#robotics Logs

Jun 12 2012

00:33 rue_mohr yay! my homework is done and submitted
00:38 rue_mohr oops but I forgot to fix the kettle
00:39 rue_mohr the cord broke, it goes BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTT and emiits blue light and smoke when you try to use it
00:41 furrywolf sounds like you shouldn't try to use it.
00:41 rue_mohr no I need to fix it
00:42 rue_mohr I want the energy disspated in the element, not the cord
00:42 rue_mohr its not actaully a kettle, its a pokle
00:43 rue_mohr not quite pot, not quite kettle
00:43 rue_mohr I can make noodles in it
00:55 rue_mohr hmm, I think I could use a state machine for 'encoding' that caster wheel thing
00:55 rue_mohr I would need a rom, latch and oscillator
00:55 rue_mohr it would prolly take about 30mA
00:57 rue_mohr Ididn't get the responce time data I needed to set the frqencies
01:34 rrywolf curls up on katsmeow-afk for bed
01:42 katsmeow-afk hey......... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Capacitor.jpg <<== that's the caps in a Sansui AU7700 !!
01:42 katsmeow-afk umm, i must be a geek
01:43 rue_mohr heh
01:43 rue_mohr :) good one kat!
01:44 rrywolf falls asleep on the geekcat's
01:44 rue_mohr DAMNIT with 2 binary digits, you can only count to 3!
01:45 rue_mohr save
01:45 katsmeow-afk 4
01:45 katsmeow-afk 0, 1, 2, 3
01:45 furrywolf or from -2 to 1!
01:46 rue_mohr Priority | Qualifier | Modifier
01:46 rue_mohr -----------------------------------------------
01:46 rue_mohr 900 A&0b1110000==0 Step=0
01:46 rue_mohr 890 A&0b1110000==0b0010Step=1
01:46 rue_mohr 880 A&0b1110000==0b0100Step=2
01:46 rue_mohr 870 A&0b1110000==0b0110Step=3
01:46 rue_mohr 860 A&0b1110000==0b1000Step=4
01:46 rue_mohr 850 A&0b0001100==0b0000OldP=0
01:46 rue_mohr 840 A&0b0001100==0b0100OldP=1
01:46 rue_mohr 830 A&0b0001100==0b1000OldP=2
01:46 rue_mohr 820 A&0b0001100==0b1100OldP=3
01:46 rue_mohr 810 A&0b0000011==0b00 NewP=0
01:46 rue_mohr 800 A&0b0000011==0b01 NewP=1
01:47 rue_mohr 790 A&0b0000011==0b10 NewP=2
01:47 rue_mohr 780 A&0b0000011==0b11 NewP=3
01:47 rue_mohr now its easer to make the state machine
01:50 rrywolf sighs and goes to bed with no pets a
01:51 e_mohr rocks back and forth in his chair chanting "lsb on the ri
01:53 katsmeow-afk html can be so noisey sometimes : The device with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor_correction#Active_PFC" target="top">active power factor correction<img src="./images/120px-Arrow_Blue_Right_001.png" style="margin: 0 0 0 0;width: 1em;border: 0;"></a>,
01:54 rue_mohr the power factor is 1em?
01:54 katsmeow-afk no
01:54 rue_mohr :(
01:56 rue_mohr oh dear, this got more complex
01:57 rue_mohr I need to multiply out the common dinominators
01:57 rue_mohr no I dont
01:57 rue_mohr I just have to redefine...
01:58 rue_mohr I really need bit grouping
02:14 katsmeow-afk there, i put up a webpage describing the "modified sine invertor", and why some things will not work on one
02:17 katsmeow-afk and i won't bother to give the url here because furry doesn't want to know the reason a microwave works poorly if at alll on a squarewave "invertor"
10:20 furrywolf I've never much cared the exact reason, but my first guess would be the square wave has a lower peak voltage, and since microwaves work by doubling, rectifying, and filtering the input, they, like anything else that rectifies and filters the input, look mostly at the peak voltage (barring pf correction), and end up running at low voltage.
10:21 any12305647 http://designerthinking.com/invertors.html
10:23 furrywolf some APFC works instead by using a buck converter on the input; these usually respond very poorly to modified sine.
10:23 furrywolf boost converter
10:23 any12305647 DesignerThinking.com/pfc.html
10:23 furrywolf they aren't smart enough to look at the actual waveform, and end up over-boosting the input and frying the filter caps
10:25 furrywolf there's been issues with some brands computer psus frying the caps as soon as the power goes out if you use them on a modified sine ups...
10:26 any12305647 when it "goes out" ??
10:27 furrywolf when the mains supply goes out, the UPS switches to battery power, and starts supplying a modified sine wave in place of the pure sine wave the psu was running on before.
10:27 any12305647 obviously, but then?
10:28 furrywolf some apfc works using a boost converter, where the input goes through an inductor to a switching element to ground, and a chip that boosts the lower parts of the sine wave up to be the same voltage as the higher parts, so it keeps drawing current the entire cycle, not just the peaks.
10:29 furrywolf some of these don't have any actual feedback it seems, and when given a wave that's not sine, end up over-boosting, and pop the big filter capacitors.
10:29 any12305647 aahhh, bad design
10:30 furrywolf speaking of pfc, did you see the page with the fake chinese ppfc transformers?
10:31 any12305647 yeas
10:32 any12305647 one loop of wire thru small cement brick
10:32 furrywolf or bits of scrap steel, or an actual core but with no windings, etc...
10:42 furrywolf meh, plane running a bit late today.
10:42 any12305647 but that is normal
10:44 katsmeow-afk are the two pages essentially correct and adequate?
10:44 furrywolf I think so. I mostly just scanned them. trying to do too many things at once.
10:44 katsmeow-afk k
10:46 furrywolf heh, glancing at the news... "If approved by voters, the initiative will enact an ordinance that says corporations shall not have the rights of persons or the people as guaranteed by the Constitution, Bill of Rights and 14th Amendment"
10:47 furrywolf I predict it passes, and we'll have yet another local law that the federal government will sue us over.
10:47 furrywolf we already have laws making it a crime to enforce any provision of the patriot act, to recruit minors for military service, and a bunch of other things...
10:48 furrywolf I think the military recruiting one is still in the courts, with the feds saying we don't have the right to make decisions like that for ourself.
10:48 furrywolf ourselves
10:48 katsmeow-afk which "ourselves"?
10:49 furrywolf voters
10:50 tsmeow-afk sighs,, WHICH vot
10:50 furrywolf the local cities here keep passing laws, often with a vast majority of votes, that the federal government keeps taking the cities to court for.
10:50 katsmeow-afk Californina, usa, north america,, who?
10:50 furrywolf that particular one is Arcata, CA.
10:50 katsmeow-afk o
10:50 katsmeow-afk like legal pot
10:50 furrywolf yep
10:51 furrywolf even when something is approved by a majority of voters, the federal government doesn't care. voters don't matter; politicians and corporate interests do.
10:53 katsmeow-afk I should probably say about here that some computer psu makers have designed PFC'd psu with no feedback to the PFC circuit about it's own output, it's a stupid design that's not adaptable to the computer's power draw in real life, and as such it will overboost the internal high voltage when operating on "modified square waves"
10:53 katsmeow-afk and blow the high voltage capacitors because it knows no better without that feedback. This doesn't make PFC a bad idea, but without that feedback it's like building cars with sheet steel in place of glass windshields, the car will still go fast, but you'll have no clue when you get there.
10:54 furrywolf yes, in some of the local cities, it's actually a crime to enforce any part of the patriot act. I doubt the local cops would get away with actually arresting any member of any federal government branch doing so, but so far it hasn't come up. heh.
10:56 furrywolf bbl, time to meet the plane.
10:57 katsmeow-afk k
10:57 katsmeow-afk be ssafe
11:20 charolastra_ any idea where VirtualRadar gets it's location from when it writes "9880.7 km northeast of here at 26.4°."? i have set them in the options and in rtl_modes.py
11:20 charolastra_ ups, wrong channel ;)
12:54 Helios http://imgur.com/FPatz
12:54 Helios http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CReRQb_UZj0
12:55 Helios I made those
12:58 Steffanx Oh, mr solarnrg changed his name
13:03 furrywolf what're they made of?
13:04 Helios abs
13:04 Helios wax
13:04 Helios steel
13:04 Helios platinum cure
13:04 Helios clay
13:06 furrywolf so the ones in the image are probably wax?
15:53 SquirrelCZECH hmm
15:53 uirrelCZECH is in bad situation as begi
15:53 SquirrelCZECH I made simple H-Bridge just from MOSFETS, which works perfect
15:53 SquirrelCZECH but question is, can I use this as DC Motor Controller or I should add something more?
15:55 SquirrelCZECH something like this but without diodes http://schematics.circuitdiagram.net/thumbs/bfi1235544061j.gif
16:50 any61333582 i do not understand, you made the H bridge, but you do not know if you can use it for a motor control? if not for motor control, why did you make it??
20:32 rue_mohr ahi
20:32 rue_mohr how are you controlling the mosfets?
20:33 rue_mohr ah, he left
20:40 zhanx evening
20:50 rrywolf flops next to any61333582, exhau
20:52 zhanx web interface sucked
21:09 e_mohr hands furrywolf a can of b
21:09 rue_mohr I think it fixed me
21:09 rue_mohr I'm not asleep
21:13 Tom_itx but you are getting sleepy
21:13 any61333582 rue is "full of beans" ?
21:21 rue_mohr no I'm ok
21:23 Tom_itx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_qHR_H_2cg
21:23 Tom_itx pretty cool machine
21:24 rue_mohr uh ho, floor you can eat off of
21:24 rue_mohr haha their turning a huge pieve of metal into shavings
21:24 Tom_itx pretty cool what all it does for one machine though
21:26 rue_mohr whyly cr**. the set of heads must be worth as much as the machine
21:31 rue_mohr wonder how many chunks of stocka nd how many bits they broke off before getting that demo right
21:32 orlok what clip? didnt catch it..
21:32 orlok this the 5 or 6 axis CNC machining a set of heads out of solid alloy?
21:33 rue_mohr if they wanted to impress me, they should have had it make itself a new head, then load it and make something else with it
21:39 Tom_itx heh
21:39 Tom_itx i'm sure they ran simulated cuts first
21:39 rue_mohr that dosn't always save the bits
21:39 Tom_itx they generally use machine wax on stuff like that too
21:39 Tom_itx we did a couple times on some complex parts
21:40 Tom_itx or wood
21:43 Tom_itx rue_mohr
21:43 Tom_itx also note the material is steel
21:43 Tom_itx and
21:43 Tom_itx they used no coolant
21:44 Tom_itx i wonder what the part is for or if it's just a demo
21:44 rue_mohr yea, I was watching the bits to see if they turned blue
21:45 rue_mohr all seem to have kept their cool
21:45 Tom_itx they must have the speeds just right
21:45 Tom_itx yes
21:45 rue_mohr tho I SWEAR I sawa spark in one frame of a hole being drilled
21:45 Tom_itx you usually get sparks cutting steel with carbide inserts
21:45 Tom_itx you may have
21:45 zhanx watching apollo 13 still wants to make me go to the moon
21:46 Tom_itx i saw that this weekend
21:46 Tom_itx the actual return module
21:46 zhanx nice
21:46 Tom_itx zhanx how was the race?
21:46 Tom_itx it's at our space museum
21:46 zhanx good
21:46 zhanx loud
21:46 Tom_itx yeah
21:47 zhanx should have bought better ear protection
21:47 Tom_itx i didn't get to watch it
21:47 zhanx left early due to traffic didn't watch the end
21:47 furrywolf so far I've managed to download 871 bytes of the video.
21:47 furrywolf I'm giving up.
21:47 Tom_itx it's pretty cool
21:47 Tom_itx don't give up
21:48 furrywolf looks like I'm too lagged to IRC too.
21:48 furrywolf bbl.
21:48 zhanx sounds like my connection via wireless due to cable being out
21:48 zhanx storms
21:48 rue_mohr just wireless suckyness
21:48 Tom_itx zhanx you missed the post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_qHR_H_2cg
21:48 zhanx what is it? wireless via phone is slow
21:49 Tom_itx wait til later then
21:49 Tom_itx a 5 or 6 axis cnc
21:49 Tom_itx 3 rotary
21:49 zhanx k
21:50 zhanx 8:58 minutes of video will be a while to load like this
21:50 Tom_itx meh, just load it later
21:51 zhanx yep after the cable comes back on and the rain quits, I bookmarked it
21:53 zhanx the sump in the basement has been running all day
21:53 Tom_itx that's not good
21:53 zhanx well its been storming and raining all day hard
21:54 zhanx all house
21:54 zhanx err old
21:56 katsmeow-afk but still, the rain should stay outside, not come in and keep the sump pump busy
21:57 zhanx well it is :(
21:57 katsmeow-afk via how?
21:58 Tom_itx probably poor drainage around the property
21:58 katsmeow-afk thru the basement walls?
21:58 zhanx i second that since its all rock
21:59 Tom_itx alot of places out east don't have basements
21:59 zhanx its more of a cellar
21:59 katsmeow-afk thn where is the sump pump located?
21:59 katsmeow-afk ah
22:00 katsmeow-afk well, inspect carefully, be sure the water is not dissolving the basement walls as it flows in,,, it's been known to happen
22:00 zhanx renting don't care
22:00 Tom_itx it happened on a new bridge here this week
22:00 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/dscn9305_thing.jpg <-- dude, did anyone build it yet!
22:00 rue_mohr ?
22:01 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/dscn9306_thing.jpg <-- improved version!
22:01 Tom_itx they brought the dam up for a local event opposed to the engineer's opinion and now they're spending another 2 mil to fix it
22:01 zhanx rue ya
22:01 Tom_itx it eroded away the top layers of concrete
22:01 zhanx improved is better
22:02 rue_mohr people whooperate dams dont listen to engineers
22:03 Tom_itx the project was nearly completed too
22:16 furrywolf looks like my connection is working now... earlier: -:- CTCP PING reply from furrywolf: 900.109 seconds
22:16 rrywolf is doing housework, with some Bronx Casket Co turned up to "test current shunt on new meter"
22:19 furrywolf (every stereo has a "test input wiring" volume setting, right?)
22:20 rue_mohr stand on an ungrounded surface and touch the signal conductor with your index finger
22:21 furrywolf these sansuis may not be the best sounding speakers on the planet, but with 7 ft^2 or so of cone area, they sure do make stuff vibrate around...
22:26 katsmeow-afk problem with loud speakers is everyone hears you have them, and if they need them, your's will disappear
22:33 furrywolf the trick is to have ones heavy enough people can't run with them. :)
22:39 katsmeow-afk 6 six 80lbs bags of concrete inside them enough? CAUTION do not build the 500lb speakers outside and then try to carry them inside
22:40 furrywolf grrr, fucking garbage chinese tools. broke another sears vise.
22:40 katsmeow-afk "hello state farm, i carried my speakers inside and set them against the wall, and the mobile home rolled over"
22:40 katsmeow-afk use BIGGER vises
22:40 furrywolf this one fixably at least... broke the snap ring and the bearing on the back of the leadscrew.
22:40 furrywolf the jaws stuck together. I broke it trying to OPEN it.
22:40 furrywolf fucking chinese garbage.
22:41 rrywolf finds the beat the shit out of it until it opens ha
22:41 tsmeow-afk h
22:44 furrywolf got it open by pounding the back of the slide with the beater hammer... which is now completely mushroomed, and will need to be ground.
22:44 Tom_itx sounds as though the hammer is of equal quality
22:44 katsmeow-afk how was it held closed? overtight take-up-slop-screw ?
22:46 furrywolf rust
22:46 furrywolf which impact is the best treatment for.
22:46 katsmeow-afk chinese rust, the worst
22:46 furrywolf Tom_itx: no, the hammer is fine. the back of the slide is mushroomed, so will no longer fit into the body.
22:46 Tom_itx o
22:46 katsmeow-afk that will bust the body driving it out then?
22:47 furrywolf probably. need to grind it.
22:49 rue_mohr !thislog
22:49 tobbor This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2012-06-13.html
22:49 rue_mohr http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/brain.htm
22:51 rue_mohr http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2011-08-07.html
22:53 rrywolf greases it up with lots of teflon grease, to make it really easy to break in some other
22:55 furrywolf that's how I broke my last one... first time I used it after I greased it with the fancy teflon grease. made the leadscrew turn sooooo smoothly...
22:57 furrywolf the slide is extremely soft steel... it's pathetic how much this mushroomed.
22:59 katsmeow-afk next time, put a 2x4 over the steel, and hit the 2x4 with the sledge
22:59 katsmeow-afk if the 2x4 is destroyed, use alminum plate
23:00 rrywolf doesn't have a grinder here, and filing isn't working, so gets out a carbide burr and the d
23:02 katsmeow-afk if you keep knocking the head off the 8lb sledge, drive a 1" rebar into it, mushroom the end, weld it on both sides of the head with 7018, drop a 1.25" pipe over the rebar, weld to head, pour pipe full of 2-part resin making sure no bubbles, locking rebar to the inside of the pipe
23:03 katsmeow-afk then weld grippy ridges so you can keep a grip on it when you get it moving
23:03 katsmeow-afk *that* one i have not managed to loosen yet
23:13 tsmeow-afk feels it's contraindicated to bolt the vise to the new work table, run a chain out the front door to the truck, connect chain to truck, and attempt to jerk the vise open by popping the clutch on the t
23:13 katsmeow-afk there could be side effects, such as showing up in rue's comic strips
23:29 furrywolf wow, I burned 32Ah @ 25V just listening to music and running a light.
23:29 furrywolf a friend has a splitting maul like that, except I think he has 1" galvanized water pipe for the handle.
23:40 furrywolf finally finished downloading that machining video...
23:40 katsmeow-afk the inch of solid rebar down the center really helped
23:40 rrywolf listens to some Sham 69 instead of the included m
23:41 katsmeow-afk 32Ah @ 25V = 800 wh
23:42 furrywolf that's a nice machine... I'm willing to bet it's quite expensive. heh.
23:42 furrywolf best machine I've seen in person was a regular 5-axis mill.
23:42 rue_bed |=> preparing to sleep 1% |
23:42 furrywolf and I only have a 4 axis!
23:43 rue_bed kat, dont forget you only get the top 20%
23:43 rue_bed not down to 0V
23:43 katsmeow-afk so?
23:44 rue_bed I think I read ya worng
23:44 katsmeow-afk me too
23:44 furrywolf well, 3.5 axis... the 4th is currently manual.
23:44 furrywolf I have the bracket that mounts the rotary axis at right angle to the bed, and the rotary table, and the chuck that bolts to the face of the rotary table, but no stepper on it.
23:46 rrywolf attempts to download the "hd720" version, since the "flv low" version is mostly square blo
23:46 rue_bed mine is parallel to the bed, along the x axis
23:46 rue_bed relays switch power from the y axis to the rotary
23:47 furrywolf well, I guess it depends on your definition of parallel... I have a rotary table, mounted so the chuck on its face extends a part over the X axis.
23:51 furrywolf being able to move only one axis or the other seems like it limits your options...
23:51 furrywolf can't interpolate a move on both at once
23:52 furrywolf although I guess those two are mostly redundant for most parts, unless you have an odd-shaped cutter and need an odd curve.