#robotics Logs

Jul 06 2012

01:10 rue_mohr I made a halarious mistake
01:10 rue_mohr turns out the bearings I thought fit perfectly on a 1/2" EMT pipe dont, the pipe I'd used at the time was some other size
01:56 rue_mohr so I guess I have to invest some interest in making adapters now
02:18 rue_mohr "you dont have to try hard to get someone smart to understand something, but youhave to try DAMN hard to make someone stupid realize they dont understand it"
03:22 GuShH rue_mohr: who wrote that?
03:46 rue_bed me
03:51 Tom_itx rue_bed, make yourself into a mech: http://www2.electronicproducts.com/New_chemical_circuit_enables_control_of_muscles_in_our_bodies-article-olcn_jul2012-html.aspx
06:26 theBear all i want is a single silver tooth ! that'd make me feel like a robot when i looked in the mirror every morning
06:29 theBear ooh, that IS kinda cool
10:43 sw0rdfish hey guys :)
19:44 rue_mohr hi
19:48 rue_mohr hum
19:48 Tom_itx good evening
19:51 rue_mohr yay I won my 18mm spade bit
19:52 rue_mohr !seen the_jester
19:52 tobbor The_jester was last seen in #robotics on Jul 05 00:10 2012
20:50 The_jester greets
20:50 The_jester are you here Rue?
20:51 e_jester w
21:05 rue_bed The_jester,
21:05 rue_bed there you are
21:05 rue_bed I bought the arduino mega last night
21:05 rue_bed damnit
21:05 ShH puts rue_bed in -that-
21:08 Tom_itx m1280 or m2560?
22:11 rue_mohr 256
22:11 Tom_itx 0?
22:11 rue_mohr I'm only buying it cause they specd it
22:11 rue_mohr yes 0
22:12 Tom_itx who did?
22:12 rue_mohr reprap
22:12 Tom_itx oh
22:12 rue_mohr were gonna build the first one 'by the book'
22:12 Tom_itx i was thinking i could put a squirt head on my mill
22:12 rue_mohr then I'll make some on a $20 budget
22:13 rue_mohr the heads aren't hard to make
22:13 Tom_itx what's the hard part?
22:13 rue_mohr the internal liner
22:13 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, Triffid_Hunter Triffid_Hunter
22:14 rue_mohr huh
22:14 rue_mohr works with beatlejuice
22:14 rue_mohr anyhow
22:14 katsmeow-afk http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18724114
22:15 rue_mohr Tom_itx, they have a board they call the scuff or scart or soemthing that is just an arduino with a shield
22:15 rue_mohr does all their motion control
22:15 Tom_itx yeah
22:15 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: sometimes works with me too :P
22:16 rue_mohr :)
22:17 rue_mohr I was just curious if your ever asleep
22:17 katsmeow-afk http://iopscience.iop.org/1741-2552/9/4/046011/article A physical model of sensorimotor interactions during locomotion
22:18 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: yeah I sleep heaps, but at different hours each night
22:18 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, your news articles have developed an intersting theme
22:18 katsmeow-afk sorry
22:19 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, is working out the actual steps/inch part of the calibration? I take it you can put in any number
22:19 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, why?
22:19 rue_mohr huh, the opposeite of antagonist is agonist
22:20 katsmeow-afk didn'tmean to distract you from the more interesting stuff you're doing
22:21 rue_mohr interesting interpertation of my comment
22:21 rrywolf flops onto katsmeow-afk's lap, having worked way too hard yet a
22:21 rue_mohr I dont mind, I'm just noticing your looking into stuff req'd for biological control
22:21 katsmeow-afk i have learned if a neutral or obtuse comment is made about something i did, the actual meaning is negative
22:22 rue_mohr ok, my comments are an acception to that rule ok?
22:22 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: steps per mm, and you can simply calculate it. I wrote a calibration guide
22:22 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: http://reprap.org/wiki/Triffid_Hunter%27s_Calibration_Guide
22:22 rue_mohr sweeet
22:23 e_mohr bookm
22:23 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: although fwiw calibrating E isn't nearly as complex as that guide would make it sound
22:23 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, ah, this has some of the breakdowns I was looking for for the mecha
22:23 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: just get it close enough using the calculation, then slice something at 95% fill density, then adjust E steps until the infill has gaps but the solid layers do not
22:23 Triffid_Hunter the solid layers on top*
22:24 Tom_itx Triffid_Hunter do they have it working with linuxcnc?
22:24 Triffid_Hunter never base anything on the first few layers, they're far too sensitive to the exact distance between nozzle and bed
22:24 katsmeow-afk i know, sorry
22:24 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: some use that for their printers, it's not particularly common though
22:24 Tom_itx that would make it easier for me to use
22:24 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: I hear it takes some fiddling to get it to manage the heaters.. from what I understand, the best method is to get it to forward unknown gcodes to an arduino and run a standard reprap firmware on that for the heaters
22:25 Tom_itx hmm
22:25 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: apart from 4 axis motor control, we also need two closed loop heater controllers with software-defined set point and one PWM output to drive a fan
22:25 rue_mohr for calibrating my pen plotter line width (for doing pcb's) I have a test pattern. its a bunch of lines seperated by different amounts, you look at the two lines that *just* touch and apply an offset based on which ones they are. anything like that for the reprap?
22:26 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: feel free to make one, the math is easy enough :) thingiverse will thank you, you can add it to the plethora of othe calibration prints on there
22:26 furrywolf would be trivial to write.
22:26 rue_mohr :)
22:26 furrywolf a few lines of bash would generate suitable g-code.
22:27 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: I think the hardest part would be getting around the fact that the first few layers are useless for calibration.. you'd have to print some sort of substrate then put your calibration section on top
22:29 furrywolf why would the first few layers be useless, unless the head wasn't aligned with the bed properly?
22:32 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: because it's extraordinarily difficult to get the nozzle spaced the exact correct distance from the bed to within 10 microns or so
22:32 rue_mohr !assist images/p1040213.jpg
22:32 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1040213.jpg
22:32 furrywolf why? touch off like you'd do with a mill...
22:32 Triffid_Hunter plus, it's common to squish the first layer more than the others to improve adhesion, so even if you do get it exactly right, it may not give good prints
22:33 GuShH rue_mohr: will tobbor ever be 100% certain of anything at all?
22:33 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: not familiar enough with mills to know what that is
22:33 rue_mohr there is my plotter pen calibration page
22:33 rue_mohr its how I know the actual line width of the pen
22:33 rue_mohr as the pens wear down I have to recalibrate them
22:34 Tom_itx Triffid_Hunter they make contact with the tool and it acts like a switch for the software to know where the tool tip is
22:34 furrywolf Triffid_Hunter: get a feeler gauge (or piece of paper), slowly lower the Z axis until you just feel it begin to grab, then back off a known distance, and remove the feeler. since the feeler has a known thickness, you now know exactly how far above the surface you are.
22:34 rue_mohr well, if I'm making tight boards, +- a few thou I'm usually fine
22:34 Triffid_Hunter ah, yeah seen a few systems that do that on repraps, need a metal section on the bed somewhere and a wire running to the nozzle
22:35 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: we already use printer paper for that, it's pretty good but thickness changes with humidity
22:35 furrywolf that's why you use a feeler gauge instead. :)
22:35 furrywolf I have a stack of .007 feelers next to my mill... so far I haven't ruined any of them, but if I do, I have spares. heh.
22:35 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: I have feeler gauges. they tend to put oil on the bed and rip up the tape
22:36 Triffid_Hunter even a fingerprint on the bed can cause the part to curl up or break off mid-print
22:36 furrywolf I don't oil mine. heh. they're just the metal strips, not a fold-out holder thingy.
22:36 rue_mohr the painters tape a good fix-all?
22:37 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: blue tape is fine for PLA but gives a rough surface finish.. I prefer to print on hot kapton
22:37 furrywolf although that is a problem I don't have with my mill. it quite happily cuts through fingerprints. :)
22:38 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: yeah exactly, 3d printers are quite different from mills in various interesting ways :)
22:38 Triffid_Hunter eg as long as backlash is below 0.1mm or so, we're good.. 0.05 is easily attainable and much more than that and you don't see any difference
22:38 rue_mohr I'm exited to get going, I have 2 36"plotters for parts with 5 phase bipolar steppers
22:39 furrywolf well, for your calibration, print a couple layers of close crosshatch, with the last one at right angles to the actual test print.
22:39 katsmeow-afk exited to get going?
22:39 rue_mohr yea
22:39 rrywolf would need to translate that to real units for it to make any s
22:39 rue_mohr were waiting on an official parts kit
22:39 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: heh sounds like raft.. reprappers used to use rafts before they worked out how to get proper bed levelling and adhesion
22:40 katsmeow-afk exit = leave
22:40 rue_mohr 92cm
22:40 rue_mohr whats up kat?
22:40 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: use a mirror for the bed, I hear they're best.. apparently it's harder than window glass for the same dimensions
22:40 katsmeow-afk being excessively lazy
22:40 furrywolf 4 thous... I get about 3 thous backlash on my mill. need to replace the leadscrew nuts. they're worn such that even when well-greased, they bind if you try getting the backlash down too much.
22:41 furrywolf Triffid_Hunter: you're the one saying you need a few extra layers first. :P
22:41 rue_mohr two 92cm plotter-grade sliders
22:41 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: just for calibration.. once it's calibrated it's fine
22:41 katsmeow-afk i think i have a complete pinout of ddr2 1.8v non-ecc, non-registered modules, with a high degree of certainty it's correct
22:41 Tom_itx tempered glass should work as well as a mirror
22:42 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, could a person not height map their table?
22:42 katsmeow-afk and translated that to the 4-row sdram socket pinout
22:42 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: yeah, has been done
22:42 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, its just chips, terminiating resistors, and a i2c identifier chip no?
22:42 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: although I believe that the consensus was that the variation was actually in the smooth rods used for linear motion rather than the bed itself
22:42 furrywolf the bigger problem with my mill is the base is worn worse in some spots, so if I tighten the gibs enough that it's perfectly rigid on the worn sections, it binds on the less-worn sections. so I have to keep the gibs a little loose.
22:43 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, wonder if you can use a laser line as a ref to map both
22:43 katsmeow-afk series resistors, 3 difefrent voltages, incredible timing precision
22:43 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: hydraraptor.blogspot.com is preprequisite reading for anyone looking to get into repraps.. that guy is single handedly responsible for at least 30% of the major improvements to print quality
22:43 furrywolf why isn't your table something gauranteed to be pretty flat?
22:43 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: laser is good if it has 10 micron precision when pointing at glass
22:44 rue_mohr I meant using the laser as a horizontal beam and having the head 'dip' into it to get the height
22:44 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: easy to get flat, we use glass. it's parallel to the plane that the nozzle moves in that can be trickier
22:44 furrywolf ah, because you decided hardware store rod, plastic bushings, timing belts, etc, were substitutes for proper ground hardened ways? :)
22:45 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: many are using hall effect sensors as Z endstop at the moment.. I find that my bed surface goes up and down with the weather vs the thing that the endstop is bolted to though
22:45 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: yeah pretty much. I'm working with a company that's bringing out a printer that uses proper linear motion components though
22:45 rue_mohr by how much!?
22:45 Tom_itx Triffid_Hunter, linear slides?
22:46 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: last time I checked it had changed by almost 5mm over the course of a week
22:46 rue_mohr Z?
22:46 rue_mohr !?
22:46 Triffid_Hunter yeah, I was all wtf
22:46 furrywolf that sounds like some defect.
22:46 katsmeow-afk yeas, that wood is VERY non-stable
22:46 rue_mohr sounds like something is moving
22:46 Triffid_Hunter usually it'll only change by about 0.2-0.4 overnight
22:46 katsmeow-afk A four-year-old was killed after a large tombstone fell and hit him at a historic cemetery in the US state of Utah.
22:46 katsmeow-afk Officials are investigating how the 6ft (1.8m) stone fell on Carson Dean Cheney, who lives an hour away in Lehi.
22:46 rue_mohr :(
22:46 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: yeah that's what i thought, and it probably is.. my printer is cobbled together from all sorts of crud, isn't a quality kit
22:47 Triffid_Hunter having a bit of pine for a Y carriage and wooden vertices don't help either
22:47 rue_mohr did I see some machines with a touch pad for zeroing the head depth?
22:47 Triffid_Hunter I bbiab, print just finished
22:48 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: seen some with an encoder and small lcd for various things, suppose you could dial in your Z with it
22:48 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: although it's easier to just turn the Z rods by hand
22:48 furrywolf ah. pine is very moisture sensitive... not good precision material.
22:48 GuShH wood will change a lot with humidity
22:48 GuShH add in a heat cycle and force, it'll warp as well
22:48 rue_mohr should have used oak :)
22:48 Tom_itx beech
22:49 Tom_itx or maple
22:49 Tom_itx much harder
22:49 Tom_itx err denser i should say
22:50 katsmeow-afk plastics
22:50 rue_mohr ooo I didn't buy my $1 item yet
22:51 rrywolf feels inadequately petted, so curls back up on katsmeow
22:52 GuShH rue_mohr: but you use what you have...
22:52 tsmeow-afk meows and waits to be pe
22:52 ShH pets katsmeow-afk with a l
22:52 rrywolf pets katsmeow-
22:53 tsmeow-afk pets
22:53 furrywolf :)
22:56 rrywolf is hungry, but doesn't have enough energy to leave chair, much less make
22:56 rue_mohr hahaha china is EATING up the whole reprap thing, $9 for a hobbed bolt!
22:57 furrywolf that sounds american to me.
22:57 rue_mohr hahaha 6 reprap bearings are $10, but 20 608 skateboard bearngs are $10 ahahahhahaa
22:59 rue_mohr hahah you cant GIVE away old flopy drives, but the nema17 steppers from them are selling for $25 ea
22:59 furrywolf heh, I probably still have a few floppy drives in storage somewhere...
23:00 rue_mohr ok, here is what I was looking for
23:00 rue_mohr 3mm ABS filiment, 0.9kg, $42
23:00 Triffid_Hunter the quality of china filament is notoriously poor
23:00 furrywolf the tiny little square motors in 5.25" floppy drives? do they actually have a use? heh.
23:01 Triffid_Hunter many, many reprappers have experimented with it, and even those who managed to get decent prints still get some good stuff for when it just gets too damn frustrating
23:01 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, ebay filiment link?
23:01 furrywolf I pulled a few waaay long ago, and found them to not have enough torque for much of anything.
23:01 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: salvaged motors can be made to work but they usually have rather poor numbers for reprapping
23:01 katsmeow-afk i have an olde floppy drive with a 1/4hp Westinghouse 120vac spindle motor, does that count?
23:01 rue_mohr I see 1lb spools from usa for $20
23:02 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, I also have some OLD printer motors, HIGH torque, 1.8 degree
23:02 furrywolf $20/lb for plastic?!
23:02 rue_mohr I know
23:02 furrywolf katsmeow-afk: I have a dual 8" drive in storage... the altair 8800 is sitting on top of it.
23:02 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.ca/itm/3mm-3d-Printer-ABS-Blue-1LB-Plastic-Filament-Coil-Spool-Rod-MakerBot-Reprap-/221051717818?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3377b588ba
23:02 tsmeow-afk shreds some coke bottle plastic, melts it into threads, and hands it to
23:02 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: it's not just torque.. most printer motors are unipolar and designed for the printer's supply voltage, which means they only work over a small range of speeds
23:02 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, I know...
23:03 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: for repraps we specify bipolar motors with a rather low voltage rating (1-3v) so that we have plenty of voltage headroom with a 12v supply to run them really fast
23:03 Tom_itx most of them use nema17 steppers don't they?
23:03 katsmeow-afk would that sorta plastic work? because i can get tons of it as scrap, literally 18-wheeler loads, i think are still there, baled in 4ft and 5ft cubes
23:03 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: many are switching to 24v supplies
23:03 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, most of the mtoors I have are 1.8V
23:04 rue_mohr 2-5A
23:04 katsmeow-afk Triffid_Hunter?
23:04 katsmeow-afk would that sorta plastic work? because i can get tons of it as scrap, literally 18-wheeler loads, i think are still there, baled in 4ft and 5ft cubes
23:04 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: the process of turning it into usably good filament is far more expensive than the raw material itserlf
23:04 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, that plastic link look right/legit?
23:04 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, ABS and ...PLA?
23:04 Triffid_Hunter katsmeow-afk: PP? maybe.. the quality required in filament for repraps is quite high though
23:04 katsmeow-afk whatever 2liter bottles are made of,, it's pretty tough stuff
23:04 furrywolf PET
23:05 rue_mohr HDPE, dont know if you can print with it
23:05 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: does it say $30 shipping for you too?
23:05 katsmeow-afk what's a typical run use in weight of filament?
23:05 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, ah, about $20
23:05 rue_mohr er no, wrong like $30
23:05 rue_mohr line
23:06 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, this has to be used in the industry for soemthing else
23:06 Triffid_Hunter katsmeow-afk: small parts can take only a few dozen grams, most spools are ~1kg although 2.5kg and larger are becoming more common
23:06 katsmeow-afk if you can print with aluminum, i can get 100's of beer cans per week too
23:06 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: plastic welding for repairing machinery and cars and things
23:06 rue_mohr I'm sure its marked up cause its reprap
23:06 Triffid_Hunter katsmeow-afk: heh better of printing something in PLA then using it instead of wax in a casting process
23:06 rue_mohr its for thermal welding?
23:07 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: however even the plastic welding rods can be too poor quality for repraps.. they specify 3mm, can be as high as 3.5 or as low as 2.4
23:07 rue_mohr http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ABS-Plastic-welding-rods-3mm-black-pack-40-pcs-/280765907814
23:07 furrywolf rather than feeding filament, build something you can feed abs dwv pipe into, for a while $0.50/lb from the hardware store.
23:08 Triffid_Hunter and the diameter can vary over the length of the roll, so you calibrate for one end and your prints look like crap again as soon as it changes
23:08 furrywolf s/while/whole
23:08 rue_mohr they need to go by volume dispenced and not mm of filament
23:08 Triffid_Hunter for reference, a 1% difference in cross section is visible, a 2% difference can change a print from great to crap
23:09 Triffid_Hunter rue_mohr: I do, but we don't have a way to measure the cross sectional area accurately enough to be more useful than calibrating for quality filament
23:10 Triffid_Hunter couple that with the fact that cross sectional area is proportional to square of diameter and you start to see why good filament is relatively expensive to make :)
23:10 furrywolf feed the molten plastic into a heated chamber with a piston at the back, then use the piston to extrude it. when the piston is at the end of the chamber, release the drive for the piston, block off the nozzle, and feed more input plastic until the piston is pushed to the back of the chamber, then go back to printing.
23:11 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: feel free to implement :)
23:11 furrywolf I'm not interested in plastic parts. I like metal parts. :P
23:11 furrywolf ABS plastic pipe is dirt cheap. a system based on melting a quantity then extruding it could let you use it...
23:12 katsmeow-afk yeas, i agree, metering based on filament diameter isn't ta good way to do it
23:12 Tom_itx someone in #linuxcnc is talking about making an extruder
23:12 furrywolf the hardest part is avoiding bubbles.
23:12 furrywolf (from what I can tell thinking about it, at least)
23:12 Tom_itx he has plastic chips to feed it
23:13 katsmeow-afk shame i don't do nix
23:13 furrywolf how liquid can abs pipe get? liquid enough that you can get bubbles to float out via gravity? I've only heated it up enough to bend/form, never enough to flow.
23:14 katsmeow-afk you can dissolve it to the point it's like water
23:14 Triffid_Hunter furrywolf: no, bubbles won't come out by gravity, it burns before then
23:14 rue_mohr Triffid_Hunter, I have an idea for a head that would fix all the volume problems
23:14 katsmeow-afk Tom ,i seen oone talking about anything in #linuxcnc
23:14 furrywolf hrmm... how do all the pellet-fed injection molding machines avoid bubbles?
23:15 katsmeow-afk slow melting and artificial gravity
23:15 furrywolf I wouldn't trust the average reprap person to make a centrifuge, or anything else capable of building up any form of stored energy. :)
23:16 katsmeow-afk you could try a vaccum
23:18 furrywolf looks like big machines just mix it really well with a screw, and somehow the bubbles get worked out.
23:18 katsmeow-afk if you add pellets on;y at the top of the melt, and keep cycling a vac over it, all bubbles will form at thet opa nd bes oonp opped by the vac
23:18 tsmeow-afk looks at her space bar ste
23:19 katsmeow-afk if you add pellets on;y at the top of the melt, and keep cycling a vac over it, all bubbles will form at the top and be soon popped by the vac
23:19 katsmeow-afk be rather energy intensive, i imagine
23:20 katsmeow-afk else, feed melted filimaents into a vac chamber, with unbubbled liquid pumped out the botom
23:21 rue_mohr look at it this way, then they do injection moulding, there aren't problems with bubbles from the pelets that go in
23:21 katsmeow-afk the EPA would be all over you for venting volatiles
23:21 furrywolf well, if you have a way to remove bubbles, you don't need nice filaments... chunks of abs pipe would make cheap feedstock...
23:22 rue_mohr http://www.spraystore.co.nz/plastic-13mm-strip-metre-p-2648.html
23:22 furrywolf abs pipe melts _really_ easily, and starts forming pizza cheese like hairs between everything if you try moving it. heh.
23:22 rue_mohr !?!?!?!?!
23:22 katsmeow-afk "diy pvc pipe chipper!!: drill a hole in tthe top ofy our awn mower, ram in a EMT pipe, crank engine, drop pvc in thrut he emt!"
23:23 furrywolf rue_mohr: $1/ft is expensive.
23:23 rue_mohr $1/meter
23:24 furrywolf $2.89/m
23:24 rue_mohr I guess the overwhelming point is, its just welding plastic
23:24 katsmeow-afk i need a way past the iopscience.iop.org paywall
23:25 furrywolf shotgun. people who think you should pay for access to science don't deserve to live.
23:25 katsmeow-afk http://iopscience.iop.org/1741-2552/9/3/036002/pdf/1741-2552_9_3_036002.pdf
23:26 e_mohr stret
23:27 furrywolf those sites, and individuals who support them, are holding back the progress of the entire planet.
23:27 furrywolf and they should be treated accordingly.
23:28 katsmeow-afk i agree
23:31 GuShH are there any "free energy" channels on freenode?
23:32 furrywolf hopefully not
23:33 GuShH I wanted to post this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp2tsPlWid8
23:33 furrywolf I've oft contemplated a service where students can run a proxy to allow the rest of the world to access articles through their ip-filtered school accounts, and dump a few million articles as torrents...
23:34 furrywolf I need friends in russia first though.
23:34 GuShH why Russia?
23:35 furrywolf so no one bothers to attempt arresting the people running it.
23:35 GuShH I can't believe recharging a fire extinguisher costs almost as much as buying a new one, if not more.
23:35 GuShH Either this place is nuts or I'm missing the point
23:38 Tom_itx there is no point
23:38 Tom_itx it's dull
23:38 GuShH I'd much rather buy a new one than have an old one recharged if the cost is the same
23:40 GuShH I've had one with a stuck gauge that happened to be almost depleted but within the expiry date... thing is, when I needed it I didn't know the needle was stuck.
23:40 GuShH That's a dangerous thing
23:40 furrywolf katsmeow-afk: http://klab.smpp.northwestern.edu/wiki/images/e/e4/Corbett_2012.pdf
23:42 katsmeow-afk woooooooo
23:42 katsmeow-afk you asked kansure to do it?
23:43 furrywolf kansure?
23:43 furrywolf I couldn't find a copy of it directly, so started looking up the authors... that link was off konrad kording's website.
23:44 katsmeow-afk i know the proxy system you describe exists, but i am not one lucky enough to have a way into it
23:45 furrywolf just because the publication is run by anti-progress idiots doesn't mean the author is one, and in this case, he has pdfs of most things he's contributed to.
23:45 furrywolf http://klab.smpp.northwestern.edu/wiki/index.php5/Publications
23:50 katsmeow-afk Towards Perceiving Robots as Humans:
23:50 katsmeow-afk Three Handshake Models Face the
23:50 katsmeow-afk Turing-like Handshake Test
23:50 furrywolf "You may access, download, store, search and print hard copy of text. Copying must be limited to making a single printed copy or electronic copies of a reasonable number of individual articles or other similar items. No text accessed via the Service may be made available to a third party" I wonder if that applies to your own articles if you download them yourself? lol
23:50 ace4016 "Turing-like Handshake Test" does that mean you check to see if they crush your hand or just firmly grab it like a human handshake? :P
23:51 ace4016 (im' kidding...don't answer the rhetorical question)
23:51 katsmeow-afk i figure it this way: no one else is intereted in reading what i generally read, so sharing is impossible even if i wanted to force a copy onto someone else
23:51 katsmeow-afk http://klab.smpp.northwestern.edu/wiki/images/4/48/AvrahamEtAl_Revised_Final_Mar26.pdf
23:51 katsmeow-afk see, i gace an url to the original
23:51 ace4016 most papers are fairly useless
23:51 katsmeow-afk see if he goes to get it.....
23:52 ace4016 as long as you know the general idea, you can recreate the results usually
23:52 rrywolf has already downloaded and saved several pdfs from that site, since they sound like they might be interes
23:52 ace4016 that's what i learned in grad school...
23:52 ace4016 they get into details they don't need to and don't explain certain details enough to be useful
23:52 katsmeow-afk i am trying to get around the stumbling blocks that put McKinsky and Sing in their graves
23:54 furrywolf anything to do with sensing motor outputs is interesting to me, both for fun gadgets (they already have brain-controlled animatronic cat ears...), and because so many of the people I meet on irc are disabled...
23:54 katsmeow-afk i recently deconstructed a db of common sense entered by the public at large, into a common sense reasoning system
23:54 katsmeow-afk it's a fiasco
23:55 katsmeow-afk [21:45] <katsmeow-afk> [[506U78]] Synonym [[nelarabine]]
23:55 katsmeow-afk [21:46] <katsmeow-afk> [[Wiktionary:Frequency lists/Turkish WordList 10K]] is Finnish for [[585648]]
23:55 katsmeow-afk [21:46] <katsmeow-afk> [[Wiktionary:Frequency lists/Turkish WordList 10K]] is Finnish for [[5017]]
23:55 katsmeow-afk [21:46] <katsmeow-afk> [[Wiktionary:Frequency lists/Turkish WordList 10K]] is Finnish for [[573893]]
23:55 katsmeow-afk [21:46] <katsmeow-afk> see, garbage
23:55 katsmeow-afk [21:43] <katsmeow-afk> [[5 books]] can [[standing on their ends]]
23:55 katsmeow-afk [21:44] <katsmeow-afk> [[Wiktionary:Votes/sy-2007-07/User:Thryduulf]] is Norwegian for [[5 July 2007 On principle]]
23:56 katsmeow-afk and basic errors, such as "drinking lots of water make you want to pee"
23:57 katsmeow-afk it makes you *need* to pee, but drinking lots of water does not instantly make you desire peeing
23:57 theBear aww c'mon, that's already as smart as a 6-8 y.old, give it a chance
23:57 katsmeow-afk otehrwise, there's be people guzzling water all day so they can enjoy peeing
23:58 theBear oh, want... hehe
23:58 theBear damned ambiguous language
23:58 katsmeow-afk hie Bear :-)
23:58 katsmeow-afk yeas, for real
23:58 theBear howzit ?
23:58 katsmeow-afk sameole sameole, a few ew challenges
23:59 furrywolf heh, the author has a link to the EFF on his website, as well as lots of pdfs... looks like he supports the free exchange of information.
23:59 ace4016 but there are some people that enjoy peeing
23:59 ace4016 >_>
23:59 katsmeow-afk hoping the oncoming storms on radar actually get here and drop an inch of rain
23:59 furrywolf I've generally noticed that needing to pee makes me want to pee.
23:59 theBear specially when you don't want to :)
23:59 theBear ie. just got into warm bed