#robotics Logs
Jun 25 2012
#robotics Calendar
00:23 katsmeow-afk was he aggravated?
00:31 rue_mohr na
00:39 katsmeow-afk i keep workingup a sweat
00:39 katsmeow-afk i forgot i had all the airflow shut off, it's cool outside, but loud and buggy
00:40 katsmeow-afk didja learn anything at the faire?
00:40 katsmeow-afk sword fighting while the code is compiling?
00:40 katsmeow-afk take lots of pics?
00:41 katsmeow-afk did any robots follow you home?
00:43 rue_mohr I'm gonna see what I got for pics soon
00:43 rue_mohr I kinda had to stay at the table and couldn't get around much
00:44 katsmeow-afk o
00:44 gongoputch I have 2 identical continuous servos that I am driving from my arduino. One stays totally still at 90 deg. The other slowly turns at 90 but is still at 85.
00:45 gongoputch Is there an adjustment or a tuning procedure for servos?
00:45 rue_mohr yes
00:45 rue_mohr they have a verry short rnage that they will respond to
00:46 rue_mohr usually you want to set the servo controller for 1.5ms, and adjust the voltage divider until the motors stops
00:46 gongoputch I even looked up the pulse widths for this model and put them in instead of the defaults
00:46 rue_mohr did yo use fxed resisotrs or variable resistors to replace the position pot?
00:47 orlok or did you just leave it in?
00:47 gongoputch I ordered then continuous
00:47 orlok gongoputch: how are you driving it? via a 0-256 "position" value, or direct pulse length?
00:47 gongoputch I am gonna have to open this up, aren't I?
00:47 orlok nah, but i would anyway
00:48 orlok How are you getting from your degree values to the pwm values?
00:48 gongoputch from my understanding (admitedly superficial) of the standard arduino servo lib, it varies the pulse width
00:49 gongoputch just using Servo.write(90) (for instance)
00:49 orlok some of the standard arduino libraries kinda fall apart if you look at the too hard
00:49 gongoputch I am getting that.
00:49 gongoputch I could always hack^H adjust the value in the code
00:49 orlok control the pwm directly
00:50 orlok it makes more sense for you anyway
00:50 gongoputch is there harm in letting a misadjusted servo work?
00:50 orlok nah, especially since you dont have stoppers to hit against
00:51 gongoputch the defaults for the limits on the widths were not in agreement with the servos data sheet either
00:51 orlok the values that are being sent will be pwm values of 500ms to 4500ms or so
00:51 gongoputch IIRC, it was 500 - 2400
00:51 orlok i think, its been a while
00:52 gongoputch or ... that might have been the default
00:52 gongoputch it is late
00:52 gongoputch there is some DETAIL to this kind of shit, I am finding out
00:54 gongoputch I am about 2 months in, 1st couple of weeks I was messing with a velleman k8055
00:54 orlok a lot of the time they restrict the default movement range to 90 degrees
00:55 orlok as not all servos can handle 180 degrees of movement
00:55 orlok anyway, i would figure out what pwm values are being sent when you set them to 85 or 90 degrees
00:56 orlok then you can figure out the "stationary" value for each servo
00:56 gongoputch I thought I had one of those, until I did some serial print-debugging and found my variable was the wrong tyep and when arduino doesn't know what you told it, it goes back to 0
00:56 gongoputch I guess this is when a logic probe comes in handy?
00:57 orlok CRO.. but no, i'd just open up the servo library
00:57 orlok add a print statement for whatevers being used to set the pwm output
00:57 gongoputch man, I am really feling like I jumped into the dep end of a very large pool :)
00:58 orlok i miss playing with robots.. a bit..
00:58 orlok i have a daughter now who takes up all my spare time
00:58 orlok she's awesome
00:58 gongoputch two boys for me, same feeling
00:58 orlok i hope she's interested in this stuff when she's older
00:59 orlok are you using the hardware pwm pins?
00:59 orlok or the "soft pwm"
01:00 gongoputch my oldest is 13, he wants a joystick to play minecraft with. I have a box FILLED with the old game port style sticks. Told him if we build an arduino adapter, he can have his poick :)
01:00 gongoputch that is a good question ....
01:01 gongoputch 9 & 10 on a mega2560 .... doesn't have the little tildes on the board. I'll look up the pin assignments
01:03 orlok ahh heh
01:03 orlok you know how the old gameport joysticks worked?
01:03 orlok and also the main difference between "PC" joysticks and all the "other" joysticks?
01:04 gongoputch I am *somewhat* acquainted with the antiquated interfaces. I used to mess ith stuff back in the mid 80's
01:04 gongoputch they used a cap and timed the discharge IIRC
01:05 orlok 2 potentiometers
01:05 orlok so the gameport's could be used to measure the value of 4 potentiometers and some buttons heh
01:05 gongoputch about as advanced as I got back then was banging bits on parallel ports
01:06 gongoputch seems like another good beginner's project
01:06 orlok thats why they were great for flight sim's
01:06 orlok you didnt just have binary states for the joystick position, you could pull up just a tiny bit
01:07 orlok but it did mean you had to calibrate and recalibrate the damn things all the time
01:07 orlok which is almost exactly the same issue you have now
01:07 rue_mohr modify the joystick
01:07 rue_mohr there is a +5 pin and a gnd pin
01:07 gongoputch I tore an old one apart, soldiered some pins to the pots and put a couple micro servos on that
01:08 rue_mohr make the jostick into a set of voltage dividers
01:08 rue_mohr then put the result into the ADC of an avr or arduino
01:08 gongoputch yes, I found no matter where I put the stick the servos chatteres
01:08 rue_mohr servos require input pulses, not a variable voltage
01:09 gongoputch so THEN I cut the cable on a Wii nunchuck, nd got the 2 to point where ever it pointed.
01:09 rue_mohr I must be tired, yo seem to be changing topic every sentance
01:10 gongoputch no, it is probably me who is tired ... and babbling
01:10 gongoputch the nunchuck as an input device held them stock still
01:12 gongoputch it amazes me the extent that these 'proprietary' devices use standard protocols and can be repurposed
01:13 orlok theres a nice set of libraries/utils for the wiimote interface
01:13 gongoputch almost TOO many choices
01:16 gongoputch not enough time to explore everything that seems interesting, AND sleep, eat, etc.
01:17 gongoputch speaking of which ... thanks for the guidance.
02:56 R0b0t1 GuShH, haha, you were on hackaday.
02:58 R0b0t1 GuShH: http://hackaday.com/2012/06/20/more-diy-solder-flux/
04:04 katsmeow-afk washtenaw_community_college (annArbor Michigan) is selling 17" Dell monitors for $10 , you pick it up, no shipping
07:06 katsmeow-afk You can lead a computer to knowledge, but you can't make it think.
07:15 Tom_itx even if they thirst for it?
07:16 katsmeow-afk right
08:50 rue_mohr 17" is out of style now, wow
08:55 katsmeow-afk i think 19 is too big, i have one, i don't think i want another as long as 17's are under $20 each and 20's are over
09:26 rue_mohr I'd go for more 17's if they are 3:4
09:26 rue_mohr the resolution on the widescreen ones sucks
09:30 Skwint mines 16:10 and I like it
09:30 Skwint but it's 24"
09:30 Skwint I now prefer it to two 17" because I can fit more lines of source code vertically
09:31 Skwint if they'd only make a monitor which was 1400x1400 I'd be really happy
09:31 Skwint I need to take the big wasted empty bit on the right and stick it on the bottom
10:07 katsmeow-afk beside, the 19 will just barely fit under the kvm bolted up under the shelf Tiggr lives on, i keep ducking down to see up under it in case iam missing some lines
10:07 katsmeow-afk obviously tho, i need a different kvm switch system
10:10 katsmeow-afk 85x Motorola LM337 | Voltage Regulator | Adjustable | -1.2 to 47V | Bi Polar |
10:10 katsmeow-afk US $19.99
10:10 katsmeow-afk Time Left: 2d 06h 17m
10:10 katsmeow-afk those are TO-204, like a TO-3 but smaller
10:36 katsmeow-afk 1497x NEW Agilent HLMP-C323 LEDs Yellow | 25 Deg | T-1 3/4 (5mm) | 2.1V
10:36 katsmeow-afk $15
12:00 furrywolf bleh... it's fucking raining again.
12:01 katsmeow-afk it isn't here, and i am wondering if the dry season didn't start early this yr
12:02 katsmeow-afk but it is late June, and we have had no-fireworks alerts here many years becasue of dry conditons
12:03 furrywolf here we have a perpetual ban on any fun fireworks. it's for our own good.
12:04 katsmeow-afk Thursday : 104° F | 64° F
12:04 katsmeow-afk Thursday
12:04 katsmeow-afk Clear. High of 104F. Winds less than 5 mph.
12:04 furrywolf ugh
12:04 rrywolf is unhappy over
12:05 katsmeow-afk by 10am, it's difficult to be in the sun, by 11am it's difficult to be in the shade, and by noon it's difficult to be under tin roof
12:06 katsmeow-afk so i often goto bed and resume when life is being less difficult
12:06 furrywolf siestas have a long history for just that reason. :)
12:07 katsmeow-afk but i think the lits i am putting int he cellar will help a lot towards being active whenever, despite the a/c not being re-installed yet
12:07 katsmeow-afk i was puttng lights in 14 yrs ago, and was stopped by dogs
12:07 furrywolf put an old radiator with electric fan on a circulating pump, and use your pool as a thermal store
12:07 katsmeow-afk needed lites to mix concrete
12:08 katsmeow-afk the pool-tank is out in the sun
12:08 katsmeow-afk the big pond i was building the dam for, the pool was to be 30x30x30 triangle, that was to be a thermal sink
12:10 katsmeow-afk i got ~90% of the dam done, it's 60ft wide at the base, ~12ft tall
12:10 katsmeow-afk that was a lot of dirt, and apparently wasted time and effort
12:15 furrywolf ugh... my allergies are horrible today for some reason.
12:16 katsmeow-afk not enough drugs?
12:16 furrywolf usually rain makes them better, but today...
12:17 katsmeow-afk ah, sinus pressure, pressure changes
12:17 katsmeow-afk that's not an alergy
12:18 katsmeow-afk or,, maybe the rain is making molds and fungi shed pollen or spores or things
12:18 rrywolf is quite sure the constantly running noise, itchy eyes, etc is aller
12:18 GuShH but furrywolf said when it rains it gets better
12:19 GuShH ideally because particulate will no longer be suspended in air
12:19 katsmeow-afk they will be inside, where it is not raining, and where furry is
12:19 GuShH and with rain often comes wind
12:19 furrywolf I swept and vacuumed yesterday... might have stirred a bunch up indoors.
12:20 ShH saw a mexican mafioso yeste
12:20 GuShH why must they act so suspiciously.
12:21 katsmeow-afk you saw him yesterday? how does one yesterday?
12:21 GuShH they aren't smart enough to dress and behave like the rest of us
12:22 furrywolf brb, going to find something to microwave and dump some insanity sauce on top, see if it makes my sinuses function better.
12:23 GuShH I take it that's a spicy sauce
12:24 GuShH furrywolf: should I invest in an old TDS1012?
12:24 furrywolf not familiar with that model. I have a tds220.
12:24 GuShH older?
12:25 katsmeow-afk i has no TDS
12:25 furrywolf hrmm, looks like about the same specs.
12:25 GuShH 1 gig sample 100 meg equivalent analog bandwidth
12:26 furrywolf mine's 1gsps 60mhz, although it seems to do 100 just fine.
12:26 GuShH tek is very well known for selling things you already own.
12:26 tsmeow-afk coughs at these num
12:26 GuShH buy unlock code for software XYZ, which is already installed.
12:26 ShH fr
12:26 furrywolf looks like yours is a newer version, with usb, color, etc...
12:27 GuShH looks b&w on all the pics I found
12:27 GuShH says b&w or color option
12:27 furrywolf ah
12:27 GuShH option means more $$$, they don't even give you the interface module I think
12:27 katsmeow-afk if i wind out a 8903 at 5ns across the whole screen, and then digitise that at 256 samples across the screen, the equivalent sps is 51.2 Gsps
12:27 katsmeow-afk err, 8903 = 7903
12:27 GuShH theres no usb on the front either, if it's on the back chances are theres a custom interface and you need the right module to use it
12:28 furrywolf katsmeow-afk: I have a tek 465b too... which sees just as much use. the right tool for the job. :P
12:28 GuShH I want a 475 :(
12:28 katsmeow-afk i can wind out a 4104 to 1ns across the whole screen, and get an equivalent sps digitiesd at 256 Gsps
12:29 katsmeow-afk er, 7104
12:29 katsmeow-afk it must be time for my nap
12:29 furrywolf the digital is nice, as you can do fun things like show the waveform before the trigger point.
12:29 GuShH you gotta have both
12:29 katsmeow-afk use a delay line, and several analog scopes can do that
12:29 GuShH anyway price tag is too high for me
12:30 furrywolf and saving waveforms, and doing math on them, and things like that
12:30 GuShH saving the raw data is very useful
12:30 furrywolf analog is faster, and you get a lot more "feel" with the trace.
12:30 GuShH depends, only if you compare against consumer scopes
12:31 GuShH or rather, entry grade dsos.
12:31 tsmeow-afk is drooling over a Tek digitising scope that runs over 50Gsps, and is actually affordable
12:31 furrywolf not depends... is. I can tell what kind of high frequency noise there is, etc, by the fuzzyness of the trace, and little things like that.
12:31 katsmeow-afk not affordable to *me* , but it's not $50,000 atm
12:31 GuShH it depends, a top of the line lecroy will feel more lively than your dusty old CRO.
12:31 furrywolf I could measure all these things on a digital 'scope as well, of course, but it's more steps.
12:32 GuShH heh theres a tds220 for sale, costs a lot more than the other tds.
12:32 GuShH let them dream.
12:32 furrywolf I need to get the gpib board for mine one of these years...
12:33 furrywolf looks like the 1012 does a lot more than my 220.
12:34 furrywolf but, I got mine cheap, and with my budget, that's what matters.
12:34 tsmeow-afk looks for a nap to
12:34 ShH points out he also needs one c
12:35 katsmeow-afk GuShH, you cannot import it anyhow
12:35 katsmeow-afk gnitesssszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
12:35 GuShH these are local sales
12:35 GuShH katsmeow-afk: you are acting like some retards from ##e all of a sudden right there
12:37 furrywolf brb, nuker will make internet drop offline
12:37 myself ahoy
12:37 GuShH hi
12:38 myself Owned my Neato XV-11 for almost a year, mostly it just vacuums floors without complaint. Today I got the itch to start messing with it. Been on forums and stuff all day while I should be working. ;)
12:38 myself Figured I'd lurk in here and see if any other neato owners are in here, and check back after work..
12:40 GuShH I don't think this is a consumer-robotics channel
12:40 GuShH this is a place where people create their own robots from scratch
12:40 GuShH But if you want to mod it, add some lasers and a command station for your cat.
12:44 myself well I couldn't find a consumer robotics channel, so y'all are stuck with me. ;) For reference: http://uk.neatorobotics.com/programmers-manual-2
12:45 myself Also, sometime in the next few days I'm gonna dig up the part numbers from those fanuc servo drives sitting in my garage (long story) and try to dig up some manuals..
12:46 GuShH lol
13:40 Tom_itx http://www2.electronicproducts.com/-article-FANE_Household_Robots_June2012-html.aspx
13:40 Tom_itx uh huh
13:43 furrywolf I have an empty box that tells me it will close in 13 seconds, and nothing else.
13:44 Tom_itx well click on the X then
13:45 furrywolf idiot web designers.
13:45 Tom_itx yeah they pop those stupid ads over those alot
13:46 furrywolf none of those robots seem useful except the pool cleaning one... and those have been around for ages.
13:47 Tom_itx was sorta my reaction
13:49 furrywolf the bed is useless. the window one has to be manually moved to each window with special magnetic guides installed. there's nothing any more robotic about that washing machine than any other washing machine, other than having a network chip on the controller board. there's no mention of how the pet-cleanup robot finds things to clean, and looks manual. and the pool "robots" aren't very bright, and have been around for way too long to
13:50 furrywolf I remember being at a pool place a few years ago, and they had one of those irobots in a big plexiglass tank, as a demo.
13:51 Tom_itx http://www2.electronicproducts.com/How_MIT_s_glucose_based_fuel_cell_uses_the_brain_to_power_bioelectric_devices-article-fajb_glucose_fuel_cell_jun2012-html.aspx
13:54 furrywolf I want one of those combo washers and dryers... how's that for a robot? :)
13:55 furrywolf and then I'll annoy people greatly by using an electric dryer on my solar panels rather than just hanging the clothes to dry. :)
13:55 myself I'd be happy if my flor cleaning ro bot could recognize that it's running over clothing, pick it up, drag it to the washer, and chuck it in...
13:56 myself wow, sorry typos.. leg on ssh and I wasn't proofreading
13:56 Tom_itx what happens when your floor cleaning robot runs over your pet's poop?
13:57 furrywolf Tom_itx: then you use the obvious manual wand (on the long coiled hose) to clean it up yourself.
13:57 furrywolf oh, you mean his, not the one you pasted.
13:58 myself my robot is my only pet, problem solved.
13:59 Tom_itx i read somewhere about that happening is why i mentioned it
14:01 myself ew. Yeah, that would be gross.
14:01 furrywolf lol
14:09 GuShH you should design and sell a turd detection module for them
14:09 GuShH the obvious marketing solution is to sell them as turd cleaners.
14:10 GuShH or boast about it being an extra feature, and make the consumer pay more for it.
14:59 furrywolf bleh. why is it that I can't find at least half the music I try downloading?
15:00 rrywolf gives up trying to find the boss martians and moonlight towers, and downloads some danzig inst
20:01 katsmeow-afk http://mosaic.disp.duke.edu:90/aware/static/html/boats.html <<== zoom in on the plane to see a new type of plane with 3 sets of main wings
20:49 katsmeow-afk [12:24] <GuShH> katsmeow-afk: you are acting like some retards from ##e all of a sudden right there <<== right where?
20:49 katsmeow-afk by going to get a nap?
21:33 furrywolf http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/2012/06/21/20120621german-naked-shoppers-pack-supermarkets.html something you're not likely to see in the US...
21:40 e_mohr raises his hand and yes, "I'm al
21:42 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, they cant support planes over their length with only one set of wings now :)
21:44 furrywolf ... wtf.
21:44 furrywolf <katsmeow-afk> http://mosaic.disp.duke.edu:90/aware/static/html/boats.html is "some content that falls behind the recalcitrant iip widget and you never see"
21:48 rue_mohr everyone at the faire, less me and one other guy, were using steppers for motion systems
21:48 furrywolf and you're using air muscles?
21:49 rue_mohr dc motors with feedback
21:50 rue_mohr where has "army of evil robots" come up before ?
22:33 furrywolf "The snapshot mode captures a full dataset in 14 seconds and stores the information for future rendering and analysis." source of ghosting, I'd imagine.
22:33 rue_mohr ?
22:33 rue_mohr ah
22:45 Tom_itx ok let's not do that again