#robotics Logs

Jul 10 2012

00:04 katsmeow-afk oops
00:04 e_mohr stretches and wonders when articles will start arriving in the
00:05 tsmeow-afk microprints a pdf in binary dots with a reprap and snailmails it to
00:07 e_mohr employs space/time dilation to get it sooner in a larger ver
00:07 katsmeow-afk you can't do that, bear didn't eat my breakfast
00:08 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, how well stuck down are 3d printed things? would they stick upside down to a table?
00:09 rue_mohr I figured out how to deal with nonconsistant supply material, but it comes with a few... challanges
00:11 furrywolf bbl, wolfy bedtime
00:11 katsmeow-afk i think i;ll,, crap, brain shut off
00:13 tsmeow-afk remembers the olden daze when reprap made things by shining a UV laser into a pot of goo ,, like 10 yrs
00:38 rue_mohr the resin is expensive
00:38 rue_mohr these days they use projectors
00:39 tsmeow-afk
00:41 rue_bed fan needs a bearing overhaul again
00:46 katsmeow-afk why are my eyes itchy before i faceplant?
01:03 tsmeow-afk waves gn
02:33 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: yes, printers work upside down and in zero G
02:33 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: not so great sideways due to the asymmetrical load on the X and Y motors though
08:57 rue_mohr so the weight of most objects would pull them off an upside down table
08:58 Skwint that sentance sounds strange out of context
08:58 Skwint but I must confess I can't think of a good context for it either :p
09:01 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: you can control the amount of adhesion by small changes in the distance between nozzle and bed
09:01 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: there have been numerous cases of parts stuck on hard enough to break chunks of glass off the bed when the operator finally resorts to trying to get them off with a hammer
09:01 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, http://www.timefracture.org/D16.html someone having fun
09:02 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: so I'm absolutely certain that you can get sufficient adhesion to print upside down if you so wish :)
09:14 rue_mohr hmm
09:31 furrywolf "The proposed Shweeb transit network relies on recumbent bicycle technology to power pods suspended from monorails. According to Shweeb Monorail Technology, the intent of their proposal is to to "create a solution which provided the user with the same flexibility and comfort offered by the car"
09:31 furrywolf so... pedalling yourself in a small hanging pod on a fixed track is obviously just as flexible and comfortable as a car!
09:32 rue_mohr I cant see it working in america or italy
09:33 rue_mohr but countries where people are fit and not lazy it'll work great
09:33 furrywolf I can't see pedalling yourself in a small pod on a fixed track to be even comparable to the flexibility nor comfort of a car. this makes me think they have failed their design goals most spectacularly.
09:34 rue_mohr environmentally friendly and inexpensivly implemented
09:34 furrywolf http://shweeb.com/ do those look remotely comfortable or flexible? they only follow the track, have no cargo capabilities, and look distinctly uncomfortable.
09:35 rue_mohr angle looks a bit out
09:35 rue_mohr but you could mentally see those people jogging anyhow
09:37 furrywolf "Should the rider in front refuse to pedal, the extra effort required by the rider(s) behind is minimal due to the low rolling resistance and single aero-pressure point of the peloton."
09:37 furrywolf lol
09:38 furrywolf you can't pass people, even if they're just sitting there. they recommend you instead push them along, and presumably hope they don't decide to put on the brakes.
09:40 Skwint I think you could make it significantly more flexible
09:40 Skwint by using a technology called a bike
09:43 furrywolf "It is not possible to derail, fall out or be involved in a dangerous collision." oh! just like how certain historical ships have been unsinkable? :)
09:44 theBear hehe
09:45 furrywolf declaring that accidents are impossible means they didn't plan for them.
09:46 furrywolf and encouraging others to push lazy pedallers will mean half the riders will be leeches.
09:46 theBear pfft, use p2p as a reference, it will be more than half :)
09:47 Skwint and then the 3 people who actually do peddle will by bikes to get around those that don't
09:47 Skwint what you could do it make it pay people for the effort they put in
09:47 furrywolf lol
09:47 Skwint then it could be like a taxi driver job to peddle the transport system all day
09:48 furrywolf monitor the torque and rpm of the pedals, give a refund of the fare based on how much work you did?
09:48 Skwint yup
09:48 Skwint or even more than the fare, so other people who are freeloading effectively pay some of their fare to you
09:48 furrywolf lol
09:49 furrywolf and they'd need to be bigger to have some cargo room, which will make them heavier and slower...
09:49 Skwint some people would be fitter and have jobs they wouldn't otherwise have, and business men would get to work without sweating buckets in their suits and not have to feel guilty about not peddling
09:51 Skwint and lots of drunk people who don't want to spring for a taxi ride home from the pub could throw up in them and scrawl "R.B heart Jacky" on the windows
09:51 furrywolf lol
09:51 furrywolf yeah, I can imagine them quickly becoming quite unpleasant inside.
09:52 furrywolf "The standard commuter pod has space for a backpack/briefcase and a coat hanger for your jacket." so there's not enough room to actually do anything useful.
09:53 furrywolf "Just as tandem bicycles always travel faster than two single bicycles, two Shweebs travelling in a train always travel faster than either of them could travelling solo." funny, I've yet to ever see a tandem bicycle going over 5mph...
09:55 furrywolf "Disembarking riders are naturally accelerated onto the main line when it is clear and safe to do so. " uh-huh. until someone doesn't pay attention and merges right into the side of another pod...
09:56 furrywolf they claim there's an automatic system to prevent that, but the chances of it being perfect are roughly nil.
09:58 Skwint on the other hand, two plastic bubbles colliding sounds better than two trains colliding, and that happens too
09:58 Skwint not sure I feel like peddling a 4 hour train journey :/
09:59 Skwint should put the pods in tubes and blow them along with compressed air
09:59 Skwint then you could get really awkward crashes and spend days sorting it out
09:59 furrywolf lol
10:01 Skwint come on then, robotics people - how do we make a city wide MRT system that people like?
10:02 Skwint or don't we? Cause any country which can afford it already has cars everywhere
10:03 furrywolf element.style {
10:03 furrywolf opacity: 0.999999;
10:03 furrywolf }
10:04 furrywolf their css is as questionable as their pods...
10:04 Skwint that is rather odd
10:05 furrywolf http://shweeb.com/gallery/01/corner-swing.jpg can you imagine how much fun the staff will have trying to pry the average american out of that?
10:05 furrywolf crowbars.
10:06 theBear heh, good luck getting the average american into that
10:07 theBear i don't mind the look of the person that is in it tho
10:07 Skwint nice upskirt shot too
10:07 theBear sporty :)
10:10 furrywolf theBear: but if they do get in, they'll have an even harder time getting out...
10:10 furrywolf and, of course, you know those are the ones who won't pedal.
10:11 theBear heh yeah
11:25 furrywolf testing out this dewalt radio... I think my first project is going to be adding a cigarette lighter plug to the side of it. unfortunately, the largest spare dc-dc converter I have is 3A.
11:28 furrywolf I can't well run 18-24V to a cigarette lighter plug, so I need to step it down, but I only have one >3A converter, and it's in use. bleh.
11:31 furrywolf the guy with the broken inverters told me my offer wasn't even in the ballpark. I figured that'd be the response. oh well.
11:42 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-24V-to-DC-12V-8A-Step-down-Power-Module-High-Quality-04464-/130680030803?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6d230653 can that really be 8A?
11:42 furrywolf hrmm, come to think of it, I do have a 10A module... but it's linear.
13:18 sw0rdfish w00t!
13:18 sw0rdfish going out to see Prometheus
13:26 GuShH furrywolf: dewalt makes radios?? I thought bosch were the only ones crazy enough to do it, using the same power packs their tools use, plus they drop an inverter in it just for the hell of it.
13:27 GuShH what a wanky thing.
13:51 furrywolf dewalt also makes a radio that runs off the same batteries the tools use, and charges said batteries.
13:51 furrywolf got one for $5 at a yard sale saturday.
14:18 jardiamj Hi guys! can any of you give me an idea of how to build a rack and pinion steering AKA Ackerman drive?
14:18 jardiamj I have a stepper motor from an cd drive, and I already know how to control it with an arduino
14:19 jardiamj I was thinking that I could use that..
14:21 jardiamj it already has a worm gear on it, to go from circular to linear motion (positional)
14:22 GuShH furrywolf: the bosch one at least doesn't look like a kid designed it
14:22 GuShH but they're way too big.
14:27 furrywolf this is a dw911, according to the sticker on the bottom. it looks like they designed it to appeal to drunk construction workers.
14:29 KongfuPanda hi
14:30 GuShH lol
14:31 GuShH In theory you don't need a wanky specialized radio.
14:31 GuShH I've seen chinese radios buried in dirt working just fine, and you can hear them across the street too.
14:31 GuShH all highs no lows whatsoever on those things
14:31 furrywolf well, it has the nice feature of running off the same batteries the tools use, and doubling as a charger for said batteries.
14:31 GuShH bleh
14:32 furrywolf that said, I rarely plan to use it. I got it because it was $5, and I figure for $5 maybe it'll get used someday.
14:32 GuShH or it'll just take up space :p
14:33 furrywolf I certainly won't use it around the house, as my ~.6 m2 of cone area in the living room sounds much, much better than the crappy little speakers in it.
14:46 jardiamj I think I found what I was looking for here: http://www.beam-wiki.org/w/images/1/15/Ackermann_Steering_layout.GIF
14:50 furrywolf I've never designed precise ackerman steering, just random approximations.
14:55 jardiamj but I'm new to robotics, so I didn't really know what the designed was like...
14:55 jardiamj it's simple but not so obvious
14:56 furrywolf just wait until you actually start building things, and find out perfect might be worse, and anti-ackerman (where the outer wheel is sharper) can even be useful in some circumstances. :P
14:57 jardiamj I've taken the class about AI for Robotics at udacity.com, and want to try my PID controller in real life not a simulated one
14:57 jardiamj I'll see, this is all for fun after all
14:59 furrywolf for most small, slow things, you'll be fine no matter how it's done.
14:59 furrywolf when you start going fast, then a lot of other things come into play.
15:17 jardiamj understand, but now I have to figure out how to build it, because I don't think Rack and Pinion will be so easy with Ackerman drive because of the geometry it follows..
15:21 furrywolf it's not hard. you just have the rack in the middle, with two short links on the ends.
15:21 furrywolf most modern cars work this way
15:24 jardiamj like this picture furrywolf? http://www.rctek.com/technical/handling/ackerman_steering_principle.html
15:26 jardiamj will a stepper motor work to control the rack, or will be better a servo?
15:27 furrywolf which is better depends on your application. servos have a number of advantages, like being faster, not requiring power to hold them straight, and having built-in feedback.
15:28 jardiamj I understand, so a servo would be better then...
15:29 furrywolf yes
15:29 furrywolf meh, I need a chuck of aluminum, and don't have one handy.
15:30 furrywolf just look at how rack and pinion is implemented on a car.
15:31 furrywolf http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ldq5d9J7AIY/TzJb7vw1hLI/AAAAAAAACPI/2XNDQ3umTmw/s1600/ackerman-rack-&-pinion-steering.gif there you go. ackerman rack and pinion, in legos. lol
15:36 jardiamj thanks furrywolf, I'm sorry if I sound such a newbie, but I am... haha
15:37 jardiamj I'll get to work on the design...
15:48 furrywolf woot. this ebay peltier works well enough that even with a chunk of aluminum on the cold side, it takes less than 30 seconds to make ice and freeze water that touches it.
15:48 furrywolf hot heatsink is getting hot fast though... will need a fan.
15:48 furrywolf bbl, time for work.
15:49 furrywolf bah, cold side un-froze once hot side got too hot.
15:49 furrywolf bbl
17:34 biker hi
17:34 biker I got a question
17:34 biker if I wanna know the angule (degrees) in which somehing is, do I neet an accelerometer or a gyroscope?
17:34 biker or both?
17:50 Tom_itx inclinometer
18:10 GuShH biker: what Tom_itx said... or mechanical feedback but it depends on the actual case. you may even get away with a couple tilt switches.
18:11 sw0rdfish and I am BaCK!
18:11 GuShH biker: not knowing the answer to a question implies you may not fully know the problem aye.
18:11 sw0rdfish frickin Prometheus
18:11 sw0rdfish I blame it all on that ghey writer :(
18:11 ShH just realized what a big store chain is doing when they don't have the right change, they ask you if you want to "donate to a good cause"
18:12 GuShH sw0rdfish: no one missed you
18:12 sw0rdfish GuShH, I wouldn't have it any other way :)
18:12 biker GuShH, I am building a quadricopter
18:12 GuShH lame
18:13 biker so I need to know the inclination so I can take that info to a PID and balance the quad
18:16 GuShH you'd want both a gyro and an accelerometer in a quad
18:16 GuShH compass is often used, unless you use gps
18:16 GuShH they're even selling sensor arrays for fucking quad copters now. they sell kits in fact.
18:17 biker i dont want a kit
18:17 GuShH that's why they're lame now, everyones doing it.
18:17 GuShH I'm just saying it's actually cheaper than doing it yourself these days
18:17 biker GuShH, haha i dont think so
18:17 GuShH do the next best thing and innovate, build something that doesn't exist.
18:17 GuShH or be the kid next door who already has a quad.
18:17 biker the coolest oand cheapest ones ive seen are like 800 bucks
18:17 GuShH biker: check out the online chinese stores.
18:17 GuShH goodluckbuy.com for example.
18:18 GuShH I'm talking about the modules and parts they sell
18:18 GuShH and theres no cool in these things, the cool factor went away years ago.
18:18 GuShH I don't see the point other than spying on the neighbour's pool with a camera
18:18 GuShH but you may as well use a long pole.
18:18 GuShH after all both methods are obvious.
18:19 GuShH but one is free.
18:19 biker haha
18:19 GuShH theres no "flying" a quad either
18:19 biker im studying electronics engineer,., i want to do a quad so learn many stuff..
18:19 GuShH they pretty much fly themselves.
18:20 GuShH biker: I thought you were studying to learn.
18:20 ShH fr
18:20 biker yea, but you dont learn just sitting in class
18:20 GuShH biker: you should
18:20 biker you need to do some projects
18:20 GuShH it should be theorical and practical
18:20 biker exacly
18:20 GuShH that's why there's a lab
18:21 biker and im doing the practical stuff by building the quad
18:21 GuShH meh
18:21 biker GuShH, where are you from/
18:21 biker ?
18:21 GuShH you don't really have to explain yourself, I already have fun talking trash about quads.
18:21 GuShH and I better get changed, I want to play with my new airbrush
18:22 biker well im from mexico,., and here we dont have cool and big labs like in the states
18:23 biker i went to stufy abroad for one semester to austria, and the college over there even has a virtual reality laboratory
18:23 biker thats something we wont see here in some time..
18:23 GuShH Estoy en Argentina, no estaba comparando con US de todas maneras.
18:23 biker jaja
18:23 biker che boludo
18:23 GuShH Ademas te entiendo, aca es todo un desastre tambien -- si comparamos...
18:24 biker ya se =/
18:24 GuShH Los gringos no, no te van a entender. jaja
18:24 biker ahi en la uni de austria tienen un laboratorio bien chingon de realidades mixtas
18:24 GuShH "Pero como no tienen un scope de 20GHz en tu laboratorio??"
18:24 biker jajaja xD
18:24 biker ya se
18:24 biker :
18:24 biker :
18:24 biker :P:
18:25 biker GuShH, y por qu� no te gustan los quad?
18:25 GuShH Encima cuando cambian los equipos, lo viejo lo tiran.
18:25 GuShH No me llaman la atencion y me gusta molestar al respecto :P
18:25 biker jajaja :p
18:25 biker mamon xD
18:25 GuShH pero antes que nada mira los modulos en esas paginas porque hay cosas baratas.
18:26 biker pero es chino,., no se me desarma la segunda vez que lo use? :p
18:26 GuShH nah
18:27 GuShH pero antes de comprar un modulo en sparkfun por ejemplo, prueba ahi.
18:27 biker jaja
18:27 biker sparkfun rifa
18:27 biker pero bueno,., thx por la pagina :p
18:27 GuShH http://www.goodluckbuy.com/arduino-triple-axis-accelerometer-adxl345-sensor-board-module-1.html
18:27 biker quiero hacer un quad,., porke desde antes de ke fueran cool yo keria uno xD
18:27 GuShH http://www.goodluckbuy.com/mma7361-triple-axis-accelerometer-module-for-avr-pic-substitute-mma7260-.html
18:27 biker wacala arduino
18:28 GuShH http://www.goodluckbuy.com/gy-271-hmc5883l-module-compass-module-3-axis-sensor-.html
18:28 GuShH etc
18:28 GuShH some compass modules come with altimeter, etc.
18:28 GuShH yep arduino sucks.
18:29 GuShH http://www.goodluckbuy.com/gy-65-atmospheric-pressure-module-altimeter-bmp085-module-with-the-code.html
18:29 GuShH I can prove to you my hatred... http://gushh.net/tmp/arduinoshield.png
18:30 GuShH biker: sino en dx.com hay cosas tambien, seguro conoces la pagina.
18:31 GuShH bbl
18:32 biker GuShH, nel,., jam�s hab�a escuchado esa
18:33 biker GuShH, normalmente veo las cosas en sparkfun
18:33 biker futurlec
18:33 biker y ebay :P
20:21 rue_mohr Que no hablan espanol
20:21 rue_mohr Yo no hablo espanol
20:21 katsmeow-afk obviamente
20:21 rue_mohr Yo no hablo Ingles
20:22 katsmeow-afk Ingles: There is no such nick or channel.
20:22 rue_mohr la gente cree que hablar Ingles
20:23 katsmeow-afk usted sabe, ser�a interesante si los servicios pod�a responder en otros idiomas
20:23 Tom_itx wtf is this channel coming to
20:25 Tom_itx rue_mohr you all set to melt plastic?
20:25 rue_mohr nadie puede entender nada
20:26 rue_mohr Tom_itx, no
20:26 rue_mohr I need a meat grinder
20:27 katsmeow-afk what form is this plastic?
20:29 katsmeow-afk two servos and a circular saw would take care of most plastic in any shape
20:35 katsmeow-afk a dado blade
20:37 katsmeow-afk buy a stick of 1/2 pvc, take it home, chip it, return to store with tale of confusion about how the pipe crumbled
20:38 katsmeow-afk a tale of woe fit for shakespeare
20:38 katsmeow-afk a bucket of chipped pvc
20:44 rue_mohr abs and pet?
20:44 katsmeow-afk i'd leave out the pets
20:45 rue_mohr mmm whats todays dollar item
20:45 katsmeow-afk "these pipes are incompatable"
20:46 rue_mohr 'it broke'
20:46 rue_mohr !seen the_jester
20:46 tobbor The_jester was last seen in #robotics on Jul 09 19:44 2012
20:47 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/F02030-A-10mm-20pcs-rubber-ring-bond-Grommet-Nuts-Cable-protection-Anti-Friction-/130618034877?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e69710abd
20:47 rue_mohr THAT is totally todays item
20:47 katsmeow-afk i'm pretty sure they'd never be expecting a 5 gallon bucket full of chipped pipe being returned
20:48 Tom_itx This listing () has been removed, or this item is not available
20:48 rue_mohr odd, I just bought it
20:48 katsmeow-afk geese, that would cost $1 *Each* in the usa
20:48 katsmeow-afk Tom i still see it
20:49 Tom_itx yeah i do too now
20:49 Tom_itx dunno what that was about
20:49 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/F02030-A-10mm-20pcs-rubber-ring-bond-Grommet-Nuts-Cable-protection-Anti-Friction-/130618034877?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e69710abd
20:49 rue_mohr huh
20:49 rue_mohr whatever
20:50 rue_mohr noting has arrived yet tho :(
20:50 katsmeow-afk F02029-A 8mm 20pcs rubber ring bond/Grommet Nuts Cable ...
20:50 katsmeow-afk Location: Hong Kong C $1.01
20:50 katsmeow-afk Free Time left:
20:50 rue_mohr yes, seeing as 8mm and 10mm were the same price, I got 10mm
20:51 rue_mohr bigger is better dont you know
20:51 rue_mohr :)
20:51 katsmeow-afk F02029 8mm 1000pcs rubber ring bond/Grommet Nuts Cable ...
20:51 katsmeow-afk Location: Hong Kong C $17.30 Free
20:52 rue_mohr each day item is $1
20:52 katsmeow-afk but at your qty20 price, 1000 wold cost you $50
20:53 rue_mohr I got a message on 12/10/07 and I was HOPING it would arrive in oct.
20:53 rue_mohr dont care, limit is $1
20:53 katsmeow-afk F02032 5mm1000pcs rubber ring bond/Grommet Nuts,Cable p...
20:53 katsmeow-afk Location: Hong Kong C $10.94 Free
20:53 rue_mohr I dont need them, but they wont be useless
20:53 rue_mohr $1
20:54 rue_mohr $1/day for a year
20:54 katsmeow-afk 3900KV Brushless Motor...
20:54 katsmeow-afk C $14.08 Free
20:54 rue_mohr I started on the 2nd
20:54 rue_mohr 4 weeks,
20:54 rue_mohr *7
20:54 rue_mohr shift it two places right...
20:55 rue_mohr 28 days
20:55 rue_mohr +2...
20:55 rue_mohr so on the 30th I'll get my first package
20:55 Tom_itx at that rate you're gonna spend $30 a month $365 a year ya know :)
20:55 rue_mohr and then one/day
20:55 rue_mohr for just $365 I get a package every day!
20:55 rue_mohr (a year)
20:55 rue_mohr day
20:55 rue_mohr ugh
20:55 rue_mohr for just $365 a year I get a package every day!
20:56 Tom_itx are you an active member of the dollar a day club?
20:56 Tom_itx i wonder how many won't be delivered properly
20:57 rue_mohr all sorts of fun
20:57 rue_mohr sofar, most of it isn't tooo easily broken
20:57 rue_mohr put $2 on a metric spade bit and won it
20:58 rue_mohr ok well $2 GBP, so like $40
20:58 rue_mohr anyhow, i won it
20:58 katsmeow-afk how did those plans for buying 7,600 AA cells work out?
20:58 rue_mohr there wasn't
20:58 rue_mohr it was about 13600 of them
20:58 katsmeow-afk for making the truck electric?
20:58 katsmeow-afk oh
20:58 rue_mohr yes
20:59 katsmeow-afk so,,, how did that work out?
20:59 rue_mohr it was just the engineering data, I'm not building
20:59 rue_mohr I'm thinking about the 658kg of batteries
20:59 katsmeow-afk what was the price?
20:59 rue_mohr in context of the 1500kg truck
20:59 rue_mohr didn't look
20:59 katsmeow-afk plus, at 300 recharges, they would be too tired to drive the truck before a year is up
21:00 rue_mohr heh, not at all
21:00 rue_mohr it would be 1 or 2 recharges a week for me
21:00 rue_mohr I only put on 20km/week average
21:01 katsmeow-afk id idg etaf lyert odaya boutp ropane, btu equal of $2.40 gasoline or 7cent/kwh electricity
21:01 tsmeow-afk stares at her space bar some
21:01 katsmeow-afk i did get a flyer today about propane, btu equal of $2.40 gasoline or 7cent/kwh electricity
21:02 rue_mohr id id get a flyer ...
21:02 rue_mohr thanks
21:03 katsmeow-afk $1.78/gal first fillup, $1.959 until March 2013
21:03 rue_mohr step1 is up to 1287kwh at 0.068 / kwh
21:03 rue_mohr step 2 is anythng over at 0.1019/kwh
21:04 katsmeow-afk electricity here is 0.13/kwh
21:04 rue_mohr get this
21:04 katsmeow-afk still, the gotcha is the electricity is still worth it if i lose 50% of the heat due to lack of heat exchangers
21:04 rue_mohr you have expensive canadian electricity, canada has cheap usa power
21:05 katsmeow-afk nah, i don't think they import Canadain electricity all the way down here
21:05 rue_mohr because we can turn our dams on/off in a matter of minutes, we charge the usa thru the nose for it during the damand times
21:05 rue_mohr we buy our power cheap from the usa cause they cant turn it off and often have surplus
21:05 rue_mohr :P
21:05 katsmeow-afk i never said the usa did anything smart
21:06 rue_mohr takes you months to get a boiler/reactor up/down
21:06 rue_mohr ok weeks/months
21:07 katsmeow-afk yep, and the powercos are currently going into debt buying natural gas gennies, when that won't last long enough to pay for the equipment
21:07 rue_mohr as I understand california is so deep in power debt to canada we should just take possession of it
21:07 rue_mohr I suppose there is a holdup working out if we actually want it
21:07 rue_mohr :)
21:07 katsmeow-afk it's not California, it's Oregon and Wash, because they blew up some big dams up there yrs agao to protect fish
21:08 rue_mohr we make fish ladders
21:08 katsmeow-afk the idiocy of moving power from Wash down to So Cal is half the power is lost in heat in the transmission lines
21:09 katsmeow-afk so Cal is now trying to get around usa laws to buy power from Mexico, however they wanna generate it
21:09 rue_mohr not too long ago, the entirety of hawii was run on genorator
21:09 katsmeow-afk a powerline to the Nevada desert for solar power is being repurposed to get power from Mexico
21:10 rue_mohr makes you start to understand why the usa will destroy any country that threatens its fuel supply
21:10 katsmeow-afk it still is, that otec plant is all but shut down
21:10 rue_mohr hawii is breaking out in small solar systems
21:11 katsmeow-afk i can garantee you my power bill is 1/4 what anyone elses is around me
21:11 Tom_itx we buy your oil and send you power don't we?
21:11 Tom_itx mine isn't bad
21:12 rue_mohr I have to replace the carb on the genny
21:12 rue_mohr its shot again
21:12 katsmeow-afk i did not need to use an air conditioner till after severald ays of temps over 100F, simply because of the way the house is built, it didn't get to 80F inside
21:12 katsmeow-afk rue, i am pondering propane carb on the baby genny
21:12 Tom_itx they're putting up wind farms around here
21:13 rue_mohr Tom_itx, is it for political reasons?
21:13 katsmeow-afk basically, pwm a gasoline fuel injector with a regulated propane feed to it
21:13 rue_mohr have the govner turn a pot?
21:14 rue_mohr how much propane to run a 10HP gen I wonder
21:14 rue_mohr running on propane would make it so much easier to start...
21:15 katsmeow-afk dunno, but like i said, $1.95 propane = $2.40 gasoline
21:15 rue_mohr they adjusted the price of propane here to make it the same in the end
21:15 katsmeow-afk yep, impossible to wet the sparkplug, flooding would clear in 2 revs of the crank, oil would last longer, etc
21:16 katsmeow-afk i ran a F250 with 351 on propane for years
21:17 katsmeow-afk i figure if i run the genny on propane at that price, and capture the heat in winter, and draw only 10amps@120vac, i win
21:18 katsmeow-afk would be easier with a 3 or 4 cyl engine, water cooled, and 1800rpm genny, but can't have everything
21:18 katsmeow-afk what i fear witht hat set up tho, is i will have too much heat
21:19 katsmeow-afk a bbq tank will heat and light the bedroom for 3 weeks in worst winter conditions
21:29 rue_mohr !assist projects/smelter
21:29 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/smelter
21:33 rrywolf is back from work. /me works too hard.
21:33 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/smelter/p1040233.jpg
21:34 rue_mohr RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
21:34 rue_mohr hmm wonder if I should go get more diesel for it now
21:34 Tom_itx i can't decide whether to plunge cut into this plastic or not
21:34 katsmeow-afk wow, did you get that nice slab of concrete off ebay too?
21:34 rue_mohr oh, my welding table?
21:34 katsmeow-afk yeas
21:35 rue_mohr its the part of the old patio that wouldn't break up
21:35 rue_mohr so it became the 'fireproof' table
21:35 rue_mohr weldingon concrete sucks
21:35 rue_mohr esp flame welding
21:35 rue_mohr *POP*
21:35 rue_mohr *CRACK*
21:35 katsmeow-afk yeas
21:35 katsmeow-afk haveto wear glasses
21:36 rue_mohr I'v has peices fly by my ear so fast they sounded like bullets
21:36 katsmeow-afk *good* glasses, full wrap coverage
21:36 rue_mohr pzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
21:37 rue_mohr that insulation I put in the smelter works awesome, even after hours you can still put your hand on it
21:37 rue_mohr hours of running
21:37 katsmeow-afk that's how i made these : http://designerthinking.com/images/misc/shards%20of%20rock.jpg
21:37 rue_mohr :) I recall
21:38 katsmeow-afk some went flying well over the house, and as you know, big house
21:38 rue_mohr I told myself I'd work on the mecha durig the summer, I best get going
21:38 rue_mohr I'll get another can of diesel and see if I can get the heat up higher
21:39 rue_mohr otherwise just pour some more bars
21:39 m_itx wonders if rue_mohr is putting off his heatplant when he's gonna need it to play with his dream
21:39 katsmeow-afk make some http://designerthinking.com/images/misc/IMG_0350m.jpg
21:40 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/misc/IMG_0352m.jpg
21:40 katsmeow-afk the handle is 3/8 rod, the prongs are nails, i grooved it freehand with a dremel, and it's a great, the best, flosser
21:43 katsmeow-afk guy that did own the recycling center, compalined about the heat in summer while he was smelting metals, and then complained about the cold in winter when he didn't feel like going outside to run the smelter
21:43 katsmeow-afk seemed all backwards
21:50 rrywolf curls up on katsmeow-afk's
21:51 katsmeow-afk rue : http://learning.eng.cam.ac.uk/pub/Public/Wolpert/Publications/HowIngKoerWol09.pdf
21:52 katsmeow-afk a study of humans moving, naturally, for days, applicable to robotic movements
21:52 GuShH rue_mohr: I've had a chunk of concrete blow up and fly onto my face. problem is I was working on some alu and molten chunks also flew off, found tiny bits of metal and concrete in my beard afterwards.
21:53 katsmeow-afk i am happy to see the range of 90% of all motions during 9hours of recorded movement include what's needed to lift out a car battery from a car
21:53 katsmeow-afk so yeas, that strength is still required
21:56 rrywolf sighs, since hasn't been getting any pets lately.
21:56 ShH pets furry
21:56 katsmeow-afk my writst is screwed up
21:56 ShH fixes katsmeow-afk's wrist with a wr
21:57 katsmeow-afk i fell the otehr day, went flying with all 4 paws off the ground, onto that beautiful rock int he creek
21:58 GuShH you gotta be more careful!
21:58 ShH pets katsmeow-afk
21:58 katsmeow-afk and no one pets me or hackkitten or spacekitteh :-(
21:58 acekitteh petpets katsmeow
21:59 furrywolf you never curl up on anyone's lap for pets!
21:59 katsmeow-afk i am way less forward than you are, i tend to stay behind humans and under furniture or up on bookshelves
22:00 katsmeow-afk furry, see http://classic.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?num=1&delay=15&scale=1.00&noclutter=0&ID=BMX&type=N0R&lat=0&lon=0&label=you&showstorms=0&showlabels=1&rainsnow=0 ? that whol mess evaporated as it came up from the south of me, went over me with not ONE DROP of rain, and reassembled itself where it is now
22:01 katsmeow-afk i got noting
22:01 tsmeow-afk looks pe
22:02 tsmeow-afk aparece ser irri
22:03 katsmeow-afk fastidiado, even
22:05 katsmeow-afk hey rue, those gemmets for $1.01CDN are $0.99USA , how di the CDN get lower value than the USA dollar?
22:05 katsmeow-afk gemmets/grommets
22:09 tsmeow-afk notes some moron just paid $64 for soemthing that is stil on auction for $40, and a buy-now price of
22:09 katsmeow-afk !ping
22:10 katsmeow-afk ...
22:10 rrywolf pokes around behind the furniture until finding a katsmeow-afk, then
22:11 tsmeow-afk looks surpr
22:20 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/Naxa-NR716-Pocket-AM-FM-Radio-Red-NR-716-New-/330741692907 <<== pocket radio, but note the volume and tune knobs on the side, so when you drop it into you pocket, it changes stations and volume
22:26 katsmeow-afk ...........................
22:33 katsmeow-afk .........................
22:33 katsmeow-afk �?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�
22:35 ferdna for this phototransistor:
22:35 ferdna http://www.sparkfun.com/products/246
22:35 ferdna whats the IR wavelenght?
22:35 ferdna *length
22:36 katsmeow-afk you didn't read the datasheet, because i did, and it says what the wavelength is
22:36 katsmeow-afk see:
22:37 katsmeow-afk Documents:
22:37 katsmeow-afk �Datasheet
22:37 katsmeow-afk click on Datasheet
22:37 katsmeow-afk rtfm
22:37 katsmeow-afk this is why i wonder why english does not work, and why furrywolf says he won't do your homeworkfor you
22:40 ferdna ok so its 940nm... i couldn't find it...
22:42 furrywolf ok, hot side now has a fan on it...
22:42 ferdna will this be faster than an LDR?
22:42 furrywolf wow, it's cold! fingers stick if you touch it.
22:43 katsmeow-afk depends on how you define LDR
22:43 furrywolf hot side is still too hot though.
22:43 GuShH ferdna: yes
22:43 furrywolf cold side is warming up again. :(
22:44 ferdna GuShH, is the difference too much?
22:44 GuShH yes
22:44 GuShH what are you trying to do
22:44 GuShH also, look at it with a scope and a function generator.
22:45 furrywolf I guess I can get a more powerful fan...
22:45 katsmeow-afk you MUST heatsink the hot side, those things are terribly inefficient, and must dissipate the power going in PLUS the heat they remove from the cold side
22:45 ferdna i dont have a scope or function generator =/
22:45 ferdna GuShH, a tachometer...
22:45 GuShH yes that's non descriptive, still.
22:45 GuShH up to what RPM
22:45 furrywolf katsmeow-afk: right now the hot side is on a big aluminum heatsink with copper spreader and an 80mm fan.
22:45 GuShH cheapos go up to 99.999
22:45 GuShH And I just somehow cut my finger without noticing, paper cut... but I wasn't working with paper
22:46 GuShH I was sanding a fridge compressor down :/
22:46 ferdna 20,000
22:46 furrywolf http://www.dansdata.com/quickshot004.htm the first cpu cooler on that page
22:46 GuShH ferdna: generate a sweep from 1 to 100KHz using your mcu and look at the response on a scope
22:46 GuShH ferdna: you'll need to amplify a lot.
22:47 GuShH thus you'll also need to deal with common noise
22:47 furrywolf next step will be a faster fan, but I don't have one handy.
22:47 GuShH furrywolf: over-volt one you don't like?
22:47 furrywolf over-volting requires a step-up power supply, which is more work than a better fan.
22:47 ferdna dont have a scope ='/
22:47 GuShH I thought you were doing this on the lab where you'd usually find a variable power supply
22:48 furrywolf I don't have a lab.
22:48 furrywolf or a good variable power supply.
22:48 GuShH ferdna: hm. we could compromise with extra amplification and a CD4017 to divide the input by up to 10 and look at it on the sound card.
22:48 furrywolf I'm doing it on my desk with a random gel-cell for power.
22:48 GuShH ferdna: otherwise if your dmm has a frequency mode, you could assume that if it does register the frequency (after amplification) then it'll be possible for you to read it with the mcu also.
22:49 GuShH just make sure your amplfier has a low-ish output impedance.
22:49 furrywolf it is staying below freezing, at least... got a nice layer of frost forming on the scrap of aluminum I'm using for the cold side.
22:49 GuShH furrywolf: you could use two 12v in series
22:50 GuShH a cpu fan will survive a bunch of tests just fine
22:50 furrywolf in normal use, it'll be running off the 12v bus on my solar system.
22:50 GuShH what is it for? :p
22:50 furrywolf ant trap.
22:50 ShH r
22:51 GuShH You have evil plots, just like the ants do.
22:51 furrywolf I'm going to put a mostly empty can of soda on the cold side, wait for the ants to start a column into it, then turn it on.
22:51 furrywolf past experience with a freezer at another house showed me they'll quite happily freeze themselves to death.
22:51 GuShH you think they won't signal "go away" ?
22:51 GuShH interesting.
22:51 furrywolf they didn't before. fucking half inch layer of dead ants in the bottom of the freezer when I got back from the trip I went on.
22:51 GuShH but make sure they hop onto the can using a wooden stick, I don't think they'll climb onto a freezing cold chunk of alu
22:52 GuShH hey half inch of dead ants in the freezer = half inch off your food
22:52 furrywolf the can will be in one of those foam insulating sleeves they sell for keeping cans cool.
22:52 furrywolf I'm more thinking they won't like climbing up the hot heatsink. :P
22:53 ShH needs a proper mask with proper paint / fumes catri
22:54 furrywolf crappy chinese thermal paste... the paste on the cold side of the peltier is rock hard, while the hot side slips around.
22:54 katsmeow-afk i keep thinking antfood is cheaper, faster, acts over a far larger area
22:54 GuShH what's in antfood
22:54 furrywolf things that kill pets, brain cells, etc.
22:55 GuShH Damn stores, they didn't have any air hose left.
22:55 GuShH just the empty box.
22:55 katsmeow-afk afaik, it's a very small amount of gas released in the ant tunnels, and dissipates quickly
22:55 GuShH kits used to come with 15M of hose, now they only have 5M
22:55 katsmeow-afk it works only because it is in the tunnels
22:55 GuShH which is useless.
22:56 furrywolf blah. boss just called. have work at 10:30 tonight.
22:56 katsmeow-afk that seems normal for you
22:56 GuShH isn't that a good thing?
22:56 katsmeow-afk but it seems to surprise you just the same
22:56 furrywolf it's good because it's not another midnight run...
22:57 furrywolf they've been happening more often lately. used to be only one night run a month or so.
22:57 ferdna GuShH, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lx60mFmKwg&feature=related
22:58 GuShH I think the fumes of this solvent are far worse than the paint I'm using...
22:59 furrywolf the bad fumes from paint come from the solvents used, which are part of the paint. solvents are, well, pure, not part. would make sense they're worse... :P
22:59 GuShH ferdna: so?
23:00 GuShH true, true.
23:00 furrywolf I've made a nice little dehumidifier, as long as I keep cycling it off so the water drips off. :P
23:00 ferdna GuShH, thats what i wanted to make
23:00 GuShH cleaning up airbrushes indoors = bad idea
23:01 GuShH ferdna: the ldr will basically suck and you'll need a lot of signal conditioning and it probably won't work properly at all.
23:01 furrywolf should I get a faster fan for this one, or find an even bigger heatsink?
23:02 furrywolf I have bigger heatsinks, but they're all for bigger devices... would need to build a copper heat spreader for them, methinks.
23:02 katsmeow-afk if it's hotter than oem specs, get a bigger heatsink
23:02 katsmeow-afk you were looking for a water heater, weren't you?
23:02 furrywolf there's no oem specs. as far as I know, no one manufactures a peltier-based ant trap. :P
23:03 katsmeow-afk there's usually a max hot side temperature, above which the crystals fracture and it stops working
23:03 katsmeow-afk there's also a max rate of change
23:03 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/AVC-Z7U7408-PENTIUM-478-COPPER-HEAT-PIPE-CPU-COOLER-FAN-/320939252434?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item4ab9785ad2 how about that one? :)
23:04 furrywolf measuring the actual junction temperature is very hard.
23:04 katsmeow-afk puter is too busy atm to open a browser :-(
23:04 furrywolf I can comfortably hold the heatsink, so assuming the junction resistance isn't too bad (chinese thermal paste, probably too much of it), that means the hot side can't be too bad.
23:05 GuShH -8�C in the middle of nowhere right now...
23:07 rrywolf graps a photo of the test s
23:08 tsmeow-afk watches the furry grappin
23:08 GuShH amazing how well this home-made air compressor works, too bad the tank is so small and the recovery so shitty.
23:08 GuShH will end up buying one anyway
23:08 furrywolf what is your compressor made from?
23:09 katsmeow-afk huh?
23:09 GuShH with what I had in hand last weekend, an old fridge compressor and an old oxygen tank.
23:09 GuShH then some fittings and a few extras.
23:10 furrywolf meh, my 12v battery is going dead, and I think it's actually getting _colder_. I'll take that as proof that I need better cooling on the hot side.
23:10 rue_shop while I get the smelter as hot as I can, could someone tell me a good casting temp for aluminum?
23:10 katsmeow-afk depends on the alloy, but generally as cool as possible
23:10 rue_shop 1100c
23:11 rue_shop ?
23:11 katsmeow-afk ouch
23:11 GuShH the pressure switch is set to ~60PSI since that's near it's maximum rated pressure... sadly.
23:11 rue_shop has to be hot enough to get in the corners
23:11 GuShH the rest can happily keep 120PSI
23:11 katsmeow-afk sprue the corners
23:11 katsmeow-afk pour fast
23:11 GuShH add a second pipe?
23:14 furrywolf http://fw.bushytails.net/peltier01.jpg test setup
23:14 rue_shop I think I may have to go electric, looks like the blower is only going up to 900c
23:16 katsmeow-afk furry, is that sink big enough to dissipate the dc you are feeding it?
23:16 katsmeow-afk rue, why is 900C too low?
23:17 katsmeow-afk crap, i knew i shouldn't have opened a browser
23:17 furrywolf it's a pretty big sink, and as I said, I can comfortably hold it.
23:17 furrywolf of course, the way these work, if I put on a heat sink that runs ten degrees cooler, the cold side gets ten degrees cooler too..
23:17 katsmeow-afk Melting point 933.47 K, 660.32 �C, 1220.58 �F
23:17 GuShH furrywolf: what's with the hose clamps?
23:18 furrywolf GuShH: the big pile, or the ones keeping the fan from sitting flat on the desk and being unable to suck air? :)
23:18 GuShH the pile1
23:18 GuShH also that's a novel use for them right there.
23:18 katsmeow-afk 900c for stuff melting at 660c sounds fine to me
23:18 furrywolf I was sorting my plumbing, and that was the pile of hose clamps I found while doing so.
23:18 furrywolf I needed something to keep the fan off the surface, looked around, and they were the best suitable object I found. :)
23:19 GuShH problem with the compressor... no startup relay, someone ripped it off. so I'm starting it by hand, thought about using a big PTC between the run and start coils, but couldn't find them anywhere.
23:20 furrywolf starting relays are cheap/free.
23:20 GuShH also it's running with a ballast right now, and it won't start under pressure. I wonder if it'll ever start with pressure.
23:20 furrywolf no, it won't.
23:20 GuShH might be the reason why it was thrown away
23:20 furrywolf use a pressure switch with an unloader valve.
23:20 GuShH I can rig something with a solenoid and another pressure switch
23:20 furrywolf virtually no compressors will start under pressure - this is why all standard air compressor pressure switches have unloaders.
23:20 katsmeow-afk and burn out .,,, trick is to pull them in at 12vdc and then drop the voltage to 6-8v within a sec
23:20 GuShH or the actual one
23:21 katsmeow-afk they'll live forever at 6v , but some will drop out under 8v
23:21 furrywolf you don't need another switch; just use a normally open solenoid in parallel with the motor power.
23:21 GuShH furrywolf: do they unload the line between them and the tank only?
23:21 GuShH that would require some fast switching and a sort of vessel... guess not
23:22 furrywolf they release the pressure from the line between the compressor and the tank. there's a check valve at the tank end.
23:22 GuShH my solenoids just have a 220vac coil and nothing else
23:22 katsmeow-afk one hopes
23:22 furrywolf the volume of the line is large enough that the compressor can get going before it re-pressurizes.
23:22 GuShH ok the time it takes for this compressor to start is too long for that
23:22 katsmeow-afk one hopes
23:22 GuShH since my line is short, I'd need a vessel in between
23:22 furrywolf I've made two compressors using the solenoid-valve-in-parallel-with-motor trick. :)
23:23 katsmeow-afk you can also block the intake, if it cannot suck in air, it cannot build back pressure
23:23 GuShH or a controller of sorts.
23:23 GuShH furrywolf: hey I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just saying I may not have the right parts.
23:23 furrywolf sec
23:23 GuShH katsmeow-afk: that's also a good idea, haven't tried it
23:23 GuShH I could implement that one easily I think
23:24 GuShH katsmeow-afk: but it would still be under pressure...
23:24 GuShH it won't start with back pressure only?
23:24 tsmeow-afk is going to assume there's someone else in this conversa
23:24 GuShH furrywolf: this thing would work wonders with small airbrushes, I got a medium sized one for testing purposes, the tank is just too small.
23:24 GuShH I can pause 2-3 seconds between passes though
23:25 GuShH oh so katsmeow-afk still has me on ignore..
23:25 GuShH how nice.
23:25 GuShH that's the kind of shit that makes me angry and thus annoying, by the way.
23:25 furrywolf what type of compressor are you using, again?
23:25 GuShH leaving ##e helped, but it's not the cure.
23:25 GuShH fridge, regular size (haven't got the specs)
23:26 GuShH I may end up buying a proper compressor this week.
23:26 furrywolf you're aware those have a very short lifespan without continuous oiling, right?
23:26 GuShH continuous in what way? I keep the oil in check
23:26 GuShH does it need to return from the intake?
23:26 GuShH I thought the intake was just welded to the outer case
23:27 katsmeow-afk what are?
23:27 furrywolf http://fw.bushytails.net/unloadersolenoid01.jpg the unloader valve on the last compressor I put together. :)
23:27 GuShH s/from/to
23:27 furrywolf normally they pump out oil, which has to be replenished...
23:28 furrywolf and makes them absolutely unsuitable for painting.
23:28 GuShH not if you've got a trap
23:28 GuShH and you add oil
23:28 GuShH also it was either building that, or watching tv.
23:29 furrywolf it's pretty much impossible to trap that much oil. there's a reason airbrush compressors are all diahragm units. :)
23:29 furrywolf diaphragm
23:29 furrywolf blah
23:29 ShH isn't painting
23:30 katsmeow-afk 5 gallon tank, bleed off thebottom back up to the intake, result is the oilkeeps recirculating, altho not in a well controlled fashion
23:30 furrywolf that gets all the water and rust too.
23:31 furrywolf an inline oil seperator immediately on the compressor output, with its drain back to the intake, works better, and is the usual trick I've seen for using a/c compressors for air.
23:33 furrywolf the solenoid valve I used on that compressor is a standard 3-way valve, with the inlet plugged, the output to the compressor, and the exhaust with a brass muffler to make it quieter.
23:33 katsmeow-afk well, you said "that much" so i jumped up to 5 gallons
23:34 furrywolf that is, a standard pneumatic 3-way valve, which is designed to alternately apply and exhaust air from a cylinder, so it routes either in->out or out->exhaust.
23:36 furrywolf I need to fix that compressor... the tank check valve stuck closed, making the compressor very unahappy.
23:36 furrywolf bleh.
23:48 furrywolf amazing, tonight's flight is expect to be only ten minutes late. this might be a new record.
23:48 furrywolf expected
23:53 rue_mohr I do understand your showing me higher value listings, but the cost is too high, $1 max.
23:54 katsmeow-afk i didn't show you any in hours