#robotics Logs
Jul 07 2012
#robotics Calendar
00:00 theBear it is INERRITABLE !
00:00 ace4016 irritable?
00:00 katsmeow-afk i tried to open the section on functions the humans entered, but they found oevr 28,000 ways of things interacting, and xp was taking hours to opent he folder, i gave up,,,, but i doubt there was a function related to enjoying peeing
00:00 furrywolf theBear: how's the idiot factor in ##electronics lately?
00:00 theBear dunno, been away almost a month until yesterday
00:01 furrywolf katsmeow-afk: don't ever google "golden showers" :P
00:01 ace4016 lol
00:01 katsmeow-afk "lets all get together tomorrow for a good pee"
00:01 katsmeow-afk i know of the hankie code :-P
00:01 theBear "mmmm... golden shower sounds nice.... i like gold, and i like showers.... mmm yeah" "maybe if you're lucky granddad, santa will give you a golden shower for christmas" "ooooh yeah, santa my man !"
00:02 ace4016 some people like having the excuse of going to the bathroom. some people enjoy the feeling that peeing has; the sometimes orgasmic feeling
00:02 theBear i've known of the code for years now, still find it hard to comprehened that it goes on tho :)
00:02 katsmeow-afk "what you got planned for the weekend" "i dunno, was thinking of doing some long enjoyable peeing on Sunday"
00:02 furrywolf katsmeow-afk: trust me, people do that.
00:02 katsmeow-afk lol
00:02 theBear err, continent people ? <grin>
00:03 furrywolf people like being peed on, peeing on people, peeing in diapers,...
00:03 ace4016 peeing in general
00:03 theBear hehe
00:03 ace4016 it's like people that enjoy good poops
00:03 theBear i thought that was everyone :)
00:03 furrywolf except for those with piles.
00:03 katsmeow-afk and such data really should be one of the first things an Ai learns about humans
00:03 ace4016 hehe
00:03 theBear tho i gotta admit, some seem to take the fondness to a whole different level to what i can comprehend
00:04 theBear ^^ not 'dirty' btw
00:05 katsmeow-afk yea,, but daiper pooping is of necessity "dirty" , no?
00:06 theBear once again, damn you ambiguous language !
00:06 katsmeow-afk if containment in the diaper is a way to keep your personal product from getting away, then why would you share it with someone else?
00:07 ace4016 if robots could comprehend humans and were on their first foray into understanding humans, they'd find that we are very violent and sexual creatures with the ability to destroy everything around us
00:07 theBear who can say ? i mean, i'm err, let's say open minded about these things, but i still can't get my head around that kinda thing
00:07 katsmeow-afk ability hell, many strive to destroy
00:07 theBear ace4016, nay, the NEED to destroy it :)
00:08 ace4016 the desire :P
00:09 furrywolf I love anal sex, and like being nice and squeaky clean for it... no idea how people would like the exact opposite.
00:09 theBear stupid viral-related-illness :( everything seems too hard
00:10 katsmeow-afk ambiguous language !
00:10 theBear furrywolf, all depends if they are interested in one of my favourite terms, good old snerd nergling :) but yeah, personally i prefer to be towards the cleaner end of the spectrum for that kinda thing, being practical of course and remembering these are multi use areas, like those pathways that both bikes and pedestrians can use, kinda :)
00:10 eBear gig
00:11 furrywolf lol
00:11 theBear ahh yeah, "dual use pathway" ... that's the term in vogue these days
00:11 katsmeow-afk then you really do need to get a clean water system installed furry
00:11 katsmeow-afk in more ambiguous ways than one?
00:12 katsmeow-afk <whew> LoRez has been idle 29hrs 1min 6secs
00:12 eBear giggles a
00:12 LoRez whew?
00:12 katsmeow-afk oops
00:12 theBear lol
00:13 ace4016 alerted!
00:13 ace4016 :P
00:13 katsmeow-afk hmmmmmmm "Statistics of natural movements are reflected in motor errors
00:15 katsmeow-afk two storms are gonn amiss me again, one went north, one went south
00:15 katsmeow-afk one earlier dissipated
00:16 furrywolf the rain mostly went away here, but it's still cold and cloudy.
00:18 furrywolf snerd nergling?
00:19 theBear erm um, probly not the kinda term that wants definition here
00:20 furrywolf lol
00:21 katsmeow-afk not according to google
00:23 furrywolf ... eww. heh.
00:27 theBear hmm.... anyone do much php ? maybe got a favourite 'trick' for turning a flat/csv file into a ring buffer (overwriting line by line with some limit vs appending) ? never done fs access in php like that before
00:27 theBear is there a write-to-line built-in maybe, or i gotta do something ugly like load to array and rewrite the whole file ?
00:28 katsmeow-afk append one line, delete the first one
00:28 theBear ooh, i can do that ? awesome...
00:28 katsmeow-afk you mean you haveto store the ring in a file?
00:28 furrywolf I think he's asking how to do that. :P
00:29 furrywolf what is the end goal of what you're trying to do?
00:29 theBear yeah, i finally setup a little test/landing page for this phone-app that just POST's a bunch of handy info regularly, like batt % and gps coordinates etc... thinking i don't really need to know where i was EVERY X mins, just keep i dunno, a week or something in a ring incase of emergency
00:30 theBear then again, i was thinking of moving the sql server onto that machine, feels a little overkill tho
00:30 katsmeow-afk oh in that case, you have gobs of space, just append for a week then trim off the top of the file down to a certan filesize
00:30 furrywolf read/write from file-todaysdate.whatever, then have a cronjob delete files over a week old.
00:31 theBear hmmm..... both good answers.... but being regular, and assuming there's a nice easy php command to trim the top of a file, a ring sounds neater (no external config to remember when i come back years later :)
00:33 katsmeow-afk well, if you must use files, gets() once and discard, then gets the reast of the file and save to a new name, append the new data, close, and delete the old file
00:33 furrywolf there's no easy way to trim the top of the file, as there's no filesystem that does this.
00:33 furrywolf it's an inherent part of how filesystems work... if you want to remove anything that's not exactly a block, you need read and rewrite the entire file.
00:34 katsmeow-afk furry, reverse it, trimm the bottom, reverse it again ;-)
00:34 furrywolf and since no filesystem I'm aware of exposes removing a block to the user...
00:34 GuShH theBear: how did I end up watching this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1WKYmx4i1Q
00:34 katsmeow-afk you can edit the fat to point into the file, same effect
00:34 furrywolf if you have a fixed record size, then you can do it by overwriting the file in a ring
00:34 katsmeow-afk cannot do it in high level languages tho, afaik
00:35 furrywolf katsmeow-afk: and that'd still only be whole-block units.
00:35 Triffid_Hunter theBear: I hope the line length is constant..
00:35 katsmeow-afk not sure it would need to be 512byte blocks
00:35 theBear Triffid_Hunter, don't hope that <grin>
00:35 furrywolf store some metadata about how big the buffer is and where you are in the ring, then use a fixed record size, offset to position*size+metadata, write new data there.
00:35 Triffid_Hunter theBear: if not, just logrotate
00:36 Triffid_Hunter theBear: write a new file every day, delete any that are 7 days old..
00:36 theBear i suppose i could pad stuff, oh, damned getting all perfectioney and academic 'cos i haven't programmed for too long :)
00:36 furrywolf Triffid_Hunter: that's what I said!
00:36 katsmeow-afk Triffid_Hunter, that's what furry said
00:36 furrywolf lol
00:36 Triffid_Hunter ah right
00:36 Triffid_Hunter serves me right for jumping in at the end.. see that as two votes for the same method
00:37 theBear anyone know a handy source for huge non-online (ala google api) maps with lat/long ref's so i can do a novelty map tracking page ?
00:37 Triffid_Hunter theBear: I presume that openstreetmaps have downloadable data sets
00:37 theBear ahh of course, i should lookup those dudes
00:38 furrywolf theBear: there's some wiki/open/whatever project, but in general, map data is proprietary. you might check with the government mapping service in your area. (usgs, etc)
00:38 theBear don't need anything too fancy, for a start just a hi res map of the city/metro area here and knowing the lat/long at all 4 corners should be easy enough
00:38 furrywolf gps makes like charging you for their map files.
00:38 furrywolf makers
00:39 theBear mmm, come to think of it, the govt mapping service in THIS state is amazing, when google maps was just starting out you could already tell if yer gutters were blocked with this sucker
00:39 theBear but still, that doesn't mean it's easy to dload
00:40 theBear maybe i should just be a big girl and borrow a google map... suppose i can always superimpose the markers over the map image, and just use the api calls to find x-y on image for a given lat/long
00:40 katsmeow-afk <cough>
00:40 theBear sorry, bad habits, you know i don't mean it like that :)
00:41 theBear don't worry, i also casually use insults that should offend me regularly :)
00:41 theBear "oh, i made myself sad again" <grin>
00:41 katsmeow-afk Extracts & Mirrors
00:41 katsmeow-afk The complete planet is very large,
00:41 katsmeow-afk Latest Weekly Planet File
00:41 katsmeow-afk 21 GB, created 3 weeks ago.
00:42 theBear hmm... what is err, in a planet file ?
00:42 theBear hehe, latest weekly, 3weeks ago
00:44 e_mohr goes back to thinking about the meaning of the universe while brushing his t
00:44 rue_mohr theBear, you should come vaccation in canada sometime
00:45 katsmeow-afk <cough>
00:46 rue_mohr :) you to
00:46 katsmeow-afk ok, but i am not into the same things bears are into
00:49 rue_mohr !time
00:49 tobbor My watch says its 22:46 Fri Jul 06 2012
00:49 rue_mohr uh
00:49 rue_mohr odd
00:50 theBear i aint that kinda bear :)
00:53 katsmeow-afk i had to look up what you said!
00:53 theBear err, hey ?
00:53 katsmeow-afk www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snerd%20Nurgling
00:53 theBear oh <grin>
00:54 rue_mohr http://johnbiehler.com/tag/makerfaire/
00:54 theBear ooh, sorry re: spelling, tbh, i don't write it very often
00:55 rrywolf curls up on katsmeow-afk for bed
00:57 katsmeow-afk that's a lot of makers
00:57 theBear that's a lotta 3d printing going on ... nice
00:58 rue_mohr apparently 17 machines
00:58 rue_mohr I thought there were about 12
00:58 theBear that was just one stall i thought, but i aint gonner read it all again :)
00:59 rue_mohr yes
00:59 rue_mohr there were two other booths... no 3 that also had printers
01:06 katsmeow-afk Wiktionary does not yet have an entry for pvc.
01:06 katsmeow-afk Did you mean PVC?
01:07 katsmeow-afk http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/PVC
01:10 furrywolf bbl, wolfy bedtime
01:13 katsmeow-afk me too
01:14 katsmeow-afk my brain shutt off an hr ao,, "reading" i sm aking no sense
01:18 rrywolf tucks katsmeow-afk in, then curls up on top of
01:25 e_mohr tries to think about how to make the adapters he needs for the bear
01:27 ferdna rue_mohr, what bearings?
01:27 rue_mohr I bought the right bearings for the wrong pipe
01:28 rue_mohr the bearings I got were supposed to be a press fit for 1/2" EMT pipe
01:28 rue_mohr they are a press fit, but not for EMT
01:29 theBear right bearings for the wrong pipe ? rue .... that hurts my brain !
01:29 rue_mohr they perfectly fit pipe I dont have
01:30 theBear wouldn't that make them the wrong bearings ? i mean, the only way to get wronger would be if they were i dunno, 45deg needle bearings :)
01:30 rue_mohr they fit the pipe I measured,
01:30 rue_mohr which was not the pipe I meant to measure
01:31 rue_mohr the OD of the pipe I measured was 3/4"
01:31 rue_mohr the OD of the pipe I want to use is 18mm
01:32 rue_mohr 3/4" is 19mm
01:32 rue_mohr sounds a lot closer than it is
01:37 ferdna rue_mohr, and dont break your head on how to make them... just buy them off the internet...
01:37 ferdna everything is in the internets
01:37 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, whats the name of that ball bearing store you had?
01:37 ferdna there is mcmaster
01:38 rue_mohr what bearing models have 18mm ID?
01:38 ferdna idk... good night.
01:38 rue_mohr gnght
01:48 katsmeow-afk fastenal
01:48 katsmeow-afk then that one on ebay that has almost every small bearing in production
01:48 rue_mohr it looks like there is no bearing made with an 18mm id
01:48 katsmeow-afk what is 18mm in inches?
01:49 rue_mohr .7
01:50 katsmeow-afk i can't get a browser window open :-/
01:50 rue_mohr :)
01:50 rue_mohr its not a made size...
01:51 katsmeow-afk why happy? no browser = i can't help you
01:51 rue_mohr technology always beaks down when ya need it
01:51 rue_mohr I find it amusing
01:51 rue_mohr it even happens to the best of us
01:52 rue_mohr its indiscriminant of what your paid, happened to mr gates
01:52 theBear i like to think as the years go on that it hapens less to me... otherwise, what have i been doing with my life ? :)
01:53 katsmeow-afk Wiseco Small Top End Bearing 18 X 23 X 21.8mm Polaris Suzuki Yamaha
01:53 katsmeow-afk ergo it is made
01:53 rue_mohr oo
01:53 rue_mohr your sure the 18 is id?
01:53 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=%2218x%22+mm+bearing+-%22x18x%22&_sacat=0&_odkw=%2218x%22+mm+bearing&_osacat=0
01:53 rue_mohr ah yes, but not as a ball bearing
01:54 katsmeow-afk NOVELLUS 33-0002-003 BALL BEARING, 18X30X7MM
01:54 rue_mohr its a common size for needle bearings
01:54 rue_mohr ?
01:54 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOVELLUS-33-0002-003-BALL-BEARING-18X30X7MM-/160586333540?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2563b0fd64
01:54 e_mohr squ
01:55 rue_mohr uh
01:55 katsmeow-afk i think they measured that wrong
01:55 rue_mohr $120 ea...
01:56 katsmeow-afk fastenal skips from 17mm to 20mm
01:56 rue_mohr yea
01:56 katsmeow-afk get a slightly larger bearing and shim it?
01:57 rue_mohr maybe I have to wait to finish my 3d printer and make adapters
01:59 katsmeow-afk what was wrong with http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wiseco-Top-End-Bearing-18x23x21-8mm-Part-B1014-Arctic-Cat-Polaris-Yamaha-/261049290072
02:18 rue_mohr B1014
02:18 rue_mohr hmm
02:19 rue_mohr its a pin bearing
02:19 katsmeow-afk o
02:20 rue_mohr http://img01.static-nextag.com/image/WISECO-Wrist-Pin-Bearing/10/000/007/796/766/779676671.jpg
02:20 rue_mohr good find tho
02:20 katsmeow-afk "wrist pin" != "top end"
02:21 rue_mohr at a guess the od of a ball bearing with a 18mmid would be about 28 or larger...
02:22 rue_mohr I think I'm losing my state of consiosness
02:22 rue_mohr I hate that
02:23 katsmeow-afk zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
02:23 e_mohr watches the zs jump over the s
02:23 rue_mohr uh, thats not right
02:24 katsmeow-afk zzzzzzzz__elephants__zzzzzzz
02:24 katsmeow-afk gnites
02:25 rue_mohr I wish I were fully concious more often
02:41 theBear i have wished that, but not very often
04:28 The_jester greets
04:38 rizlah o/
06:39 sw0rdfish Hello.
09:17 furrywolf meh, not nearly enough sleep last night. :(
09:17 rrywolf curls up next to katsmeow-afk and s
09:19 tsmeow-afk sighs
09:19 katsmeow-afk every lil storm went around me all nite, and another one is about to also
09:20 furrywolf that's a bad thing? or are you hoping for them to bring water?
09:20 Tom_itx do you want them so your creek will fill?
09:20 tsmeow-afk
09:22 furrywolf also, meh, slugs got another pepper plant. :(
09:22 katsmeow-afk even an inch of rain directly on the pool-tank is another 132 gallons
09:24 katsmeow-afk right this minute, the storm i have my eye on is moving so slowly, if i wait it prolly won't hit, but if i go down and set up pump, the pump motor may get waterlogged in rain
09:24 katsmeow-afk if i wait, the temperature goes up
09:24 Tom_itx furrywolf, slip a plastic or paper ring around the stem
09:24 katsmeow-afk the mosquitoes come out en force
09:25 furrywolf piece of plywood, bucket, plastic tub, ...
09:25 furrywolf Tom_itx: and that'll do... what?
09:25 katsmeow-afk puts 1/4" mesh around the plants
09:25 Tom_itx salt them
09:25 Tom_itx :)
09:25 katsmeow-afk furry, and if the pump is in the creek?
09:25 furrywolf then you need a longer suction line.
09:25 katsmeow-afk salt eventually kills the soil too
09:26 katsmeow-afk i know, i ned lots, i did as fast as i could with what i had
09:26 furrywolf have anything that floats?
09:26 katsmeow-afk there's a huge rock down there i wanna mount pumps on, it's like 12ft long, 3ft thick, 6ft wide
09:26 katsmeow-afk trying to figure how to attach to it
09:27 furrywolf if you have a floating object, set the pump on it, and tether the pressure line well.
09:27 katsmeow-afk it would be ~4ft above lowest water level at that point, maybe 10ft if i run a suction line down to the pool furtehr 80ft downstream
09:27 Tom_itx drill into it and hammer in some anchor bolts
09:27 Tom_itx if you can
09:28 furrywolf hammer drill + anchors, or wire brush it then epoxy mounts to it... drilling is better, gluing is less drilling.
09:28 katsmeow-afk Tom, that's the obvious, and very noisey, remember the neighbors had me arrested for a common window fan 200ft from the property line
09:28 furrywolf 10ft is getting to be a lot of suction head, and will reduce flow.
09:28 katsmeow-afk i know
09:29 Tom_itx take a jackhammer and shotgun with you
09:29 katsmeow-afk not the 22?
09:29 Tom_itx err hammerdrill
09:29 Tom_itx oh hell no
09:29 Tom_itx asault rifle
09:30 katsmeow-afk i don't have a rotary hammer, got the massive jackhammer and the 2-handed demolition hammer
09:31 furrywolf if you get good glue, you can mount things pretty well... consider that highly reflectors last years of being driven over.
09:31 furrywolf highway
09:32 theBear yeah, those highway and city floor-grip guys have some AMAZING glues
09:32 katsmeow-afk that spray foam makes a great adhesive, it lasts years in sun outside too
09:32 theBear best industrial kinda glue i've used for flatout strength is black + white (50/50 mix) epoxy in a 2 tube gluegun with a little vortex mixey nozzle on the front... that stuff just sticks and goes rock hard, afaict forever :)
09:33 katsmeow-afk i sprayfomaed some mirror to some steel some 12 yrs ago, it's still stuck together
09:33 theBear for light stuff that modern white generic gap-filler gun-glue is amazing.... i've put up cornices with it quicker than with real cornice cement (but easier to apply and cleanup etc etc)
09:35 tsmeow-afk
09:35 theBear and something like 2 bucks a tube, can't go wrong :)
09:35 theBear handy for slightly wobbly architraves too <grin>
09:36 katsmeow-afk architraves?
09:37 katsmeow-afk ah
09:37 furrywolf ?
09:38 katsmeow-afk furry, a dolmen or lintel beam
09:38 katsmeow-afk __lintel beam__
09:39 katsmeow-afk || ||
09:39 furrywolf yeah, I know what a lintel beam is.
09:39 katsmeow-afk k
09:39 furrywolf no idea what an architrave is, though.
09:39 katsmeow-afk i never heard that word before either, but it's the same thing
09:40 furrywolf hrmm, decorative stone lintel
09:40 furrywolf there's no stone architecture around here, so I'm generally unfamiliar with stone/masonry terms. :)
09:41 furrywolf come to think of it, other than the windowless cinderblock cube that houses the telco center, I'm not sure I've seen a stone or brick building around here...
09:42 katsmeow-afk so make some : http://designerthinking.com/images/house/cement%20arch.jpg
09:43 furrywolf you occasionally see houses with brick walls, but it's attached to a timber frame, not the main structual element.
09:46 katsmeow-afk brick may offers some protection, but it's not a cohesive unit with any tensile strength of it's own
09:47 rue_bed think of a movie, with stone block walls, sometimes the windows are done with big long stone blocks over them
09:48 katsmeow-afk like the window in http://designerthinking.com/images/house/DSCF0948.jpg ?
09:48 rue_bed prolly
09:48 rue_bed cant open browser here
09:49 katsmeow-afk or the 3 windows in http://designerthinking.com/images/house/IMG_0592.JPG
09:49 rue_bed I tried to find more ram for this laptop, but its EXTREMELY pickey
09:50 rue_bed the ram in it is the only ram that works
09:50 rue_bed 128M
09:50 katsmeow-afk just fill it with chips, close it up, let it take it's pick
09:50 rue_bed tried that
09:50 rue_bed :)
09:50 rue_bed it just coughed them all up
09:50 katsmeow-afk hmm
09:50 rue_bed 100mhz, not 166, positivly not 66
09:51 katsmeow-afk that storm has dissipated and dropped south of me, it is not coming here
09:51 rue_bed it hung on every 128M and 256M module I gave it
09:51 rue_bed good good
09:51 Tom_itx no no
09:51 Tom_itx she want's it
09:51 rue_bed is it tornado season for you up there now?
09:52 Tom_itx hurricane
09:52 katsmeow-afk not good, i wanted the water from it, i got TREES dying here now, and grass
09:52 rue_bed already?
09:52 katsmeow-afk supposed to be hurricane season, but there aren't any
09:52 Tom_itx mine would be too
09:52 rue_bed we have had 3 days of sun in a row now, this is awesome
09:53 katsmeow-afk guy up the road lost a couple dozen small pine he planted, i have dogwoods and poplars and a few pines with no leaves
09:53 rue_bed the yard is actually starting to drain
09:53 Tom_itx ok i might have .030 clearance between the hub and the sensor if i use this encoder: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/stepper6.jpg
09:53 katsmeow-afk the grass is crunchy
09:53 Tom_itx the hub has to be 1"
09:54 katsmeow-afk why must it has to be?
09:54 Tom_itx for the bolt heads to fit between the edge and shaft
09:54 Tom_itx i'm only gonna use 3 on this though
09:54 katsmeow-afk o
09:55 Tom_itx i could try to find some 2-56 but i don't like them
09:56 katsmeow-afk make the hub thin enough, use #14 copper as rivets?
09:57 furrywolf meh, I'm in the mood to go to yard sales, but my car is approaching useless until I get the new engine in it, and my truck gets 6mpg.
09:57 katsmeow-afk i should go water the plants on the roof before the sun hits harder, and then go set up a pump at the creek, try and figure a permanent mounting
09:58 katsmeow-afk bbl
09:58 furrywolf cyas
10:01 furrywolf I might need to borrow a vehicle if I can't get the engine in my car pretty soon... or rent one on craigslist. (that is, buy, drive, re-sell before reg expires...)
10:03 furrywolf driving my truck around with no load is hideously expensive.
10:04 rue_mohr furrywolf, convert it to electric
10:04 rue_mohr use a bank of vaccuumcleaner motors
10:05 furrywolf that sounds like a pretty bad idea.
10:05 furrywolf I've been thinking of converting it to diesel.
10:05 rue_mohr why?
10:05 furrywolf replace the stock I6 with an International 7.3L diesel.
10:07 rue_mohr per output watt, electricity is cheaper
10:08 m_itx feels rue_mohr's fishing store is gonna run outta fishing line
10:09 furrywolf rue_mohr: each watt of electricity I use is free, if you ignore the huge capital cost of panels, the ongoing battery costs,...
10:10 rue_mohr how much power is 30000rpm at 40kg-cm?
10:12 rue_mohr hmm that cant be right
10:13 furrywolf You have: 40 kg gravity cm 30000/min
10:13 furrywolf You want: watts
10:13 furrywolf * 1961.33
10:13 rue_mohr oh you say gravity
10:14 furrywolf I'm assuming you're using kg as a measure of force, rather than mass, which would need a factor of gravity...
10:14 furrywolf otherwise use newtons
10:14 rue_mohr so I guess that a vacuum cleaner motors can put out 4kw
10:15 rue_mohr odd
10:15 rue_mohr maybe it was 10krpm
10:15 rue_mohr no I'm pretty sure it was 30k
10:16 rue_mohr 10k gives a more reasonable number of 1.5kw
10:16 rue_mohr 10k @ 15kg*cm
10:16 rue_mohr car engine runs up to maybe 3000 rpm
10:17 rue_mohr so 3:1 reduction
10:17 rue_mohr so how many foot-lbs from your old engine when it was new?
10:18 furrywolf 198 ftlbs
10:18 rue_mohr ok
10:18 rue_mohr how many 45kg*cm motors do we need for 190 foot-lbs?
10:19 rue_mohr You have: 190 foot*lbs
10:19 rue_mohr You want: kg*cm
10:19 rue_mohr * 2626.8441
10:19 rue_mohr ?
10:19 furrywolf more than one, which makes this an utterly worthless idea. :P
10:19 rue_mohr I get 58
10:20 rue_mohr so 58 vacuum cleaner mtoors would be the ideal replacement for an engine
10:20 furrywolf You have: 190 ft lb
10:20 furrywolf You want: 45 kg cm
10:20 furrywolf * 58.374314
10:20 furrywolf "ideal" is not a term I would use.
10:20 rue_mohr each motor takes up about 0.003375m^3
10:21 rue_mohr so you need about .2m^3 for them all
10:21 rue_mohr each one weighs ....
10:21 furrywolf the engine I plan on putting in is 360ftlbs
10:21 theBear did somebody say classic pillar and lintel construction ?
10:22 eBear is quite fond of all-brick ho
10:23 theBear sorry, was in the kitchen... architraves are the trim around doors and windows ... the kinda picture-frame-esque bit that covers the gap between the actual frame and the wall
10:23 rue_shop 1.4kg!
10:23 theBear indeed, i concur
10:24 rue_mohr so the whole motor would weigh bit over 81kg
10:24 furrywolf rue_mohr: now, what would the batteries weigh, for the equivalent of 50gals of diesel?
10:25 furrywolf and how about the linkage to connect 58 motors to a single shaft? figure you'd only get 75% efficiency, so use 80 motors.
10:25 rue_mohr 58 vacuum cleaner motors, 81kg, 3:1 reduction, 190 foot*lbs "max" being their electric motors, you could get 360foot*lbs if you push it
10:26 theBear diesel ? 58 ? lotta trucks got almost that many wheels anyway
10:26 rue_mohr furrywolf, pile the engine, full fuel tank, cooling system, exhaust system, tell me how much that all weighs
10:27 furrywolf rue_mohr: a quarter (or less) of what the batteries would weigh.
10:27 rue_mohr cause I want to know how much room I have for powering it with AA batteries
10:27 furrywolf theBear: ignore rue, he seems to be on more drugs than usual today.
10:27 rue_mohr no I'm serious
10:27 theBear furrywolf, mmm, yer not the first person that's mentioned it to me... hmmm
10:27 rue_mohr there is an S10 for sale, $750, maybe I should try tyis
10:28 furrywolf theBear: he seems to have decided 58 vacuum cleaner motors is the ideal method of making an electric vehicle, rather than one large motor.
10:28 furrywolf this requires lots of drugs.
10:29 rue_mohr the high-rpm motors are more efficient
10:29 rue_mohr and can be obtained really cheap
10:29 rue_mohr series would motor, they put out a lot of torque at even 12V
10:29 rue_mohr wound
10:30 theBear woah, yeah, that DOES require a lot of drugs
10:30 theBear rue_mohr, ever felt the exhaust on a vacuum ? high revs might be efficient, but those motors are NOT efficient
10:30 rue_mohr I'LL SHOW YOU! I'LL SHOW YOU ALL! I'LL DO IT AND __PROVE__ ME RIGHT!
10:30 rue_mohr right...after...every....other project....
10:30 theBear <grin>
10:31 theBear it's ok buddy, i don't htink yer crazy, yet :)
10:32 furrywolf meh, I want to go to yard sales... probably should just load up a bunch of water and oil in the back of my car.
10:33 rue_mohr you dont ever get all that power out of your engine anyhow
10:33 rue_mohr your prolly usually in the bottom 1/3
10:33 furrywolf LOL
10:34 furrywolf it's a large, heavy, very non-aerodynamic vehicle.
10:34 furrywolf it has cruise control... you put your foot all the way down, and you go 55-60mph depending on wind direction.
10:35 theBear mmm... to be fair a car does put out more heat than a vacuum... but probably not more than 58 of them :)
10:35 furrywolf this is why it gets such bad gas milage... the engine is working at 100% full-time, where it's least efficient.
10:38 furrywolf I've heard of people getting more than twice the gas milage after swapping in a larger engine...
10:42 furrywolf other people who've put in the engine I plan on putting in got ~18mpg, much, much better than the 6-10 I get now.
10:53 lolzie Hi guys, I want to create a little system where I can have an array of transceivers of some sort attached to various keychains, inside wallets etc. in my room. And one transceiver that is used to locate each of the others
10:54 lolzie Which hardware would this practically involve? I'm very new to this kind of stuff. This is inspired by my ongoing struggle to find items that I know are in the same room as me
10:55 theBear lolzie, what about just a beacon style approach ? the 'finder' is basically a little radio receiver, maybe with a directional antenna, and the others regularly do something like beep, only with a radio
10:58 lolzie theBear: that sounds about right; so that'd be 1 radio receiver, directional antenna (perhaps), and a few radio transmitters
10:58 theBear yeah, all very basic ones
10:58 lolzie I haven't done any electronics at all before, would each of the radio transmitters need to be physically plugged into a chip or something? And I'm guessing the receiver will need to be plugged into some sort of chip with location-finding logic
10:59 theBear ever seen a telecom guy use a 'warbler' to trace a cable ? that's basically identical, but with short range and not-so-directional antenna/pickup... actually a quick browse for a few "contactless cable tracer"s or "diy warbler circuit" kinda stuff might be handy
11:00 theBear ahh, no electronics doesn't help, but we're talking maybe a tiny chip or 2 and/or a handful of transistors and resistors and caps... VERY simple as far as radio stuff goes
11:02 furrywolf why not put a table by the door, and make a point that your keys and wallets never get set anywhere else, so you don't need a complicated electronic solution to find them? :)
11:02 rue_mohr no its just a current limited oscillator
11:02 rue_mohr the trick is in the pickup
11:02 rue_mohr its an electrostatic pickup
11:02 rue_mohr we call them toners
11:03 theBear you paying attention rue ? we want this to work across a room comfortably
11:03 lolzie furrywolf: hahaha! unfortunately life never works out that way where I end up remembering to leave everything together in the same place, if only!!
11:03 rue_mohr the phone ones give you 1.5m AT BEST if you set it up really well and have a GOOD ear
11:04 rue_mohr that said, you walk under a high tension line with the pickup and it saturates with signal
11:04 furrywolf get a random solenoid coil, a bridge rectifier, a capacitor, and a piezo beeper. install in all items you wish to find, especially wallets and computers. walk around with an ac degausser, and use it to find the things that start beeping.
11:05 lolzie What I'd love is to create something where on an lcd screen I can make a little radar appear showing the relative location of all the other items/radios
11:05 rue_mohr you want to know if the other are in range or actually locate them
11:06 rue_mohr lolzie,
11:06 rue_mohr I havn't assembled one of these yet
11:07 rue_mohr !assist circuits
11:07 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/circuits
11:07 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/circuits/car-locator.jpg
11:07 lolzie Actually locate
11:07 furrywolf ultrasonic might be easier. each item can have a tag with a cr2032, a mic, and a transducer. have the base station rotate another transducer in a parabolic reflector, transmitting pulses and listening for a response, which will be generated by the circuitry on the tags.
11:08 rue_mohr technically, you could use a large explosive to locate your car too, but it'll only work once
11:08 furrywolf plot the distance (time) and strength of all received signals on the screen.
11:08 lolzie Yeah I really know nooothing on the circuit level. I'm really just looking to work out what hardware I can buy off the shelf, plug in together and have some little chip that I can program the logic onto to tie it all together
11:08 rue_mohr ideas comming to live involve being at the right place at the right time,
11:09 rue_mohr someone who has all the experiance and resources to make it happen
11:09 furrywolf lolzie: the best off-the-shelf solution would be a shelf, like I said earlier. :P
11:09 rue_mohr I wanted to build that cirucit for my cats
11:09 furrywolf the shelf is the off-the-shelf fix. :P
11:09 lolzie furrywolf: I'd like to be able to cater for drunken party situations where things get moved about :P
11:10 rue_mohr I bought a pile of parts from dk and then found the circuit didn't work too great
11:10 lolzie It's always the hungover morning-after where I can't find my stuff, or forget an item which I could have been reminded and located towards!
11:10 rue_mohr too drunk to find your keys but not too drunk to drive
11:10 rue_mohr australlia must be great
11:11 lolzie Hahaha, nah no car I'm afraid. Incidentally the last time I was behind a wheel I crashed it and wrote the thing off.
11:11 theBear lol, we aren't all like that (we're all too drunk to drive, just some of us don't drive <grin>)
11:11 furrywolf bbl, attempting to go yard saling in marginal vehicle.
11:11 rue_mohr :)
11:11 rue_mohr theBear, did you ever fix up your motorbike?
11:11 rue_mohr or had it siezed itself to scrap
11:13 theBear neither, possibly one... got it dried and generally not left in a crappy heap in the corner, never had a chance to get inside yet... i suspect the insides are cool, but the clutch (original reason for it becoming unused) needs full replacing now it's all corroded and crappy, AND the bearing behind it, which goes right into the body of the motor... but hey, it's small, i might get to it
11:13 theBear i HAVE been practicing my 2stroke and general small motor maintenance and repair skills in the meantime tho
11:14 theBear the other day took me about 10 seconds to start a whipper-snipper that the owner themselves couldn't start and suspected for broken :)
11:14 rue_mohr hows your body holding togethor? are you able to use your spine?
11:14 theBear mostly... not allowed anything over about 20kg in any way or form for the next 6-12 months, and probably never have a job loading trucks again, but i'm upwardly mobile and seldom feel a twinge
11:17 rue_mohr you just need to make yourself a powersuit
11:17 rue_mohr cmon, you know you want one
11:17 rue_mohr put it down as a medical expense
11:19 rizlah theBear: What happened to your back?
11:19 rue_mohr atlas asked him to hld something for a minute
11:21 theBear rizlah, kinda what rue said, basically born funny, very extreme carcrash, worked into the ground often involving packing heavy stuff into large trucks
11:21 rizlah ah ok, so many things
11:21 rizlah Thought it was just once incident where your disk went or something
11:22 rue_mohr oooo I can get a 2.5" to 3.5" bracket for my next $1 item
11:23 theBear well, the crippling pain and lack of leg use and walking stick for most of a year was just one disc incident, but it was a long time coming and unhappy about healing 'cos of the underlying problems
11:23 e_mohr chants "powers
11:23 rizlah Ah
11:23 rue_mohr you can kat can both work on one
11:23 rizlah I'm having lower back pain for the last few months, but working on core muscles for better support before it goes bad
11:25 theBear mmm... that approach has worked well for me on and off over the years, and well, it's about all i got left now :)
11:45 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Air-Compressor-/320933558062?pt=BI_Air_Compressors&hash=item4ab921772e
11:45 rue_mohr hahaha "buy it now" hahahaha OOPS
11:48 rue_mohr I found 2 more!
11:48 rue_mohr wtf?!
11:48 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MC1A-MC-1A-2MC1A-2MC-1A-Air-Compressor-Manual-Download-/330561215846?pt=BI_Books_Manuals&hash=item4cf6fbdd66
11:48 rue_mohr oh manual
11:50 Tom_itx that first one must be burnt up
11:50 Tom_itx both
11:54 rue_mohr http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9jpWiTVR0GA
11:54 rue_mohr heh
11:58 rue_mohr hmm
11:58 rue_mohr the goggles alone are $250
12:23 Tom_itx ok, hub nearly done
12:23 Tom_itx who would pay $250 for google?
12:45 Tom_itx well i fucked that up
12:45 Tom_itx may as well make another one
12:45 theBear what kinda hub ?
12:46 Tom_itx .562 ID, 1.00 OD, .250 thick
12:46 theBear oh, physical hub :)
12:47 Tom_itx with holes in the side to mount this encoder: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/stepper6.jpg
12:47 theBear nice.... single or double/offset sensor ?
12:47 Tom_itx single
12:47 Tom_itx off a printer
12:48 Tom_itx i just wanna make a tach for my spindle speed
12:48 theBear still nice, not hard to add a 2nd if you feel the need
12:48 theBear what am i saying ? just grab one out of an old vcr if yer need one
12:48 Tom_itx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhU7S8kifJ4&feature=youtu.be
12:49 Tom_itx the new drivers, psu, steppers installed
12:49 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control4.jpg
12:50 theBear mmmm... that's a nice solid looking mill/bed you got there
12:50 Tom_itx drivers and psu
12:50 Tom_itx it's not as solid as it looks :D
12:50 Tom_itx but i get stuff done
12:50 theBear jeez, the driver noise at the end is a bit rough :)
12:50 Tom_itx cutting a circle
12:50 Tom_itx it's the steppers
12:50 Tom_itx steprate is 40000 per inch
12:51 theBear mmm nice
12:51 Tom_itx smooth
12:51 Tom_itx 50v 18A psu
12:51 Tom_itx just in case :D
12:52 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
12:52 Tom_itx project page for that
12:53 Tom_itx well fark. back out into the heat
12:57 theBear heh, that's a decent looking psu
13:11 Oldboy I wonder how many views Tom_itx loses out on from firewalls that don't allow port 81
13:16 rue_shop Triffid_Hunter, every time I see a peice of plastic with >ABS< I think of a meat grinder and start to get excited
13:17 rue_shop Oldboy, told him to use 82+
13:17 rue_shop !thislog
13:17 tobbor This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2012-07-07.html
13:17 rue_shop I learned
13:19 rue_shop katsmeow-afk, if you had to break down hard plastic into little bits, what might you do
13:20 rue_shop maybe an electric lawnmower turned into a big kitchen mixer
13:21 rue_shop or a router
13:21 e_shop looks at the selection of router
13:23 rue_shop I was taking apart an inkjet printer
13:23 rainbow_rue wow, I'm colourfull now
13:24 rainbow_rue green, purple, blue, red, yellow, brown...
13:26 rainbow_rue 58 motors, put say 4 in series shafts...
13:26 rainbow_rue 14 sets
13:27 rainbow_rue there are 5 possable takeoff points
13:27 rainbow_rue so you would need less than 3 set offsets
13:28 rainbow_rue about 25 degrees radially
13:29 rainbow_rue if each motor is about 4" around
13:29 rainbow_rue circumfrance of 56"
13:30 rainbow_rue 18" diamiter
13:31 rainbow_rue for the whole set
13:31 rainbow_rue so 18" by say, each motor is 8" long...18" x 32" for the whole kitenmaroo
13:31 rainbow_rue weighing a bit over 81kg
13:32 rainbow_rue peak output 3000rpm @ 190 foot*lbs
13:32 rainbow_rue 58 vacuum cleaner motors
13:32 rainbow_rue and the best part: it would sound like a jet engine
13:33 rainbow_rue if the motors that were axially ganged were series wired at 90VDC ea then the whole thing could be 360V
13:34 rainbow_rue 108 HP
13:34 rainbow_rue 81kw
13:35 rainbow_rue 360V 81kw =
13:35 rainbow_rue 225A
13:35 rainbow_rue say 113A wired as 720V
13:35 rainbow_rue still high
13:38 rainbow_rue 81kg(+) of 58 vaccuum cleaner motors @ 3:1 outputting 3000rpm @ 190 foot lbs for a total of 108HP (81kW) running off 720V with peak current of 113A in an array 18" around by 32" long
13:39 rainbow_rue 720V generated by AA cells
13:39 rainbow_rue Ni-mh
13:40 rainbow_rue 2.3Ah
13:42 rainbow_rue charged say 1.5V dead, say 1.1V
13:43 rainbow_rue 480 series
13:44 rainbow_rue I'm gonna say, by the chart, designed around 2.5A draw per cell
13:44 rainbow_rue 45 cells parallel by 480 in series for a total of 21600 cells
13:45 rainbow_rue each cell weighs "approx 30g"
13:45 rainbow_rue 648kg of batteries
13:45 rainbow_rue huh
13:45 rainbow_rue I think thats almost half the weight of my truck
13:48 rainbow_rue the truck, empty, weighs 1500kg
13:49 rainbow_rue truck holds 60 to 80L of fuel
13:50 rainbow_rue .76kg/L
13:50 rainbow_rue 60kg of gas full
13:51 rainbow_rue so I only have to make up for 588kg
13:51 rainbow_rue how much does a spare tire and passanger seat weigh?
13:51 rainbow_rue :)
13:51 rainbow_rue ok just a sec
13:54 rainbow_rue you would get about an hour at full power
13:54 rainbow_rue hmm
13:54 rainbow_rue 81kg(+) of 58 vaccuum cleaner motors @ 3:1 outputting 3000rpm @ 190 foot lbs for a total of 108HP (81kW) running off 720V with peak current of 113A in an array 18" around by 32" long
13:55 Tom_itx ok this one may be useable unless i screw it up on the 2nd operation
13:56 rainbow_rue 21600 Ni-mh AA cells arranged as 45 banks of 480 cells in series, suppling 720V at up to 113A weighing 648kg at full load (108HP) lasting 1 hour
13:57 Tom_itx rainbow_rue why are you so colorful today?
13:57 rainbow_rue took apart an inkjet plotter
13:57 Tom_itx you didn't remove the pens first?
13:57 rainbow_rue inkjet heads
13:57 rainbow_rue it had pipes
13:58 rainbow_rue that did a surprising amount of spraying/squirting/oozing
13:58 rainbow_rue the volume discount from dk for that many cells is great
13:59 GuShH why would you need 720V and what load requires such amount of power?
13:59 rainbow_rue 81kwh of power
14:00 rainbow_rue GuShH, you series the motors to that voltage to keep the current DOWN to 113A
14:00 GuShH the only reason you'd want a high voltage is to lessen voltage drop
14:00 GuShH what motors are you talking about
14:00 rainbow_rue 58 vacuum cleaner mtoors
14:00 rainbow_rue !thislog
14:00 tobbor This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2012-07-07.html
14:00 rainbow_rue see the design data
14:01 GuShH did you take your meds?
14:26 katsmeow-afk ok, little shurephloe pump is just a tiny bit faster than the creek atm, but i am pretty sure i am getting at least 1/2 gal-minute, or 30gal-hr or 720gal-day
14:26 katsmeow-afk found craw-dads
14:27 katsmeow-afk so, even at 1/2 gal-min, i can get 21,600 gal/month in this drought
14:32 katsmeow-afk rue, can you get 2.5 amps for an hour out of a Ni-mh AA cell ?? and still have any terminal voltage on it?
14:32 katsmeow-afk cause at 113amps across 45 banks of AA cells, that's 2.5 amps/bank, and that sounds way high to me,, like cell-damaging high
14:33 katsmeow-afk you'll need cooling systems (liquid or air) and allowances for battery pack swelling
14:35 katsmeow-afk but fwiw, i once considered packing the fat off-road tires on a wchair with C cells and foam, and installing hub motors, and tell everyone it ran on magic
14:35 katsmeow-afk "ok, you say it does not run on magic? then tell me where the batteries or engine are!"
14:36 katsmeow-afk it's right up there with cutting out the section of tire that touches the ground, and putting rollers there, so the tire no longer turns, but the wchair runs as fast as ever,, at least on a flat floor
14:43 katsmeow-afk there's another storm just south of me AGAIN!!
15:01 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, I went by the chart
15:02 rue_mohr 2.5A for 1 hr finishing at 1.1V
16:40 jschall hmm, i want to order a bunch of this style of connector: http://imgur.com/zNRjx and i can't seem to find them on digikey. anyone know what to actually look for?
17:03 Tom_itx umm yes, lemme think
17:06 Tom_itx crap, i can't remember what they're called now.
17:07 Tom_itx something -c
17:07 Tom_itx i'll think of it if you gimme a min
17:09 Tom_itx try c-grid
17:09 Tom_itx that's it
17:10 Tom_itx c-grid iii
17:10 Tom_itx i believe
17:11 Tom_itx maybe C-Grid SL
17:12 Tom_itx http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=0&y=0&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=WM2804-ND
17:13 Tom_itx jschall ^^
17:14 jschall Tom_itx: you think that's right? it looks different. does it take different pins?
17:14 Tom_itx you need the pins for molex yes
17:14 Tom_itx look on the catalog page for the pins or call them
17:14 Tom_itx all those series housings are slightly different and require their own pins
17:15 Tom_itx it's mainly the locking mechanism that's different on them
17:15 jschall Tom_itx: hmm, pins: standard package 20,000 at only $1320
17:15 jschall Tom_itx: ah, found one that isn't
17:15 Tom_itx well you're on the right track now anyway
17:16 jschall Tom_itx: woah, 50 cents a pin? what?
17:16 Tom_itx i use a $6 crimper from Rs for them
17:16 jschall http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/16-02-0104/WM2564-ND/1118774
17:16 Tom_itx so get them from mouser or find a different cheaper brand
17:16 Tom_itx you asked for the connector and i delivered :D
17:17 Tom_itx search that catalog page or around it for similar connectors
17:28 jschall Tom_itx: hmm, pololu has them, but i don't know if i can go cheaper.
17:28 Tom_itx try jameco too
17:29 Tom_itx they're cheap on stuff like that sometimes
17:29 Tom_itx just be sure you match the pin and connector
17:32 katsmeow-afk the lil pump is just a shade ahead of the creek (a series of small spring-fed pools in the rock)
17:33 katsmeow-afk furry, one way to make the pump growl is clog the intake filters with silt/mud, it will pull such a vac it will deaireate the water
17:34 katsmeow-afk hint, regular stream of bubbles go in even thot he intake is 10 inches uner water, and no bubbles come out of the pump
17:34 katsmeow-afk it's pumped a couple 100 gallons so far today
17:36 katsmeow-afk i also figured the slope downhill of the creek is such that even tho a intake pipe 90 degrees to the creek is 5ft high 10 ft away, a level 15ft pipe is only a foot up if it follows the creekbed, as the creekbed drops 4ft in that 15ft
17:37 katsmeow-afk the goal being the pump isn't underwater if there's 4ft of water in the creek and it's doing 30mph downhill
17:48 katsmeow-afk saw a pink ruffed salamander too
17:59 katsmeow-afk .
18:10 anannie hi
18:10 tobbor anannie! like, totally tell us about the project!
18:10 anannie tobbor: It's been a long time since I've built something, but right now I'm thinking about making a simple wheeled machine
18:12 anannie I want to start off with an skeleton made of an aluminium channeling (think of it as an I type shape except I've made a few modifications and gusset plated to increase strength and rigidity) and then I'll start adding things on top
18:14 anannie I plan to take a 4 cm radius aluminium pipe, cute it in half and then add it as the front and back on the skeleton and then make the walls so to speak at the side with this particular pattern of holes to reduce weight while maintaing something like 80% of the strength
18:15 anannie the idea is to reduce the mass of the machine without compromising on build quality and then using it up in the form of batteries later on (NiMH)
18:15 anannie It's been a long time since I've done something like this so who knows how it will turn out
18:15 anannie tobbor: I hope that answers your condescending question
18:16 tsmeow-afk hopes anannie knows tobbor is a dumb
18:16 anannie katsmeow-afk: Nope. First time here
18:17 katsmeow-afk oh, well, let me tell you then: tobbor has no brains to speak of
18:17 anannie katsmeow-afk: Oh so what do you think about said project?
18:17 katsmeow-afk your description of your machine sounds heavy duty
18:18 anannie Well I'm trying to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past.
18:18 katsmeow-afk nothing wrong with a rbot platform being able to take getting run over by an 18-wheeler, but most epople just keep their platforms out of the road
18:18 jschall Tom_itx: i ended up just buying from pololu http://imgur.com/Q25Z2
18:19 jschall Tom_itx: probably got ripped off
18:19 katsmeow-afk well, there was Rif's bot, which he'd ride around in his driveway
18:19 jschall Tom_itx: but i won't have to deal with not having the damn things around any more
18:20 katsmeow-afk rue has made a few platforms he could have ridden around on too
18:20 anannie katsmeow-afk: Yeah, I do tend to obsess over things, but this should actually be easier to make while being rigid enough for some fun.
18:20 katsmeow-afk instead of building bots, i spent the day on water gathering and transportation
18:21 anannie katsmeow-afk: Well this one is going to small and hopefully light enough for me to carry (I can't carry more than 6 to 8 lbs)
18:21 katsmeow-afk i agree, but i use steel because it's cheaper and i cannot weld aluminum
18:22 katsmeow-afk i am wondering why you'd carry your robot
18:22 anannie Oh I'm not actually going to do any welding. It's all going to be held together by screws and I'm going to try and get a metal shop to bend a few pieces into choice shapes to act as connectors
18:22 katsmeow-afk like ia m fond of saying: "can it lift the battery out of the car?"
18:22 anannie well I have to carry it if I want to run it in say the park...
18:23 anannie after I figure out how to get the hardware side of things right I want to try and do some SLAM
18:23 katsmeow-afk some what?
18:24 anannie make the machine map the enviornment, figure out its location and then make it run around
18:24 katsmeow-afk oh
18:25 anannie of course I don't know any of the math behind this stuff, so it's a huge challenge for me, so it's really my holy grail
18:25 katsmeow-afk rue did that, inadvertently,, one robot runs up the hill and beats on the lawnmower, one robot prefers to mow only flowers
18:25 anannie lol, who is rue?
18:26 tsmeow-afk points at rue_* in the nick
18:26 annie stares and wonder
18:26 katsmeow-afk we have assorted rue: rainbow_rue, rue_bed, and rue_mohr
18:26 katsmeow-afk often , tehre's other rues
18:26 anannie lol
18:27 katsmeow-afk i think he is off making up a makerbot atm
18:27 anannie makerbot?
18:27 jschall why would you make a makerbot instead of have a makerbot make you a makerbot?
18:28 jschall maybe it's the very first makerbot?
18:28 anannie the 3D printer?
18:28 katsmeow-afk umm, it's a device that (typically) melts a plastic and dribbles it on a set pattern to make thngs
18:28 jschall yeah i know, it probably can't make itself... yet.
18:28 katsmeow-afk yeas
18:28 jschall i want a 3d printer :(
18:29 anannie I wonder if you could make something like that for aluminium.
18:29 katsmeow-afk i doubt it, thos i hear it's been done with a wirefeed welder for steel
18:30 anannie if you could automate cutting, welding, pressing and so on in one box then you could theoretically do this
18:30 anannie well it would probably be more like a parallelised assembly line than a traditional 3d printer
18:30 anannie but it would be cool
18:30 jschall couldn't you just have it make a mold and then fill it with aluminum?
18:30 tsmeow-afk cusses that 3 more storms are going thru the county and not leaving a drop of rain HERE fo
18:31 anannie jschall: Nope making dies is costly...
18:31 anannie jschall: and then handling the molten liquid is hard. It'll consume too much energy
18:32 katsmeow-afk if you have lots of electrical power, i suppose you could do a sintered aluminum,, or epoxy-alum matrix
18:32 jschall making aluminum in the first place takes a lot of energy =P
18:32 katsmeow-afk making dinner doesn't, nukebox just dinged, afk
18:35 anannie but come to think of it if you could use a 3D printer type device, maybe there is some ceramic or some material which you can use to create the shape and then you bathe it in some chemicals to prepare it for the pouring and then you move it to one corner of the device and pour it in - I'm trying to research what exactly they use for casting it
18:37 anannie surely you don't need the stell, maybe there's some type of ceramic you can use and is the high pressure really necessary?
18:37 anannie * steel
18:39 anannie that said I'm going out to buy some aluminium tomorrow for the machine, any tips?
18:44 katsmeow-afk i was afk
18:44 anannie has anyone over here tried to make aerial drones?
18:44 anannie welcome back katsmeow-afk :)
18:44 anannie I hope you have a nice dinner :-)
18:44 katsmeow-afk makerbots/reprap/printers do not pour into casts, altho they can make the cast or make the "lost wax" form
18:45 katsmeow-afk i scarfed it down fast, hungry
18:45 katsmeow-afk getting water isn't supposed to be this difficult
18:46 katsmeow-afk someone, i forget who, in Oz, i think, makes rc planes
18:47 anannie katsmeow-afk: What do you make if I may ask?
18:47 anannie what's the lost wax form?
18:47 katsmeow-afk for alum, i'd get square tubing and round tubing, both are nearly impossible to twist, and will add a lot of stiffness to your platform
18:48 tsmeow-afk wonders if anannie is in college in I
18:48 annie never went to col
18:49 katsmeow-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_wax
18:49 anannie I never had the chance
18:49 anannie (I shall not use opportunity; that just sounds clichéd and is straight from the script of a dramatic b-movie)
18:50 katsmeow-afk i do stuff on DesignerThinking.com , and one day i hope to do things i REALLY WANT to do, instead of MUST DO stuff
18:51 anannie Wow.
18:52 anannie and erm apologies for being so slow right now. I'm a bit sleep deprived.
18:53 katsmeow-afk this is current projects (not counting the water system, and getting moved back in here) : http://designerthinking.com/benchpsu.html and http://designerthinking.com/pancake.html
18:53 anannie why isn't lost wax used at an industrial level? Is it because you can't harden the metal through pressure (the die seems to be a rather flimsy deal)
18:54 katsmeow-afk a BIG project i have nneeded for 10 years is a 5terabyte fileserver with gigabyte speeds and RAID and 32gigabytes of ram
18:55 katsmeow-afk the lost wax is usually truely lost, unrecoverable, and can get expensive
18:55 anannie is the expense the material cost or the cost of getting someone to actually make it?
18:55 anannie if it's the latter then a 3D printer type process should drop the cost
18:56 anannie I'm guessing that it is indeed the latter
18:57 katsmeow-afk also not linked from homepage yet : http://designerthinking.com/garden.html and http://designerthinking.com/pfc.html and http://designerthinking.com/water.html
18:57 katsmeow-afk that's 5 projects with webpages, started a few months ago, which is why i have no time to build robots :-/
18:58 anannie wow all of these are actually pretty sweet projects. I love the build, I can tell that you have a really, really experienced hand.
18:59 katsmeow-afk sometimes, it's rewarding, fun
18:59 anannie why do you need such a heavy duty psu btw?
19:00 katsmeow-afk that pancake motor can pull 75amp surges
19:00 katsmeow-afk plus i have some ideas to build involving car windshield motors, and riding mower starters
19:01 anannie I'd never heard of pancake motors before this... thanks :D
19:01 katsmeow-afk and that file server idea... at one watt per memory module, that's ~50amps at 1.8v
19:02 katsmeow-afk rated power for most ram modules is 10 watts when in use, that would be 500amp surges
19:02 katsmeow-afk hopefully the electronics will be smarter than to engage all modules at same time
19:03 anannie what about using lots of embedded systems?
19:03 katsmeow-afk it's the embedding that's the problem, who has what data and why does it take so long to share it?
19:03 anannie you could have segregate the thing, one portion consisting of RAM sticks and the other embedded
19:04 anannie the RAM can act as a cache and you could have a master slave config in a way and you really don't need a top down architecture
19:04 theBear hmm.. is there a standard for how to draw a n vs a p fet in a schematic ?
19:04 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/computerlab.html
19:04 katsmeow-afk bear, yep, for all 20 different standard fets
19:04 theBear oh :( bummer :)
19:05 katsmeow-afk draw one you like, or use one from google or wikipedia
19:05 katsmeow-afk i tend to draw a hybrid fet-bipolar for myself, don't tell anyone, they'll think i am lazy
19:06 anannie I've never actually done something like this, but wouldn't it be better to say have an unique hash for info and then start assigning modules (a collection of say a ram stick + embedded stuff) for a series of hashes let's say 1k to 2k is taken for type XYZ then you could have a lookup system underneath that and you could quickly extract things
19:06 katsmeow-afk you know how a bipolar legs go -|< ? i draw a -|= for fets
19:07 katsmeow-afk anannie, what's embedded where?
19:08 katsmeow-afk i have winxp, a terabyte per puter, several terabytes on the shelf i need to access, and *millions* of file sin some folders that takes an HOUR for windoze to open
19:08 anannie embedded stuff is flash + controller that talks to something like a raspberry pi which manages both that and the RAM - I don't know if this will work because I don't know anything about this, but is this feasible?
19:08 katsmeow-afk no, the amount of data is excessive int he extreme
19:09 anannie oh what do you do if I may ask?
19:09 katsmeow-afk i have many many more times as much data as wikipedia, on each and every computer
19:09 katsmeow-afk you did ask, i did tell you
19:10 anannie yep, this time I meant in the sense of day job
19:10 katsmeow-afk wikipedia's text/xml db amounts to 20gigs iirc, i have some folders with 68gigabytes in them
19:10 anannie O.o
19:11 katsmeow-afk oh, i am worthless in the usa, i have trouble standing because of a back injury, so no matter what i can do, no one will hire me, or even let me volunteer
19:11 anannie I'm sorry
19:12 katsmeow-afk <shrug> their loss, and i claim the right to complain since they won't hire me to fix anything
19:12 anannie :-(
19:12 anannie I lucked out in terms of my job
19:14 katsmeow-afk it's an hr before dark, i think i'll go get the lil pump from the creek, since it's not in a rain-waterproof install yet, and take some pics while i am down there
19:14 katsmeow-afk bbl
19:15 anannie It's nearly daybreak over here and I need to go to ground soon (yep I'm a vampire :p ) ttyl, thanks for the nice chat.
20:32 furrywolf meh, spent too much at yard sales today, but got some fun stuff.... brand new grundfoss circulation pump, the fittings for one of my pumps, brand new 24v circulation pump, new pressure gauges, an new automatic air vent, a new tank thermometer, a dewalt 18v tool set (drill, circular saw, reciprocating saw, charger, radio, batteries), a stack of 4gal pots, a big roll of 8/3 wire (~50lbs), a new 2.1gal expansion tank,
20:33 furrywolf a new plate heat exchanger (about 8in by 4in by 1.5in), and some assorted small things.
20:33 furrywolf spent $90. :(
20:39 furrywolf the same guy had some really shiny stuff (new 6kw inverter, new evacuated tube solar collector, etc), but while decently priced, it was all out of my budget.
20:44 furrywolf hrmm, I need to hack a usb port into the radio, to use for charging my mp3 player.
21:06 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/water.html#new
21:08 furrywolf by getting a circulator pump, a heat exchanger, and an expansion tank, I now have, completely unexpectedly, all the parts needed to generate hot RO water.
21:08 katsmeow-afk bout time!
21:08 katsmeow-afk and congrats
21:09 katsmeow-afk i spent the afternoon playing in creek water and poison ivey and 120vac ,, calculating and playing "What If?"
21:09 furrywolf pretty creek
21:10 katsmeow-afk btw, http://designerthinking.com/images/water/IMG_1825m.jpg is *after* the pump has emptied the lil pool of water that was there
21:10 katsmeow-afk it's beautiful, words hardly describe it in person
21:11 furrywolf I wish I had more money... could have filled up another carload of fun things from this sale.
21:11 katsmeow-afk the further along tot he west, the deeper thru the rock layer, and the bigegr the rocks are, they get to an average sise of 3x4ft and 5" thick at the west propertyline
21:12 furrywolf could you create a small dam, to accumulate water overnight, then pump it during the day?
21:13 katsmeow-afk i believe the water in the ground would just flow out somewhere else
21:14 katsmeow-afk i can maybe make it 6" deep in high flow seasons tho
21:15 furrywolf what about a big plastic liner, that water flows into?
21:15 katsmeow-afk did you see what i said about making the pump growl?
21:15 furrywolf no
21:15 katsmeow-afk i do not know where all the water is flowing out of the ground, i cold block the water flow with a liner
21:15 katsmeow-afk scroll up
21:16 furrywolf znc only gives me my buffer about half the time, and with all my channels in one window, the buffer for each one isn't that long.
21:18 katsmeow-afk there, i spammed you the log in pm
21:18 furrywolf mine starts clicking if the well goes down below 20ft. heh.
21:18 furrywolf still pumps though!
21:20 katsmeow-afk i noticed because the intake was under 10 inches of water, and the clearsuction line had steady bubbles in it for minutes and minutes
21:20 furrywolf yeah, they pull a surprisingly good vacuum. I think I got the gauge to 28inhg once...
21:20 katsmeow-afk i had dug out rocks from the puddle, making it deeper, set the intake in it, and the vibration of the pump cause silt to bury the intake completely
21:21 furrywolf a few coils of rubber heater hose works well for dampening the vibration. that's what I use on mine.
21:21 furrywolf even if you isolate the vibrations of the hose, the water itself still pulsates.
21:22 katsmeow-afk yeas
21:23 katsmeow-afk i think i'll run 1" or 1.24" pvc to a screened steel pipe set in the hole, and covered with loose rock to hide it, the pump(s) well above the water ~15ft away
21:24 katsmeow-afk it's a beautiful place down there, and mostly quiet, i don't wanna ruin it with equipment in plain view and pump noise
21:25 katsmeow-afk it's also very difficult to get to atm, the path to use during low water is all overgrown
21:25 furrywolf the pumps can be pretty quiet if mounted on rubber with coiled rubber hoses.
21:26 katsmeow-afk i have always wanted a cog-wheel railway of sorts down the mountain there, it's almost steep enough that rapelling lines are required
21:27 furrywolf cog wheel is hard; cable is easier. :)
21:27 furrywolf harbor freight winches...
21:27 katsmeow-afk but i don't want the tram wheels on the ground, so there's still be rails
21:28 katsmeow-afk harbor freight winches don't pack on enough cable
21:28 furrywolf use them as a capstan winch
21:29 katsmeow-afk if i have a set of rails, why not use a hoist chain as a cog drive?
21:29 furrywolf what about an aerial tram?
21:30 katsmeow-afk here's a HF winch using bike chain : http://designerthinking.com/images/winchsprockets/onshaft2.jpg
21:31 furrywolf an aerial tram has to be easier than running rails...
21:31 katsmeow-afk aerial tram is too pricey for the weight, and then there's the anchors
21:32 katsmeow-afk some 1x2 steel channel isn't all that pricey if supported every 3 or 4 ft with angle into the ground
21:33 katsmeow-afk i think it's worth while if i was going to stay here and enjoy all the property
21:36 furrywolf brb
21:41 katsmeow-afk right now, i'd like to be bbqing with friends at the lake, swimming, small campfire, drinks, and a taxi to take us all home ~2am
21:50 furrywolf back
21:50 furrywolf unloaded the car and took photos of some of today's garage sale bits
21:55 furrywolf grrr, internet sucking today
21:56 furrywolf http://fw.bushytails.net/yardsalesolarwater01.jpg the small, easy to fit in house bits. all brand new in boxes.
21:59 katsmeow-afk what is a "spirotop" ?
21:59 buhman though admittedly halfway insane, would it be feasable to force a robot to move is a straight line without any sort of quadrature encoders or (mechanical) feedback from the motor shafts whatsoever?
21:59 furrywolf it's an automatic air vent for radiator systems, also useful at the top of your solar hot water panels.
21:59 furrywolf buhman: yes. put a rail on the ground. ride on it.
21:59 katsmeow-afk ah, ok
21:59 buhman but instead use a gyroscope and accelerometer to detect the drift, and adjust motor speed accordingly?
21:59 buhman furrywolf: heh
22:00 buhman motor power*
22:00 katsmeow-afk measuring the wheel rotation to locate yourself is a bad idea anyhow, wheels slip
22:00 furrywolf basically just an upside down float valve... when it fills with water, the float pokes a needle into the valve on top, sealing it off. when it accumulates too much air, the float falls, the valve opens, and it vents.
22:01 furrywolf gyroscopes and accelerometers work, but have drift over time.
22:01 katsmeow-afk furry, used them before, and on steam lines, never saw the one you have
22:02 katsmeow-afk many poeple who want a robot to move based on wheel rotation simply drive them whith steppers
22:02 buhman erm, so how else does one make a robot chassis go *straight*?
22:02 buhman surely an accelerometer+gyroscope alone would be better than quadrature encoders alone, yes?
22:02 furrywolf why does it need to go *straight* with no external references?
22:03 katsmeow-afk follow a radio/ultrasonic/laser signal
22:03 buhman furrywolf: well, more like just get a better idea of orientation than just complete dead reckoning playing with PWM duty cycles on the encoder-less motors.
22:03 buhman orientation/position
22:04 katsmeow-afk an accelerometer+gyroscope would get you on target a LOT better than encoders on the axles, if one wheel hit a hairball <cough>
22:04 buhman that answers my question; thanks.
22:04 furrywolf anything based on inertial measurement without outside references will eventually drift. eventually may be seconds or hours, with the time it's accurate for directly related to the number of zeros on the price tag of the sensors.
22:05 katsmeow-afk wheels slip, they slip going from wood floor to carpet, they get stuck on small pebbles and slip on animal pee, they never track around a corner when you want them to, they slip badly during accel and braking, etc
22:06 buhman I'm talking like accurate enough to go forward about 20-50m without drifting more than 1 inch
22:06 buhman should be fairly easy
22:06 buhman ( hope)
22:06 buhman I^
22:06 katsmeow-afk the key in that phrase furr said is "without outside references" , you can always make a radio or ultrasonic time/position beep every minute and be accurate to a mm
22:07 buhman how would radio work?
22:07 buhman how would you pinpoint your location with say just one transmitter and one reciever?
22:07 katsmeow-afk if you know where your destination is with accuracy, and you find it, you then know where you are with accuracy, no matter how long it's been
22:07 katsmeow-afk not one and one
22:07 katsmeow-afk triangulation
22:08 buhman so like three and one?
22:08 buhman four maybe if we don't know our elevation?
22:08 katsmeow-afk note the acustic wavelength of ultrasonics is a lot shorter (so more accurate) than radio
22:08 katsmeow-afk right
22:09 katsmeow-afk that said, acustics bounce more , where radio will go right thru wallboard
22:09 furrywolf http://www.alfalaval.com/solution-finder/products/cb/Documents/CB14_PCT00122EN.pdf think that can transfer heat fast enough for a kitchen sink tap?
22:09 buhman right, I think it would be cool to not have to worry about walls for the most part
22:09 katsmeow-afk there's no perfect cure, but you pic the one that works best for you
22:10 katsmeow-afk furry, it's apdf, and it's not coming in, i tried 3x
22:11 katsmeow-afk heat fast enough really depends on how open you the valve and what water pressure etc
22:11 furrywolf http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/alfa-laval/cb14/16602-132840.html
22:12 katsmeow-afk no idea, not enough data
22:13 katsmeow-afk it has 4 charts, with no btu (kw+time) rates
22:13 katsmeow-afk showing me temperature arrows with no other data is useless
22:14 katsmeow-afk afk, bbiaf
22:14 furrywolf I guess if I'm interpreting that graph correctly, if you run 1200l/hr (5.3gpm) of 74C water in, it drops to 56C, while heating 426l/hr (1.9gpm) from 10C to 60C.
22:15 furrywolf 2gpm is plenty for a sink... 5.3gpm is a bit fast for a circulation pump, though.
22:19 furrywolf hrmm, before contemplating this system further, I should actually get my well water tested. I don't have any evidence it's not fit for use as sink water.
22:19 furrywolf it's a very cute little heat exchanger, and stupidly heavy for its size.
22:24 Tom_itx tested backlash compensation on my mill tonight and i must say i was rather impressed with the result on this little mill
22:27 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alfa-Laval-Refrigerant-Heat-Exchanger-Type-CB14-14H-/390405318104?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae5f865d8 ouch. I'm much happier at the $5 I paid.
22:29 furrywolf I had to turn on backlash compensation for my mill too... bleh.
22:29 furrywolf about three thous on x and y. I didn't measure Z accurately.
22:30 furrywolf my brass nuts are worn out, and I can't set the backlash tighter without problems. they're cheap, will replace them one of these days.
22:37 furrywolf hrmm, I guess to use this for hot water, I'd need to give it its own circulation pump, with a differential temperature controller (or just a manual switch) to turn it on.
22:42 furrywolf it would be soooo nice if I could let it convect, but I doubt I can.
22:45 katsmeow-afk convection is based on heat loss or forced gain
22:47 furrywolf yes. but I don't think I'll get enough flow if I just bolt it to the side of the hot water tank and hope the cooling of the exchanger by running cold water through the other side will cause more hot water to convect into it.
22:48 katsmeow-afk good thing you got a pump hen, eh?
22:49 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/encoder_disk1.jpg
22:49 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/encoder_disk2.jpg
22:49 katsmeow-afk ooops, it's offcenter, Tom
22:50 Tom_itx the hole is a bit yes. i put a last word on the disk
22:50 Tom_itx i'm still gettin used to this new setup / software
22:51 katsmeow-afk did you make the slotted disk too?!
22:51 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/stepper6.jpg
22:52 katsmeow-afk saw that, does that answer my queston?
22:52 Tom_itx i did not make it
22:52 Tom_itx i repurposed it
22:52 katsmeow-afk ah
22:53 katsmeow-afk i bet you could make them now too, if not in plain metals, praps in .025 pcb
22:53 katsmeow-afk .015 pcb even
22:53 Tom_itx hardly worth it
22:54 katsmeow-afk got to be worth it if you need one you cannot get
22:55 Tom_itx oh i suppose
22:55 Tom_itx i just don't like cutting pcb
22:55 Tom_itx i was a bit concerned with the stainless but it did ok
22:56 Tom_itx it's really thin
22:57 katsmeow-afk i'd think the stainless would be hell on bits
22:59 Tom_itx all i had was a hss 2 flute
22:59 tsmeow-afk
22:59 katsmeow-afk microwave beeping, dinner is ready, tho i may not eat it all
23:00 rrywolf helps eat it
23:33 furrywolf gah! I might need to make a 300mi drive tonight.
23:35 furrywolf I'm already exhausted, and thinking about an early bedtime... do not want a 300mi drive.
23:40 furrywolf http://www.spirotech.com/_media/nl/handleidingen/handl_spirotop.pdf are users supposed to be able to figure out what the heck they're talking about from those icons?
23:43 Oldboy furrywolf: this is for your basement dungeon ?
23:44 furrywolf ?
23:48 furrywolf I told them I wasn't up for a 300mi drive tonight... I'm just too exhausted to do that today.
23:49 Tom_itx mm storm movin in