#robotics Logs

Aug 10 2012

01:28 rue_bed so I know what I need to make up circuit wise next
01:28 rue_bed for the 3d printer
01:28 rue_bed then I need to work out step controllers
08:23 GuShH rue_bed: I thought you were going to buy it all made or new, I think you even said so!
08:52 rue_house most of it, lots of bits I have
09:19 GuShH :p
09:26 rue_house lots of bits are just done in expensive ways, when the inexpensive ways are actaully easier
09:34 GuShH rue_house: I'd say most of it is expensive.
09:35 GuShH which is why I haven't got one yet.
09:35 GuShH I just can't justify it
10:56 GuShH 4.946uF for the new 5uF cap, we'll see how long it lasts...
11:02 furrywolf argh, I hate working with the county... to get the airport permit, it needs to be signed by about ten people. according to the manager I spoke to, each one will take 3-4 days to sign it. she estimated it will take 60 days to do.
11:13 theBear this is why i like being 'employed' these days... makes all these worries disappear
11:20 furrywolf and, of course, making ten copies of it, giving one to each person, and having them sign in parallel instead of sequentially is out of the question...
11:21 theBear of course
11:34 ShH slaps the
11:35 theBear fucing what ?
11:38 GuShH theBear: o.o
11:38 GuShH that's how we say hello.
11:38 furrywolf you mean it's how you be stupid and annoying?
11:38 GuShH one slap leads to another and next thing you know we are setting some place on fire and having a beer
11:38 GuShH hopefully that place contains one dave jones.
11:39 GuShH furrywolf: we can't pet each other or cuddle, sorry.
11:40 GuShH I'm sorry it's going to take you so long to get your business up and running, but it's not my fault so don't take it on me!
11:40 furrywolf it is your fault that you randomly slapped someone.
11:40 furrywolf if you want to be an idiot, go back to ##electronics.
11:41 GuShH You do know it's just text, and you do know no physical contact was made?
11:41 theBear no, that's how flyback says hello
11:42 GuShH For one, If I wanted to hurt someone I wouldn't use a slap.
11:42 GuShH But, there are friendly slaps too.
11:42 theBear not outta context, not when i've been listening that fucking monkey all night
11:42 GuShH theBear: I thought flyback's way of saying hello involved an ice-pick and his rear.
11:43 GuShH Oh I haven't.
11:43 theBear sigh, just be, more normal
11:43 ShH is not in ##electro
11:43 GuShH Coincidentally some people keep thinking I only talk to you because you are an op in that channel... now those fall into the "idiot" category.
11:44 theBear pfft, i'd hope so
11:44 GuShH theBear: why is he allowed back anyway
11:44 theBear we never sent him away, freenode did
11:44 theBear i mean, we sent him away 100's of times, but this time it was freenode
11:45 GuShH Meh.
11:45 GuShH You have to make him less religious if you want to succeed.
11:46 theBear aww c'mon, i don't got much mojo this week, don't remind me of religion
11:46 theBear and my lighter is damned near dead... sigh
11:47 GuShH Surely you can think of alternative ignition sources
11:47 theBear oh i can, it's just the whole principle of the thing
11:47 GuShH Why is everyone so upset today?
11:47 GuShH Forgot we all come from star dust and we have no real purpose in life?
11:48 theBear i dunno about everyone else, but my most recent reason is cos a crazy girl knocked on the door and i foolishly opened it wihtout checking the camera
11:48 GuShH _the_ crazy girl?
11:48 theBear ok, A crazy girl
11:48 theBear she really looks like a junky now too, fucked front teeth and all.. poor kids
11:49 GuShH :/
11:49 GuShH that's due to violence or the actual drugs?
11:49 theBear she really needs 6 months in a padded room again, her bro (one of them, the fucked one) just had a couple, and well, i say it's not enough
11:49 theBear i'd say the drugs
11:49 GuShH yikes
11:50 GuShH she ideally needs another place, after the padded room.
11:50 theBear doesn't take much... and she got a long history
11:50 GuShH ie. away from these people
11:50 theBear she's got her folks and the kids live with her umm, their father
11:50 theBear of course her messed up bro is always at her folks
11:50 GuShH sigh
11:51 furrywolf I was only mildly annoyed until you opened your mouth.
11:51 GuShH You clearly take it on me since you know I can take it.
11:51 theBear heh, and a stalemate is reached
11:51 GuShH And that's fine.
11:51 furrywolf rather than contributing anything, you spouted stupid shit. if you want to be like flyback, go hang out with him, not us.
11:51 theBear be nice
11:51 theBear and what furry said
11:51 GuShH I actually didn't.
11:51 theBear sigh, be nice
11:52 theBear if everyone goes a LITTLE bit out of their way to be nice, everyone is happy
11:52 furrywolf I stayed here to get away from the stupid shit that took over ##electronics.
11:52 GuShH And if you want to play it like that, neither are you - contributing -
11:52 furrywolf now kat's gone, and there's stupid shit here too.
11:52 GuShH furrywolf: I don't know what happens there, I haven't been in that channel for over a month, I think.
11:52 GuShH So you can't blame it on me either.
11:52 eBear shakes his
11:52 theBear i'm gonna go make my instant noodles
11:53 GuShH with hot sauce?
11:53 theBear don't be stupid
11:53 GuShH So hot noodles is something stupid?
11:53 GuShH You just insulted entire nations.
11:54 theBear no, hot sauce is stupid
11:54 theBear hot and spicy noddles are fine
11:54 GuShH It doesn't have to be storebought, you can make your own and it can be as spicy as you want.
11:55 GuShH some people like just a hint of spice, others just go nuts.
11:55 theBear chilli is good, even dried chilli is acceptable, hot sauce is stupid
11:55 ShH bl
11:56 theBear 'real' hot sauce has it's uses, but not on noodles
11:56 theBear and by real hot sauce i mean something made with chilli and little else
11:56 GuShH oil, vinegar
11:56 GuShH But, just for that I'm going to make the best bearnaise you've ever seen, then I'm going to pour it down the drain!
11:56 theBear yeah, that starts to sound supsiciously like 'ketchup'
11:57 GuShH More like tobasco
11:57 GuShH not sure it contains oil
11:57 theBear well fuck you, if i had more than 1 egg, i'd make the best bearnaise you'd ever seen, and eat it
11:57 GuShH probably does, a bit.
11:57 ShH still doesn't know why everyone is so upset --- also didn't know flyback had such power on ever
11:57 GuShH of course I wouldn't throw away the bearnaise, are you nuts
11:58 theBear he doesn't, i was grumpy when i got up, but hearing him talk shit then hearing someone intelligent do a good impersonation is just disappointing
12:02 furrywolf lol
12:03 GuShH_ :(
12:05 GuShH theBear: I wouldn't go as far as to say intelligent... *grin*, but speaking of which did you get the CV out there?, what about starting your own deal, too complicated or costly?
12:05 GuShH Now I'm grumpy too, net keeps dropping
12:06 theBear my own deal ? you mean contracting ? i'm getting closer to reconsidering it, but historically it makes me at least as sad as i am now.... cv been around a bit, noticed something when i asked the lady at the cripple-employment-agency to glance at it for me this week.... i really need a resume version, something that a 30second uninterested glance will be MUCH more interested in... if they want 'proof' of my skills etc they can ask for a real cv...
12:08 GuShH the proof is in the pudding!
12:09 GuShH It makes you sad because of the lower income or because you have to deal with a lot more flyback type persons?
12:09 GuShH Or end up running the show
12:10 theBear it makes me sad cos i end up spending all my time finding/worrying about work instead of doing what i'm REALLY good at
12:10 GuShH Not much worse than not being recognized...
12:11 theBear was thinking earlier (as yet another 'friends' mobile came up for repair) that i shoudl start advertising mobile repairs, but to be practical about it i'd be able to at least afford spare parts off ebay until a customer pays
12:11 GuShH So... found this new place, got the motor cap for 2 usd. I officially got heating now!
12:12 GuShH theBear: aren't most repairs on modern phones a matter of finding and replacing an entire board?, either that or connectors.
12:12 GuShH for a short period of time I used to provide said connectors to the local stores
12:12 theBear GuShH, more or less, occasionally you get a loyal customer by resoldering a button or usb socket in 5 mins instead of waiting a week and charging for a whole new 'main board'
12:12 GuShH mostly usb and custom china crap, which is why I whined about it so much for a while.
12:13 GuShH and then I tried to repair a couple phones I had here, which was silly because I could never source some of the custom connectors they used
12:13 GuShH I think they now can't use anything other than real usb connectors, at least the big companies can't
12:13 GuShH but chinese phones still exist.
12:13 theBear and now i burned my fucking toast ! just like i say, worse and worse
12:13 GuShH :(
12:13 theBear i not sure i even seen a broken button or jack in a phone, just cracked off the solder joints/board/mounting
12:14 theBear got a legend here, just needs a resolder on the usb
12:14 GuShH hey I showed you one!
12:14 GuShH I want to unlock an old nokia I have, but I haven't managed to do it so far
12:14 GuShH I'm much happier with an old, unbreakable phone, than a new flimsy piece of crap.
12:15 GuShH The feeling of not having to worry about it makes me all warm on the inside.
12:16 theBear iphone unlock/jailing is geting popular again too, and i can do that now
12:16 GuShH theBear: money aside, would it be profitable to buy old broken audio gear, refurbish and resell it?
12:16 theBear i'm happy with htc, last one lasted over 8 years thru VERY nasty circumstances
12:16 theBear lol NUP
12:16 GuShH never owned an HTC, but I've heard good things about them
12:16 theBear even shops that buy used stuff dirt cheap and sell it are failing these days
12:16 GuShH theBear: but you wouldn't have to pay rent or employees
12:16 GuShH that's why I asked
12:16 theBear i owned their first and 2nd models ever, seen a bunch inbetween, had my current one for a year and ahalf and love them all
12:17 GuShH and rental store?
12:17 theBear not to mention having repaired a lot of them, usually without service manuals
12:17 GuShH the hardest part is getting known for something
12:17 theBear rental maybe, depends how old.... amps without protection are dangerous in stupid hands if you also own the speakers
12:17 GuShH then the work just pretty much comes itself
12:17 GuShH theBear: what about selling said protection?
12:18 theBear said protection is usually pretty crappy, but you can build a little 'dc/disaster protector' relay/output board for nothing...
12:18 GuShH yes, and you can sell it for something...
12:18 theBear i spose if you have hire customers you can do well with 2ndhand gear on the low end of the market
12:18 GuShH YOU could make it, others usually can't. specially users, audio people may know about star grounding and a few other things, but that's about it.
12:18 GuShH and by that I mostly mean artists or whoever ends up using it
12:19 theBear mmm, china/behringer have kinda killled the traditional audio market, and all 'new' audio gear is built like phones or computers... hard if not impossible to service, and expensive to replace dead boads
12:19 GuShH But that's also mainly due to the amount of bullshit features they keep adding to make idiots happy
12:20 theBear depending on the local market super-bottom-end stuff can make money, like selling repaired/salvaged old gear to hippies, but then you always dealing with customers that don't wanna spend money
12:20 GuShH and because it's lower cost to manufacture, of course.
12:20 GuShH heh
12:20 theBear not completely, a 'basic' poweramp these days is half smd, got multiple complicated 'protection' circuits that basically mean without a schem yer screwed trying to fix anythign beyond the most obvious/guessable faults etc etc
12:21 theBear as i learned the last few years, lighting repairs are still a big thing if yer good at them....
12:21 theBear more interesting too, steppers and drivers and digital bits and feedback
12:22 GuShH If you could do that at your place...
12:22 GuShH theBear: you could ask for a certain amount up-front, which isn't uncommon in some cases.
12:23 theBear i can do any of it here, but this state is small, between my old work (not real popular since i left), my pre-pre-decessor there (own business) and a big multi-tech place a suburb away, there isn't uch work left
12:23 theBear and it IS uncommon for 'entertainment industry' repairs, at least in this country
12:23 GuShH :(
12:24 theBear i'm an AMAZING repair tech... you seen my timelapse vids ? i hope so, cos i lost track of them the last week, might have to get a server turned on the other side of the country and re-grab them
12:24 GuShH lol
12:25 theBear got my email back up yesterday or so... *rememberit.com.au is served in my loungeroom again, mail and web and ns
12:25 GuShH I still think you should start a cheesy video blog.
12:25 theBear said turned off machine used to be my backup ns, but well, it's off now, dual p3 servers with big raid arrays aren't affordable anymore
12:25 GuShH Doesn't have to be 1080p with studio lights.
12:25 theBear i'm not against the idea of a video blog, i just never have enough 'good' time to get it sorted
12:26 GuShH bah you reminded me of my missing box
12:26 theBear and it wouldn't, at best pal res, probly 640x480
12:26 ShH wipes
12:26 theBear aww, now you reminded me of MY missing box
12:26 theBear sob
12:26 GuShH I needed it for surveilance!!!
12:26 GuShH now I might have to save up to get a shitty pc just for that.
12:27 furrywolf I find 99% of faults are output transistors. :)
12:27 GuShH it was a 1GHz pentium but I used it a lot
12:28 theBear i just transferred (finished) my security cams/4*bt878 to the p3-1000 a few days ago
12:28 theBear working great, AND serving mail and ns and web and other crap :)
12:28 GuShH most of the cost on my setup is going to be the wiring.
12:28 theBear 1/2gb ram, 305mb free (not counting cache/buffers)
12:29 theBear you should learn to roll your own vid transformers like i semi-have.... cat5 is cheap
12:29 GuShH well, _was_ going to be, now I need a box too.
12:29 GuShH theBear: don't like the idea for most thins
12:29 GuShH things
12:29 theBear which reminds me, if i wanna experiment with transformers for a transmission line, how longer line do i need for bench-testing ? something like 2 wavelengths maybe ?
12:29 GuShH the baluns are relatively cheap though and they come in weather proof boxes
12:29 GuShH but I have a 60 meter run
12:29 theBear real pal baluns aren't cheap next to a core and a few winds of wire
12:30 GuShH they are if they come from china and you know the store owner
12:30 ShH g
12:30 theBear hmm, i only done about 30meters, but it's a NOISY run, at the moment i'm only running 'series' common mode style baluns, and it's pretty darned good
12:30 theBear you come from china ?
12:30 GuShH o.o
12:30 theBear don't you mean -.- ? <grin>
12:30 GuShH no, the baluns and cameras and lenses and everything else does
12:30 GuShH prbably the wiring too.
12:31 GuShH the cheapie cameras I have in mind can't really handle the weather though, you need an enclosure
12:31 GuShH which costs as much as the camera!
12:31 GuShH theBear: for a single camera, coax with built in power cable isn't that bad.
12:32 theBear 'got going' some crappy noname chinese dvr/cam thingy for a friend of a friend a few weeks ago, it was pretty decent aside from freezing the moment you hit the web/http port with ANYTHING... but if you didn't need it netowrked, could save to usb hd/memstick with good configurability, motion sensing if wanted, options to only record on motion etc, single/multi cam view on composite or vga output, etc etc etc
12:32 GuShH I may end up using that for the entrance camera, unless I end up wanting more than one camera over there, in which case your cat5 would be a good idea, but it'll pick up a lot of crap and the signal will get very attenuated.
12:32 theBear coax with built in power ? you mean physically, not power over coax/video right ?
12:32 theBear use the baluns, it's amazingly good
12:32 GuShH the power cable is moulded onto the plastic shroud of the coax
12:32 GuShH not sure what it's called.
12:33 theBear it's called a crazy double-cable-thingy
12:33 GuShH everyone just calls it cctv cable
12:33 GuShH lol
12:33 GuShH but it was almost as cheap as regular 75 ohm coax
12:33 GuShH although the power wires are probably very thin
12:33 GuShH and at 60 meters with possibly a 300mA load (at night with IR array turned ON)
12:34 GuShH ...the drop may be quite high!
12:35 GuShH theBear: any ideas on how to make my own stencil for painting?
12:35 theBear coax aint cheap here, maybe i'm outta the loop (wouldn't be surprised) but i already had cat5
12:35 GuShH hey you use what you have
12:35 theBear what kinda painting ? what kinda scale ? i kinda like the idea of (commercial) screenprinting 'emulsion' these days
12:35 GuShH yesterday I fixed the floater thingy on a water tank by re-using an old rubber seal from the faucet I fixed the other day.
12:36 GuShH small, 15-20CM long and 5CM high.
12:36 GuShH enamel, with spray gun
12:36 GuShH but it has to look good
12:36 theBear don't spose yer know much about transformer theory ? i'm 'really' interested in making a successful 'proper' (non-series/choke) transformer for that same cam and maybe ultimately others, but it seems the 'tricky' bit is getting the low freq sync pulses to pass
12:37 GuShH that'll have to depend on the core material
12:37 GuShH ferrite most likely
12:37 ShH eyes the magnetics from a dead
12:37 theBear hmmm, car style enamel i guess then (vs old style house enamel) ... depends on detail... the 'best' is cut out of something, pref. plastic, but cardboard can do, easy manually for short runs if not too complicated
12:38 GuShH I have both
12:38 ShH doesn't think he can cut it nice en
12:38 theBear i been messing with mid size cores, from maybe 1"*5mm up to small maybe 20mm dia * 10mm height toroids, but i think for the low freqs i need MANY more turns
12:38 GuShH and to think there are guys out there with cnc beds that just stare at it all day long
12:39 ShH shakes
12:39 theBear considered maybe something 'ugly' like cap coupling the balanced line and relying on the power gnd (adjacent) to pass the low freq stuff, but kinda ugly
12:39 theBear wait, cap or inductor ? it's been a while since this was in my head
12:40 GuShH I still think commercial baluns + cat5 is as expensive as plain coax in some places.
12:40 theBear maybe, depends on your coax price/bulk and yer balun price.... cat5 is DIRT cheap
12:40 GuShH you can get them off the store for 9 usd a pop, or quite less if you know the owner *grin*
12:41 theBear yerp, and off the top of my head coax in small-bulk is over double the price of cat5 around here
12:41 GuShH 100 meters of cat5e (24awg) is... $56 usd
12:41 theBear over 50c/meter ? you getting ripped off man
12:41 GuShH I live in fcking argentina
12:42 GuShH coax 100 meters (rg59) is $29 usd
12:42 theBear good point, i dunno there, but, wtf ? coax cheaper than cat5 ? that aint right
12:43 GuShH if you had to run 2 cameras to the same place, I'd consider the cat5 because you'd get a few extra pairs for other nifty things.
12:43 GuShH plus at that rate it would be cheaper.
12:44 GuShH on the other hand, the more crap you send through those lines, despite them being twisted, you can cause a lot of intereference
12:44 theBear i dunno what unbonded means, but locally, non cost price, 90c or $1.1 for a meter of rg59, and herm, can't find unterminated cat5 at that site, but it ends up under 30c/meter if you get a reel
12:44 theBear if you got twisted and proper balun/balancing at either end you don't get much trouble
12:44 GuShH oh well I forgot to add the price of connectors, using rj45 is cheaper than bnc
12:45 theBear mmm, that too
12:45 theBear same place cost/wholesale bnc is $1.25 and well, rj45 cost nothing
12:45 GuShH $1.9 usd per compression bnc, vs... cents for the rj45
12:45 GuShH heh
12:45 theBear yerp
12:46 GuShH I do like how sturdy BNC are though
12:46 theBear plus i got rj45 crimper :)
12:46 theBear they are sturdy, i don't need that in the house tho
12:46 theBear in 'rough' areas a ziptie holds in a rj45 good
12:46 GuShH but the balun has bnc termination and I think either a screw terminal or rj45 input
12:47 theBear mmmm, depends on the maker, i've seen them round webland with all kinds of terminations
12:47 GuShH some are directly in-line-bnc-type-deal
12:47 GuShH oh found cheaper bnc for $1
12:47 GuShH the really crappy ones
12:48 GuShH theBear: still, with no box and no input cards there's little I can do right now
12:49 GuShH a cheapie chinese card with 4 inputs costs $32 usd here
12:49 theBear indeed.. do what i did and surprisingly get given an ex-security system from a pub that the company never came to pickup after an upgrade, then get hopelessly drunk and hack up a kernel driver in the middle of the night
12:49 GuShH hahaha
12:50 GuShH $22 best price I could find for the same card
12:50 GuShH mind you, low resolution, low frame rate, high risk of not working properly when you need it the most.
12:51 theBear guys in #motion channel know some good 4 and 8 channel boards commonly findable places like amazon that have proven themselves good
12:51 GuShH I wonder if those crappy usb capture devices with 4 inputs, or even the ones with a single input would work for this (can you have more than one connected on the same system?)
12:51 theBear usb tends to choke on video capture, not sure why with usb2, but it seems to
12:51 GuShH yeah the encoding is done on the host, so your CPU use goes to the sky
12:52 GuShH that's also why the units are cheap I guess
12:53 theBear mmm, the p3-1000 is happy to do 1 encoding in realtime and 3 detection/webcam stream threads at full pal res but 1/3rd framerate
12:54 theBear the detection (full frames/1/3rd framerate) uses about 50% cpu, and the encoding on motion knocks it up to near full
12:54 theBear straight bt878's so it's uncompressed in and passed the same way over pci bus
12:54 GuShH I don't need high frame rate, but I'd like to get at least 10fps
12:54 GuShH per camera
12:55 GuShH I had a chance to get cheap bt878 based cards but I decided not to
12:55 GuShH now I regret it
12:56 GuShH you can actually do some funky things with those
12:57 theBear mmm, a few funky things
12:57 GuShH well, high sampling rate so you can capture a lot of data.
12:57 GuShH or even use it as a makeshift DSO
12:57 GuShH better than a soundcard.
12:57 theBear it's true, on either the video OR audio inputs
12:58 theBear not to mention a billion gpio's
12:58 GuShH that's what I wanted them for, but I didn't want to spend money
12:58 GuShH now they are very hard to find
12:58 theBear i found the one i'm looking at now up the road in a dead pc
12:58 GuShH lol
12:58 GuShH I've never, ever, seen a PC on the road
12:58 GuShH only a 17" CRT
12:59 theBear hmmm, i can't think of ANYWHERE in this country i haven't seen at least a couple now and again
13:09 GuShH :(
15:01 delinquentme heyyy there guys! I'm looking for a timed switch that can run for up to 24 hours
15:01 delinquentme something like an egg timer
15:08 chris_99 you could make one pretty easily with a microcontroller + SSR, but maybe you want something off the shelf?
15:09 delinquentme solid state relay?
15:10 delinquentme I was hoping for something like a physical knob that I cranked to say 2 hours
15:10 delinquentme and it would have a value of 1 or 0
15:13 chris_99 yeah solid state relay. not sure sorry
15:42 cambazz hello. for a while i have been reading about slam, and particle filters, etc.
15:42 cambazz is there any example code, like with cameras, i.e. some sort of visual slam
15:42 cambazz that i can play with without having a robot
15:43 theBear hmm, what is a slam ?
15:45 cambazz it is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ipn42rMh8&feature=player_embedded
15:51 chris_99 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_mapping it's a way to generate a map
16:10 theBear oh got it, just never heard/noticed the acronym
22:28 EverNoob hello :)
22:32 EverNoob well, im from Egypt
22:32 EverNoob Studying mechatronics
22:33 EverNoob im going to my 5th year now, but im late on graduation because i dropped 4 semesters
22:33 furrywolf heyas
22:33 EverNoob hey
22:33 EverNoob how are ya
22:34 furrywolf not too bad
22:34 EverNoob good for you man
22:34 EverNoob you study/work?
22:35 furrywolf I work way too hard.
22:35 EverNoob great man
22:35 EverNoob what do you do?
22:36 furrywolf driver
22:36 EverNoob well, hang in then :)
22:37 EverNoob cars?
22:39 furrywolf yep
22:43 furrywolf courier, driving crap around between businesses and the airport.
22:44 EverNoob must be exhausting man
22:44 EverNoob where you from?
22:45 furrywolf northern california, usa
22:46 EverNoob you into robotics?
22:47 furrywolf somewhat, but I don't have time or money to do anything.
22:51 furrywolf where is kat? :(
23:40 furrywolf I bought a BMW today... not my style of car, but it looks nice, and was cheap.
23:41 rrywolf is now b
23:55 ace4016 o.0
23:55 ace4016 what year/.
23:57 furrywolf '95 740i
23:58 ace4016 ah, cool
23:58 furrywolf I needed something quickly, and it was the cheapest thing I could find quickly that looked half decent.
23:59 furrywolf it was $800.