#robotics Logs
Aug 03 2012
#robotics Calendar
00:00 GuShH so if you shave a 0 off of that, you could build it yourself!
00:01 furrywolf which is what they did.
00:02 GuShH :P
00:03 GuShH Hmm I need to remove some 35mm nuts but every tool I have will damage them and I can't find wrenches that big, only up to 32mm
00:03 furrywolf trying to sell fabrication shops (the people who buy plasma cutters) bits of welded steel for ridiculous prices is not a sound business strategy. :)
00:03 furrywolf can't find? as in, you don't own, or the store you went to didn't have them?
00:03 GuShH right, can't find it at the stores.
00:04 furrywolf your stores suck.
00:04 GuShH totally
00:04 furrywolf even the local hardware store has wrenches up to 3" or so. (~75mm, but they're all in inch sizes, this being america)
00:04 ShH dr
00:05 furrywolf try auto parts stores, especially ones with commercial customers.
00:05 GuShH some of the valves on these water radiators are stuck shut, and to take them apart I need a 35mm wrench :(
00:06 GuShH you can turn them easily, but the rubber seal is stuck, or the shaft has broken inside.
00:06 furrywolf will a socket work, or only a wrench?
00:06 GuShH I can tell because when I open the purge valves on those no water comes out, no air no nothing. either that or 2-3 of these radiators are somehow blocked?
00:07 GuShH also tried removing the valves, assuming they were blocked, but that wasn't the case.
00:07 furrywolf you can also try the local snap-on truck, or however auto shops get their tools where you are, but expect to pay a lot.
00:07 rue_mohr how does the water jet pick up the sand?
00:07 furrywolf venturi
00:07 rue_mohr dry or as a slurry?
00:08 furrywolf dunno, I've never worked a water jet cutter. too expensive, and not buildable easily with home parts.
00:08 e_mohr looks at the pressure wa
00:08 furrywolf I'd imagine a slurry, since I think it's recycled as it runs.
00:08 GuShH veeery high pressure stuff!
00:08 rue_mohr "3000 psi"
00:08 furrywolf rue_mohr: a good pressure washer is ~1/10th the pressure of a cheap waterjet cutter.
00:08 rue_mohr 30000 psi?
00:09 GuShH you'd need fittings rated for almost twice your working pressure, and I would assume those aren't cheap to come by, nor is the pump!
00:09 rue_mohr I think 3000 psi is enough
00:09 ShH would slowly walk away from rue_mohr's shop if he decided to build
00:09 rue_mohr I cant work out how to get the grit into the stream AFTER the nozzel
00:09 GuShH nozzles are also consumables, such as they are with sand blasting equipment :(
00:11 furrywolf rue_mohr: some are up to 100,000 psi
00:11 furrywolf 50,000 psi is '60s technology
00:11 GuShH I noticed they sell some tiny sand blaster guns with a small container on top, but they are way too expensive and you'd only use them to blast miniature pieces...
00:11 rue_mohr furrywolf, at 100000psi, do you need grit?
00:12 furrywolf yes
00:12 furrywolf http://www.flowwaterjet.com/en/waterjet-cutting/uhp-pumps/hyperjet.aspx
00:12 furrywolf 94,000 psi rated pumps vs. 60,000 psi rated pumps:
00:12 furrywolf * Cuts 30-50% faster
00:12 furrywolf * Uses 30-50% less abrasive
00:12 orlok rue: http://www.mit.edu/people/daveg/Humor/ravioli_as_gas
00:13 orlok somehow relevant
00:13 rue_mohr how much pressure can you put on water before it freezes?
00:14 furrywolf I think you need to lower the temperature too.
00:16 rue_mohr From
00:16 rue_mohr this, we see that WileE Coyote often reached far-supersonic speeds because
00:16 rue_mohr he often punched silhouette-type holes in rocks, cliffs, trucks, etc.
00:16 rue_mohr :)
00:18 furrywolf I can't even think how I'd build a pump able to deliver any useful flow at those pressures... a piston pump would need a tiny, very, very hard rod as the piston in a very, very thick-walled cylinder, with some type of very, very fancy rings to seal it...
00:18 rue_mohr keep in mind that pumps just RAISE thep pressure by their rating
00:19 rue_mohr a 100psi pump fed with 100psi will output 200psi
00:19 rue_mohr possibly suffering a structural failure int he processs
00:19 furrywolf only if the entire pump is enclosed in an outer shell containing that pressure
00:20 furrywolf a piston pump doesn't care what its input pressure is unless the whole thing, outside of the cylinder, backside of the piston, etc, is at that pressure too.
00:20 GuShH I would assume they have multiple stage pumps in there!
00:20 rue_mohr hahah I love this article
00:21 GuShH Sadly I've seen more insides of turbines than I've seen any water jet system :(
00:23 furrywolf as far as I know, waterjet cutters are single-stage piston pumps
00:24 furrywolf either a cam drives a piston, or a hydraulic ram drives a piston, very low pressure water in, very high pressure water out...
00:28 GuShH hmm
00:28 furrywolf those pressures aren't really feasable with other designs. a turbine would need stupidly tight tolerances, and wear would exceed them almost instantly.
00:29 furrywolf and you can't usefully multi-stage pistons pumps for non-compressible fluids.
00:30 rue_mohr in less than 100000psi you can make liquid air
00:31 furrywolf http://waterjets.org/images/inline2/waterjet_direct_drive_pump.jpg gee, I wonder which hoses are the inputs, and which the outputs? :)
00:32 furrywolf actually, I'm not sure what the bigger hoses are. bypass probably.
00:32 furrywolf the output is the solid aluminum block
00:33 furrywolf or maybe the bigger ones are the inputs, and the little ones are leakage return...
00:33 furrywolf in any case, the input is definitely not at pressure. :)
00:34 GuShH furrywolf: what's with deep well pumps being multi stage then? or do they mean something else by that?
00:35 furrywolf they're tubine, not piston
00:38 furrywolf for non-positive-displacement pumps, or compressable working fluids, multi-stage works great
00:45 rrywolf curls up next to katsmeow-afk for bed
01:50 GuShH http://i.imgur.com/9xSPC.png
08:59 rue_mohr hould I take it the 480 is a firestarter
08:59 rue_mohr ?
09:03 theBear graphics card ? i may have seen some meme-style graphics earlier implying that
09:04 theBear but you know,all my graphics cards are close to or more than 1/3rd my age, so, i wouldn't know :)
09:15 Tom_itx what's the best non wifi router on the market that will use ddwrt?
09:18 Tom_itx or is ddwrt intended for wifi?
09:19 rue_mohr its wifi, dont ask me!
09:19 Tom_itx so what's a good router to get?
09:20 e_mohr puts a pentuim 2 motherboard on the t
09:20 e_mohr throws some network cards o
09:20 Tom_itx http://www.ubnt.com/unifi
09:20 Tom_itx i got one of those for the wifi part
09:20 Tom_itx rue_mohr i would do that but you never followed thru with your help setting it up
09:21 rue_mohr get any dlink wireless router then
09:21 rue_mohr hmm
09:21 Tom_itx and i don't think i can do it by myself
09:22 Tom_itx i just need something a bit more reliable that what i have
09:23 Tom_itx http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Buffalo_WZR-HP-G300NH#Fix_for_WiFi_Dropouts
09:24 Tom_itx i don't want to go dual band just yet
11:23 furrywolf I've been extremely disappointed with my ubiquiti dish, and would not recommend their products.
11:24 Tom_itx what's wrong with it?
11:25 furrywolf crap firmware. completely unconfigurable, with some options at what-the-fuck-were-they-smoking values and no way to change them.
11:26 furrywolf it has probably 1/20th the options as ddwrt.
11:26 furrywolf and, at least for the airgrid m2 I got, marginal rf performance.
11:27 furrywolf a wrt54g with the same-size dish, even with several adapter plugs, gets a better connection, and wrt54gs aren't exactly known for their spectacular hardware.
11:27 Tom_itx i considered getting a buffalo router
11:27 Tom_itx but i've never used them
11:28 Tom_itx i hear they make it easy to run ddwrt
11:29 furrywolf dunno, haven't used them.
11:30 Tom_itx i have a wrt54gs
11:30 Tom_itx maybe that's where i went wrong
11:30 Tom_itx i thought i had another one around here somewhere
11:30 furrywolf I've been reasonably happy with the wrt54g series, actually... heh.
11:31 Tom_itx i'll dig around and see if i can find it
11:31 Tom_itx it's pretty old
11:32 Tom_itx BEFW11S4 ver 3
11:32 furrywolf don't know anything about that one.
11:33 Tom_itx i don't think it was on their support list
11:38 Tom_itx well i'm gonna try one of their dishes
13:16 grummund what's the difference between full-bridge and h-bridge? same thing?
13:17 theBear from memory full bridge is half a h bridge
13:17 theBear well, h bridge is 2 full bridges
13:17 furrywolf an h-bridge is two half-bridges, which makes a full bridge.
13:17 theBear and a half bridge is just a single switch
13:17 furrywolf they're the same thing.
13:17 theBear oh, woops
13:17 theBear fallback to furry answer, it'll be right
13:17 furrywolf a single switch is a switch, not a bridge. :)
13:18 theBear yeah, but you know kids these days with their arduinos and their shields, they got silly names for everything
13:18 furrywolf lol
13:19 furrywolf any suggestions for a digital camera newer than the pentax optio s6 that fits in an altoids tin?
13:20 grummund Farnell have categories for: Full Bridge; H-bridge; Half Bridge; Half-H; PWM.
13:20 theBear don't go by category in somewhere as big as farnells, you'll get nowhere
13:20 theBear also they tend to have a lot of overlapping categories, like you just listed 3, with 5 names
13:20 grummund gotta start somewhere...
13:21 furrywolf digikey probably has ten names for them...
13:25 Tom_itx no luck finding your camera ehh?
13:25 furrywolf looks like the s7 _should_... hrmm.
13:26 Tom_itx grummund how much current do you need?
13:26 furrywolf bah, but the s7 has no macro mode.
13:26 Tom_itx allegro make quite a few
13:26 Tom_itx the 754410 was a rather popular 1A full bridge
13:27 furrywolf well, it has macro mode, but the minimum distance is 6" instead of 2"...
13:27 Tom_itx mine isn't small but i like it
13:27 grummund Tom_itx: dunno just playing with ideas atm. enough to drive a decent sized stepper.
13:28 Tom_itx you should inquire what most of the reprap guys are using
13:28 grummund good idea
13:28 Tom_itx i would suggest one that you can overdrive the voltage and use chopping
13:28 Tom_itx you will get far better performance from it
13:29 Tom_itx also, the gecko G540? is a good board with 3 on it i believe
13:29 Tom_itx just depends what you're after
13:29 Tom_itx i got a set of G203v for my sheline mill using double stack nema23 steppers
13:29 Tom_itx i'm running them at about 50v
13:30 Tom_itx grummund, rue just ordered a kit for one, you may ask what they sent him for stepper chips
13:31 furrywolf looks like I'll end up getting another s5. bleh.
13:31 grummund wow googled for gecko G540, it's 300 bucks.
13:31 furrywolf I figured this might be a good time to upgrade, but I can't find an upgrade.
13:31 grummund what do you get for that?
13:31 Tom_itx 3 steppers ready to go
13:31 Tom_itx drivers
13:31 Tom_itx they are very good products
13:31 grummund PC interface?
13:32 Tom_itx i am quite pleased with the 203v
13:32 furrywolf I'll probably end up building my own stepper drivers.
13:32 furrywolf I want more current than any of the cheap chips seem to give.
13:32 Tom_itx i'm using linuxcnc for mine and you can interface them to the parport if you want but i got some add on boards for mine
13:32 furrywolf I want to drive them hard at the start of each step then pwm them to keep them from melting...
13:32 Tom_itx the add on boards run at 50Mhz so you get very fine control of your steps
13:33 Tom_itx grummund, here's a page showing my new control: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
13:33 Tom_itx some of it is way overkill
13:33 Tom_itx and the 203v are 7A drivers
13:33 Tom_itx with 10 microstep stepping
13:34 Tom_itx which gives me 40000 steps per inch on my mill
13:34 furrywolf I have some really nice microstepping drivers, but I'll save them for another project.
13:34 furrywolf I have *thinks* two 5A and two 7A.
13:34 Tom_itx it also has a dsp built in to smooth out the power band and give you alot more power were steppers are weakest
13:35 Tom_itx and another thing to look for is current shutdown on idle
13:35 furrywolf they speak rs485 and have their own configuration and programming... too much work. :)
13:35 Tom_itx my stepper motors run barely warm
13:35 Tom_itx they used to run rather hot with my old controller
13:36 Tom_itx if you're just building a reprap or such you don't need that much driver though
13:37 furrywolf I have a sherline mini-mill
13:37 Tom_itx me too
13:37 furrywolf I want to abuse it and make it do things it's too little for, because I can't afford an upgrade. :P
13:37 Tom_itx but my control box is set up now to handle a bigger mill
13:39 furrywolf I really need more Y travel. 3" is just too small.
13:39 furrywolf hrmm, an optio s10 might fit if I pop it apart and remove the lanyard loop.
13:39 Tom_itx grummund, the 540 is a 4 axis control board
13:40 Tom_itx http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-step-motor-drives.html
13:40 Tom_itx i went with the 203v for higher drive voltage and current
13:41 Tom_itx it's virtually the same as the g201 with more 'idiot' protection built in
13:41 Tom_itx the green connectors unplug and have screw terminals
13:42 Tom_itx the reprap guys are using much smaller drivers i believe
13:43 Tom_itx typically with nema17 motors
13:43 furrywolf the s10 won't take my existing stack of batteries and three chargers, though...
13:43 furrywolf if I want plastic, I'll fit an extruder head on my mill. it'll be more accurate and less sucky. :)
13:44 Tom_itx my understanding is you need good quick x y travel
13:45 tsmeow-afk ponders her new $10 1hp ac motor with 6 pole
13:45 furrywolf how'd your motor project go, speaking of which?
13:45 eBear sm
13:46 theBear 6pole 1hp stepper eh :)
13:46 furrywolf Tom_itx: hence more voltage to the steppers. :P
13:46 katsmeow-afk the pancake motor is sitting beside the pwr supply for it, while i am outside putting up more fence at $1/ft to control gods i don't have
13:47 Tom_itx i went with 50 because i could get the transformers etc cheap surplus
13:48 katsmeow-afk yeas, for servoes at high performance, you look for high current at whatever good voltage the xformer is
13:48 Tom_itx grummund what are you gonna make with it?
13:49 katsmeow-afk ditto transformers geerally, you want a xformer for 600v poweramp? i sell you a 120:480v xformer and tell you to plug it in backwards
13:51 grummund Tom_itx: it's just a weird train of thought that started with an interest in writing linux kernel device drivers
13:52 Tom_itx you should join #linuxcnc if you have any interest in motion control
13:52 katsmeow-afk unless you aren't using linux
13:52 Tom_itx i think it's fair to say he is
13:52 katsmeow-afk i isn't tho
13:53 grummund so i was wondering if i can design my own PCI card and write a device driver for it
13:53 Tom_itx that's what mesa does
13:53 katsmeow-afk according to rue, yeas
13:53 theBear well, in theory... the driver bit is easy, the pci card, bit trickier
13:53 Tom_itx they just came out with a new card that is very nice
13:53 Tom_itx pci buss
13:53 Tom_itx 5i25 i believe
13:53 katsmeow-afk but not pci-e, which is totally over the idiocy with high frequency
13:54 grummund only thing is "what" will my PCI card *do* ???
13:54 theBear yeah, 33mhz is doable, much more gets real tricky
13:54 grummund stepper driver is just one idea
13:54 Tom_itx http://www.mesanet.com/
13:54 Tom_itx grummund, search their anything io link
13:54 theBear grummund, well err, that's kinda up to you
13:54 katsmeow-afk it will do whatever you build it to do
13:54 Tom_itx their stuff is pretty good
13:54 Tom_itx integrated with linuxcnc too
13:54 grummund i thought maybe could drive an RGB matrix
13:55 grummund but that's not so useful
13:55 Tom_itx open source if you wanna mess with fpga as well
13:55 furrywolf hrmm, I should make an extruder head that mixes CMYK feedstock to make any color.
13:55 furrywolf four drives and a screw mixer
13:56 grummund so maybe i make a PCI card to replace hardware parallel port for CNC applications
13:56 furrywolf probably four heaters, so the actual mixed volume can be as small as possible.
13:56 Tom_itx grummund that's exactly what they did
13:56 grummund who?
13:56 Tom_itx i got mine before the card was out or i would have one
13:56 Tom_itx mesanet ^^^
13:56 Tom_itx peter hangs out in linuxcnc
13:57 grummund ok so that interfaces with the gecko?
13:57 Tom_itx yes
13:57 furrywolf brb, food
13:57 Tom_itx they have firmware for all sorts of hardware configurations
13:57 grummund and what about the extra add on cards you mentioned
13:57 grummund ?
13:57 Tom_itx for the 5i25 they have a daughter card.. i forget the number
13:58 Tom_itx the ones i have are the 7i43 and the 7i47 daughter card
13:58 Tom_itx since all they had was parallel port interface when i was looking or a higher end card i really didn't need
13:59 grummund can't see those on the site
14:00 Tom_itx which?
14:00 Tom_itx look under anything io fpga cards
14:00 grummund what you just mentioned
14:00 Tom_itx the 5i25 is at the top of the list
14:01 Tom_itx it will drive 2 daughter cards
14:01 Tom_itx and has sserial interface as well
14:02 grummund that's still not what i was thinking of
14:02 Tom_itx what did you want?
14:03 grummund hmm the 5i25 is probably it
14:03 Tom_itx the daughter cards make it very flexible
14:03 Tom_itx you should ask about them in there
14:03 Tom_itx pcw_home works for them
14:03 grummund yeah it's not a robotics project i had in mind
14:04 grummund as such
14:04 Tom_itx that's fine, they sell mostly to oem anyway
14:04 Tom_itx but support the hobbyist community rather well
14:04 grummund the object is to learn linux kernel hacking
14:04 Tom_itx seems he just showed up if you had questions for him
14:05 grummund i though design my own PCI card would be a good start
14:05 Tom_itx there are guys in there writing drivers and such for various hardware
14:05 Tom_itx it might be a good place to get your feet wet
14:06 grummund maybe i'll go with an RGB matrix ;)
14:06 Tom_itx for what i did, i feel their stuff was top choice
14:07 grummund yeah but it's already designed ;)
14:07 Tom_itx all the encoder interfaces, stepper drivers, gpio etc are all built in their drivers
14:07 grummund no point for me to re-invent the wheel
14:07 Tom_itx heh
14:07 Tom_itx i didn't know what you were after but it sounded like it would fit
14:08 grummund i don't have any mechanics to control, it would just be controlling a motor on the desk
14:08 Tom_itx that 5i25 is their latest card
14:08 Tom_itx well maybe you need to make a reprap :)
14:09 grummund so using commercial kit with existing software and device drivers kinda defeats the point
14:09 furrywolf http://fw.bushytails.net/mysterytool01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/mysterytool02.jpg I don't usually find tools I can't identify, but I don't know what that one is. yes, the two side prongs are not the same shape, and it's intentional, not broken. no markings of any kind on it. feels like good steel.
14:09 furrywolf gave someone $2 for it and a park bottom bracket tool... figured for that price, even if I never figure out what to use it for, I'd get it. :)
14:10 Tom_itx make your own
14:10 grummund well that was the idea ;)
14:10 Tom_itx i was after an update for my mill and what i got fit rather well
14:10 theBear hmmm... that IS a tricky one... MAYBE something that should be attached to a wheel-making-thingy
14:11 grummund PCI card with an AVR on it... the AVR does all the work, and linux sees it as /dev/stepper1, /dev/stepper2, etc.
14:11 Tom_itx reprap didn't go pci but they did use avr for their steppers
14:11 grummund echo '200' > /dev/stepper1; ## moves to position 200
14:12 furrywolf it's adjustable, and it swivels back and forth, but only in one direction, so it can't function like a universal joint.
14:14 furrywolf it's half inch drive
14:14 Tom_itx grummund have you looked at the limited gcode for repraps?
14:14 grummund no
14:15 Tom_itx that way standard cad can be export to it with less grief
14:15 grummund Tom_itx: i'm not interested in building a machine of any kind.
14:16 grummund Tom_itx: it would be just proof of concept that i can make a custom PCI card of some description and write a linux device driver for it.
14:16 Tom_itx stepper kinda rings 'machine'
14:16 Tom_itx i'd say go for it
14:17 Tom_itx i might have a pci card for eagle
14:17 grummund Tom_itx: yeah obviously turning a motor is sexier than a blinking LED ;)
14:18 Tom_itx if you're just messin around and don't care about alot of power, the 754410 will drive a stepper motor
14:18 Tom_itx it's a full bridge chip
14:18 Tom_itx just 1A though
14:19 grummund well i suppose if i was putting effort into it then a design that could be eventually sold would be good
14:19 grummund but it looks like mesa have that covered
14:20 grummund so i should just blink an LED and be happy with that ;)
14:20 Tom_itx fenchurch used the allegro 3995 for one i believe
14:20 Tom_itx it may be 3A but it's tiny
14:22 Tom_itx grummund you could get some rgb ones :)
14:22 grummund a matrix even ;)
14:22 Tom_itx did you see ondraster's display?
14:22 Tom_itx i was rather impressed
14:23 grummund nope i haven't been following much sorry
14:23 Tom_itx take a look if he posts it
14:24 Tom_itx in avr..
14:47 furrywolf bah, someone locked themselves out of the warehouse, need to go let them in. bbl.
15:30 rue_mohr furrywolf, I have a servo driver I was working on like that, the driver itself takes over a serial port and presents as an array of servos
16:04 GuShH furrywolf: is it possible to drill 8mm tempered glass at home?
16:11 theBear not sure anyone can drill tempered glass
16:12 theBear generally the tiniest chip ANYWHERE and it self destructs
16:12 eBear used to be a gla
16:13 joink laser perhaps? :P
16:13 theBear i dunno, i don't think it's so much the chip itself as the breaking of the tempered structure
16:14 theBear and damn, you'd need a serious laser to cut glass :)
16:14 joink haha, yeah :P
16:14 furrywolf you might be able to use a wet diamond grit bit, but I've never tried.
16:14 furrywolf a UV laser should work fine on glass... it absorbs uv quite nicely.
16:15 theBear mmm, way better than visible i spose
16:15 joink http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9023713839497634267 :)
16:15 theBear hmm... that kinda white looking 'artwork' on glass is usually lasered isn't it ?
16:15 GuShH joink: I said at home, not at nasa.
16:15 GuShH also what's the "E" coating they use on glass these days?
16:16 furrywolf no idea. glass is not something I've ever worked with.
16:16 GuShH I'm not going to go with argon filled bullshit, no manufacturer seems to list how long it'll last.
16:16 GuShH then when it does vent enough, it gets all fogged up
16:16 ShH nudges the
16:17 GuShH theBear: anything white looking on glass I'd say was sand blasted :p
16:17 GuShH otherwise nice clean cuts are wet cuts as furrywolf mentioned
16:17 theBear maybe, hard to draw a 'photo quality' 'greyscale' image with sand
16:17 GuShH no!
16:17 theBear no?
16:17 GuShH if you use a template that has tiny holes in it, perhaps it'll work
16:18 GuShH yes!
16:18 theBear maybe, i got a distant memory of laser etched or a similar term
16:18 furrywolf google seriously needs to maintain a list of sites with actual content, then NOT RETURN any other site which has word-for-word identical content.
16:18 GuShH probably exists also
16:18 furrywolf fucking half the results would go away
16:18 GuShH does not fall into the "do it at home" category though
16:18 GuShH in theory those sites have less score than the original sites
16:18 theBear heh, i assume they claim the 'exclude pages with similar content' does that
16:18 GuShH in theory that is.
16:19 GuShH their score system is so obscure I think it may not even exist.
16:19 theBear but tbh, apart from a resent hump in the graph, google has been getting steadily less useful since it started
16:19 ShH just got a letter from google offering $200 in ads, a
16:19 GuShH humps? that'd be me
16:19 theBear and of course they constantly change the score system so only 'google associates' can get you right to the top of the list
16:20 GuShH damn it. another partial shipment on a 2 item order.
16:20 theBear lol
16:20 theBear farnells ?
16:20 GuShH random chinese site
16:21 GuShH spare parts for a flashlight
16:21 theBear hmmm
16:21 GuShH switch died, and I thought why not try one of these cheap lithium cells that might have been used in bill gates' laptop once.
16:21 furrywolf also, why do people who don't know what they're talking about insist on talking anyway?
16:21 GuShH the last two I got (smaller size) were actually as advertised.
16:22 GuShH furrywolf: me? :(
16:22 theBear hehe, you mean us pair or real idiots ?
16:22 furrywolf when trying to find if this camera fits in an altoids tin, some pages say yes, some pages say no. neither set seems to have actually tried.
16:22 GuShH lol
16:22 GuShH ah, the internet.
16:22 GuShH likewise, half the internet thinks the cat is dead, the other half thinks it's a troll faced otter.
16:22 theBear hehe, like i always say, forums (and all derivitives) are gonna be the downfall of the web
16:23 GuShH "remember me" used to work on all sites, not anymore it seems
16:25 theBear erm, this is a concept i am not familiar with
16:25 GuShH charlie sheen's new show really sucks...
16:25 GuShH I blame you theBear.
16:26 GuShH you should've done something about two and a half men!
16:26 furrywolf if I filter out some phrases used in amazon reviews and other places, google's results drop from 900,000 to 14.
16:26 furrywolf that's 14, not 14,000.
16:26 furrywolf because EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM is a spam site scraping actual content from elsewhere.
16:26 GuShH also 900.000 that they would've never served you, because they have a limit, not that they would've been useful results
16:28 GuShH but hey if you look up ryobi carburetor tool my site should come up! and you'll see my ghetto tool!
16:29 GuShH it's one of the pages with most hits, not sure why I wasn't able to track the sources... people just aren't happy about these screws.
16:30 GuShH people claiming to have used "needle nosed pliers" to adjust them are full of it, specially because the screws come loctited.
16:30 furrywolf nothing I've owned has had anything other than standard slotted screws on the carb.
16:31 theBear maybe, there are a bazillion different pointy pliers out there
16:31 GuShH haven't tried the snap ring pliers
16:31 theBear circlip pliers ? that'd be a horrible abuse of some of the 'finest' pliers around
16:32 GuShH theBear: the hole is just too small for most pliers I've seen! and if you get it in there it's hard to turn and keep a grip when theres only 1 notch in there
16:32 theBear i'm not suggesting it, just saying there's a lotta different shape and size pliers
16:32 GuShH the specific tool costs 20 dollars otherwise.
16:33 theBear yeah i remember
16:33 GuShH and guess what? homelite made it so you'd need a shorter version of said tool, which is hard to find.
16:33 ShH is still annoyed at these compa
16:33 theBear heh yeah, i have trouble letting these things go
16:35 furrywolf sounds like one of those things you fix with a few strokes of a hacksaw blade, making it a nice slotted screw.
16:35 theBear heh, we went thru all this months ago
16:35 theBear fine once you get it out, but before that
16:36 katsmeow-afk dremel abrasive disc makes nice slotted screws out of any other head
16:36 furrywolf yep
16:36 furrywolf so do thin diamond grid wheels
16:37 theBear if you can get to the head
16:37 furrywolf I've adjusted a few stupid security screws this way.
16:37 furrywolf s/grid/grit
16:37 katsmeow-afk course, i found a body grinder got the screws out faster than a screwdriver
16:37 katsmeow-afk well, not"out" , exactly
16:38 theBear erg, few hours left, i gonna try sleeping again... seacrest out
16:39 tsmeow-afk appolog
16:41 GuShH furrywolf: but when the things are new and on warranty it's hard to but out the dremel on them
16:41 GuShH at least for me.
16:41 GuShH bust out*
16:42 katsmeow-afk :-(
16:42 GuShH and no, you can't get to their heads directly without cutting through the housing too.
16:42 furrywolf if it's under warranty, why are you fixing it yourself?
16:43 GuShH is adjusting a carb a fix?
16:43 furrywolf it voids the warranty...
16:43 GuShH because sending it to whatever shop will cost me money
16:43 furrywolf and shouldn't need doing.
16:43 furrywolf if it needs adjusting, it has a problem, and if it's under warranty, it should not cost you money for them to fix the problem.
16:44 GuShH oh so things magically appear on their end
16:44 GuShH and time magically stretches out
16:44 furrywolf if you adjust it yourself, it's no longer under warranty, as adjusting the carb is instant warranty-void.
16:44 furrywolf way too easy to ruin a 2-stroke by playing with the mixture.
16:44 GuShH how could you tell if I turned it back to it's original preset?
16:45 GuShH you don't play with it, you just set it so it runs properly based on your climate
16:45 Tom_itx furrywolf not if you know how to tune them
16:45 furrywolf Tom_itx: of course
16:45 GuShH it's like with CFLs
16:45 furrywolf the average homeowner does not.
16:45 GuShH and their temperature ratings.
16:46 Tom_itx average is alot less than it used to be
16:46 furrywolf and common sense isn't nearly as common as it should be.
16:46 furrywolf bbl, time for work.
16:47 GuShH by ruin you probably mean excessive carbon buildup, overheating...
16:47 GuShH but there are common wear problems that can be circumvented with a quick adjust, before you go for a rebuild kit among other things...
16:48 Tom_itx GuShH ruin as in run it too lean and throw a rod
16:48 GuShH you'd really need to not know what you are doing to ruin it like that.
16:49 Tom_itx there are those out there
16:49 GuShH 50% chances they would've got caught on a blade or worse if it wasn't for them blowing up the engine then.
16:51 GuShH anyway you can definetly hear when the mix isn't right.
16:51 GuShH and also feel it.
16:51 GuShH in my case, it's too rich
16:52 GuShH should we mention how the oil fuel mix also influences this? heh
16:53 GuShH and how most idiots run it on straight gas and try to return it with a siezed engine.
19:57 rue_mohr todays package is a relective IR sensor
19:59 Tom_itx oh did i mention the spindle encoder works great?
19:59 rue_mohr good good
20:01 Tom_itx i was rather happy i could repurpose something
20:03 rue_mohr no robotics tommorow, I'm gonna take a nap and then stay up till god-awefull-oclock
20:04 Tom_itx heh
20:05 Tom_itx rue_mohr
20:05 Tom_itx you could use a brass nut to fit over the glass and thread to the other side too
20:05 Tom_itx like a thermocouple
21:56 furrywolf yes, I was talking about running it lean. 2-strokes do not like being lean, as then there's no oil on the cylinder walls...
22:00 GuShH don't worry, it's running rich... so worst case scenario I'm pissing off greenpeace idiots and I may have a fouled sparkplug and extra carbon deposits.
22:05 furrywolf at least it's adjustable... here many new things have fixed jets, to comply with smog laws. and even small tools (lawnmowers, etc) often have 2-barrel carbs, again to meet emissions rules...
22:05 GuShH bleeh
22:06 furrywolf my neighbor where I used to live had a handheld string trimmer... little one... 4-stroke engine and 2-barrel carb.
22:07 furrywolf each barrel was around 1cm diameter.
22:17 furrywolf or maybe it was her lawn mower. don't remember which I was fixing that day. I do remember the string trimmer was a 4-stroke, though. never seen one like it.
22:27 furrywolf http://www.spikes-spiders.com/parts/parts-common-to-quick-compact-sport-and-alpine-pro-style-of-spikes-spider-traction-devices/95-001silver way too fucking expensive
22:33 furrywolf $40 EACH. for a bit of stamped sheet metal.
22:33 furrywolf you need one per wheel, of course.
22:39 GuShH furrywolf: honda makes 4 stroke string trimmers, not sure who else does now
22:39 GuShH aren't you limited in motion when it comes to 4 strokes?
22:39 furrywolf yeah, hers was a honda.
22:39 GuShH I use mine in all directions, almost.
22:39 furrywolf hrmm, with enough oil slingers, it probably wouldn't care too much.
22:39 GuShH being 2 stroke it doesn't mind.
22:40 GuShH and if the user tilts it 180° ?
22:40 GuShH won't it suck up the oil and possibly get damaged?
22:40 GuShH I wish I had more 4 stroke tools...
22:41 furrywolf should be able to avoid that with the vent system design... a y-tube to opposite sides of the engine would make it not suck, at least.
22:41 furrywolf I don't know what, if anything, honda did.
22:41 furrywolf I was just doing minor maintenance.
22:41 GuShH only 4 stroke small engines here are the water pump, genset and the mower heh
22:42 GuShH couldn't find adapters for the water pump yet, I need new fittings because my hoses are not 2"
22:42 GuShH they're a bit smaller
22:42 GuShH not sure if there will be a pressure issue or if I'll strain the pump by using them
22:42 furrywolf 1.5 is also common
22:42 GuShH worst case scenario I'll have to buy new hoses
22:42 furrywolf well, you probably have weird metric sizes.
22:42 GuShH no, we use inches for these hoses
22:42 GuShH strange enough
22:43 GuShH and also for air fittings
22:43 GuShH about half my tools are metric when it comes to wrenches, etc.
22:44 furrywolf I'll remember that next time someone bitches about the US'es continued use of inches while "the whole rest of the world" is metric. :)
22:47 GuShH an inch here is called "pulgada" which stands for thumb :/
22:47 GuShH don't want to burst their bubble but my thumb at it thickest point is 0.9 inches.
22:48 GuShH unless I press on it!
22:48 GuShH most measuring tools I can find are mixed metric/imperial anyway.
22:49 GuShH furrywolf: 40 usd for that?
22:49 GuShH is someone even buying those
22:51 furrywolf the complete tire spike set is $500ish
22:51 furrywolf for two wheels
22:53 theBear the real rest of the world IS metric <grin>
22:53 GuShH lol
22:54 furrywolf http://humboldt.craigslist.org/tls/3159013623.html if only I had ten grand spare...
22:54 GuShH and how much else in transport?
22:54 GuShH and where would you put it!
22:55 furrywolf since it's about 3 miles from here, transport is my truck.
22:55 furrywolf where to put it is the hard part...
22:56 theBear hmmm, you'd wanna hope he had a fork
22:56 furrywolf I have enough friends with loaders I could bribe one of them to help.
22:57 furrywolf a guy up the road has a forklift too... used it a while ago when we were pulling the cab off a ford truck.
22:58 theBear hehe forklifts at wreckers make me laugh... "hmm.. car... ok, thru the windows <smash>"
22:58 GuShH wish I could get that cnc shop too :(
22:58 furrywolf http://www.exapro.com/product/2012/06/P20605077/7042c284df0d46966f3b96c133c93479/bridgeport-interact-412-3-axis-vertical-machining-centre-p20605077_2.jpg
22:58 GuShH I'd even let theBear play with it!
22:58 furrywolf one of those would be a nice toy.
22:58 theBear and what those guys do with tine extenders.. some of us might call it art
22:58 theBear err, tyne?
22:59 furrywolf theBear: yep, they do that here too, if they figure they're just going to crush it. if it's new enough they expect people to buy parts off it, then they're gentle.
22:59 theBear they tend to pick the bits they don't want, and more often than not there isn't much to sell in the roof
23:00 furrywolf pissed me off once... I wanted to buy the rear axle off a car, and they lift it for you, you're not supposed to jack them up yourself. somehow the fact I wanted to buy the rear axle didn't get transferred to the forklift guy, who proceeded to lift it from the rear with the forklift... by the CV joints.
23:00 theBear oooh
23:00 furrywolf trashed both of them.
23:01 furrywolf complete doors with glass are worth a decent chunk of cash for a newer car
23:01 furrywolf if they smash the glass and bend the door frame, it becomes scrap metal instead.
23:02 theBear yerp
23:02 furrywolf you can tell what they think the fate of the car is by how they lift it... if they're just going to crush it, the guy just rams the stupidly extended forks through from any convienent angle... if they're going to sell body parts, they carefully lift by the rockers.
23:03 furrywolf if it's REALLY nice, they use a tow truck and move it properly.
23:03 theBear hehe, i don't think that last one happens here
23:04 furrywolf like a current model year car with repairable damage, that was only junked because the insurance declared it a total loss.
23:05 furrywolf they move those to a special part of the yard that you're not allowed to touch, since they try selling them as complete and repairable, which they quickly no longer are once people start removing bits.
23:05 theBear actually i have seen one yard that has a few 'nicer' cars... still never seen them with a towtruck, probly just tie 'em to a fork
23:05 theBear also there's maybe 1 or 2 self-pick wreckers in each state, the rest are just ask for what you want
23:06 furrywolf only wrecker around here does either... you can pull parts, or they'll pull them for you, and charge a lot more.
23:07 furrywolf they're both charge more and break more bits you needed, so you're better off pulling things yourself. :)
23:07 furrywolf they'll
23:08 furrywolf they tend to go for least time when pulling things, rather than least smashed bits...
23:08 theBear yeah, most places here you don't get that choice, but a lot of them are good at doing it themselves... used to go to a place in the city over the other side and it was just like repco/new car spares place.... ask for a part, they wander into the racks and come back with one just lke new
23:08 theBear and cheap too
23:11 furrywolf nothing like that here
23:12 GuShH those places here are privately owned and you can't get anywhere near them without having 3 dogs biting your ass. and worst part is that those cars just rot there indefinetely.
23:13 Triffid_Hunter GuShH: funniest solution for dogs is to mix eucalyptus oil and coffee and spray it on yourself or them or whatever.. the coffee makes them go really hyper, and the eucalyptus oil is like being repeatedly kicked in the face
23:14 Triffid_Hunter so don't hang around when you initially dose them, but soon enough they'll leave you alone
23:14 GuShH ok? I'm not breaking into any of those places.
23:14 furrywolf heh, the local scrapyard used to have a dog... big huge rotweiler/something mix, probably around 120lbs... silly fluffy thing, wanted to lean against you and get pet the whole time you were looking for stuff. :)
23:15 theBear mmmm, very few dogs, even trained ones, can resist the awesomeness of bear
23:15 GuShH THE bear?
23:15 GuShH when are you starting your own rant show dammit?
23:15 furrywolf the scrapyard was owned by nice people, and as a result, had a nice dog. dogs tend to reflect their owners' personality quite well...
23:18 furrywolf it was owned by a husband-wife couple... the husband passed away, now the wife runs it. nice woman.
23:18 theBear heh, ya wanna know what really grinds my gears ?
23:19 GuShH not using the clutch?
23:19 GuShH maybe it's missing fluid, give it a check.
23:19 ShH
23:20 theBear heh
23:20 rrywolf has only mechanical clutch linkages, not hydra
23:23 furrywolf "State Route 96 is closed from the Humboldt County line to Dillon Creek after 23 separate fires erupted along a 20-mile stretch of highway this afternoon. " gee, that's not the least bit suspicious.
23:24 furrywolf that's either arson or a dragging load. heh.
23:24 theBear hehe
23:25 rue_shop playing with some large pipe to make a prototype nozzle
23:25 rue_shop went ok
23:26 furrywolf rue_mohr: you need to make a CMYK extruder. four heaters feeding into a screw mixer in a fifth heater.
23:26 rue_shop agreed
23:29 rue_shop ok cool
23:30 rue_shop furrywolf, I'm an RGB fan tho
23:30 theBear well, i'm a technicolour UC then
23:31 furrywolf YUV!
23:32 eBear consi
23:32 theBear i wonder if extruded plastic is additive or subtractive
23:32 rue_shop hmm
23:33 rue_shop what do you put something clear on to take a good pic of it?
23:34 furrywolf the horn of an invisible pink unicorn
23:36 furrywolf is it highly refractive? something with lots of texture helps.
23:38 rue_shop quartz is NOT like glass
23:38 GuShH theBear: isn't it just like paint?
23:38 rue_shop it wont hold its heat long enough for me to push it onto a flat surface
23:39 rue_shop and the heat required to melt it is stressing out the carbon rod I'm manipulating it with
23:39 rue_shop CARBON!
23:43 theBear i dunno, i spose they'd mix in the screw, yeah, subtractive like paint
23:53 GuShH oh ffs... yet another fancy screw http://www.ebay.com/itm/530035560-CARBURETOR-ADJUST-TOOL-FOR-WEEDEATER-TRIMMER-EHP-Zama-Walbro-Homelite-/251122530401?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7811b861
23:54 GuShH what is it with these assholes!
23:57 rue_shop Triffid_Hunter, ok I'll show ya what I made
23:57 furrywolf hrmm, square? can you stick a robertson-drive screw over the head and use it as a screwdriver? :)
23:58 GuShH they don't leave a big gap between the screw though so you can't really get creative
23:59 GuShH bah I need water traps for my compressor :(