#robotics Logs

Jul 11 2012

00:09 rue_mohr my goal is just odd, thats all
00:10 orlok graphite rocks
00:10 orlok i'd just like to say that
00:10 rue_mohr I have 23 pre-filtered items
00:10 orlok its made me code again too
00:10 orlok "code"
00:11 rue_mohr mmm prdy rocks
00:11 rue_mohr so black and shiny
00:11 orlok you know rrdtool/cacti/etc etc?
00:11 rue_mohr rrdtool yes
00:11 orlok imagine that but not crap
00:11 rue_mohr its my arch nemisis
00:12 orlok imagine that except flexible
00:12 orlok you just throw data at a socket
00:12 rue_mohr I know rrdtool in context of lmsensors,
00:12 orlok and the graphs are astoundingly flexible, done on the fly
00:12 orlok yup
00:12 rue_mohr but lmsensors dosn't ahve a proper sampling interval system
00:12 orlok it makes it look like a broken throwback to last century
00:12 rue_mohr mm
00:13 rue_mohr I hope the parts for the 3d printer arrive soon
00:13 orlok UDP messages like this
00:13 orlok system.jamesr-laptop.loadavg_15min 0.73 1341982934
00:13 orlok and thats it
00:13 rue_mohr I wouldn't want to finish a machine before they get here
00:13 orlok description, value, timestamp
00:13 orlok and you can do graphs on the fly with any data sets, any tiemrange, etc
00:14 rue_mohr the logging system I made uses sql
00:14 orlok any sets of data you have can be graphed along side each other
00:14 orlok this has its own datastore.. but its trivial to send data to it
00:15 GuShH furrywolf: one thing that seems to favour these compressors for low volume use is their duty cycle
00:15 GuShH also I've seen a few converted for painting (specially at the rc and modelling communities, people living in apartments can't have noisy compressors and the available ones for airbrushing suck!)
00:16 GuShH so once I figure out the unloading part and get a start relay, I'll definetly keep it in one piece.
00:16 GuShH until I can find better parts at least.
00:17 orlok rue_mohr: what sort of printer type you going for?
00:17 tsmeow-afk is amazed that what she did on a C64 in an oem injection molding facility is now a nix app with a name "rddto
00:17 furrywolf they also make decent vacuum pumps, which is a use I see them used for a lot more often than for compressing air...
00:18 GuShH define decent
00:18 orlok rue_mohr: i see theres a lot of chinese and indian mendel/whatever clones on ebay
00:18 GuShH also I could use it as one by soldering an extra fitting too.
00:18 furrywolf depends on the compressor.
00:18 orlok katsmeow-afk: yeah, its handy to see whats happening, but it really is something from last century (no offense)
00:18 katsmeow-afk i did ~140 variables with 1 minute time intervals, and cleared at shift change, doing printouts hourly
00:18 GuShH furrywolf: non industrial, average run of the mill fridge compressor.
00:19 orlok katsmeow-afk: graphite lets you do complete on the fly visualisation over whatever time scale with any data set you throw at it
00:19 GuShH I wondered about paralleling them, but I don't have extras to play with anyway.
00:19 katsmeow-afk ok
00:19 ShH offers furrywolf some
00:19 katsmeow-afk try it on a computer with 64k ram, when 32k of that is io and bios and os and basic interpreter
00:20 katsmeow-afk :-P
00:20 furrywolf I've heard some make excellent vacuum pumps, some don't... I've never tried.
00:20 rue_mohr orlok, mendelish
00:20 GuShH I'm worried I'll blow it up if I try to draw a vacuum
00:20 GuShH don't have any proper way of limiting it I think
00:20 rue_mohr orlok, the parts set is from the usa
00:21 furrywolf and, blah, despite the estimate of the plane being here in 4 minutes, flightaware shows it only halfway here. their reputation for never, ever having a plane land on time appears to be in no danger.
00:21 GuShH will it self-limit or stall?
00:21 furrywolf it won't stall.
00:21 furrywolf a vacuum is only 14.5ish psi
00:21 furrywolf it does no more work than pumping to 14.5psi...
00:21 furrywolf as long as it has enough oil in it, it can pull a vacuum all day.
00:21 GuShH furrywolf: sell them a patch for their software that offsets their estimated value by X
00:22 GuShH nice to know
00:22 GuShH I'm going to play with that tomorrow.
00:22 furrywolf GuShH: the managers need to be patched, not the software.
00:22 GuShH lol
00:22 furrywolf they like telling people flights will be on time.
00:22 GuShH warning: patching may involve hot lead
00:22 katsmeow-afk i would not be late if i were you, even if the plane is or isn't
00:22 orlok rue_mohr: i wonder if doing 3d printer repairs/etc will ever be a "valid" job
00:23 orlok i figure, by the time Milly is old enough to have a real "birthday party" with kids from school
00:23 furrywolf katsmeow-afk: I get there 15 minutes after the plane lands, because that's how long it will take before there's even a chance of someone trying to help you.
00:23 GuShH I almost got in an argument at the store today, they wanted me to donate 20 cents! I told them NO, a couple in front of me laughed so I ranted on about how it was a scam and they are bastards and after how the manager treated me they should be the ones donating me money.
00:23 GuShH they didn't have anything to say.
00:23 orlok i'll be able to print them all customised party favor thingies
00:23 GuShH (they do this so they won't have to carry enough change to give you the exact amount in return)
00:23 GuShH (if you refuse, you get the nearest big number in change, so you win if you say no)
00:23 katsmeow-afk they help you?
00:24 orlok GuShH: i prefer the idea of being able to "gamble" a round up/round down
00:24 furrywolf to save money, they have the ticket counter staff double as ground crew. so when a plane lands, they all disappear to unload passengers, luggage, etc, leaving everyone waiting in line for a half hour with no service.
00:24 GuShH orlok: you have a kid named Milly?
00:24 theBear it's fucking currency ! there should be no gambling involved @!
00:24 rue_mohr theBear, was it 5c they round to in oz?
00:24 GuShH furrywolf: sounds like the tiny companies operating near the freezing regions of Canada :p
00:25 GuShH theBear: well I'm particularly upset with everyone in that store, almost everyone.
00:25 theBear yes, and i'm still pissed off 20 years later that it's legal to price things inbetween 5c increments !
00:25 furrywolf bbl, time to head out that day.
00:25 rue_mohr haha I didn't even notice
00:25 theBear at least you can win on the fuel pumps
00:25 furrywolf that way
00:25 GuShH I argued with the manager about his idea of a discount on returned items, he said he'd rather throw the stuff away than sell it to "people like me"
00:25 GuShH theBear: they still do the 99c thing here, but 1c coins have been decomissioned for a decade.
00:26 theBear <shakes head> tut tut, people like YOU !
00:26 orlok GuShH: Amelia
00:26 GuShH theBear: yes people like me who won't pay 30% off on something that's missing 90% of the parts and is probably broken, with no returns allowed
00:26 orlok 9 months tomorrow
00:26 GuShH when you tell them "you won't sell it like that you may as well throw them away" that's their response, they like to pick up a fight the bastards.
00:26 theBear they do returns with missing parts ? oh dear... thecracks are all starting to show
00:27 GuShH exactly.
00:27 GuShH and by their reasoning I may be the one returning the shit with missing items.
00:27 GuShH heck they fail to figure out a system to prevent that, even.
00:27 GuShH (and no I've never done that)
00:27 theBear orright, i'm gonna make an ungodly amount of coffee and see if i can get in the mood to find some work
00:27 GuShH there's a thing called a unique id, everyone has one... and you could use it to determine who bought what, when. and if it got returned and then re-purchased by the same person, or not.
00:27 theBear maybe a department store manageement position <grin>
00:28 ShH fr
00:28 GuShH at least you wouldn't call it "your" business and pretend you friggin own the place
00:28 theBear oh i would, but i'd know i was abusing my power :)
00:28 GuShH big shot dickhead, if I wanted I could've waited outside, like in school!
00:28 GuShH but it's too cold out.
00:28 theBear i'd spend most of my time hovering near the returns desk waiting for PEOPLE LIKE YOU !
00:29 theBear hehe, nah, i'd be a cool manager
00:29 GuShH no, the only time I returned something it wasn't missing anything and I made damn sure of that.
00:29 theBear probly get paid more than electronic repair and development round these parts too
00:29 GuShH I had to return it because the quality was horrible.
00:30 GuShH these were all 2 stroke tools and most people don't even know they use oil mix, they probably abuse the things and return them when they refuse to start. then it ends up on a bench with a 30% off tag, leaking oil. and then there's me, complaining because they aren't 80% off.
00:30 GuShH you know, buy them for parts and that means less stuff goes to the bin.
00:31 GuShH furrywolf: can you actually pump oil with these compressors?
00:31 GuShH or they wouldn't even start-up
00:32 GuShH please don't say "you are already pumping oil"
00:33 GuShH theBear: that's also how I got a cheap chainsaw that only had a broken $5 part.
00:36 theBear mmm.... the average person DOES seem to have a stupid amount of trouble starting a new or good condition 2 stroke something these days :(
00:36 theBear hmm.... suggest a job i might not hate
00:37 GuShH hitman
00:39 theBear "Experienced electronics engineer needed for design of PCBs for WiFi and 5.8 GHz spectrum applications" PFFT ! in this state/country !?!?!?! crazy employers
00:40 theBear ooh, fulltime salesman at local hobby electronics chain, start immediately ? hmm...
00:40 theBear i could finally order the RIGHT tips for my iron :)
00:41 theBear what is "survey and positioning equipment" ? laser theodolites and stuff maybe ?
00:41 orlok theBear: hmm, jaycar?
00:41 katsmeow-afk or start a soldering iron collection!
00:41 theBear orlok, mmm
00:42 katsmeow-afk my brain shut off
00:51 e_mohr tries something that requires tho
00:51 rue_mohr nope mines not responding
00:51 theBear anyone heard of this 'Gorgon Project' ? apparently it's big and high profile
00:52 rue_mohr no
00:52 katsmeow-afk the attempt to make the ost gas blowout wells in human history?
00:52 katsmeow-afk it's an aussy thing, rue
00:53 katsmeow-afk and it's happening right after that oil gusher blowout last year(?) in the ocean
00:53 rue_mohr all 15 items are 'shipped'
00:54 rue_mohr I know nothing by that name
00:54 katsmeow-afk 'Greater Gorgon' refers to a grouping of several gas fields, including Gorgon, Chandon, Geryon, Orthrus, Maenad, Eurytion, Urania, Chrysaor, Dionysus, Jansz/Io, and West Tryal Rocks, situated in the Barrow sub-basin of the Carnarvon Basin)
00:54 katsmeow-afk surely you have heard of all of those?
00:55 theBear mmm.... apparently they need some huge telecommunications infrastructure... seems they're big on engineering bachelors too, rules me out... my experience covers a lot of official education missing, but i can't talk my way into something like that
00:56 theBear so what's the deal when normal people get a job ? you just send off a bunch of applications and see what happens ?
00:56 eBear has never got a job the 'normal'
00:57 rue_mohr you have to know people
00:57 katsmeow-afk or you do what the company asks and see what doesn't happen
00:57 rue_mohr who do you know?
01:03 theBear i know people, they're just far away or i don't respect them enough to work for them anymore
01:04 theBear should check the letterbox too, haven't done that for a month
01:04 theBear it's about the time of year the social services will wanna re-evaluate my crippledness, and i don't wanna end up forced into some shitty job at a supermarket or holding a sign ...
01:05 rue_mohr letterbox
01:05 rue_mohr heh
01:05 theBear you crazy foreigners :)
01:06 theBear i should make a list of stuff not to say in interviews i guess, including that :)
01:06 rue_mohr rice bubbles....
01:06 rue_mohr torch...
01:06 theBear what ? puffed rice ? crazy
01:06 rue_mohr frosties....
01:06 theBear pfft, flashlight
01:06 theBear count chocula !!!!
01:06 rue_mohr same here
01:06 theBear we don't have count chockula silly :)
01:06 theBear OR frankenberry !
01:06 rue_mohr rice bubbles = rice crispies
01:07 rue_mohr frosties = frosted flakes
01:07 rue_mohr you dont have rootbeer either
01:07 rue_mohr that other stuff you keep trying to say is, ISN'T
01:08 theBear you can find rootbeer, just noone likes it.... we got gingerbeer th o
01:09 theBear like dr pepper and jolt, they never sell enough so people stop importing
01:09 rue_mohr we could not find rootbeer anywhere
01:09 theBear i didn't say it was easy :)
01:12 katsmeow-afk i imagine you cannot ever fine real true rootbeer anyhow, all the marshes would be wrecked digging for the mallow roots
01:34 rrywolf flops onto katsmeow-afk for bed
01:35 ckkitten pets katsmeow-
01:35 hackkitten sleep well, furrywolf :3
01:35 furrywolf GuShH: no, you can only pump a small dribble of oil, or oil mist. any more usually causes slugging, which is very bad.
01:36 rue_bed http://xkcd.com/540/
01:36 rue_bed the binary in the corner says "base 2"
01:39 rrywolf pets katsmeow-afk then curls back up on her for s
07:42 anannie does anyone over here simulate their designs in solid works before building?
07:51 Triffid_Hunter anannie: I've done a couple of mine in openscad, can't afford solidworks
07:51 anannie Triffid_Hunter: Ah neither can I... but I still wanted to learn it and I'm trying to get my hands on a good source to learn from
07:53 anannie all of them seem to be plugging for courses or the like... I really want to learn how to do simulations for structural strength in the system, but the sources I've found so far don't look too promising
07:55 anannie I'm wondering if anyone had any recommendations? (it's always smarter to ask for recommendations before going through 50 pages of Google results)
07:57 theBear it's always smarter to check the first 2 pages first incase you look foolish <grin> but on this subject, i do not know if that is the case :)
07:58 theBear stuff like solidworks and THOROUGH design in general is good for complex and commercial kinda projects, but often overkill for the kinda thing many of us do at home from day to day
07:58 theBear that's what i say
07:58 theBear i also find cad is increasingly useful/efficient in general the more often you use it
08:00 anannie Yeah... well I think it's always smarter to ask in case you spend 30 hours doing research. I'm going through their online help system but what I really wanted was a set of best practices and cool hacks from the perspective of a hobbyist that I could use. Something someone would write as a nice blog post, so it made sense to ask.
08:01 theBear take my long sentence i say, i feel it pretty much sums things up
08:02 theBear and that last one... i use cad every few years for this or that, and every time it takes me a g ood proportion of the actual cad/working time just to get comfortable and efficient operating the software again... especially in 3d and/or solidworks kinda land
08:02 anannie Actually I want to do something really specific, I want to try and learn how to build something rigid which can survive in a variety of situations without resolving to just bulking it up. I want to answer questions like, okay if I drill holes in pattern and shape XYZ to try and create a honey comb kind of thing of thickness Y how strong will it be?
08:02 theBear 2d cad is like riding a bike, you just can't forget
08:03 theBear anannie, ahh,in that case, i'd have to say solidworks or similar is best... unlike in real life, you can make your basic layout then do your various mods and quickly/easily compare
08:04 anannie yup
08:04 anannie I don't know electronics... neither do I know how to code and it will take me a long time to learn... I just that that this was a cool thing I could do that actually came up with a practical result
08:05 theBear gotta do something with yer spare time :)
08:05 anannie :D
08:06 anannie hopefully soon I'll know a lot more and I'll be able to build something neat. I really want to do navigation
08:07 theBear most of it is in the head, the practical stuff can be learned... if you can understand how a computer might navigate, you got a damned good start
08:08 anannie I tried to do some stuff back when I was25
08:08 anannie * 15
08:08 anannie (not 25! I'm 20 lol)
08:08 theBear hehe
08:09 anannie but I'm wondering if there's a better way than putting beacons or just putting a tachymeter on a wheel and dragging it along the ground
08:11 theBear there's lots of ways, the best way(s) for a given application will depend on your requirements... best to understand the various systems, at least the common ones (tach on ground (several methods, not all physical), same on drive wheels/whatever in various methods, beacons (ir, radio, audio etc), maybe various styles of distance ranging etc etc etc etc
08:11 theBear then decide which are best for a given application
08:14 anannie I wanted to figure out something that was good enough for 90% of scenarios by combining a few of the above. There's this recent startup that uses small variations in the magnetic field that are cancelled out as noise in digital compasses to do navigation... I wonder if there's a way to combine a few techniques with computer vision to figure out where the machine is and create detailed visual maps of environments... It's crazy, but I think if
08:14 anannie I make something like that then I'll learn a lot of things. I want to teach myself mechanical engineering and then move from there
08:19 theBear there's a bunch of ways.. among other things you might wanna look up PID concepts/control.. err, product integral derivitive ? the last 2 words are right
08:20 anannie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
08:21 theBear yep, that one
08:21 anannie yeah I've tried building something like that, but I just want to make my own thing - I know it sounds crazy, but I get a lot of kick out of this
08:21 theBear that's more about the output side than the input, but same kinda concepts
08:21 annie is foolish and naive enough to think that she could come up with a just right solution that is actually
08:21 theBear heh, we ain't hanging around here 'cos we don't get a kick out of this stuff
08:24 anannie :SS
08:24 anannie :D
08:24 anannie sorry keyboard fail lol
08:24 theBear heh
08:30 anannie theBear: So what are you building?
08:31 theBear i'm looking for work... i was temporarily 'crippled' last year or so... no money for real robots, tho i have been experimenting with magnetic stirrers and cctv/ip and a few little things that i haven't needed new parts/money for :)
08:32 theBear completely against the impatience and practicality of rue, my next 'robot' will most likely be a 2 wheel balancer with some kind of navigation or other, mostly for novely... i like things that teeter on the edge of balance
08:32 anannie Okay, what are your skills? Maybe I can help?
08:33 theBear only started looking at ads today, applying to stuff tomorrow, but generally i'm in .au, west side at LEAST until i've got some walking around money behind me again, i suppose i specialise in audio electronics, repair and design, accoustic and audio engineering and everything related to them, last few years i've been mostly fixing disco lights and smoke machines... suppose as far as this country goes i also specialise in small scale micro r+d and
08:33 theBear solutions
08:34 theBear i'm not worried, but at the same time i don't like the whole job-search thing, so if ya know anything applicable :)
08:34 theBear i can program most languages, but years out of practice at most too... master of all soldering and small mechanical related things
08:35 anannie http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4184755
08:35 theBear also good at most building related stuff specialising in traditional (work/approach wise) woodwork, especially hardwood floors and double hung/vintage windows and door hanging
08:36 theBear but i'm not really physically fit for that anymore... the year of cripple was caused by a birth defect in my back finally being broken by too much physical work
08:38 theBear hmm... nice list, but kinda the wrong sides of the world as far as i got thru it
08:38 anannie search for Remote
08:38 theBear i've got a soft-shortlist of about 20 or 30 local jobs to apply tomorrow, and more than qualified/suitable/all desirables met for 2/3rds of them
08:39 theBear ahh, i see
08:39 anannie Well you're a smart guy... I'm sure that some of it won't satisfy your intellectual curiosity
08:40 theBear i wonder how i'd do at remote work tho... i'm fine working on my own, but i've always had a problem with working from home, something about seperating relaxation time and work time, apparently a lot of people find it hard to do both in a given physical environment
08:40 anannie Well I work from home and one thing you can always do is go to a café and work
08:40 theBear maybe, most of the stuff i've found so far is tech, between repairs and above-help-desk support positions, r+d and testing and maintenance kinda stuff
08:41 theBear anannie, hmm.. good point, and at this age and experience, any job i DO get really should be able to pay for a few coffees and a breakfast each day :)
08:41 anannie well you could always go into a better position
08:41 anannie Learn how to code, get into a startup, try to do everything
08:41 theBear heh, i've been in the 'entertainment' industry more or less my entire professional career since before i left school, i don't think you can find a worse position, at least for this kind of work
08:41 anannie help as it grows
08:42 theBear i've started up things myself, and managed them for others, i don't like that, i'm best at being given goals, and achieving them, primarily in a technical capacity
08:42 anannie pick the startup carefully... if the founders are determined then work hard with them even if it's about to collapse
08:42 anannie ah
08:42 theBear and i couldn't even consider computer related stuff again unless it was guaranteed 100% no microsoft
08:42 theBear oh, sidenote, i'm about 10 years older than you and started component level electronic repairs at 17 :)
08:43 anannie okay look
08:43 anannie Learn Ruby, Ror, Python, Django and that entire stack
08:44 anannie build a rapport and a reputation while getting a job for a company slinging code...
08:44 theBear hehe, i've heard of 2 of those, pretty good (tho outta practice) at one
08:44 anannie and then move up the latter
08:44 anannie Awesome
08:44 theBear right now i'm more worried about food and stuff.. the money you get while temporarily crippled here is ALMOST enough to survive on, but i gotta get a little more to be able to 'move up' in a series way...
08:45 anannie build a few projects in that (maybe expose one of your machines via a webstack to an app that controls it) and then move up
08:45 theBear i'm not worried tho, this whole job shortage thing is a myth
08:45 anannie yup
08:45 anannie oh and network
08:45 theBear i'm quite fond of php/mysql stuff these days, tho with my lack or recent practice, i can't help but feel i've got more to give in electronic/hardware related fields than programming... then again, i see what modern programmers do and often, it's not real good :)
08:46 theBear i think learning to program back in the dark ages was a good prep for a lot of concepts people that learned in modern days of excess cpu power and multi user os's never get
08:46 anannie you'd make an awesome coder
08:46 anannie just build a few projects
08:47 anannie and move on
08:47 anannie if you like building things then it should be almost therepeutic
08:47 anannie I'm honestly telling you that it isn't a waste
08:47 theBear maybe, the corporate world of coding is kinda, i don't know it well... and surely if i highten my electronic engineering skills and profile/experience i can make decent money like that
08:47 anannie and well software doesn't take any money
08:47 anannie Yup
08:47 anannie You can xD
08:48 anannie and with good contacts in said field you can get a 9 to 5 job with specific objectives and a lot of money
08:48 theBear it's true, but i can't learn 2 new languages/api/functioney packages in a week, i can walk straight back into electronics related, and now i got a licence and a car... seems there's a lotta on-site tech work around here at the moment
08:49 anannie how about a stop gap job?
08:49 theBear i can't contract.. it's like when i was a builder, i'm just not business oriented enough, i REALLY excel being employed and having the whole finding work thing taken care of
08:49 anannie don't think of it as a permanent position but a stepping stone kind of gig?
08:49 theBear stop gap is on the cards, but it can't be physical, and i'm not good with customers unless in small doses, so i may as well find something technical that i'm already comfortable with
08:49 anannie I know a few people who would kill to have someone like you
08:49 anannie Yes
08:50 theBear with a tiny bit of luck, i can 150% my old pay for a similar job, just in an industry that techs are more respected/valued
08:51 theBear so what's a django ?
08:51 anannie https://www.djangoproject.com/
08:52 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, now I'm gonna be looking for meaning in any xkcd binary I find
08:52 theBear hmmm... i could like that if it lives up to the initial description... hot damn css changed my world a few years back... finally webpages started to be practical to program dynamically
08:56 anannie well it should
08:56 anannie http://www.tornadoweb.org/
08:57 theBear hmmm.. programming eh ? i'll keep it in mind
08:58 anannie I want to learn how to do programming... (I don't know any)
08:58 anannie but I have issues with sitting down and doing it. This project is my way to get back into it
08:59 theBear mmm.. programming without a goal gets nowhere
08:59 anannie well I always have goals
08:59 anannie there lots of things I want to build
09:00 anannie but then again getting there requires stability that I don't have, hopefully if I start small I will get there
09:00 theBear if you wanna make something, and it involves programming, chances are you'll get it done... it's a good approach
09:01 anannie yup
09:01 anannie after I build this machine (with the most optimum strength to weight ratio :p) I'll try to hook it up using arduino and control it through a web app
09:02 rue_mohr theBear, what I dont like about most of the new web programming stuff is that most things require including a HEAP of 'compressed' javascript
09:03 rue_mohr have you ever looked at the amount of javascript on gooogles initial search page?
09:03 anannie hi rue_mohr
09:03 rue_mohr since when is it ok to need to include 1M of javascript text in a webpage?
09:03 rue_mohr anannie, hi
09:04 anannie rue_mohr: Since Google decided to go "social"
09:04 rue_mohr but anyone who has a site that does almost anything even basic has one of these javascript libraries
09:05 theBear rue_mohr, i wouldn't know about that, i know google is a horrible mess now, last i did 'ajax' kinda stuff i just used simple javascript to capture 'actions' and trigger php at the other end to do the real work on anything not dead simple
09:05 rue_mohr clientWidth+j);var l=Math.min(304,l),C=f+o,K=q("gbqfbw");K&&(K.style.display="",C+=K.clientWidth+2*Oa);f=g-C;var Z=q(
09:05 anannie Well I actually spend my working time making arguments about this and well it turns out that these fancy libraries such as jQuery makes the entire UI bit easier and slick to code
09:05 theBear yeah see, my whole programming philosophy doesn't allow anything that ugly :)
09:06 anannie theBear: You had me at ugly :D
09:06 rue_mohr were talking a LOT of that
09:06 theBear lol
09:06 rue_mohr all the libraries are like that
09:06 theBear you gotta remember with libs and things, to consider that simpler code MAY NOT mean more efficiency overall...
09:06 rue_mohr a){var b=new e.SU;b.initialize(a());e.vB=b;b=(b=!!(0,_.lc)(e,e.W,a()))||!!(0,_.lc)(e,e.M,a());b||(e.B.length=0);return b};_.lc=func
09:06 theBear stop that !
09:07 rue_mohr including stuff like that, just the idea, makes my skin crawl
09:08 anannie rue_mohr: It looks like a crude attempt to translate ancient egyptian into roman charecters
09:08 anannie or maybe incan?
09:08 anannie either way I can't tell
09:09 rue_mohr hahah I cant pastebin it, "Length of code is not allowed to exceed 89kB"
09:09 rue_mohr this is the, moderatly blank, google home page!
09:10 anannie rue_mohr, theBear : I guess when you have a strict budget and you need to make a slick product... Then well it's tempting to try this out
09:11 rue_mohr its over 500k....
09:11 rue_mohr so pastebin wont take it...
09:12 rue_mohr nowonder pages are so slow
09:12 rue_mohr have to wait for all the javascript to download
09:12 anannie rue_mohr: ever tried duckduckgo?
09:12 rue_mohr I'm gradually seeing the light
09:13 anannie rue_mohr: :D
09:13 rue_mohr as a search engine google frustrates me with results that contain 0% of the search terms I provided
09:13 rue_mohr even when I repeat the important ones like 10 times
09:14 anannie that's interesting... What are you searching for?
09:14 theBear rue_mohr, yeah, it's really become increasingly useless of late
09:14 rue_mohr quite a number of the searches I do fall inot the 0% thing
09:15 rue_mohr I cant find you a good one now, I'm late for work
09:15 rue_mohr after my alarm clock, the cat didn't insist I get up :)
09:15 theBear grrr ! there's gotta be some kinda interference or standing wave or something, it's just impossible the way vodafone signal goes from good to NOTHING in this room
09:15 rue_mohr he just went back to sleep
09:16 anannie rue_mohr: I hope you have a wonderful day at work
09:16 rue_mohr theBear, maybe its a keyhole beam among shadows
09:16 theBear wtf? just send the msg !
09:16 anannie theBear: or perhaps there's a diffraction pattern?
09:16 theBear rue_mohr, maybe vfone in a metro area 5 mins from the cbd should be better than that !
09:17 rue_mohr theBear, oh not wifi then :)
09:17 theBear i'm truly cursed with bedrooms and offices and vfone reception....
09:17 rue_mohr there is a spot in the dead middle of my livingroom, 3 feet from the window that is the ONLY area you can get cell reception
09:17 rue_mohr its about 1 cubic foot big
09:18 rue_mohr the only other reception is 60' up a tree in the back yard
09:19 theBear my bedroom/offices over the years are consistantly like that inside, but PERFECT outside
09:19 theBear FFS !!!?!?!??!!
09:19 theBear i can't send a simple half length sms !
09:19 rue_mohr ok, so
09:19 rue_mohr HOW MANY of your computers have all their lids on?
09:19 theBear heh, surprisingly all of them :)
09:20 rue_mohr oh, i'm about 50/50 here
09:20 theBear got a oil heater (electric) next to me, but that should be cool
09:20 theBear heh, i used to be way past 50/50, but as i mature i find less need to mess around inside pcs :)
09:20 rue_mohr oh you silly ozies are in winter
09:20 theBear or i've messed around so much that they need a lid to keep the insides safe :)
09:21 rue_mohr I have a power supply fan clicking in this machine... so I'm working that out
09:21 theBear got a nice app finally setup on the fone a couple days ago, POSTs gps location/accuracy and a bunch of other stuff to MY webserver/page every so often, now i just gotta workout a sensible way to apply that to a map pref. without google apis
09:22 rue_mohr dosn't that eat up battery pretty good?
09:22 theBear if i set it to maybe 10 mins reporting and it's in a good coverage (quick to gps locate) area it doesn't seem to use much
09:23 theBear i tend to optimise most things, but leave 'normal' gps and other services on anyway, phone lasts for more than 20 hours, so i never worry
09:23 theBear probably a lot more
09:23 eBear looks at the power whatsit estim
09:23 theBear 40 hrs with wifi and 2g/3g and gps all on, assuming conservative screen usage
09:24 theBear and the nice power whatsit has been observing my usage for several weeks at least, it's getting to know me well
09:24 theBear got single-click from homescreen to realtime vidcams at my place/here too :) awesome
09:25 rue_mohr I need a teleprescence robot here
09:25 theBear what do they do ? patch phonecalls for you ?
09:26 rue_mohr every so often I want to do something at the house when I'm away
09:27 theBear something gotta be broken somewhere... i literally cannot send an sms ! that time the bars didn't even disappear
09:40 theBear something GOTTA be broken, i cannot for the life of me get an sms out of this house !
09:41 theBear hmmm... the clock service number sounds weird too... wtf is wrong with vfone today ?
11:51 furrywolf hrmm, you fix audio gear, eh? have a set of output transistors for my big kenwood mono amps? :P
11:53 furrywolf they're apparantly very special transistors... rather than being made from silicon, they're made from purified unobtanium.
11:55 rrywolf checks under the furniture until finding a katsmeow-afk, and p
11:57 katsmeow-afk mouw?
11:58 katsmeow-afk i was just going outside to put pump in creek
12:00 katsmeow-afk finding exact replacements for the Kenwood may be impossible, even transistors with the same part numbers from 1970 are not made the same way any more
12:01 rrywolf wraps katsmeow-afk in bubblewrap before she heads down to the c
12:01 katsmeow-afk best approach, imo, is to fit the voltage specs, then aim a lil higher on speed and gain than the old ones
12:01 katsmeow-afk not a lot higher, don't put in darlingtons where they weren't darlingtons
12:02 katsmeow-afk don't go way higher on sped, you may get an oscillator
12:02 furrywolf apparantly they tend to oscillate randomly even stock, and are even more prone to it once you replace anything...
12:02 katsmeow-afk matching capacitances on the new parts will be a carp shoot
12:02 katsmeow-afk oh
12:03 katsmeow-afk so they were designed to drive 8ohm resistances, not speakers?
12:03 furrywolf they're rated to 200khz or something equally idiotic.
12:04 furrywolf sec, I'll go grab the model number off them.
12:04 katsmeow-afk that's good, you get overlapping harmonics and the edges line up for very high freqs
12:04 katsmeow-afk altho, chances are they lied too
12:05 furrywolf l-07m
12:05 katsmeow-afk what?
12:05 katsmeow-afk gimme all the numbers on the part
12:05 furrywolf that's the model of the amp, not the part.
12:06 katsmeow-afk i'm not replacing the entire amp
12:06 furrywolf this is just a random passing though (thebear mentioned he fixed audio), not my plan for the day. :)
12:06 furrywolf thought
12:07 katsmeow-afk iirc, the MJ15024/25 family was designed to be a general purpose dropin replacement for most high powered outputs, and Sanken makes a good high powered series too
12:08 furrywolf yeah, I think I've seen those listed as a replacement.
12:08 furrywolf it needs six of them. :(
12:08 katsmeow-afk Sankens also come as modified TO-3P , so for new designs you do not need to drill holes for the base-emitter connections
12:09 theBear watching a movie getting ready for bed, but basically what kats said... in reality, you never find output or driver transistors (original p/n at least) for 70's transistor amps
12:09 katsmeow-afk for under 100v, if you need higher gain, the MJ11015/16 are some kinda powerful beasts, you may never blow them
12:09 theBear 15003/4 and 15023/4 (15022/3?) are and were common, just check they aren't too low gain
12:10 theBear and it's under 100v, probly 40-50 +-
12:10 katsmeow-afk mind the soa curves too
12:10 theBear without the model/looking, i'd have to say push pull or push pull all in npn, but that should be obvious
12:10 katsmeow-afk there's some high voltage high current transistors out tehre with really small soa
12:11 furrywolf http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/socalsam/L-07M1.jpg
12:11 katsmeow-afk ooo,, crappy install!
12:11 theBear they're just jap numbers, easy to lookup and should be easy to match
12:12 katsmeow-afk those shouldn't be hard to find
12:12 theBear it's a 70's hifi amp, that's an unusually good output device mounting, and a very typical dodgy edge-connected pcb :)
12:12 furrywolf I think those are already replaced. heh.
12:12 furrywolf doesn't sound familiar.
12:12 katsmeow-afk it's a loooooooooooooooooooong way from the transistor to the fins, bear
12:12 katsmeow-afk it's a bad layout for power dissipation
12:12 theBear solder should make it obvious, but if they worked as a substitute, stick with 'em, cos most of those amps got weird output p/ns
12:12 furrywolf katsmeow-afk: the aluminum is THICK.
12:13 theBear katsmeow-afk, yeah, but that's probly only a 30-50w amp
12:13 katsmeow-afk thick = inertia, not dissipation
12:13 theBear look how small the electros are
12:13 furrywolf theBear: that's not my amp, just a random picture I found online.
12:13 theBear unless god forbid, they're coupling caps for the output :)
12:13 katsmeow-afk it's not your amp? then why are we lookign at it?
12:13 furrywolf theBear: no, it's a lot of watts.
12:13 eBear doesn't much care for cap coupled power ou
12:13 theBear 70's kenwood ? lotta watts ? that doesn't sound right
12:14 theBear oh mono, 100@8 maybe
12:14 furrywolf big mono blocks, weighing quite a bit.
12:14 furrywolf 150W RMS at .007% THD
12:14 furrywolf into 8 ohms
12:14 theBear no shit ? not bad
12:15 furrywolf DC-200khz.
12:15 theBear hehe, yeah, that's just silly
12:15 furrywolf 120db s/n, .002% thd at 1khz,...
12:15 katsmeow-afk 150w rms,, drawing ~1amp at 120vac,, heck, my Sansui would make the lites blink
12:16 furrywolf 300w into 4 ohms.
12:16 theBear anyway, a bears gotta sleep... gonner apply for a bunch of jobs tomorrow i guess
12:16 furrywolf input power 670w...
12:16 katsmeow-afk best lucks, bear
12:16 furrywolf cyas
12:16 theBear :)
12:17 katsmeow-afk i need to go to the creek, pump and pipe in paw
12:17 katsmeow-afk bbl
12:17 furrywolf I have two of these amps, one has a blown logic fuse, looks like a slow blow, the other has a very, very blown 20A fuse stuck in the main line fuse holder.
12:18 furrywolf a slow failure, not a slow-blow fuse. wire gently melted and fell, not vaporized.
12:21 furrywolf right now my living room is only 80W/channel at 8 ohms. :)
14:13 furrywolf this dewalt radio has distinctly unimpressive output power.
14:14 furrywolf it takes a battery that can happily put out 300W... so they put in a 5W amp.
14:14 furrywolf it clips way, way too easily.
14:17 furrywolf also, bleh, the battery life of my mp3 player is down to ~3 minutes.
14:47 ShH pictures a massive CIA facility full of servers, roaring, and in the center a column, with a giant blinking
14:47 GuShH Developed in Java.
14:53 Skwint I didn't know you could make LEDs in java
14:57 GuShH Skwint: If you don't get it you may as well go to sleep.
14:58 GuShH Unless you've got RTS
14:58 Skwint Real Time Strategy?
14:58 GuShH (Restless Tail Syndrome)
14:58 GuShH Gotta appeal to the cats here.
14:58 Skwint oh, I dunno about that. I still haven't caught it.
14:59 GuShH My cat seems to have it
14:59 GuShH her tail is always moving around
16:30 duckinator Found a bunch of 5 1/4" floppies in my basement. Appears to all be DOS software: http://imgur.com/a/zgfeF
16:31 Tom_itx i still have a pile of em
16:31 Tom_itx tossed a bunch out
16:31 Tom_itx it took 30 just for novell
16:34 duckinator Tom_itx: i was actually looking for the ones that went with the C64 we used to have, but apparently they got tossed out with it when it broke. Found these, which are apparently actually a bit older, instead. Bought an old IBM 5.25" drive on ebay, should be here in a week or so, so I can see what exactly they all are
16:35 GuShH I should take a picture of my floppies...
16:35 GuShH they're taking up a lot of space
16:36 GuShH and that's just half of them, the other half got canned already.
16:36 GuShH about 500 remain
16:37 duckinator hah :)
16:37 GuShH less than half are games
16:37 GuShH I keep them because I still have my 286
16:38 Tom_itx yay for ms packman
16:39 duckinator I think I'm going to set up my old Pentium 3 (doesn't even have a HDD right now) with DOS and see how well it works. I expect fun timing issues to sort out.
16:40 GuShH haha yeah
16:40 GuShH no such issues with the 286, in fact can't run most of the cool games with it... need 386
16:42 duckinator I'm not sure what a Pentium 3 is considered. 700Mhz Pentium 3 Coppermine, iirc.
16:44 GuShH > 686 :p
16:45 GuShH duckinator: I had one of those, can't find it anymore after I moved...
16:45 GuShH it's either in a box, or got stolen.
16:45 GuShH not sure who would steal that.
16:45 ShH misse
16:45 duckinator 686? really? hmm...
16:46 duckinator wikipedia says it goes i486 -> P5 -> P6, and the Pentium 3 is a P6. I guess so.
16:48 GuShH duckinator: wikipedia can suck it
16:48 GuShH and > is more-than operator.
16:48 tsmeow-afk has/has a 80586
16:48 GuShH duckinator: please tell katsmeow-afk to grow up and quit ignoring me :p
16:48 ShH is off to play some more with his airb
16:49 katsmeow-afk before that a 386DX-40
16:50 duckinator neat :)
16:50 katsmeow-afk yeas, i didn't think very highly of the wintel platform till i got that 368DX-40 , before that i usually used the C64
16:51 katsmeow-afk err, 386
16:51 katsmeow-afk the 8086-8 and the 286-12 were real crashy
16:52 katsmeow-afk the 386DX-40 was zippy and stable
16:53 katsmeow-afk before the 386, it didn't much matter what size the harddrives were, the thing would crash running any version of windows if accessing the hd
16:53 katsmeow-afk after the 386, i wanted bigger hds
19:01 rue_mohr my 486dx-100 was faster than most of the early pentiums
22:22 furrywolf my cyrix 6x86 _fucking sucked_. much slower than a pentium...
22:23 theBear yeah, they did suck )
22:23 theBear :)
22:24 theBear hehe, i had a FULL size siemens tower for that thing... ahh the decadence of the 90s
22:24 theBear was about a meter tall :)
22:25 furrywolf heh
22:25 furrywolf playing mp3s used about 80% cpu on the 6x86.
22:26 theBear at least it played mp3s ... the 486dx4-100's didn't much care for that :)
22:27 furrywolf they did mp3 fine.
22:27 furrywolf I played mp3s off a 486. heh.
22:28 theBear yeah, but did you try to use a modem at the same time ? :)
22:28 furrywolf nope
22:29 theBear yeah, wasn't a lotta time for interrupts and ppp decoding :)
22:30 katsmeow-afk my water cutoff for the ro is labled in-1 out-2 3 4,, not even if in-1 is the clean or dirty water
22:31 katsmeow-afk or if 3 or 4 is in or out
22:31 theBear what's a ro ?
22:31 katsmeow-afk reverse osmosis
22:32 katsmeow-afk Original ASV lasted 4 years, next two only lasted 5 months each. The Large Diaphragm failed in the same place on both. The symptoms I observed are very high TDS as the raw water leaks to the treated side through the valve.
22:32 katsmeow-afk oh that's just great
22:33 furrywolf heh. put a tds meter on the output, watch it?
22:34 katsmeow-afk and if the tds alerts, i know the whole clean water system is contaminated?
22:35 furrywolf yep
22:35 furrywolf heh
22:36 furrywolf you could just use a pressure switch and solenoid valve... that'd isolate the two nicely.
22:36 katsmeow-afk symptoms of valve failure: vomiting and explosive diarhea
22:36 katsmeow-afk what about failure in the booster pump?
22:37 furrywolf you shouldn't be relying on the ro alone to remove bacteria... it should be treated through a UV unit first.
22:37 katsmeow-afk will that cause me to be sick too?
22:37 furrywolf dunno, I've never taken either of them apart. I don't know how well isolated they are.
22:37 katsmeow-afk right, i'll just stop drinking water
22:38 theBear if the water is that bad those purifier tablets would probably help a lot
22:39 theBear and tbh, if you've got beer, you can survive without water for very long periods
22:39 katsmeow-afk purifier tablets are chlorine and will kill the RO filter
22:39 theBear i was thinking more in case of emergency, like when it isn't working, of course, you probly gotta get sick to know that :(
22:40 furrywolf RO units are _not_ supposed to be used for removing bacteria... they're not gauranteed to do it, and may get fouled.
22:40 theBear maybe you can get a animal to help... is it dogs that won't drink naturally poisoned water ?
22:41 katsmeow-afk furry is anything better than drinking the raw surface creek water the animals play in?
22:42 furrywolf yes. RO is better than nothing, UV is better than nothing, UV+RO is pretty good...
22:43 katsmeow-afk and regarding the UV unit, how do i know when the water has been in the unit long enough to allow it to pass on to the RO unit?
22:43 theBear dunno, but once you work it out, it shouldn't change much :)
22:44 furrywolf the only system I've worked on with a cycled UV unit, used a one minute timer relay to give the bulb time to warm up.
22:45 furrywolf and to treat the water in the unit
22:45 katsmeow-afk so, you have a 30gal tank with a uv lamp inside it?
22:46 theBear hmmm... water blocks uv reasonably doesn't it ? might need some kinda special exposure-area with regulated depth ?
22:46 furrywolf they make very small uv units.
22:49 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-5-GPM-UV-sterilizer-water-purifier-water-filter-/160778614765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256f26f7ed
22:51 katsmeow-afk these are over $100 each
22:52 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultraviolet-UV-Filter-Clarifier-Pond-Fish-Tank-Green-Water-Sterilizer-9W-UV-Lamp-/160841042735?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2572df8b2f
22:53 furrywolf hrmm, that one can't handle any pressure.
23:06 rrywolf skritches katsmeow-afk then curls up on her and y
23:06 tsmeow-afk is getting real frustrated at the water situa
23:07 furrywolf join the club... I still don't have indoor plumbing!
23:08 furrywolf I've been trying to work on the water heater closet area for two weeks, but it just keeps on fucking raining, and I can't do outside projects, or cut a big hole in the side of the house.
23:11 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reverse-osmosis-drinking-water-UV-Ultraviolet-Light-/230665657991
23:13 furrywolf I wonder if you can make an LED one that doesn't need a new lamp every year...
23:15 katsmeow-afk if it was possible, wouldn't people be making them already?
23:16 furrywolf dunno
23:16 furrywolf manufacturers like selling things that need frequent replacement parts.
23:17 furrywolf inkjet cartridges are STILL $20-$50 retail, for example. I don't know how they get away with it...
23:18 GuShH furrywolf: epson is changing.
23:18 GuShH they have a refillable printer
23:18 GuShH alas not cheap
23:18 katsmeow-afk looking at 3w uv led on ebay, they are all the wrong wavelength
23:18 katsmeow-afk uv-c is 200-265nm
23:18 GuShH it's their version of currently available kits
23:18 katsmeow-afk all ebays are 400nm
23:19 furrywolf I know they make LED-based uv sterilizers for contact lenses, since I've seen them for sale. whether they work or not, I have no idea.
23:22 katsmeow-afk this one claims 253nm uv-c : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Internal-Fish-Tank-Aquarium-UV-Sterilizer-Light-Lamp-3w-LED-8-5inch-/270810888387
23:42 katsmeow-afk In case you don�t know what TDS creep is, it is defined as follows:
23:42 katsmeow-afk �The natural diffusion of TDS ions through the membrane from the feed side to the permeate side when the feed pressure is shut off (i.e., when the tank is full). This effect results in lowered water quality.� - A Practical Application Manual for Residential, Point of Use Reverse Osmosis Systems by Robert Slovak
23:44 furrywolf and the solution is...?
23:44 katsmeow-afk dunno
23:44 furrywolf heh
23:45 katsmeow-afk page didn't say, i read it 4x