavy, to make sure kat doesn't disappear ag
02:12 rue_house bouncer?
02:35 ace4016 i think so he can always stay connected and it routes all comms to where ever the active console is
04:59 GuShH wtf http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/577171main_lego20110803-full.jpg
07:37 xxoxx anybody used L293D for motor control ?
07:38 xxoxx is it possible to do two-directional speed control using one PWM per motor?
08:19 useless xxoxx , most small servos use one pwm to control direction and speed
08:30 GuShH xxoxx: the L293D is just an HBRIDGE...
08:31 GuShH an old one too, get newer parts.
08:52 xxoxx GuShH, what new parts?
08:54 xxoxx maybe SN76604 ?
09:01 xxoxx are there any "servo in a chip" ?
09:49 GuShH xxoxx: the servo controller is inside the servo... there are tons of monolithic solutions for servos.
09:49 GuShH you should be less vague with your requirements and you'll probably find one that fits your needs.
09:50 GuShH usually you just control them with either your main mcu or a slave mcu
09:50 GuShH it's cheaper and you gain access to the low level side of it.
09:51 xxoxx sure. what I meant is any chip that accept servo-compatible PWM signal, and outputs bi-directional power to motor
09:51 ShH eyer
09:52 xxoxx L293 requires two wires per motor, you pulse one of them to get speed control
09:53 xxoxx so I wonder if there's any chip that does in essence what a servo board does, i.e. one wire PWM as a signal that controls speed and direction
09:53 GuShH there's no speed control with servos
09:54 xxoxx sure no PWM type speed control with servo
09:54 GuShH it's a constant speed, direction changes and there's simply some form of internal feedback, analog servos have a potentiometer linked to the gearbox or shaft one way or another.
09:54 xxoxx but if you rip out a servo board, there is a crude speed control
09:54 xxoxx if you fix the pot in the center, then the further away from center your PWM is, the faster the motor will spin
09:55 GuShH it's a motor driver with feedback and a signal conditioning module...
09:55 xxoxx very true
09:55 GuShH example ZN409
09:56 xxoxx this will do, thanks
09:56 ShH fr
09:56 xxoxx that's what I am looking for
09:56 xxoxx right now I've been ripping apart servos and fixing the pot to get bi-directional control on tank turrets
09:57 GuShH yey tanks
09:57 GuShH I need a coffee...
09:57 GuShH xxoxx: do they fire anything?
09:57 xxoxx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1st6AYi3F8
09:57 xxoxx very small ones
09:57 GuShH I want a robot tank that fires candy into my mouth
09:57 xxoxx it will fire laser
09:58 GuShH is that your video?
09:58 xxoxx scale models, smoke, sound, hull inertia
09:58 xxoxx yeah
09:58 xxoxx i am going for realism
09:58 GuShH do you airbrush them?
09:58 GuShH or do they come already painted
09:58 xxoxx yeah
09:58 xxoxx airbrush, then weathering
09:58 GuShH I recently ordered an inexpensive dual action airbrush to start with
09:58 xxoxx ok
09:58 GuShH xxoxx: well, you can weather with the airbrush too.
09:58 xxoxx yeah sure
09:58 xxoxx not all of it
09:58 xxoxx some weathering can be done by airbrush
09:58 GuShH I mean using it to blow media onto the tank
09:59 xxoxx yeah, e.g. dust
09:59 xxoxx it's got "gears" and "clutch"
09:59 GuShH love it
09:59 xxoxx drive around with bluetooth, and on-screen speedometer and engine RPM
09:59 xxoxx heh heh...
10:00 GuShH do you use oil for the smoke generator?
10:00 xxoxx the space is at premium, that's why I am looking for smaller parts
10:00 xxoxx nope, not oil
10:00 xxoxx I use e-cig. haha
10:00 GuShH lol
10:00 xxoxx a modified e-gic
10:00 GuShH so some sort of glycol crap
10:00 xxoxx plus a pump
10:00 xxoxx yeah smells sweet too
10:00 GuShH using oil would require a lot of current I guess...
10:00 GuShH I had a model train with an oil smoke generator
10:00 xxoxx a pump from a mobile blood pressure meter
10:00 GuShH xxoxx: but it should smell like diesel!!
10:00 xxoxx those oil smoke are messy
10:00 xxoxx i know
10:01 xxoxx it should, but... now it smells like mint
10:01 GuShH LOL
10:01 xxoxx i am making a new one, with better sound and a firing flash
10:01 xxoxx i am trying to put a camera flash into the barrel
10:01 GuShH it should have an e-cig on the barrel too
10:01 xxoxx yeah
10:01 xxoxx on bigger tanks maybe
10:01 xxoxx the soviet tanks are too small
10:02 xxoxx gun fires, hull will rock back and forth, etc...
10:02 GuShH can't hollow it out and have the e-cig on the inside?
10:02 xxoxx yeah it's got hollow gun tube made of metal
10:02 GuShH may clog... or have a big delay though
10:02 xxoxx yeah
10:02 GuShH the e-cig is just a piezo transducer and a high frequency driver
10:02 GuShH well, resonant driver.
10:03 GuShH I want to get some big piezos but they're too expensive
10:04 xxoxx i see
10:04 xxoxx so it's piezo...
10:04 xxoxx i was wondering how it got the smoke
10:04 xxoxx i thought it was somekind of resistor
10:04 GuShH ultrasound
10:04 GuShH well, ultrasonic drive.
10:04 xxoxx i see
10:04 GuShH I believe it is, I don't think it's a resistor.. notice I never bought one, nor do I smoke at all.
10:04 xxoxx i see
10:06 eBear LOVES to s
10:06 GuShH so technically speaking it's a capacitor, say 1-2nF for the medium sized piezos.
10:06 GuShH I forgot the term of what actually happens to the water :(
10:06 GuShH notice I'm missing my dose of caffeine...
10:07 ShH grabs and shakes theBear asking for mercy and / or co
10:07 theBear vapourized ?
10:07 GuShH nope
10:07 theBear i ask for nothing ! i just soldered the impossible !
10:07 GuShH they are ~4-6 micron particles
10:07 GuShH nebulisation!
10:07 theBear vapourized is i dunno, getting moisture particles into the air in ways other than evaporation, like smashing them with a piezo i guess
10:07 theBear no it isn't !
10:08 GuShH ya it is!
10:08 theBear i retract my statement
10:08 theBear i mean what i said
10:08 theBear by which i mean i don't mean what i said ;)
10:08 GuShH So you drive them at resonant frequency for maximum throughput, thing is... 40 bucks for one is TOO MUCH.
10:08 GuShH some are in the MHz region...
10:08 theBear heh, few more years i'll be paying 40 bucks for a real one
10:09 GuShH It sounds trivial but driving 2-4nF at 1.6MHz ... with quite a lot of current, is not that easy to do right.
10:09 theBear you ever seen a smd micro usb ? they make those things WAY too small, and put components so tiny i can't even guess what they are less than an irons distance away
10:09 GuShH I think you can cheat by using a square wave and "kinda" get it right, because of the harmonics but you won't get maximum output
10:09 GuShH yeah
10:10 ShH really wants an ultrasonic cleaner th
10:10 GuShH it's amazing how things come out new... and just by cavitation!
10:10 GuShH tiny little explosions that will BLOW YOUR MIND.
10:11 theBear mmm, i'd love to get one of those commercial ones big enough to put say, a monitor AND a pc in :)
10:11 GuShH it turns out they use them to clean injectors (from gas engines) go figure. one would've thought they had something more high-tech because they charge quite a lot for that service!
10:11 GuShH they have big ones, and they cost big time. big enough to put an entire engine block in it.
10:12 GuShH here it costs 60 usd per injector
10:12 GuShH and you have to bring them yourself.
10:12 GuShH and it's literally a guy throwing them inside a stainless steel container and leaving them for a few hours, or overnight.
10:12 xxoxx piezo
10:13 GuShH sure they have a test rig where they measure how much fuel is injected, etc...
10:13 xxoxx sounds nice
10:13 GuShH but it's too expensive.
10:13 GuShH (the rig consists of a fuel pump, fuel container, injector couplers, test tubes with a gauge on them and a timer circuit)
10:13 xxoxx ok
10:14 GuShH and they cost several 1000s...
10:14 ShH doesn't like the automotive indu
10:14 xxoxx i want to build tiny motors for my tanks too
10:14 xxoxx gas burning motors, with transmission, brakes and all
10:14 GuShH what's your obsession with tiny things, sir?
10:14 GuShH shit I like that as well.
10:14 xxoxx models
10:14 GuShH do you have a lathe?
10:14 GuShH and a mill?
10:14 xxoxx yeah
10:14 xxoxx i have a machine shop
10:14 ShH en
10:15 GuShH go for it
10:15 xxoxx yeah
10:15 xxoxx mixing electronics and machines are fun
10:15 GuShH hmm it's "children's day" today...
10:15 GuShH means I give myself a present, since I'm a kid deep down.
10:15 ShH stares at the
10:15 xxoxx yeah
10:16 xxoxx aren't we all
10:16 GuShH xxoxx: I don't think you can run tiny engines at low idle though
10:16 GuShH doesn't seem to scale very well
10:16 GuShH because they have less mass for instance
10:16 xxoxx fly wheel
10:16 GuShH so it would be a loud sucker running at several 1000 RPMs
10:17 GuShH xxoxx: still, too small scale.
10:17 xxoxx I saw a German-built 0.005 displacement engine
10:17 GuShH linky
10:17 xxoxx smallest four-stroke I ever seen
10:17 GuShH been looking at old hit and miss engines, but they are too expensive.
10:17 GuShH always wanted one
10:18 GuShH in theory they should be cheap specially if they need restoration, but since they're old they want $$$
10:18 GuShH if I had the tools I'd try to build one from scratch instead
10:19 xxoxx foud it.. http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f14/tiny-i-c-engine-7397/
10:19 GuShH "Dave Jones has Tweets for you" wtf. damn you twitter
10:19 xxoxx yeah hit and miss are nice
10:19 xxoxx they can be made very small
10:19 xxoxx and replicate the working of a V-8 or V-12, with external features to-scale even
10:21 theBear hehe, i told you no good can come from any form of social networking
10:22 GuShH love them
10:22 GuShH the engines, not the social bullcrap sites
10:22 eBear tries to imagine the sound of a tiny v8 or
10:22 xxoxx lol...
10:22 GuShH I'm trying to imagine my cat driving a tiny car with a tiny v12
10:23 xxoxx yeah
10:23 theBear hehe, i'm succeeding at that one
10:23 GuShH she would just get super fat from not walking to anywhere, instead she would drive.
10:23 theBear hehe lazy cat :)
10:23 GuShH xxoxx: no videos though?
10:24 GuShH oh
10:24 GuShH xxoxx: what's the deal with people machining amazing scale models of engines just to run them off compressed air?
10:24 GuShH it pisses me off.
10:25 GuShH http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/putputman/Tiny%20Engine/?action=view&current=TinyIC-1.mp4
10:25 xxoxx video: http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/putputman/Tiny%20Engine/?action=view&current=TinyIC-1.mp4
10:25 xxoxx yeah there you go
10:25 theBear lol, what kinda crazy person runs TINY piston engines on their lathe ? crazy people !
10:26 GuShH I guess you could build an even smaller one
10:26 GuShH what's the power output on that one?
10:27 xxoxx don't know about further miniaturizing that
10:27 theBear hehe
10:27 xxoxx maybe I will get a bigger tank
10:27 xxoxx 1/16 scale will do
10:27 GuShH you could if you had the tools and patience heh
10:27 xxoxx I think output is on par with a small brushless motor
10:27 GuShH it's easier when you have the timing done with a reed or hall effect sensor
10:28 xxoxx yeah
10:28 GuShH xxoxx: but that looks to be 2 stroke
10:28 xxoxx it's 4, look at the push rods
10:28 GuShH bah I closed the tab
10:29 xxoxx sounds like a 4 too. engine this size would squeel if it were 2-stroke, e.g. COX Bee
10:29 GuShH a cox bee runs at 10krpm
10:29 xxoxx yeah
10:29 GuShH hence the noise it makes.
10:29 xxoxx yeah
10:29 GuShH I have a couple, need new glow plugs
10:29 GuShH rather, the adapter plugs some people are turning and selling.
10:30 GuShH because the original ones were shit.
10:30 xxoxx logging off... bye
10:30 GuShH now I hear it! usually I got my sound off.
10:30 GuShH bye
10:37 GuShH heh I see the tiny overhead valves now
11:13 xxoxx hehe. it reminds me of the nozzle on an airbrush
13:15 EverNoob hello
13:15 tobbor Hello EverNoob
13:15 EverNoob how are ya? :)
13:16 rue_bed good, whats the project?
13:16 EverNoob lol
13:16 EverNoob well,
13:16 EverNoob im studying mechatronics
13:16 EverNoob im from egypt
13:16 rue_bed ok
13:17 EverNoob i actually dropped 4 semesters
13:17 EverNoob so im kinda late
13:17 rue_bed we get a few from egypt every so often
13:17 rue_bed what brings you here?
13:17 EverNoob i want to be pointed to the right direction yknow
13:18 EverNoob i want to build robots
13:18 EverNoob obvious i know
13:18 EverNoob but i dont know where to start
13:18 EverNoob i started reading robot's bonanza
13:18 rue_bed can you program in C?
13:18 EverNoob no
13:19 rue_bed thats a good thing to learn
13:19 rue_bed do you know any electronics?
13:19 EverNoob ok tell me where
13:19 EverNoob yes i do
13:19 EverNoob and i know some mechanics
13:20 EverNoob i just want to know where to start and what do i need to start
13:20 EverNoob like the tools i need to buy
13:20 EverNoob what books to read
13:20 rue_bed you need to know 3 disciplins
13:21 rue_bed electronics, mechanics, and programming
13:21 EverNoob as far as the 1st two go, i know basics
13:21 rue_bed tell me about the electronics you do
13:21 EverNoob ok
13:22 EverNoob i just finished a course called Electronic Circuits/Micro Electronics
13:22 EverNoob you study bjts
13:22 EverNoob and mosfets
13:22 EverNoob opamps
13:22 rue_bed is there really somewhere in egypt thats not in chaos right now?
13:22 EverNoob its not as you think
13:22 rue_bed the news dosn't tell much here
13:23 rue_bed but I'm sure not everywhere in egypt is the same
13:23 rue_bed ok, do you know analog electronics, but they dont do digital?
17:00 rue_house the dedicated circuit the freezer and router are on tripped
17:00 rue_house !??!?!
17:03 Tom_itx bad breaker?
20:25 rue_shop3 catagorize live into 3 kinds of activities: getting to zero, staying at zero, and getting ahead of zero
20:25 rue_shop3 but it requires a definition of zero
20:25 e_shop3 looks at
20:26 rue_shop3 do you have the perspective to define this?
20:28 orlok one involves putting the foot on the brake, the other involves holding it there, and the third requires removing the foor and putting it on the accellerator
20:35 DagoRed nice orlok
20:36 orlok I'm looking at doing some design for objects to be 3d printed.. can anybody reccomend software?
20:37 DagoRed Anything you want orlok
20:37 DagoRed Mostly it's how it's saved.
20:37 DagoRed You can use sketchup from google or something like blender.
20:38 orlok i want to make a 3d printed holden for a webcam PCB
20:39 DagoRed hmm...
20:39 DagoRed sketchup for that.
20:45 useless .
20:46 DagoRed Hey Kat
20:46 useless hi
20:46 tobbor Hello useless
21:02 rue_house i had half an hour to get to the store befre it closed, and the truck wont start
21:03 useless connect 600vdc (from 480vac) to the starter, it will move
21:04 rue_house starter is working great, I hear the fuel pump going, I suspect either fuel or spark
21:05 useless but at 480v, leave it in gear, it will move
21:05 rue_house I wonder how much propane you have to dump down a carb to kick a 2.5L engine
21:06 rue_house life is full of setbacks
21:06 rue_house the 'getting to zero' is the process of repairing setbacks
21:06 useless if you need propane, then it's not getting gas and won't run
21:11 rue_house exactly, quick easy test
21:11 rue_house dont know how to check an engine like that for spark
21:11 rue_house <rue_house> wholy f***
21:11 rue_house <rue_house> wood box = good
21:11 rue_house <rue_house> fense?
21:11 rue_house <rue_house> really?
21:11 rue_house <rue_house> "recieved in damaged condition" so they shoul pay for it
21:12 rue_house dont forget a bit of padding in the box
21:12 useless i won't
21:12 rue_house it looks like the hulk tried to use it as an accordian
21:12 rue_house and succeeded
21:13 useless most i get are like that
21:13 useless we really need a way to make money off these assholes
21:14 useless http://designerthinking.com/images/Tektronix/DSCF2222.jpg
21:16 rue_house <rue_house> kat, you send these images back to the sellers, right?
21:16 useless after i removed the damaged parts, i pushed the box along the crumple lines, it was down almost 5 inches, only the equipment inside stopepd the box from being completely crushed
21:16 useless yeas
21:16 rue_house you really dont give me enough opportunity to reply ya know
21:17 useless their response has usually been: 1) we didn't ship it that way, it's your fault or 2) someone in shippng is mad at you, it's not our fault
21:17 useless what do you mean enough opportunity to reply?
21:21 useless oh, when i left garf because n one said anything?
21:23 useless i didn't know if i was welcome, you know, because i cut down dead trees
21:24 useless some of the dead tree came down in a storm the otehr nite, taking 30ft out of a live tree, took me 2 hrs to clean up that mess
21:24 useless i wanted to save that live tree
22:15 rue_house timeing pickup is completely open circuit
22:15 useless maybe it's capacitive coupled
22:15 rue_house thats a kat, when it was at the repair shop last time I ASKED THEM TO CHANGE THAT FOR ME they said itwas fine and replaced the distributor cap and rotor
22:15 rue_house I have the new one at 800R
22:16 useless "thats a kat"?
22:29 rue_shop3 ooo the oiler helix is pluged too
22:29 DagoRed :(
22:29 DagoRed not cool
22:29 rue_shop3 katits typical of one of your stories about taking a truck to a shop becuase a wheel is about to fall off, and they replace the winshield and insist the wheel is ok, it falls off 1 mile later
22:29 DagoRed kat ^
22:32 rue_shop3 except in kats version, somehow the non-refundable winshield woiuld get broken in the process of losing the wheel
22:33 DagoRed true
22:33 DagoRed unfortunately.
22:35 e_shop3 shakes out the bits of the old coil.
22:35 rue_shop3 @#$%
22:35 useless ah
22:38 DagoRed did you finish your burner for this winter Rue?
22:38 DagoRed Err... your boiler.
22:42 any05033955 ?
22:43 dumbass [ChanServ PING reply]: 15 secs
22:44 rue_shop3 no boiler work yet
22:44 rue_shop3 it scares me to think my whole engine has this much carbon buildup in it
22:46 dumbass [ChanServ PING reply]: 21 secs
22:46 DagoRed ....
22:47 DagoRed that's terrible pint times
22:47 dumbass rue, only engines with non-working PCV system get carbon buildup anymore
22:47 dumbass or you haven't used detergent oils in it
22:48 rue_shop3 I think the pcv is borked too
22:49 dumbass better fix it, oil galleries and lifters choked with carbon can bork the entire engine
22:49 dumbass i seen oil pumps driveshafts twist off cause of carbon breaking loose into the pump
22:52 dumbass The result � not to overlook the amazing amount of work that went into the design of this machine � was a computer built out of 210,000 individual logic chips at a total cost of $2.7 Million dollars, or about $10 Million in 2012 dollars. The power consumption of this computer would be crazy � about 90 kilowatts
22:54 DagoRed damn
22:55 dumbass August 7, 2012 at 3:25 pm
22:55 dumbass In 1992 I was doing weather calculations as an intern for the Air Force. Our 36 hour forecast for 100 square miles --- took 12 hours to run on a Cray Y-MP at $1500/hour. We later started to run on a sparc Ultra 10 which took 48 hours (to get the 36 hour forecast)
22:56 dumbass "we'll have the forecast for the last 36 hours in 12 more hours!"
23:34 rue_shop3 the hardest part was getting the distributor cap back on
23:34 rue_shop3 I never would have imagined
23:34 rue_shop3 think that took me about an hour
23:34 rue_shop3 (runs like a charm)
23:35 dumbass need to pick a difefrent store
23:39 rue_shop3 it runs BETER than it ever did
23:39 rue_shop3 when I gun it, and its comming down, it dosn't backfire anymore
23:39 rue_shop3 and it guns way harder
23:40 dumbass so............ not going to electrify it?
23:52 rue_shop3 not today
23:52 rue_shop3 that ruined my evening
23:52 rue_shop3 I come out of it better
23:52 dumbass having a great running truck will ruin anyone's evening
23:52 rue_shop3 I wonder why the default timing stopped working
23:53 rue_shop3 I presume the default is for the ecu to just send out sparks like crazy and let the distributor sort it out
23:53 dumbass prolly
23:54 rue_shop3 I wonder if something in the module burned out, or if the computer just had enough
23:54 rue_shop3 it ran perfectly to me parking it
23:54 dumbass the ecu is supposed to send out the sparks witht he right timeing, it just often has no idea for what spark plug tho
23:54 rue_shop3 if they were gonna cut-off the default operation I'd think they would wait for you to park
23:54 rue_shop3 well
23:55 rue_shop3 I'm being favenged by reflux
23:55 rue_shop3 ravenged even
23:55 dumbass ravaged ?
23:55 rue_shop3 swimming and engine repair are two things to not do right after a meal
23:55 dumbass we caught reflux from Tom