#robotics Logs

Jul 09 2012

00:32 ferdna =/
00:33 rue_mohr do you want ot make a plane?
00:34 rrywolf curls up next to katsmeow-
00:37 furrywolf one of the big rc forums sites has a pretty active irc channel, but it's been years since I've seen it, so don't remember where it is.
00:46 rue_mohr I think I still need to buy my dollar item today
00:47 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Universal-Mini-USB-Car-Charger-Adapter-Black-/261034439696?pt=US_Wholesale_Batteries_Power_Accessories&hash=item3cc6dd7410
00:48 rue_mohr 12V to 5V 3.5W converter?
00:48 rue_mohr (wanna bet 7805?)
00:48 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-x-9V-Battery-Clip-Connector-Cable-Free-Shipping-/140779722267?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c720161b
00:48 rue_mohr ?
00:48 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Creative-Writing-Fluently-Needle-Tube-Pen-Syringe-Shape-Ball-point-Pen-/330757340616?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d02ac7dc8
00:49 rue_mohr ok I got the pen
00:49 furrywolf I've peeked inside two chinese usb car adapters... both had switchers.
00:50 rue_mohr $1 adapter?
00:50 furrywolf yep
00:50 furrywolf one was a cheap usb adapter with two jacks on the front, the other was a 3 cigarette lighter outlet + usb outlet splitter box.
00:51 furrywolf both had little switchers instead of the expected 7805.
00:52 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-Cigarette-Lighter-3-Triple-Sockets-1-USB-Port-Car-Charger-Outlet-Adapter-/320911516089?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item4ab7d121b9
00:52 furrywolf looks like the same model, except white instead of black
00:53 furrywolf (of course, looking the same doesn't mean the insides are in any way related, especially for chinese products...)
00:54 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-OUTLET-3-WAY-CAR-CIGARETTE-SOCKET-CHARGER-ADAPTOR-SPLITTER-BLACK-/170840229863?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item27c6df07e7&vxp=mtr
00:54 furrywolf it had that weird side-out plug on it
00:59 rue_mohr thats $4, I said $1
00:59 furrywolf the usb portion of it is 1/4 of the jacks. :P
00:59 rue_mohr $1, free shipping
01:00 rue_mohr buy it now
01:00 furrywolf the $1ish usb adapter was way too generic looking for me to attempt to find it again
01:00 rue_mohr asia is on fire?
01:01 rue_mohr http://cliffmass.blogspot.ca/2012/07/asian-smoke-reaches-north-america.html
01:01 rue_mohr its toto warm out, the ups fan keep kicking in, and its not even inverting
01:02 rue_mohr oh wait, well its an online ups
01:11 furrywolf bbl, bedtime
01:11 rrywolf flops back next to katsmeow-
01:17 ferdna rue_mohr, yeah i would like to make a plane
02:04 rue_bed hmm
09:20 rue_mohr 8 256 9 512 10 1024 11 2048 12 4096 13 8192 14 16k 15 32k 16 64k
09:22 rue_mohr 17 128k 18 256k 19 512k 20 1M 21 2M 22 4M 23 8M 24 16M 25 32M 26 64M 27 128M 28 256M 29 512M 30 1G 31 2G 32 4G
09:22 rue_mohr so much for a 16x16 multilication lookup table
09:25 rue_mohr I suppose a hardware shift right dosn't take any time
09:25 rue_mohr wonder how fast I could add 16 16 bit numbers
09:27 rue_mohr 16x16 division is a killer too
09:44 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: 4G assumes that the answer is 8 bits.. for a proper table you're looking at more like 16G.. might be better off having an 8x8=16 table then combining the results
09:44 rue_mohr in hardware?
09:44 rue_mohr :S
09:47 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: sure, just need to add the results of 4 table lookups.. 8x8=16 table is 128k. how much of a tradeoff of speed vs space are you going for here?
10:49 katsmeow-afk whacha do is make 4 ram cells, each 18bit address and 16bit data, split the 16x16 multiply into 4 8x8 multiplies, then feed the data back as additions, you use 2^18 memories cause nowadays they are as cheap as 64k rams, and you use the top 2 bits as multiply-divide-subtract-add function selectors
10:49 katsmeow-afk when not doing 16bit math, you ca use them as 4 discrete general purpose 8x8 math units
10:50 non-sense so happy this channel exists :)
10:50 katsmeow-afk but you just got here
10:50 non-sense yup
10:51 non-sense needed some fanuc help, was out of ideas, i said to myself, lets try fn
10:51 katsmeow-afk oo, ok, out of my price range
10:51 non-sense i tried #fanuc and #robots and almost lost faith
10:51 katsmeow-afk there is no #fanuc
10:52 non-sense I can't afford one either.
10:52 katsmeow-afk did you try a channel list?
10:52 non-sense random guesses
10:52 non-sense #robotics worked :D
10:52 katsmeow-afk ah, random guesses, the olde P1 math procedure
10:52 non-sense haha
10:53 non-sense anywho, I have a R-30iA controller. I'm trying to find the wiring contacts for servos_on or motors_on
10:53 tsmeow-afk looks clue
10:53 non-sense does anyone hang aorund here with fanuc experience?
10:54 katsmeow-afk i few of us have heard of them
10:54 katsmeow-afk this is mostly all hobby stuff here
10:54 non-sense ohh i see. that's still cool
10:55 katsmeow-afk some have some awesome hobby stuff, all diy, but afaik no one went out and bought $100k new stuff
10:56 katsmeow-afk yo can idle and see who responds as they drift back thru, i think atm everyone but me is afk, and i have -afk in my nick,, ironic
10:56 non-sense yeah hehe
10:56 non-sense at work right now. looking for help
10:56 non-sense I cant afford a car, let alone a robot.
10:56 non-sense a fanuc one at that.
10:56 katsmeow-afk didja try Fanuc's website?
10:56 non-sense yeah, not helpful at all. I got several manuals, I'm trudging through a 500page pdf right now
10:57 non-sense found alot of info i was looking for, but not this last one - contacts for motors on/enable
10:57 non-sense because I dont own one, (im doing design for a company) i get no help
10:57 non-sense i cant even get manuals from them with a proper F code
10:58 non-sense I've found my manuals via google
10:59 katsmeow-afk lol: Contactor Coil Inductive Kick Causes Blown Fuses
10:59 katsmeow-afk The 24V supply used for relays and contactors has a crowbar type overvoltage protector (which we didn't know about). The main ESTOP relay that we installed when we re-did the ESTOP chain had an unsuppressed coil. Normally not a problem, but the voltage spike when the relay dropped out was enough to fire the crowbar and blow the fuse in the power supply.
11:05 katsmeow-afk From: http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/things-morning/print?id=16738806
11:05 katsmeow-afk Downloaded: 2012/07/09 07:06
11:05 katsmeow-afk 5 Things To Know This Morning
11:05 katsmeow-afk 1. Tornado His Virginia
11:06 katsmeow-afk good to know, casts a pall of validity over the remaining 4 things to know
11:06 katsmeow-afk "tornado his Virginia"
11:06 tsmeow-afk s
11:07 katsmeow-afk 5. Kids with Cats, Dogs as Pets Healthier
11:07 katsmeow-afk not mentioned: those that pick up diseases from the pets
11:09 katsmeow-afk ..... the airline said in a statement. "All customers are being given full refunds for this inconvenience."
11:09 katsmeow-afk great! free inconvienences!
11:21 rrywolf hops on katsmeow-afk's
12:39 furrywolf wow... the more of this solar stuff I look up, the more it seems I got a really good haul this weekend....
12:40 furrywolf just the tmpering valve is $77... I think I spent $5 for it. brand new.
12:43 furrywolf seems like it uses a balancing act between a couple springs and a wax pellet tube, like on a car thermostat.
17:06 anannie Hi katsmeow-afk
19:28 rue_mohr can anyone remind me of something I need to get done?
19:38 atom1 i could think of a couple things
19:58 ace4016 rue_mohr, 12' robot
19:58 ace4016 $1 item per day
19:58 ace4016 reprap?
19:58 ace4016 that's all i know or seen in the passing >_>
19:59 katsmeow-afk i need a new wrist
19:59 katsmeow-afk and the tree climbing robot
20:01 ace4016 have your wrist in a brace after the fall?
20:10 katsmeow-afk no, i didn't want it to freese up, so i been moving it
20:10 katsmeow-afk slowly, no weight, not to the point of it being painful
20:10 atom1 i think i'll sit here and run a few parts
20:12 anannie I have a question, I want to model a few things in SolidWorks and do my best to understand which configurations of things would be better
20:14 ace4016 ?
20:14 anannie I have some CAD experience from the time I was 17 in the form of doing FEA for a project, so I'm not completely lost in such a situation, but I would still like to know if there are things that I need to do to make ensure the rigor of my simulations... Where can I learn how to properly do this stuff?
20:19 katsmeow-afk ##cad , #freecad , #heekscad , #librecad
20:19 anannie thanks katsmeow-afk... I'll go ask there
20:19 katsmeow-afk to get a channel list, type //list
20:20 katsmeow-afk if your client can do a sort or search on the list , best to get it all at once that way
20:20 katsmeow-afk if you cannot do a search on the list, try: //list searchterms
20:21 anannie Thanks :D I'm using LimeChat so calling up the list is easy, but seriously thank you
20:21 anannie /list cad
20:21 katsmeow-afk <curtsey>
20:21 katsmeow-afk no,, umm
20:21 katsmeow-afk i do not know how LimeCha sends commands to the irc server, but it's a server command
20:22 katsmeow-afk maybe //raw list cad
20:22 katsmeow-afk i don't know, i use mirc
20:22 anannie Done. BTW, can I message you privately?
20:23 katsmeow-afk ok
20:24 katsmeow-afk fwiw, the ddr2 ram modules use 50 pins worth of space to connect 16 address lines
20:25 katsmeow-afk this pin layout looks like an idiot did it
20:33 katsmeow-afk addr13 is off by itself, separated from the rest of the addr by 5 spaces, that's has got to make timing wierd
20:33 katsmeow-afk then there's addr10, a space, addr0, and then another gap of 5 spaces
20:33 katsmeow-afk considering timing is spec's to dozens of picosecs and line lengths at 1/2 mm, and it operates at 550Mhz, this layout smells real bad
20:41 Tom_itx mmm does linux have something to make a mpg smaller?
21:01 rue_mohr no packges :(
21:01 rue_mohr Tom_itx, yes
21:01 Tom_itx rue_mohr
21:01 Tom_itx wanna see something?
21:01 furrywolf meh. I might have screwed something up at work. :(
21:02 furrywolf I don't think it's quite "time to check the help wanted ads" bad, but still rather not good.
21:02 rue_mohr mencoder, but its such a complex program that if you cant find someone who has worked on it in the last year there is no hope of getting the command line options right
21:02 rrywolf curls up on katsmeow-afk and hides from the w
21:02 Tom_itx 99% done
21:02 Tom_itx i'll give you a link
21:05 Tom_itx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CEqokrtFI4&feature=youtu.be
21:06 The_jester greets
21:10 The_jester rue
21:11 The_jester are you here
21:11 atom1 he's hiding from you
21:11 The_jester appearently
21:11 e_jester looks under tables
21:29 The_jester rue!!!
21:36 katsmeow-afk this storm is making some rain, which is great news, cause this place is 6 inches behind in rain this year, which is why the creek is so low
21:39 rrywolf is worried about work.
21:57 katsmeow-afk did anyone eat dinner for me?
21:59 furrywolf nope. worrying.
22:00 theBear and i forgot to eat yer breakfast too :(
22:00 katsmeow-afk that's ok, i got breakfast covered today
22:01 katsmeow-afk wondering how to make a clean 14v 120amp dc to float batteries across
22:01 katsmeow-afk or more
22:01 atom1 i got one but not 120A
22:02 theBear mm.... that's a lotta power
22:02 theBear bout 1700w i think
22:02 atom1 mine's only 45A
22:02 katsmeow-afk it's a ton more difficult than making a clean 190vdc at 8amps
22:03 atom1 http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/12v_supply2.jpg
22:03 furrywolf a bunch of rewired microwave oven transformers. :)
22:04 katsmeow-afk those are pretty inefficielnt, and at 60hz i'd need farads of caps
22:05 furrywolf capacitor size is a constant regardless of power supply topology. with a switcher you'd have big high voltage, low capacitance caps instead.
22:05 katsmeow-afk yeas,, and thing is, 120amp would carry the leoad but not recharge the batetries :-/
22:05 furrywolf what is this load?
22:05 katsmeow-afk the computers
22:05 katsmeow-afk a few lites
22:05 katsmeow-afk monitors
22:06 furrywolf can you switch to 24v or 48v?
22:06 furrywolf things are much easier at 24v, like 1/4 the copper...
22:06 katsmeow-afk doesn't matter when i have all of them on, if i have all of them one and power goes out, i don't wanna be counting on a 300w ups
22:06 katsmeow-afk i can switch to 120vdc, actually
22:07 katsmeow-afk at which point, stepping up to 160v-peak of a sine wave becomes trivial
22:07 furrywolf if you're looking to spend money, the Xantrex Prosine 2.0 and 3.0 have built-in chargers... I think the 3.0's charger is 120A. they go for about $500 used though.
22:09 furrywolf "TIMING LIGHT: A stroboscopic instrument for illuminating grease buildup on crankshaft pulleys. " "TWO-TON HYDRAULIC ENGINE HOIST: A handy tool for testing the tensile strength of ground straps and hydraulic clutch lines" this list of garage tools is good. :)
22:11 katsmeow-afk sounds very sensable
22:17 furrywolf "AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a coal-burning power plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that travels by hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty suspension bolts last tightened 40 years ago by someone in Abingdon, Oxfordshire, and rounds them off. "
22:18 katsmeow-afk or twists off the bolts holding the starter
22:18 katsmeow-afk twists off exhaust manifold bolts
22:24 furrywolf I've never twisted off starter bolts, but exhaust bolts... I usually figure anything involving exhaust work will require replacing every fastener, complete with drilling and tapping any expensive parts. then I'm usually not disappointed. sadly, I'm rarely surprised, either...
22:26 tsmeow-afk knows the fee
22:32 furrywolf Whats included:
22:32 furrywolf * Xantrex prosine 3.0/12
22:32 furrywolf * remote control panel
22:32 furrywolf * remote control panel cable
22:32 furrywolf * battery temperature sensor
22:32 furrywolf * screws and misc parts needed to re-assemble the unit.
22:32 furrywolf * Schematics!! (you will not find these anywhere else)
22:32 furrywolf lol
22:34 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/XANTREX-PROSINE-3-0-SINE-WAVE-POWER-INVERTER-12V-BATTERY-CHARGER-tie-solar-grid-/230823085461?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35be20c595
22:34 furrywolf I suspect he is not going to sell it at that price. :)
22:36 katsmeow-afk This auction is for a non functional Xantrex ProSine
22:37 furrywolf for only $50 more than the last working one sold for.
22:38 katsmeow-afk ouch
22:46 furrywolf he has two of them. I'm going to offer him $50+shipping for both of them. :P
22:47 furrywolf I suspect I won't get them, but you never know...
22:47 tsmeow-afk
22:47 katsmeow-afk i wonder why he has two, and if the problem is one he made, or a routine issue in those convertors
22:49 furrywolf he seems to be a repair-type person
22:49 katsmeow-afk lets say he just blew the first one.. "woo a new way to blow up pricey equipment", and he pick up the next one, and blows it the same way too?
22:49 furrywolf probably bought them on ebay, broken, with the intention of fixing and reselling.
22:50 furrywolf now realizing he paid too much, they're hard to fix, and he wants his money back.
22:50 katsmeow-afk so two witht he same problem, i'd say that'sa weak point in that model
22:50 furrywolf no, the other complains of a communication error on the display, while getting further in the powering-up process.
22:52 katsmeow-afk i did a lil figurng on an anftermarket wayt o make sine from a squarewave output, and sadly, i got a 50% reduction in wattage converting it to sine, just to be somewhat sure i wasn't going to blow up the squarewave convertor
22:52 katsmeow-afk i figure no one will buy a since convertor from me that going to cut their available power in half
22:54 katsmeow-afk there's also the grounding-neutral issue
22:55 katsmeow-afk if i need to have the neutral from the squarewave off gnd, then they can't use it for anythign else, and it becomes a shock hazzard
22:56 katsmeow-afk plus, the easier and safer i make it for idiots, the more expensive and heavier it gets
22:56 furrywolf neutral should always be tied to ground, unless you're doing a fancy balanced setup, in which case it's more like you have +/-60, rather than a neutral...
22:57 katsmeow-afk unless i have them physically place the modified convertor inside mine, where they cannot touch it, but that still doesn't address the possibility their neutral isn't batery negative
22:58 katsmeow-afk if i use their squarewave as gnd neutral, then i get a far more limited power source
23:01 furrywolf grrr, I fucking hate ebay's character limit on emails... actually, I fucking hate ebay's entire new communications system, that forces all communications through them...
23:02 katsmeow-afk any way i look at it, i haveto count on the amps*volts being cut in half converting from that square wave to sine, i just can't promise any better
23:03 katsmeow-afk anything else requires too much money
23:03 furrywolf where are you dissipating half the power?
23:04 katsmeow-afk i'm not, really
23:04 katsmeow-afk but neither do i want to spend money storing it
23:05 furrywolf well, it has to go somewhere... if you're getting out half the power you put in, something is getting very hot. :)
23:06 katsmeow-afk to explain real y simply, if i supply a sine only when the squarewave is supplying power, then the peak of the sine on top of the current coming from the squarewave convertor is going to pull .7x more amps at the peak of the sine
23:07 furrywolf which will have been stored in inductors from the time where the square is higher than the sine should be?
23:07 katsmeow-afk .7x more amps is the minimum, there's more losses associated with the sine starting earlier and ending later than the square wave
23:07 katsmeow-afk no
23:08 katsmeow-afk the square is never putting out as much power when the sine needs it
23:08 katsmeow-afk except at a couple very narrow slices in time
23:08 katsmeow-afk plus, if i cannot float the neutral, i haveto build the same circuit in reverse (pnp/npn) for the bottom swing of the sine
23:09 furrywolf oh, you're trying to convert an actual square wave, not a modified sine?
23:09 furrywolf modified sine inverters are standard these days; nothing puts out an actual square anymore...
23:09 katsmeow-afk or, i haveto use transformers bigger than in the squarewave convertor that's feeding my circuit, at which point i might as well just make a 2vdc-120vac sne convertor fromt eh ground up
23:09 katsmeow-afk modified sine IS a squarewave
23:10 furrywolf it's a square wave with seperate + and - pulses about an actual neutral.
23:10 katsmeow-afk yeas
23:10 katsmeow-afk and lots of dead time in between
23:10 furrywolf so I'm not sure how you'd end up needing to invert it yourself to get a neutral...
23:10 rue_mohr ooooooooooooooooo today I'll get the fancy 3d goggles
23:12 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/invertors.html
23:13 rue_mohr sweet.
23:13 katsmeow-afk hmm?
23:13 furrywolf email sent. I bet he says no, probably in a rude fashion. :P
23:15 katsmeow-afk yeas, i got raked over coal for asking about combining shipping, the selelr says that's the only way he can make money is to hope some moron didn't notice the hugh s&h fees on the 99 cent item
23:15 katsmeow-afk </paraphrasing>
23:15 furrywolf I avoid those sellers.
23:16 furrywolf I have purchased items for higher prices from other sellers, just because the other seller had an honest shipping charge with a high item price, rather than hiding the price in the shipping...
23:18 katsmeow-afk well, the seller was so pissed he said he'd ship the purchased item soon as i paid for it and to not buy anythign else from him, or he'd just cancel all sales
23:18 katsmeow-afk i said fine, cancel, and i'll quit watching and cancel my bids
23:18 furrywolf heh
23:18 katsmeow-afk then he got all appolojectic
23:18 katsmeow-afk i still won't buy from him again
23:19 katsmeow-afk too hot a temper, and poor packaging
23:21 rue_mohr $1 items, buyit now, free shipping
23:21 rue_mohr like
23:21 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Plastic-Practical-Black-Electric-Conduit-10mm-Diameter-Corrugated-Tube-Hot-/120829377717?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c21fdfcb5
23:21 rue_mohr or
23:21 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-Glass-Fuse-6x30mm-20A-250V-Fast-Blow-Free-Shipping-/180522569523?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a07fbcf33
23:21 rue_mohr or
23:21 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/EXTENDED-1500-mAh-BATTERY-SAMSUNG-S5560-MARVEL-/250935689015?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item3a6ceebf37
23:22 rue_mohr or
23:22 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-2x-Pack-Full-Range-1-14-pH-Test-Paper-Litmus-2x80-160-Strips-color-chart-/330734885152?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0155d920
23:22 rue_mohr or
23:22 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Tri-wing-Triangle-Screw-Driver-NDS-NDSL-GBA-SP-Wii-E008A-/130646444483?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item1e6b2289c3
23:22 rue_mohr you get the idea
23:23 furrywolf I buy things I need, rather than buying random items on a set schedule. :P
23:23 rue_mohr +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
23:23 rue_mohr 23
23:23 rue_mohr kitty says hi
23:24 rue_mohr its only $356 a year
23:29 furrywolf "only"
23:35 furrywolf meh... I really screwed up at work.
23:35 furrywolf at least, I think I did. I don't remember doing so, but it's by far the most likely answer.
23:44 rrywolf curls back up on katsmeow-afk in a very unhappy wolfy
23:45 rue_mohr year
23:51 katsmeow-afk whyhow?
23:53 tsmeow-afk ponders the woman on tv with lots of eyeliner and lipliner makeup, and thinks she needs noseliner, jawlineliner, and foreheadliner
23:54 katsmeow-afk "these are my eyes, here, i'll draw circlies around them to show you where they are.. and here's my lips, i'll circle those too, and here's my nose, let my draw lines around that too........"